Author Topic: 'The Hobbit' movie  (Read 25675 times)

Offline Greg

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Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #375 on: December 19, 2013, 11:35 PM »
Interesting that Cumberbatch did the voice of the Necromancer as well.

I recall reading or watching an interview (probably with Cumberbatch) where it was stated they wanted to link the evil forces of the Necromancer and Smaug together with a similar, yet different, voice. I liked the final result.

Why does my Bolg action figure look nothing like the guy in the movie?

Things changed A LOT during production. There is an interesting behind-the-scenes featurette on the Extended Edition Unexpected Jorney DVD, which details the evolution of Azog. The design of the Bolg action figure was actually one of maybe four or five different live-action/non-CG incarnations of Azog. I guess during production that design was re-used as Bolg (hence the action figure), then eventually scrapped in favor of a CG model. The "action figure Bolg" can be seen fighting in the Moria flashback in Unexpected Journey, which is kind of cool.

Personally I like the CG Azog a lot more than some of the original designs. CG Bolg, on the other hand, sucked in comparison to the live-action design.

Offline BrentS

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Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #376 on: December 20, 2013, 07:44 AM »


Why does my Bolg action figure look nothing like the guy in the movie?

Is that rhetorical sarcasm or an honest question?  If its an honest why I can fill in some of the details from what I've read online about the Bolg switcheroo.

Offline McMetal

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Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #377 on: December 20, 2013, 09:33 AM »


Why does my Bolg action figure look nothing like the guy in the movie?

Is that rhetorical sarcasm or an honest question?  If its an honest why I can fill in some of the details from what I've read online about the Bolg switcheroo.

No, it actually was an honest question, but I think Greg answered it nicely in his post (thanks). I do recall there being some modification of the Azog character but I didn't pick up on how Bolg related to that. I won't even get into Fimbul and Yazneg.

Other thing I forgot to mention was I had a very different reaction to the 3D HFR version this time around. I thought it looked great in the first movie, but in DOS a lot of the sequences seemed unnaturally fast to me and it was hard to follow the action with a close eye. I am keen to see the regular 3D version now or even the 2D version to see how it might look different.
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Offline BrentS

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Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #378 on: December 20, 2013, 09:55 AM »
No, it actually was an honest question, but I think Greg answered it nicely in his post (thanks). I do recall there being some modification of the Azog character but I didn't pick up on how Bolg related to that. I won't even get into Fimbul and Yazneg.

Ah, I didn't see Greg's earlier answer too...  but yep, that's what's been speculated.  I think once the PJ decided that he needed a more intimidating Azog and went the CGI route then the design for Bolg (his son) needed to change as well.  Also in the original two part story, Azog wasn't even going to be the main Orc bad guy - this was supposed to be Bolg.  If fact, originally Bolg was the orc stationed at Dol Guldor with the "Legions"... this all go turned around when PJ decided to expand to 3 movies and inserted Azog as the main baddy. So Azog ends up in Dul Guldor and Bolg is sent out to do the dirty work.

Since Azog was added about 5 weeks before the movie was released (or so the says the internet speculation) then all the merchandisers were left with a toy (old Bolg) that was actually only added in a flashback scene to the Battle of Azanulbizar.  Look closely and you can see young Dwalin killing this character.

There was also a change to the Smaug design... originally he was a four legged / two winged dragon and then was later changed to be the "integrated" wing/leg design we have now.  I believe this even changed from the Theatrical release of AUJ and the Extended Edition DVD/Blu release.

Offline Greg

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Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #379 on: December 20, 2013, 10:06 AM »
No, it actually was an honest question, but I think Greg answered it nicely in his post (thanks). I do recall there being some modification of the Azog character but I didn't pick up on how Bolg related to that. I won't even get into Fimbul and Yazneg.

Ah, I didn't see Greg's earlier answer too...  but yep, that's what's been speculated.  I think once the PJ decided that he needed a more intimidating Azog and went the CGI route then the design for Bolg (his son) needed to change as well.  Also in the original two part story, Azog wasn't even going to be the main Orc bad guy - this was supposed to be Bolg.  If fact, originally Bolg was the orc stationed at Dol Guldor with the "Legions"... this all go turned around when PJ decided to expand to 3 movies and inserted Azog as the main baddy. So Azog ends up in Dul Guldor and Bolg is sent out to do the dirty work.

