Author Topic: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies  (Read 87043 times)

Offline Diddly

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #225 on: March 26, 2016, 04:01 AM »
First off there is no post credits scene

I really wanted to like this movie, I really did, but there is just so much bad in this movie that outweighs the good. It felt like they had 2 hours to write the script before they had to turn it in and had come up with 800 ideas during a brainstorming session involving marijuana and just decided to go with everything. The pacing and editing were all over the place, and there was just way too much going on. Also, the ENTIRE MOVIE was spoiled by the second trailer. Imagine how badass the Wonder Woman debut would have been had we not known it was coming? Or the Luthor one-liners and general craziness, which wasn't even really explained anyway? Ugh, whatever company was in charge of marketing this movie deserves to go out of business. It's a textbook case to other studios of how to NOT put everything in the trailer and leave some elements of surprise.

Some random thoughts (spoilers apply):

- LOVED Affleck as Batman. Someone involved in this movie obviously played the Arkham video games because the Batman fight scenes were straight out of them. Alfred was great too. Seriously, I'd watch a Batman movie with those two. In fact, I really did enjoy the whole cast
- The one thing I disliked about Batman, why was he killing and using guns?
- The soundtrack was FANTASTIC, probably the best part of the movie
- They did a horrible job with the "Martha" thing. I get that compassion for his mother is what made Batman realize that Superman is human, but the way it played out sounded like "Our moms have the same name, let's go play!"
- What was with the random spread eagle shot of Wonder Woman on her back after spending the whole movie trying not to sexualize her?
- Zack Snyder REALLY wanted us to see Amy Adam's boobs
- The cameos would have made a perfect post credits scene... Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg have less screen time combined than Luke in TFA. And then there's the photo of Chris Pine imitating Captain America. Weird.

I dunno... I need to sleep on it, and I might need to see it again anyway since there was a doofus couple next to me laughing and commentating on everything that happened
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Offline BillCable

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #226 on: March 26, 2016, 08:50 AM »
Looks like you're not alone in your dissatisfaction.  BvS came in with a "B" CinemaScore.  That puts it a notch below Sacha Baron Cohen's The Brothers Grimsby and on par with Dirty Grandpa and The Divergent Series: Allegiant.
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Offline JediJman

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #227 on: March 26, 2016, 11:19 AM »
I believe Batman is supposed to be more like Miller's dark Knight.  If he isn't using guns and beating the tar out of criminals, Superman wouldn't have a beef with him.  You can't have it both ways.  People expecting to see the Avengers with DC heroes will be very disappointed.  People going to see a fun action flick without predisposed notions of critics bad reviews should have a fun time.
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Offline Qui-Gon Jim

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #228 on: March 26, 2016, 11:45 PM »
Not bad, not good. I liked WW and Doomsday. Hate, HATE Lois Lane. Can we put her in a plane with Pepper Potts and send it back and forth over the Bermuda Triangle until it disappears?

This was meh, and Warner spent a lot of money to get "meh" in return.

I'll bet this has a big drop next week. In a month, we'll be talking about Warner's DC plans scaling back.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2016, 08:23 AM by Qui-Gon Jim »

Offline Darby

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #229 on: March 27, 2016, 12:48 AM »
The drop off will be everything. The reviews suggest a MASSIVE drop off once everyone's seen it. Could be wrong as there does seem to be a very vocal group that loves this movie and maybe it has legs but the reality is for a film that is $400 million + in the production and marketing it will have to do a billion worldwide to break even given the split on theater takes, so... a nosedive going into a 2nd weekend will be an issue. That's particularly pressing since apparently the JL movie starts filming in a couple weeks. Anyways, all of this is academic as there will be a JL movie and maybe this movie keeps on going and going, but...

SPOILERS

My own quick take is I loved Ben Affleck, LOVED Wonder Woman, and pretty much hated everything else. Has absolutely no idea what movie it wants to be and spends a lot of time developing the groundwork for the battle between the heroes which it then discards for Superman to be blackmailed into fighting Batman. They never confront each other over their true differences, never connect over their shared values before the end, beyond a fairly touching moment where the film exploits one of the the greatest bits of nerd trivia in comics. And before Supes departs this mortal coil because Henry Cavil has the emotional register of a corpse anyways. The film was alternately glib, self serious, audacious, conservative, boring and exciting. Mostly boring.

Definitely some good ideas in there and flawed execution.

Offline evenflow

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #230 on: March 28, 2016, 12:13 AM »
Went to see it Friday and really disliked it. I felt ridiculously long yet somehow rushed at the same time.

