Author Topic: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies  (Read 86393 times)

Offline Brian

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1230 on: February 20, 2014, 08:49 PM »
Sounds like Fox has chosen their new Fantastic Four (for the reboot on the way next year):

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/20/fox-sets-fantastic-four-reboot-cast

Mr. Fantastic/Reed Richards - Miles Teller
Invisible Woman/Susan Storm - Kate Mara
Human Torch/Johnny Storm - Michael B. Jordan
The Thing/Ben Grimm - Jamie Bell

Offline McMetal

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1231 on: February 20, 2014, 10:24 PM »
Sounds like Fox has chosen their new Fantastic Four (for the reboot on the way next year):

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/02/20/fox-sets-fantastic-four-reboot-cast

Mr. Fantastic/Reed Richards - Miles Teller
Invisible Woman/Susan Storm - Kate Mara
Human Torch/Johnny Storm - Michael B. Jordan
The Thing/Ben Grimm - Jamie Bell

Unbelievable suckitude. They actually found a way to make the previous cast look good in retrospect.

And I'm sorry, but Johnny Storm is white and should be cast accordingly. It creates too many unnecessary distractions/questions about the whole familial link with him and Sue. It just doesn't fit the story in this case.

My all time favorite comic and they can't get it right for the big screen...crushing.
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Offline JediJman

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1232 on: February 21, 2014, 01:45 AM »
I have always... and apparently will always... dislike the FF.
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Offline Qui-Gon Jim

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1233 on: February 21, 2014, 07:18 AM »
Ugh.  Fox just doesn't get it.  Why swap the race of a super-main character other than to get people talking?  THIS is exactly what pisses the core fans off, their utter disregard for the characters.  While a character like, say, Hawkeye isn't exactly like his comic counterpart, Feige and the others didn't go, "hmm...  let's make him a woman.  That's creative!"

I am not one for slavish devotion to the source material, but stunts like this are ridiculous.
 

Offline JediJman

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1234 on: February 21, 2014, 09:58 AM »
I guess the role of Dr. Doom will be played by a small, uptight pony.
"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason. " -Jack Handey

Offline BillCable

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1235 on: February 21, 2014, 10:18 AM »
I have no problem with them casting a black guy as Johnny Storm.  He was great in Chronicle.  Really good energy.  He fits the character well.

As for him and Sue - maybe step-siblings?  Maybe they're half-brother and sister.  Not really a big deal.

I'm honestly less of a fan of Sue's casting... I've seen her in a number of roles and I've never liked her much.
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Offline evenflow

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1236 on: February 22, 2014, 08:34 PM »
I have a problem with them changing stuff for the sake of changing it. I won't go see it and think its a pretty awful cast. The characters were written a certain way and should stay that way. It like doing a new Blade or a Black Panther movie and making them white. I am completely against it.
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Offline BillCable

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1237 on: February 22, 2014, 10:02 PM »
Who says they're changing it "for the sake of changing it"?  Did the director or screenwriter state that?  Or are you jumping to a conclusion with no evidence?

Trank worked with Jordan on Chronicle.  Jordan was FANTASTIC in Chronicle.  So maybe Trank decided that he wanted to work with this great actor again and wasn't going to allow the whites-only racism of the comic book industry in the 1960s to forbid him from doing it.

What does changing Johnny Storm's race substantively impact?  Is the dynamic between him and Sue ruined if they're step-siblings or half-siblings rather than full blood siblings?  If so, how?

What else is the problem?  His relationship with Ben?  Reed?  Because black and white people are never friends in 2014?

The idea that this is somehow akin to doing a white Black Panther is ludicrous.  Black Panther is a African tribal leader.  And guess what - African tribal leaders are black.  So are you saying that all astronauts are white, so Johnny has to be white?  Is there something about his bio that requires a white actor?  Let's check Wikipedia:

"Growing up in Glenville, New York, a fictional Long Island suburban town, Jonathan "Johnny" Storm lost his mother due to a car accident from which his father, surgeon Franklin Storm, escaped unharmed.[1] Franklin Storm spiraled into alcoholism and financial ruin, and was imprisoned after killing a loan shark in self-defense. Johnny Storm was then raised by his older sister, Sue Storm."

Sure sounds like someone who could possible be black to me.  Or any race, really.

