Author Topic: Jedi in the Cantina  (Read 909 times)

Offline Thomas Grey

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Jedi in the Cantina
« on: July 1, 2004, 04:40 PM »
I assume that during the period 'A New Hope' occurs that seeing a jedi or someone that wields a lightsaber is rare. Why is the reaction downplayed after Ben slashes off Pondo's arm? I'd think someone would say, "I thought they were extinct" or "I didn't think there were any more jedis."... What's the deal with this?
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Jedi in the Cantina
« Reply #1 on: July 1, 2004, 04:49 PM »
I think after seeing him chop someone's arm off, they all decided it was in their best interet to keep out of it.  :)

That. or if they did have a comment to make, they decided to keep it to themselves since the cantina is a "wretched hive of scum and villainy" after all and loose lips sink ships and potential payouts.  

I doubt any of the denizens of the Cantina were really going to get involved, except for that Kubaz spy that eventually ratted them out to the Imps.

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Offline Jesse James

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Re: Jedi in the Cantina
« Reply #2 on: July 1, 2004, 05:24 PM »
Garrouff Lafoe actually goes from the bar to tell the Stormies right away...  He can briefly be seen taking in the fiasco.

Others do take notice too...  Staring, silently, for a moment...

I agree with Nataku that they're backing off then because they feel it's in their best interest.  Those there old enough to remember Jedi clearly maybe know better than to step on toes, and anyone else would be leary of making a negative move towards our heroes because they just watched 2 armed men who had the proverbial drop on one oold man lose an arm and some guts to him in one rather quick motion.

I remember being at a bar one night and watching a little, unassuming man take down 3 rather large guys...  Nobody said anything, nobody did anything...  The 3 guys, who were sorta dicks, got what they asked for, and left licking their wounds dealt them by the guy.  :)  Felt similar to me...  haha
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Offline Thomas Grey

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Re: Jedi in the Cantina
« Reply #3 on: July 1, 2004, 10:14 PM »
I think what I'm getting at is that the stature and respect that a jedi deserves died with the old practice. I would think that they would live on in lore or stories at least and for some it would be hard to accept that they actually exist. They obviously do not want to get involved due to the display Obi-Wan puts on.

As far as the informant goes, he is reporting what? If it's that a jedi has appeared or exists, wouldn't be in the Imperial Trooper's best interest to report it to Vader? I don't know, I think the scene is great, but the reaction of the crowd could be more shocked in my opinion. They are used to violence, but a lightsaber & a jedi being there seems pretty rare. It also would have foreshadowed how important or revered the jedi used to be. But these are villany & scum and they trade horror stories. Shock isn't in their vocabulary. I just thought it was a moment that was important because it's the first jedi public appearance in a long time...
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Offline LandotheScoundrel

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Re: Jedi in the Cantina
« Reply #4 on: July 7, 2004, 10:29 AM »
Imagine you're in some seedy place where everyone is armed to the teeth. There's incidents every day where someone gets shot, stabbed, etc. Its all just business. You see a scuffle in the corner, where two guys pull guns on some old geezer. He whips out an antique katana and cuts off the arm of one of his assailants. The two guys turn tail and run. Would you automatically assume that the old guy is a samurai, just because he has an antique katana?

There were lots and lots of jedi over the span of their order, and a massive number of them died over the course of a few years on many different worlds. I'm sure there's plenty of lightsabers around the galaxy. And since lightsabers aren't very well respected anymore—Han seems convinced that the blaster is the way to go—the cantina scum probably figured that anyone who would come in waving a sword around must be a crazy bastard. Now, if Ben started force throwing stuff around, and using all sorts of force powers, then the crowd might get a little curious.

Just the way I've always thought of it.
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Re: Jedi in the Cantina
« Reply #5 on: July 7, 2004, 10:54 PM »
My take involves where I believe Lucas' mind was at the time SW was written, assuming he had in his existing backstory a timeline similar the official one of today, that these last warriors, relics of a forgotten era, were a somewhat allegorical reference to the mid-to-late '70's mindset of negative opinions towards soldiers (veterans, specifically).

Lucas has played with the anti SE Asia conflict and big-government themes as far back as THX1138. American Graffiti plays like a goodbye to the period lost to it, and then that dead horse is continually kicked in More American Graffiti. It’s apparent all the way through Star Wars into Jedi, where he has specifically called the Ewok victory over the industrialized Empire a direct reference to Vietnam. (And not a very pro-American view, obviously).

It may be nothing, but looking back at the cantina, in a world where the Jedi have been portrayed as outdated and villainous (using the assumed Ep3 direction), most onlookers probably wouldn’t look on in shock or disbelief, but with indifference and maybe contempt, similar to the attitudes many took towards veterans in the period Lucas was writing his drafts.

Just a thought.

Offline Thomas Grey

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Re: Jedi in the Cantina
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2004, 10:40 AM »
That's pretty deep Tydirium. I am not sure I was looking to get that involved in the subliminal references to historical events and the human condition... I like your ideas though.

I guess in a place like the cantina, this could be true. But I would say that if the Jedi are viewed as relics and outlaws, that view was created by the empire (calling a spade a spade...). So when the evil dictatorship of the universe began to unfold, people were either sold the idea through Nazi-esque propaganda or they kept quiet out of fear. The Jedi were the peace bringers, they upheld the law and they worked within a code that was respectful and good for the most part. They got a bad rap becuase the council had corrupt members that cursed them for their meddling. We know the Trade Federation abhored them and those that worked behind the scenes with the Trade Fed. also began to buy into the idea that the Jedi were meddlesome and to be wary of them and their kind.

The people that knew of them and that revered them were shut in and went underground. I would think that the rebel alliance told the legends of the Jedi and had hopes of their return. Rogues and villanous types were probably apt to view the Jedi as 'bad' due to the nature of their business.

The one that says something to me is Han Solo. He never saw the Jedi work and to him they are like mythology. He has been conditioned to believe in the concrete 'blaster at his side' and faith has been cast away. It is good that he begins to show his faith as his time with Luke and the rebels goes on...
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Offline Scott

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Re: Jedi in the Cantina
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2004, 11:21 AM »
Wow what a great analysis Jared...very cool but the one point I've been saying for a few years is that "the backstory" and plan for the whole OT was never there.  Lucas has overstated his grand vision a few times and I find that laughable.  That doesn't change the fact that he did know the Jedi were once Soldiers who had fought in many Wars.  Here's an old Hermit living in a shack on a backwater planet who was at one time one of the greatest Jedi of all time.  To say he's been neglected, spat upon and treated like a Vietnam vet is a pretty good analogy