Author Topic: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?  (Read 4057 times)

Offline Jesse James

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The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« on: May 23, 2005, 09:01 PM »
OK, this caught me off guard in all 3 viewings, but the Tantive IV didn't LOOK like the Tantive IV in ANH that I remembered...  I found this odd, but I noticed RIGHT away the major differences and so tonight I checked a site that I KNEW would be talking about it and I had my thoughts confirmed... 

The Tantive IV CGI Model in E3 isn't accurate...  at all.

It's main flaw is that a whole mid-section of the ship is gone.  Cut away...  ANH footage puts the length of the ship at about 150m compared to the Star Destroyers...  I agree with that, the films are canon.

The CGI guys at ILM today appear, to me, to have cut away the ship in the middle...  This happened to many sources as well because a publicity shot of the TIV in ANH has it at an angle where you can't see a mid-portion of the ship.

I'ts incredibly strange though...  There's other little subtle changes and things by the CGI guys... 

I'm not terribly irked...  Explanations can be fudged on it, but I'm sorta saddened that they did such a sloppy CGI model of a ship from ANH that would be easy enough to just research and make an accurate model of.  It appears (as I see it) though that the CGI guys at ILM just took some reference books and used those designs instead, in all their inaccuracy.
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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2005, 10:12 PM »
Jesse, keep in mind you're talking about the same FX group that didn't bother to get the CG Falcon right for the Special Editions, where it's noticeably thinner and doesn't even match model shots that bookend it in the movie. 

Im not surprised at all. :)

Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2005, 10:38 PM »
Stuff like this makes me wonder, are these models NOT available for looking at? :) 

The Tantive IV is so clearly based on "resource" material like EGVV type books...  It's not even funny.  Where the hell was the model at?  Was it not available for photographing.

When I was in the LFL exhibit at C3, I went ape**** taking pictures so when I make customs of this stuff, I'm making it right...  Does ILM not realize, they can do that?
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Offline Ryan

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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2005, 10:45 PM »
And they have the whole freakin archive. ::)

Oh well maybe it was the Tantive III.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2005, 11:24 PM »
Bail Organa called it the Tantive.  He made no reference to a number as I recall.  There are also signifigant differences based on some background on the Episode IV ship.  Notably, that by the time of A New Hope, the ship had been signifigantly armored.  DK's Incredible Cross Sections has some background on that.
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Offline CorranHorn

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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2005, 02:17 AM »
Yeah I noticed too that the ship looked different, but until JJ said it I couldn't put my finger on it. Oh well easy to explain, as Nick said that's not the Tantive IV, a predecessor perhaps which gets traded in for a newer model during the next 18 years...

Offline Darth Broem

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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2005, 08:23 AM »
Apparently it was not painted red either.  The SW Insider has it painted a blue color.  I did not check to see what color it was in the movie though.

Offline Scott

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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2005, 09:45 AM »
Apparently it was not painted red either. The SW Insider has it painted a blue color. I did not check to see what color it was in the movie though.
I was blue

Offline Xander

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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2005, 10:31 AM »
Apparently it was not painted red either.  The SW Insider has it painted a blue color.  I did not check to see what color it was in the movie though.
I was blue

Bummed about it too, eh?  :P

Those are some interesting differences Jesse James, and I think I can buy Nicklab's explanation. Actually I would prefer that one because it much more interesting to me to see the evolution of all the ships and designs which occurred in the SW universe. Making it an early Tantive model which later changed is kinda cool. I prefer that because I tire of the tendency Lucas has to make so many details connected directly to the OT.  Greedo, Chewie, other shots of cantina aliens I didn't need. (Ok, I like seeing Chewie, but I didn't need it).

I'm glad they had several interior shots of the Tantive - those just looked great. I was chomping at the bit to see the Tantive when those first production shots surfaced, and I like the idea that it wasn't the exact same ship.

On a more practical level, yeah I can see it as an oversite too. I get the feeling certain parts of the movie were rushed, probably just like on any production. Maybe they just didn't have the time to devote to full research for the designs, and were falling behind schedule for whatever reason.

Offline Darth Broem

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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2005, 08:57 AM »
I did not really care that is was blue.  I just did not expect that.   

Offline Nathan

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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2005, 05:06 PM »
All the material so far (Visual Dictionary and so on) indicates it's the Tantive IV. (Of course that doesn't count for those that don't believe in EU.)
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Offline Darth_Anton

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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2005, 05:59 PM »
Regarding the computer generated versions being smaller, the models were photographed, so I guess it's true what they say, the camera does add 10 pounds. :P
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Offline mutantpoo

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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #12 on: June 4, 2005, 12:45 AM »
Does anyone else think the " evolution " of so many ships, weapons , armor , vechs. , etc..... was a bit too much. Some is okay but it seems like almost everything in the orig. movies had an older equivilent version. Were there no original ideas  in the time span between the movies ? I think the designers just got to lazy to even look up stuff from the sketch books. A little disappointed in that.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #13 on: June 4, 2005, 01:08 AM »
Personally, I don't view it as so much "evolution", but rather as simple similarity...

