Author Topic: nip/tuck  (Read 5443 times)

Offline DoctorPadawan

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2005, 11:35 PM »
Dammit, I'll never marry Leslie Bibb.   :'(

All kidding aside, as for tonight's episode, I did NOT see that coming.  Nip/Tuck is the only show on television that is this unpredictable.

Matt's bald?  Identity crisis, yes.  Changing appearance to hide from angry transsexual?  Didn't see it coming at all.

Matt's doing his best Vader impression.  The Carver's next victim?  No.  Beaten by a gang of angry transsexuals?  Never would have seen that coming.

All the disturbing imagery of Adrian's rotting corpse ridden with maggots aside, the scene of Julia and her mother smoking pot in Matt's room were just hilarious.  Very little plot development tonight outside of Matt's ordeals, but another great episode.

Offline Famine

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2005, 11:48 PM »
Wow. I don't think he shaved his head to hide from the Tranny, just to look different, and less girly. Identity crisis, for sure.

I did the same thing this summer, but it was for a new look, and the fact that I was sweating so bad and overheating that it didn't matter if I took a shower 3 times a day, my hair always ended smelling like sweat.

I cracked up at the angry band of Trannys coming after Matt. I really did. That was so hilarious to see the crowd of men in chicks clothes tearing down on an 18 year old kid.

Adrians rotting corpse was absolutley disgusting, no doubt. Could you immagine that? Finding such a thing?

I loved the double meaning of the 6th sense refrence of knowing somthing was no longer right with some one, even if the apearance hid it. Troy getting raped but hiding it, and the gorilla with the scars, hiding it.

I didn't dig the whole Pot use thing in the whole episode. Not a fan of drug use, even fictional.

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Offline BillCable

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2005, 12:15 AM »
I was sure the gang member was going to get killed at the end... the symentry of one living and one dying.  Another unexpected ending.  I wonder if he'll be in future episodes.

I didn't know what to expect from Matt when he found his buddy's special surprise.  Pretty disturbing.  I have no idea where that arc is headed next.  This show really has no fear.

I'm looking forward to seeing more of the British cop next week.   ;D
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Offline DoctorPadawan

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2005, 11:36 PM »
Well, it was my first Carver theory, then I discarded it, Famine championed it, and it looks to me like, Christian red herring aside, Liz is probably the Carver.

The most obvious contention of this is the access to the anesthesia, and since Liz is the only person in McNamara/Troy who knows how to use that machine (remember the arguments between Christian and Sean as to who would "get" Liz in their divorce last season), it stands to reason that were she not the Carver, she would notice immediately if there were any problems.

The big one though is this: Liz knew that Christian was still in the building and that he had some sort of resentment toward the latest "victim" (who actually wasn't).  Christian walks in and he basically allows Liz to put him under so he can "make sure nothing is wrong", and the last time we see Christian, he's lying on the table, Liz touches his hand, and walks out.  Christian is incapacitated, Sean is elsewhere dealing with the Matt situation, and Julia has her daughter.  The only person who is unaccounted for is Quentin, but he's just too obvious.

Liz hears about the "fake" Carver victim and decides that she wants a little revenge, switches the anesthesia to the "waking" medication, and if the woman on the table wasn't a victim of the Carver before, she is now.  And then the Carver shows her rage by silencing the only witness to the crime that knows the anesthesia was definitely wrong.  The lawyer was already questioning the girl because of her lying to begin with, Christian and Quentin's unquestioning loyalty to Liz and her precision plus Christian's dislike for the woman gives Liz the perfect alibi:  pin it on Christian.

Plus, Christian dropped another of his "lesbian slams" early in the episode to Liz, so it set me thinking about the reason he was raped while Sean wasn't.  Christian gains power from his masculinity and is derisive toward Liz and her homosexuality.  What better way to completely control Christian and shatter his entire world than to simultaneously violate him in a homosexual manner and put him in a position that he had never been in: the submissive bottom, as opposed to the alpha male top.  Christian's rape is Liz's revenge for the nonstop gay jokes at her expense.

