Author Topic: He died the same time as your father.  (Read 2158 times)

Offline Hemish

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He died the same time as your father.
« on: October 13, 2005, 11:13 AM »
I was watching starwars again tonight with my kids , and for some reason i cant really put my finger on it , but that line from Uncle Owen just didnt seem right.
He knew that Obiwan was still alive, he would have know that as far as Obiwan knew that Anakin was dead. Makes me wonder if anything happened between the two of them between eps 3 an 4.
Obiwan telling Luke , your father wanted you to have this but your uncle wouldnt allow it.
Thats the other one that now bugs the crap outta me.
Old ObiWan could sure tell some good fibs, from his point of view.
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Offline Diddly

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2005, 06:24 PM »
There was an EXTREMELY ****** EU explaination for this. Be prepared to go chest deep into crap!

In some comic, Luke is about 1-2 years old. It's a quiet morning on Tatooine. Suddenly, as Beru is picking mushrooms off the vaporators, Darth Maul, with a robotic lower half attacks them. Yes, you read that right. DARTH MAUL WITH A ROBOTIC LOWER HALF. He was sent to kill Luke, I think.

So Obi-Wan appears (already looking like Alec Guiness, even though this is supposed to be 1-2 years after ROTS), and after a while, defeats the robotic Maul. Owen yells at Obi-Wan about the whole Maul thing being entirely his fault, and tells him to stay away from Luke forever.

So yeah, pretty crappy explaination there. Hopefully this helps some.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2005, 12:31 AM »
So mind-numbingly-stupid EU stories aside (I'd not read, but knew of the robotic Maul, but holy christ that's one of the worst plot lines I've ever heard for SW EU), I've pretty much been under the assumption that Owen knew a lot more about everything in the galaxy than the average Joe Schmoe would have...  Perfect place to hide Luke then since he's a backwater kid with backwater adoptive planets on a backwater planet...  but Owen's just more in-the-know than one assumes.

Kinda like how Tarkin has that connection to Vader that nobody else but Palpatine seemed to share with him (on-screen anyway), so it was like you could just tell Tarkin knows more about the past than the average guy does.

Anyways...

I figure Obi-Wan and Owen did have some disagreements.  He perhaps (likely?) knew Obi-Wan was staying by to groom Luke to the "new hope" but knew of his step-brother's collapse, figured the same fate would follow Luke...  I'm sure he did everything possible to keep Luke from Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan kept his distance most likely till he knew it was the right time.  Obi-Wan lies but Owen certainly did too, but everyone seems to lie to Luke for his own good...  Given what they're working with and what his father turned out to be, it's not surprising that they didn't want to tell him everything...  I'm sure they felt like they were playing with fire as far as Luke was concerned since things went so great with Anakin and all. :)
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Offline Nathan

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2005, 01:26 AM »
EU Defender riding to the rescue....

That story was in "Visionaries", a collection of short comics stories that, as the title suggests, don't all necessarily fit into continuity--much like the now-defunct Tales. Some, like the Kashyyyk story immediately predating the invasion of Kashyyyk, seem to fit well enough, but others like the Maul story ... well, not so much. I believe the Maul story (which was reasonably entertaining if you throw canon out the window) was supposed to be more an exploration of a "what-if" scenario, because even in the EU they'd never bring back a robo-Maul for "real".

« Last Edit: October 14, 2005, 01:27 AM by Valin Kenobi »
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Offline inadvertent imitation

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2005, 02:17 AM »
I think I read in the ANH novelization that Obi-Wan comes by every so often attempting to give Luke his father's lightsaber, and Owen shoos him away, trying to keep Luke on the farm, away from the truth. But it's been a good ten years since I've read it, so I'm not sure.

