Author Topic: Anakin's Immaculate Conception, Not So Holy?  (Read 4227 times)

Offline LandotheScoundrel

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Anakin's Immaculate Conception, Not So Holy?
« on: February 1, 2005, 05:40 PM »
I just inundated myself with the spoilers from main page of MilleniumFalcon.com, and I had an intersting idea. I'm sure someone else has drawn this conclusion, but I haven't seen it anywhere.

In the spoilers, there's the idea that Darth Sidious was the apprentice of Darth Plagueis. Apparently, Darth Plagueis learned to control the force to create life. Sidious learned the technique from him before he killed him. I then started thinking about the whole "virgin birth" thing, and wondered if we'll be discovering that Sidious created Anakin through the force. It certainly would be the "holy ****" moment we've been missing with the PT.

Anyone else thought about this?
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Offline LandotheScoundrel

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Re: *Spoiler* About Anakin's birth...
« Reply #1 on: February 1, 2005, 05:41 PM »
D'oh! I meant to put this in the Episode3 movie section. Can one of you mods move this for me?  :-X
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Offline Scott

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Re: *Spoiler* About Anakin's birth...
« Reply #2 on: February 2, 2005, 05:53 PM »
I bought the recent SW issue of Vanity Fair and Lucas specifically talks about the "virgin" birth of Anakin.  How most people didn't catch that or its not discussed enough.  He believes its one of the biggest points of the prequels.  Not sure if he has a twist behind it or not. 

I think...future generations watching them in sequential order will be shocked when in they find out Sidious and Palpatine are one in the same.  That is the I gotcha of the Prequels.  Its just that we all know it already which sort of takes away from the coolness of the moment. :-\

Offline Nicklab

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Re: *Spoiler* About Anakin's birth...
« Reply #3 on: February 2, 2005, 10:46 PM »
The whole story of Darth Plagueis certainly leads you to believe that Sidious may have had some "influence" in Anakin's conception.  I think this is one thing we're going to have to wait and see in the movie.
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Offline Darth Broem

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Re: *Spoiler* About Anakin's birth...
« Reply #4 on: February 3, 2005, 08:53 AM »
I don't know fellas.  When I first heard about the virgin birth thing  I thought he just did that so fans would not want another trilogy about Anakin's dad.  It would not surprise me at all if Lucas spins it so that Sidious had something to do with it like you say. 

However, Lucas is still blabbing on about that midiclorian concept.  Something about the Force speaking through the cells and they create Anakin someway.  I think something about that was in the Vanity Fair article to? 

I doubt Sidious has control over that situation.  I don't understand what Lucas is getting at though with the whole midiclorian thing anyway. 

Color me confused until I see ROTS. 

Offline Deanpaul

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Re: *Spoiler* About Anakin's birth...
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2005, 10:35 AM »
I think...future generations watching them in sequential order will be shocked when in they find out Sidious and Palpatine are one in the same.  That is the I gotcha of the Prequels.  Its just that we all know it already which sort of takes away from the coolness of the moment. :-\

I understand where you're coming from Scott.

In sequence, we get the "gotcha" as Palp=Sidious...

In OT first, then PT sequence, we get the "gotcha" as "Luke, I am your father..."

I think the Vader reveal in ESB is far more interesting to the plot, considering how it turns the whole triolgy on it's head and even at the end of ESB we're left wondering if he's lying. How could the most evil guy in the universe be the father of the hero? Noooooooooooo! At that time, we still don't know a lot of what is to come from Palp in ROTJ, and Vader is still the big action baddie.

I wish the PT would hide the fact that Vader had children from him, or lead him to think they died (still hope there) - and especially hide the fact that  twins were born (hide from Vader and the audience) so that Leia could be a "gotcha" in the OT, even if the Vader as Luke's father thing is known... Blah, blah, blah.

I'm bummed we couldn't have more of a surprise "turn the PT on it's head" twist in ATOC. Lucas talks a lot about trilogy. How ANH introduces characters and problems and then how at the end of ESB the characters are in their worst possible scenario. ROTJ is all about concluding the hero's journey. I know the PT is not the hero's journey, but rather the descent into what happens in the OT - but I'd still like a more emotional "we're all screwed" at the end of ATOC like we saw in ESB to set the stage for ROTS.