Since Azog was added about 5 weeks before the movie was released (or so the says the internet speculation) then all the merchandisers were left with a toy (old Bolg) that was actually only added in a flashback scene to the Battle of Azanulbizar.  Look closely and you can see young Dwalin killing this character.

There was also a change to the Smaug design... originally he was a four legged / two winged dragon and then was later changed to be the "integrated" wing/leg design we have now.  I believe this even changed from the Theatrical release of AUJ and the Extended Edition DVD/Blu release.

What's interesting about Azog is that the digital model actually matched pretty closely to a very early concept sculpture that they made. The EE DVD feature highlights the process where they go thru a bunch of costumes and finally land on a digital version that wasn't far off from what they originally made.

Regarding the old Bolg at Azanulbizar, I think they actually filmed with the character versus adding him in later. The old Azog design was definitely filmed in the sequence, with the final digital version I guess being composited over the live-action version. Pretty crazy how many changes they made during production, and how close those changes were made to release.

I hadn't heard anything about Smaug being changed, but that doesn't surprise me. I plan to look up info on that as it has me curious to see the changes.

Offline Diddly

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Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #380 on: December 20, 2013, 06:44 PM »
Caught a matinee today and I guess I'm the only one here who was disappointed... the 2.5 hours actually did fly by quick but I think I'm mostly let down by the cliffhanger. I could have sworn somewhere they were ending it with the death of Smaug and having the Bilbo/Thorin conflict as the center of Part 3 but what we got felt more like 2.5 hours of "good guys find out who the bad guys are and don't do anything"

Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #381 on: December 21, 2013, 09:30 AM »
I still think these are too little book in way too much movie. Still enjoyed it as I did the first one, but the LOTR Trilogy, one book, one movie, not just about cash grab was soooo much better.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #382 on: December 21, 2013, 11:59 AM »
I saw the movie during the week.  For me, I tried to view the movie as a standalone piece that drew from a number of Tolkkien sources.  I've never read the book.  My own familiarity with The Hobbit came from the animated film.  It seems very clear that someone wanted to stretch things out.  The big question seems to be whether it was story driven or money driven.  I think it's a bit of both, but more likely it was about money.

From a story perspective?  I've been reading in a number of articles that some of the material that's found it's way into The Hobbit film series actually comes from The Silmarillion.  And I've also read accounts that The Silmarillion is a very difficult read, and most likely IMPOSSIBLE to film.  But it IS Tolkkien source material that could potentially contribute to a film, and I think that's probably what was behind New Line's efforts to stretch the movies into a trilogy.  And New Line has shown that their interest in Peter Jackson's film interpretations of Tolkkien's written work is very much about money.  After all, New Line did try to withhold royalties from Jackson, forcing him to sue the studio.  But I get the general sense that New Line recognizes that these films are likely to be their last opportunity to cash in on the world of Middle Earth.

As for the film itself?  The prologue was cool.  At first I was scratching my head, wondering why in the hell is Thorin back in Bree?  Sure enough, he turned up at the Inn of the Prancing Pony.  And it was nice to see Peter Jackson reprise his cameo role as Carrot Eating Man, albeit sober this time.  It was puzzling though, that there were men after Thorin.  Would men actually work with the Orcs to hunt down Thorin?  And on the cameo front, I was almost expecting an Aragorn cameo.  There have been some rumblings that Viggo Mortenson might reprise the role at some point.  But perhaps that's going to come in the Battle of the Five Armies?

The pursuit of the company of Dwarves by the Orcs has almost gotten a little tiring for me across the span of two films.  The prologue at least served to break that up a little bit.  But we ended An Unexpected Journey with the pursuit / rescue by the Eagles only to go back into The Desolation of Smaug with more of the Orcs chasing the Dwarves.  At least that was broken up with their encounter with Beorn, and the trek through the Mirkwood.

The Mirkwood sequence was kind of trippy.  And the spiders were more than a little bit scary.  The Wood Elves?  They seemed remarkably different from the Rivendell and Lothlorien Elves that we saw in LOTR.  It's funny, because I almost see a Star Trek parallel with the Elves, with the Rivendell & Lothlorien Elves being more like the Vulcans, and the Wood Elves are more like the Romulans.  The Wood Elves seem far more aggressive than any other Elves we've seen before.  Thranduil especially seems like a real sonuvabitch, and I can understand more and more why the Dwarves don't trust him.  I think I might need to see the extended edition of An Unexpected Journey to flesh out my own opinion on Thranduil and why he turned his back on the Dwarves of Erebor.

