Author Topic: NHL Offseason 2013  (Read 1212 times)

Online Rob

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2013, 09:10 PM »
Restructuring a deal under the new cap would mean the player would make less money.  Is that legal?  When you sign a contract aren't you legally, never mind the sub-rules imposed by the NHL itself, obligated to meet the expectations of that contract?  Both the player and the organization? 

Well, not in the NFL.  If a player would rather take less to stay instead of being cut, they're always free to re-negotiate if both parties want to. 

If the player stops playing before the terms of the contract are up (i.e. retires) then he is or is not paid, depending on how the contract is worded, but the team is still charged an amount towards the cap.  The league did this to prevent teams from creating all sorts of stupid ass backloaded contracts which simply circumvent the salary cap.  Were this not in place, teams like Philadelphia (no brains) or Toronto (bottomless pockets) could simply backload all the contracts they want and be a gazillion miles over the cap.  How would that be fair to the other teams in the league that can't afford to do that?  It's not and realistically you'd do immense damage to the league.  I think you could expect the league to contract to about ten teams or less if you let them go freewheeling for salaries that are backloaded, maybe more. 

In the NFL teams back-load deals all the time.  Eventually they pay the price.  Maybe they can load up for a year or two, but they they're quickly forced to cut players - and players won't take backloaded deals without guaranteed money in signing bonuses that are still assigned to the relevant year's salary cap if a player is cut or retires.  Clearly it's different in the NHL, but it's easy to prevent teams from being able to circumvent the cap for long. 

In any event, thanks for the explanation, I'm not familiar with how the CBA and cap work in hockey like I am with football.

Still bummed to see Vinny headed elsewhere.  I don't think it's really a given that he'll be back... if someone throws a few years at him for more money than he thinks he'd get taking a short deal...
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 09:44 PM by Rob »

Online Jeff

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2013, 10:51 PM »
All reports here r pens offering bout 7 n Letang countering 7.5 but wants no move which I can't see happening and seems to be bigger sticking point than money. :/

Does Letang have a brother in the NHL he wants to go play with instead, a la Staal last year?  :P
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Offline Morgbug

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2013, 11:59 PM »
Still bummed to see Vinny headed elsewhere.  I don't think it's really a given that he'll be back... if someone throws a few years at him for more money than he thinks he'd get taking a short deal...

Don't have a direct link for you, but Lecavalier said directly that he would be back.  He'll only go for a year because he has to under league rules, but his family (wife/kids) are settled in the Tampa Bay area and that's where he'll stay.  You could of course be right though. 

The NFL is a dramatically different beast than the NHL.  The football revenues from television alone dwarf the entire NHL, never mind merchandise, gate, etc. 

And you accurately point out the NFL player can opt to restructure the salary as opposed to being cut.  In the NHL you cannot outright cut a player and then not pay him as you can in the NFL*.  All salaries are guaranteed, unless there are performance bonuses but I believe those are not allowed in the NHL, at least not formally as a part of the structure of the salary as it is counted towards the salary cap.  Any signing bonuses, plus salaries over the length of the contract, are added together and divided by the length of the contract to give you the "cap hit" against the salary cap.  So front loading, back loading, all count against a team's cap to try and provide some degree of parity, lest the Toronto Maple Leafs become perennial cup winners simply because they have nearly unlimited revenues.  I daresay it would be worse than the Yankees/Red Sox by a substantial margin.

The * in there is what Lecavalier in TB, Bryzgalov in Philly and others have experienced is a compliance buy out that is allowed under the new CBA of the NHL to get rid of those idiotic deals.  Teams are only allowed two over the length of the CBA so Philly for example has used both of theirs.  Players in a sense do get hosed, as they are only paid 2/3 of the total salary owed to them on the contract.  But they are allowed to immediately sign another deal with any other team.  So as in the case of Lecavalier he's likely ending up ahead of the game.  But even if they never play again in North America, a guy like Bryzgalov ends up with $20+ million in his pocket, immediately, and then trundles off to the KHL to play for $5 million tax free.   :o  Such hardship they endure if they are a compliance buyout.  It's nothing like the NFL where you're an aging running back that gets cut and has no more money coming in. 

It may be easy to prevent teams from circumventing the cap in the NFL, I think it's a far better run organization and has the ability to buoy up teams where necessary from alternate sources of revenue. The NHL simply can't do that and there are general managers/owners that are clearly a little nuts and think buying a championship will work, where in the NHL it never really has (Messier's cup in NYC?).  There is also massive disparity that isn't offset by television broadcasting right.  Phoenix Coyotes?  New York Islanders?  Or perhaps Winnipeg/Quebec City/Hartford circa 1995?

