Author Topic: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)  (Read 89876 times)

Offline Nicklab

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #960 on: February 10, 2017, 10:30 AM »
Cripes you have thin skin.   ::)

This wasn't an issue until YOU brought it up.  Look in the mirror.  Take some responsibility for flying off the handle like some kind of petulant child when you don't get directly acknowledged.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 10:34 AM by Nicklab »
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Offline JediJman

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #961 on: February 10, 2017, 10:38 AM »
If you call this flying off the handle

WHAT?!  That's a great theory...

You need a serious reality check.  Lighten up.
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #962 on: February 10, 2017, 10:39 AM »
If you call this flying off the handle

WHAT?!  That's a great theory...

You need a serious reality check.  Lighten up.

I know I'm not a mod, but keep it in the Pit, please.

Offline Master_Phruby

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #963 on: February 10, 2017, 11:13 AM »
Come on guys. We are all friends here.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #964 on: February 15, 2017, 09:48 AM »
I just came across this article which highlights a piece of dialogue that made it into the novelization of THE FORCE AWAKENS, but not the movie.

When Rey summons the Skywalker lightsaber in the snowy forest of Starkiller base, Kylo Ren whispers "It is you".  And that very likely ties in with the question that Kylo Ren asks of a First Order officer on the Finalizer when he demands to know "What girl?"
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Offline EdSolo

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #965 on: February 15, 2017, 10:52 AM »
The novel dialogue may not be canonical.  I have not heard a specific statement on this line, but pre TFA it was stated that movie novelizations are canonical unless they contradict what was on screen.  So things like Blue squadron in ANH and the appearance of Yoda in ESB are not canonical from the novel descriptions.  I think ROTJ novel may have had Owen being Obi-wan's brother as well.

Offline Nicklab

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #966 on: February 15, 2017, 11:48 AM »
The novel dialogue may not be canonical.  I have not heard a specific statement on this line, but pre TFA it was stated that movie novelizations are canonical unless they contradict what was on screen.  So things like Blue squadron in ANH and the appearance of Yoda in ESB are not canonical from the novel descriptions.  I think ROTJ novel may have had Owen being Obi-wan's brother as well.

Yes, but look at the eras you're citing: 
-The George Lucas era, where things were being worked out somewhat on the fly, or where Lucas may on a whim override the work of a contracted author (see the works of Karen Traviss)
-The sequel trilogy era, where the Star Wars story group is coordinating efforts between filmmakers, authors, et al to form a more cohesive Star Wars universe.
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Offline EdSolo

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #967 on: February 15, 2017, 12:48 PM »
The novel dialogue may not be canonical.  I have not heard a specific statement on this line, but pre TFA it was stated that movie novelizations are canonical unless they contradict what was on screen.  So things like Blue squadron in ANH and the appearance of Yoda in ESB are not canonical from the novel descriptions.  I think ROTJ novel may have had Owen being Obi-wan's brother as well.

Yes, but look at the eras you're citing: 
-The George Lucas era, where things were being worked out somewhat on the fly, or where Lucas may on a whim override the work of a contracted author (see the works of Karen Traviss)
-The sequel trilogy era, where the Star Wars story group is coordinating efforts between filmmakers, authors, et al to form a more cohesive Star Wars universe.

In the Lucas era, there was no story group.  It was just Lucas stating that if he wants to overwrite something he can.  Once Disney purchased Star Wars et al. they formed the story group which said that novels based on the movies are canonical except where they contradict what was on the screen.  While there is coordination between the author, Lucasfilm and the story group, the novel does not reflect the finished film necessarily.  There is no way it can since it is generally released on the same day as the film.  Therefore, the dialogue could be based on a deleted, altered or unfinished scene and therefore may not be canonical.

Offline Nicklab

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #968 on: February 15, 2017, 02:28 PM »
Exactly.  Lucas exercised control over the material, and it was not in the coordinated way that we're seeing today. 

