Author Topic: A Game of Thrones (HBO)  (Read 70889 times)

Offline Rob

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #765 on: August 7, 2017, 02:14 PM »
I'm assuming Jamie will unsnap his armor and float back up, but we did just see him sink to the bottom of some small body of water wearing lots of heavy stuff.

I wonder if when he pops back up he'll promptly be taken prisoner... I doubt he can hold his breath until they're all gone.

Offline Darby

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #766 on: August 7, 2017, 02:22 PM »
I'm thinking Jon and Dany's coming to terms will be in the form of a marriage proposal. That could be upset by certain information coming to light, but I also think there is some uncertainty in the R+L=J theory that leaves a door open to someone else being Jon's father.

Offline Jeff

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #767 on: August 7, 2017, 02:55 PM »
I wonder if when he pops back up he'll promptly be taken prisoner...

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out as it would put Jaime (and potentially Bronn) back together with Tyrion for at least one scene.


I also think there is some uncertainty in the R+L=J theory that leaves a door open to someone else being Jon's father.

One of my best buds is convinced R+L=J is true... but the R isn't who you expect.  I think his whole argument is based on the "seed is strong" nonsense with Jon not having silver hair purple eyes, but having brown hair.

If his R+L=J theory is true... I don't really get why Ned would keep Jon's dad from knowing about it, given his feelings for Jon's mom kicked off the whole rebellion in the first place. :P

For me, HBO has pretty much confirmed Jon's dad so a switch up at this point is kinda unfair play.
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Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #768 on: August 7, 2017, 03:07 PM »
I wonder if when he pops back up he'll promptly be taken prisoner...

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out as it would put Jaime (and potentially Bronn) back together with Tyrion for at least one scene.


You have to wonder if Bronn will at least try to switch sides...Danerys might offer him a castle.
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Offline Darby

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #769 on: August 7, 2017, 03:19 PM »
If his R+L=J theory is true... I don't really get why Ned would keep Jon's dad from knowing about it, given his feelings for Jon's mom kicked off the whole rebellion in the first place. :P

This is also one of my questions; I also feel like L could have sent a raven and ended the whole thing. I do feel there's another shoe to drop here with the theory, though. Mostly because if it proves out 100%, it dislocates Dany from her role in the narrative (rightful heir to the throne, from her perspective) which seems to me, against what GRRM is doing in the story. Could be wrong though.

Offline Nicklab

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #770 on: August 7, 2017, 03:27 PM »
The image of Jaime falling through the water seemed to be a direct callback to the pilot, when Bran fell from the tower because Jaime pushed him.  That was a transformational moment for Bran.  Was this a transformational moment for Jaime?  We've seen some groundwork being laid with Jaime that he is growing disenchanted with Cersei.  He wasn't comfortable with their secret relationship being exposed to the servants of the Red Keep.  And his exchange with the Queen of Thorns last week seemed to sum a lot of that up.  I've seen a number of articles today that are trying to link Jaime's story to a prophecy.  But at this point I have to wonder if he had it in him to unstrap his armor and swim to the surface.  I'm also a bit curious to see if it was Bronn or Dickon Tarley who tackled Jaime into the water before he would have been incinerated.

As with any scene featuring Bronn, he was awesome... even if he was on the wrong side in this particular battle.  Seeing him leave a bag of gold behind told me that for once he was genuinely concerned about his own survival.  I'd love to see him and Tyrion team back up, but this show does have a way of dashing hopes like that.

And then there's Tyrion.  I have never seen him so conflicted as when he was watching the battle, and urging Jaime to flee the field of battle.  If Jaime were to survive, I think that Tyrion would prove instrumental in protecting him, and perhaps getting him to consider bending the knee to Danaerys.

As for "the seed is strong"?  I would think that might have referred to Gendry, who is rumored to re-appear at some point.  He may be the only living Baratheon left, bastard or not.

