Author Topic: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)  (Read 21067 times)

Offline Jesse James

  • Staff Member
  • Grand Master
  • *
  • Posts: 31670
  • Slippery When Poopy
    • View Profile
    • JediDefender.com
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2005, 12:28 AM »
I like the AT-TE Gunner a lot for diversity's sake, but that's comparing it agains the #6 and #41 sculpts that shipped with it.  So to that end, I'm disappointed in no really good carded 501st Clone...  SA or #6 would've suited me fine really, and I hope it happens at some point.  I'll get a handful of the TE Gunner sculpt of these but they won't be something I want more than 10 of...  I'll hope for a repaint of one of the other sculpts at some point (I don't count the 5-pack since you get stuck with 2 figures you don't necessarilly want).

BTW I agree that the Target Clone's sculpt (CW Clone with E3 helmet) is being basically wasted right now if the supposed "excuse" is true that they are low on production capabilities for Clones.  Put that baby to good use and crank out some 501st Troopers en masse for us.  Ship them alongside the TE Gunner sculpt even.
2011 Rebel Fleet Trooper Gets My Seal Of Approval!  But Where's The Friggin' Holster On Him!?
Jedi Defender.com Contributing Editor, Twitter @JediDefender & @Jesse_James77

Offline jokabofe

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 3653
    • View Profile
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2005, 12:36 AM »
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I actually like the #38 sculpt/body... the removeable helmet is a nice feature, and the sculpt is pretty good. That said, I'd have prefered the #41 Clone been used for this, but I'll take the #38 over the #6 body anyday. They could have just cranked out #6 repaints (again) and not thought twice about it, so for that at least I'm glad.

What really is the problem with the #38 Clone though? I don't understand why so many people hate this figure....  ???

SilverZ

  • Guest
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #62 on: September 21, 2005, 01:32 AM »
The arms, mostly. They're preposed in a way that is baffling when you consider the figure is a Collection 2 sculpt. You get everything you'd want out of a clone sculpt, and then you cripple it with shoddy elbow articulation and a piss-poor left shoulder joint that is on a quality level with bootlegs.

I dislike the #38 enough that I've moved the pauldrom and head thinger over to #41s, and I'm no customizer.

Offline ruiner

  • Jedi Master
  • *
  • Posts: 5023
  • raised to be lowered
    • View Profile
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #63 on: September 21, 2005, 09:39 AM »
I, too, was baffled by the poor sculpt that is the AT-TE gunner.  The leg articulation is superior, but then you move up to the arms and think "WTF!"  You move the arms and they fall off and the poseability is horrible!

I'd rather have the articulation in the upper body vs. the lower body. 

Great looking figure - just poorly executed.


Offline DoctorPadawan

  • Jedi Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 1957
  • Get that poison out of your system
    • View Profile
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #64 on: September 21, 2005, 09:48 AM »
The entire torso of the AT-TE Gunner body just looks bizarre to me when you compare it with the 41 body.  Aside from the fact that it has no waist articulation at all, it seems bulkier than it should be, and as Jared mentioned, the lack/style of arm articulation and the bizarre pose is unacceptable in a Collection 2 figure.  I would give up the ball-jointed hips in a second if it meant having the pauldron and removable helmet on a SA body.

Also, the plastic they used on the AT-TE Gunner seems a lot less sturdy and of poorer quality than the plastic used on all of the Collection 1 Clones.  Since day one I've had problems with my Gunner's right arm coming loose at the elbow joint, and the knee joints in particular are a lot more loose than any of the Collection 1 Clones.  I'm really happy that I got the JTA Battle Pack now (I have no problem with the #6 Clone body personally) that I know the basic carded version is going to be based on an inferior product, both sculpt and quality-wise.

Offline LandotheScoundrel

  • Jedi Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 1951
  • Now with winning smile!
    • View Profile
    • Politis Design
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #65 on: September 21, 2005, 10:06 AM »
Here's a great idea, why couldn't Hasbro have put the AT-TE Gunner's legs on the #41 body? Then everyone on planet Earth would be happy with their clones.
-------------------------------------------------
"Why you slimy, double-crossin' no-good swindler!"

www.politisdesign.com

Offline DoctorPadawan

  • Jedi Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 1957
  • Get that poison out of your system
    • View Profile
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2005, 11:38 AM »
Here's a great idea, why couldn't Hasbro have put the AT-TE Gunner's legs on the #41 body? Then everyone on planet Earth would be happy with their clones.

