Author Topic: Wimpy/whiney Luke....a SITH?  (Read 1816 times)

Offline Jon

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Wimpy/whiney Luke....a SITH?
« on: July 28, 2005, 05:39 AM »
I don't understand how luke gets darker as the OT progresses. I mean look...he's white as a baby... then he's this white shirted,yellow haired crybaby, then a grey jump-suited-more brown haired thinking he's tougher type of guy
Finally, he's black clothed, arrogant..(hmmm like an early annakin?) really dark hair adult who chokes(see sith-hey they DID hold their throats) gammorean guards when they get in his way.

Then you have the prequels where Jedi wear warm brown robes and alot of white..the only dark clothed was..you guessed it annakin

even Obiwon has a dark robe in the new hope

Lucas- if i could find one discrepancy here this is it
« Last Edit: August 11, 2005, 04:43 PM by Darth Slothus »

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Wimpy/winey Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2005, 06:18 AM »
I've always looked at Luke as wanting to do the right thing... 

He choked the guards, but used the move passively compared to choking someone for burning your toast like Vader would do, and breaking their neck.  Hell, he killed people under interrogation...  Not the best guy you want handling your intelligence gathering sessions.   ::)  Let's make the blind guy a bomb-disposal engineer while we're at it.

The thing with Luke is he's trying, and trying to be good...  Lucas has said the character matured, the dark outfit in Jedi showed maturity but he still flirted to the darkside in his duel with Vader (but only upon extreme provocation...  And over "attachment", which has become such an immensely HUGE part of the saga as a whole)...  But in the end he still comes back...

Hell, he even gave Jabba plenty of time to just let the situation die and give him Solo...  I'm still at a loss as to what the plan was if Jabba would've accepted the droids, haha.

His outfits are so different...  I don't look at them really representing his growth much, save for the black one.  His duds in ESB are ALliance standard uniforms...  His outfit on Tatooine's just regular farmboy garb...  His Jedi outfit in ROTJ though just seems like his take on a Jedi's "plain clothes".  Ultimately he's not well versed in Jedi outfits and Obi-Wan didn't look terribly different from a lotta guys roaming Tatooine (and likely other planets).

I always thought it sorta bit that EU didn't take the black ROTJ outfit further, and when Luke starts the NJO that they don't wear similar Jedi duds to Luke's in ROTJ.  Like all of a sudden they all wanted to emulate Obi-Wan unless they were flying.
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Offline ThePerennial

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Re: Wimpy/winey Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2005, 03:43 PM »
I disagree with the first post when it says that Luke in return of the Jedi was arrogant. I don't see how he was arrogant, in fact most of the symbolism in the story suggests that Luke is mature. Things from the way he speaks with jabba to his confidence in the use of the force, even to his calm demeanor. In ROTJ, I see Luke as being the jedi he's always wanted to be. There's also a visual suggestion that Luke has matured. As jesse suggested, his darker robes are a visual manifestation of how he's matured. Also, in some cultures; Green is a colour of maturity and wisdom, hence Luke's new lightsaber.

 It's all a rich tapestry, really.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Wimpy/winey Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2005, 05:07 AM »
Luke was definitely arrogant in ESB...  He was at his height then.  foolhardy, rushing in to fight Vader, and not respecting Vader during the battle...  He paid for that too.

I like Luke's persona come ROTJ...  He is calm, indeed.  Even Vader's confrontation with him on Endor is a weird moment...  It's the first moment you see any level of humanity in Vader throughout the entire Saga really.  It's one of my favorite little parts of the classic trilogy though, no doubt.
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Offline Tracy

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Re: Wimpy/winey Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2005, 03:54 PM »
Even Vader's confrontation with him on Endor is a weird moment...  It's the first moment you see any level of humanity in Vader throughout the entire Saga really.  It's one of my favorite little parts of the classic trilogy though, no doubt.
Me too -- that conversation is one of my favorite scenes from the OT.  I love the resignation in Vader's voice when he tells Luke "It is too late for me, Son" :-[
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Offline Jon

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Re: Wimpy/winey Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2005, 04:41 PM »
E1-3 who's gets darker then ultimately black? vader(annakin) as sith
E-4-6 who does it here?, duh luke. ( and please don't over ANALyze and tell me
          what's a standard uniform ect..  . . just look at the colors simply

His arrogance and overconfidence are more sithlike- He knows he's a badass now and shows it in his calmer(no more giddiness) speach with his friends, sister
and above all he freakin' confidently threatens jabba on the skiff!

