Author Topic: More articulation!  (Read 1904 times)

Offline dafoo

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Re: More articulation!
« Reply #15 on: July 6, 2005, 06:01 PM »
I don't know what you people did to your Joes! I have maybe 10 out of about 150 with busted rubberbands.

I need to get a AT-TE figure and check it out. And you people are wrong, the Joe waists look awesome!

The idea that a change in articulation would ruin the line is silly, think BUFF Luke and Lando.  Hasbro's consistency isn't good, they've had the ability to make a standard articulation package for a long time and are just now getting to it.  That's pathetic.

I can live with the SA Clonetrooper, but that should be the bare min articulation on all figs.  And they should seriously look into better waists too. 

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Offline Gregorbian

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Re: More articulation!
« Reply #16 on: July 6, 2005, 07:10 PM »
The SA Clone Trooper has 14 points of articulation while the G.I. Joe's that I have handy only have 10.  Sure the hip joints on the G.I. Joes have a larger range of motion, however they do not have swivel knee joints, articulated wrists, articulated ankles, and the ball-socket heads on the SA Clone allows for a larger range of motion than the G.I. Joe head.
I highly recommend checking out the AT-TE Tank Gunner; the torso sucks compared to the SA Clone, but the lower body articulation (basically the hips) is superb.

A change in articulation itself is not silly, however a change to the G.I. Joe format would be very silly.  Yeah, Buff Luke and Han are complete crap compared to their newer counterparts, however (and I may be alone on this one), they still feel like Star Wars figures.  Upgrading/Updating the sculpts is fine, especially when they incorporate more articulation, however completely changing the whole look of the figures is unnecessary.  The Dooku figure and Kit Fisto from ROTS are some of the best combinations of excellent sculpts and great (and hidden) articulation. 
I don't want to come across like I'm bashing G.I. Joe figures or fans or whatever, I just really don't see the point in Star Wars figures adopting the G.I. Joe style of articulation.
The scariest thing that I've ever seen,
Is the terrible AT-AT walking machine.
It's as big as a house on walking legs,
and whatever it steps on it crushes like eggs.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: More articulation!
« Reply #17 on: July 7, 2005, 01:55 AM »
Yeah, I like GIJ's for what they are as well...  I think they're a good toy line, they're just their own "style", and that works for them. 

There's huge gaps at their hip joints though, clearly visible.  They have huge gaps where the metal pins go into their thighs.  They often don't want to sit right at the waist (their ass sticks out awkwardly) because of the O-Ring mechanism.  They, of course, have a huge hole in their back to allow for the screw to secure their torso halves.  The O-Rings do dry-rot over time, it's inevitable (all rubber materials deteorate quicker than plastics).  The waist joint is often more visible than on Star Wars figures (sometimes it sits well and tight so it hides the articulation enough but sometimes it doesn't).

I haven't ever known anyone to t hink that the GIJ articulation was really "pretty" compared to what Star Wars has in its line...  That's mostly because GIJ was a toy line based on articulation over aesthetic appeal while Star Wars has changed over its modern line in an attempt ot find balance...  At first the line was aimed squarely at kids, but slowly Hasbro realized kids don't sustain a toy line like this forever so the line changed for a more "realistic" look...  Then over time articulation was increased here and there, but keeping the figure appealing looking has always been an issue that Hasbro has faced.  In recent years they've adopted a lot of ball/socket articulation, injection molding is routine, and they've been able to put out a highly realistically sculpted figure that also sports a lot of articulation (when they want to give it a lot of articulation).  They could still improve the line standard I believe...  A lot of the Collection 1 figures for the ROTS line, for instance, could've used knee joints but didn't get them (Mace Windu, etc.).  However, I would say that they've made great strides.  I just hope they keep at least the Royal Guard's articulation as the bare minimum for army builders, "action" oriented figures, and main characters...  Be nice if it was kept to aliens and background collector-ish figures too, however Senators and the like just don't need the articulation, nor can many support that level of articulation unless cloth robes are used. 

I think GIJ's are cool...  I think they do some really neat things with that line...  But I think it'd make for some ugly figures in the SW line.  I just hope Hasbro keeps their current attitude towards articulation and maintains these improvements over the line's life post-films...  I fear a regression, especially with seeing figures like the Wookiee #2, Neimodian Gunner, and Bacara, who all have less articulation than I'd have liked to see.
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Offline dafoo

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Re: More articulation!
« Reply #18 on: July 7, 2005, 11:55 PM »
Gregorbian:

I know that Joe lack a lot of the good articulation that SA has now. But I didn't argue that at all I want Hasbro to fix their waist articulation.

Adopt One part of Joe articulation, this isn't a 'replace it all for Joe style.' heh
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Jesse:

Who cares about style, lol. I want them to be good products too. But I'm not going to poopoo a better set up just because if comes from elsewhere.

I want good articulation on all figures and I want that to include good waist movements.

It doesn't have to be exactly like Joes either. I don't even see them needing the rubberbands, just strips of their most flexible plastic.  They certianly could make an attempt at it.