An AT-RT has 2 legs as does an AT-ST, but to me I look at that as being no different than my car having 4 wheels the same as most other vehicles on the road...

The ARC-170, while having some similarity to an X-Wing, doesn't jump out at me as being an evolutionary step...  Backstory's laying claim that it's an Incom ship, and that's fine, but the S-Foils strike me as something more along the lines of a feature seen on many types of ships by many types of manufacturers...

EU shows many ships with a general "shape" like the X-Wing that really have no tie to the X-Wing...  The supposed role of the XW and ARC are completely different, so I see them on separate evolutionary paths...  Honestly, I see the ARC as a closer kin to the Y-Wing (though if you go by EU, it too was in service during the waning days of the Republic...  Perhaps the Y-Wing lead to the ARC instead?).

For my money's worth, these ships and vehicles more stand alone rather than "lead into" each other...  The AT-ST is in the walker class, but shares no heritage from the AT-RT.  To me, the AT-RT maybe evolved into the AT-PT instead which pops up in the Empire in EU materials...

The ARC, to me, doesn't lead into the X-Wing so much as the Z-95 does as EU's established, and the ARC simply fades from existance or goes into public service or whatnot.

I agree wholeheartedly that there was too much "effort" from Lucasfilm to tie looks of things between trilogies...  EU's fleshing it out some so that it makes a little more sense and isn't just the straight "Hey, the ARC has the same shape as an X-Wing, sorta, so it must be what they design X-Wing's off of!" kind of mentality.  Too simplified for my liking, personally, and treads too much on things I enjoy that were already established (The Z-95, which is a ship still in service under the Alliance, will forever be the true forebearer to the X-Wing, and the ARC will have had no influence aside from perhaps the S-Foils being a "good" idea for venting increased heat output during combat).

The Corellian Corvette(-ish) in ROTS, which I believe was wholely intended to be the ship in ANH from Lucasfilm's POV but which has become obscured, I'm torn on as to how to explain...  I agree with some guys at a site I know that debate ships a lot, that the large section missing in ROTS would be awkward as an "upgrade" to the ship that happens between 3 and 4...  On the other hand, as Nick noted, the ship's only referred to as Tantive in ROTS I guess, so that's possibly a whole other class of Corellian ship...  The basic design, in EU, is varied...  The Mysteries of the SIth game had a larger version of the Corvette in service in the New Republic Era that had a large/spacious hangar capable of holding a defensive force of Rebel fighters, for instance, but had the basic shape of the Tantive IV down exactly (only larger).  The Corellian Gunship from EU also sports an incredibly similar look to the movie Corellian ships.  So for what that's worth, it could very well be a sorta smaller version of the Tantive IV we see in ANH, but not the same ship...

Every source out there's continually referring to it as the Tantive IV though for some reason.

The ship/vehicle issue is really interesting...  What I find interesting is how EU's sorta blending things, or blurring lines all together.  For instance, AT-AT's were basically placed in the Clone Wars era EU now...  They look almost identical to the ESB AT-AT's, based on the late conceptual art for AT-AT's (basically, a slightly boxier looking AT-AT then).  AT-TE's have been spotted in the Imperial-Era EU now too, which I like the thought of them still seeing service...  The AT-AP now may show up as well, and all the other walker variants mixed in from all the EU from all the eras...  Lucasfilm intended visual tie-ins, but EU's debunking them as "evolutionary steps" somewhat.  I like that, personally.
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Offline Nathan

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Re: The Tantive IV is... NOT the Tantive IV?
« Reply #14 on: June 4, 2005, 11:44 PM »
In this thread at TFN, this theory has been advanced:

Quote
Could it not be that after many years of faithful servis the Tantive was shall we say abit worse for wear.

Now Bail will probably have quite a sentimental attatchemnt to this ship, qhat with whats happend on board it over the past decade or so.

Would it not be feasible that he sent the Tantive back to Correlia for a full rebuild and upgrade?
The engineer's to, keep some continuity in the design, decided to use the same pre-empire decor. Also, the new conference room (seen in OT:ICS) is larger and more suited to its role as a diplomatic ship.

Now is this not feasible?

If you want a real world example look at the changes that occured to the Queen Elizebeth Battleships between 1915 and 1945. They are almost unrecognisable from the ships first commisioned.

Another is a car that someone really like, it would be cheaper to buy a new one than repair it but instead they repair it at a greater cost than a new car would cost.
Got to factor in Human nature. May not be the most rational thing to do but it felt like the right thing to do.

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I have to say I like this theory.

Another is that it was later swapped for another model but kept the same name for some arcane reason.

To me, the AT-RT maybe evolved into the AT-PT instead which pops up in the Empire in EU materials...

No, if anything, it was the other way around, since AT-PTs were present on the Katana Fleet several years before the Clone Wars (later put back into limited production during the Empire). In fact one of the ROTS guides mentions the RT's connection to the earlier PT.
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