I think events in Winterfell are going to get a bit tense.  Littlefinger's exchange with Bran almost certainly has him off balance, and he's trying to figure out where he stands.  Sansa came right out and told Bran that Littlefinger no doubt wants something from Bran.  And Arya shot Littlefinger a knowing look, as if he's made it onto her list.  The x-factor here seems to be the Knights of the Vale, because right now they're needed.  Sansa seems to have gained the respect of Yohn Royce of the Vale, and she also might be able to persuade (or at least manipulated) her cousin Robin Arryn into thinking that the Vale knights would be best led by her.  That is, if Littlefinger doesn't fall upon some sort of... "accident".
« Last Edit: August 7, 2017, 03:31 PM by Nicklab »
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Offline Darby

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #771 on: August 7, 2017, 03:41 PM »
Quote
The image of Jaime falling through the water seemed to be a direct callback to the pilot, when Bran fell from the tower because Jaime pushed him.

Good call.

His (potential) capture by Dany also calls back to his capture by Robb at the end of season one. Having him gives Dany enormous leverage, one would think, with Cersei, but... things are a bit different now.
« Last Edit: August 7, 2017, 05:39 PM by Darby »

Offline BillCable

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #772 on: August 7, 2017, 04:13 PM »
This is also one of my questions; I also feel like L could have sent a raven and ended the whole thing. I do feel there's another shoe to drop here with the theory, though. Mostly because if it proves out 100%, it dislocates Dany from her role in the narrative (rightful heir to the throne, from her perspective) which seems to me, against what GRRM is doing in the story. Could be wrong though.

She's still be the rightful heir to the throne - trueborn daughter versus bastard son.
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Offline Rob

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #773 on: August 7, 2017, 04:43 PM »
I wonder if when he pops back up he'll promptly be taken prisoner...

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out as it would put Jaime (and potentially Bronn) back together with Tyrion for at least one scene.



Yeah, that was kind of my thinking, especially since Jamie now knows that Tyrion is innocent and given that he was always the one who was at least... nicer... to Tyrion.  It would make for a really interesting new dynamic.

Offline Jeff

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #774 on: August 7, 2017, 04:50 PM »
if it proves out 100%, it dislocates Dany from her role in the narrative (rightful heir to the throne, from her perspective)

That's another fun speculation game my friends and I have been playing... who lives to the end and where do they end up?

If Jon and Danerys both survive to the end, who ends up on the Iron Throne?  What do you do with the one who doesn't get the throne?

If you give the iron throne to Dany, do you give Winterfell to Jon?  If so, what happens to Sansa or Arya? (Assuming Bran's just gonna go live in a tree somewhere in the North.)


It'll be interesting to see how that plays out as it would put Jaime (and potentially Bronn) back together with Tyrion for at least one scene.
Yeah, that was kind of my thinking, especially since Jamie now knows that Tyrion is innocent and given that he was always the one who was at least... nicer... to Tyrion.  It would make for a really interesting new dynamic.

But, even though Jaime now knows for sure Tyrion didn't kill Joffrey... he still knows Tyrion killed Tywin. Would be interesting to see those two together again for sure...
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #775 on: August 7, 2017, 05:31 PM »

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out as it would put Jaime (and potentially Bronn) back together with Tyrion for at least one scene.
Yeah, that was kind of my thinking, especially since Jamie now knows that Tyrion is innocent and given that he was always the one who was at least... nicer... to Tyrion.  It would make for a really interesting new dynamic.

But, even though Jaime now knows for sure Tyrion didn't kill Joffrey... he still knows Tyrion killed Tywin. Would be interesting to see those two together again for sure...

Jaime does know that Tyrion killed Tywin, and that Olenna poisoned Joffrey.  But then when did Jaime and Tywin ever have a great relationship?  Tywin was always disapproving of the fact that Jaime had become one of the Kingsguard, and wouldn't be able to inherit the title of Lord of Casterly Rock.  And IIRC, didn't Tywin almost disown Jaime at some point?  And it was Jaime that helped Tyrion escape from the Red Keep.  I think there's always been a great deal more affection between Jaime and Tyrion than anyone takes into account, and that might be the biggest factor here.
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Offline Darby

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #776 on: August 7, 2017, 05:38 PM »
Quote
She's still be the rightful heir to the throne - trueborn daughter versus bastard son.