Half of me wouldn't be surprised to see this completely shot out of the water and Annie turn out to be the Carver at this point.  I just never know what to expect from week to week and that's why I keep watching. :)

Offline Commander Cody

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2005, 11:48 PM »
During the surgery when the lady was screaming... That freaked the hell out of me! :-[

Offline Famine

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2005, 11:49 PM »
My friend aught to believe me now.

Kevin
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Offline BillCable

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2005, 12:23 AM »
I don't know... the Carver just isn't built like Liz.  I guess they could fudge that, but in ever shot he's tall and powerful-looking.  She's average height and kinda heavy.

Great episode.  That surgery was intense.  It's hard to imagine being in that situation.  I can't picture Liz doing that on purpose, but the drugs disappearing - that's pretty damaging.

The promos for next week are freaky as hell.  Who know where the hell this thing is going next??  You'd think Christian being anesthetized during the latest attack would be a decent alibi...
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Offline Commander Cody

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2005, 01:34 AM »
A common thing shows like these do is change around the masked people so as to avoid people catching on to a general height/weight, etc.

Online Nathan

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2005, 05:30 PM »
1) I was a little "disappointed" how fast Sean got his daughter back. Don't get me wrong, that was really tough to watch, but with a show like this you'd think they'd have milked that story potential as long as they could, for one more episode at least.

2) Sure, Christian is an obvious red herring, but then again ... what if we're supposed to think it's a red herring, and it really is him--maybe they're making it so obvious nobody believes it, and when he's revealed it really is a twist? Just something to consider. 

3) Yes Christian was anesthesized, but as I recall there was no specific timeframe given, right? The way it was cut together may imply it was immediately thereafter, or maybe not. Unless somebody remembers a little better than me....

4) And Doc, you mention the rape, and I'll agree that's a credible motive for Liz, but if Sean is to be believed (I suppose nothing can be taken for granted at this point) there's no physical evidence it took place.

So

a) He's lying
b) He hallucinated from the trauma

Either way, your theory is shot down .... I think??

My brain hurts.


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Offline DoctorPadawan

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2005, 07:36 PM »
The whole Carver thing is so confusing because just when you think it's one person, that person is completely discarded due to one detail, and then ten episodes later, they come back to the forefront. 

There was someone on a Nip/Tuck board who went into a rather long and involved (and, well, feasible) explanation for how Sean was the Carver back during the summer.  It's actually dependent on something you mention, Nathan (the time lapse between the anesthetization of Christian and the murder of the girl last night), as one of the key contentions was that Sean laying in bed holding the gun on episode 02:16 (last season's finale) did not occur concurrently with Christian's assault.  This person suggested that Sean was "remembering" what he had just done to Christian and that while we thought at the time we were seeing Christian's assault in real time, we were actually seeing an almost immediate flashback.

4) And Doc, you mention the rape, and I'll agree that's a credible motive for Liz, but if Sean is to be believed (I suppose nothing can be taken for granted at this point) there's no physical evidence it took place.

Well, it has been about three months' time (in the television series timeline) since Christian was assaulted, so from a biological standpoint, he has had a rather long time to heal (physically if not spiritually).  I don't think Sean was saying that there was no sign of any trauma (I could be wrong) indicating a rape had even occurred so much as the trauma that had occurred at the time of the rape had healed to a point where it should not be bothering Christian in such a physical manner.  More of a "making a mountain out of a molehill" explanation from Sean to Christian, if you will.  What I got out of it was that even though a physical assault had taken place, Christian's reexperiencing of the pain in his rectal area was akin to PTSD and a somatic hallucination in the vein of amputees who sometimes claim they can still feel pain in their nonexistent limbs.

If Christian does turn out to be the Carver (and I don't think he will), I'll be shocked beyond shocked.  Quentin is too obvious (being the new guy and all) for one reason, and Liz became horribly obvious last night for other reasons. 

