Author Topic: 'The Hobbit' movie  (Read 24260 times)

Offline Master_Phruby

  • Jedi Master
  • *
  • Posts: 6736
  • It's for display only!
    • View Profile
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #165 on: January 12, 2011, 08:18 PM »
But will it do well? Is the public over the Sword and Sorcery movies? The latest Narnia movie tanked big time. Just because the fan boys want it, doesn't mean it will do well. I'm looking at you Watchmen!
This message brought to you by Wookiee Cookiees - "MMM... Chewie!"
Visit The Endor Express - The Ultimate Guide to Disney's Star Tours

Offline Jesse James

  • Staff Member
  • Grand Master
  • *
  • Posts: 31432
  • Slippery When Poopy
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender.com
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #166 on: January 12, 2011, 08:36 PM »
I think Lord of the Rings transcends things like Narnia, or Watchmen...  They have their niches, but Lord of the Rings has literature courses on just Tolkien's works at different colleges.  I think that speaks volumes to the renown of his books.  I think The Hobbit will do incredibly well so long as its quality isn't suffering at all.

I kind of put LOTR in with Star Wars...  More Star Wars will do well financially.  I mean, look at the prequals, and they didn't suffer financially at all but probably by all rights should have.
2011 Rebel Fleet Trooper Gets My Seal Of Approval!  But Where's The Friggin' Holster On Him!?
Jedi Defender.com Contributing Editor, Twitter @JediDefender & @Jesse_James77

Online Nicklab

  • Jedi General
  • *
  • Posts: 8264
  • Deceived? WHAT?!?!
    • View Profile
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #167 on: January 12, 2011, 08:58 PM »
But will it do well? Is the public over the Sword and Sorcery movies? The latest Narnia movie tanked big time. Just because the fan boys want it, doesn't mean it will do well. I'm looking at you Watchmen!

Good question.  The Lovely Bones was an interesting film for Peter Jackson to take on, and King Kong did reasonably well.  But Peter Jackson (as a director) has not been able to match the success of the LOTR trilogy with any of his subsequent work.  I have to believe that his knowledge and passion for Tolkien's work will elevate The Hobbit above some of the other fantasy fare that movie goers have been taking in over the past 5 years.  

I don't think the fantasy genre is dead.  Just look at the Harry Potter series.  The series has grossed over $8 billion worldwide, and there's still one film yet to be released.  Are studios guilty of trying to capitalize on the success of LOTR and Harry Potter?  Absolutely.  When the first Narnia film was coming out a big part of the selling of that film was the relationship between C.S. Lewis and Tolkien.

The casting news has been great.  And I don't think you would have this level of talent involved if the director and the script were not just as great.  The hopes for these films are definitely high, but Peter Jackson's track record with Tolkien's material has to leave you optimistic about what will wind up on screen.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 08:58 PM by Nicklab »
"You were entrusted to lead the Republic." - Vote for Ven Zallow from THE OLD REPUBLIC in figure polls!

Feedback

Offline McMetal

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 4029
    • View Profile
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #168 on: January 18, 2011, 09:21 AM »
The latest Narnia movie tanked big time.

Maybe people over the age of 13 realized this was just a thinly veiled Christian parable and churchy God stuff is not nearly as cool or interesting as actual sword and sorcery/fantasy stuff?

Any religiousy type junk like that can be the kiss of death for the fanboy set.
Slice you open like a tauntaun, faster than the Autobahn,
Or a motorbike in Tron, do the deed and then I'm gone.

Offline GrandMoffNick

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 3324
  • I am now using steroids to enhance my posts.
    • View Profile
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #169 on: January 18, 2011, 09:46 AM »
The latest Narnia movie tanked big time.

Maybe people over the age of 13 realized this was just a thinly veiled Christian parable and churchy God stuff is not nearly as cool or interesting as actual sword and sorcery/fantasy stuff?

Any religiousy type junk like that can be the kiss of death for the fanboy set.

C.S. Lewis never meant for them to be thinly veiled. The first two were Christian parables (as all the Narnia books are) and did just fine despite being "religiousy type junk" as you so eloquently stated.
"A dog doesn't care if you're rich or poor, clever or dull, smart or dumb. Give him your heart and he'll give you his. How many people can you say that about, how many people can make you feel rare?"

Offline shmashwitdaclub

  • Jedi Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 2089
    • View Profile
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #170 on: January 18, 2011, 02:53 PM »
I just think deeper movies, in general, can be/will be appreciated more by an adult audience.

One could easily compare Narnia to LOTR and the themes of Christianity are both there, but it is a lot harder to see it in LOTR.  I just did a quick search on the topic as a refresher but, while Tolkien and Lewis were friends I am pretty sure they disagreed with how "deep" it should be.  Tolkien wasn't a fan of how outright Lewis' writing/message was.  I guess Lewis churned out all 7 of his Narnia books in 7 years whereas Tolkien did LOTR in trilogy in 17 years.  a quality vs. quantity debate there

So, looking at the two, which is more widely appreciated?  I am pretty sure the general consensus would be LOTR.  More action + deeper message = win?



On a similar note - I just watched "Inception" and loved it for all of its complexities.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 02:54 PM by shmashwitdaclub »

Offline GrandMoffNick

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 3324
  • I am now using steroids to enhance my posts.
    • View Profile
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #171 on: January 18, 2011, 03:05 PM »
I don't disagree with a non Christian movie doing better, but Lewis was a Christian author so of course he wanted that message out there. Tolkien wasn't. I love LOTR. Like Narnia. But I'm all for a Christian author writing a Christian story.