That's possible, though there may be legitimacy to R+L that we're unaware of in terms of marriage. That would place Jon ahead of Dany in the line of succession, and in reality - which I don't know the show will get to since it's speeding up so fast - the public revelation of his ancestry would be political disaster for Dany, regardless of his legitimacy. For the people of Westeros, it would be the devil you know, or in this case, the Targaryen.

Quote
If Jon and Danerys both survive to the end, who ends up on the Iron Throne?  What do you do with the one who doesn't get the throne?

I've always been of the thought that it's not Dany's ultimate fate to end up as queen. I believe she dies in battle defeating the White Walkers. The throne, if there's one at all, is going to go to someone out of left field (Missandei strikes me as a suitable populist who is a bit better at articulating Dany's vision than the queen herself, sometimes).

Offline Nicklab

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #777 on: August 7, 2017, 09:53 PM »
That is an interesting wrinkle that I hadn't considered.  R was the Crown Prince.  Did he legitimately marry L?  If so, that could put J ahead of Dany in a Targaryen line of succession... depending on what the rules regarding succession might have been.
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Offline BillCable

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #778 on: August 8, 2017, 08:08 AM »
I thought it was pretty well established that L was R's side-hoe.  They couldn't have been married absent recognized polygamy.
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Offline Mikey D

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #779 on: August 8, 2017, 08:42 AM »
This post is coming from someone who's read the books, followed up on the R+L=J theory to fully understand it, as well as read multiple forums on other's opinions and thoughts, so there's information below that the show didn't fully touch upon.  If you're thinking about reading the books and don't want to be spoiled, you've been warned.





Jon is 100% Rhaegar and Lyanna's son.  There's no secret R or L to the equation.  Lyanna and Robert were supposed to be married and Robert was all for it as he truly loved Lyanna.  Lyanna wanted nothing to do with it as she knew Robert was a womanizing drunk who would still cheat on her if given the opportunity (and he would have plenty).  Why would Lyanna let Robert dip his wick, produce a son and then tell Ned to lie about it?  It doesn't make any sense.

As to who is the rightful heir, I'm in the opinion that it's Jon.  Rhaegar and Lyanna were gone for almost a year before R rode off to fight against the rebellion and ultimately be slain by Robert.  Targaryens were known to take multiple wives (Aegon the First had two and they started the line when they invaded Westeros).  During that year, I'm of the opinion that R&L secretly got married and produced Jon.  There are hints in the books that point to Jon being a legitimate heir (all assuming R&L were married, of course):

1.  The Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy.  Why would three Kingsguard, including the Lord Commander and possibly the greatest swordsman in the realm in Sir Arthur Dayne be posted there if not to protect royalty?  Remember at this point, Rhaegar had already left to fight in the battles and was known to have died.  Why didn't they go with him initially or why weren't they with Aerys' wife, Viserys and the soon to be born Dany after he died?  At this point, everyone knew it was a real possibility Robert had a chance to win and Aerys could die, so the next in line to the throne would be Viserys, the second born son.  Kingsguard weren't with those three and three Kingsguard wouldn't be left at the ToJ to protect some bastard and the prince's side piece whore.  They were there to protect Jon as the legitimate heir to Prince Rhaegar.

2.  Everyone's thoughts and feelings about Rhaegar (not including Robert as his opinion was skewed because he thought Lyanna was constantly being raped).  Everyone, from Ned to Sir Barristan to Cersei to the common folk had nothing but nice things to say about Rhaegar.  He doesn't seem like the type of person to keep a girl as a side piece to use as he pleased.  I believe he truly loved Lyanna, she him and they were married.
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