Author Topic: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)  (Read 21729 times)

Online Nicklab

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Re: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)
« Reply #285 on: May 10, 2016, 10:43 AM »
I think it was implied that Zemo accessed the Hydra/Shield data that Widow dumped public at the end of Winter Soldier.

Thanks for jogging my memory.  Zemo did get a little bit confessional at some point and now I remember him talking about decrypting some of that data.  That being said, the movie was pretty dense in terms of communicating all of these plot points, and I could see the potential for the audience to walk away a little bit confused.
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Offline Qui-Gon Jim

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Re: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)
« Reply #286 on: May 10, 2016, 01:35 PM »
You are right, and your comment was not the first I have read questioning this.  It is also implied but not stated that Zemo was the buyer of the stuff that Crossbones and crew were stealing.

Offline JediJman

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Re: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)
« Reply #287 on: May 10, 2016, 10:53 PM »
I didn't think much about it until it was brought up here - I'll have to watch the Zemo bits more closely when I go to see it again.  I thought the events unfolded like this:

#1 - Zemo wants revenge on the Supers for accidentally killing his family
#2 - Widow releases the Hydra files to the public in CA#2.
#3 - Zemo decrypts several of the files and discovers Bucky's brainwashing.  He then attempts to follow leads to track Bucky down and use him to drive the Avengers apart.  The encrypted files likely showed that Winter Soldier killed the Starks.
#4 - At some point he gets his hand on the Hyrdra Photostatic Veil and uses it to frame Bucky for the bombing, which accelerates support for the accords AND flushes out Bucky.
#5 - Zemo brainwashes Bucky to fight the others and asks for detail about a specific mission, which he couldn't get from the first guy he threatened.  He clearly wants to know more about either the other soldiers, the base, or what happend to the Starks (probably all of the above)
#6 - This leads him to the Hydra facility where he kills the other supah soldiers, then has time to snoop around for files, video, etc. on the program
#7 - SHIELD/Widow/Stark discover that Bucky was framed, so Zemo rightly guesses Stark will be coming after him.  Maybe he even leaked the info on the frame job to ensure Stark would be there
#8 - In the facility, Zemo tracks down the recording of Stark's parents being killed.  It would make sense that the video would be there - it's not like they had a lot of videotapes or DVDs to store things on back in the 40's.  OR Zemo hooked up the old style monitor to play the recording using the Hydra files he previously decrypted.
#9 - Just like the bombing, Zemo plays the tape to get Cap and Stark fighting to the death (I did actually think Stark was going to die when the shield cut into his ARC reactor
#10 - Having turned the heroes against each other, Zemo decides to kill himself rather than be imprisoned, but Panther stops him
#11 - After being incarcerated, Zemo implies that his plans did not fail, which makes me wonderif he is referring to the schism between the Avengers or if there are other machinations he set in motion.  Maybe he wanted to die, so that he couldn't be captured and forced to reveal info on anything else he initiated.

Makes pretty good sense to me.  The camera in the woods catching the murder was conveniently placed, but I think it read something like "Camera 3" at the bottom implying there were other cameras set up there.  Guessing they set all this up to dispose of the Starks and ensure that Bucky was 100% under their control.  Or maybe to prove to someone else that the Starks were actually dead.  They would thus want some kind of video to monitor Bucky throughout the mission and ensure that he didn't hesitate to do whatever they asked.  It's not perfectly spelled out in the movie, but that's the general take I had on events.
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Offline BillCable

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Re: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)
« Reply #288 on: May 11, 2016, 08:02 AM »
Gotta flip 1 and 2 to be chronological, but that is a pretty decent breakdown.
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Online Nicklab

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Re: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)
« Reply #289 on: May 11, 2016, 08:18 AM »
Agreed.  Seeing it laid out like that does give us some clarity on the chain of events.

There's another question that I'm left with following the movie that a friend brought up.  That being the super soldier serum that Howard Stark was transporting in his own car.  Was Howard trying to duplicate Professor Erskine's work and develop a new Captain America?  Was this something of a callback to when General Ross told Emil Blonsky in The Incredible Hulk that people had been working on replicating the Captain America super soldier serum?  Was this one of the attempts?  Howard seems like a prime candidate to try to replicate the experiment since he took part in the original experiment.