Yeah.yeah-you COULD say it's maturity but then how come everyone else says that as annakin progressed he was overconfident/not trustworthy-sithlike traits that even Yoda forseen as becoming the jedi-even Yoda new then downfall was imminent for the jedi 

Sorry I just don't see how the sithlike arrogance/overconfidence was any different than annakin's progression.

Was lucas trying to show how luke was a lot like his father before him-but then ultimately luke made the better choice?

OK-Time in - try to convince me more-debate it
I'll continue to entertain this


Offline Jon

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Re: Wimpy/whiney Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2005, 04:52 PM »
I don't see how getting darker as you get older is a sign of maturity
LOL- what are you saying? That if I wore alotta black in high school(see death punkers,goth) then I'm mature then? but now that I'm elder I wear lighter clothing I'm immature? That I should go with the goth thing now as an old man to look "mature" lol...hillarious ;D

I think the black always represented a badass mentallity/portrayal- challenge me on it....look at all the modern movies- who's the bad guys? or the "badass" good guys? I>E> blade, batman,van helsing,darkman. Bad dudes that ride the edge of totally bad- A sign of maturity?...hmmm,really?   

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Wimpy/whiney Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2005, 07:12 AM »


I'll try to touch on points in order as best I can...

Quote
E1-3 who's gets darker then ultimately black? vader(annakin) as sith

Anakin in the prequals doesn't really have much "darker" stages as far as his costume design goes...  The child version of him sports a Padawan's outfit...  But come AOTC we jump right into the robes we see him in even as a Sith...  So there's a hole in your theory as far as Anakin's "change".  The Vader suit as an end result doesn't change that he was Sith before that, and wearing his Jedi Robes he wore for most of one film and most of the previous one...  Not much real change there then with Anakin actually...  At least nothing that correlates with his ACTUAL physical transformation over time that we can witness.

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E-4-6 who does it here?, duh luke. ( and please don't over ANALyze and tell me
          what's a standard uniform ect..  . . just look at the colors simply

As far as Luke, I don't think anyone's overanalyzing you Slothus, and nobody's being "Anal" as you so eloquently put it...  It's a simple fact that Luke's outfits in ESB were uniforms, not really mental choice on his part, which is an important aspect to consider I think.  I'd think over-analyzing it would be implying the colors mean something actually, whereas the simple answer is that Luke's outfit in ESB (well, most of ESB) is just a Pilot uniform...  It's not even terribly darker than his Tatooine clothes, and if you compare it to his pants it's not really a change in color at all hardly.

The more important outfit is his black one from ROTJ though of course, and while it is obviously a dark outfit, no denying that,  The character's level of "darkness" or evil/bad is highly suspect...  Luke's changed but I've never seen him as anything but grown for the better rather than the worse.

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His arrogance and overconfidence are more sithlike- He knows he's a badass now and shows it in his calmer(no more giddiness) speach with his friends, sister
and above all he freakin' confidently threatens jabba on the skiff!

Is it really "over"confidence?  If it was, he'd have been beaten I think...  Palpatine referenced over-confidence being a weakness, but that was based on Palpatine's thought that the Alliance would succumb to his trap.  They didn't, and without Luke's help, so he wasn't even over-confident then either.

Luke went into the Jabba situation, and handled himself perfectly fine...  He freed his friend(s), he gave his enemy ample opportunity to walk away from the situation...  He saved the day.