I still think the Coyotes go to Seattle because QC and Toronto 2.0 will be more willing to pony up 250+ mil for the expansion fees than Seattle.  :P

Then, in a few years when you're ready for expansion, you'll see...
- Colorado heads West to the Pacific group
- Toronto 2.0 and one of DET/TB get dropped into central division
- QC gets dropped into Division C to take the place of DET/TB

That way, with Toronto 2 in the West, they can dream of an all Toronto Cup final (or the much less likely all FL cup final with TB in the west and FLA in the east :P)

Likely the case with Seattle, we'll find out soon enough I think. As for the expansion, I think you're likely correct for the most part.  I think TB maybe goes west, but I don't think Toronto 2.0 goes west, the big market teams they want to see in that new facility will be on the east coast, and given what they'll likely pay for that expansions team ($0.5B), they'll get what they want.  I think the league sits unbalanced and Detroit remains in the east though I'd love to see them come back west. 

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Online P-Siddy

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2013, 10:35 AM »
We're staying in the hotel where most of the scouts are.  Kind of cool.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2013, 09:57 PM »
Does Letang have a brother in the NHL he wants to go play with instead, a la Staal last year?  :P


Haha not that I know of.  Word is ur wild r in the running as are leafs and Preds.  That's whats going around here anyway.  I figure hell go at the draft.  My iPhone posting here looks like ****.  Sorry. :(
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Offline I Am Sith

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2013, 11:13 PM »
Well, so far not as big a fire sale as it was after 2010, but the Hawks have started to off-load players.  Bolland and Frolik were traded for draft picks.  Bolland didn't really do much for them this year (other than the Cup winner) due to injury, but he was definitely a core guy that will be missed.  Always played with an edge and had a knack for getting under opposing players' skin.  Frolik will definitely be missed on the PK.  He and Kreuger were two of the reasons for their great percentage throughout the year.

On a good note, they were able to re-sign Bickell to a 4-year deal.  Glad to see that both sides were able to compromise to keep him in Chicago.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #21 on: July 1, 2013, 12:24 PM »
Rumors are insane at this point...  I think every team is interested in Letang and the Pens are insanely going to try to give him what he wants except the no-trade.  Blah.  It puts them and Dupuis too far apart, and Cooke's not looking good either.  I felt both were more important than Letang was individually.  I'm not happy.

I love Letang for what he brings but I thought he had a dismal defensive playoff, and he doesn't seem to be outgrowing those habits.  He's young and can improve, but like Fleury, how long do you let that go?  I dunno.  They don't have winger depth to bring up IMO and replace Dupuis and Cooke, and I read they think Jokinen can replace one of them...  How?  He plays like neither, and is a center.  I'm not a fan of moving guys out of their positions to fill voids you create yourself.
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Offline JesseVader08

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #22 on: July 2, 2013, 11:02 PM »
Woah, Lecavalier is going to Philly for 5 years?  I sure didn't see that coming.  Like others have said, it's weird to see him leaving Tampa.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #23 on: July 2, 2013, 11:32 PM »
Letang...  butload of money, sticking with Pens, blah blah blah.

No clue now on Dupuis or Cooke (or Adams for that matter, who's also underrated).  Sucks because I'd say at best one of them is all we could keep.  Duper is who they're focused on now.  Cooke, god I'd hate seeing him go.  Dude practically WAS our PK.  Adams was a big PK guy too, and had a solid playoff with Cooke.  :(  I hate this time of year.

Spoke very much too soon on Dupuis...  Signed him as I typed that I think.

Now, Cooke, please?

TK for the 2nd rounder to move up in the draft was a stroke of genius, by the way.  The guy was a dismal performer in the regular season, turned it on some in the playoffs and finally played like he gave a ****, but too little too late.  I was ecstatic with the move since we were SOL on picks early on after picking up Iggy.  :-\
« Last Edit: July 3, 2013, 03:26 AM by Jesse James »
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Online Jeff

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #24 on: July 6, 2013, 03:24 PM »
Here's hoping we can sign our guys for some bargain deals and pick up some of the buy-out castoffs at reasonable dollar amounts.  And maybe a Clutterbuck.   :P

Well, you didn't get a Clutterbuck but you did end up with one slightly used former Shark/Wild.  Hope you get more consistency out of him than we did.  Enjoy 3-4 goals in four games and then nothing for another 12-15.  :P

Cooke, god I'd hate seeing him go.  Dude practically WAS our PK... 
...Now, Cooke, please?

