Author Topic: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)  (Read 3283 times)

Offline Scott

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Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« on: April 3, 2005, 11:57 PM »
Just wanted to warn everyone that I will be talking spoilers in this thread.
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I've heard from a good source that there are moments in ROTS that are absolutely horrible and will definitely frighten the little ones.  What they were/are remains to be seen but I thought of four big ones:

#1 The burning of Anakin Skywalker (Immolation Scene)  If they show what I've seen in pictures, kids will be having nightmares for weeks about this.  This right off the bat was what I thought of was it, but then I started thinking even more

#2 The death of Padme.  Anakin choking Padme and killing her has got to be pretty bad.  Killing your own pregnant wife.  That is horrible, and not something a 5 year old should be seeing

#3 The Slaughter of the Younglings.  I've heard 3 reports of how this will be dealt with.  One is a scene where Bail Organa witnesses Stormtroopers gun down Lucas's son fleeing the temple.  Another is Yoda says to Obi-Wan "None have been spared, even the Padawans are dead" And the third and most grisly is Clone Troopers are seen ushering in Younglings to the Jedi Council chamber where Vader is waiting and the shot closes with the door shutting.  Any of these is bad for the wee ones.  Its something that needs to be touched on but again...terrible for the average 5 yr old

#4 Anakin becoming a bad guy.  I was thinking about this today.  Its not something real deep or anything but the major hero of the Prequels will become a villain and at the end of the movie his side wins.  That can't be good for the psyche

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So the reason why I was thinking about all of this is because like for TPM and for AOTC I've seen lots and lots of kids looking at figures and in the aisles with their parents.  Even my son was pretty intrigued with the stuff he saw.  However, when the movie comes out as PG-13 (as the whole LFL machine is thinking it will be) because of any and all of the above scenes, what effects will all of this have?

How hurt are future toy sales going to be?  Are parents going to bring little Johnny and Suzie anyway?  I can't think its going to help and after parents complain the end product was too graphic and too adult, what will the public backlash be?  Its and interesting time and it will be interesting to see how this plays out in the next 6 weeks

Also, will parents be mad at the marketing hoopla of a movie they are expecting to be PG like the other 5 were only to come to find out that its a PG-13 movie.  I'm not complaining from a movie standpoint because I think all of the stuff above is necessary for the story and I can't wait to see it all play out, I just am worried at the backlash.

Thinking back to 5 year old me and how scared I was at the end of ESB.  I cried when Han was frozen.  I cried when Vader said he was Luke's father and for 3 years thought he was lying.  Imagine some of the stuff I'm talking about above for 5 year olds.  Nowhere near as bad as ESB

Pontifications?
« Last Edit: April 4, 2005, 12:26 AM by Scott »

Offline CHEWIE

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #1 on: April 4, 2005, 12:34 AM »
I've kinda thought about this too...

And you know, I think this is necessary for the Star Wars story.  In the OT, Vader is that baddest ass in the galaxy.  He had to do something to earn that reputation.

Also, to be honest, most of the merchandise is purchased by older collectors anyway, and I think if anything, the darker the movie is; the more popular it will be.

We're not talking Texas Chainsaw Massacre or American History X here, so I think it will all be ok.

There probably will be a few soccer moms who take offense to it and the media outlets that target those people will make a big deal out of it.  The mainstream will accept it and love it.  Might be a little sad, but it's the story of Star Wars - and the story of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader is a tragedy.

My prediction - people will enjoy seeing a serious/hardcore Star Wars movie in the prequels a lot better than the goofy crap that went on in Episode One.

 :P

Offline Brian

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #2 on: April 4, 2005, 08:59 AM »
Good points guys, and something I've thought about lately as well.  I haven't been too good at avoiding spoilers (particularly pictures), and from what I have seen, it could be a little bit scary for the wee ones this time around.  That being said, adults will probably enjoy it more.  I saw plenty of both rummaging through the new products this weekend, probably more so than either of the other prequels as far as I could tell.  I remember on that 60 Minutes interview with George Lucas, he specifically said he wouldn't take little kids to see this movie.  I don't remember the exact age he said, but I think it was around 10 or younger.  He's giving the heads up, and if it gets a PG-13 rating that should be a tip off as well, but of course...since it is Star Wars....someone will complain.  It will be interesting to see how it plays out.  I'm looking forward to the movie, hopefully it doesn't offend others who aren't prepared for it.  I see Scott's point though, some movies (even though I watched them anyways) scared me quite a bit when I was 5 or so.  Seeing Han frozen was always a bit unsettling to me as well, and I remember being quite scared of those Gremlins movies for some reason when I was a kid.  Seems silly now, but back then I swear they lived under my bed :P.

