Author Topic: NBA 2003/04  (Read 30180 times)

Offline FX-7

  • Jedi Initiate
  • *
  • Posts: 340
  • I'm a llama!
    • View Profile
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #330 on: May 27, 2004, 04:22 PM »
Go NUGGETS!  Oh wait, wake me when this one is over and the Lakers ride off into the sunset again ::)
Medical Droid Extrodinaire

Offline JediMAC

  • Pretty in Pink
  • Retired Staff Member
  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 14572
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #331 on: May 27, 2004, 06:31 PM »
On a side note....it is really great that we can discuss players, teams, and b-ball in general here without it becoming an all out war.

Yeah, as long as that Minnesota assturd stops calling my boy a rapist!   >:(   ;)

As for Shaq, no way I nominate him in the best player category, even with a much more respectable free throw shooting percentage.  Most dominant, maybe (either him or Wilt), but not best all around.  Best all around goes to a guy who can shoot, dribble, defend, pass, etc.  He's got to have the complete game, and not just throw down a lot of dunks due to his fortunate size.

Shaq could move himself higher up in the category if he kept in shape, and played 110% all the time, since that would likely lead to almost double his statistics for blocks and rebounds.  If he did that, then I'd consider moving him up the ladder a little.  But when a monster like him can only pull down 10 or 11 boards a game, and make a couple blocks a game, that's some serious underachieving there.

I'll admit his short game (non-dunks) around the basket has become much better over the years.  He's developed some nice touch inside with his short jump hooks and bank shots, to compliment the thunderous dunks.  His passing has also gotten a lot better as well.  But if a professional basketball player can't make a shot outside of 8 feet, he is not under consideration for "best ever" in my book.

Some of those other guys Brian mentioned definitely are though: Jordan, Magic, Bird, Oscar Robertson, Bill Russell, and of course... Kobe.   ;)

Quote
Good article, points out a bunch of good stuff, specifcally that a healthy Wolves Team and the Pistons could be the Lakers

Well, if Ralph Wiley says it, then it must be true...   ::)

Quote
if either the Minnesota Timberwolves or the Detroit Pistons were at their full-strength rosters, and sound of mind as well as body, each of them, it can be argued, could win the NBA title;

I would say the same about the Lakers.  If they were collectively of sound mind (which they rarely are), and body (which they weren't for about 2/3rds of this season), then I think they'd be three times as good as they are now.  I also contend that if Cassell and Hudson were both 100% healthy and playing well, thus elevating Minnesota's game, the Lakers would just counter and do the same.  The Lakers are never playing at, or even close to, 100%, so they always have more left in the tank if need be.  They play just enough to (usually) get the job done.  So if your guys were healthy and Minnesota was playing better, our guys would just "flip the switch" up another level and adjust their play accordingly.  Simple as that.   :-*

I do agree with the writer that Malone and Payton are way past their prime, and not doing all that much for our team (especially Payton).  But that doesn't make much of a difference to me really.  Like with Jordan and Pippen on both of the 90's Bulls' 3-peat teams, as long as we've got Kobe and Shaq, the rest of the pieces are interchangeable and expendable and we should continue to win regardless...
« Last Edit: May 27, 2004, 06:37 PM by JediMAC »

Offline Morgbug

  • Old
  • Jedi Guardian
  • *
  • Posts: 15990
  • mmm. pemmican.
    • View Profile
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #332 on: May 27, 2004, 11:00 PM »
Anyways...on the subject of Shaq, I noticed Sportscenter had a little segment this morning asking that if Shaq shot freethrows better (I think someone mentioned in the 70-80% range) if he would be considered the best player ever.  Although I will agree he is obviously the most dominant in the game now, and one of the best centers of all time, I think saying he is the "best player ever" is a slap in the face to many who have come and gone and played the game 100% all the time...in all aspects....Jordan, Bird, Magic are three of the more recent ones that come to mind, along with others from the past...Oscar Robertson, Wilt, Bill Russell, Dr. J, etc.  Any thoughts on this?

I'm with sweater boy here.  

Shaq is dominant, but that's simply a reflection of the game.  As we've commented, he gets away with bloody murder.  Yes, he is hacked to death, but what else do you do when a 300 lb behemoth shoves his ass into your chest?  It's an offensive foul in the first place.  That horse might have been beaten to death though.  

Shaq doesn't play very good defense though, something I would say the other mentioned players do.  I also don't think he runs the court very well.  Does he pass well?  Not exceptionally, certainly not in the league of Magic or Bird.  Given his size, where does his scoring average stack up alltime?  Hall of fame, sure, but not top 10 I'd guess.  

