Author Topic: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!  (Read 3740 times)

SilverZ

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #15 on: June 2, 2005, 12:55 AM »
Well, I'd actually really like to see the lightsaber effects that went out of whack with the new color-timing job fixed. That includes the green tint of Luke's saber during the blast shield scene and the varying color of Vader's saber during the final battle on the DS2.

But I guess those fall under quality control issues more than artistic choices.

Offline Jedidz23

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #16 on: June 2, 2005, 12:59 AM »
Well, I'd actually really like to see the lightsaber effects that went out of whack with the new color-timing job fixed. That includes the green tint of Luke's saber during the blast shield scene and the varying color of Vader's saber during the final battle on the DS2.

But I guess those fall under quality control issues more than artistic choices.

Certainly.  I think the Greedo thing would apply for quality control as well.   ;)

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #17 on: June 2, 2005, 01:35 AM »
Earning my living as a television editor and an independent record producer, let me side with Lucas on this.  When you put together a tv show, a CD or a movie, there are going to be compromises with the finished product.  There are going to be points that you as a creator are going to find objectionable, but you're facing a deadline, budget constraints, uncooperative/unavailable talent or inferior technology, and they're keeping you from getting things the way you envisioned them.  It's because of these outside forces having their way with a project that Lucas has said in the past that "movies aren't finished, they're abandoned".

What adds insult to injury for the creator is that every time you see the finished work, you see or hear every imperfection.  With every record I've ever produced, as much as I notice the good aspects, I know where every fault lies.  You know where each imperfection is and it makes you wince.  I bet to this day, even with the DVD version of A New Hope, Lucas winces every time he watches the TIE Fighter's flying around the Millenium Falcon and sees the matte lines around the solar panels.  I noticed them years ago and they're frankly kind of distracting.  I imagine that particular item may be fixed by the time a 6 DVD box set comes out with the entire Saga, but I would bet good money that Lucas is still unhappy with those shots.

On the issue of things that he's gone back and fixed, is anyone really bothered by the fact that he moved the rank insignia on Admiral Piett's uniform to it's correct position at the end of TESB?  Don't think so.  Do people like the way that the cgi Jabba looks in the DVD version of ANH?  Hell yeah!  It's looks much better than the inflated orange garbage bag that looked like Jabba in the '96 special edition.  How about the windows in the Cloud City corridors that we saw in the special edition as opposed to the plain white walls that were in the 1980  theatrical version of TESB?

I think Lucas is actually looking at things from a somewhat unique POV in the movie industry.  He's actually willing to go back and fix things and not leave some screwups out there for all eternity.  I think it's almost like a software company sending out updates for a program.  They recognize the imperfections and fix them.  So does Lucas.  He has the will and the means to fix his mistakes.  I can't fault him for going back and making the best movie that he can, even after the theatrical release.
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Offline Herbert_Ackermans

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #18 on: June 2, 2005, 07:42 AM »
I think people will see the total lack of the Emperor in ANH as strange, given he's very prominent in Ep 1 to 3. I suspect that there will be some kind of Vader-Emperor scene in ANH edited in, also to explain why Bad-ass Vader suddenly plays second fiddle to Tarkin.

I hope there are no more changes.  There don't need to be anymore, unless he makes Han shoot first.   ;)

I don't think it's strange that the Emperor isn't in ANH; I think it adds depth.  Even though he does not appear, his presence is still felt.  Vader is still there, the Empire is strong, and Tarkin is running the show,  This isn't a weakness at all.  It would be weaker if the audience had to be reminded about the character.  This lets the audeince use their imagination, and piece together information that isn't present.  Yoda is not in ANH either, because it would not make sense from a narrative perspective to just insert him.  In the first LOTR's film, we don't see any Ents, yet that does not lessen their impact once they appear in the second film. 

No offense, but that last bit is a really dumb statement. You try to make the appearance of some character be the same as the lack of a character in one movie after 3 he was in.

You didn't have 3 movies with ents, then one without, and hey, number 5, they're back again.

... also to explain why Bad-ass Vader suddenly plays second fiddle to Tarkin.

