Author Topic: Covert Ops Clone Trooper  (Read 17634 times)

Offline Jeff

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #60 on: August 30, 2005, 04:17 PM »
Yeah but people LOVED the Unleashed line and supported it and then Hasbro cut it… we just can't win  :'(

Yep.  We're damned if we do, we're damned if we don't.  More proof that Hasbro just does what it wants and if that occasionally happens to be what the fans want, well then that's just a bonus.   :P
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Offline Dressel Rebel

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #61 on: August 30, 2005, 04:18 PM »
I'm really hoping this thing falls flat on it's face, because there has to be a ceiling to all this craziness.  They're really starting to price these things too high to enjoy.  I don't want it to feel like I'm paying for a lobster dinner for two everytime I go to order a $5 action figure.

You said the same thing about the Target Clone. I highly doubt this will fall flat on its face. Too many people want clones. Thats why we have these EU ones. Its more like REU. Reeeeally Expanded Universe.

Hey, I doubt it too.  That's not a prediction, that's a pipe dream.  I'm in no way predicting that the sales will be poor.  Though it hasn't exactly been warmly received among the JD group of collectors, that's for sure.

When the Target clone was released however, I did predict that since tons of you guys were running out to Target with DCPI numbers in hand and Target was selling out of these things before they could even hit the sales floor, there would be more of them.  That is what the real problem is here.  And this clone is up for sale for $19 shipped because the last $13 Target clone was an enormous success for Hasbro.  Had we left them on the pegs collecting dust like they deserved, this clone would have never happened at this price point.

This notion that collectors on message boards saying that we want more clones meant that Hasbro suddenly decided to give us more clones, but to raise the price from $5 to $13 per figure (or $19 shipped for this newest abomination) is just crazy talk.  Nowhere in suggesting more clones did we say we'd be willing to pay 2.5x what we were paying before the exclusive fad started.  Buying $13 regularly carded figures said that.

All I can say right now, is that as pissed off as I am over this, I'm relatively subdued because it's all EU garbage that I don't want anyhow.

But people who buy these are filling out permission slips en masse for movie characters to be sold this way, that is for certain.

But when you really think about it, the $13 clone wasn't the root of this, the Jorg Sacul and other silver show exclusive figures really started it.  Hologram this, lava that, silver this and that.  Those were all priced way above the $5 (or less in some cases) that they're worth.  Even that 300th Boba Fett and Deluxe Amanaman for $10 each were really just $5 figures. 
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 04:25 PM by Dressel Rebel »
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Online Nicklab

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #62 on: August 30, 2005, 04:35 PM »
If things like this are completely inexcusable...don't buy them. Plain and simple. If enough people are outraged and make it known by not buying these products then Hasbro will get the point.

If you don't like it don't buy it.  That sounds all fine and good, but doesn't it run the risk of creating a brand new problem...

For example, what do you do?

Buy the $14 Clone Trooper you hate to show your support for the idea of a Clone Trooper line of figures that might one day give us Utapau, Kashyykk, and Mygeeto Clones.
-or-
Pass on the $14 Clone Trooper you hate and then suck it up when Hasbro says "Oh, we've cancelled the Clone Trooper line we had planned because they didn't sell well".   :-\

Whether it's the Cinema/Screen Scenes or the Wal-Mart Cantina Packs or something else, we hear something like "Oh, we cancelled wave 2 because there was no demand for wave 1" - Well no **** sherlock, you packed rehashes no one wanted in the first wave and put the newer figures in Wave 2 and 3.   ::)

Either way, we lose on crap like this.  Either you buy **** you don't like to "support the line" or you pass it and then suck it up when line X gets cancelled due to "poor support".  

Let's look at the reasons why this particular piece and other exclusive figures are priced the way they are:

-First and foremost we're talking about a retail or online retail promotion.  An exclusive is designed to be a promotional tool to attract buyers to a certain outlet.  It's designed to be both a promotional item and a profitable one.  Hence the higher price.

-Unit Cost.  The cost of producing these figures is going to be higher.  Since they're exclusives they are going to be limited to a smaller production run than a figure in the Basic Figure line.  The profitability of a Basic Figure is based on a relatively large production run that's sold in volume in numerous case assortments.  A larger run of a given Basic Figure is cheaper to produce since manufacturers tend to discount bulk orders.  Smaller, more specialized orders tend to cost more per unit.  That increased cost for Hasbro is then passed on to the consumer.

