Does knowing the story (or at least the end) beforehand ruin the movie?

[jokabofe]

OK, before I start, I just want to preface this by saying there may be some spoilers for some of the films that I'm going to use as examples, so if you don't want to have them spoiled for you, I suggest you don't read this.

Now...

I was thinking the other day about some of the films I've been watching lately, and how more and more of the bigger hollywood blockbusters that have been coming out are all based on books - LOTR, Harry Potter, etc.

My question is this: do you think that knowing the storylines and the ending of some of these films lessens the enjoyment factor for you? Would you have enjoyed LOTR:ROTK more if you didn't know that Aragorn was the king, and that Gollum falls into the pit of Mount Doom and destroys The Ring? (Actually, I guess that last statement is more relevant to the last section of this post)

Do you think that because you already know that Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader that you will enjoy the film any less than someone who doesn't already know this? Not that I think there are too many people who don't know that, but I'm sure that there are some children or people who have been living in caves for the past 20+ years that don't know yet. So do you think they will enjoy ROTS more because it will more of a "shock" to them when they find out that Anakin is Darth Vader?

Or do you think that because you already know what's supposed to happen (at least in the Harry Potter and LOTR films, if you read the book) that it actually enhances the enjoyment, because you get to see what a game of Quidditch looks like, or you get to see what Valdemort looks like? You get to see what Minas Tirith looks like, and see if what you imagined it to be is anywhere close to what it appears like on the screen?

Do you get mad when they change things around from what was printed in the books? Aragorn going over a cliff after fighting with the Wargs? Huh? Did I miss that chapter? Gollum fighting with Frodo and tehy both fall over the cliff into Mount Doom, and Frodo is saved by Sam? What?? Again, did I miss a chapter? What happened to Gollum's happy dance? And what about the scouring of the shire? I know that there are supposed to be things that are going to be added to the EE of ROTK, but I haven't seen that yet, so I'm just going on the theatrical versions.

I'd like to hear how you guys feel.

[Ben]

Well, my brother's girlfriend recently asked me if I knew Anakin Skywalker was, in fact, Darth Vader, so those cave-dwellers are out there.

I approached the LOTR films as a different way of telling the story. I really didn't bother thinking ahead about the rest of the story, because I was too busy trying not to piss. It surprised me when Boromir died at the end of FOTR. I wasn't expecting that till the start of TTT.

But it really shouldn't have been any surprise to anyone that Aragorn became King in ROTK. I mean, the title is 'Return of the King'.

[Holographic Elvis]

Knowing the ending absolutely does ruin the movie if you have no clues about the story going in, unless you've read the books (ex. LOTR) or something along those lines. 

[Famine]

I absolutley belive knowing the end of a movie ruins the ending for you. Take The Sixth Sense for instance. A kid saw it a day before opening and ran his mouth as loud as he could and ruined the ending for an entire cafeteria of kids. I didn't bother to see it for a while, and yes, it was ruined.

With somthing of Star Wars proportions, we as fans know that Anakin is Vader. We didn't expect to get prequals. And when we do, we look forward to that awsome moment. It's not ruined because we have expectations, and we dont know JUST what leads up to the climax. Although I do hear it involves alot of thrusting.

Kevin

[Sprry75]

I don't think so; on the contrary, I think that storytelling has been sacrificed for the sake of "surprises."

I've read the Lord of the Rings books two times each, each of the Harry Potter books at least twice (some three or four times), and seen the Star Wars Original Trilogy nearly a hundred times.

Yeah, I know what's going to happen each time I encounter or revisit the stories, but that doesn't diminish the quality of the storytelling in the slightest.

If a storyteller--regardless of whether he or she chooses film, literature, or some other medium--is good at the craft of weaving compelling narrative with something important to say, then "surprises" are simply a part of the story. 

Something like "The Sixth Sense," on the other hand, comes off as just gimmicky.  Sure some people were "shocked" at first (how so many people couldn't have seen that ending coming from miles and miles away is beyond me, but I digress...), and had a good time watching it the second time to spot the "Oh!" moments ("Oh!  Look, he's sitting at dinner with her but she never really converses with him!  Oh!"), but who in the hell would want to sit through that crap a third time?  The gimmick works once for the shock, and again for the "Oh!" moments, but after that...nothing.