As for HYDRA learning of this new development and putting a hit on Howard Stark?  It seems that if HYDRA went after someone as high up in SHIELD as Howard Stark, it seems pretty likely that HYDRA had already infiltrated the upper echelons of SHIELD by that time so that they were able to gain intel about this new development.  From the footage of the tests in Siberia, it looks like the serum was not quite as successful, since the new Winter Soldiers seemed violent and out of control during that training session.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 08:22 AM by Nicklab »
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Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)
« Reply #290 on: May 15, 2016, 06:36 PM »
I finally got to see the new Capt America yesterday.  I absolutely loved it!  I am having a hard time trying to figure out which is my favorite Marvel movie at this point, it's a toss up between Civil War and Winter Soldier.

Also, after being a Spider-Man fan fr over 40 years, I have finally seen a good and accurate Spider-Man movie.  :D
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Offline I Am Sith

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Re: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)
« Reply #291 on: May 15, 2016, 09:48 PM »
I was also finally able to get out and see it yesterday.  Definitely not my favorite (Winter Soldier), but definitely up near the top 5.  Thought the plot, action, humor, suspense, etc. were all a good mix.  Really liking what the Russo's are doing when they are at the helm and looking forward to what Infinity War has to offer.

The highlight for me was definitely Spiderman - how he was used in the conflict, how he was portrayed by Tom Holland, how Tony Stark designed and gave him his costume...  Really looking forward to the new movie and more Aunt May!

My only gripe, and this is definitely personal, was the opening action scenes.  I've never been a fan of the in-your-face fight scenes and on-foot chases.  I think this is why to this day I've never watched another Hunger Games movie.  I could never get past the first one and the running/fighting sequences.  The opening scenes in this movie reminded me a lot about that film and just didn't do it for me.  I thought that the end fight was much easier to watch and still gave me the level of suspense and realism that I needed without having to be right on top of the action.

Favorite lines - Bucky: You couldn't have done that earlier (after Falcon gets rid of Spiderman).  Falcon: I hate you.
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Offline 77Skywalker

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Re: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)
« Reply #292 on: May 26, 2016, 09:49 PM »
I enjoyed Captain America Civil War and for me, the main highlight was Tom Holland's performance as our very own friendly neighborhood Spider-Man.

Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)
« Reply #293 on: May 27, 2016, 09:31 AM »
Everybody thought Spiderman would suck. I hear Aunt May is hot. Never thought I would type that.
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Offline Scockery

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Re: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)
« Reply #294 on: June 8, 2016, 09:43 PM »
Finally saw it. I didn't care for some of the opening fight scenes' style, either.

I'd forgotten how Zemo got all that info. It's only been hours.  :P

His plan depends on room service being nosy. "If she doesn't look in the bathroom, my plan is doomed!" Or something.

The character was so-so, because the actor didn't do much for me. I don't know why they bothered to call him Zemo, though.

How did Iron Man know who Spidey was? Is he like Lex Luthor in Dawn of Justice. RICH GENIUSES CAN FIGURE OUT ANYTHING...cuz rich...and smart.

Next movie
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Ah, the reveal...hard to take after too many super hero movies. I mean, Jack "Sandman" Napier killed Tony's mom and dad? Was Tony's mom's name Martha?

Anyway, it was good.  Nothing terribly wrong with it other than Chris Evans' lack of charisma and Winter Soldier's supporting lack of charisma.  :D

Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)
« Reply #295 on: June 9, 2016, 09:14 AM »
Ah, the reveal...hard to take after too many super hero movies. I mean, Jack "Sandman" Napier killed Tony's mom and dad? Was Tony's mom's name Martha?

I thought it was the man with four fingers. Tony: "You killed my father. Prepare to die!"
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Offline JediJman

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Re: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)
« Reply #296 on: June 9, 2016, 09:38 AM »
Ah, the reveal...hard to take after too many super hero movies. I mean, Jack "Sandman" Napier killed Tony's mom and dad? Was Tony's mom's name Martha?

I thought it was the man with four fingers. Tony: "You killed my father. Prepare to die!"

The SIX fingered man...



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Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: Captain America (Movie & Sequels)
« Reply #297 on: June 10, 2016, 09:09 AM »
Your right. I stand corrected.
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