Author Topic: Disney to Purge Select EU  (Read 1468 times)

Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #75 on: April 30, 2014, 11:42 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, Jesse, but I thought I read that Lucas wrote the plot/story for this new prequel... or at least had the idea.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #76 on: May 1, 2014, 12:18 AM »
I keep seeing conflicting things on that...  Wookieepedia has him basically stating no, and he never wrote anything for it, it's about Vader, etc...  Like the Prequals (and the confusion surrounding how much of those he says he knew at the time the OT was made compared to what he says now), this is murky and his story sort of changes...  Here's a couple quotes:

Quote
    Interviewer: "Do you think you'd have other people continue the Star Wars saga past Episode VI or turn some of the other material into films?"

    Lucas: "But there's no story past Episode VI, there's just no story. It's a certain story about Anakin Skywalker and once Anakin Skywalker dies, that's kind of the end of the story. There is no story about Luke Skywalker, I mean apart from the books. But there's three worlds: There's my world that I made up, there's the licensing world that's the books, the comics, all that kind of stuff, the games, which is their world, and then there's the fans' world, which is also very rich in imagination, but they don't always mesh. All I'm in charge of is my world. I can't be in charge of those other people's world, because I can't keep up with it."

&

Quote
    TOTAL FILM: "The Star Wars universe has expanded far beyond the movies. How much leeway do the game makers and novel writers have?"
    LUCAS: "They have their own kind of world. There's three pillars of Star Wars. I'll probably get in trouble for this but it's OK! There's three pillars: the father, the son and the holy ghost. I'm the father, Howard Roffman [president of Lucas Licensing] is the son and the holy ghost is the fans, this kind of ethereal world of people coming up with all kinds of different ideas and histories. Now these three different pillars don't always match, but the movies and TV shows are all under my control and they are consistent within themselves. Howard tries to be consistent but sometimes he goes off on tangents and it's hard to hold him back. He once said to me that there are two Star Trek universes: there's the TV show and then there's all the spin-offs. He said that these were completely different and didn't have anything to do with each other. So I said, "OK, go ahead." In the early days I told them that they couldn't do anything about how Darth Vader was born, for obvious reasons, but otherwise I pretty much let them do whatever they wanted. They created this whole amazing universe that goes on for millions of years!"
    TOTAL FILM: "Are you happy for new Star Wars tales to be told after you're gone?"
    LUCAS: "I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything. And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."

I'll say this...  I like Leeland Chee because he's an interactive guy with the fans, and passionate, but Lucas as a boss made his job nigh on impossible.  Howard Roffman as well, though he was seemingly less involved in a direct way with the fans.

Now, for me, this was never that big an issue.  But for LFL, it was...  It was like they HAD to try to keep things cohesive and retcon everything for the fans, or select groups would go batshit over something.

I admit too, I dislike when they step over existing EU tidbits, but mine usually aren't plotpoints.  They're things like, "Why did ROTS use AT-RT's, which were **** from a  military perspective, when the AT-PT was established in EU even as a vehicle from the Clone Wars era, and was miles superior?"

Well the reason there is because the AT-PT's less visually interesting obviously, but it made more sense.  Damn my logic.  But yeah that's kinda the stuff I sit and bum about wishing we'd seen...  Maybe we will in Rebels?  I can dream.

BUT, Lucas says in the last quote above that he doesn't even more features, much less 7-9!  He directly addresses he has no story for 7-9 either, and that he'd never have made it anything like any of the EU he'd apparently heard about but never read (according to himself). 

Is he lying?  Maybe, I dunno.  I don't think 1-3 were fleshed in 83 like he claims they were, frankly.  I think he maybe had a ballpark idea, but not what we ultimately see.  Maybe he had a ballpark idea on 7-9, but he's pretty vehement there that this is Vader's story, not Vader's kid's story.

If Lucas is the all-powerful and people are rigid about that stuff too, it's funny that that quote basically wipes out Mara Jade all together too.  Good times.

Canon is a word someone is trying to force on you...  Be yourself and enjoy Star Wars however you want.  You'll feel better.  Acknowledge only the movies.  Or only the original movies.  Or only the PT.  Or everything.  Or just one movie.  Whatever. 

In my dipshitty Star Wars world, the Empire has the "Aliens" from the Alien films captive and are experimenting.  Kyle Katarn was sent to their base where the presumed biological warfare experiment was taking place to get information on it.  Xenomorphs escape.  Fun ensues.  The Empire poops itself to clean up the "spill", and Katarn hauls ass from the planet (a desolate rock of a moon) not really knowing what he saw, just knowing he wished he hadn't!