Hasbro has, 99 percent of the time, always done figures that are almost perfect, but that usually have one small area that could be improved upon, thus giving them the ability to release yet another Vader/Luke/Han/Obi-Wan/etc. a few years down the line.  If they did an "ultimate" figure that made everyone happy, they'd never be able to redo that figure and have people be interested in it.

Good examples of this in recent memory:

-Evolutions Episode III Anakin (no ball jointed elbows but otherwise great)
-Evolutions Darth Maul (no ball jointed elbows but otherwise great)
-Episode III Threepio (no knee or elbow articulation, but otherwise great)
-Evolutions Darth Vader (shorter than should be but otherwise great)

If they put ball-jointed hips and a removable helmet on a 41 SA Clone body, they'd be unable to really improve upon it in future versions, and for some reason the money they could save by doing that to begin with and just cranking out more and more of them as demand, well, demands it instead of devoting more money to a new mold with a minor improvement doesn't enter into Hasbro's minds. 

I think they were fully aware that people wanted the 41 Clone body, and instead of doing that to begin with, they used an inferior mold so they could go back and rerelease it on the 41 body in a few years.  That way, they'd get more money out of the Tank Gunner mold, they'd get big sales (assuming retail actually gets these in any decent amount) out of the box, and still be guaranteed sales a few years from now with the 41 body being used.   :-\

Offline Darby

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 3384
  • I like big books and I cannot lie
    • View Profile
    • http://darby-harn.blogspot.com/
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #67 on: September 21, 2005, 01:44 PM »
I can almost understand Hasbro's reluctance to do the ultimate figure of anything, since they probably don't want to put a cap on something when they think they have years left in the line.  But with the clones, any one ultimate body will yield massive results, as we see just from the exclusive bonanza this year.  Hasbro can make an ultimate clone and repaint him indefinitely, which has to be cheaper than making a new body every single time.

Offline DoctorPadawan

  • Jedi Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 1957
  • Get that poison out of your system
    • View Profile
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #68 on: September 21, 2005, 04:35 PM »
I can almost understand Hasbro's reluctance to do the ultimate figure of anything, since they probably don't want to put a cap on something when they think they have years left in the line.

The thing that I was wondering about though is this: if Hasbro did an "ultimate" version of a main character, wouldn't it save them money in the long run by having one figure they could rerelease 14000 times so they wouldn't have any need to go back and do a completely new mold every time they wanted to release it?

Let's say that Hasbro said "Let's do the ultimate ROTS-era Obi-Wan Kenobi" (which in my eyes, they've done with the Pilot Obi-Wan).  The figure is perfect in every way, with no real room for improvement outside of possibly a cloth cloak.  Due to this figure being made, they never again have to do a new mold of ROTS-era Obi-Wan because they always have the "perfect" mold to fall back on.  This frees up more development dollars that they would have spent on another mold, and they can make more characters that normally wouldn't get made.

Even though the SA Obi-Wan might be a bit more costly now that it's a new piece, in a hypothetical 10 years from now, they will still be making money on it from collectors both old and new: old collectors will buy it due to the packaging change, and new collectors will be thrilled to get a great Obi-Wan from ROTS that doesn't kick or slash.  I would think it would cost Hasbro less and in turn, give them more profit in the long-run to do one perfect sculpt and reissue, reissue, reissue, than it would to do 10 different sculpts of the same character with not a single one achieving perfection.

If you look at the Clones released thus far in the ROTS line, a lot of money could have been saved had Hasbro simply had a SA Clone body that they could repaint 50 thousand times into all the different batallions.  Use the same body and head for the Utapau clones, the Coruscant gray clones, the Shocktroopers, the 501st, and any other EU Clone designs, and be done with it.  Instead, they release two different Clone sculpts (6 and 41), they rerelease the CW SA Clone body with a ROTS head, and keep cranking out those EU PVC 3-packs.

I think the truth of the matter is that Hasbro had a mold (the AT-TE Gunner) that although it had some obvious flaws, had only been utilized once while the other Clone molds had been used two or three times already.  Instead of using the 41 mold for the third time, they would rather use the 38 mold for the second time, so they could get more money out of that mold.  But then if they'd only done one Clone Grunt mold to begin with, they'd be making far more money off that mold than they would off 4 different Clone Trooper molds rereleased multiple times.

Offline jokabofe

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 3653
    • View Profile
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2005, 07:00 PM »
But then if they'd only done one Clone Grunt mold to begin with, they'd be making far more money off that mold than they would off 4 different Clone Trooper molds rereleased multiple times.