I'm gonna get yelled at for off topic soon.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 03:06 PM by GrandMoffNick »
"A dog doesn't care if you're rich or poor, clever or dull, smart or dumb. Give him your heart and he'll give you his. How many people can you say that about, how many people can make you feel rare?"

Offline shmashwitdaclub

  • Jedi Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 2089
    • View Profile
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #172 on: January 18, 2011, 04:29 PM »
Tolkien was a Christian author - LOTR is a Christian story.

Offline McMetal

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 4029
    • View Profile
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #173 on: January 18, 2011, 08:10 PM »
Sorry, I didn't mean to steer the topic off course. It's probably not even fair to compare the two.

I've read all of both sets of books and I do think there is more to Tolkien's stuff that perhaps lends itself to a larger audience.

I think the Hobbit will do well, even with a colossal budget.
Slice you open like a tauntaun, faster than the Autobahn,
Or a motorbike in Tron, do the deed and then I'm gone.

Offline Sprry75

  • Jedi Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 2217
  • semper ubi sub ubi
    • View Profile
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #174 on: January 18, 2011, 10:33 PM »
Tolkien was a Christian author - LOTR is a Christian story.

I'll grant you the former, but you lost me on the latter.  How do you figure? 
"Really?  Sorry."

Offline Jesse James

  • Staff Member
  • Grand Master
  • *
  • Posts: 31432
  • Slippery When Poopy
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender.com
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #175 on: January 19, 2011, 12:52 AM »
Smash, Tolkien actually himself was pretty vehement in saying that he wasn't drawing on Christianity with the Middle-Earth books...  He also said he didn't draw on his experiences in World War I though, pertaining to LOTR though...  I personally think he was influenced to a degree, if only subconsciously, from those experiences, but he seemed to lose a lot of his "faith" after the war.

Lucas sort of denies Christian influence in Star Wars, but I think analogies can be made, whether intended or not...  I don't know if they were intentional with either though.
2011 Rebel Fleet Trooper Gets My Seal Of Approval!  But Where's The Friggin' Holster On Him!?
Jedi Defender.com Contributing Editor, Twitter @JediDefender & @Jesse_James77

Offline shmashwitdaclub

  • Jedi Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 2089
    • View Profile
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #176 on: January 19, 2011, 10:52 AM »
google something like this "lord of the rings christian" and you will find countless entries for it.

dont have much time to do all the searching now but here are some quick things:
Quote
J.R.R. Tolkien wrote to a priest friend, "The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision." [1] By design The Lord of the Rings is not a Christian allegory but rather an invented myth [2] about Christian and Catholic truths.

the fundamentals
Quote
Like all Christians, Frodo is called to risk his life through great peril to save others. Frodo, like us, does not appear to be up to the task. He does not have any obvious talent suited for war. But he is chosen, as we are. We are all necessary for God's grand plan to be fulfilled; and even the most unlikely and disgusting Gollum-like beast in our life is necessary. And when Frodo asks, "What can a little hobbit do?" — Isaiah answers, "A little child will lead them" (11:6).

Quote
There is a longing for the return of the king. As Christians long for the return of Christ the King, so the free people of Middle-earth long for their kingdoms to be once more united in peace and justice under the rightful heir.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/arts/al0160.html

I also once read this book, Walking With Frodo: A Devotional Journey Through the Lord of the Rings.  Throughout this book/devotional the comparisons are very clearly outlined between the characters and their actions and Christianity.

anyway, there is a lot there on the webs - do some searching when you have the time

i don't mean to sound as if I am being a "turd" - so please don't take it that way    ;D
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 10:55 AM by shmashwitdaclub »

Offline Sprry75

  • Jedi Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 2217
  • semper ubi sub ubi
    • View Profile
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #177 on: January 19, 2011, 10:54 PM »
While there are themes of good vs. evil and archetypal protagonists, those are hardly unique to Christianity.  Go read some Joseph Campbell. ;)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2011, 10:55 PM by Sprry75 »
"Really?  Sorry."

Offline Jesse James

  • Staff Member
  • Grand Master
  • *
  • Posts: 31432
  • Slippery When Poopy
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender.com
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #178 on: January 19, 2011, 11:21 PM »
Smash,

Basically what Sprry said...  The archetypes are there, but they're comparable to a lot.  The on-set of my Tolkien Studies class in college actually made it a point to reinforce that we weren't to get "trapped in Christian themes" because Tolkien denied them completely.  People still draw them though, especially religious groups.   

Like I said, he denied influences from his WW1 experiences despite it being a traumatic and extensive part of his life as a younger man.  Many of his best friends died.  I think he was subconsciously influenced by the war, but he denies any intentional influence put into LOTR...  He was the same with Christianity though, if not moreso.  I find him to be much more influenced in his writing by nature, and the organic, over religious overtones and things.  Just my opinion though. 
2011 Rebel Fleet Trooper Gets My Seal Of Approval!  But Where's The Friggin' Holster On Him!?
Jedi Defender.com Contributing Editor, Twitter @JediDefender & @Jesse_James77

Offline Scott

  • Staff Member
  • Jedi Guardian
  • *
  • Posts: 18310
  • Get Some
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #179 on: January 20, 2011, 09:34 AM »
I think we're splitting hairs a little here because I think both sides are

Furthering what Jesse said, he also repeatedly made a point of not trying to force Allegory on anything written in Middle Earth.  Which is totally opposite of Lewis who embraced the concept of allegory...so while I think Christianity and boths WWs influenced him and shaped his story, they aren't meant to be the basis of either.