Offline Pete_Fett

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #3 on: April 4, 2005, 02:35 PM »
I agree with Chewie - the PT desperately needs a serious, dramatic, action-intense climax so that it carries the franchise (in story-telling succession) to the OT.

I remember reading an article somewhere after AOTC came out and the author basically was asking 'Would Star Wars have been a phenomenon if Lucas had released TPM first and AOTC second?" (in otherwords, no OT to draw on)

The fact of the matter is that both TPM and AOTC were both riding on the coat-tails of the OT and the lack of new SW movies for so long. If TPM had been the world's first taste of Star Wars, it is quite possible that TPM would have been all she wrote.

ROTS needs to be a movie that makes you go back, re-watch the TPM and AOTC and actually see all of the little hints and build-up events that lead to the fall of the Republic and Anakin. The PT needs ROTS to be its anchor so as a whole, people will one day look back on the PT and say - "yeah, they're a pretty good set of movies that explain how a sweet young boy became Darth Vader" - just like people look back on the OT with fondness - a fondness that, to be honest, is firmly anchored in the Empire Strikes Back - the other movie in the Saga that ends with the dark side having the upper hand.
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Offline speedermike

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #4 on: April 5, 2005, 11:47 AM »
"a fondness that, to be honest, is firmly anchored in the Empire Strikes Back"

Speak for yourself.  I love Empire, but what made me a lifelong Star Wars fan was the joy, optimism, humor and excitement of ANH!!

While I worry about parents taking young kids to this, I saw lots of young kids at all 3 LOTR movies, and they were PG -13.  I think there will be some backlash, but if the film delivers, it will soon pass.

As far as kids having nightmares about Anikin burning, I think that's OK.  I would point out to my child that Anilkin was greedy and made selfish choices, that's why he burned.  These movies have always been designed as moral guides.
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Offline Morgbug

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #5 on: April 5, 2005, 12:06 PM »
Warning: cynic ahead.

Scott, I'm really glad you're thinking about this, most particularly as a parent.  I don't really have much concern for your kids, I think you're a responsible dad.  I think you're seriously in the minority though. 

I agree completely with you about what this could do in terms of scaring kids - I think it will.  I just don't think the majority of parents these days give much of a crap.  I've seen kids at movies that have left me disturbed by a particular scene.  That's just plain weird/wrong/stupid/illogical/inconsiderate of the parents to have their kids in there. But I think we're at a point where there's a certain numbness of brain in the bulk of people, so they don't think too much anyway.  I'm sure there'll be a fair number of complaints, but really, you'd have to be pretty silly to not know what's coming, even if you're not a big SW geek who spends too much time on boards.  It's all over the media and will be much more so in the coming 6 weeks.  The story is well understood by even the most casual observer.  If you've seen the OT you know Vader is evil and murderous; you know that the only Jedi left alive are Yoda and Obi-Wan, somehow the rest had to die.  We didn't know what happened to Padme, other than that she is no longer around and her children were raised by other people, so that may be a shocker.  Still, living under a rock necessary to not know the premise, if not the details.

That said, I agree with Chewie and Pete.  What we've heard of this movie is what is necessary in this movie.  I've long complained about the cutesy factor of ROTJ - I really do hate Ewoks.  I really believe that was the start of the end of the glory of the franchise, something not present in either ANH or ESB.  The Ewoks spawned Jar-Jar and the sound of music cutesy, lovey scenes in AOTC.  Blech to all of that.  Not necessary to the story, not required to draw in fans.  Just dumb plot devices that, IMNSHO, failed.  ANH and ESB are the most widely accepted as the best two movies of the franchise (post-pubescent crowd).  Leia/Han's romance occurred in what, a grand total of maybe 12 minutes over three movies?  No furry, funny, cute side characters in either of those movies.  No, this movie has to be dark, very dark to take it back to where the plot starts for ANH. 
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Offline CHEWIE

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #6 on: April 5, 2005, 12:18 PM »
I agree, it has to be dark.  Very dark.

Another thing about what made the OT so popular was that for the most part, they were dark movies.  They really were dark through ANH (slaughtering Jawas and the Lars Family) and we all know that darkness continued through ESB.