His free throw shooting cost him and allowed Jordan two titles in my estimation.  To his defense he's probably too busy doing videos and commercials and partying to work excessively hard on that anyway.  As before, the game is only marginally about basketball and largely about entertainment, so why bother?  Certainly it would have given him a few more scoring titles and I'd guess the biggest cost would have been Jordan's mystique.  Not knocking MJ at all, but he sure wouldn't have had the same mystique if the Bulls had failed to win a few of those titles.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2004, 01:04 AM by Morgbug »
Minivans: a sign of the apocalypse.

Offline Scott

  • Staff Member
  • Jedi Guardian
  • *
  • Posts: 18311
  • Get Some
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #333 on: May 28, 2004, 12:04 AM »
Just waiting for the smug bastards to come in and brag about how valiant Mr Rapist Model Citizen was today for attending his Rape Trial and playing out of his mind tonight

Best Moment: Cassell coming off the bench and nailing a 3
Worst Moment: Realizing that they would have swept the Lakers with a healthy 2nd team All-NBA Point Guard :'(
« Last Edit: May 28, 2004, 12:10 AM by OCB »

Offline JediMAC

  • Pretty in Pink
  • Retired Staff Member
  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 14572
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #334 on: May 28, 2004, 04:24 AM »
Worst Moment: Realizing that they would have swept the Lakers with a healthy 2nd team All-NBA Point Guard :'(

 ;D   :D   :P   ;D   :D   :P   :-*

That's some funny stuff there.  On the subject of Shaq, Kevin McHale was being interviewed on the top Sports radio show out here today, and he was absolutely beeming about how amazing Shaq is, despite the fact that he gets his ass fouled big time on nearly every single play.  Yeah - YOUR general manager said that!  What, is he trying to woo Shaq to MN, or sumthin'?   ???  Pretty bizarre...

As for his passing, I didn't really mean in the grand scheme of the NBA Brent, just relative to the other big men in the league.  I think he's led NBA centers in assists the last several years, and his overall court vision and ability to pass out of the double team and find the open guy has really gotten a lot better over the past couple years.  So I give him credit for that.  I also give him credit for solely focusing on Basketball nowadays too.  He's not doing all those videos, rap albums, movies, partying, and other miscellaneous B.S. distractions anymore.  Not for the last 5 years or so now, so that can't be held against him anymore either.  When he stopped all that crap, we started winning championships.

I also caught a stat tonight which was pretty pathetic - Shaq has never led the league in rebounding in any of his 11 years.  I already knew that, but still pretty mind boggling considering his size.  Pretty sure he's never led the league in blocked shots either.  But at least he's kicking it up a notch for the Playoffs this year.

As for the kid (and his biggest fan), he really only played one good quarter tonight.  Didn't do much in the first half, or even the fourth quarter, but his mind-blowing third quarter run is essentially what iced the game.  As for the whole court to court thing, ehh - it doesn't really impress me all that much.  The media gets a big kick out of it, but the bottom line is he's just sitting in a courthouse all day, then takes a few limos and a private jet, and he's pretty much back in time for the game, and ready to go.  I do think it's somewhat impressive that he can maintain his focus so well, and such a high level of play on those particular days, but all in all, it's not as amazing as the media's making it out to be.  Glad to see he's not letting that B.S. court stuff get to him though.  He's great at tuning it all out.

I don't know exactly why it is, but this series has just seemed rather boring to me so far.  I suppose that would be different if we were down 3-1, but it just doesn't seem like the Playoffs to me.  It's not getting me totally pumped, or having me on the edge of my seat like the Spurs series did, which is kind of a bummer.  I think Sacto would've had me pretty pumped up due to our rivalry over the past several years, but the Wolves just don't do much to get my blood boiling.  Not sure if the Pistons will either.  Oh well.   :-\

I'll see assturd and the rest of you on Saturday...   ;)

Offline Scott

  • Staff Member
  • Jedi Guardian
  • *
  • Posts: 18311
  • Get Some
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #335 on: May 28, 2004, 08:41 AM »
If you can honestly sit there and say Cassell would have no impact on this series then you really are a smug bastard ::)

Offline Jeff

  • Administrator
  • Jedi Council Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20185
  • i stay down with my demons
    • View Profile
    • www.JediDefender.com
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #336 on: May 28, 2004, 09:40 AM »
 :'(

I'm beginning to hate SoCal.

First, the stupid Angels in 2002... nice job defending your title by the way.
Then, the stupid Ducks in 2003... nice job defending your conf championship by the way.

Now, the stupid LAkers.