Admit, in ANH, Tarkin is the main Bad Guy, and Vader is his evil ruthless henchman.
That does not gell with Ep 1 to 3, and 5 + 6.

I think it gels very well, hence the tragedy of Vader is more palpable; in spite of all his power, and attempt to gain more, he is still under the Emperor's thumb (just as he thought he was with the Jedi council), and under Tarkin's "leash" (to quote a certain Princess).

Myeah, your POV. In my view, Vader runs the show in TESB and ROTJ, while in ANH, he really is just some dumb dog for Tarkin.

In TESB, he can unleash all his power, like he did in ROTS. So why oh why, would this tragic hero, this troubled mind, submit himself to being bossed around.

He is the right hand of the Emperor, he helped create the Empire, he secured the Empire by wiping out the Jedi, why would he be content with being told what to do by Tarkin in the way he does in ANH?

"Vader, release him" "As you wish."

Myeah, really connects with that rage Anakin has in ROTS, and what he also shows in the duel in TESB, just before he severs Luke's hand.

But again, your POV.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #19 on: June 2, 2005, 04:33 PM »
I think people will see the total lack of the Emperor in ANH as strange, given he's very prominent in Ep 1 to 3. I suspect that there will be some kind of Vader-Emperor scene in ANH edited in, also to explain why Bad-ass Vader suddenly plays second fiddle to Tarkin.

Admit, in ANH, Tarkin is the main Bad Guy, and Vader is his evil ruthless henchman.


I think the in-universe explanation is that Tarkin was locally in charge of the Death Star project, while Vader was a hands-off overseer representing the Emperor.

Initially I didn't like the idea of shoehorning Palpy into ANH, seemingly gratuitously. But now that I think about it maybe it wouldn't hurt to have a VERY BRIEF holographic communication where he reminds Vader the Death Star is Tarkin's baby and let him do his thing, while probably assuring Vader they'll take direct control later on.

Meditate on this, I will.

I think Lucas is actually looking at things from a somewhat unique POV in the movie industry.  He's actually willing to go back and fix things and not leave some screwups out there for all eternity.  I think it's almost like a software company sending out updates for a program.  They recognize the imperfections and fix them.  So does Lucas.  He has the will and the means to fix his mistakes.  I can't fault him for going back and making the best movie that he can, even after the theatrical release.

I see what you're saying, but the original versions of SW occupy such a unique position in cinematic history that I believe they should be preserved for their historical value (artistic debates being an entirely separate issue). I don't see the harm in having the originals available, if for no other reason than as a basis for comparison with the updated versions.
« Last Edit: June 2, 2005, 04:34 PM by Valin Kenobi »
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Offline Jedidz23

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #20 on: June 3, 2005, 12:56 AM »
What adds insult to injury for the creator is that every time you see the finished work, you see or hear every imperfection. 

I think that is absolutely true.  He certainly is in a unique situation, where every single thing he does is criticized ad nauseaum.


On the issue of things that he's gone back and fixed, is anyone really bothered by the fact that he moved the rank insignia on Admiral Piett's uniform to it's correct position at the end of TESB?  Don't think so.  Do people like the way that the cgi Jabba looks in the DVD version of ANH?  Hell yeah!  It's looks much better than the inflated orange garbage bag that looked like Jabba in the '96 special edition.  How about the windows in the Cloud City corridors that we saw in the special edition as opposed to the plain white walls that were in the 1980  theatrical version of TESB?

... I can't fault him for going back and making the best movie that he can, even after the theatrical release.

I don't mind him changing the mistakes, but the add-ons are awful to me.  Yes, Jabba looks better, in the DVD (without a doubt), but he would look best if he wasn't in there at all.  This is just a rehash of the Greedo scene, and is mildly distracting.  You bring up very valid points, Nicklab.   :)
« Last Edit: June 3, 2005, 12:57 AM by Jedidz23 »

Offline Jedidz23

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #21 on: June 3, 2005, 01:01 AM »
No offense, but that last bit is a really dumb statement. You try to make the appearance of some character be the same as the lack of a character in one movie after 3 he was in.