And I'm all for cloth robes.  ooh yeah!
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Offline Gregorbian

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Re: More articulation!
« Reply #19 on: July 8, 2005, 12:33 AM »
Gregorbian:

I know that Joe lack a lot of the good articulation that SA has now. But I didn't argue that at all I want Hasbro to fix their waist articulation.

Adopt One part of Joe articulation, this isn't a 'replace it all for Joe style.' heh
===========

I don't follow you on the waist articulation.  It seems to me that the SA Clone has the same (if not more) range of motion as a G.I. Joe figure.  Is there a difference (aside from position of waist joint)?

I'm definitely all for softgoods, especially as they don't hinder the movement of figures as much as a plastic robe would (read: General Grievous' Bodyguard)
The scariest thing that I've ever seen,
Is the terrible AT-AT walking machine.
It's as big as a house on walking legs,
and whatever it steps on it crushes like eggs.

Offline dafoo

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Re: More articulation!
« Reply #20 on: July 8, 2005, 12:52 AM »
When you sit a Figure down the legs are sprawled out as wide as they can be and they can't fit into things.

the legs are locked into moving in one plane of motion, the Joe hip/waist connection allows the freedom of movement on the legs and allows for a waist
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Offline Gregorbian

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Re: More articulation!
« Reply #21 on: July 8, 2005, 01:28 AM »
When you sit a Figure down the legs are sprawled out as wide as they can be and they can't fit into things.

the legs are locked into moving in one plane of motion, the Joe hip/waist connection allows the freedom of movement on the legs and allows for a waist
Oh, so you're talking more about the hip articulation?  I agree that hip articulation in Star Wars figures could be better in general, however after seeing the AT-TE Tank Gunner, I think hasbro nailed the perfect combination between articulation and sculpt.
The scariest thing that I've ever seen,
Is the terrible AT-AT walking machine.
It's as big as a house on walking legs,
and whatever it steps on it crushes like eggs.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: More articulation!
« Reply #22 on: July 8, 2005, 03:18 AM »
Well, like I said, GIJ waist/hips are generally unattractive... 

I'm all for the AT-TE Gunner's ball/socket hip joints, and SA Clone/Stormtroopers have a great ball/socket torso...  I can't see that looking great on figures you can't hide it on though.  It'd look like crap on a Han Solo figure for instance.  It worked on VOTC Chewbacca because it could be hidden under the fur...  It'd look terrible on an Episode One Obi-Wan though...  Just not my cup of tea.

How the ball/socket hip looks would depend on the figure as well.  On VOTC Luke, Ball/socket hips look like **** really.  On the AT-TE Gunner they're nice, but the armor of the character can hide a lot.

Flexible plastic and actual rubber are different eggs...  I don't think they'd have a durable plastic with the elasticity required for the O-Ring styled articulation.  There comes a point where you need either plastic, or rubber, but not a rubber-like plastic.

And again, if it's constructed the same way as a GIJ is, I think the gaping hole in the back looks terrible as well.

For my mileage I'll applaud Hasbro's Super Articulation style they have right now, as it's the balance of looks and articulation that this line's tried for.  I do think there is such a thing as "over-doing it" with articulation and I think GIJ styled articulation would be crossing that line on a lot of figures.  I love poseability too though, but only if it's not too obtrusive to how the figure looks.  That's what I dig about SW figures and what I don't care for about GIJ.
« Last Edit: July 8, 2005, 03:18 AM by Jesse James »
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Offline Darth_Anton

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Re: More articulation!
« Reply #23 on: July 8, 2005, 11:18 AM »
It would be intersting to see how the collector community felt about the whole waist articulation thing, but judging by the reaction here, I would say that a vast majoriy would be against using the old Gi-Joe rubberband waist.

BTW, is that how they still do it?
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Offline Gregorbian

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Re: More articulation!
« Reply #24 on: July 8, 2005, 12:10 PM »
BTW, is that how they still do it?

Yeah, I bought some G.I. Joes Venom Vs. Valor 2-packs on clearance at Target the other day for some customs and they still had the O-Ring waist.  Well, I should say the the G.I. Joe without the action feature had the O-Ring waist, the other figure (with some knife-slashing action or whatever) had a swivel waist and hip articulation that was the same as Star Wars (swivel joint).   I guess G.I. Joe articulation is not as uniform as I had previously thought...
The scariest thing that I've ever seen,
Is the terrible AT-AT walking machine.
It's as big as a house on walking legs,
and whatever it steps on it crushes like eggs.

Offline dafoo

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Re: More articulation!
« Reply #25 on: July 8, 2005, 12:18 PM »
Gregorbian:  now hasbro just needs to put it EVERYWHERE! =)  I DEMAND articulation.

It wouldn't mind having that semi ball and socket waist joint either, but CAN live without it.

GI Joe hack and slash is smelly too

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Jesse:

"Well, like I said, GIJ waist/hips are generally unattractive..." <<< CRAZY TALK =p

The rubberbands in Joes aren't meant to move as much as they are able, it just has to move like a few mm.  I don't mind the back screw, but it wouldn't be needed should they just rubbery plastic strips.  Plus, the hole is handy for backpacks heh

and I still want a ban on STUMPS for legs lol.
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