I hated the portrayal of Lex. Nothing redeeming about it for me.

And without revealing spoilers, the whole end scene between Batman and Superman was so abrupt and weak.
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Offline Scott

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #231 on: March 29, 2016, 11:24 AM »
Saw it yesterday, generally liked it, generally disliked plot holes.  I loved the Justice League/Super Friends cartoons of yore and while I like them trying the build up to a Darkseid smackdown they just don't seem to be going at it the right way.  I don't like how Batman was basically ready to kill him and just conveniently didn't...I didn't like the Lois crap at the end.  Did like them tying in some of the Comic stuff from the Doomsday/Superman arc.

Someone said Legion of Doom...hell just give us that without all of the backstory.  Which is what i thought as they are presenting AGAIN the same damn Bruce Wayne's family gets killed outside the theater scene.   As kids we didn't need to know backstory.  As adults we don't need to know backstory nor do kids...just jump into a legendary throwdown between Super Heroes and Villains who live in a giant swamp Darth Vader helmet.

I also cannot believe that DC and Marvel are basically following the exact same arc (Civil War leading into a Thanos/Darkseid throwdown)   Marvel should make a Squadron Supreme movie just to **** with them, especially as Hyperion has become a little more Marvel mainstream.

Offline Sprry75

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #232 on: March 31, 2016, 12:25 PM »
I read all of the lousy reviews so I had pretty low expectations, but I really liked it. Way better than Man of Steel. Affleck was the bomb, yo. It was a pretty good comic book adaptation even if it wasn't a great movie.
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Offline 77Skywalker

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #233 on: April 5, 2016, 11:53 AM »
Great action

Jesse Eisenberg was twisted as Lex Luthor

One moment in the film that really got lots of applause when I saw the movie was (SPOILER) when Gal Gadot made her entrance as Wonder Woman.

Offline Nicklab

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #234 on: April 8, 2016, 12:29 PM »
I saw this during the week and I've been digesting it.  Was this movie good?  Yes.  Was it great?  I'm not prepared to go quite that far.

I liked how Bruce Wayne/Batman's angle of the story was portrayed.  Personally, I'm still a little disappointed that they were unable to continue with the Christian Bale/Nolan parternership, but that's done.  All of that being said, I think that Affleck did a good job of portraying the character.  This iteration of Batman has clearly been at this for a long time.  He's suffered personally and has shut himself down to a degree because of the mounting personal toll.  And I think it's also led him to take an attitude of "fight for your life" where he has made the moral compromise that using deadly force can be justified in particular circumstances.  Batman's fighting style seemed updated and still very brutal.  Although there were points where he seemed a little too strong.

The setup for Batman's story arc seemed to parallel the way people reacted to the September 11th attacks.  There was a paradigm shift following a mass tragedy.   But in Bruce Wayne/Batman's mind, the threat was an alien who was so powerful that he could lay waste to cities.  And when he ran into that ash cloud to rescue people from Wayne Financial?  You could not help but see the parallels drawn by the falling of the World Trade Center in 2001.  Personally, that's something that doesn't sit well with me since I saw that ash cloud first hand on the day of that attack.  But it was nonetheless a powerful storytelling device.

As for Superman's end of the story?  The personal conflict is there, too.  Although he's presented with the notion of whether he should be this savior for humanity.  It's interesting to see that the relationship between him and Lois Lane has been accelerated.  And I think it was because of that relationship that Lex Luthor was able to figure out who Superman was, and how to attack the vulnerable points in his life like his girlfriend and mother.  Let's face it, too.  A different hairstyle and glasses are not going to cut it in maintaining a secret identity.  This is 2016, and facial recognition software would be able to tell anyone with a decent photo of Superman just who he really is.  I don't know that I would call that a "plot hole" (a term that I've come to find really irksome from the current generation of armchair film critics) as much as a dated aspect of the design of the Superman character.

Luthor was thoroughly douchey, although I suspect that was the intent.  He recognized the world changing aspect of having this Kryptonian tech on Earth and sought to gain control of it for his own ends.  Hence the acquisition of the Kryptonite, and the move to experiment on Zod's body and get access to the scout ship.  As for the creation of Doomsday?  I have to plead some ignorance since I've never really been a DC guy.  Doomsday seemed like a major global threat.  This certainly provided the right moment for Superman to team up with Batman and Wonder Woman.  And Luthor's files on the other "meta humans" seemed like an interesting way to introduce a range of characters without a full slate of origin stories.