A little off-topic, but the thing that always bugged me about the OT was the "point of view" thing Obi-Wan was blabbering about in ROTJ. I just don't know why he didn't say "yes, I lied, but if you knew Vader was your father then, you would have followed his same path" or something. That point-of-view speech just seems like a cop-out on Lucas' part to me.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2005, 02:59 AM »
What I did like about the POV speech though, is that to Obi-Wan I've always envisioned him as never having any inkling of hope or feeling (through the force or whatnot) that Anakin was anything but Vader...  He looked at Anakin as dead, and really I think emotion actually clouded Obi-Wan (it's fun to look at the heroes as flawed characters like that I think).  Luke could feel it...  And maybe it's that emotional attachment Luke has that actually empowers him to the point that he can see good in Vader/Anakin whereas Obi-Wan's emotional tie to Anakin blinds him to any possibility of Anakin being able to be found or saved.

To Obi, he's dead and the thing that is Vader isn't even the same person...  To Luke, he's so tied to Vader that he actually can feel something about him Obi-Wan can't...  So to that end the "certain POV" didn't bother me.  It's Obi-Wan defending himself is all, but conceding to Luke's feelings somewhat now that he sees Luke maybe is onto something.
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Offline blaster_e11

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2005, 03:51 AM »
there are scholastic books about obiwan's early days on tatooine, not the best source of information but u may find something in those
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Offline Nathan

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2005, 11:21 AM »
There are also a handful of older comics (mostly in Tales and various "anthologies") dealing with Obi-Wan meeting young Lukie and getting run off by Owen.
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Offline Angry Ewok

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2005, 05:52 PM »
I've always looked at it like this, Obi-Wan Kenobi did die at about the same time as Anakin Skywalker. Losing Anakin to the Dark Side was a terrible thing, I'm sure a major part of Obi-Wan's spirit died with Anakin... certainly when news came about that the Jedi were all but whiped out...

Just the look on Obi-Wan's face at the end of ROTS tells me that he's just tired of the constant warring - I think he found it easier to run away from everything than perhaps Yoda did.

So I say, from a certain point of view, Obi-Wan died, along with his brother, and friend, Anakin.

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Offline Reid

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2005, 10:37 AM »
I have a very simple explanation: Owen just didn't want Luke to know about Obi. Easy as that. And I have read the Visionaries Graphic Novel and I thought ressurecting Maul a second time was a bit too much. What next, Maul gets reborn on Kashykkk by a Lando clone, Laando, peeing on him?

Offline LandotheScoundrel

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #10 on: October 18, 2005, 05:09 PM »
I have a very simple explanation: Owen just didn't want Luke to know about Obi. Easy as that. And I have read the Visionaries Graphic Novel and I thought ressurecting Maul a second time was a bit too much. What next, Maul gets reborn on Kashykkk by a Lando clone, Laando, peeing on him?

Incidently, Lando was originally supposed to be a clone leftover from the Clone Wars, and Leia didn't trust him because of it. Wieeeerrrrrrd.
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2005, 09:06 AM »
I've always looked at it like this, Obi-Wan Kenobi did die at about the same time as Anakin Skywalker. Losing Anakin to the Dark Side was a terrible thing, I'm sure a major part of Obi-Wan's spirit died with Anakin... certainly when news came about that the Jedi were all but whiped out...

Just the look on Obi-Wan's face at the end of ROTS tells me that he's just tired of the constant warring - I think he found it easier to run away from everything than perhaps Yoda did.

So I say, from a certain point of view, Obi-Wan died, along with his brother, and friend, Anakin.



I agree with this view of it... Obi-wan did "die" and became "Ben" Kenobi the Hermit.

Offline Ginanalbri

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2005, 08:49 PM »
Obi-wan did not die he was still a jedi master. he had to change his name for protection.
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Offline Gatillo

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2005, 10:37 PM »
True true Obi-Wan Kenobi and Ben Kenobi are really different.  I guess Kenobi is like Smith. :-\
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: He died the same time as your father.
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2005, 11:09 PM »
That's an interesting way to look at it...  I'd agree with it too that Obi-Wan's "dead" in that "certain point of view" way he liked so much.  He probably got a kcik out of doing nothing for so long.

Dead not in the literal sense, but dead in most everyone's eyes (even Vader's perhaps, though I'm sure his mind probably didn't allow him to assume Obi was dead without seeing proof).  Tarkin certainly believed Kenobi dead...  I think about the only people who didn't think Obi was dead were the Lars', Vader, and perhaps Palpatine.
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