:-X  Sorry Jesse.  (not really).

So far we're:
- minus Bouchard, Cullen, Clutterbuck, Setoguchi, and Gilbert
- plus Neiderreiter, Cooke, and Ballard

Not exactly setting the world on fire, but we didn't really have the cap room to do much more.  Cooke will be an upgrade over Clutter in a couple nice ways (PK, goals).  Ballard is a cheaper Gilbert (3rd d).  Bouchard will be missed but hasn't been relevant in a couple years.  We'll miss Cullen I think most of all.  We'll need a young guy (Coyle/Granlund) to step into that 2nd line center role but neither can replace his veteran voice.
« Last Edit: July 6, 2013, 03:25 PM by Jeff »
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Offline Scott

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #25 on: July 6, 2013, 10:02 PM »
Signing Backstrom was the key to the off-season as they would have been screwed without him

Online Rob

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #26 on: July 6, 2013, 10:22 PM »
Don't have a direct link for you, but Lecavalier said directly that he would be back.  He'll only go for a year because he has to under league rules, but his family (wife/kids) are settled in the Tampa Bay area and that's where he'll stay.  You could of course be right though. 

Easy come, easy go...  Maybe Philly will decide to cut him 20% of the way into his shiny new deal.  Of all the teams to go to... the city Tampa fans generally despise the most.  Ouch.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #27 on: July 6, 2013, 10:59 PM »
Cooke hurts but to see the Pens sign Scuderi Dupuis, Adams, extend Letang, move up in the draft to 2nd round for Kennedy who wasn't even being tendered an offer...  I can't bitch.  Cooke is an awesome guy tho and does all kinda charity work.  He gets a horrible rap from other teams.  Slightly earned but he also has turned his game totally and he will basically single handedly run your pk.  He was one of my favorites.

He told local media he's stayin in Pitt.  His family wants to and he said the fans here supported him and treated him good when others called for his head on a pike.  I loved the guy and he's gonna be missed.

Iginla we hardly knew ya.  Some are mad they didn't really even try (not sure how they could have)...  Not me.  Nice guy.  Getting older though and I'm a little shocked he went to Boston under last seasons circumstances. 
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Offline Morgbug

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #28 on: July 8, 2013, 10:29 PM »
Don't have a direct link for you, but Lecavalier said directly that he would be back.  He'll only go for a year because he has to under league rules, but his family (wife/kids) are settled in the Tampa Bay area and that's where he'll stay.  You could of course be right though. 

Easy come, easy go...  Maybe Philly will decide to cut him 20% of the way into his shiny new deal.  Of all the teams to go to... the city Tampa fans generally despise the most.  Ouch.

Wish I could find that quote.  Clearly indications are that Lecavalier talks one thing, does another.  The Philly contract surprised me in the sense that I really was expecting a single year deal.  $4.5 million for 5 years with a no movement clause. 

Hmm.  Bought out for $23+ million and another $22.5 for the next five years.  Yep, $45.5 million is pretty darn hard to take what with uprooting the kids and moving to Philly.  Crocodile tears. 


Well, you didn't get a Clutterbuck but you did end up with one slightly used former Shark/Wild.  Hope you get more consistency out of him than we did.  Enjoy 3-4 goals in four games and then nothing for another 12-15.  :P


Yeah, can I get a do-over on that one?  Not so thrilled with free agency this year, that's for sure.  We're going to have a very hard time competing for the next couple of years.  Setoguchi is fine as a player but we're still lacking a true 2nd line center so even if he plays above expectations with Kane, who's the center?  Jokinen?  Not effin likely.  I might be able to skate faster than him if he's like he was last year. 

Then losing Burmistrov to the KHL?  Stoopid Russian.  Ah well, we hold his NHL rights for another six years.  Good thing we signed Frolik. 
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Online Jeff

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Re: NHL Offseason 2013
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2013, 04:37 PM »
Love Kovalchuk walking out on the last 12yrs/$77mil of his contract for a reported 5yrs/$50mil back hom in Russia.

Between Burmistrov, Kuznetsov, and Kovalchuk, Russians are going to take a beating again this summer from all those hockey guys looking for summer filler stories.  I hope Jesse is ready for all the "will Malkin retire and bolt for the KHL now too" stories.   ::)

Plus I wonder if the Devils will find a loophole that lets them get their #1 pick back since Kovalchuk only stayed three years... otherwise, he cost them $23mil, a #1 pick, and $250k against the cap until 2025 for just 3 years of service. :P
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 04:48 PM by Jeff »
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