He didn't even threaten Jabba, Jabba threatened him...  Luke gave Jabba multiple opportunities to end this peacefully, and even with compensation, and Jabba refused...  Was that arrogant to "whip some ass" then?  Hmmm, that doesn't seem right to me. 

Luke was confident...  Not overly confident, and he was downright afraid of his situation with Palpatine/Vader.  As a matter of fact, Luke explicitly makes it clear that he made that last effort to turn Vader to the light side, but he knew it was likely a futile attempt so he was willing to sacrifice himself on the Death Star, so long as he, his father, and Palpatine were destroyed together. 

Self-sacrifice for the greater-good is hardly an immature concept, or something a person with "bad" intents is going to consider.

But let's look at something else too...  You noted his "arrogance and over-confidence" as being "sith-like".

But what about these situations:

-Was Mace Windu "sith-like" confronting Dooku?
-Was Mace WIndu "sith-like" refusing Dooku's offer of mercy?
-Was Yoda "sith-like" when he marched into Palpatine's office, and exchanged what I hardly consider a humble back-and-forth with Palpatine?
-Was Mace Windu (& Company) "sith-like" when they went to detain a suspected Sith-Lord?
-Was Kenobi "sith-like" when he confronted Grievous twice?
-Was Qui-Gon "sith-like" when he told the Naboo to leave and let he and Obi-Wan handle Maul?

The point with all those instances is that each of them showed EXTREME confidence.  Some to the point of legitimate "over-confidence".  I would hardly label Yoda, or Mace as ever being "sith-like" though.  There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance...

Anakin gets the "arrogant" label because he's a brat most of the time...  He openly talks of his superiority to Obi-Wan, his mentor and master...  Someone he even refers to as a father-figure of sorts.  Anakin EARNS that label pretty clearly.

So, is Luke really "arrogant" or confident?  I think he's just confident when appropriate...  He's unsure of himself facing Vader and Palpatine, his ultimate test as a Jedi.  That is maturity as a Jedi from where I stand.  And ultimately he's never over-confident in Jedi...  His plans pan out better than he even imagined at the end when he expected his own death (and hoped for the death of Vader/Palpy).

And there's a number of moments where Luke showed a lot of growth and maturity into a great Jedi during ROTJ besides what's discussed.  It's throughout the film really.

In Empire though, Luke's over-confident going into the tree on Dagobah and is floored by the scenario...   Later, his "attachment" sways his judgment and he flocks to Cloud City to save his friends and confront Vader too early, defying both his mentors who tried to stop him.  He paid for it dearly too, and was lucky to survive the encounter.

If anything...  Luke's character is immature, and flirted with the darkside more consistantly in ESB than ROTJ where he only succumb to the darkside (once again via "attachment") upon Vader's taunt...  He actually bounces BACK from that dangerous edge he walked though.  That's maturity defined I think, in Star Wars terms. [/end nerdy comment] hehe

So these thoughts make me think even less of the notion that Luke's outfits by the films are a visual metaphorical progression of Luke "getting badder".

But, a key to think of is "bad" and "badass" aren't the same thing...  Being "sith-like" is bad...  Being a badass though, just implies you can handle your business and you know it.  What the lines are that divide the two are what's blurred.

The conversation certainly grew and spiraled some, but it's important to understand Luke's state-of-mind in the films to judge how the color of his costume may be some metatphore though, so it's all distinctly related material that's for sure.  Just a very in-depth topic.

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Was lucas trying to show how luke was a lot like his father before him-but then ultimately luke made the better choice?

On this point, Lucas WAS showing some relationship between the black of Vader's costume and Luke's.  I've seen Lucas note this in documentaries involving ROTJ.  But does that mean Luke's outfit can be paralleled to Luke being "bad"?  There-in lies the question, and simplying tying the two characters together doesn't mean one's black outift necessarilly meant he had a "bad" side to him either. 

