Author Topic: Taking Back Our Hobby  (Read 5233 times)

Offline Jeff

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2017, 10:38 AM »
In some cases he got to know the people writing for a number of sites.  And by all accounts, he has burned many a bridge with people all over the SW collecting community.

The number of good people and/or sites in the collecting community that he has thrown under the bus to advance his own site is staggering.


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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2017, 11:23 AM »
I'm just surprised that Hasbro/Disney/LFL haven't cracked down on these rants.  An owner of a fan site will have opinions about characters, but I don't see the hate spouted off about them at every chance they get.  I mean if they are banning sites for compiling a list for product coming out on FF (I really don't know the reasons, but I'm assuming), then having the talking head of a site using racial, misogynistic, and other descriptors toward your product should have you taken down without hesitation. 

All it's going to take is for someone to hashtag (or link, I'm no expert on this) the right person at Disney, LFL, or mainstream media to see this.  We saw how quickly the flames spread when some famous person saw a 6" Slave Leia.

Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2017, 11:25 AM »
Why do people go to his web site again?
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2017, 11:30 AM »
I guess some of them actually LIKE to be angry.
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Offline Darby

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2017, 11:37 AM »
Quote
All it's going to take is for someone to hashtag (or link, I'm no expert on this) the right person at Disney, LFL, or mainstream media to see this.  We saw how quickly the flames spread when some famous person saw a 6" Slave Leia.

I have been and others @ Hasbro on this for the last couple instances; it's failed to gain any traction so far. I'll keep doing it. The optics of having this guy at a table discussing the brand and its future should be horrifying for a company that promotes inclusiveness. It's gone beyond this guy is just grumpy or 'I hate the sequels.' Plenty hated the prequels and it was never a toxic thing (well...). This behavior stems from a larger, cultural issue that I'll walk around here to keep on track, but is infecting our hobby.

Offline JediJman

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #50 on: October 25, 2017, 12:18 PM »
Part of me still wonders how sincere or authentic any of his behavior is; I've thought for a while that it might be just for the traffic it generates. Like you said, with Hasbro he's one way, behind the computer he's another. Maybe it's all performative. Could be wrong. He might just hate women. Debating Rey's merits as a character is one thing; but it's not about whether she's a good character or not. It's about the fact that he has a sustained, documented history of bigotry and misogyny toward women and minorities. Rose. Jyn. Rey.

I'm thinking the same thing.  He's just saying controversial things to drive traffic.  If you say something ridiculous and get people bantering back and forth, that drives up his site hits.   Of course he wants to argue it on his site - more traffic all the way around and he has the added benefit of controlling the conversation.  I really wouldn't be surprised to find that some of the comments against his position are really just him with a different handle as well.  The guy reeks of Palpatine pitting people against each other for reasons completely unrelated to his true motives.  If people really want this guy to go away, just stop going to the site.  I rarely ever visit JTA, but they got me for one hit today as curiosity got the best of me.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #51 on: October 25, 2017, 12:27 PM »
I agree that there's an innate need for attention at the heart of all of this, negative or otherwise.  But the WAY he says some of this?  There seems to be some genuine belief behind it.  This isn't like a professional wresting work.  And you can usually see through a good deal of trolling.  In this case though, there's legit belief and anger.  And it's come up in a lot of ways with this clown in the past.  That's part of what makes this so ugly.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 12:31 PM by Nicklab »
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Offline Dave

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #52 on: October 25, 2017, 12:38 PM »
Just read his rant.  Its sad really.  He is complaining about plot and story development (which is fair), but then blames it on Disney's need to promote a female character.  Would the plot and story development be magically better if Rey was a male character?  Um, no.  We saw this with Episode 1.  Having young Anakin and Jar-Jar be male didn't save that story.

His sexism is transparent and juvenile.

Offline Darby

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #53 on: October 25, 2017, 01:57 PM »
Quote
His sexism is transparent and juvenile.

Preach.

I don't feel its necessary to acknowledge Harrison's argument, but Jesse had some great tweets last night that I chimed in on that I feel speak to the fallacy of Harrison's thinking.

Is Rey a Mary Sue? Objectively no. Things Rey did not do in TFA:

Did not win a pod race at 9.
Did not destroy an enemy flagship at 9.
Did not become a Jedi padawan at 9.
Did not destroy a Death Star in a single shot.
Did not rescue a princess from said Death Star.

Rey only rescued herself in TFA, which seems to be the real sin.

