Author Topic: A Game of Thrones (HBO)  (Read 70885 times)

Offline McMetal

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #735 on: July 24, 2017, 02:59 PM »
I'm just glad we got some closure on HotPie.  :D

Do Jamie and Cersei even know about the Night King and the army of the undead? They seem to know about everything else. Cause maybe don't be so quick to kill those dragons.

The scene with Jorah was brutal. I don't see why Sam didn't just knock him out somehow. i don't think I want to see what he is going to look like after the peeling. But yeah, Sam is the man, no doubt.

Did they show what happened with Yara?

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Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #736 on: July 24, 2017, 03:21 PM »
Good point Jeff, but I didn't get the vibe that she wasn't going to go back to Winterfell.  Hell, Bran should be showing up there in the next episode or two.
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Offline BillCable

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #737 on: July 25, 2017, 07:45 AM »
Didn't they say the Unsullied were on those ships headed to Casterly Rock?  Does that mean they're all dead?  I doubt they'd kill off Grey Worm off-screen, so I'm not certain what's going on.
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Offline McMetal

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #738 on: July 25, 2017, 08:55 AM »
Didn't they say the Unsullied were on those ships headed to Casterly Rock?  Does that mean they're all dead?  I doubt they'd kill off Grey Worm off-screen, so I'm not certain what's going on.

I'm guessing they split up the fleet and sent the IronBorn ships to pick up the Dornish army while the fleet she took from the Masters was the one ferrying the Unsullied and Dothraki.

I wonder if they will bother to explain how Euron found them so easily, or even knew what the hell they were doing and who would be on the flagship. Probably not.
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Offline Dave

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #739 on: July 25, 2017, 10:16 AM »
Didn't they say the Unsullied were on those ships headed to Casterly Rock?  Does that mean they're all dead?  I doubt they'd kill off Grey Worm off-screen, so I'm not certain what's going on.

I was confused about this too and had to go on the Wiki to understand what was going on.  I expected the Unsullied to come to the rescue at some point, and then wondered if they were all burned alive in their ships.

Apparently Yara and crew were going to blockade Kings Landing (is there really that much sea trade to block?) while others were bringing the Unsullied to Casterly Rock.  Maybe Euron stumbled on them as he was just leaving Kings Landing after meeting with the Cersei.

Offline Nicklab

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #740 on: July 25, 2017, 11:01 AM »
My take on the Tyrion's strategy was that Yara's Iron Fleet was to take Ellaria Sand and the Sand Snakes to Dorne first.  I don't get the sense that they were going to be part of the front line forces laying siege to Kings Landing.  And once in Dorne, Yara's fleet would gather  the Dornish army and take them to King's Landing to lay siege to the city.  It was my impression that Euron probably ambushed them on their way to Dorne.  Euron seems to have taken Yara, Ellaria Sand and Tyene captive.  He's probably going to present Ellaria and Tyene to Cersei so that she can have her vengeance for Ellaria poisoning Myrcella.  As for Yara?  I think Euron's got his own plans for her.

The smarter play would have been for Euron to wait until Yara's fleet had loaded the Dornish army on their ships and THEN destroy them.  That would have dealt Dany and her allies a much harsher blow.  But I think that while Euron is brutal, he's not quite as clever as Tyrion.  I also suspect that a big part of Tyrion's strategy for having the Dornish lay siege to Kings Landing was to draw the Lannister forces away from Casterly Rock to fight the Dornish who are attacking the capitol.  And THEN the Unsullied would attack a much less well defended Casterly Rock.

I think that we may see something interesting play out when Jon Snow gets to Dragonstone with his hand, Ser Davos.  And I think that Davos has a significant role to play here.  Because if Dany's fleet has been laid waste by Euron?  She still needs to find a way to get the Unsullied to the Rock.  Perhaps Davos will call upon his pirate friends to help Dany get the Unsullied to Casterly Rock?  This is something that Jon and Davos might be in a position to offer Dany in a grand bargain.  And I do like Salladhor Saan!

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Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #741 on: July 25, 2017, 11:34 AM »
I don't think Cersei and Euron expect Tyrion to attack Casterly Rock.  The Dothracki and Unsullied showing up there is going to be a huge surprise to them.

Euron is pretty cunning, if anyone was going to be able to ambush Yara's fleet it would be him.  His victory could, potentially, freeze the Dornish army and keep them out of the siege of King's Landing.  I doubt the Tyrell army would be enough to lay siege there at this point.
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Offline BillCable

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #742 on: July 25, 2017, 02:18 PM »
I'm guessing they split up the fleet and sent the IronBorn ships to pick up the Dornish army while the fleet she took from the Masters was the one ferrying the Unsullied and Dothraki.

I wonder if they will bother to explain how Euron found them so easily, or even knew what the hell they were doing and who would be on the flagship. Probably not.

