Author Topic: Who is okay with the Changes?  (Read 4158 times)

Offline Jim

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Who is okay with the Changes?
« on: September 21, 2004, 09:18 AM »
I am probably one of the few, but I dont mind the changes. Will I miss the originals? Of course.  But I can kind of see where Lucas is coming from.  I actually wish he would of restored some of the cut scenes.  Especially the Biggs at Anchorhead.  That bothers me the most since we see Luke at the end talking with Biggs and this earlier scene would of added more to the ending dialogue with Luke and Biggs.  The Greedo scene will always bother me this is the only thing I hate and disagree with Lucas.  Han was never meant to be a nice guy and this new scene does not fit.  As far as the other scenes, eg: Jabba, Emperor in ESB, I really like.  I just wish the cantina scene was cut differently with some of the aliens from the Prequels.  Some of this scene seems really dated.  For continuity sake we never see many Prequel aliens in the OT. Let the bashing begin ;D

Offline Scott

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2004, 11:08 AM »
I don't mind the changes...some of the execution has been shoddy but for the most part it works.  The Anchorhead scene has been said was cut because it screwed up the flow of the movie.  I don't know why it wasn't added to the discs.  Again...probably because he didn't want to spend the money on restoring those prints.  Or they are so bad he can't get them done

The new Anakin at the end is a shoulder shrugger but I'll take his word that he was never finished and if he can continue to improve them with new technology then so be it

I'm also not a fan of the Prequel aliens and the bastardization they have done with the looks with the new masks.  Again its a technology thing but to have the Aqualish move from a Walrus/Mammal type species to some weird Spider thing and have the Biths turn to something totally weird and have the Weequay look totally different...I don't think the OT aliens should change its the PT aliens that mucked it all up.  Adding a Neimodian or whatever Watto is or a Gungan to the Cantina may be cute but also unnecessary, IMO
« Last Edit: September 21, 2004, 11:11 AM by OCB »

Offline Jim

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2004, 02:11 PM »
I'm also not a fan of the Prequel aliens and the bastardization they have done with the looks with the new masks.  Again its a technology thing but to have the Aqualish move from a Walrus/Mammal type species to some weird Spider thing and have the Biths turn to something totally weird and have the Weequay look totally different...I don't think the OT aliens should change its the PT aliens that mucked it all up.  Adding a Neimodian or whatever Watto is or a Gungan to the Cantina may be cute but also unnecessary, IMO

Im not looking for huge changes in this aspect.  I just wish maybe 1 or 2 prequel aliens would of been added.  It looks like dozens of races were wiped out in a 30 yearr span.  After watching the bonus disc, I was really disappointed that the cut scenes were not available.  Sure, there available on the CD-Room, but its just not the same.  Im also a little confused and disappointed with the continuity of the ESB Emperor scene.  Im glad they added the footage, but the dialogue does not follow the beginning of the film.  Unless this is answered in EP3 and Vader is aware of Luke all alone and is hiding his presence from the Emperor. 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2004, 02:12 PM by rebeltrader »

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2004, 03:46 AM »
I for one don't mind them...  At least not the majority.

When the SE's came out, 2 things, and 2 things only stuck out to me as "bad" ideas right away.  Later, I'd say 3 or 4 possibly...  But they're things I was easily living with.

For me, the two things I hated, absolutely HATED, were:

1) Han shooting first...  Asinine in its inception, and deplorable in its execution.  The scene looked fake, and to me short of 100% changing it to Han blasting Greedo cold turkey, I can't see it being "fixed" totally.

Han's a bad ass.  Han murdering Greedo, and by the context of their conversation it IS murder because Han DOES owe someone money and is ducking them, and he DOES shoot Greedo under the pretense that all he'd lose is his ship to Jabba, not his life unless he tries physically stopping them from taking the Falcon. 

And I like Han that way myself.  I like him being just a nutjob with a gun out in the galaxy.  Lucas's skewed sense of "nobility" when he's trying to make a galaxy that touches every one of your senses as being "real" just strikes me as stupid.  Don't make Han anything more than he was originally in the film.  A scoundrel scumbag who's redeemed.  In a sense, he was pulled from the darkside himself by the very thing (love/attachment) that sends Vader to the Darkside.

That makes Han a much more deep sidestory.

Anyway, and...

2) Luke's sissy ass scream on Bespin.  Lucas fixes this on the DVD though, so no harm no foul.  The mere thought he was making an improvement there is disturbing to me though.

I mean, one little thing can totally RUIN an entire sequence...  What the F dude, Seriously?

The runners up then are:

1) Jedi Rocks...  I didn't like it, and I feel Lapti Nek was MUCH better.  Boy am I glad I got the soundtrack box set ages ago wtih the full Lapti Nek on it before they killed it.

Jedi Rocks also includes my dislike for CGI Sy over puppet Sy.  While Puppet Sy makes an appearance, CGI Sy sucks.  Joh Yowza's ok and all, but I feel the whole sequence is mucked up by the song mostly.  Lapti Nek was much more "alien" sounding to me, and less blatantly "comical" in attempt than Jedi Rocks.  plus, Jedi Rocks as a title blows goats.

