Author Topic: MLB 2004  (Read 38881 times)

Offline JediMAC

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #525 on: October 24, 2004, 03:15 PM »
Can't we let the curse discussion go now?  It's like asking someone if they believe in ghosts...  Some believe in the supernatural, some don't.

But yeah, a Dent dinger and fielding gaffe by Buckner I don't think have anything to do with Babe Ruth personally.  That's just baseball, bad luck, choking, whatever...

Donnie Moore gave up a game winning homerun to Hindu when the Angels were one strike away from going to the World Series back in '86.  Then the poor fella went and committed suicide a little later on because of it.  But the Angels don't have a Donnie Moore curse, as they won it all two years ago (granted we're far from the history of the Sox).

I think "the curse" is just a fun little way to tease the Sox and their fans, and explain anything and everything bad that ever happens to them.  That's all.  If they lose to the Cards this year, I don't think it'll be because of the curse.  It'll be because the Cards are a better team (which should've had home field advantage in this series...)

Anyway, fun slugfest to watch last night.  Hopefully the Cards bounce back tonight!
« Last Edit: October 24, 2004, 03:16 PM by JediMAC »

Offline chuckles

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #526 on: October 24, 2004, 04:50 PM »

Keep denying the obvious Sox-homer.  Truth hurts don't it?

What truth? You, and the rest of those that believe in a made up curse, hardly makes it the truth.


Quote
Can't we let the curse discussion go now?

Aww, come on. We're having such a good time here.  ;)

Offline paploo

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #527 on: October 24, 2004, 05:07 PM »
if anyone really looks at the babe ruth career, he was sold from the red sox to the yankees because the owner could not afford him anymore (stupid musicals). the yankees promised babe a managing career for many years, then at the end of his career they offered him 1 dollar in his final season with ny and told him he would never manage a yankees team. after that he went to the braves, who promised him a managing career and he never got that either. so if the babe was going to haunt or curse anyone it would either be the yankees for slapping him in the face after so many great years or the braves for flat out lying to him. I personally think the curse idea is stupid, the idea was the work of a dumb boston sports writer after the sox lost the 86 world series.

personally i would love to see a salary cap and a salary minimum so all teams have a chance of winning a world series. the introduction of the wild card really helped baseball because it kept a lot of markets in the playoff hunt, when in the past they would not have been. I am a huge sox fan, but i firmly believe there is an unfair advantage for teams in giant markets like boston and new york
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Offline Holographic Elvis

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #528 on: October 24, 2004, 05:16 PM »
personally i would love to see a salary cap and a salary minimum so all teams have a chance of winning a world series. the introduction of the wild card really helped baseball because it kept a lot of markets in the playoff hunt, when in the past they would not have been. I am a huge sox fan, but i firmly believe there is an unfair advantage for teams in giant markets like boston and new york

Man, how many times (in several different threads) do we need to explain this whole cap thing to people?  A cap won't help baseball.  Players are still gonna go where they want to go, and that is to teams like Boston and the Yankees who can win every year.  Do you think someone's gonna pick the Diamondbacks over the Yankees if he wants to win a championship?  Someone in this thread already explained why a cap works so well in football and why it won't work in baseball (or hockey for that matter) so do some reading and you'll see for yourself. 

Online Jeff

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #529 on: October 24, 2004, 10:12 PM »
Dang.

I missed both of the Game 7s, but sounds like they were great.

I still can't believe that the Sox pulled it off, or that Ortiz was the MVP.  Crazy.  Baseball history...

What a wild game last night, looks like tonight is going to get crazy too...

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Offline paploo

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #530 on: October 24, 2004, 11:51 PM »


Man, how many times (in several different threads) do we need to explain this whole cap thing to people?  A cap won't help baseball.  Players are still gonna go where they want to go, and that is to teams like Boston and the Yankees who can win every year.  Do you think someone's gonna pick the Diamondbacks over the Yankees if he wants to win a championship?  Someone in this thread already explained why a cap works so well in football and why it won't work in baseball (or hockey for that matter) so do some reading and you'll see for yourself. 
if each team can only spend 100 million, for example, once the teams spend that much then they cant spend anymore. they will need to spend the money they have more wisely. that is what i am getting at. i understand how salary caps work, and i understand players would prefer to go to ny or boston over kc for example. you can bet your sweet A** that the yankees are going to spend whatever they need to spend to not be made to look foolish again...even if that means 300 million. Teams like toronto and tampa cant afford that, hence the need for a salary cap. I understand players have contracts that need to be honored, but mlb might need to say, for example, in the year 2008 teams will need to limit their payroll to 100 million or whatever it could be. that way teams can plan for this. A salary cap can work and probably should be implimented in the next 5 or 7 years
« Last Edit: October 24, 2004, 11:53 PM by paploo »
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Offline Jim