Why do I crowbar that into my SW universe?  Because it fits because I want it to, and I dig Kyle Katarn, and once I played a custom level to Jedi Knight that was exactly that storyline, and it was one of the greatest Star Wars games I ever played in my life, made by a fan who didn't care if you told him, "but it's not canon!", since he did it just for fun and to make people smile.
« Last Edit: May 1, 2014, 03:31 PM by Jesse James »
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Offline EdSolo

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #77 on: May 1, 2014, 06:58 AM »
Lucas has been all over the map with how many movies there were to be.  He has stated every thing from one, three, six, nine and twelve.  I think there was something out there that he did storyboards or outlines for the sequels prior to the Disney sale.  Also, I believe a rumor from the nine/twelve days was that ROTJ would have occurred during the Episode VII to IX era, that the OT would have been expanded and we wouldn't have seen the Emperor until the second trilogy.

Offline Nicklab

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #78 on: May 1, 2014, 09:27 AM »
Lucas very likely came up with the outlines for the Sequel Trilogy in an effort to sell Lucasfilm / Star Wars.  Without something like that to sweeten the deal, I can't see why Disney would have bought the company.  The big money for them would have been with new movies.

I think the status of some stories in the EU will become more clear as we move forward.  Clearly, the REBELS series is going shape things as is the production of the Sequel Trilogy and the spinoff movies.  Those productions are going to be the signposts that determine what's valid or "canon".  I think the Star Wars Story Group is going to have to remain somewhat mum about things in an effort to keep from spoiling the new movies and tv projects.
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Offline Angry Ewok

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #79 on: May 2, 2014, 01:39 PM »
So it goes. I loved the Thrawn stuff and jumped right in when the post ROTJ stuff started. Then just as quickly . . . realized I would have to pick and choose what stories I followed.

That is what most of us have done for years, not only with the expanded universe, but with the stupid **** in the special editions and the prequels. Midichlorians is crap, Greedo never shot, Stormtroopers aren't clones, Anakin's ghost wasn't Sith Anakin because old Ben's ghost wasn't General Kenobi and Yoda's ghost wasn't that ******* ugly pignosed green puppet from Phantom Menace.

Disney can do whatever it wants to. I'll always accept the Caravan of Courage, Shadows of the Empire, Heir to the Empire, the Rogue Squadron books, and select stories from the Tales books and Empire comics that were awesome.
« Last Edit: May 2, 2014, 01:45 PM by Angry Ewok »

Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #80 on: May 6, 2014, 04:06 PM »
There was an article in the Mpls/St Paul Star Tribune newspaper (yes they still exist) on Sunday from a Washington Post columnist so other newspapers, etc. too I'm sure entitled "Disney's biggest Star Wars mistake".  Numerous points about the EU I thought were very good. Some of my favorite quotes:

"If these stories sound shaggy and uneven and strange, it is because they are. But the EU could be the best possible result when big corporations get excited about monetizing fan enthusiasm. It was a place where female characters thrived, where telling genre story did not always mean following a blockbuster convention and where there was endless hunger for worlds that felt new."

My note- Really liked that because a lot of people will say Lucas let everything go and gave his "thumbs up" in EU stories for the money it made him. That may very well be true, but didn't necessarily make the EU a bad thing therefore.

"Now that Disney has decided Star Wars is a big mainstream business again, the company has killed off the EU in favor of something grander and probably blander."
« Last Edit: May 6, 2014, 04:26 PM by GrandMoffNick »
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Offline Angry Ewok

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #81 on: May 6, 2014, 04:20 PM »
...and how are you going to tell me Grand Admiral Thrawn doesn't exist?

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #82 on: May 6, 2014, 04:23 PM »
I am a mixed bag on EU in terms of quality.  I could find elements of anything I enjoyed, but I also found a lot of it to be pretty poor quality.  I'd say I'm probably not even 50/50 in that regard and really felt like the majority was pretty bad...  Some small stories (Tales of series) were that way to me, and some huge story arcs (NJO) were that way to me.

I think the only entire single series I enjoyed was the Thrawn Trilogy.