2) The ending sequence where the music's altered around, and we see all the planets rejoicing...  While I can see the point of seeing all the planets rejoicing, I think it skews time and the time it'd take for the "word" to get out to all these hick planets.

It has its place and all, but I just am not all that fond of it I guess...  The song replacement sucks too because I liked Celebrate The Love in its original format much more over whatever the new song is.  I don't know why.

Now, as far as that goes...

I liked the rest.

I liked the beak on the Sarlacc personally.  I think it adds a menacing look, and suddenly the Sarlacc's not a vagina with teeth, which I think I've dated some girls that could have that analogy made of them, but I digress.

I liked the openess of Cloud City, and think it really enhances what was one of the more bland sequences of ESB, IMO.

I like the Han/Jabba exchange in Docking Bay 94, and personally I like Fett's glare at the camera.  I think the dialogue establishes Jabba as not such a bad guy...  A "real" character, instead of the evil slug we see in ROTJ.  He's not just a jerk, he's a jerk running a business getting screwed by another jerk, but a jerk who he sort of likes and wants to give a 2nd (or 3rd even) chance to.  Plus I liked his thug gang of Rodians and dirty humans.  Cool...  But the animation sucked the first time...  I'm happy they changed it though, and I think it's neat when he steps on Jabba's tail, again establishing what a douche Solo is actually as a person.  I can stomach the CGI, which when technology changes every month practically, I can even let it pass because it is merely dated more than actulaly "bad work" as it were.

I like the whole Mos Eisley expansion.  I think the city needed to be bigger like it is, I liked the swoop dude cutting off the Ronto, which I liked Ronto's overall...  I like the enhanced speeder driving around with scurriers running...  I liked the various craft landing and taking off. 

I'm 50/50 on the Cantina addition of the Pacithip, etc...  Cool in a way, but I liked the wolfman myself.  Then again, I see Lucas's point that it's cheesey, and in the end I got my Lak Sivrak figure so, I can live with the cut.

I like the X-Wings and TIE's at Yavin, and only would I add MORE fighters if I were to make a change...  More X-Wings or Y-Wings, and I'd have a brief shot of A-Wings buzzing off to do some high-altitude covering/diversion perhaps.

I'd have changed Endor to have MANY more ships as well.  Far more than what I'd want at Yavin of course, but I'd actually like to have seen a bigger battle at Endor.  I imagine a Blockade Runner suiciding into the bridge tower of a Destroyer or something, addition of a B-Wing assault intercut with the background destroyer's explosion or something to imply they were the ones blowing it up as was originally intended, added fighters, maybe add another freighter similar in design to the Falcon...  Add more Rebel Cruisers going toe-to-toe with Destroyers to imply a greater series of old-style naval combat going on.

That's just something I WOULD add if I were in charge...

I like the wampa on Hoth, and I think it was a nice addition.  I think however that the Wampa in Echo Base would've been better as an addition.

I like the Biggs/Luke exchange at the Hangar...  I think it deepens Luke's loss and has an element of loss in war that the film doesn't always convey.  The same kind of element I think the final battle is missing witht he Falcon NOT being destroyed (with Lando) when it blows up.

I like the addition of the Stormies in the hangar being in the hundreds if not thousands.  It makes Han's over-zealous 'rounding of the corner much more comical, but in a GOOD way.

And I think that's about it...

Overall I like the improvements.

On the DVD, which I've not gotten to watch yet, but I have seen some of the changes, I like the Vader/Emperor change for Empire...  I think that's important.

I think the Imperial March should've been added to Vader's arrival in ANH on the Tantive IV.  Just a personal quip there.

I DON'T like Temura Morrison's voice-over of Fett.  Lucas doesn't realize (or care, or whatever) that accents aren't genetic, and Morrison's acting is deplorable.  He did better on the freaking Bounty Hunter game.  Fett's old voice was more memorable and menacing.

Beyond that, I'm pretty content though.  I'm REAL happy Lucas didn't change the STormtrooper voices to leave that up to fans.  That all but concludes any argument about Stormies being Clones to me.  It says "You decide" rather than "Yeah, I decided to scrap all my EU and make them all Clones".  Lucas actually giving EU a nod is nice.

So, that's my figurin' on this.
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Offline LandotheScoundrel

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2004, 09:57 AM »
Did anyone notice the sound when Obi-Wan appears is different? Its not the rehashed Dewback sound anymore, but some sort of shrill crazy noise. I thought a police car went by my apartment the first time I watched it, so I skipped back, and sure enough it was changed.
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Offline inadvertent imitation

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2004, 06:18 PM »
I still don't like the Han shooting first thing, and my other major gripe was fixed on the DVD- Luke's sissy yell.

I'll be able to live with the slightly corrected Han shooting first thing on the DVD. It doesn't look near as bad as the 1997 version.

