Author Topic: "Obi-Wan once thought like you do."  (Read 1245 times)

Offline Herbert_Ackermans

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"Obi-Wan once thought like you do."
« on: May 21, 2005, 12:28 PM »
Vader says in ROTJ that Obi-Wan once thought as Luke, about him going away from the Dark Side with Luke.

I didn't really get that from ROTS. I didn't get the idea that Obi-Wan wanted to get Anakin back to the light side, but merely wanted to stop him, no matter how.

Obi-Wan didn't think there was any good in Anakin left, somthing he says so in ROTJ:"He's more machine than man now, twisted and evil." Obi-Wan implicitly says Luke is crazy thinking Vader can be turned back from the Dark Side.

If it were true, we would've gotten scenes where Obi-Wan would be pleading with Anakin to stop, to go back with him. But it seems Anakin, when Obi-Wan meets him on Mustafar, is already way too far gone over to the Dark Side for Obi-Wan to even attempt at bringing Anakin back.

Even Yoda sees Anakin as being purely evil in ROTS.

Add to that, Obi-Wan thinks the Sith can only be stopped by Vader getting killed. Luke says in ROTJ:"I can't kill my own father." to which Obi-Wan says:"Then the Emperor already has won."

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Re: "Obi-Wan once thought like you do."
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2005, 05:23 PM »
I interpreted the opening dialog on Mustafar between the two as the point Obi resigns himself to destroying Anakin. He arrives on the planet not wanting to do what he knows must be done, and engages in one last effort to persuade his pupil to yield, though it is obviously beyond common sense and hope.

By the end of the duel, he's obviously concluded, and tells Anakin so, that he believes Anakin to be "truly lost", admitting his failure as a master, and resolved enough in his belief to leave his padawan to a smoldering end.

But the duel itself, to me in viewing ROTS, is the turning point in Obi-Wan's resolve that carries into the OT.

This conversation could be interpreted by Vader, aboard the DS2, to be that everyone has held out hope for him far longer than he did for himself. He appears, by ROTJ, to believe that his evil will and blind pursuit of power will reliably take priority over his "light side" qualities, regardless of others. It would make sense that he warns Luke that others have made the same mistake, to their own demise, in trying to confront Vader.

So, I think Obi-Wan, from Vader's perspective, held out too much hope for Anakin. That line still makes sense from his perspective when he makes the statement in Jedi.

Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: "Obi-Wan once thought like you do."
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2005, 02:38 AM »
I think it could be inferred.  When they were Duelling, Obi-Wan apologizes to Anakin saying that he failed him.

Also, once Obi-Wan has the high-ground he tries to get Anakin to stop, if Anakin did stop, there might've been a chance for him to be redeemed then.  Of course Anakin was blinded by hate at that point and his rage wouldn't let him stop the fight.
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Offline Darby

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Re: "Obi-Wan once thought like you do."
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2005, 03:38 AM »
I agree.  Obi Wan didn't come out and say he thought there was still hope for Anakin, but his behavior during the entire duel (even his wounding of Anakin, not killing him outright) suggests he held out the possibility.

Offline Darth Kenobi

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Re: "Obi-Wan once thought like you do."
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2005, 03:00 PM »
Also while Obi wan was talking to Padme on Corusant it seems that he wanted to try and get anakin help in getting away from the darkside.  While they were dueling though he saw that Anakin was too deep into it. 

Offline Theyrenotdolls

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Re: "Obi-Wan once thought like you do."
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2005, 11:31 PM »
also remember,  "obi wan once thought as you do" or whatever is Vader's line.  That's Vader's interpretation of what obi wan's purpose is.   It is also possible that vader knows better, but is trying to lure Luke closer. 
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Offline CorranHorn

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Re: "Obi-Wan once thought like you do."
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2005, 02:14 AM »
Ok this isn't meant to be a knock on you Herbert, so please don't take this the wrong way. But your question reminds me of a lot of the criticism I have been hearing in regards to ROTS (not that you are criticizing it), that it doesn't come right out and tell you what the characters are feeling or thinking. A friend of mine, insists the movie sucks, because things are only inferred or implied, never clearly stated. But that's a sign of good storytelling, to have the reader/viewer see things in between the lines and look for the answer (whether the right one, or one of their own choosing) for themselves.

As everyone else, I think Obi-Wan's actions and what he does say during the duel on Mustafar, indicate he still had hope for Anakin but along the way, he realizes his hope was lost and now it's just regret.

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Re: "Obi-Wan once thought like you do."
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2005, 08:07 PM »
Padme explicitly said to Anakin that Obi-Wan wanted to help him/them.  I think that says it all right there.
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Offline Darby

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Re: "Obi-Wan once thought like you do."
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2005, 11:07 PM »
Word.  One of the joys (and frustrations) of SW is all the implications - the Palpatine/midichlorians/Plagueis thing, for instance.  Lucas leaves a lot of the work to the audience, and sometimes he overdoes it, but like with great fiction, there's nothing better than being engaged with the material.

Offline inadvertent imitation

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Re: "Obi-Wan once thought like you do."
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2005, 10:40 PM »
I thought this would fit here. Someone edited the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel into one piece, so it doesn't cut away to the Yoda/Sidious battle.

Putfile linky.


About those implications-- let us not forget Sifo-Dyas, and who he really is or isn't.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2005, 10:41 PM by inadvertent imitation »
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Offline dafoo

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Re: "Obi-Wan once thought like you do."
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2005, 03:06 AM »
that was GREAT to see it all at once.

I really got a chance to appreciate all the moves.

It happened too fast the first time around. =)
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