Video games, for me, had better stories to them generally...  Possibly because they focused on my favorite aspects of the Saga, the military/war aspect of it.  So X-Wing, TIE Fighter, X-Wing: Alliance, Dark Forces/Jedi Knight/Mysteries of the Sith...  Republic Commando, Rogue Squadron (all of 'em), Force Commander, Empire At War, elements of Galactic Battlegrounds... 

I also liked the RPG's back in the day.  The old West End Games stuff was the first to really flesh out EU much at all.  It wasn't all good stuff, but it was all short little bits and pieces.  And games like the original Miniatures Battles established the "Naval Troopers" for the Empire, the original and awesome (far better than the ****** comic version) Zero-G Stormtrooper, Rebel Scout Troopers, Rebel "Infiltrators", Imperial Army Troopers, etc. 

Of course they also said AT-AT's were only 15 m tall too, so nothing was perfect in EU to me.

I'm looking at these new movies as things Lucas didn't make...  Like anything else, they'll maybe be good or maybe not.  I'm not fixating on it.  I don't think taking existing stories and making a movie of them would've worked too well though.  A TV show perhaps, like Rogue Squadron the cartoon or whatnot, but I just can't see a movie out of even the novels I really did like.  I could and can still see some EU characters creeping into any given movie though.  I doubt much of it will, but why not?

I'm just kicking back and enjoying it for what it is, and enjoying my old EU stuff that I liked as well.
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Offline Angry Ewok

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #83 on: May 6, 2014, 04:26 PM »
I would love to see a poll on the most enjoyed / least enjoyed EU contributions.

I'm guessing the Thrawn Trilogy, Shadows of the Empire, and the Rogue Squadron Series would be favorites?

Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #84 on: May 6, 2014, 04:48 PM »
Quote
"Now that Disney has decided Star Wars is a big mainstream business again, the company has killed off the EU in favor of something grander and probably blander."

This is the where the author loses legitimacy.  This is just his opinion and no one yet knows how Episode VII, the one-offs, or Disney's other media is going to be.  I mean, this sounds like a bitter fanboy right here.

Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #85 on: May 6, 2014, 05:32 PM »
Quote
"Now that Disney has decided Star Wars is a big mainstream business again, the company has killed off the EU in favor of something grander and probably blander."

This is the where the author loses legitimacy.  This is just his opinion and no one yet knows how Episode VII, the one-offs, or Disney's other media is going to be.  I mean, this sounds like a bitter fanboy right here.

I think it was a opinion piece. Of course she couldn't have been writing a factual piece on what Disney is doing. No one knows what they are doing. But she is in the same Nerd boy status as I. "Opinion" doesn't cancel out legitimacy. It's opinion. And I agree with her that it's a possibility. So it could be legitimate. I believe she says probably. Not that she is sure. I liked the article so I mentioned it.

Didn't post it to say "See I told you I was right!"

I love being a bitter fan boy. Thanks for calling me out
« Last Edit: May 6, 2014, 05:39 PM by GrandMoffNick »
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #86 on: May 6, 2014, 05:52 PM »
Quote
"Now that Disney has decided Star Wars is a big mainstream business again, the company has killed off the EU in favor of something grander and probably blander."

This is the where the author loses legitimacy.  This is just his opinion and no one yet knows how Episode VII, the one-offs, or Disney's other media is going to be.  I mean, this sounds like a bitter fanboy right here.

I think it was a opinion piece. Of course she couldn't have been writing a factual piece on what Disney is doing. No one knows what they are doing. But she is in the same Nerd boy status as I. "Opinion" doesn't cancel out legitimacy. It's opinion. And I agree with her that it's a possibility. So it could be legitimate. I believe she says probably. Not that she is sure. I liked the article so I mentioned it.

Didn't post it to say "See I told you I was right!"

I love being a bitter fan boy. Thanks for calling me out

I wasn't calling you out... just several of the things I've seen posted elsewhere.  But to me, it sounds like the author is saying they are getting rid of EU for something crappier, which isn't fair.  Now, come Episode VII and it isn't great, then I think it's a legitimate gripe; but to complain about something before it happens, that's where I mean it sounds like the bitter fanboy rant.  So basically she is pre-judging the new trilogy because the EU was declared "Legacy" and not canon by Disney.

But, again, Nick, just because Disney says it isn't so, doesn't mean that you can't think it's so in your SW world.  Trust me, there are things tinkered with in the Original Trilogy Special Editions that aren't canon to me (Greedo shoots first, etc).  I remember complaining about that and having people counter it by saying, "It's Lucas' movies, he can do what he wants."  I guess Disney now has those rights to make those changes, but it doesn't mean they own the memory of the Star Wars I love... I hope that's the way you feel about it as well.