So I think, unless you have some damning statement I haven't seen, you need to give the director the benefit of the doubt.  If you're not comfortable with Johnny being black for some non-racist reason, please share.

And I'm not saying I'm on board with any-and-all race changes.  For example - Dr. Doom has to be white.  He's an Eastern-European gypsy.  The Punisher needs to be white - he's Italian.  Black widow is Russian, thus white.  Tony Stark is the son of a WW2 industrialist - white.  There are many instances when the character's bio dictates their race.  Johnny Storm is not one of those instances.  Kinda like Nick Fury.
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Offline JediJman

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1238 on: February 22, 2014, 11:50 PM »
Wait wait wait.  They can make The Torch Black, but Doom and Black Widow are off limits?  If they can make Sue's brother another race then they can damn sure change anything.  There are no black people in Russia?  Pretty sure there are Eastern European blacks as well.  Why can't Punisher just be Hispanic?  Is being Italian essential to his character?  That's the most ridiculous rebuttal I've ever heard.  The fact is that they won't make Doom black because it would be considered racist, and they won't make a black hero like Panther or Luke Cage white because that would be racist.  Making white guys black is no problem though for some reason. 

I don't mind revisions to the classics, but count me among those bothered by the trend of changing races or sexes of well known characters.  It reeks of publicity stunt, intended or not and it just isn't needed.  There were no white guys qualified to play the Torch?  Come on.
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1239 on: February 23, 2014, 08:26 AM »
Black widow is Russian, thus white. 

Actually, Russians can be of various descents.  There are black-skinned Russians (quite a minority, but there still are) and there are many Russians of Korean and Mongolian decent along with some Eskimo-type tribes in the north-east.  Don't forget the ones in the south that might have some darker skin being close to Afghanistan, Georgia, Armenia, etc.  To say that all Russians are white (you didn't but inferred it with Black Widow is white because she's Russian), is totally wrong.

Offline BillCable

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1240 on: February 23, 2014, 09:26 AM »
Wait wait wait.  They can make The Torch Black, but Doom and Black Widow are off limits?  If they can make Sue's brother another race then they can damn sure change anything.  There are no black people in Russia?

Several thousand invited students from Africa.  Roughly 40,000 half-black descendents from previous students.  But no indigenous blacks, and due to rampant, violent racism against black, very few live there permanently.  In fact blacks are advised not to travel to Russia.  Things are so bad for blacks there the government itself will not count them.  They're considered sub-human by large swaths of the population.

So yeah - the idea that Black Widow could be black is patently ridiculous.  That is unless you're ragingly ignorant.

Pretty sure there are Eastern European blacks as well.

Not gypsies there aren't.

Why can't Punisher just be Hispanic?  Is being Italian essential to his character?
 

Have you actually read the Punisher?  It's all about him being Italian.  Grew up in a poor, Italian neighborhood in NYC.  Exposed to Mafia violence early.  Now he hunts the Mafia.

That's the most ridiculous rebuttal I've ever heard.  The fact is that they won't make Doom black because it would be considered racist, and they won't make a black hero like Panther or Luke Cage white because that would be racist.  Making white guys black is no problem though for some reason.

That's not a "fact."  That's your own assumption based on your apparently very white-centered perspective.  I was pointing out that there are some characters whose ethnicity is critical, and others whose ethnicity is not.  I'd say that's a tautology.  Go ahead and prove me wrong.

Then I gave examples where certain characters, based on their back-stories, necessarily need to be certain races.  You largely dismissed those out of ignorance.

I don't mind revisions to the classics, but count me among those bothered by the trend of changing races or sexes of well known characters.  It reeks of publicity stunt, intended or not and it just isn't needed.

I'm not normally a fan of gender changes.  Making Doom a woman would be stupid, IMO.  Thankfully that rumor was shot down by Trank.  But then I can only think of one off-hand:  Jimmy Olsen becoming Jenny Olsen.  Since she had all of two lines in that awful movie, that was pretty much a non-issue ultimately.

There were no white guys qualified to play the Torch?  Come on.

"Qualified"?  Are you effing serious?  You're framing this as an Affirmative Action play?