At least there's no NFL team in the LA/Anaheim area to beat the Vikings next year as they head to the Super Bowl, baby!

 :'(

Jeff
Editor-in-Chief  - www.JediDefender.com
Follow me on Twitter - @jedidefender / @jlsmentek

Offline Scott

  • Staff Member
  • Jedi Guardian
  • *
  • Posts: 18311
  • Get Some
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #337 on: May 28, 2004, 09:44 AM »
Well the Gophers did beat UCLA in '97 to go to the Final Four...otherwise :-X

Lest us not forget Red McCombs dangling the threat of relocating the Vikings to LA every couple of months...and the fact that the Lakers were ours to begin with.  My dad was telling me last week he was a huge Lakers fan and still will root for them :-X >:( stoopid dad ::)

Offline JediMAC

  • Pretty in Pink
  • Retired Staff Member
  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 14572
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #338 on: May 28, 2004, 11:55 AM »
If you can honestly sit there and say Cassell would have no impact on this series then you really are a smug bastard  ::)

Where the hell did I say that?  Of course he would.  I also said as he raised the level of Minnesota's play, the Lakers would just "flip the switch" and raise the level of their play up accordingly.  I think if Cassell and Hudson were healthy, it would make for a much better, more exciting, higher scoring, and competitive series.  But the Lakers would still win.  In 6 games, tops.   ;)

If you can honestly sit there and suggest that if Cassell were healthy that you'd sweep us, then you really are a smug bastard, and are likely addicted to a high profile drug of some sort...   ::)   So there.   :-*

Jeff, most SoCal'ers still root for one or both of our former NFL teams - The Rams and Raiders (like I do).  So feel free to toss the Rams title and the Raiders Conf. Championships in there too (you be quiet Mikey!).  Don't forget our WNBA Sparks won it all back to back as well...   :D

Scott, if I ever make it out to MN, maybe you could give me your pop's phone # so I could give him a buzz and maybe go grab a beer with him.  Sounds like a cool dude.   8)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2004, 11:59 AM by JediMAC »

Offline Scott

  • Staff Member
  • Jedi Guardian
  • *
  • Posts: 18311
  • Get Some
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #339 on: May 28, 2004, 12:31 PM »
So the Lakers right now are coasting? ::)  No way, they are beatable and I sure hope if the Wolves don't do it the Pistons do as does 99% of America

Offline Scott

  • Staff Member
  • Jedi Guardian
  • *
  • Posts: 18311
  • Get Some
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #340 on: May 28, 2004, 12:40 PM »
Marc Stein agrees with me...and kudos to the healthy Wolves, they aren't making excuses for playing without the injured.  A healthy Hudson probably would have meant a healthy Cassell too since there would have been someone to give Cassell a break and provide some O off the bench...

They wouldn't have swept but I really think that it would be at least 2-2 and maybe even 3-1 Wolves right now :'(  That's what sucks about it
« Last Edit: May 28, 2004, 12:41 PM by OCB »

Offline Scott

  • Staff Member
  • Jedi Guardian
  • *
  • Posts: 18311
  • Get Some
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #341 on: May 28, 2004, 04:11 PM »

Offline JediMAC

  • Pretty in Pink
  • Retired Staff Member
  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 14572
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #342 on: May 28, 2004, 04:14 PM »
Marc Stein agrees with me...

What is this, the W & P thread, where you have to quote sources to back up your opinion, especially when it's somewhat off?  Want me to start putting up ALL the links of ALL the people and articles that agree with ME?!  Yeah, I didn't think so.   ;D

Like I said, with your two point guards healthy, I think you would've definitely played us tougher, and maybe even won a second game, but definitely not the series.  Feel free to keep trying to convince me otherwise though.  You're about 1% of the way there so far...   :-*

Offline Scott

  • Staff Member
  • Jedi Guardian
  • *
  • Posts: 18311
  • Get Some
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #343 on: May 28, 2004, 04:15 PM »
Shut up...or I'll have Chris Berry ban you, he always has liked me more than you...bitch :-* ;D

Offline JediMAC

  • Pretty in Pink
  • Retired Staff Member
  • Jedi Sentinel
  • *
  • Posts: 14572
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender
Re: The NBA Playoffs!
« Reply #344 on: May 28, 2004, 04:29 PM »
Brian?  Where'd you go bud?  We need your voice of reason back in this thread, to shut up this Minnesota assturd who keeps blabbering ridiculous nonsense, and always wants to have the final say...   ::)

Please come back and remind us how well we all play together here...  And how the Lakers really ARE the best team on the planet, especially when they feel like playing hard.   ;)

- M

P.S.  Spree sucks.