ETA: A lot - I mean A LOT - of people have an issue with her defeating Kylo Ren. Kylo is manifestly powerful. He is also arrogant and worst of all, ignorant. He makes a near fatal mistake engaging her at all in combat. He is seriously wounded, emotionally and mentally out of balance and facing an opponent as driven by anger and fear as he is. Perhaps more so. He then goes and suggests to her in the middle of the fight that she's not even really using her full potential. She promptly does, and makes him look like the fool he is. Is Rey stronger in the force than say Luke was in ANH? Probably. The latest TLJ trailer seems to acknowledge this. I guarantee this doesn't bother Luke ******* Skywalker, so I don't know why it should anyone else.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2017, 02:02 PM by Darby »

Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #54 on: October 25, 2017, 03:06 PM »
ETA: A lot - I mean A LOT - of people have an issue with her defeating Kylo Ren. Kylo is manifestly powerful. He is also arrogant and worst of all, ignorant. He makes a near fatal mistake engaging her at all in combat. He is seriously wounded, emotionally and mentally out of balance and facing an opponent as driven by anger and fear as he is. Perhaps more so. He then goes and suggests to her in the middle of the fight that she's not even really using her full potential. She promptly does, and makes him look like the fool he is. Is Rey stronger in the force than say Luke was in ANH? Probably. The latest TLJ trailer seems to acknowledge this. I guarantee this doesn't bother Luke ******* Skywalker, so I don't know why it should anyone else.

Also, don't forget that Kylo (Ben), isn't trying to kill her....he's trying to recruit her.  Also, there's been a lot of talk about her being so adept in the force by the time of that fight.  Remember, when Kylo (Ben) is probing her mind, she's able to see into his as well.  What else did she pull out of his head other than his grandpa fandom?
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Offline Darby

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #55 on: October 25, 2017, 03:31 PM »
Quote
Also, don't forget that Kylo (Ben), isn't trying to kill her....he's trying to recruit her.

This. He could have killed her outright - and Finn - and chose not to.

Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #56 on: October 25, 2017, 03:42 PM »
I won't quote your post, Darby, but it's spot on. 

I don't get the "how is she so powerful to use Jedi mind tricks (or what have you)" argument.  We don't even know Rey's past except she was dumped on Jakku.  Her vision of the slaughter of the Jedi suggests that she might have been there when it happened, so she might have some training, no matter how little of using the Force.  Her life on Jakku suggests that she's had to defend herself with that staff.  When Luke Skywalker is mentioned, Rey's eyes light up, so she knows about him.  Perhaps she's heard tales of Jedi's powers, of mind tricks and decides to try it out on Starkiller Base (after her mind battle with Kylo Ren) and it works.  Not too hard to believe... especially since she fails on the first attempt.

As for the lightsaber battle, everyone says Kylo is a Sith master.  Nowhere in the movie (I don't delve into books, etc) does it say he is a bona fide Sith apprentice.  He's under Snoke's tutelage.  There's no mention of how many lightsaber battles he's had with others that have had training.  All we know is he slaughters defenseless old men and maybe a Jedi (or perhaps a padawan who has less or equal experience than he.

Of course, this is all conjecture at the moment until TLJ enlightens us on some things.

Offline Darby

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #57 on: October 25, 2017, 03:50 PM »
There's no mention of how many lightsaber battles he's had with others that have had training.  All we know is he slaughters defenseless old men and maybe a Jedi (or perhaps a padawan who has less or equal experience than he.

All of this and I've recently begun to wonder what Kylo's role in the actual attack on the temple was. We know he turned, and betrayed Luke, but I've been having a hard time visualizing him leading an attack against numerous Jedi disciples (of varying skill) that apparently Luke was also present for. The TLJ trailer at least suggests Luke was there, and if he was, then Kylo would have been in a similar situation with Rey, but worse. So there are some missing pieces for sure.

Offline Jesse James

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #58 on: October 25, 2017, 09:26 PM »
Here's how I view Rey and it's kind of a more elaborate bit of my Tweets that Darb mentioned...

Rey, Finn, they're kids who've only experienced the OT as a fairy tale.  Especially in their respective forms of seclusion.  The title of the film, the behavior of the characters (new ones), is all about this awakening.  For Finn it's a moral awakening (assuming he's not forcy), and for Rey, it's the series of events that lead her to "THE Han Solo", someone she's only heard of in stories, and who she seems to revere in some fashion.  To them though, things like the Force and the previous wars, they're tales...  Not real even, in some cases, but Han sets them straight.  I feel that's the first "awakening" of the Force in Rey, but it goes further on to her interaction with Maz and the Saber, then her ultimate initial meeting with Kylo Ren (someone she may or may not have a strong link to, in one way or another). 

I really feel like he unlocks something in her when he tries probing her mind...  That obviously goes to ****, for him, and she fights back...  how does that happen?  Who knows.  She "feels it"?  Whatever, she feels an ability to resist, and she does.  She's been told the force is true, and she's now feeling the force within her, in her ability to resist Kylo Ren's interrogation stuff.