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #531 on: October 25, 2004, 07:46 AM »


Man, how many times (in several different threads) do we need to explain this whole cap thing to people?  A cap won't help baseball.  Players are still gonna go where they want to go, and that is to teams like Boston and the Yankees who can win every year.  Do you think someone's gonna pick the Diamondbacks over the Yankees if he wants to win a championship?  Someone in this thread already explained why a cap works so well in football and why it won't work in baseball (or hockey for that matter) so do some reading and you'll see for yourself. 
if each team can only spend 100 million, for example, once the teams spend that much then they cant spend anymore. they will need to spend the money they have more wisely. that is what i am getting at. i understand how salary caps work, and i understand players would prefer to go to ny or boston over kc for example. you can bet your sweet A** that the yankees are going to spend whatever they need to spend to not be made to look foolish again...even if that means 300 million. Teams like toronto and tampa cant afford that, hence the need for a salary cap. I understand players have contracts that need to be honored, but mlb might need to say, for example, in the year 2008 teams will need to limit their payroll to 100 million or whatever it could be. that way teams can plan for this. A salary cap can work and probably should be implimented in the next 5 or 7 years

Some people will not buy into the cap issue, but I totally agree with you.  Money is killing the game, and to see an average salary with incentives added would definitely make the players appreciate what they do a little more, and possibly give a little more effort on the field.  Sure Arod and Jeter fill the stands and bring fans, and advertisent and TV add in, but you know who is paying for it?  You and me.  Its to the point where the middle class cannot afford to go to many games each year.  I went a couple weeks back and it cost my wife and I over $200.  If pay was more even, and teams were more competitive, you would see more and more players wanting to play in there home towns, most of which are small market teams.  You can sit here and argue all day with me about the cap not working, but I will disagree til I die.  But none of that is important at the moment.  Whats important is the Sox are up 2 to zip, but need not let there guard down.  The Cards have all the ability to do to us what we did to the Yanks.  On a side note, Torre was a real class act mentioning Wakefield the other night after the game. 


Offline Mikey D

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #532 on: October 25, 2004, 07:56 AM »
8 errors in 2 games and the Sox still win?  Never thought it possible, but like the cliche says, that's why they play the games.  Only 2 more wins to the event everyone in Boston has been waiting for for much too long.  Unfortunetely, if they win, I think it's going to be overshadowed by the "celebration". 
Common sense isn't so common

Offline Jim

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #533 on: October 25, 2004, 10:42 AM »
8 errors in 2 games and the Sox still win?  Never thought it possible, but like the cliche says, that's why they play the games.  Only 2 more wins to the event everyone in Boston has been waiting for for much too long.  Unfortunetely, if they win, I think it's going to be overshadowed by the "celebration". 

I think your right Mike.  I think the final festivities are going to give this town a bad name :(  I am really glad I am no where near the city.  A sad point though is the fact that the majority of the people who caused problems the other night are out of state college kids and not even locals. I say hit them where it hurts and expel them.  We'll see how pissed those parents will be when they are holding  a 50K college bill for there expelled son/daughter. 

Online Jeff

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #534 on: October 25, 2004, 12:25 PM »
If pay was more even, and teams were more competitive, you would see more and more players wanting to play in there home towns, most of which are small market teams.  You can sit here and argue all day with me about the cap not working, but I will disagree til I die. 

Ah, but the fundamental flaw in a salary cap is revenue sharing.  Until baseball has a revenue sharing deal like football does, where 1 network buys the rights for ALL teams and everyone gets a share a cap will not work in baseball.

Now, being from Minnesota, I'd love to see a small markets get more competative.  I just don't think a cap will do it.

Lets look at some numbers.  The Yankees average 30mil a year for endorsements on TV/Radio because of their network.  There is NO way that the Twins could ever generate that much dough.

Even if the Twins started their own network (they did, and it failed miserably) they could NEVER generate the cash that the Yankees do putting the games on TV.  The large market teams make MORE money than the small market teams do.  End of story.

Revenue Sharing in football ensures that even if the Arizona Cardnals suck and never sell out a game, they will still earn 30-40millions in TV/endorsement cash alone.  You just don't get that security in baseball.

Let's say that there was a cap of $120 million put in place.  Do you really think that Tampa would suddenly start spending $120 million on payroll?  NO WAY.  All you'd do is cap the Yankees and Red Sox from being GREAT, they'd just be REALLY GOOD.

If we were to impose a salary cap in baseball, the only thing it would do is bring down player salaries, in that players might agree to take less money in order to sign with a competative team (the way it happens in teh NBA where guys take the minimum to play for a great team).

I do NOT think a salary cap would make all teams more competative unkless you find a way to pool all the TV/radio money from all teams and then split it up.  Teams like the Twins and the Devil Rays will never spend cash unless they know it is safe and they won't lose money.  (this is the same reason why I think a cap won't work in hockey).