As for the whole Azog / Bolg thing?  I've done some reading and learned that in the books Azog was killed by Dain Ironfoot at the Battle of Azanulbizar.  And yes, you can clearly see Bolg as we saw the action figure in that sequence.  I personally haven't seen Dwalin killing him, but that scene is really dense, visually.  Making out all of the details is a little difficult. 

I think the reason for the inclusion of Azog (or a key Orc) was to aid Thorins character for the film.  When Azog killed Thorins grandfather, King Thror, it was a humanizing moment for Thorin as a character.  It helped to develop the story of Thorin and his oaken shield.  And all of a sudden the story wasn't just about the quest to re-take Erebor and it's treasure, but to avenge his slain family members.  One thing that I remember keenly from the animated film was the Dwarves being obsessed with the treasure.  Thorin in the films seems a bit more complex of a character than that.  Still, in Desolation of Smaug, they seemed to explore the treasure obsession a little bit when the Dwarves finally got into Erebor and Thorin was able to see the treasure for himself.  And that seemed to echo the scene of Thror's obsession with the treasure that was in the first film.

I don't know that I buy the whole love triangle with Tauriel, Legolas and Kili.  A Dwarf and an Elf?  Really?  Based on Evangeline Lilly's appearance on Conan O'Brien's show it seems likely that the studio wanted some kind of love story.  That's not without precedent in Peter Jackson's movies.  The whole Aragorn & Arwen storyline was a very minimal element in the print version of LOTR, but was greatly expanded for the Peter Jackson trilogy of movies.

I thought Smaug was thoroughly menacing.  The voice definitely worked for me.  Cumberbatch did a great job, and the Smaug voice didn't seem anything like the Necromancer voice.  And his dialogue with Bilbo?  I thought it played well.  At least, as well as you could picture a conversation between a Hobbit and a dragon.  But clearly, the fight between Smaug and the Dwarves seemed more like a film creation.  But Thorin's ride in a wheelbarrow down a sluice of molten gold?  Come on.

Gandalf's journey was interesting.  His investigation of the tombs of the Nazgul was understated, but cool.  As for his quest to Dol Goldur and fight with the Necromancer / Sauron?  That I'm not so sure about.  I get what the film is trying to achieve about Sauron's return, and his desire to use Smaug as a weapon of war.  But it does come across as being almost too convenient of a tie-in leading up to the events of LOTR.  There's also the mystery of Thrain that might still be explored.

Clearly, there's plenty left to resolve for the third film.  And the cliffhanger seems to leave us in a far different spot than we saw at the end of The Two Towers.  But we seem to be on a clear course for the third film, complete with Bard making himself ready with the black arrow in an effort to kill Smaug.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 12:05 PM by Nicklab »
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #383 on: June 2, 2014, 03:38 PM »
I finally saw "The Desolation of Smaug" or "The Desolation of Peter Jackson" last night.  I was underwhelmed and I think it's because PJ is bringing too much into the movie that wasn't in the book.  To be fair, it's his adaptation, but it was horrible in my opinion.  Too much orc chasing, too much love story that felt shoved in there for a romance angle.  With all the extra parts with Gandalf were cool, but I felt a little out of place time-wise.  It seems that Sauron already has an orc-army at the ready and is marching out to take over Middle-Earth.  And the summoning of the Nazgul as well.  I had thought that quite a few number of years passed between the Hobbit and LotR and in that time Sauron was amassing his army.  It almost seems that some of these scenes should be an epilogue....

Offline Brian

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Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #384 on: July 28, 2014, 03:34 PM »
Fresh off its SDCC debut, the first trailer for The Hobbit: Battle of the Five Armies has made it's debut online:

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/MarvelFreshman/news/?a=104665

Also, on the LOTR subject, I see Amazon has the Extended Edition Trilogy on Blu Ray today for $38, if anyone is interested.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 03:37 PM by Brian »

Offline Jesse James

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Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #385 on: July 29, 2014, 08:28 PM »
Bought the BR's so the kids should be stoked. 

Loved the trailer but knowing what's coming, it's kind of odd having it as one movie.  It'll have a weird pace to it I think.
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: 'The Hobbit' movie
« Reply #386 on: July 29, 2014, 10:16 PM »
Loved the trailer but knowing what's coming, it's kind of odd having it as one movie.  It'll have a weird pace to it I think.

I'm sure PJ can find enough filler material like he did to destroy the last one.  You know, the love triangle... that will probably end up being a Romeo and Juliet ending since the elf-chick is not in LotR.