There is something mechanical and paced about the PT in the way the action has unfolded. Not that it's been predictable, it just feels like a forced march to a forgone conclusion.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2005, 10:39 AM by Deanpaul »
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Offline CorranHorn

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Anakin's Immaculate Conception, Not So Holy?
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2005, 02:56 AM »
I don't know how many people caught it, it took my 2nd viewing to try to fully understand it, but when Palpatine and Anakin have their conversation in the opera, it seems to me that Palpatine implicates he created Anakin.

Remember, Palpatine relates the story of Darth Plagus (sp?) and how his mastery of the Dark Side was so powerful, that he could use the Force to manipulate the midichlorians into creating life and how his downfall came at the hands of his apprentice, who he taught everything he knew. Palpatine doesn't say it outright, but he is that apprentice. As he gets to the point about creating life, the look on his face reveals to me that he's saying "yeah I created you!" Now if he did so, i think it was for the purpose of making Anakin so powerful in the Force (he says during his battle with Yoda, that Anakin will be more powerful than the two of them), then taking physical control of Anakin's powers or even his body (if you follow the EU lore that Palpatine could jump bodies when his physical body dies). Of course that falls apart when Anakin gets burnt up and becomes more machine than man.

My friend who saw the movie both times with me has a different view. She contends that Plagus created Anakin because he could (as a way of discovering his newly found powers) and that Palpatine is taking advantage of his master's creation cause he sees the power in Anakin. Whether it's to use the power to his advantage or to curb it to prevent his downfall, she could not say.

So what do you think? Who is Anakin's "father", is it Palpatine or Plagus? Or is it neither and just one of those mysteries we will never know, like the name of Yoda's species.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Anakin's Immaculate Conception, Not So Holy?
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2005, 04:59 AM »
I'm more leaning towards' your friend's interpreation Jason, only because that's what first came to my mind...  My gut reaction was that Palpy didn't do that but Plagus did...  Which is sorta neat.

It was like he was setting up a new apprentice to rid himself of his old one, and then his old one killed him off...  It fits with the whole "Sith are always trying to one-up each other" way they're established in the films...

Hell, even Vader's looking to undo Sidious before they even really hung out as master/apprentice!  I mean, wait till the body's cold or something...  He wanted to take over right away!

Yeah I can see your side, as Palpy does say "He taught his apprentice everything he knew", but at the same time Palpy doesn't talk up that HE could do that...  Manipulate the Midi's to form life.

BTW that makes the Midichlorians thing almost seem pseudo-ok to me...  I'm still grappling with accepting that really, but it actually gave purpose to E1's establishment of the force as being a physically detectable thing, but as well as being something mystical and powerful beyond comprehension as well.

Anyway I'm babbling but that's a good point.  I've been thinking about this since Tuesday night myself.  I caught it right away and was bummed we DIDN'T get his birth all wrapped up as to how/why it was done.

And then how did all that "chance" **** happen that Qui and Obi just happen upon him on Tatooine and all that... 
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Offline Gatillo

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Re: Anakin's Immaculate Conception, Not So Holy?
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2005, 10:03 AM »
I favor theory #2, not Palpi but Plagus. 
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Offline Scott

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Re: Anakin's Immaculate Conception, Not So Holy?
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2005, 10:30 AM »
In the Making of ROTS book in an early version of the script Palpatine tells Anakin that:

A. He created him through the Force and was basically "his father"
B. Dooku arranged for his mother's capture and death

I don't know what I think about not tying that up, its sort of implied that The Force made Anakin and not necessarily Palpatine.  By implying that it almost says the Devil made Anakin which if taken allegorically, it says that Anakin is the AntiChrist which would mean he has no redemptive qualities at all.  When taken with the whole story, that makes no sense.  So, I think the idea was thrown out because of that

Online Jeff

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Re: Anakin's Immaculate Conception, Not So Holy?
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2005, 10:45 AM »
I look at it this way (with only 14 hours post-viewing to develop my theory)...