And then there were the critics and the reviews.  I think that a lot of them set out to compare this movie to something else, whether it was the Nolan Batman trilogy or the Marvel Cinematic Universe, or previous Superman projects, or whatever else.  Was that fair to THIS project?  Probably not.  But that's the studio's cross to bear when they seem so intent to regularly reboot these properties because they don't have a solid grasp on creating a big picture universe that can involve these characters who regularly cross over into one another's storylines.

Then there are the genre film fans.  And I think there are some that have clearly chosen sides in the decades old DC vs Marvel school of thought.  As far as movies go, Marvel has had the more solid footing in terms of crafting a movie & TV universe that has tied things together in a somewhat cohesive fashion.  And they've been pretty successful, despite a number of early missteps.  I think the MCU combined with fans who aggressively use social media made for a climate where it was going to be tough for a DC cinematic universe launch to be successful.  At least tougher than when the first Iron Man film came out.  Launching a comic movie universe when there's no competition is one thing.  Launching a second movie universe when one has been in existance for close to 10 years (with a number of films that have further developed those characters) makes for an uphill battle for the new venture.  Looking at "Dawn of Justice" on it's own, I think it's okay.  But when the comparisons with the MCU start coming in?  It's going to get heated.  And I really think that's been one of the root causes for the hostility towards this project.
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Offline BillCable

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #235 on: April 8, 2016, 02:45 PM »
I don't think it's bias.  I think it's because the movie is badly written and badly edited.  Man of Steel was badly written.  Not only was it untrue to the character (admittedly subjective), it had glaring logic gaps (completely objective).  And from the reviews I read of BvS, that movie was even worse in that regard.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #236 on: April 8, 2016, 04:16 PM »
So... you didn't see it, but still feel comfortable making the statement that it was badly written and badly edited?  Okay.

I will agree with the reviewers on one point:  the movie took a good goddamned long time to get moving anywhere because of the mantra of "ORIGIN.  REPEAT.  REINFORCE".   And there was a lot of groundwork that was getting laid out in advance of the climax of the film.  A lot of the reviews I read expressed confusion over how the story was proceeding.  Personally, I didn't get that impression.  I also got the sense from a number of reviewers that they were explicitly comparing this project to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Almost every review has avoided the big point in the movie.  That being the martyrdom aspect.  Superman has made himself a target following his showdown with Zod and the other Kryptonians that laid waste to much of Metropolis, killing thousands.  He was horrified by the fact that he had to kill Zod in order to end that threat.  He has responded by helping those in need around the world, including his new girlfriend.  He went before the U.S. Senate to answer for his actions, only to be the target of an attack disguised as a suicide bombing.  And eventually Superman sacrificed himself to end the Doomsday threat.  I certainly found there to be some significant character development for a character who is struggling to come to grips with his all powerful nature, and his intentions to do good.

I thought the nightmare sequence with the parademons and the Superman cult was interesting.  And it came across to me like a cross between Batman's fears of a world dominated by Superman combined with the threat that his presence will draw to the planet.
« Last Edit: April 8, 2016, 04:26 PM by Nicklab »
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Offline BillCable

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #237 on: April 9, 2016, 10:05 PM »
So... you didn't see it, but still feel comfortable making the statement that it was badly written and badly edited?  Okay.

Nope - I was pretty clear in my message.  MoS was badly written based on my personal experience.  And the vast majority of critics said BvS was badly written and edited.  I made no personal determination about BvS.  But thanks for being a dick about it.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #238 on: April 10, 2016, 07:13 AM »
It's not meant to be dickish.  I get the sense that a lot of critics went into BvS with a lot of preconceived notions.  Whether it was about the director, or the actors, or the release date being pushed back from last summer to this spring.  If you want to judge the film?  At least do it the service of seeing it, unless of course you have a solid track record of trusting the way some specific film critics review movies.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 07:17 AM by Nicklab »
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Offline BillCable

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Re: Batman v Superman / Justice League / DC Movies
« Reply #239 on: April 10, 2016, 09:15 AM »
In many of the reviews I read, the reviewers earnestly expressed the hope that they'd love the film.  Some of these guys are huge comic book geeks.  I myself wished it was a great film.  So I don't buy the story that critics went in with an eye towards trashing the film.  I think that's something DC fanboys are trying to push as an excuse - that their good film was sabotaged by dishonest reviews.  29% on Rotten Tomatoes contradicts that.
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