Fair enough.  I don't think it's a dumb statement though.  Just making a point that the idea of adding the Emperor is silly.  He wasn't in three films when ANH was made, because there was only one film at that time.  To go back and add him would be as choppy as when Jabba was added.  It would not enhace the story at all (just as the Jabba scene did not).  I don't need Sidious added to make the story better.

Myeah, your POV. In my view, Vader runs the show in TESB and ROTJ, while in ANH, he really is just some dumb dog for Tarkin.

In TESB, he can unleash all his power, like he did in ROTS. So why oh why, would this tragic hero, this troubled mind, submit himself to being bossed around.

He is the right hand of the Emperor, he helped create the Empire, he secured the Empire by wiping out the Jedi, why would he be content with being told what to do by Tarkin in the way he does in ANH?
No one said he was content; he was jus doing as he was told.  There is mutual respect between Tarkin and Vader, and it's not all about power struggles anymore.  Vader may be evil, but he's not dumb either.  The Emperror says be cool, and he's cool.  Tarkin is a big part of the Empire and its success.

Myeah, really connects with that rage Anakin has in ROTS, and what he also shows in the duel in TESB, just before he severs Luke's hand.

But again, your POV.

Of course it's my POV.  Every single post on every single thread is a point of view.  Yours is too, and I may not agree with it, but that's cool.  We're all buds here.  Vader isn't a mindless thug; if you want that, check out T2 for robotic killing machines.  Vader is a bit more complex than that.
« Last Edit: June 3, 2005, 01:11 AM by Jedidz23 »

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #22 on: June 3, 2005, 01:17 AM »
[
I think Lucas is actually looking at things from a somewhat unique POV in the movie industry.  He's actually willing to go back and fix things and not leave some screwups out there for all eternity.  I think it's almost like a software company sending out updates for a program.  They recognize the imperfections and fix them.  So does Lucas.  He has the will and the means to fix his mistakes.  I can't fault him for going back and making the best movie that he can, even after the theatrical release.

From Valin Kenobi
Quote
I see what you're saying, but the original versions of SW occupy such a unique position in cinematic history that I believe they should be preserved for their historical value (artistic debates being an entirely separate issue). I don't see the harm in having the originals available, if for no other reason than as a basis for comparison with the updated versions.
Quote

I agree with the historial argument and sentiment.  I also think that in all actuality there is an archived version of the 1977 release in a vault, somewhere.  I don't think anyone is trying to destroy the film as it was originally presented.  Film preservation is actually a fairly signifigant issue in the movie industry.  A great deal of old films have been lost due to poor storage of the original negatives and deterioration of that stock.

But I think Lucas has taken this public stance that "the original films don't exist" so that he can avoid the debate about what should be out and what shouldn't.  I think there is tremendous potential for that issue to become totally unruly, since many a fanboy fancies themself an uber film critic.  Why not cut that kind of nonsense off at the pass?

I think ultimately, as far as what is on the market, the ball is in George Lucas's court.  He is going to want the version he likes out on the commercial market.  He's the owner of this intellectual property and it's his right to exercise his artistic control over the movies.  If a fan is so intent on having the theatrical release, or the '96 release, they can always have their VHS versions burned to DVD so that they last longer in better condition.  Lord knows there are enough bootlegs of them out there that you can buy DVD versions of the various releases if you want them.
« Last Edit: June 3, 2005, 01:23 AM by Nicklab »
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Offline Darth Broem

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #23 on: June 3, 2005, 08:26 AM »
I would not mind an added scene on a DVD extras menu.  You click on an extras menu and select added scenes kind of like deleted scenes.  Or an option to insert extra scenes into the film as a whole.  If technology allows this?   

The only scene I would care to see the Emperor in ANH would be as an extra scene showing him "disbanding" the Senate.  Or maybe even a scene where he is a hologram (his back to the audience) facing Vader telling him to go ahead and blow up Alderaan.  Or how about him telling Vader (still as a hologram) the Senate has been disbanded and to go ahead with the destruction of Alderaan.  That way we still don't really see the Emperor until ESB.  If you go from 4-6 instead of 1-6. 

