Author Topic: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)  (Read 244062 times)

Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #840 on: December 23, 2015, 06:36 AM »

I LOVED Hux's speech.  Was I one of the only ones seeing that parallel to the Nazi's in Munich?  The blame, the hate, the vitriolic speech, the insanity brewing...  Hux, as bad as Kylo may be, is worse I think.  The FO are fanatics (having now read that somewhere) hardliners.  It's like WW2 ending, but no repercussions for the Nazi's and its devoted membership. 


I loved the Nazi feel of the FO at Hux's speech. One of my favorite subjects in fiction and non-fiction is when people fight back against the Nazis (whether it's the military or even better individuals) and so this was perfect.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #841 on: December 23, 2015, 08:21 AM »

I LOVED Hux's speech.  Was I one of the only ones seeing that parallel to the Nazi's in Munich?  The blame, the hate, the vitriolic speech, the insanity brewing...  Hux, as bad as Kylo may be, is worse I think.  The FO are fanatics (having now read that somewhere) hardliners.  It's like WW2 ending, but no repercussions for the Nazi's and its devoted membership. 


I loved the Nazi feel of the FO at Hux's speech. One of my favorite subjects in fiction and non-fiction is when people fight back against the Nazis (whether it's the military or even better individuals) and so this was perfect.

That stylized Nazi imagery was pretty strong.  I recall mentioning that when we saw the shots of the First Order in the trailers.  And the tone of Hux's speech just put it over the top.  That stylization was there in the OT, but never quite this strong.  And compared to the Empire, the First Order seems fanatical.
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Offline Muftak

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #842 on: December 26, 2015, 01:11 AM »
Really liked the movie. Conflicting because as much as I grew up with the OT I came of age with the EU stuff. These new movies may be more like the pretend stories to me than the books were, at least until I see how this is all meant to come together (which is the one advantage this series could have over the abandoned EU--it may yet congeal into something cohesive in a way the patchwork process of the books never could.)

Enjoyed the humor so much...Threepio's intro as a great example. "You may not recognize me..." it's been so long moviegoing-wise since something he said was genuinely funny from his naiveté and self-involvement and not forced. My favorite moment in the whole movie was probably Finn's desperate thirst driving him over to that dog bowl, and only quitting because the dog chased him off!

Enjoyed the general theme that what we believe about ourselves is what we become. Finn's arc epitomized it--he began as a stormtrooper, lies about being in the resistance as a means to escape, and in the end becomes a resistance fighter so thoroughly he is willing to give his life for the cause. Han and Leia too, you have to figure at some point they were happy together in parental roles, but after the Jedi training tragedy they both reverted to their earlier roles of smuggler and freedom fighter rather than deal with their loss as parents. Luke too, he gives up on the obvious growth of becoming a Master to a new generation to settling for life as the last of the Jedi. And Kylo Ren...the catalyst of everyone else's arc...struggling to believe he can be a fully-realized Vader (Not even Vader was strong enough to "pause" a laserblast!) to the point that he will kill his father to prove the completeness of his fall, even though he hasn't actually made that fall completely yet. It all harkens back to my favorite prequel quote: "Your focus determines your reality." That's the real message of Star Wars, it seems to me.

When I try to plug Rey into the themes, we just don't have enough pieces of her story yet to see what exactly is going on. She resists the lightsaber's call, insists she needs to return to Jakku to find her family, and in the end is the only one who goes to Luke...for training as a Jedi, one must infer. What are the implications of that from a storytelling point of view? I mean, it says something that Leia didn't go to recruit him into helping the Resistance, but Rey went.  Always been more of a Luke fan than a Han fan, so I am very interested in what lies ahead.

Every moment with Chewbacca rang true to the character as we knew him. On the flip side, while I take issue with Luke turning his back on everyone, I can not accept that Artoo just shut off for 20 years. Even if Luke had some grand plan he was in on, Artoo would've been the first one to stop him from such a selfish move. Artoo was always the biggest hero and risk taker of the gang, him sitting in the corner on pause just doesn't ring true.

I liked that it was a Han Solo movie more than anything else as far as tying into the OT. Han dubbing Finn "Big Deal" was great and felt right. Han and Rey--again, we'll be able to look at that better as her mysterious origins are explored. I can see her being his daughter, his son's cousin (if she is Luke's daughter...since I never heard marriage mentioned, I am assuming the galaxy just isn't civil enough to have time for wedding ceremonies anymore) or some random stranger who impressed him with her raw talent and was offered a spot on the crew the same way Luke was in the original. And honestly, I have no preference at this point. I am happy with how it all played out, even if Han's death genuinely tore out my heart.