Of course, Luke does have some bad side to him though...  He's human, he has to, but the question is can he control it?  In ESB he couldn't, in ROTJ he could, so this doesn't hold well to Luke's costume colors being too representative of his character really.

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I don't see how getting darker as you get older is a sign of maturity
LOL- what are you saying? That if I wore alotta black in high school(see death punkers,goth) then I'm mature then? but now that I'm elder I wear lighter clothing I'm immature? That I should go with the goth thing now as an old man to look "mature" lol...hillarious . 

I think that looking at the colors as a sign of maturity can be taken several ways...  it can be looked at as not applicable at all for sure, but Luke's black outfit is plain, it's simple...  It's setting Luke apart from the organization (Alliance) while not being bright, vibrant, or "loud"...  So it's setting Luke apart but not "seeking attention". 

As I've said, after reviewing things in-depth I'm really of the opinion that Luke's outfit is more a tie to Vader, but not a represenatation of the character being "bad".  The character of Luke in ROTJ is a much more mature character to me, irregardless of the costume he is wearing, while his lighter costumes in ESB are equally unimportant as to the representation of the character's personality at the time since he is much more immature at that time.

Quote
I think the black always represented a badass mentallity/portrayal- challenge me on it....look at all the modern movies- who's the bad guys? or the "badass" good guys? I>E> blade, batman,van helsing,darkman. Bad dudes that ride the edge of totally bad- A sign of maturity?...hmmm,really?

Once again though, "bad", and "badass" aren't the same thing by a longshot.  "badass" can be a completely good or bad person...  That's intent behind the actions.

"Bad" is just simply someone whose actions are motivated by bad intents.  Palpatine is bad in ROTJ, Vader is a torn character as we find out, and Luke is good (a strong, mature Jedi Knight) in ROTJ by my calculations...  Luke is a "badass" though too, obviously.  He can handle his business in almost any situation and he's confident in himself, even at the very end when he turns the darkside temptation away.

My conclusions on the subject are then that Luke's costume doesn't correlate with his personality if we're discussing Luke being "bad" or "sithlike".  There's nothing substantial there to back that in my point of view... 

Is Luke "badass" though?  He's confident and sure of himself in every situation except his final trial against Palpatine and Vader.  To me that makes him a badass for sure! :)  But not a "sithlike" character or "bad", etc.
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Offline Jon

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Re: Wimpy/whiney Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2005, 01:49 PM »


I'll try to touch on points in order as best I can...

Quote
E1-3 who's gets darker then ultimately black? vader(annakin) as sith

...  So there's a hole in your theory as far as Anakin's "change".  The Vader suit as an end result doesn't change that he was Sith before that, and wearing his Jedi Robes he wore for most of one film and most of the previous one...  Not much real change there then with Anakin actually...  At least nothing that correlates with his ACTUAL physical transformation over time that we can witness.

Well argued, fact- based, agreeable point :)

[Is it really "over"confidence?  If it was, he'd have been beaten I think...  Palpatine referenced over-confidence being a weakness, but that was based on Palpatine's thought that the Alliance would succumb to his trap. 

Not sure about this one- you say" you think" it's really a speculation point-now that I look at it more I believe Luke was more naeive(-did I spell that right?) than overconfident, still while not totally abandoning the overconfidence- I truly believe now that it didn't matter -the reason he wasn't beaten by his overconfidence/faith in his friends is because Vader was to ultimately decide the galxy's fate not Luke, this whole saga is about Vader not Luke. why didn't he name it starwars: the story of darth vader anyway? Vader still makes all the important decisions of importance on his own regardless of influence :-\

Luke went into the Jabba situation, and handled himself perfectly fine...  He freed his friend(s), he gave his enemy ample opportunity to walk away from the situation...  He saved the day.

He didn't even threaten Jabba

Really? he didn't while he was on the platform? what, just because you're under duress you can't possibly threaten someone(line of thinking)? sorry/ this is a " how you thought about it situation" the facts are obvious " this is your last chance/warning,etc." it's how you interpret it I guess and....we disagree :(



 and he was downright afraid of his situation with Palpatine/Vader.

