Author Topic: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion  (Read 5954 times)

SilverZ

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Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
« Reply #75 on: May 12, 2005, 09:32 PM »
Interesting. None of the comments regarding tracking are that alarming to me. I'm not surprised to hear bits and pieces of previous scores have snuck in. People seem to be waking up to the reality of film score as just another business aspect of film. Surprise!

For example, I read recently about how many people weren’t aware of the existence of temp scores, and that the tracks selected are critical to the direction the composer takes when writing and then recording.

I do wish that JW would just zap Lucas for the extra day or two of recording, and record new versions of existing pieces of music, though, instead of reusing existing versions. It sounds like he's right there at the root of the problem of items like DotF being tracked in from previous recordings. I think he underestimates the sophistication of modern film fans’ ears.

I've read in other comments from those that saw the movie that the score was, again, mixed much lower than the sfx tracks. That is the more alarming comment to me. Ben Burtt’s ego seems incapable of accepting the fact that score is an even more important part of film sound than sound effects. He’s robbed the entire prequel trilogy of the majesty that Williams’ score brings to the mix.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2005, 09:33 PM by Tydirium »

Offline Jim

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Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
« Reply #76 on: May 13, 2005, 07:28 AM »
The DVD was a nice little bonus, but we could of used one more ROTS selection with a bit more footage.  The one song just had me wanting more. 

Offline DoctorPadawan

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Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
« Reply #77 on: May 13, 2005, 09:29 AM »
Quote
I've read in other comments from those that saw the movie that the score was, again, mixed much lower than the sfx tracks. That is the more alarming comment to me. Ben Burtt’s ego seems incapable of accepting the fact that score is an even more important part of film sound than sound effects. He’s robbed the entire prequel trilogy of the majesty that Williams’ score brings to the mix.

I think the point where a lot of people started to really wonder about Burtt's mixing of the score vs. sound was when the DVDs came out last fall.  Many people had heard about how he had specifically asked for no music during the asteroid chase in AOTC, and due to the really abrupt edits in the music in other areas of TPM and AOTC, realized that his intentions might not be all about the film after all.  Then, once one of the most memorable musical pieces in ANH (the Rebel Fanfare that plays as the X-Wings descend on the Death Star) was mixed so low that it could no longer be heard due to a huge roar of the X-Wing engines, I think people started to catch on that Burtt might be a bit jealous.  Not to mention the fact that he reversed the channels for the music in the entire film and then LFL tried to pass it off as a "deliberate creative decision."   ::)

If you listen to the commentaries, especially on the OT, Burtt says (possibly several times) how he wishes there was no music in certain scenes so the sound effects could shine through.  Putting him behind an editing desk and/or giving him total control of the sound design is ridiculous when he's making comments like that because it's obvious his own ego is interfering with his ability to make the right choice for the films.

The truth is that with a few exceptions (e.g. the lightsaber and Vader's breathing), the music of the films is more iconic than the sound effects and, when combined with Lucas' comments that the SW films could work as silent films with just music, I think that Burtt is just a jealous prick who is abusing his position in the SW crew to make himself look good.


Offline JediKnight87

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Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
« Reply #78 on: May 13, 2005, 10:22 PM »
I love the soundtrack and can't wait to hear it when the music blares in the background during the movie. I'm holding off on the DVD. Don't want to spoil anything before the midnight showing!
"Now I am the Master!"-Darth Vader

SilverZ

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Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
« Reply #79 on: May 25, 2005, 01:15 AM »
So much for music blaring during the movie.

So much for good sound mixing in the movie, period, actually. After sitting through the first half an hour of ROTS on opening night, I wondered what was wrong with what I was hearing. The music was really low. The sound effects were flat. I blamed it on the theater, even with it running a film print with DTS audio. They must have screwed something up.

The next day, I took in the movie at the Arclight in Hollywood, running the show on a 1.5k DLP projector, with uncompressed PCM audio. In these theaters, I've never experienced a poor presentation. They're first rate. Again, quiet music. Again, sound effects lay flat on the screen.

I gave it one last show last night, and saw the movie on in the Cinerama Dome at the Arclight, which is running ROTS on a brand new 2K digital projector with, again, uncompressed audio. Again, in this thundering auditorium, the sound did nothing but disappoint.

The music's dynamic range seems squashed, tinny, and pushed way, way down behind the sound effects. It never has a chance to rise and surge emotion into the movie when it needs to. Instead, you hear it murmuring in the background.

Even when sound effects should take precedence, they never do. It the opening space battle, we see the Jedi starfighters race into frame, and if you listen carefully, beneath the endless layers of background sounds and rumbles of star destroyers, you may hear the whine of their little engines. The entire mix is out of character with the rest of the series, even by PT standards.

What a disappointment.

For once Ben Burtt isn't to blame, and now I can harp on the absence of Gary Rydstrom, who I guess is at Pixar full-time now. Whoever mixed ROTS delivered something far less than what it should have been.

Boo.

Offline Jediknight760071

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Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
« Reply #80 on: May 25, 2005, 01:37 AM »
If I were John Williams, I would be very pissed. I've heard many directors flame movie composers (except one who was a big SW Fan) , and the reason I believe it to now be, is that the sound effects departement railroads these composers. I had thought ROTS would be different, but I was, also, extremely disappointed.

Offline DoctorPadawan

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Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
« Reply #81 on: May 25, 2005, 11:12 AM »
I saw ROTS in a relatively new theater with a LOUD sound system (note to everyone: LOUD does not necessarily mean GOOD) and I've got to agree with you, Jared.  Sound effects that should have been more pronounced (the Jedi Starfighter engines particularly) were nearly inaudible, while whimsical sound effects (like the Tusken yell when Palpatine is talking to Anakin following Dooku's demise) were probably louder than they should have been. 

Rydstrom is going to be sorely missed at Skywalker Sound, and I think that Pixar has, once again, proven why it is the most successful (relatively) independent film studio out there.  If you were Gary Rydstrom, where would you rather work?  Pixar, where people actually like to have fun working, or SWS, where you have Captain Ego Burtt standing over your shoulder telling you what you're doing wrong.

That being said, it doesn't look as if Burtt was responsible for the sound mix (directly) this time around, at least judging from the Internet Movie Database's Crew Listing.

As for the score, the only point where the tracked music really bothered me was when the TF Cruiser began to lose balance (not the final crash, but the one where Grievous ordered them to fire reverse thrusters or something or other) and they put in music from R2 repairing the Royal Starship in TPM (that was subsequently tracked into the Podrace and the Arena in AOTC).  As yet, I haven't heard anything else that really bothered me the way stuff in AOTC did.

Offline Scott

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Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
« Reply #82 on: May 25, 2005, 11:24 AM »
I wasn't too keen on the use of the Coruscant theme as Obi-Wan heads to the Tantive...I think the scoring during the last part of the movie are fantastic though, from the time Obi-Wan confronts Padme through the end, its all great stuff

That theme that plays during the Kenobi-Padme conversation is a great one, and one I was humming for a few days afterward

SilverZ

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Re: Music of the Duel or Episode 3 Soundtrack Discussion
« Reply #83 on: June 2, 2005, 02:43 AM »
We have a new enemy. Tom Myers. The one that mixed ROTS.  >:(

Here's some interesting news about Ben Burtt. He's leaving ILM... for Pixar. There is no escape for Gary Rydstrom