Author Topic: NBA 2003/04  (Read 29848 times)

Offline Morgbug

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #315 on: May 26, 2004, 09:26 PM »

And I'll agree with the sentiment about how the style of play in the NBA has detrimentally changed over the years, which is why I said I'd watch the 80's Showtime Lakers any day of the week over our current team.  Hell, to be honest, I sometimes enjoy watching Sacto and Dallas play, since they're two of the only teams that still maintain much of an 80's style offense, and some great passing skills.  I agree that the slide started most notably with Detroit's "Bad Boys" of the late 80's/early 90's, though I certainly detected a hint of it with the mid/late 80's Celtics too.  They banged, pushed, pulled, cheap-shotted, etc. quite a lot as well, but were much more polished offensively though, so their antics weren't quite as noticeable or memorable.  (sorry Bug)   :-*



No argument Matt.  The reason the Lakers won more in the 80's was because they were more talented.  Pretty simple.  It really became a matter more of whether Bird could single handedly pull off a miracle or not.  That's not to say that McHale, Johnson, Ainge and the Chief weren't a good supporting cast, they were.  They just weren't as talented.  

As far as the physicality goes, I agree too.  But I think the phrase from the sublime to the ridiculous is well applied here.  In the 80's, the Chief would back in, bouncing and shoving with his ass until he felt the release of pressure and he had the room for his unstoppable turnaround J.  But that was an offensive foul.  Hell, I remember refs telling players to take their hands off the body on D :o  I was watching the game the other night when one of the Wolves, much smaller than Shaq basically had himself at a 45 degree angle with his hand out holding Shaq.  Is that a foul?  Sure it is, but hell, he's trying to hold a 300+lb monster back from shoving him into the 3rd row of seats without a foul being called.  That's not basketball, that's an offensive lineman.  Wrong sport, stoopid waste.  Call it all.  

Don't get me started on travelling.  Gawrsh, it was amazing when Julius Erving would take off and dunk from the foul line.   Now every schmo can do it.  Why?  Well, Erving got maybe a 1/2 step of generosity from the refs, but he was good enough at it that the call would look questionable if you nailed him on travelling; it's all in precisely when you pick up your dribble.  These jokers today get 3 steps plus the 1/2.  Hell, I could dunk in high school with four steps and I'm short AND white.  

Highlights are about all I can bear.  Entertainment over substance.  Blech.
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Offline JediMAC

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #316 on: May 26, 2004, 09:43 PM »
...the Chief would back in, bouncing and shoving with his ass until he felt the release of pressure...

Sounds like an enema ad.   :P

I was watching the game the other night when one of the Wolves, much smaller than Shaq basically had himself at a 45 degree angle with his hand out holding Shaq.  Is that a foul?  Sure it is, but hell, he's trying to hold a 300+lb monster back from shoving him into the 3rd row of seats without a foul being called.  That's not basketball, that's an offensive lineman.  Wrong sport, stoopid waste.  Call it all.

Yeah.  Former Laker Mark "Mad Dog" Madsen.  That's some hilarious stuff to watch when he D's up against Shaq, and I've been pointing out each time we played the Pups all year that his nearly parallel to the floor angle of defense MUST be a foul.  But like I mentioned above, that kind of stuff (though not to this interesting degree, pun intended) happens to Shaq on nearly every play, otherwise, how the hell can anyone possibly guard him when they're so much smaller than him.  Therefore, I don't sweat it too much.  He's dominant and unstoppable when he feels like it.  He gets hammered unrelentlessly, and shoves his fair share of defenders outta the way...  Seems like a fair trade-off to me.

Traveling?  Palming the ball?  Carrying over?  What the hell's that stuff?  I just consider it all to be a part of the developing "artistry" of the current generation of players, point guards, and various ballhandlers.  I don't mind it too much, as long as everyone gets to do it.  It does make for some sweet looking plays and impressive ball handling displays.   8)

Offline Scott

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #317 on: May 26, 2004, 11:11 PM »
a. A player shall not hold, push, charge into, impede the progress of an oppo-nent by extending a hand, forearm, leg or knee or by bending the body into a posi-tion that is not normal. Contact that results in the re-routing of an opponent is a foul which must be called immediately.
b. Contact initiated by the defensive player guarding a player with the ball is not legal. This contact includes, but is not limited to, forearm, hands, or body check.
EXCEPTIONS:
(1) A defender may apply contact with a forearm to an offensive player with the ball who has his back to the basket below the free throw line extend-ed outside the Lower Defensive Box.
(2) A defender may apply contact with a forearm and/or one hand with a bent elbow to an offensive player in a post-up position with the ball in the Lower Defensive Box.
(3) A defender may apply contact with a forearm to an offensive player with the ball at any time in the Lower Defensive Box. The forearm in the above exceptions is solely for the purpose of main-taining a defensive position.