-Special Features.  This figure has special features whether we care to admit it or not.  It has new paint apps, new packaging and the additional Star Case thrown in.  Those additional features further drive up the cost of this item.

-The Retailer.  Take a look at which retailers are pricing in what manner.  Because when an exclusive like this is proposed both Hasbro and the retailer have a hand in setting the price point.  Toys R Us has actually been somewhat reasonable with the prices of exclusive figures.  They've set a price point of $9.99 per unit (Holo Yoda, Silver figures).  Target and Star Wars Shop have set different prices.  This is where you can really make your voice heard.  If the $9.99 price point for an exclusive figure is acceptable to you, then patronize those retail outlets.  If the $14.99 price is too high for you, then don't partake in those exclusives.  Hasbro will see that pattern emerge and will work accordingly with retailers on future exclusives to price them at a point that the market will bear.
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Offline Jeff

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #63 on: August 30, 2005, 04:58 PM »
All that mumbledy-jumbledy about exclusives is fine and good.  I think everyone understands WHY exclusives are at a higher price, no one is debating unit cost or exclusivity.

Everyone knows why exclusives cost more (Dressel said it best) - putting aside all the businessy reasons, it comes down to the fact that the retailers know we'll pay the higher price.  We proved it with the vOTC, with the Target figures, etc, etc, etc.


My problem still lies NOT with the idea of having an exclusives (even over-priced ones), but with the character selection of the exclusives.  It seems like all these exclusives are just re-hashed crap.

If you were going to launch an exclusive line of Clone Troopers, wouldn't you make a smarter pick than "Utapau Shadow Trooper" or "Covert Ops" Trooper?  I guess Hasbro knows the movie accurate clones will sell as basic figures, so they don't waste them on exclusives. 

I guess that is the one shining light in this whole thing is that (SO FAR) these exclusives have been things that are either A) Expanded Universe / Made Up or b) are re-hashes (Lava, Silver, Holo figs, Mustafar Duel figs).

So, I guess we are just thankful that MORE of the exclusives aren't new stuff, or it'd be a lot harder to pass them up even at the higher prices...
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Offline Nathan

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #64 on: August 30, 2005, 04:59 PM »
If things like this are completely inexcusable...don't buy them.  Plain and simple.  If enough people are outraged and make it known by not buying these products then Hasbro will get the point.

You're preaching to the choir here. ;)

Quote
There's no excuse for doing this crap before all the film characters have been done. (Well, besides short-term monetary gain.)

When did Hasbro stop being a business and become a charity?  We have to deal with reality here.[/size]

The emphasis was on short-term gain. They're pissing off collectors and thereby killing their own target market. It's the whole "goose that laid the golden egg" thing--long-term happy customers versus squeezing out every last cent in the short term.

Quote from: Nicklab
Unit Cost.  The cost of producing these figures is going to be higher.  Since they're exclusives they are going to be limited to a smaller production run than a figure in the Basic Figure line.  The profitability of a Basic Figure is based on a relatively large production run that's sold in volume in numerous case assortments.  A larger run of a given Basic Figure is cheaper to produce since manufacturers tend to discount bulk orders.  Smaller, more specialized orders tend to cost more per unit.  That increased cost for Hasbro is then passed on to the consumer.

So make a reasonably large production run--not Sooper-Limited scalper bait like the recent Target exclusives. They bitch and whine about "small production runs" and then do it to themselves by only minting 10,000 or whatever.

Granted, this doesn't apply every time since not all exclusives are limited editions, but it seems like far too many are....

Quote
-Special Features.  This figure has special features whether we care to admit it or not.  It has new paint apps, new packaging and the additional Star Case thrown in.  Those additional features further drive up the cost of this item.

Most recent exclusives aren't that special. (Except obviously the few with entirely new molds, like the TIE.)

No matter how you crunch the numbers, you can't convince me that sticking a few red ovals on an existing clonetrooper is more difficult or expensive than painting any basic figure like, say, Commander Gree which has far more extensive apps.