With timeless tales such as Lord of the Rings or even the Star Wars saga, however, you can revisit them again and again and again, because it isn't just about the destination; it's about the journey.

Who can honestly say that Empire Strikes Back sucks just because now you know that Vader is Luke's dad?

See?

[Holographic Elvis]

I don't think so; on the contrary, I think that storytelling has been sacrificed for the sake of "surprises."

I've read the Lord of the Rings books two times each, each of the Harry Potter books at least twice (some three or four times), and seen the Star Wars Original Trilogy nearly a hundred times.

Yeah, I know what's going to happen each time I encounter or revisit the stories, but that doesn't diminish the quality of the storytelling in the slightest.

If a storyteller--regardless of whether he or she chooses film, literature, or some other medium--is good at the craft of weaving compelling narrative with something important to say, then "surprises" are simply a part of the story. 

Something like "The Sixth Sense," on the other hand, comes off as just gimmicky.  Sure some people were "shocked" at first (how so many people couldn't have seen that ending coming from miles and miles away is beyond me, but I digress...), and had a good time watching it the second time to spot the "Oh!" moments ("Oh!  Look, he's sitting at dinner with her but she never really converses with him!  Oh!"), but who in the hell would want to sit through that crap a third time?  The gimmick works once for the shock, and again for the "Oh!" moments, but after that...nothing.

With timeless tales such as Lord of the Rings or even the Star Wars saga, however, you can revisit them again and again and again, because it isn't just about the destination; it's about the journey.

Who can honestly say that Empire Strikes Back sucks just because now you know that Vader is Luke's dad?

See?

I think you're missing the point.  If you read the LOTR and HP books before you saw the movie, then that's fine.  Seeing the OT 100 times doesn't make the story any less awesome.  The question was does finding out the ending of a movie ruin it for you meaning simply this: if there is a new movie coming out that you know nothing about and you are interested in seeing it, does all that get ruined for you if one of your buddies goes and sees the flick and then tells you the ending?  I doubt the question was asked for movies you've seen over and over again.

[jokabofe]

I think you're missing the point.  If you read the LOTR and HP books before you saw the movie, then that's fine.  Seeing the OT 100 times doesn't make the story any less awesome.  The question was does finding out the ending of a movie ruin it for you meaning simply this: if there is a new movie coming out that you know nothing about and you are interested in seeing it, does all that get ruined for you if one of your buddies goes and sees the flick and then tells you the ending?  I doubt the question was asked for movies you've seen over and over again.

Actually, you missed the point as well. I didn't mean "if someone tells you the ending of a movie before you see it, does it ruin it" - the answer to that is 99% of the time yes, regardless of who you talk to or what movie you're talking about.

What I meant was, if the movie is based on a book that you have read, and you know the story, and you know the ending, do you get any less enjoyment out of it than someone who doesn't know the story and the ending would? Do you think you would have enjoyed Harry Potter or LOTR or (insert movie you saw after reading the book here) more if you didn't know what the story was?

And do you think that people who don't know that Anakin turns into Darth Vader will enjoy Episode 3 any more than the people who have been following The Saga since '77?

[Holographic Elvis]

I think you're missing the point.  If you read the LOTR and HP books before you saw the movie, then that's fine.  Seeing the OT 100 times doesn't make the story any less awesome.  The question was does finding out the ending of a movie ruin it for you meaning simply this: if there is a new movie coming out that you know nothing about and you are interested in seeing it, does all that get ruined for you if one of your buddies goes and sees the flick and then tells you the ending?  I doubt the question was asked for movies you've seen over and over again.

Actually, you missed the point as well. I didn't mean "if someone tells you the ending of a movie before you see it, does it ruin it" - the answer to that is 99% of the time yes, regardless of who you talk to or what movie you're talking about.