But as far as adding an Emperor scene in ANH itself I don't know about that.  We already have a clunky Jabba scene in there.  Later we have that Biggs/Luke exchange which is kind of weak also.  I don't mind Lucas giving us extra scenes like those but not in the film itself. 

Again if he wants to do that stuff it's ok actually.  It's not what I would do but I am not the creator or the billionaire he has become.  But why can't we have the original as it was on DVD someway? 

I guess I will just have to breakdown and buy a bootleg of it afterall.

Offline Jedidz23

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #24 on: June 3, 2005, 10:31 AM »
I agree, it just makes things clunky.  If he wants to mess around with everything, whatever, but give us the originals also (pretty please with sugar on top!), just from an historical and cultural perspective.  After all, the '77 version are what launched everything in the first place.

Offline 77Skywalker

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2006, 09:36 AM »
I know exactly the reason for the changes to Episodes 4,5, and 6.  George Lucas tinkered with A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi primarily to keep in line with The Phantom Menace (which explains the change of Jabba the Hutt in A New Hope), Attack of the Clones (which explains why Temuera Morrison redubbed the voice of Boba Fett in The Empire Strikes Back, and maybe even why the hologram of Emperor Palpatine was changed to Ian McDiarmid and that was a change that I thought was a good change), and Revenge of the Sith (which explains the most notable change which was in Return of the Jedi when they changed the ghost of Anakin Skywalker from Sebastian Shaw to Hayden Christensen.  Also, do not call me an idiot or anything but I liked that change and it explained the saga better).

Offline Clone Commander

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2006, 01:41 PM »
Quote
Its way too much and he won't shell it out (well maybe when people start sending him death threats)


Heh heh heh...

Dear,
Mr. Lucas.

I want to play a game...the rules are simple.
Return the original copies of the star wars trilogy onto DVD or you will have to go through a swimming pool of broken star wars dvds and cds and you must find the unbroken original dvds.
Let the games begin...  :o

I wonder what he would think if he got something along those lines?  :P

Oh well, if he wants to screw them up let him.
I meen hes getting old and insane as the years go by I myself can only expect him to Release a "Special Special(with a capitol R) Edition" and that will be his true vision.
A luke with a purple lightsaber and everybody will have walkie talkies instead of blasters.

Oh yeah and he will replace ESB with episodes of teletubbies.

Clone Commander Appo.

Offline mutantpoo

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #27 on: March 28, 2006, 12:10 AM »
He's not  really messing with it again is he ?

What's he gonna do this time ? Have Han and Greedo shake hands ?

Offline Clone Commander

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2006, 02:08 AM »
Nah, hes gonna make them have a "Bros Hug".
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Offline Greg

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Re: Why Lucas tinkered with Star Wars!
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2006, 08:27 PM »
Quote
Its way too much and he won't shell it out (well maybe when people start sending him death threats)


Heh heh heh...

Dear,
Mr. Lucas.

I want to play a game...the rules are simple.
Return the original copies of the star wars trilogy onto DVD or you will have to go through a swimming pool of broken star wars dvds and cds and you must find the unbroken original dvds.
Let the games begin...  :o

I wonder what he would think if he got something along those lines?  :P

Oh well, if he wants to screw them up let him.
I meen hes getting old and insane as the years go by I myself can only expect him to Release a "Special Special(with a capitol R) Edition" and that will be his true vision.
A luke with a purple lightsaber and everybody will have walkie talkies instead of blasters.

Oh yeah and he will replace ESB with episodes of teletubbies.




Hahahaha... That sounds like something straight out of the movie Saw. Clone Commander, is your name Jigsaw?

Anyway, I'm just happy that everyone in Indiana Jones and Star Wars wasn't digitally made into Ewoks yet. I don't really mind the changes, but if George starts adding and taking out whole scenes, then there would be something terribly wrong there. And he should be shot. But until then, what are we gonna do?

(I am talking about the changes as in the 1997 tapes, cause I have yet to see the DVD. )