Fear ..yes, a darkside path-I'm glad you mentioned this sithlike trait ;)
 
he was willing to sacrifice himself on the Death Star, so long as he, his father, and Palpatine were destroyed together. 

Was the moment he ultimately choose his fate of light or dark...while...Vader decides for the galaxy's fate :) 

-Was Mace Windu "sith-like" confronting Dooku?
-Was Mace WIndu "sith-like" refusing Dooku's offer of mercy?
-Was Yoda "sith-like" when he marched into Palpatine's office, and exchanged what I hardly consider a humble back-and-forth with Palpatine?

I feel Mace may have been starting to head down a dark path by attempting to kill a defenseless person-but we'll never know will we? ;)

The thing you must realize is that Mace and Yoda are so powerful because in battle they're able to "dance" with their own personal dark power-but, they can control it-the comic books and novels really explain the dark power of Maces' vaapad fighting style and yoda/quinlan Vos among others who "can control their demons"
 
-Was Qui-Gon "sith-like" when he told the Naboo to leave and let he and Obi-Wan handle Maul?

yes, it was very arrogant-like Annakin in the bar"jedi business..."

The point with all those instances is that each of them showed EXTREME confidence.  Some to the point of legitimate "over-confidence".  I would hardly label Yoda, or Mace as ever being "sith-like" though.  There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance...

Like I said above this is left up for interpretation- there's little hard line facts ultimately proving one another side on this. Being sith-like for a moment makes one not a jedi for their whole life???-obviously no :-\





But, a key to think of is "bad" and "badass" aren't the same thing...  Being "sith-like" is bad...  Being a badass though, just implies you can handle your business and you know it.  What the lines are that divide the two are what's blurred.

Agreed :)





I think that looking at the colors as a sign of maturity can be taken several ways...  it can be looked at as not applicable at all for sure, but Luke's black outfit is plain, it's simple...  It's setting Luke apart from the organization (Alliance) while not being bright, vibrant, or "loud"...  So it's setting Luke apart but not "seeking attention". 

I see it differently- I see it setting him apart because it IS different
Not too many rebels wearing ALL black mind you-see black sheep


You ARE incorrect on Vader's turn towards good- it actually begins in ESB- Vader showed...? restraint? "the Emperor is not as forgiving as I am"..what? since when is he forgiving ? the vader I knew would just assume choked the bitch and get a new commander to over see the building completion. Also if he was all evil he would have killed his own son-never would have suggested to turn him to the emperor's side-if he was evil he knew he would be signing his own death warrant if he did this.(but, we all know it makes for a better story that he didn't kill the whiner)

My conclusions on the subject are then that Luke's costume doesn't correlate with his personality if we're discussing Luke being "bad" or "sithlike".  There's nothing substantial there to back that in my point of view... 

Is Luke "badass" though?  He's confident and sure of himself in every situation except his final trial against Palpatine and Vader.  To me that makes him a badass for sure! :)  But not a "sithlike" character or "bad", etc.

My conclusion is that Luke "thinks" he's a badass(sithlike arrogance picked up somewhere between the end of esb and the beginning of rotj)..only until the final confrontation with vader does he realize he doesn't make fate decisions for the galaxy-only vader does. He becomes a jedimaster when he makes the ultimate sacrifice as you put it and abandons his sithlike traits...I wonder if his clothing gets lighter again after the saga?

Offline Darth Broem

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Re: Wimpy/whiney Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2005, 05:40 PM »
Everyone rips on Luke and Anakin for being whiney.  In reality most people in their teen and early twenties actually are whiney like that.   People don't thinkg that they are who are that age but it's true.  Besides Luke is really only whiney in ANH.  I guess you could say he is whiney when he bellows that "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" in ESB when he learns Vader is his dad.  But then again I will let is slide since it would kind of suck knowing Vader is your dad.  That and the fact that his hand was just sliced off by the old man.   