She's possibly heard of the mind tricks, and things, that these fabled people were able to do...  She's seen she can resist Kylo when she tries.  Why not try something else?  She even has a "holy crap that worked!?" look after she tricked the trooper.  Abrams couldn't make this stuff more obvious to the viewer if he'd diagrammed it.

OK, so flash forward...  She's in the woods, she immediately loses her first attempt at fighting Kylo, and loses bad.  Finn tries, loses.  He has the physical ability to fight.  He's trained to fight (Rey's seemingly learned how to do that in her years spent on Jakku as well), and Finn bests Kylo slightly because Ren seems to view him as worthless, but ultimately pisses him off and loses to him.

OK, Rey's waking up...  she sees someone she's grown to care about and love.  She's someone who's been abandoned and doesn't take relationships lightly I imagine, and she sees Finn lying there possibly dead.  The force awakens, but what finally opens it completely?  Not something good.  It gives her strength, she fights Kylo, it's relatively evenly matched but like was said, Kylo is arrogant, he's ignorant, and he loses ultimately.  People seem to be willingly ignoring that Kylo Ren is apparently powerful but he's still a newbie too.  That's even confirmed when he's requested to be brought back for his training to be completed.

So there's Rey, she "wins", but it's an emotion-filled, uncontrolled one.  It's Luke when he goes from farmboy, to sniper, after seeing Kenobi cut down.  He'd have stayed, and likely died at the hands of Vader, had he not listened to the spirit in his head.  She wins, but it's not like she knows what she's doing.  She knows she doesn't know what she's doing.  I think the argument could even be made that it's the "will of the force" that the planet cracked open at that moment and separated them at the end.

OK, so putting aside the entire "I hate girls, and don't like when they're allowed to play in Star Wars" side bull**** that sparked all this, the only actual discussion going on about the movie here is why does/doesn't JTA blow as a film...  Trying to distance the topic from misogynistic overtones that have no place int he conversation, I feel then that the argument that Rey is a "Mary Sue" (I have no idea WTF that even means or what that comes from.  I'm old?) is as easily arguable/debatable as pointing out that Luke is the same level of ability without training.  Likewise, so is Anakin.

So is almost any origin story of any force-sensitive character in any media format in Star Wars lore.  It's fiction, who the hell cares, right?  Right.  You can't "force wrong".  There isn't some black/white definition that this is how this works and it works exactly the same for everyone.  That's dumb.  And Disney bought this not to make films of the books from the 90s, so get over that ****, it's a ship that has sailed.

I don't have daughters.  My girlfriend is only passively interested in Star Wars at all, and it doesn't really matter to me about the character being a girl or a boy.  If having it be a girl opens Star Wars to more people, and makes it more inclusive, I can't see how that would upset you.  Likewise, I think all the arguments being made to why Rey isn't a good character are stupid beyond belief, and she's every bit as good or believable a character as Luke or Anakin were...  To me, that argument implies you're either blind to how much you actually should hate the other two trilogies, or you're being a dick because she's a girl.  She's doing nothing more expertly or quickly than the aforementioned have done.  Luke blocking lasers like a ninja to Anakin being a 9 y/o Wunderkind.  On top of all this, there are two more movies to "explain" stuff too, which aren't even out yet.  Good lord.

Regarding how much he believes his own bull**** over yonder?

I don't have a clue there...  He does sometimes strike me as a talking head who says outrageous **** because he knows it gets him attention.  He's also catering to a distinct audience that agrees with him though, so it's not hard for me to accept that he's totally believing the stupidity he spews forth.  There are ample supporters in his echo chamber of sanctimony.

I can't say I care if you like TFA or not.  It made $.  It continues to make $.  8 will make $.  9 will make $.  I didn't like a lot about the PT but still enjoyed them I guess, and I don't care who likes Star Wars or not.  Quite frankly if less people did it'd make going to the movies easier for me, haha.  I thought Rogue One might be a smaller crowd and opening, but it was just as nuts.

One thing I will say though, there do seem to be a LOT of Star Wars "fans" who are only happy when it rains.  I'd rather escape politics and life when I'm watching a movie, not inherently go into it hating Disney, and thus hating Star Wars now.  The fact that there is a Star Wars facet to discuss here is the only thing that really interests me.  The whole woman-hating thing is just gross to see.

BTW, a woman character was leading the Death Troopers on Rebels Monday...  I can almost hear the triggered rage across the state.  ::)
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Offline Darby

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Re: Taking Back Our Hobby
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2017, 12:39 AM »
All of this.

I have nothing to add, except that if you as a SW fan are so threatened by a woman of power or strength, then what was Princess Leia to you? And if she was nothing, then you are not a fan. You never were.