My wife really liked the movie but couldn't get past the fact that a stormtrooper's lifetime indoctrination ought to make Finn's immediate revulsion at his first deployment not believable. I like the idea that if he is force sensitive then that is what could have enabled this in him (and now that I've mentioned it to her so does she.)

And it blew my 6-year old son away, too. He was at turns laughing, excited, scared, and sad in the end. I was 6 when I saw ESB in the theater, and I could tell he left feeling exactly the same way I did back then. He had to know what happens next! Can't give it a more positive endorsement than that!

Offline Scockery

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #843 on: December 28, 2015, 04:00 PM »
I thought it a mediocre sequel in a  year full of mediocre-to-subpar sequels. Someone said, probably more than one someone, it felt like a movie made by committee to make a mass-appeal sequel. And it succeeded. Can't say it was bad as I was never bored, but the nicest thing I can think of was "hey, that was a movie".

The basic plot with new characters was as safe as it gets (pretty independent  heroine, hotshot pilot, cute upon cute droid,  comic relief, masked-for-no-reason emo villain, mysterious master villain, fascist lackey villain, non-entity female villain). The sequel aspects were bad decision after bad decision. 

Next movie, I expect the reveal that Finn and Rey are also Han's kids.  Maybe General Hux, too. He and Kylo have a brotherly rivalry.  :P

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #844 on: December 28, 2015, 07:02 PM »
I'm hearing a lot of the "masked for no reason", and all I wonder is...  Then why are so many other people masked?

It wasn't like Vader was the only guy wearing a mask in Star Wars.  :)

Perhaps Ren's mask helps him tactically like a Stormtrooper helmet?  Why not, ya know?

To me it's like complaining about people wearing capes in Star Wars...  There are quite a few who do, despite the utter impracticality of it.  Why not a mask then?  It could be just for the (at least I felt this way) implied intimidation purposes.  Dicking with people, keeping them from knowing what's underneath.  Who knows.
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Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #845 on: December 28, 2015, 07:57 PM »
A character in a sci fi/fantasy movie wearing something that looks cool, but doesn't necessarily seem like it serves a specific purpose? How ridiculous.

And instead of a heroine, I'd have gone the no hero at all route. Again, really a heroine? Shouldn't she have been cooking? There wasn't a single male hero either.

And there is no place for comic relief in a movie about galactic war.

But seriously I get that anyone that's watched A New Hope even once saw the parallels but I think you may have been a tad harsh
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 08:15 PM by GrandMoffNick »
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Offline Scockery

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #846 on: December 28, 2015, 10:35 PM »
A character in a sci fi/fantasy movie wearing something that looks cool, but doesn't necessarily seem like it serves a specific purpose? How ridiculous.
 
"masked no reason thing", okay, I wrote that before I read other people's comments pointing out how insecure Kylo Ren is. So he's hiding behind the mask as much it's for intimidating others. But I also said it was safe, and in expected and good for selling toys. (Ironic thing to say in this message board)


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And instead of a heroine, I'd have gone the no hero at all route. Again, really a heroine? Shouldn't she have been cooking? There wasn't a single male hero either.

There was a scene of her cooking.  ;)

It seemed a bit obligatory in the age of Hunger Games, etc., to make the apparently new  chosen Light Sider female. Rey was a decent character; Daisy Ridley did a good job. But I'll still call it a safe choice for covering demographics.

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And there is no place for comic relief in a movie about galactic war.

Welcome to 1999! (Who knows how much Jar Jar would've been in Episodes 2 and 3 if people had reacted differently?)

I'm mixed about Finn because if we believe the exposition, he should've been trained from youth to fight (later we find out he was in sanitation...what?), but then becomes comic relief because that's what the movie needed. Then he can remember he can fight at some point. Some would call this characterization/inner conflict, but I feel like two characters were shoehorned into one.

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But seriously I get that anyone that's watched A New Hope even once saw the parallels but I think you may have been a tad harsh

Maybe. How is calling it safe and mediocre "harsh"? 

If I could narrow down my general grievances they would be: As nice as it was to see the characters again, I didn't care for the directions they took the original trilogy characters (Ackbar should be ruling the galaxy).  I also dislike "the Republic" thing because it was just an underdeveloped mess, existing only to be destroyed, thus either leveling the playing field or making the good guys underdogs again (as audiences expect?).  Not even gonna speculate too much on Snoke...I figure he's really the size of Meebur Gascon, that why he went unnoticed for decades.