We saw the first hints of the Star Wars Story Group while George still owned Lucasfilm.  And it started when Lucas Licensing got Leland Chee working on what's now known as "The Holocron", which kept track of all Star Wars stories and characters in a database.  That effort began around the year 2000.  And Chee now serves on the Star Wars Story Group.  Lucas reserved the right to change the direction of stories at will, but that also meant that writers of non-film projects had more leeway to do what they wanted.  See my comment regarding Karen Traviss.  She had written multiple novels while the Clone Wars were being dealt with extensively in novels, comics and the Clone Wars animated series.  And a good deal of her work revolved around building a backstory for the Mandalorians.  But then George Lucas decided that he wanted the Clone Wars animated series to touch on the Mandalorians, and that move blew up almost all of the work Traviss had done on that story arc.   And Traviss quit writing Star Wars following that incident.

But the coordinated effort of the Star Wars Story Group NOW means that material like the novelization of THE FORCE AWAKENS is vetted in a far more coordinated fashion than during the Lucas era.  And you won't wind up with major issues like the situation with the Mandalorian story lines.

Will the movie supersede all other written material?  Very likely that will be the case.  But for a line like "It is you" to be uttered by Kylo Ren directed at Rey in that book?  That's not the sort of thing that the Lucas Licensing book editors would just let an author put out there on their own.  I suspect it was cut from the theatrical release of TFA to build suspense about the connection between the two characters, and further drawn in movie viewers.
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Offline EdSolo

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #969 on: February 15, 2017, 03:31 PM »
I am quite aware of the holocron and the Karen Travis saga.  IMO, part of Lucas showing he really couldn't tell a story anymore was his desire to have a warrior race taken over by pacifists.

That aside, the book isn't written based on the final cut of the film.  It just can't be considering it is released the same day as the movie.  That includes the audio version of the book.  Let us assume that Rey and Kylo are brother and sister in the original draft of the script.  It doesn't get revealed in the to the viewer directly, but is hinted at with the "it is you" line.  This first draft script is given to Alan Dean Foster which he uses to write the novel.  The novel gets approved by Lucasfilm/Disney.  After that time, new script drafts are written, changes are made, etc.  By this time it could be easily too late to change the final edit of the novel.  There are things like the Snowspeeder chase and Chewie ripping off Plut's arm in the novel that we have now seen as deleted scenes.  That does not mean they are canon.  The "it is you" line is only canon if Leland Chee or Pablo Hidalgo or someone else from the storybook group confirms that it is.  As of now, it contradicts what is seen in the theatrical release, which would seem it is not canon based on the previous statement from the story group.

Both the TFA novel and the Rogue One novel are closer to the final product than the OT and PT novels, but they are still differences which most likely comes from script edits and final cuts of the film.

Offline Nicklab

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #970 on: February 15, 2017, 05:56 PM »
There's just one little problem there.  Because the hardcover version of the TFA novel was not released until 5 months after the theatrical release of the movie. 

The digital download version of the book (released the same day as the movie, BTW), which can be far more easily edited given the means of distribution, may have seen more robust editing at the hands of Lucas Licensing and the Star Wars Story Group.  The same might be said of the audiobook, too.
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Offline Darby

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #971 on: February 15, 2017, 06:01 PM »
There isn't so far any indication that the new canon is pick and choose. So everything down to the last line is inclusive. I think it's just more of an emphasis of what is already in the film. Kylo clearly suggest some knowledge of Rey, and the novel cements it in this line.

Offline EdSolo

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Re: Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)
« Reply #972 on: February 15, 2017, 06:45 PM »
There's just one little problem there.  Because the hardcover version of the TFA novel was not released until 5 months after the theatrical release of the movie. 

The digital download version of the book (released the same day as the movie, BTW), which can be far more easily edited given the means of distribution, may have seen more robust editing at the hands of Lucas Licensing and the Star Wars Story Group.  The same might be said of the audiobook, too.

Audio version released same day as the movie.  My hardcover version shipped January 4, 2016 and arrived on January 5, 2016.  Paperback was end of September.