WHAT WE KNOW:

-Has access to paralyzing narcotic drugs
-Resents physical aesthetics as a primary means of identifying beauty
-Has access to paperwork from McNamara/Troy (the business cards)
-Had knowledge of the nature of last night's case despite the case not being leaked to the general public (I think)
-Has a vendetta (apparently) against both Sean and (particularly) Christian
-Was able to change the anesthesia in last night's operation without arousing suspicion

The argument that the Carver has to be a man (which I've never seen here, actually) is unfounded since the key points brought up for this are great physical strength and a penis (both of which are usually associated with the masculine persuasion).  However, the Carver's victims have all been caught by surprise, and the Carver is able to administer the paralyzing agent before the victim is able to react and defend themselves.  And as for the penis thing, I have two words: Strap-On.  Or if that's one word, strap-on dildo.   :P  After all, no DNA evidence had ever been found at any of the assaults.



Offline BillCable

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2005, 08:18 PM »
-Had knowledge of the nature of last night's case despite the case not being leaked to the general public (I think)

The way the victim described it, it sounded as if she'd gone public.  She was talking about support groups and charities... things that would make it onto the local news.  And she talked about all the attention she was receiving.  Even the way Quentin told Christian and Sean... it sounded like he was repeating a news story.

There are a lot of pointers to Liz.  She has access to the drugs.  You could say she used faulty anesthetic on purpose to torture the fake Carver victim.  Then that mixture disappears down the drain.  But it just seems SO out of character.  The only violent thing her character has ever done (that I can recall) was abort her baby.  But that wasn't malicious or sadistic.  In general she's a pacifist far-left liberal.  That usually doesn't translate into psycho-killer.  And there's no way that's her in the Carver outfit in any of the shots so far.  Like I said - they could fudge it.  But I tend to think they're a little more honest.
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Online Nathan

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2005, 08:25 PM »
Well, it has been about three months' time (in the television series timeline) since Christian was assaulted, so from a biological standpoint, he has had a rather long time to heal (physically if not spiritually). I don't think Sean was saying that there was no sign of any trauma (I could be wrong) indicating a rape had even occurred so much as the trauma that had occurred at the time of the rape had healed to a point where it should not be bothering Christian in such a physical manner. More of a "making a mountain out of a molehill" explanation from Sean to Christian, if you will. What I got out of it was that even though a physical assault had taken place, Christian's reexperiencing of the pain in his rectal area was akin to PTSD and a somatic hallucination in the vein of amputees who sometimes claim they can still feel pain in their nonexistent limbs.

OK, I'll take your word for it. I forgot three months had passed.

Quote
WHAT WE KNOW:

-Has access to paralyzing narcotic drugs
-Resents physical aesthetics as a primary means of identifying beauty
-Has access to paperwork from McNamara/Troy (the business cards)
-Had knowledge of the nature of last night's case despite the case not being leaked to the general public (I think)
-Has a vendetta (apparently) against both Sean and (particularly) Christian
-Was able to change the anesthesia in last night's operation without arousing suspicion

If it wasn't for the last one, that would fit Kimber.

Point by point:

-- Not difficult. She was already doing cocaine at one point, so who knows what kind of people she might know, especially thru the porn industry? Heck, that psycho British cop (name escapes me) could have hooked her up.

-- OK, so it's not explicitly stated that I know of, but it's not too much of a stretch that she might be feeling some resentment toward her line of work and how she got there, how everyone treats her as a sex object, and so on.

-- Easily accomplished, particularly considering the amount of time she spends/spent around Christian and the office.

-- Assuming it wasn't a news story, she could have talked with Sean/Christian/Liz or someone and we didn't see it onscreen. Or if, like BillCable said, it was already public, then this problem goes away.

-- Easy.

-- Now I admit this one would be hard to explain if it was Kimber. She could have sneaked in at some earlier point, but the stuff is surely locked up and I doubt she has the medical knowledge to figure out what to swap with what. Of course, she could have an accomplice on the inside--someone she simply bribed, or even Liz.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2005, 08:30 PM by #61 Senator Dork »
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Offline DoctorPadawan

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2005, 09:44 PM »
The way the victim described it, it sounded as if she'd gone public.  She was talking about support groups and charities... things that would make it onto the local news.  And she talked about all the attention she was receiving.  Even the way Quentin told Christian and Sean... it sounded like he was repeating a news story.

I bow to your superior memory, Bill.  :)  I had forgotten about the lawyer being paid for by the charity group, which would mean it probably had been made public. 