The Sith created Anakin through an "evil" manipulation of the Force.  Whether it was Plagius or Sidious, I don't know for sure.  I think it's safe to say that the movie implied that Anakin was created by one of them...

Because he was created by the Force by means of Sith manipulation, I think that is why, as Jesse pointed out, Qui-Gon found Anakin by "chance".  I think that the Force lead the Jedi to find Anakin in some sort of attempt to save him from his Dark Destiny. 

It's like the Force knew that this poor kid was doomed unless someone could intervene to try to save him.  Maybe if he was able to get some Jedi Training then there would be some semblance of "good"" in him, a sense of "right" would be instilled in him.

Eh, who knows...

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Offline Darby

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Re: Anakin's Immaculate Conception, Not So Holy?
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2005, 09:56 PM »
I personally think Palpatine created Anakin, mainly because it answers a big nagging plot hole in TPM - how Darth Maul found the heroes on Tatooine.  I could be wrong, and maybe Palpatine's scheme isn't that grandiose, but you never know.

Offline amarsella

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Re: Anakin's Immaculate Conception, Not So Holy?
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2005, 10:18 PM »
I personally think Palpatine created Anakin, mainly because it answers a big nagging plot hole in TPM - how Darth Maul found the heroes on Tatooine.  I could be wrong, and maybe Palpatine's scheme isn't that grandiose, but you never know.


I like the idea that Plagues created Anakin to replace Sideous. Then, when Sideous found out he took out Plagues and continued with the plan to use Anakin.

If I were playing with my action figures that's the story I'd use.  ;)
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Offline Famine

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Re: Anakin's Immaculate Conception, Not So Holy?
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2005, 10:25 PM »
Here's Famines theorey, after 3 veiwings:

Plageus the Wise created Palpatine, and trained him in the ways. He made the mistake of teaching his Padawan EVERYTHING he knew, including how to create life. Palpatine kills his master, himself becoming the leading Sith Lord. Without a aprentice, he strikes out to get and obtain more power. While working with his new powers, he sense the midichlorians creating life, so he uses the dark side to help mold it, much like the red crystals made by the Sith. He knows he had the perfect aprentice, growing up somewhere, in a healthy area, away from the Jedi, and ripe for the eventual picking.

While in his day life, he's becoming a prominant figurehead for Naboo, when in seclusion he picks a new aprentice Darth Maul. Maul is to attempt to elimate the Jedi, and prevent them from finding the whereabouts of his future aprentice, Anakin Skywalker. The Jedi find him, and kill off Darth Maul. Anakin begins learning of the force, and becomes Obi-Wan Kenobi's padawan learner. He will be ripe for the picking. He's considered the Chosen One, and no one knows the better.

Palpatine picks a new aprentice, Lord Tryannus, a former Jedi, persuaded to the dark side. He studdied Dooku's reactions, learning abilities, all while creating a breeding ground (the Clone Wars) for Anakins agression. He befriends Anakin, and finds ways to get him to let his agression out, and open up his dark feelings. Palpatine has Dooku influence the Sand People tp capture Shmi, and have he suffer. The force opens up to her suffering, and Palpatine allows Anakin to see it throught the force. He kills them all. The door is open.

Anakin kills Count Dooku, and aligns everything he has forseen.
Eventually the time is right, and he alters the force to make Anakin envision Padme's death, somthing that Palpatine forsees, but Anakin couldn't have. He is manipulating him without even knowing. He suddenly bombards Anakin with power, unearened power, and uses the Council of Jedi as a tool to make him turn. Anakin learns of a way to save Padme, and falls to the dark side.


And so it goes...

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Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: Anakin's Immaculate Conception, Not So Holy?
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2005, 11:32 PM »
I'm still sticking with Anakin is the chosen one, created by the Force and not Palpatine/Sidious.

If Sidious had such control over the force to the point of creating Anakin, then he could've also created him to be completely obedient...then Vader wouldn't have killed him in ROTJ.
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