Star Wars: The Force Awakens (SPOILERS)

[JediJman]

Guess I'm part of the small minority who really thinks this movie was a swing and a miss. Rehashed plot. Coincidences on top of coincidences. Maybe 8 will be a better more thought out original movie

You mean like in the original Star Wars with R2 and Threepio somehow ending up on the same Sandcrawler or the Lars family being in the market for two of those types of droids or Obi-Wan happening across a wounded Luke & company in the desert or Threepio turning on his communicator just before the heroes get crushed in the trash compactor or Luke running into his best friend on Yavin or Vader selecting the worst TIE Pilot ever as his trench run wingman or Vader's tie not getting caught in the Death Star explosion?  Do you mean like those types of coincidences on top of coincidences? 

[Phrubruh]

Aren't coincidences the hallmark of the entire series? Heck, if those two gunners on the star destroy blew up R2's escape pod like they were suppose to there wouldn't be a story.

[Nicklab]

Aren't coincidences the hallmark of the entire series?

Yes.  It's called The Force.

[JediJman]

Yes.  It's called The Force.

"That's now how the force works!"

[Phrubruh]

Aren't coincidences the hallmark of the entire series?

Yes.  It's called The Force.

or plot holes.

[Rob]

Aren't coincidences the hallmark of the entire series? Heck, if those two gunners on the star destroy blew up R2's escape pod like they were suppose to there wouldn't be a story.

It's not coincidence and it's not plot holes. 

This reminds me of how someone I know was bitching about Rey being good at everything, and my reaction was basically that that's why she's the hero of the story and that there's a reason we don't make Star Wars movies that feature restaurant owners on Coruscant serving food to space tourists or cab drivers on Corellia taking people around some random city. 

Besides, if various characters don't cross paths or end up in certain situations then there's no story.  It isn't called the Force, it's called suspension of disbelief and it's sort of required for almost any big exciting tale to be told.  Anyone who wants to pick huge epic action / sci-fi story that's being told in about 2 hours apart can do so with relative ease, but that doesn't make it a good use of their time.

[GrandMoffNick]

Amen Rob

[EdSolo]

I too am tired of the "Rey is good at everything, Kylo Ren should have kicked her butt".  Let's ignore the fact that Chewie shot Kylo Ren before the duel or that Finn got a hit on him.  Yes, Finn shouldn't have been able to do it because he doesn't have the Force.  It isn't like he was trained in melee weapons like the ST he faced on at Maz's place.  If people can't stand Rey, then they should hate Luke and ROTJ.  When Luke beat Vader, he had exactly one duel against a live opponent, unless you count the cave on Degobah.  Even on Cloud City, completely unskilled Luke Skywalker scored a hit on Vader, who had infinately more lightsaber dueling experience.  Rey has some experience in melee weapons as shown when she fought off the thugs with her staff.  If Luke can beat Vader in ROTJ, then Rey can beat an injured Kylo Ren.

[Jesse James]

To be fair, Luke had like 4 years of using a saber under his belt too and Vader isn't Anakin in terms of physical ability.  That said I think all the point about Kylo being shot, inexperienced, etc., are all fair.  Finn supposedly had training in melee combat, and on another viewing he's not "great" with a saber too.  He's slow, unsure, and losing to Tr8r trooper even...  It seems to fit more to me after a 2nd watch though. 

[Keonobi]

Got my third screening this afternoon with my Wife and both of my boys; first for our seven year old. Felt bad for the folks behind us. 7 year old had a little trouble with"quiet mouth", sitting still, etc; he has autism and tends to script things. Anywho. Can i just say that a less engrossing, entertaining movie might have allowed them to be irritated; but they actually refused my apology and $20 to buy their next movie tickets (it was a local 2nd run theater so that wouldve covered it for them, plus snacks). Star Wars is great.

[EdSolo]

To be fair, Luke had like 4 years of using a saber under his belt too and Vader isn't Anakin in terms of physical ability.  That said I think all the point about Kylo being shot, inexperienced, etc., are all fair.  Finn supposedly had training in melee combat, and on another viewing he's not "great" with a saber too.  He's slow, unsure, and losing to Tr8r trooper even...  It seems to fit more to me after a 2nd watch though.