Thanks.  I missed that then.

As for how they were found - it's likely there are spies for Euron among Yara's Ironborn.  It'd be trivial to get a note with the details of the trip out to someone who could pass it on via raven.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #743 on: July 25, 2017, 02:22 PM »
I don't think Euron has a clue what's going on and just sailed in the direction he thinks he can cause trouble, and he did.  But yeah the Casterlh Rock thing will be a surprise, and agreed that this was all pre King's Landing Siege stuff.  I think blockading the sea is as much to prevent leaving as it is to prevent coming in, but a siege based on starving them out then you have to keep that port closed for sure.

The problem with that strategy (fact that one fleet is currently destroyed aside), is feeding your own armies, and the Unsullied and Dothrackie seem like big grocery bills.  Waiting things out can be a challenge unto itself.

The giant crossbow is kind of dumb but whatever.
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Offline BrentS

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #744 on: July 26, 2017, 10:48 AM »
The giant crossbow is kind of dumb but whatever.

I swear that's the same Crossbow that Bard used to kill Smaug.  Its a shame they decided to go down that same path.   I hope Drogon isn't missing a scale on his belly.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 10:48 AM by BrentS »

Online Jeff

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #745 on: July 26, 2017, 11:19 AM »
Totally agree on Hobbit-style Dragon crossbow.  I get that they want to make it dramatic like maybe there is a threat to the dragons... but I don't want a threat to the dragons.  I want to see them cook King's Landing and white walkers.

Besides, after all the hype/theory about three dragons for three lost Targaryon dragon riders (won't spoil for those who don't know), I'll kinda be pissed off if they kill one of the dragons for whatever reason.
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Offline BillCable

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #746 on: July 26, 2017, 12:11 PM »
Doesn't seem like it'd be remotely possible to aim that crossbow with the agility required to hit a moving dragon.
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Offline Darby

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #747 on: July 26, 2017, 12:13 PM »
I'd be put out too if they killed one or more of the dragons, and the introduction of the crossbow was the first time in a long while in this series I felt any sense of dread about something. Killing one of the dragons is something I think the show might do to really ramp up the stakes going into the last season, since the dragons are critical to the defeat of the White Walkers. The series has divested itself of a few things from the books that seem significant; if I'm not mistaken (could be), the three riders theme is one of them.

As far as employing this thing against one of the dragons, what they need is for a dragon to get on the ground, which they have a tendency to do. I can imagine a scene now where Dany descends into King's Landing triumphant on Drogo, and BANG.

Offline Dave

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #748 on: July 26, 2017, 12:37 PM »
I've not read the book, but I would think from an interest perspective you've got to make the dragons vulnerable somehow. 

I agree The Hobbit crossbow is a little lame and uncreative, but using normal spears it appears you can hurt the dragons as happened in Merene. 

The dragons need to be vulnerable and I'm okay if one of them gets killed.  Hopefully its done in an interesting (white walker magic?) and plausible way.

Offline Nicklab

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #749 on: July 26, 2017, 04:28 PM »
I've not read the book, but I would think from an interest perspective you've got to make the dragons vulnerable somehow. 

I agree The Hobbit crossbow is a little lame and uncreative, but using normal spears it appears you can hurt the dragons as happened in Merene. 

The dragons need to be vulnerable and I'm okay if one of them gets killed.  Hopefully its done in an interesting (white walker magic?) and plausible way.

We're well beyond the books now in terms of story, so it seems that the crossbow is a loose story idea conveyed to the showrunners by GRRM, or a creation of their own.  But we do know from the show that Drogon was injured by the spears in the fighting pits of Meereen.

As far as backstory about the original dragons?  In the books GRRM talked about how Aegon the conqueror came to Westeros with his three dragons, his being Balerion the Black Dread.  It was the skull of Balerion that Qyburn used for his demonstration to Cersei.  Following Aegon's conquest the dragons became smaller, weaker and eventually died off.  They weren't immortal by any stretch of the imagination, and it's been well established that the dragons can die.

As far as comparisons with the Hobbit?  I can see the parallels one would draw with the movie.  FWIW, in the Hobbit book the black arrow was fired by Bard using a bow, not the large crossbow as depicted in the film.  Nevertheless, in both stories you're essential dealing with an alternate medieval era along with similar medieval levels of technology.  A crossbow or a ballista (those date as far back as being used by the Roman Empire) is the only weapon of that era that could fire a projectile that might kill a dragon.  The only other weapon that might be some sort of threat to a dragon would be a trebuchet or catapult.  But that's really more of an indirect fire weapon akin to artillery, rather than a direct fire weapon like the catapult that can fire an aimed bolt or spear.  And that direct fire weapon is the one you'd probably need to take on a dragon. 

I don't like to speculate on what may happen to the dragons, but I think it's very likely that they may not all survive to the end of the series.
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