And screw those stupid Star Cases. No offense intended towards people who use them, but there's no reason to force non-carded collectors to buy something we don't need. If you, the individual collector, want SCs, then by all means go out and buy them. But leaving them off the figure should shave a buck or two off the price.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 05:02 PM by Valin Kenobi »
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Offline DoctorPadawan

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2005, 06:45 PM »
First of all, I am honored to be your signature file, Nathan.   ;)

Secondly, I was able to successfully cancel my SWS.com order for the Covert Ops Trooper.  The more I thought about it, the less I could justify paying through the nose for something that didn't even resemble any of the Clones in the film, much less a paint scheme I would have expected on a Batman figure from 1997.  No real hassle with SWS this time either, which kind of surprised me, as their cancellation system isn't exactly user friendly.

Thirdly (last numerical designation), my main gripe as the days go by with this figure (and the Stealth Clone at Target) is that not more than two months ago, Hasbro claimed that they did not have the ability to utilize the SA Clone body and just crank out more Clones at retail, yet here they are now doing exactly that, only at a much more inflated price. 

Way to go, Hasbro: you get the gas face.  :P


Offline Jon

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2005, 09:38 PM »
Ha! You didn't get the hidden message here?!They couldn't utilize the SA body only because they HAD it reserved for these moneysuckin' exclusives! ;D

Offline Darby

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2005, 10:52 PM »
I think everybody saw through that excuse to begin with, and now it's just obvious.  Hasbro seems really greedy with these things, like they're trying to get it all in before the party is over.  It will be if they keep alienating (some) collectors.

Online Nicklab

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #68 on: August 31, 2005, 12:03 AM »
All that mumbledy-jumbledy about exclusives is fine and good.  I think everyone understands WHY exclusives are at a higher price, no one is debating unit cost or exclusivity.

Everyone knows why exclusives cost more (Dressel said it best) - putting aside all the businessy reasons, it comes down to the fact that the retailers know we'll pay the higher price.  We proved it with the vOTC, with the Target figures, etc, etc, etc.

Sometimes the why should be explained.  I don't think everyone's aware of why some of these things cost what they do.

Are the retailers taking advantage?  Possibly.  Originally, exclusives were designed as a gimmick to get more foot traffic in the stores.  They get people soliciting a store on a more frequent basis hunting for exclusives and that will usually translate into greater overall sales.  But time and experience with all of these exclusives has shown plenty of execs at Hasbro as well as at the retail chains that collectors will pay the price for exclusives.  Like I said before, they're businesses, not charities.  They're out to make a buck, pure and simple.  We should never question that motivation.

And while you're busy blaming Hasbro and the retailers, make sure you blame Lucasfilm too.  After all, Lucasfilm licensing has to approve each product.  And remember that Uncle George also owns a substantial stake in Hasbro as part of the licensing agreement.  He's got just as much of a vested interest in Hasbro being profitable as he does in Lucasfilm being a leader in the film industry.

All of this being said, do I like this situation?  No.  I'm on a budget like a lot of other people.  But I think you have to go into this with your eyes open and try to have an understanding of the situation.  Why things are the way they are is a very important question.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2005, 12:15 AM by Nicklab »
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Offline Nathan

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #69 on: September 1, 2005, 12:55 AM »
I came across this emoticon and it seemed relevant here:

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Offline Tijuanajedi

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2005, 10:11 PM »
Hey Im getting one, **** it!!!

Offline Gatillo

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #71 on: September 15, 2005, 09:10 AM »
This clone trooper is as cool as xmas Vader
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Offline Dressel Rebel

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #72 on: September 15, 2005, 10:20 PM »
First of all, I am honored to be your signature file, Nathan.   ;)



Was Doc Padawan also the one who said, "Hey Hasbro!  How about dinner and a movie before you bend me over and screw me?!?!!"
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Offline DoctorPadawan

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #73 on: September 15, 2005, 10:45 PM »
Was Doc Padawan also the one who said, "Hey Hasbro! How about dinner and a movie before you bend me over and screw me?!?!!"

I can't remember exactly, but I don't think I said that in particular.  After all the endless Hasbro-bashing that I do, things tend to blur.   ;D


Offline Ner_vod

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Re: Covert Ops Clone Trooper
« Reply #74 on: September 17, 2005, 11:58 AM »
here's the next "Exclusive" Covert Ops Clone Trooper




"covert ops clone" Mission: Infilitrate the skittles rainbow with stealth and camo.