Sometimes this EU debate is worse than some of the political ones in the Sarlacc Pit.  ;D
« Last Edit: May 6, 2014, 06:00 PM by P-Siddy »

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #87 on: May 6, 2014, 07:32 PM »
Quote
But to me, it sounds like the author is saying they are getting rid of EU for something crappier, which isn't fair.

Especially when they're NOT GETTING RID OF TH EU! ( ;D)

But I know what you're saying there too...  I agree completely.  If 7-9 suck, just ignore them.

I feel like we're trying to talk you off the bitter fanboy ledge Nick. :P

I mean, there's always going to be this element of Star Wars nerd debate/discussion that will say you can't think one way or the other because someone somewhere is throwing out what is canon and what isn't.  I say, simply, ignore that if you want...  or not...  whatever works for you.

I love talking Star Wars what if's, and stuff like that.  Like I said, me and CorranHorn, and DarthSchroeder (oh where art thou?) would debate and discuss Star Wars vehicles to no end when we were all less busy and chat rooms were a thing that wasn't just on Dateline NBC.

I loved making up designs of vehicles...  Scratch builds...  We'd discuss what made sense with EU designs like the Hound's Tooth (which we then discussed has deck-by-deck plans actually out there in the EU already).

Lots of good talk...  That talk isn't going away to me. 

Like I said, Kyle Katarn fought the Aliens from the movie Aliens.  That's my Star Wars.  It's dumb to many, but to me I love it.  Even have some sweet Hot Toys Aliens ripping apart Stormtroopers on my shelf, and getting some ready for harvesting. :P
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Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #88 on: May 6, 2014, 09:25 PM »
I'm not going anywhere that's for sure. I have always been the person who thinks "as much as TPM sucks, I'm still glad the world I've always loved since a kid got to have more story to it". For me ANH, ESB, ROTJ don't get diluted by other SW not being up to their standards. And so I've always felt that way about EU too. I've loved SW for as long as I remember, have been collecting/playing with the toys for about as long and so if my choice is X amount of star wars or X + EU then sign me up for X+EU even if it isn't all excellent. So I'm glad we are getting 7, 8, 9.

I can't fully articulate my annoyance, but as I've said before, I understand why they want to start fresh, but it still rubs me the wrong way when anyone, whether it's Disney or just another fan who just poo poos the EU like it doesn't count even when that may not actually be what they are saying.

I have always been the person who likes when people say "this is what I consider a part of my SW world and what I don't". And we can all do that. But again when whoever decides to "tell me" or I decide to imply that's what they were doing then I get pissy. So Jesse saying he doesn't like 50% plus of EU or NJO when I love NJO and probably 80% of EU, I read that and go ok. Other posts don't come off as "this is my SW world" but "this should be everyone's SW world" (I probably do it myself). That gets me. Anyway I just completed another incoherent rant so.......

I think there are things in the world going on that actually matter but who has time for that.
« Last Edit: May 6, 2014, 11:37 PM by GrandMoffNick »
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Disney to Purge Select EU
« Reply #89 on: May 6, 2014, 09:43 PM »
It's all about people telling you what to believe about a world that doesn't even exist...  That sums it up.  Believe what you want about that world because it's all fiction so who gives a hoot what some guy says you "should" think about it?

I have my likes, you have yours...  Some people will look to be directed as to what is and what isn't, and that's their thing.

It's like imagination rules.  That's something that doesn't jive well with me.  Logic I get, and I like to bring it up in discussions, but a good example for me is the AT-AT's deployment mechanisms...

Originally it knelt to the ground and troops debarked by the large belly door.  Then "zip lines" came about.

I hybrid that and say both are possible, and for different reasons both are employed.  Zip lines in "hot zones", kneeling walkers to deploy more slowly and orderly, or to load/unload larger cargo.

Some hate the thought of AT-AT's kneeling at all...  I see it as quite possible, and logical to have the ability since their designation is that of a transport.  Helicopters can land, and they can zip line troopers, and they do both for distinct reasons.

Someone might say that the zip line idea supersedes the kneeling idea, and is "canon" and thus I can't say they kneel...  I say toss off, and please don't tell myself or others what an AT-AT can or can't do.  I can say it can tap dance if I feel like because guess what?  AT-AT's don't friggin' exist, nerd!  :)  Then, proceed to wedgie everyone.
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