Now I am not saying Luke is a badass in ESB or ROTJ but he certainly does mature. 

Offline Angry Ewok

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Re: Wimpy/whiney Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #10 on: September 8, 2005, 10:15 PM »
Quote
Finally, he's black clothed, arrogant..(hmmm like an early annakin?) really dark hair adult who chokes(see sith-hey they DID hold their throats) gammorean guards when they get in his way.

I don't see how using a force choke is necesarrily a telling sign of a Sith or Dark Sider... Same goes for the hair... I was "yellow" haired when I was a kid, and it's gradually grown darker. As far as Luke's wardrobe goes... I think it's pretty safe to say that if Luke wanted to be taken seriously by anyone, especially Jabba the Hutt, it'd probably be a good idea not to wear his farmboy clothes.


Luke wasn't arrogant in ROTJ. Palpatine called it fairly well in the throne room when he said that Luke was (in his opinion, overly) confident about things. There's a big difference between arrogance and confidence - I think that's especially true in terms of the Dark and Light sides... Anakin was on the arrogant side, and incidentally he turned to the Dark side... Luke was confident in his abilities, and his training, and because of this, he became a true Jedi.

I think Luke's progression from farm boy to Jedi is perfectly played out...

Offline Artoo

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Re: Wimpy/winey Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2006, 06:12 PM »
  I'm still at a loss as to what the plan was if Jabba would've accepted the droids, haha.
I'm sure Lando would of smuggled them out since he "worked" there.Since R2 had Luke's saber in him,that would of been top priority.
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Offline Mitsukara

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Re: Wimpy/whiney Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #12 on: May 3, 2006, 10:45 PM »
Err, not to act like I know everything or anything, but if it helps at all here's my viewpoint...

The color symbology in the clothing choices actually seem very intentional, and have some subtle depths I think most people miss:

Anakin in TPM: gray tatooine duds, the wears a white padawan outfit very much like Obi Wan's

Anakin isn't entirely all goody-yippee-skippy in episode I if you pay close attention. Look at the way he bites Padme's head off at one moment- "I'm not a slave, I'm a person." Not much, but you can see some bitterness in him from the way he's lived, and I suspect the dirty grayness of his robes to be symbolic of that.

In AOTC: dark brown leather robes (leather? what other Jedi wears leather??) over slightly lighter, but still dark, brown cloth robes, with beige on the bottom layer.

He's got a big 'tude from the beginning here- you can see quite clearly that he's not pleased with the way he's not "progressing" as much as he'd like.  He thinks he's pretty badass, and that shows in the way he handles himself in the movie's first chase scene on. But on some level he means to do good... and in fact is somewhat good. Beige inside robes, then.

In ROTS: just like AOTC, except [/i]the bottom layer is now dark brown.[/i]

He's getting sick of his lot now, and, well, we know how the plot goes here. And notice something else: towards the beginning he wears a brown robe over his outfit, but when he becomes Darth Vader, isn't he wearing a black robe?...

Then of course, the Darth Vader suit is all black. Obvious symbology there.

Luke in ANH: white and brown farmin' tunic. X-wing outfit doesn't count, I think. Then there's his ceremonial outfit; don't know what's up with that yellow jacket, but I spy a black shirt and brown pants, even if they are out of Han's closet (why does everybody raid his wardrobe?).

Luke means to do quite good here, and for the most part isn't too bad. He's just got this anghst about how he's not progressing as much as he'd like, and... wait, this sounds familiar. But he doesn't think he's badass; he just wants adventure, and to be some heroic warrior. Then Obi Wan dies, and Biggs... I'm not sure if this is intentional, but his ceremony garb suggests something a little darker in place, if you think about it- but that's probably more accidental.

ESB: X-wing/Snowspeeder outfit and Rebel snowsuit outfit, sure, but when he wears his own clothes, suddenly he's wearing all medium-browns...