The prequels were picked apart by almost everyone. They made money. This is making tons of money.  Star Wars will keep going for a long time. What does my opinion matter? I barely even collect anything anymore. Just saying I wasn't too satisfied with the film, I wasn't that satisfied with Spectre or Age of Ultron, either. Getting old and cynical, maybe? Or just hoping for better creative directions?
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 10:44 PM by Scockery »

Offline Phrubruh

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #847 on: December 28, 2015, 11:12 PM »
Just saying I wasn't too satisfied with the film, I wasn't that satisfied with Spectre or Age of Ultron, either. Getting old and cynical, maybe? Or just hoping for better creative directions?

I can totally see where you are coming from. I think the movie setup some fun new things in the future. I've actually been looking forward to Rogue One more than TFA. It just seems completely new and different. I didn't like AoU and definitely not the Hunger Games series. I haven't seen Spectre but I think it is time for a new Bond there. I still need to see JW but kids make it hard to see new stuff.
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Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #848 on: December 29, 2015, 12:11 AM »
I was mostly just messing with you Scockery. Obviously not everyone was going to enjoy it as much as it seems most did. Which is why relatively speaking I do think harsh is a fair word. As Phruby said and just as ANH did way back when, I think TFA sets us up very nicely for some great reveals in the next two films.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #849 on: December 30, 2015, 08:43 AM »
Mashable posted THIS ARTICLE which goes over some story points covered in the novelization of THE FORCE AWAKENS but may have left viewers of the movie wondering.
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Offline Jabba the Slug

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #850 on: December 31, 2015, 04:24 AM »
Has anyone checked out the "Art of Star Wars: The Force Awakens" book yet? There's a really exciting page that shows a concept piece of Force Ghost Anakin whose face is half ROTS Ani and half Vader masked. The caption (by the artist) reads something along the lines of the artist having pitched Force Ghost Anakin to be in TFA, but that he's stuck somewhere between the light and dark sides. I think this might be a cool idea to appear in VIII, especially with a lot of reoccurring rumors that Hayden Christensen was supposedly training again for something Star Wars related.
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Offline Phrubruh

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #851 on: December 31, 2015, 04:18 PM »
Just got back from seeing TFA a second time. I loved it as much as the first time. My nine year old son really enjoyed it but was pretty scared when Han died. His favorite character is BB8. I found a shot of Constable Zuvio. He gets killed by the Knights of Ren during Rey's force vision. I don't know if that is the future or the past since everything she saw was kind of mixed up. Yoda's voice is there and I think Obiwan's but I can't make out either one. Listening to the dialog I do not believe Rey is a Skywalker or a Solo. She might have something to do with Max Von Sydow's character.

We went to the 9:40am show and had the entire theater to ourselves.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #852 on: December 31, 2015, 04:33 PM »
There's been a good deal of speculation about Rey's family.  Some people think that she's a Skywalker, and possibly Luke's daughter.  And other people think that she's not a Skywalker at all, but possibly the granddaughter of Obi-Wan Kenobi.  Also worth noting?  In Rey's Force vision, two of the voices she hears are dialogue from Obi-Wan Kenobi.  Some of it was cut together from Alec Guiness's dialogue in A NEW HOPE, and Ewan McGregor voiced the same line as well for that part of the film. 

If you go back to the CLONE WARS animated series, Obi-Wan did have a romantic link to Dutchess Satine of Mandalore.  Could that relationship have yielded a child?  Satine died in the series, but had some family members like Bo-Katan who could have fostered that child.  Or is it possible that Obi-Wan had some sort of relationship during his time on Tatooine?  I think it's all interesting fodder for discussion, because why else would the voice of Obi-Wan Kenobi speak to Rey through the Force?

The one big concern I have with this theory is that the new trilogy seems so prepared to divorce itself from the EU in order to open up the story possibilities.  Will all of those CLONE WARS shows be considered canon, and something that could impact the movies?  As annoying as the whole "What's canon?  What's not canon?" issue has become, I think this is one area where it bears some examination.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 04:46 PM by Nicklab »
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Offline Phrubruh

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #853 on: December 31, 2015, 05:39 PM »
She might be a grandchild of Obiwan but definitely not his child from the clone wars.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #854 on: December 31, 2015, 06:08 PM »
She might be a grandchild of Obiwan but definitely not his child from the clone wars.

I definitely should have made that more clear, although I did say And other people think that she's not a Skywalker at all, but possibly the granddaughter of Obi-Wan Kenobi

I think if Rey is related to Obi-Wan, that she is his grandchild.  And one of her parents could potentially have been the offspring of Obi-Wan and Satine.  Again, if this is something that they're exploring as a possibility I would be surprised since there's been a very deliberate effort in this new era to have the films stand on their own.  But if this is the case, I'm wondering if there might be a Force sensitive parent of Rey's who might work their way into the mix.
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