But it just seems SO out of character.  The only violent thing her character has ever done (that I can recall) was abort her baby.  But that wasn't malicious or sadistic.  In general she's a pacifist far-left liberal.  That usually doesn't translate into psycho-killer.  And there's no way that's her in the Carver outfit in any of the shots so far.  Like I said - they could fudge it.  But I tend to think they're a little more honest.

Yeah, that's what has been keeping me from thinking it was Liz up until last night, and is making me second-guess it all now (again).  She shows none of the overt signs or symptoms associated with Dissociative Identity Disorder, and there is very little anger present.  The only instances I can think of where she became visibly angry or upset is when she had the abortion and that was more out of an inability to have a child and having to terminate her "one shot" than it was actually going through the abortion process itself.  The thing that first made me think it was Liz was back when she explained her reasoning for wanting Christian's sperm for her in vitro procedure ("At least one of his parents would be beautiful") and its relation to the Carver's manifesto/mantra "Beauty is a curse on the world."


If it wasn't for the last one, that would fit Kimber.

Point by point:

-- Not difficult. She was already doing cocaine at one point, so who knows what kind of people she might know, especially thru the porn industry? Heck, that psycho British cop (name escapes me) could have hooked her up.

-- OK, so it's not explicitly stated that I know of, but it's not too much of a stretch that she might be feeling some resentment toward her line of work and how she got there, how everyone treats her as a sex object, and so on.

-- Easily accomplished, particularly considering the amount of time she spends/spent around Christian and the office.

-- Assuming it wasn't a news story, she could have talked with Sean/Christian/Liz or someone and we didn't see it onscreen. Or if, like BillCable said, it was already public, then this problem goes away.

-- Easy.

-- Now I admit this one would be hard to explain if it was Kimber. She could have sneaked in at some earlier point, but the stuff is surely locked up and I doubt she has the medical knowledge to figure out what to swap with what. Of course, she could have an accomplice on the inside--someone she simply bribed, or even Liz.

It's the last one (the access to the anesthesia in McNamara/Troy) that throws a monkey wrench into all our theories, it seems. :)  And going by that list, the vast majority of them could apply to Matt as well (even though I'm reasonably sure it's not him, I think, maybe, uhhh, possibly).

I can't remember the exact wording of it, but in the investigation of a crime, isn't there a mnemonic device for deciding who might be a suspect?  I know that motive, means, and ability are part of it, but I can't remember what the list is exactly. 

And that last part is an interesting point, Nathan: what if the Carver isn't working alone?  What if there is more than one Carver, in a manner of speaking?  We already know that Kimber isn't averse to same-sex relations, so the possibility that she and Liz are complicit in the Carver situation, stemming from a secret romantic affair is something for me to think about.

The thing that I'm digging about this is that I don't have the slightest idea what is going to happen and every theory I hear sounds plausible enough to be the correct one.  The thing that will completely blow my mind is if it's someone we never suspect behind the Mardi Gras mask and it has been right under our noses the entire time. 

Best.  Show.  On.  Television.  PERIOD.  :)

Offline BillCable

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2005, 10:18 PM »
Best.  Show.  On.  Television.  PERIOD.  :)

It says a lot for the quality and twisted nature of a show when any main character of either gender could feasibly and believably turn out to be a serial rapist and murderer.  And nobody has any clue who it'll turn out to be.

I still think it'll be some random person outside the main cast.  At least that's the most logical solution.  Besides the ether-adict who chopped up that bad lipo victim, have any other doctors had any vendettas against McNamara/Troy?
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Offline DoctorPadawan

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Re: nip/tuck
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2005, 04:11 PM »
Besides the ether-adict who chopped up that bad lipo victim, have any other doctors had any vendettas against McNamara/Troy?

The only other doctors that I can think of off the top of my head besides Boblit and Quentin who have had contact with Sean or Christian were Grace Santiago (the Psychiatrist from Season 1) and the female plastic surgeon (who Christian went to for a nose job in Season 2; that was the episode where he detoured Pyro from "X2" to McNamara/Troy to get his superflous third nipple removed).  Dr. Santiago may have some motive, but other than Christian wagging his johnson at her, I didn't think the female plastic surgeon was pissed as much as she was irritated by Christian.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2005, 04:11 PM by DoctorPadawan »