I didn't mind the new Emperor scene in ESB. I almost like it more this way. I noticed the credits still have Clive Revill's name in them as the voice of the Emperor.


But, I do feel that there are enough changes to these films. Just stop NOW.
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Offline amarsella

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2004, 07:31 PM »
I don't mind the Han/Greedo scene now, and the Jabba scene is much much better. I actually really like the added Emperor scene and I think it adds some depth to Vader's character. It shows that he's looking for Luke on his own and has not told the Emperor. When the Emperor teels Vader about Luke, Vader plays dumb but when the Emperor says "Search your feelings, you know it to be true", it seems like Palpy is letting Vader know that he knows what Vader has been up to.

The thing that I hate and I wish they would change back is that horrible kiddie song in Jabba's Palace in ROTJ. That scene sticks out like a sore thumb and does not fit at all with the "feeling" of SW. And I cannot stand that shot of the Weequay banging those drums. UGH!
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Offline Darth Broem

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2004, 01:05 PM »
I don't mind the CGI Jabba "as much" now in the DVD.  I can even tolerate the tail being stepped on "better" now.  I still don't like the Greedo shooting first and never will. 

But other than that I liked the changes for the most part.  The new hologram Emperor looks really great with McDiarmid in there now.  I'm a bit surprised by some of the new dialogue.  Not sure if I like Vader asking "How is that possible." about Luke being Anakin's son.  I thought it was established that Vader knows Skywalker by that point and even hunting him down.  But whatever that scene looks much better IMO. 

All in all the films look fantastic on the DVD.  I'm super happy with it.  They should do until the collasal 6 DVD set (or more) comes out after ROTS :)

Offline inadvertent imitation

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2004, 06:29 PM »
I always figured Vader was hunting Luke because he blowed up the Death Star. But I've thought that since I was five years old, so I'll bet I'm wrong.
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Offline Darby

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2004, 04:55 AM »
I subscribe to the theory that Vader is playing dumb with the Emperor.  What makes it confusing is we don't know for sure at this point that Anakin knows he has a son.  I'm spoiler free, but I'll bet that he does, and he knows Luke is his son, and he's slow playing the Emperor.

And I love the new Emperor scene, by the way.

As for the overall changes, I don't mind them.  He fixed the two most galring mistakes of the SE (already mentioned above) and I wish he would release the originals just for the sake of history, but one thing I think many fans are forgetting is, what is the original?

Is is the the first version of SW, without the Episode 4 - A new Hope tag?  Is it the very first early version of ESB, which did not contain a couple shots at the end which made the orientation of the Falcon relative to the fleet confusing? 

These have been changing since day one.  Star Wars is a work by a living writer - like many writers (most) - the work isn't really 'complete' until (gasp) he's dead.  It's like language; it's a living, breathing thing.  It doesn't ever stop changing or growing until it dies.

The SW saga will not even be complete until next summer, so really what we're watching is the theatrical demonstration of a writer revising his first draft.  Just so long as he makes the varied drafts available for posterity, I'm ok.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2004, 04:56 AM by Spuffy »

Offline Morbius

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2004, 03:32 PM »
      I think the new Emperor scene in ESB is fantastic, but what ruins it for me is that earlier in the film Vader mentions Skywalker by name to Admiral Ozzel - how Lucas could have missed such a glaring anomaly is beyond me!

Offline Jim

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2004, 05:02 PM »
After watching the DVD's a few times now, what really bugs me is the space fight scene after the Falcon escapes the DS.  Lucas should of gone CGI with this.  The ships move way to slow and similar and that blocking around the ships friggin drives me nuts.  Also, they should of addded some more ships attacking. Come on, the DS only sends only 4 ships out after the Falcon.  Does this make sense to anyone else ???

Offline jokabofe

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2004, 12:35 AM »
While I'm not okay with these changes, I'll repeat what I said in my other review of the box set: If I have to deal with them to get these films in this high quality of a print/transfer, then I'll go with it. The picture and sound quality out weighs the changes George has made over the years, at least to me. Would I love the unmolested versions to be put out on proper DVD's? Hell yeah. But until that day, I'll galdly watch these, and just go to the kitchen for some snacks when some of the longer BS parts come on.

Offline LandotheScoundrel

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2004, 09:57 AM »
D'oh! You can delete this. I saw that people noticed this in the appropriate thread...my bad.  :-[
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Offline inadvertent imitation

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Re: Who is okay with the Changes?
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2004, 10:46 PM »
Excellent, excellent article regarding the Trilogy, artist rights, and censorship.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/commentary/?id=1477&p=.htm


I don't know where this guy came up with the idea that fans think they own the films (I don't see it here on these boards) but I'm liking the whole censorship thing. I know it's a commentary, but one would be daft not to recognize the growing threat of censorship.

Anyway, that's a topic for another thread. I still say they're Lucas' films, but I'd love to have the previous versions available on DVD, with the same lavish treatment this set got.
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