Author Topic: Stormtroopers and Clones... LFL's Mess.  (Read 887 times)

Offline Jesse James

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Stormtroopers and Clones... LFL's Mess.
« on: May 12, 2004, 08:22 PM »
This has been widely debated over the years, and we've touched on it here partly I think, but in the recent Insider (#76) there's an interesting note from LFL about the situation.

Lucas has always said he intended Clones to = Stormtroopers, but some discrepencies in the films, EU, etc.,  have said otherwise.

Lucas still holds that Clones = Stormies to him, but he's seemingly (or so was said in Insider) backed off that stance somewhat and has himself explained the height and voice differences of teh films away...

Insider says that Lucas feels that new hosts were used (an early fan theory) and thus the variances in height and voices, but also that the process by which hosts are picked is politicized and subsequently less thann "perfect" hosts are chosen.  A high ranking officer's nephew is chosen based n the officer's position rather than the young man's personal military skill.

So Lucas is taking a somewhat fan-based stance, ok, cool...

He goes on further to say though that the EU's NOT incorrect and that conscriptions, volunteers, and other sentient humans are within the ranks as well...  IE: Kyle Katarn, Davin Felth, etc...

It's interesting to see Lucasfilm themselves back off the idea that "They're Clones, that's what I always intended", which Lucas has more or less claimed, and now that they're trying a more EU friendly approach.

I'm more in tune with the new "answer" as it were...  I still debate the validity of cloning at all.  Personally I think Clone ranks are thinned down dramatically (my persnal preferential thought oon the matter), and are hardly used anywhere.  Deemed "creepy" even by some troops perhaps?

The article's interesting nonetheless.

And irregardless, nobody's answer is canon still...  The ranks aren't proven to be either on-film and I highly doubt they are ever actually explained in a canon fashion.  Suits me, but it leaves some interesting theories by both fans and Lucasfilm itself.  
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Offline Jedi Jim

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Re: Stormtroopers and Clones... LFL's Mess.
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2004, 11:18 AM »
That might explain why Leia says "Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper?" to Luke in the detention block.

Offline Angry Ewok

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Re: Stormtroopers and Clones... LFL's Mess.
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2004, 02:32 AM »
I've always looked at Stormtroopers as being humans - drafted/volunteers... Not clones. I believe the clones were all but destroyed during the Clone Wars. Once all of the Clones were used up, humans were drafted - thus making it a more 'Civil' Galactic War.  ;)

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Stormtroopers and Clones... LFL's Mess.
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2004, 05:44 PM »
That's how I've looked at it too Brad, but I'm keeping an open mind to the possibility of some Clones in there.

I don't agree with the "They're incompetent Clones though" excuse for their aim.

They blasted the bejesus out of Rebels on Hoth and the Tantive IV, Obi-Wan remarked upon their skill with blasters...  People overblow that BS abut them not hitting Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, etc...  It's stupid.  They're the heroes, they're not gonna die in the film unless it's pertinent to the story.  No need t explain it then.

Inferior Clones = Inferior Marksmanship is just such a silly answer...  

To me, till I see some canon to the contrary I'm gonna stick with recruits too, but I've got my contingency plan which follows LFL's current "official" stance with there being a mix of recruits and Clones.

I don't know about draftees though...  I think there may be some, especially in the non-combatant roles like Technicians, etc.  

I think the Empire's a master of propoganda...  I envision them arousing anti-alien sentiment throughout the galaxy, and rallying support from millions of systems.  Even sometimes non-human worlds.  I like to think of them as promising a better future to the galaxy...  Taking that which is in a shambles and bringing order to it.  

Cracking down on piracy
Cracking down on lawless worlds
Cracking down on the "Separatist Worlds" which have multiplied and include human worlds like Alderaan and such
Cracking down on Commerce (Controlling it themselves)
Cracking down on Bounty Hunting/Vigilanties
Cracking down on big Industry (In their pocket, or you're against us)

There's a cutscene in the TIE Fighter video game that really embodies what I see as the true "Vision" the Empire portrays to the Galactic public.  They bring an end to the Sepan Civil War (2 human worlds warring amongst themselves) and offer to these 2 worlds the Empire, which will help them rebuild and organize.  They're offered "paradise" within the Empire's Umbrella.

That kind of enticement's the same logic that won the German population's support in World War 2, even if you didn't always agree with the means to the ends.  

I find that parallel to our own world intriguing.  

So I envision TONS of support to the Empire...  It's more remote worlds, fronteir worlds, and those which held the ideals of the Republic above the peace the "New Order" would bring (and worlds which are subjucated because of their resources or alien races inhabiting them) which are the rebellious planets...  And then there's worlds with populations that are torn between one or the other.

There's some good parallels to draw on in the U.S. Civil War and War for Independance as well.  Very good history to look back on.
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Offline CloneF13Y35

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Re: Stormtroopers and Clones... LFL's Mess.
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2004, 02:47 PM »
i always thought that as far as the original trilogy stormtropers may have been a combination of Clones and conscripted human soldiers. There's no telling how many clones could still be made from Jango's old dna after however many years and with the Empire growing, they would need more bodies to be troopers.
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Offline DoctorPadawan

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Re: Stormtroopers and Clones... LFL's Mess.
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2004, 10:49 AM »
Just a rather humorous way of looking at things: I've been of the opinion that all the Stormtroopers were clones (at least since we found that out in AOTC) but that their rather, ummm, questionable military skills in the OT compared to their effectiveness in the PT can be attributed to Jango's death and bad cloning techniques.

It's like that Michael Keaton movie where he keeps cloning himself in a way, or on a more basic level, a photocopier.  Generation 1 were made directly from Jango and thus were the closest to his skill level.  Well, Jango dies and they no longer have the host body they need (I'd assume they still had some Jango-DNA on file they could use for a few years).  So what happens when they run out of Jango?  

In my mind they either: A-take DNA from Boba Fett, since he's a pure genetic replication of Jango in the first place or B-take DNA from a first generation Clone Trooper.  Since I don't think Boba would be going along with option A, B is their only option if they want to keep the same host.

The analogy of the Keaton movie and the photocopier comes into this because as everyone knows, when you make a copy of a copy, the new copy isn't exactly all that great.  In the Keaton movie, by the time they get to number 3 or 4, that clone is completely batsh!t insane and is not functioning on a normal level.  

I think the Stormtroopers in the OT reflect this.  They were once really good, but when you copy something over and over at numbers that are more than likely quite high given Palpatine's ego and need to subvert everyone to his will, they're just not going to live up to the original versions.  Thus, the Clones in the OT are the equivalent of that sixth generation bootleg of Prince's "Black Album" or The Beach Boys' "Shine" you have sitting in your tape collection; the one that you can make do with but you'd rather have a fully-mastered digital version of to get the full effect.

Personally, I'd love to see an EU short story about a Clone/Stormtrooper who functions on a mental and emotional level akin to the "strange" clone in the Keaton movie, but that's just me. ;D