ROTJ really wasn't that dark, and that made sense as the Sith were being eliminated.  The darkest part of the film to me were the Emperor scenes; especially when he zaps Luke.

So, I would say there is very little to worry about.  I think most people know what is going to happen, and are looking forward to it.

 :P

Offline Scott

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #7 on: April 5, 2005, 12:31 PM »
I guess I disagree that most people know what is going to happen in a specific sense.  Spider-Man 1 and 2 were also PG-13 right?  I didn't hear a lot of complaining about either of them but for the most part it was violence and NOT the stuff I was talking about in #1 through #4.  That is almost R rated material.   Something kids should never even be exposed to. 

I can't also help and think about what Hasbro thinks about this.  They can't be very happy that the recommended audiences excludes half of their target market.  They are OK right now since the movie isn't out yet but there has got to be nervousness about the end movie and how its going to be perceived by the Soccer Mom.  Burning Alive and lots of Killing (Think about who and how these killings happen)...those aren't subjects that were in LOTR or Spider-Man at all

What if in LOTR during TTT the Uruk-Hai would have killed those two little kids that escaped on their horse?  How do you think that would have played with the media and parents? 

Offline CloneF13Y35

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #8 on: April 5, 2005, 12:49 PM »
After seeing the trailer and knowing how dark Rots is going to be, I'm not sure I will take my son who will almost be 5. It might be too dark for him.
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Offline LandotheScoundrel

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #9 on: April 5, 2005, 01:05 PM »
I can understand your concern, Scott, but we all knew it was going to be like this. Vader helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the jedi. When we first see him, Anakin is an innocent, good-hearted (though thoroughly annoying) child. As Vader destroys the part of him that is Anakin, we see him destroy what he used to be—young, idealistic jedi knights and young innocent children.

There's going to be some scary stuff in this movie. Maybe Hasbro should have thought twice about marketing their figures to very young chldren (action features).
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Offline Scott

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #10 on: April 5, 2005, 01:12 PM »
I also want to reiterate that I don't want anything to change at all, I'm with all of you, this is movie I've wanted to see ever since Luke took off Vader's mask.  How the hell did he get like that?  Who was Anakin?

I also have thought about the day when I finally get to show my boys the movies and we start with 1 and 2 and then we have to skip 3 for 4,5 and 6.  Its sort of dumb on one hand that they decided to do PG for 1 and 2 but decided to go all out for 3.  It should have been all or none.  Maybe its a sign that they realize this is an adult based franchise after all :P

Offline Nicklab

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #11 on: April 5, 2005, 01:22 PM »
I think  Scott has a very valid point.  I've started giving my 4 year old nephew some Star Wars items, and he's starting to get into it a little.  Thing is, I've seen the immolation image along with the shot of Dooku with his hands cut off.  There is NO WAY I want my nephew to see things like that at his age, even if he's only a year younger than I was when I saw ANH.  This is much more violent, and pretty inappropriate for young kids.
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Offline Darth Broem

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #12 on: April 5, 2005, 01:28 PM »
My nephew is 4.5 years old and he was terrified of the 2nd trailer shown in front of Robots.  He buried his head in grandma's lap and had to be told a few times "it will be over soon". 

The PG-13 rating out to clue in the parents.  As far as Hasbro goes well supposedly the collectors "never" see a child wanting Star Wars toys.  LOL!  There are probably more than we think there are.  There were several children present on 4/2 getting a few ROTS figures.  Mainly Vader though.  Some were pretty young. 

Offline Jim

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #13 on: April 5, 2005, 01:35 PM »
My nephew is 4.5 years old and he was terrified of the 2nd trailer shown in front of Robots.  He buried his head in grandma's lap and had to be told a few times "it will be over soon". 

The PG-13 rating out to clue in the parents.  As far as Hasbro goes well supposedly the collectors "never" see a child wanting Star Wars toys.  LOL!  There are probably more than we think there are.  There were several children present on 4/2 getting a few ROTS figures.  Mainly Vader though.  Some were pretty young. 


Im with you on the trailer.  Our son cant get enough of the other 5 movies and they dont bother him at all.  The trailer for 3 has him terrified.  As soon as hooded Anakin is walking with the clones behind him he gets really scared.  We will not let him see them movie or even on DVD this fall.

Offline CHEWIE

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Re: Kids and ROTS (SPOILERS)
« Reply #14 on: April 5, 2005, 02:00 PM »
I don't think it will be on DVD in the Fall.  Maybe next Feb. or something.

 :P