Exactly. They should have just made the #41 Clone with the #38 legs and removable helmet from the start. And then they could have gone re-paint crazy with it - Shocktroopers, Commanders in every color of the Rainbow, Bly, Gree, 501st... I could go on and on, and so could Hasbro. And I think that would have made at least 90% of the people happy.., because we all know that you can't please all the people, all the time.

SilverZ

  • Guest
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2005, 07:01 PM »
I think part of the reason your logical (and well thought out) plan does not figure into Hasbro’s current release strategy are, unfortunately, the marketing minds – opposed to product development or even (gasp) financial ones -- driving the line. My personal belief is that a PD person would be in touch enough to know that consumers will want the SA Clone for this particular variant, as it allows for the most movie-accurate pose recreations. From a financial perspective, keeping one version of a figure in constant production, with only paint application variations in rotation, would presumably be more cost effective than using multiple toolings and paint variations during wholly separate runs over time.

Or so I would, in my toy production and manufacturing ignorance, have the balls to presume.

I’ve got to think that someone stepped in and thought the #38 body would be good from a line variety standpoint, in some misguided idea that, as you detailed, sculpt variety on the clones trumps logical implementation of the appropriate sculpt.

I never saw a 501st in the film with a removable helmet, but I saw some standing, some kneeling, some reeling over backwards being hacked apart, and overall just running rampant in the Jedi Temple. I’d like a figure that can do as much of that as possible. The #41 can address most of that. The #38 can do a lot of that, providing he keeps both hands on his gun and drawn at all times.

There was obviously every intention of using the SA clone body for the figure at some point. Unless paint samples are a separate enough process that using “similar” figures is an acceptable practice. I can’t imagine they painted a #41 just for the hell of it or to just **** with us… Would they?

This would all be much less dramatic if they had shown a sample at CC05 using the body intended for production. This means they had two incorrect figures there – this, and the AOTC Evo Clone using the #38 body. Odd.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2005, 07:03 PM by Jared (Tydirium) »

Offline Ook

  • Jedi Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 1499
    • View Profile
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #71 on: September 21, 2005, 07:26 PM »
I might buy 2 of these, but they just don't cut it. After the shock trooper, I've sworn off those ****** #6s. I'll be learning to paint real soon.

Offline Jeff

  • Administrator
  • Jedi Council Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20407
  • things get damaged
    • View Profile
    • www.JediDefender.com
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #72 on: October 3, 2005, 10:59 AM »
Hasbro must have heard that all the fans aren't planning on buying as many of these as the once thought...

I was checking EE this morning to look for new stuff and I noticed that they made a few changes to the case assortments for wave 6. 

Most notably, the wave 1, revision 0 case no longer will have 3x #65 501st Clone.  Instead there will be 1x #18 C-3PO and 2x #65.   That seems like a really strange substitution... take out a clone, add a 3PO?  :-\

Also, the revision 1 case which had 2x #65 and a bunch of repacks was CANCELLED.   :-\

Editor-in-Chief  - www.JediDefender.com
Follow me on Twitter - @jedidefender / @jlsmentek

Offline Darth_Anton

  • Jedi General
  • *
  • Posts: 9834
  • Whatever
    • View Profile
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #73 on: October 3, 2005, 12:49 PM »
Hasbro must have heard that all the fans aren't planning on buying as many of these as the once thought...

I was checking EE this morning to look for new stuff and I noticed that they made a few changes to the case assortments for wave 6. 

Most notably, the wave 1, revision 0 case no longer will have 3x #65 501st Clone.  Instead there will be 1x #18 C-3PO and 2x #65.   That seems like a really strange substitution... take out a clone, add a 3PO?  :-\

Also, the revision 1 case which had 2x #65 and a bunch of repacks was CANCELLED.   :-\



Sounds like bad news to me. I sincerely hope that these hit while I'm on the east coast, maybe I'll have a better shot at getting them.
"Snark is the idiot's version of wit."

Offline jokabofe

  • Jedi Knight
  • *
  • Posts: 3653
    • View Profile
Re: #65 Tactical Ops Trooper (501st)
« Reply #74 on: October 3, 2005, 11:21 PM »
Sounds like bad news to me. I sincerely hope that these hit while I'm on the east coast, maybe I'll have a better shot at getting them.

HA!!

Don't count on it. Most of the "new" stuff I get is from some of the So Cal guys here in this forum...