(4) A defender may position his leg between the legs of an offensive player in a post-up position in the Lower Defensive Box for the purpose of main-taining defensive position. If his foot leaves the floor in an attempt to dis-lodge his opponent, it is a foul immediately.
(5) Incidental contact with the hand against an offensive player shall be ignored if it does not affect the player's speed, quickness, balance and/or rhythm.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2004, 11:11 PM by OCB »

Offline Scott

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #318 on: May 26, 2004, 11:14 PM »
Section II--By Dribbler
a. A dribbler shall not (1) charge into an opponent who has established a legal guarding position, or (2) attempt to dribble between two opponents, or (3) attempt to dribble between an opponent and a boundary, where sufficient space is not avail-able for illegal contact to be avoided.
b. If a defender is able to establish a legal position in the straight line path of the dribbler, the dribbler must avoid contact by changing direction or ending his dribble.
c. The dribbler must be in control of his body at all times. If illegal contact occurs, the responsibility is on the dribbler.
PENALTY: The offender is assessed an offensive foul. There is no team foul. The ball is awarded to the offended team on the sideline nearest the spot where play was interrupted but no nearer to the baseline than the free throw line extended.
EXCEPTION: Rule 3--Section I--a.
d. If a dribbler has sufficient space to have his head and shoulders in advance of his defender, the responsibility for illegal contact is on the defender.
e. If a dribbler has established a straight line path, a defender may not crowd him out of that path.

Offline Scott

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #319 on: May 26, 2004, 11:14 PM »
And to also add...sure there's contact both ways but they call 13-19 fouls per game against the Wolves and 2-4 against Shaq ::)

Offline Scott

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #320 on: May 26, 2004, 11:30 PM »
Oh...and the Magic win the lottery
2004 LOTTERY RESULTS
1. Orlando
2. L.A. Clippers
3. Chicago
4. Charlotte
5. Washington
6. Atlanta
7. Phoenix
8. Toronto
9. Philadelphia
10. Cleveland
11. Golden State
12. Seattle
13. Portland
14. Utah
 

Exhibit A that the NBA does some shady things....the Lottery, its not live, and it used to be rigged...come on Ewing going to the Knicks way back when.  Get rid of it and award the team with the worst record the #1 pick Which would have given the Wolves Shaq or the next year when the Magic had one freaking ping pong ball and got the #1 pick...or when the Bulls magically got the #1 pick 2 years after Jordan retired

Online Jeff

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #321 on: May 27, 2004, 12:17 AM »
Jeff decrypts the NBA's secret intent behind this years draft...

1. Orlando - get T-Mac some help.  That way we can showcase him more on TNT and then when he's popular/super-star, move him to LA to replace aging vets.

2. L.A. Clippers - back-up plan.  Make the Clippers good in case LAkers can't hold on to "alleged rapist, #8" and implode.

3. Chicago - Knicks/Bulls rivalry must be restored for ratings sake, but Chi-town is still recovering from Jordan.  Need help since the dumb-ass crashed his bike.


I love the NBA draft conspiracy talk... so many times it "lucks out".  Like for instance LeBron, an OH native going to.. The Cleveland Cavs!

Too many times the draft has worked out all too neatly...

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Offline JediMAC

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #322 on: May 27, 2004, 04:13 AM »
Just noticed this little tidbit in Virex's DVD release thread:

June:

NBA Dynasty Series: Chicago Bulls: The 1990's (four-discs) (1st)

Anyone know anything about this DVD series?  Is this the first one to come out?  Know of any future ones?  I'd LOVE to get my grubby mitts on a Lakers Showtime DVD set, which I'd have to assume would be the second in this series.  That'd be a dream come true to get some great 80's footage of my boys, to keep archived in the DVD collection for years to come.  I've been hoping for something like this for a long time...

On a related note, has anyone picked up the "Ultimate Jordan" DVD that came out late last year?  I meant to snag one, but waited too long and they seemed to all completely disappear from my local Targets and Walmarts...

As for the draft...  Blah.  No big name players out there anyway.  Gets worse and worse every year, as the college ranks are depleted more and more by early NBA entries for it's rising young players.  Not to mention the high school kids.  Just very few established studs in the lottery much anymore.

Yawn.

Nice win by Detroit tonight too!   8)

Offline JediMAC

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #323 on: May 27, 2004, 04:34 AM »
Anyone know anything about this DVD series?  Is this the first one to come out?  Know of any future ones?  I'd LOVE to get my grubby mitts on a Lakers Showtime DVD set, which I'd have to assume would be the second in this series...

Nevermind that question.  Just found the answer myself.   8)  Being released the same day as the Bulls set - next Tuesday.  Sweet!!