Anyway, just my $0.02 on the matter.

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Offline Scott

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #535 on: October 25, 2004, 12:42 PM »
Bingo, Revenue Sharing is the key to the whole thing.  And while the Yankees are villified for having this exorbinant payroll the Sox are just as bad

60 million difference is a lot but how about 130 million between the Twins and Yankees, they could have gone out and bought a slugger in Right Field and 3 starting pitchers and a 1st Baseman

Oakland and Minnesota show how to do it, scoutdevelop your talent to compete, and trade stars for minor leaguers before they become free agents.  The Sox are reaping the benifits of David Ortiz

The sad thing is, Steinbrenner and the rest of the teams with regional sports TV deals will NEVER give them up, revenue sharing will never happen and as such the greedy pigs will continue to dominate the upper tier with the smart little guys breaking through every now and then.

I've heard the idea floated that there be a new division made a Major Major League and the B-Listers sort of how Soccer is run in around the world.  I'd hate to ever see that happen but without revenue sharing I think its a definite possibility

Offline Holographic Elvis

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #536 on: October 25, 2004, 01:29 PM »
The arguments made for the cap hold no water, nor does the notion that with players will sign w/ their "home town" team.  Do you have any clue just how many foreign players are in the majors now?  I almost never see guys going and signing w/ their "home town" team, so you mean to tell me that instituting a cap will make them?  That's one of the more ridiculous things I've read in this thread.  A cap will not work in baseball and it won't work in hockey.  Too many uninformed people hear cap and think it guarantees that crappy teams will suddenly become competitive.  You still gotta have the players genious and I don't see any marquee free agents running to go sign w/ Tampa Bay. 
« Last Edit: October 25, 2004, 01:29 PM by Holographic Elvis »

Offline Scott

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #537 on: October 25, 2004, 01:46 PM »
Well, people would sign with Tampa if there was a chance they could win it all.  Which is why they sign and want to play for the Yankees.  A cap isn't going to work without revenue sharing as Jeff said and more revenue sharing (there is a small form of that in place with many loop holes) isn't going to happen

The sad thing to me is that the owners are willing to piss on each other without thinking of the overall big picture.  National TV deals with right to all games through FOX and ABC/ESPN would be worth billions as well.  But, like I said, there is NO WAY in hell Steinbrenner would ever give up his cable deal for the sake of the Tampa Bay Devil Rays, if they can't survive then too bad

Offline paploo

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #538 on: October 25, 2004, 06:43 PM »
with the cap they need to have a reasonable salary minimum too. And i think a player will play in tampa for example when the  yankees and the sox and those type of teams have filled their roster with what the cap would allow...why because i dont think they would not play then to play in tampa. I use tampa as an example only no disrespect to the d-rays.
The reason teams like KC and toronto and the mighty expos dont have cash for salaries...because they cant win and no one wanted to see them. if they were competitive they would have some butts in the seats. remember when the expos were good...they had a good fan base. It would take a lot of time and careful planning, but it obviously can work because it works in other sports.

Right now in a lot of markets you have to pay 1 dollar for the yankees yes network. you dont have a choice. as a sox fan i find this appalling, and if i had to pay it in my town i would cancel my cable and get dish network or something that didnt  require me to pay for yes. i am not going to contribute to the over-priced salary of a-fraud
« Last Edit: October 25, 2004, 06:44 PM by paploo »
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Offline Holographic Elvis

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Re: It's Outta Here! The JD Official 2004 Baseball Thread
« Reply #539 on: October 25, 2004, 11:59 PM »
with the cap they need to have a reasonable salary minimum too. And i think a player will play in tampa for example when the  yankees and the sox and those type of teams have filled their roster with what the cap would allow...why because i dont think they would not play then to play in tampa. I use tampa as an example only no disrespect to the d-rays.
The reason teams like KC and toronto and the mighty expos dont have cash for salaries...because they cant win and no one wanted to see them. if they were competitive they would have some butts in the seats. remember when the expos were good...they had a good fan base. It would take a lot of time and careful planning, but it obviously can work because it works in other sports.

Right now in a lot of markets you have to pay 1 dollar for the yankees yes network. you dont have a choice. as a sox fan i find this appalling, and if i had to pay it in my town i would cancel my cable and get dish network or something that didnt  require me to pay for yes. i am not going to contribute to the over-priced salary of a-fraud

Sorry, but if I'm a player and the Sox and Yanks are "capped-out", I'm not signing w/ Tampa.  It's a crappy team in a crappy dome in a crappy area of Florida.  I'd much rather play somewhere else.  And like I said, no one is gonna go play for a team like Tampa until they establish a trend of success.  A cap guarantees NOTHING.  Next topic.