What I meant was, if the movie is based on a book that you have read, and you know the story, and you know the ending, do you get any less enjoyment out of it than someone who doesn't know the story and the ending would? Do you think you would have enjoyed Harry Potter or LOTR or (insert movie you saw after reading the book here) more if you didn't know what the story was?

And do you think that people who don't know that Anakin turns into Darth Vader will enjoy Episode 3 any more than the people who have been following The Saga since '77?

You lost me dude.  If you've read the books than obviously you know how it ends and you usually want to see the movie to see how the story translated on film.  I'm really not sure what you're getting at. 

[jokabofe]

What I'm getting at is - do you think you would have enjoyed the film more if you hadn't read the book already?

[Muftak]

I think definitely yes. I read Jurassic Park in the week before seeing the movie back in '93, and was really dissapointed in what all was missing from the film version, including the drastically different ending and treatment of the Hammond character. In that case I feel I would have enjoyed the movie more had I not read the book. The same can be said of the last two Harry Potter movies--I found myself enjoying them less than my friends who hadn't read the books, simply because of what was missing from the stories (ie characterization that I felt was really more essential than some of the "action" stuff.)

Not that I'm against doing things differently from the book, sometimes it's just a matte of quality. As far as LOTR, they were drastically different as well, but they still held together as a whole in and of themselves. They still "worked" for me.

[Jesse James]

My brother's a HUGE Tolkien fan...  As much as I'm a Star Wars fanatic anyway.  I know he liked the movies irregardless of the changes.

Myself, I liked them knowing the answers...  Had I been told the answers to ESB before seeing it though, I don't know if I'd have liked it as much.

Just depends on the film I guess to me.

[Jedi Idej]

It really depends on the movie. Some plod along and the only thing worthwhile is the twist or surprise. Other movies are so rich and detailed, have so much for me to digest -- maybe the dialogue, character interactions, story within the story, the visuals, and so on -- that knowing the ending will have very little effect on my entertainment.

[Sprry75]

Okay, I'm confused now.  Who missed the point more, me or Holographic Elvis?

I still think that knowing the ending of a movie (or a book, for that matter) only ruins the experience of the movie (or book, as the case may be) if the only redeeming quality of the movie (or book, natch) is that it has some sort of "surprise."

And if that's the case, then it's a gimmick and I would hate it anyway.

If, on the other hand, the movie (or book) is a quality experience through and through, with maybe some surprises along the way, then the quality of the storytelling makes the media compelling regardless of the shock value.

But I kind of already said all that, didn't I?

[JediMAC]

Does it ruin the movie?  Hell no.  Aside from the OT, the LOTR trilogy are my alltime favorite movies.  They're amazing, despite the fact that I'd already read the books.

Of course, that's not to say that my movie going experience wasn't altered.  Knowing the story before seeing the movie obviously removes most/all of the element of surprise.  So in that respect, I think the film's diminished just a little.  But on the flipside, the advantage is that you've probably got a lot more story, background, character development to go on if you've already read the book.  But with the LOTR and HP examples, I think the answer should be fairly obvious.

As for SW (Anakin/Vader), eh, I guess it's about the same as Titanic.  You already know the ending, so who the hell cares.  You're just wanting to see how it all goes down.

I suppose a movie like the Sixth Sense though, would definitely be close to ruined if someone told you the ending before hand.  But aside from a few examples of that nature, I don't think knowing the ending (or whole story) is a hinderance to a great movie going experience.  Often just the opposite.

[JoshEEE]

For me, it absolutely does.
Many times I won't even SEE a movie if I know what's going to happen ahead of time, because what's the point? Someone told me the end of Star Trek Generations and it completely ruined that movie for me. I'd been waiting for that for years....and when it finally came out, I hated it because I knew everything that was going to happen.

I'm not saying Hollywood movies surprise me these days, but if I go into the theater already knowing what the big plot twist is, chances are I won't enjoy it.

Case in point, "The Terminal" was ruined for me 6 months ago and that came back to haunt me again last night. It became a very annoying movie for me, and I probably would have liked it a lot more if it wouldn't have been spoiled.

I had to bump the old thread and post in this one because it's quite relevant for me today.