Here we find Luke, still meaning to do good, but he's been around a little more. He's kind of trying to find his bearings and figure out what to do, while protecting those he loves. But he's got some problems... overconfidence, a lot, as we see in his fight with Vader and the way he first confronts Yoda (Jedi training test #1 failed there ;)). He wants to do good, but he assumes too much of himself...

ROTJ: all black with dark, dark brown tunic (at least it looks brown if you look closely at the skiff scene- bet that's why the POTF2 guys messed up originally ;)).

Luke has been through a pretty bitter confrontation, learning that someone so horrible as Vader is his father. He's angry... look at the way he acts when Yoda says "unfortunate this is... and unexpected." "Unfortunate that I know the truth?!" he says. Luke is confused, and feels the pull of the dark side as well.

He's more mature and calm- not confident, but calm- and experienced, as well. But he's not  doing everything right- was he really supposed to choke those guards? Maybe push them away... but choke them? It all really comes into question when he confronts Vader, though- pay close attention to his responses and behavior to what the Emporer tries to do, to what Vader says. He's trying to do the right thing... but on the other hand (haha)... and when Vader threatens Leia after probing Luke's mind, Luke is at first horrified, and then explodes, beating the crap out of Vader. He very nearly kills him- he hears Palpatine goading him, but something feels wrong. He looks at Vader's missing hand... then to his own... and it all clicks. He realizes that he is becoming his father... and he decides not to. He tosses his lightsaber away, and proclaims "You've failed, your higness... I am a Jedi, like my father before me!"

Throughout ROTJ, and in Padme's dying words, you can see that both, in their very different experiences, felt and knew there was good in Vader- that Anakin was still there. But where Anakin made the wrong choice, Luke saw what was wrong, and decided to make a different choice.

Incidentally, Luke also called it perfectly when he told Palpatine that his overconfidence was his weakness ;)

So now that I've had a long sappy speech explaining 75% of the plot, I hope that somehow clarifies something for somebody. >> It makes sense to me, and is in fact perhaps what I love most in the Star Wars story... *shrugs*

Incidentally, look at Obi Wan's robes, too. At first he's got all white, and he's just sort of lofty and sees everything in a calm, slightly humorous way.... then some time after Qui Gon's death and training Anakin for a while, he starts to wear beige, but it's still light on his bottom tunic layer and pants... and then in Episode III, he adopts a dark, reddish brown bottom layer and pants. And then in the original Trilogy his colors are similar to this. Not turning evil, but becoming troubled and somewhat guilty... darkened, in ways.

And Clone/Stormtrooper armor is another example- white on top, sure, after all, they seemed like they were the Jedi's allies... but then there's black underneath...

Offline mutantpoo

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Re: Wimpy/whiney Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #13 on: May 3, 2006, 11:56 PM »
I always assumed he wore black simply to identify with/ be like..... his father [ but not in a bad sith way ] Like you putting on a Dallas Cowboy shirt because the old man is a Cowboy super fan.

Offline Roton7

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Re: Wimpy/whiney Luke....a SITH?
« Reply #14 on: May 8, 2006, 06:17 PM »
The ANH suit was way too lame, the ESB suit was a step up, but I really loved his ROTJ suit(s), especially the suit he wore on Endor/DS2. I don't think he's too sithly. Every Jedi has a little temptation and hatred here and there, and Luke is expressing that through the way he dresses. Take goths for example: most of them hate life. and now wearing all black, tons of piercings, chains, etc., is considered gothic. It lets people know your feeling without you having to explain to them what your perspective is of life. So, this is what Luke did. He didn't feel like going up to soem Imperial in a wimpy farmboy suit and tell them "hey guys, I might look stupid, but I'm realy ticked off at you guys, I'm really buildingup my hate to battle with my daddy-poo."

Now he can waltz into the death star and others will look at him and know what he's fighting for. Maybe the words "isn't that the pain in the butt toddler that Vader brought here on 'bring-your-kid-to-work day'?" will run through their heads...

 ;D
Yo is what yo is.