Author Topic: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...  (Read 43095 times)

Offline McMetal

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #495 on: July 16, 2012, 08:45 AM »
eBay is my second job, and I can confirm that there is NO LEGITIMATE WAY for any seller to find out what your highest bid is before the auction ends. It is not possible.

I have had many auctions end with me winning at my exact highest bid. As Bill pointed out, this is because someone bid just below me at the last second and pushed my winning bid to its max based on the increment for that pricepoint.

I think shilling, much like scalping in the toy community, is one of those things that is grossly overhyped. It does happen, I'm sure, but there is always an inherent risk that comes with not knowing how much to bid without going OVER the highest bid. I can't speak to "hacking" and so forth but I suspect eBay, like Google, has an entire team of super-geeks paid to figure out all that stuff.
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Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #496 on: July 16, 2012, 09:59 AM »
There are illegitimate ways to manipulate ebay. I believe it is possible to write a snipping robot that will up the bid until it wins. Then it retracts the last bid via the seller killing the last bid. It's done automatically. I bet with a little research, I could find such a robot.
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Online BillCable

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #497 on: July 16, 2012, 10:21 AM »
Seems like that'd be really obvious in bid history, though... especially since retracted bids are recorded.
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Offline JediJman

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #498 on: July 16, 2012, 12:03 PM »
Seems like that'd be really obvious in bid history, though... especially since retracted bids are recorded.

Exactly.  If you saw multiple bids in the history, then I think you've got shenanigans.  I don't know how it could erase the history from Ebay as well.  I'll also note that I can't recall the last time I won an auction and did NOT see someone else bidding it up in the last few seconds.
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Offline MattCBR

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #499 on: July 17, 2012, 12:53 AM »
Thanks for all the replies, I'm obviously not going to lose sleep over it, but I've always suspected shilling was possible.

Guys spend endless hours to hack their favorite online RPG game to either take advantage of other players or even the game it's self by having the program play your high level character for you all day gaining you experience, loot, and levels.

Considering that, it's not far fetched there'd be people out there to write shilling programs or even snipping programs to make money.... Ebay can't complain because their sellers are getting top dollar (and they in turn get higher returns)... it's a mutually advantageous relationship, and most buyers are none the wiser.
 

Offline Rob

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #500 on: July 17, 2012, 01:30 AM »
Ebay can't complain because their sellers are getting top dollar (and they in turn get higher returns)... it's a mutually advantageous relationship, and most buyers are none the wiser.

Ebay most definitely can complain.  If they allowed that type of behavior to persist, it would hurt the reputation of their website and reduce their traffic.  I would be shocked if they knowingly allowed this sort of stuff.  To the contrary, they have explicit policies against shill bidding.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 01:30 AM by Rob »

Offline MattCBR

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #501 on: July 18, 2012, 12:15 AM »
thanks for the policy link. I'd report it, but I think I got a good deal on the figures even if I got shilled.

Ebay saying shilling is illegal is like the police saying speeding is illegal... without shilling and speeders... both would make less money:)


Offline JediJman

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #502 on: July 18, 2012, 12:48 AM »
I have found Ebay to be VERY hands off on this kind of thing.  They write up policies to say they don't tolerate this or that and that they will protect your purchase...that's all just to make you feel good about using them.  I have notified them about fraudulent practices before and they do just what you'd expect - "we will look into it" and then nothing changes.  Make no mistake, they are in the game to make money just like everyone else.   I don't think they are promoting behaviors that cheat buyers, but they clearly have a hands off approach to any kind of customer service or investigation into bad sellers. 
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Offline MattCBR

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #503 on: July 18, 2012, 03:00 AM »
+1, I've had two blatant instances of attempted fraud on me... one where a guy bought a motorcycle fairing from me and then attempted to return his original broken fairing and say the one I shipped him was broke... the second theif sold me a broken new Amplifier in the box that was guaranteed to work and attempted to back out of his own return policy and keep all my money.

Both lost their cases with paypal and I got my money... however; when I contacted e-bay to remove the false bad feedback off my profile they left and punish/ban the accounts of the clearly bad e-bayers... they said "they'd look into it"

Needless to say the bad feedback never got removed AND the two e-bayers never got banned (after multiple tries)... one did end up ending his account after getting swamped with bad feedback, and the other guy is still racking up bad feedback every five purchases or sells just about lol.

E-bay sucks, but at least paypal has good investigations and I've always had them find the truth, see through the B.S., and handle cases promptly and effectively.

Offline Dan

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #504 on: July 19, 2012, 09:44 PM »
Shilling is definately a real phenomenon though- I had an auction a year or so ago where 5 minutes before the end of an auction my bid was pushed up to the max, passed, then the high bidder "canceled" the last bid, making mine the winner. It looked a little fishy, as the other bidder had only 1 feedback, from that same seller. I went back in to the 2nd bidders history, and found they had retracted multiple winning bids, and I am sure they were for the same seller. Long story short, they get a second account set up and used it to run up bids. I refused to pay for the item, explaining to ebay by phone it was very clear they had a case of fraud. I never heard about it again.

Offline JediJman

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #505 on: July 19, 2012, 11:17 PM »
Shilling is definately a real phenomenon though- I had an auction a year or so ago where 5 minutes before the end of an auction my bid was pushed up to the max, passed, then the high bidder "canceled" the last bid, making mine the winner. It looked a little fishy, as the other bidder had only 1 feedback, from that same seller. I went back in to the 2nd bidders history, and found they had retracted multiple winning bids, and I am sure they were for the same seller. Long story short, they get a second account set up and used it to run up bids. I refused to pay for the item, explaining to ebay by phone it was very clear they had a case of fraud. I never heard about it again.

I had a similar experience with a Kube chase - can't remember which one.  I recall watching the bids pass my minimum, then was shocked to see the email confirming that I won.  I ended up buying it though because it was still a good price.
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #506 on: July 23, 2012, 12:09 PM »
I had a similar experience with a Kube chase - can't remember which one.  I recall watching the bids pass my minimum, then was shocked to see the email confirming that I won.  I ended up buying it though because it was still a good price.

Yes, but just think:  you could have gotten it for an even better price.  Of course, it only matters to the buyer whether the price is right or not..

Offline solrac

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #507 on: August 7, 2012, 09:59 PM »
I think if it got out that eBay was involved there would be a class action law suit and they would be in some real problems.
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Offline JediJman

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #508 on: August 10, 2012, 07:47 AM »
I think if it got out that eBay was involved there would be a class action law suit and they would be in some real problems.

How would Ebay be "involved" though from an evidence standpoint.  They don't condone it and their interface prevents it to some extent.  If someone else is writing code to circumvent that, then they could be doing more to fight that, but it makes a third party liable - not Ebay.  I think they're just fine from a legal standpoint.  I would be much more afraid of possible reaction from the general public if news of this hit the mainstream media - that could seriously hurt their transactions even if it's an extremely rare occurrance.
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Offline Dan

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Re: Everything eBay! Scams, questions, etc...
« Reply #509 on: August 12, 2012, 08:23 AM »
I think ebay could be held liable to some degree even just for turning the other way when shilling is brought to their attention. They have policies against it, but a financial incentive (higher fees on higher selling prices) if it happens. I think they are probably monitored to some extent by FTC or other, agency that they are indeed enforcing their own policies. I would guess it happens from time to time on a small scale, they do something about it when it is brought to their attention with a suspension or what not, and they spend most of their efforts looking for the big fish that could really land them in hot water.