DVD Descriptions:
Quote
Learn everything you ever wanted to know about the NBA's most successful franchise, the Los Angeles Lakers, in this comprehensive documentary. From the 1950s, through the reign of Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in the 1980s, up to the superstar pairing of Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant in the late 1990s and early 2000s, this release gives fans and sports aficionados enough material to chew on for years to come.

Quote
Over the past 50 years the Lakers have won an unprecedented 14 Championships, making them the best NBA franchise ever. This 5-disc special edition collector's set features the complete Lakers history including year-end compilation programs highlighting the Championship seasons from the 1950s through 2002. Plus for the first time ever on DVD, the team's most memorable Finals games including their first Championship win in Los Angeles, Magic's "baby hook" game in 1987, and their back-to-back title games.

1,338 minutes of Laker goodness on this 5 DVD set.  I'm in heaven now...   :)
« Last Edit: May 27, 2004, 04:37 AM by JediMAC »

Offline JediMAC

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #324 on: May 27, 2004, 04:48 AM »
Closer look at the cover, which I'm sure will make Scott very happy...



Great.  An "incomplete" lineup of players there.  That's a rather glaring ommission by the dumbass cover designer.   >:(  Mikan?  C'mon...   ::)  This should be an L.A. Lakers ONLY DVD set (hell, Showtime Lakers only).  Give the poor Minnesota fellas their own collection of those old-timers, so they can at least have something to enjoy...

Offline Matt

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #325 on: May 27, 2004, 05:01 AM »
On a related note, has anyone picked up the "Ultimate Jordan" DVD that came out late last year?  I meant to snag one, but waited too long and they seemed to all completely disappear from my local Targets and Walmarts...

I bought it when it was originally released back on September 25, 2001.  

Evidently, it went out of print for a while, and then was re-released last fall.  Haven't noticed it in stores lately, but that's probably because I've already got it.

It's available at Amazon right now for $14.99 plus shipping.

Link

Fantastic set--easily worth the fifteen bucks.  This and the new Bulls set (plus the pretty cool Michael Jordan to the Max disc) should just about cover all my Jordan/Bulls needs on DVD. . .

Offline JediMAC

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #326 on: May 27, 2004, 05:11 AM »
Funny, but I was just looking at that same Amazon page.  I'll probably pick it up there with some other stuff.  Didn't realize it was released before, but that's probably 'cause I didn't get into DVD buying until about a year and a half ago.  Definitely an awesome DVD.  I love that it compiles all his old videos into one comprehensive set here.   8)

Offline Brian

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #327 on: May 27, 2004, 09:10 AM »
Quote
On a related note, has anyone picked up the "Ultimate Jordan" DVD that came out late last year?  I meant to snag one, but waited too long and they seemed to all completely disappear from my local Targets and Walmarts...

I also picked this up back when it came out originally, and agree totally with Virex, it is well worth picking up....especially if you are a Jordan fan.  I always wanted to have something to watch, seeing Mike in his "glory days" again, plus its nice checking out the dunk highlights too.  I think sometimes people forget they way he flew in his younger days.  That Bulls disc set looks great too, I might have to pick that up.  I followed the Bulls so closely from 88 through all their championships, and that was some fun basketball to watch.

On a side note....it is really great that we can discuss players, teams, and b-ball in general here without it becoming an all out war.  It might sound cheezy, but its just nice how we can all admit whether or not our favorite player(s) and/or teams might have gotten away with something...or not...and not have to get all mad about it.  Just another reason why JD is so great, just a real nice community you guys run here.  Anyways...on the subject of Shaq, I noticed Sportscenter had a little segment this morning asking that if Shaq shot freethrows better (I think someone mentioned in the 70-80% range) if he would be considered the best player ever.  Although I will agree he is obviously the most dominant in the game now, and one of the best centers of all time, I think saying he is the "best player ever" is a slap in the face to many who have come and gone and played the game 100% all the time...in all aspects....Jordan, Bird, Magic are three of the more recent ones that come to mind, along with others from the past...Oscar Robertson, Wilt, Bill Russell, Dr. J, etc.  Any thoughts on this?

Offline Brian

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #328 on: May 27, 2004, 09:22 AM »
Oh...and congrats to the Pistons on a win last night, another hard fought game.  Although sometimes quite ugly b-ball, Pistons-Pacers seems to be a pretty good match up.  Also, congrats to the Magic on winning the lottery.  Everyone thinking they'll take Okafor?  It doesn't seem like the best draft this year, talent wise, but you never know how these players will turn out down the road.

Offline Scott

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Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #329 on: May 27, 2004, 03:54 PM »
Lakers Armor Is Tarnished

Good article, points out a bunch of good stuff, specifcally that a healthy Wolves Team and the Pistons could be the Lakers