Author Topic: Wouldn't the Jedi have sensed it?  (Read 895 times)

Offline Ner_vod

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Wouldn't the Jedi have sensed it?
« on: September 5, 2005, 08:08 PM »
I'm stumped. In ROTS when the clones were ordered to kill the jedi, wouldn't the jedi have sensed it?

I mean, since most of the clones attacked their generals from the back, wouldn't they have sensed danger coming from behind them?

Offline Darth Broem

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Re: Wouldn't the Jedi have sensed it?
« Reply #1 on: September 5, 2005, 08:15 PM »
I think they did sense it but it was too little to late.  Yoda did sense it and reacted quickly.  However, he only had to clones to deal with.  Ki-Adi-Mundi sensed it and did react but was promptly mowed down by several clones.  Stass Allie was on a speeder bike and not much she could do about it especially when the other 2 clones on the bikes know what is about to happen.  She did not.  Same with Plo Koon.  He might have sensed it but by the time he does what is he going to do?  Kenobi did not sense it and almost got killed with that laser cannon shot.  Aayla, well that was just a lame scene as it turned out. 

All in all it just went down to quickly for the Jedi generals and the clones were quick to kill IMO.  In many cases there were too many clones to deal with for one Jedi General. 

Offline DoctorPadawan

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Re: Wouldn't the Jedi have sensed it?
« Reply #2 on: September 5, 2005, 10:38 PM »
While I could point to Yoda's statements in AOTC ("Impossible to see, the future is" and "The Dark Side clouds everything") as a possible explanation for the relative lack of foresight into the Clone betrayal/Order 66 massacre(s), my opinion is much less connected to SW and more to human nature itself.

I think that the Jedi didn't sense the Clone betrayal in a concrete way (e.g. the betrayal by the Clones themselves) because the Clones did not exhibit any signs of that even being an issue.  Mace was so busy worrying about Chancellor Palpatine near the end of the Clone Wars (the veiled threat), he never thought to consider the really obvious threat under his and the Jedi's collective noses.  The Clones were allegedly commissioned by a Jedi and were programmed to regard the Jedi as their generals and commanders.  Why would they even be suspected of such an action?

The Clones didn't realize they were going to betray the Jedi nor did they realize that they were nothing more than pawns in Palpatine's political schemes: in their minds, they were soldiers and the Jedi were their commanders.  However, in the depths of their consciousness, a clandestine thought had been implanted (by the Kaminoans or by Dooku or Palpatine or unknown covert agents) that went by the name of Order 66.  I've always looked at Order 66 as not so much a rule that the Clones were taught, but as sort of a post-hypnotic suggestion on a genetic level that the Clones were not aware of.  A good example of this would be on (I think) the second season of "Alias" where the idea of "sleeper agents" was explored.

Since the Clones had no knowledge that they would betray the Jedi, the Jedi did not sense their betrayal in any way.  If you notice, Cody was very friendly and exhibited no behavior that would imply he had ever been trained to kill Obi-Wan until the moment that Palpatine contacted him with "Execute Order Sixty-Six."  At that moment, he does what he was programmed to do without his knowledge, as do the rest of the Clone Army.  The Jedi didn't sense it because until Palpatine flipped the switch in the Clones' heads, there was nothing to sense.

And how did Yoda sense it, while the others didn't?  My idea on that has to do with the structure of that sequence as a whole.  Each Jedi is shown being gunned down in some way, shape, or form by their Clone Troopers, except Yoda.  The first shot of Yoda we get in the Order 66 montage is of him feeling an intense disturbance in the Force and dropping his cane.  So, by being so innately connected to the Force itself (and by Palpatine not contacting Gree on Kashyyyk first), he knew that something serious was wrong and had time to prepare.  The fact that Gree and the Scout Trooper actually walked over to Yoda rather than simply firing on him, giving them a moment to create intent in their own consciousness, allowed Yoda all the time he needed to defuse the situation before it began.

So, there you go.  Hope that made sense to someone else besides me. :)

Offline Tracy

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Re: Wouldn't the Jedi have sensed it?
« Reply #3 on: September 6, 2005, 07:23 AM »
Excellent explanation ;D  I agree.  To sum it up, the ROTS novelization states:
War itself puts darkness into the Force, deepening the cloud that limits Jedi perception.  And the clones have no malice, no hatred, not the slightest ill intent that might give warning.  They are only following orders.
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Offline Darth_Anton

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Re: Wouldn't the Jedi have sensed it?
« Reply #4 on: September 7, 2005, 02:11 PM »
This has been a major point of contention for me and a major reason why I feel the PT failed spectacularly. I think the Jedi should have sensed these mindless, focused drones who were broadcating their intentions as subtily as Rush Limbaugh. People have expressed many compitant explainations as to how the jedi could have been taken out so easily, but the plain and simple truth is that those explainations did not come accross well at all in the film. In the entire PT, only a handfull of lines eluded to the fact that the Jedi were not what they once were, but the implied impact was never felt enough to show just how serious these problems were. Lucas was trying to play both sides, he showed you the Jedi's were heroes, but told you there were flawed. We tend to believe what we see, that's why when the Jedi got taken out like amature swordsmen, it was like a slap in the face for people like me who bought into the mythology that the Jedi were superior beings.
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Offline Tracy

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Re: Wouldn't the Jedi have sensed it?
« Reply #5 on: September 7, 2005, 02:23 PM »
We tend to believe what we see, that's why when the Jedi got taken out like amature swordsmen, it was like a slap in the face for people like me who bought into the mythology that the Jedi were superior beings.

I'm with you on that.  Before the PT, I always thought the Jedi were above others, someone to be revered.  To the point that I thought it was odd that Luke didn't seem that impressed when Obi Wan told him his father was once a Jedi.  Though they were all but extinct at that point, I always thought that stories of them would have been legendary.  That the Jedi would have been regarded almost as folk heros.  I would've liked to see them go down defending what was left of the Republic.  I think a great disservice was done not only to the mythology of the Jedi, but also to the character of Padme too.  I thought she was going to rise up as the "mother" of the alliance.
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