To be fair, when ROTJ came out, while Luke had owned a saber for four years, how much did he use it?  He had very limited training from Obi-Wan, really on the order of ten minutes from what we see on screen.  He uses it to free himself on Hoth.  While the new cannon fleshes things out more, when ROTJ was made, we have no evidence of any saber training between ANH and ESB.  When Luke trains with Yoda, absolutely no training with the lightsaber was shown.  So at best, he has a few months of Jedi training when he meets Vader for the first time and manages to score a hit on him before getting his hand cut off.  Pretty fantastic for fighting someone who killed Dooku and hunted down the Jedi.

[Nicklab]

Some of the new canon books reveal how much Luke has grown in his Force powers.  One of those books is called 'The Weapon Of A Jedi' and revolves around Luke after the events of A New Hope.  And Sarco Plank from The Force Awakens got brought into play in that story which revolves around Luke and the Skywalker lightsaber.  And from what I've heard he does duel with the lightsaber in the course of that story.

As for Vader?  The backstory that I've read with him is that he had hunted down the majority of the Jedi in the first few years following the foundation of the Empire.  By the time of A New Hope it had been a long time since he had dueled anybody.  And the same goes for Obi-Wan.  Both of them were far from their prime, and that's why their dueling capabilities were significantly diminished from the time of the Clone Wars and the events of Revenge Of The Sith.  However, I've also read that Vader had resumed his lightsaber training following his duel with Obi-Wan Kenobi on the Death Star, and that's how he was in much better form when he encountered Luke at Cloud City.

[EdSolo]

Some of the new canon books reveal how much Luke has grown in his Force powers.  One of those books is called 'The Weapon Of A Jedi' and revolves around Luke after the events of A New Hope.  And Sarco Plank from The Force Awakens got brought into play in that story which revolves around Luke and the Skywalker lightsaber.  And from what I've heard he does duel with the lightsaber in the course of that story.

As for Vader?  The backstory that I've read with him is that he had hunted down the majority of the Jedi in the first few years following the foundation of the Empire.  By the time of A New Hope it had been a long time since he had dueled anybody.  And the same goes for Obi-Wan.  Both of them were far from their prime, and that's why their dueling capabilities were significantly diminished from the time of the Clone Wars and the events of Revenge Of The Sith.  However, I've also read that Vader had resumed his lightsaber training following his duel with Obi-Wan Kenobi on the Death Star, and that's how he was in much better form when he encountered Luke at Cloud City.

The problem with that explanation is that it is revisionist history under Disney.  While it is now the official canon, it certainly wasn't when ESB and ROTJ came out.  While we didn't have the internet back then, there isn't any evidence of the amount of whining we see about Rey while giving Luke a pass in a similar situation.

The new comics have also had Luke fight a Rancor pre ROTJ.  ROTJ doesn't give the impression that he had run into a rancor before.  While the new canon may fill in the holes, your average Star Wars "fan" doesn't read it and does not have the knowledge to say "Luke did this between ANH and ESB".  They only know what was in the movies.  The young reader novel does have Finn and his sqaudmates duel with melee weapons, so it is easy to assume that he wouldn't be completely useless with a lightsaber.  However, again, the average fan doesn't know that and just assumes he has never used anything, but a blaster.

[Nicklab]

That 'under Disney' thing completely discounts the Star Wars Story Group.  And that's a group of people who worked for Lucasfilm while George Lucas was still at the helm.  THEY are the ones who made the call over what's canon and what is not canon, with Kathleen Kennedy having the final decision.

As for Luke's development?  You've got to think that between the events of Episodes 4 and 5 that Luke has probably gotten into a scrap or two.  The Rebels have essentially been on the run since the Battle of Yavin.  They weren't just sitting around on Yavin IV, eventually deciding 'Hey, let's go somewhere where we can go skiing year round!'  Also keep in mind that the Empire has been relentlessly trying to identify who exactly destroyed the Death Star.  By TESB we know that Darth Vader has learned the identity of Luke Skywalker well in advance of their duel at Cloud City, and so has the Emporer.  And when Luke summoned his lightsaber and took out the Wampa?  It looked like he's had some practice before that.

[Keonobi]

That's the impression I had of Finn; that he had limited experience outside blasters. "I need a weapon!", "You have one." Maz pushing his hand with the lightsaber..