Here's a clue for you:  Nobody in Hollywood is ever cast because they're "qualified."  There's tens of thousands of actors who could play any particular role.  Actors are cast because they're famous, they're attractive, they give a good blow-job, they have connections, or they're great.  Being "qualified" is never the reason somebody is chosen.
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1241 on: February 23, 2014, 10:36 AM »
So yeah - the idea that Black Widow could be black is patently ridiculous.  That is unless you're ragingly ignorant.

But what about Asian-Russian?  As I said, there are many ethnic groups in Russia, not just European ones.  Buryats, Yakuts, etc.  Trust me, I worked in Russia and I have seen all kinds of Russians in my time... so while there may not be overall acceptance of colored people, I'm sure the people would be of a black super spy as a hero.  I mean, wouldn't that be unexpected to find a black person was a spy for Russia/Soviet Union?  If I were Putin, I'd have already explored that route.

Offline evenflow

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1242 on: February 23, 2014, 11:49 AM »


So I think, unless you have some damning statement I haven't seen, you need to give the director the benefit of the doubt.  If you're not comfortable with Johnny being black for some non-racist reason, please share.


Since it sounds like you are calling me a racist, I will say it has nothing to do with race. It has to do with how the characters were created. I would have the same problem if they cast a white guy to play black panther or a white woman for storm. Not accurate to the original comics.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 11:50 AM by evenflow »
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1243 on: February 23, 2014, 12:26 PM »
The casting does seem to fly in the face of the established brother & sister relationship of Johnny and Susan Storm.  Michael B Jordan's casting seems more like this was the actor that the filmmakers wanted than anything else.  So now they have to write around the established backstory of the FF in order to make it work.  In the case of Samuel L. Jackson being cast as Nick Fury in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, that situation was a bit more organically driven... at least for Marvel Studios.  When Marvel Comics killed off EVERYONE and launched the Ultimate Universe, Fury was reimagined to deliberately look like Sam Jackson.  And you have to think that SLJ was pretty flattered by that, because he's now appeared as Nick Fury in 5 of the Marvel Studios films.  Be that as it may, none of these actors really leaps out as a "WOW" bit of casting.  And I get the feeling that Kate Mara has already been in a better Marvel movie, with her very small part in Iron Man 2.

This casting announcement comes across as though Fox can't afford to get a solid core of actors for their Marvel comics partners, whereas Disney/Marvel studios has seen the value in some solid acting talent.  Robert Downey Jr. really has wowed people as Tony Stark/Iron Man.  We've been through three actors as Bruce Banner/Hulk, but Mark Ruffalo rose to the occasion in Avengers and stole the show.  Samuel L. Jackson has played the part of elder statesman/leader in his capacity as Nick Fury.  Chris Hemsworth managed to embody Thor well in three projects when his own credentials might have been considered questionable.  And Chris Evans totally upped his game as Steve Rogers in comparison to his work in the previous 2 FF films.

Inevitably the actors in this FF reboot are going to be compared with their Marvel studios contemporaries.  Do they have the capacity to step up their games for this project?  Jamie Bell seems to have some of the strongest credits, but he doesn't seem to have been cast to type.  The only thing that I can recall having seen Michael B. Jordan in was the HBO series 'The Wire', but he was nowhere near one of the standout actors on that show.  And Miles Teller?  I don't think I've seen him in anything.

There are definitely stronger actors that could have been cast.  But I get the sense that a lot of that talent would probably prefer to be involved in a Disney/Marvel studios production that's part of the larger Marvel cinematic universe.  This FF announcement comes across very much like the situation with the rights for Spiderman and the reboot of that franchise.  Get another movie out in an effort to hang onto the FF rights.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 02:59 PM by Nicklab »
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Offline McMetal

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Re: Super Hero/Comic Book Movies
« Reply #1244 on: February 23, 2014, 07:37 PM »
Ugh, I regret opening this can of worms now, but to clarify my position: I just feel that movies made from comics should be 100% true to their source material. That's it. If for whatever reason that source material seems unpalatable for a modern audience the way it was originally written, by all means choose something else. There are plenty of racially diverse modern properties that would make excellent super hero films.

I would like to see an FF film actually set in the proper historical time frame and not modernized at all. It could have a crazy cool retro flavor ala Mad Men.

And I love all peoples of the world, honestly, I'm just an anal retentive stickler for details. I hated when the changed Spider Man's webslingers too, or made the Rhino some kind of weird machine and not just a big guy in a suit.  :)
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