Author Topic: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread  (Read 18818 times)

Offline Dave

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #30 on: May 29, 2018, 09:09 AM »
Apparently Memorial Day weekend is just about the worst weekend to release a movie historically.  I know in the old days Star Wars was always released in the week preceeding Memorial Day...

Although $85 million for Solo for the weekend I think was solidly below expectations.  I think they were estimates that it would be about $110.

Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #31 on: May 29, 2018, 05:00 PM »
I apologize if this has been discussed already.

I read a comment that I first dismissed but only because I don't feel this way. Then I thought more about it.

There are a lot of Star Wars fans who were kids when PT was released. Young adults now for ST. I'm sure they enjoyed the OT but maybe it's bottom of their list.

Now they don't care about a movie about how Han Solo got his start, etc........ 
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2018, 02:27 AM »
Ed and Dave I agree...  I think this was a bad weekend and it was too close to December’s movie.  I’d prefer them finding a time and sticking to it. 

Nick I think that’s fair too.  At least to some degree.  I’m not sure it’s a solid notion because I think Nostalgia drove a lot of TFA for instance...  I’d like to think the other factors played a major role but I think there is at least some truth there.  And the “old fans” appear to make up the majority of the rampant bitching too...  I am glad Solo wasn’t a terrible film and was really good in my view, but at the same time I feel like Star Wars def needs bigger gaps in film releases.

Not sure why the Marvel formula doesn’t seem to apply here quite as much.
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Offline Phrubruh

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2018, 03:32 PM »
More Star Wars geeks are mental patients than comic book nerds are?
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Offline Brian

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #34 on: June 3, 2018, 02:56 PM »
Man, reading through some social media stuff today, and it seems like this topic has really blown up (again). Stuff between SW Action News and JTA, stuff between Chuck Wendig and Rebel Force Radio, and just comments back and forth all around. I hate to see SW fandom go this way. There have always been things that people don't necessarily like, whether it is ewoks, Jar Jar or prequels, but I don't ever remember it being this toxic. Some of it may be real world factors that fan the flames a bit. I wish people could just like what they like and not have to resort to hate and name calling to those who disagree. It doesn't matter when you became a fan, how big your collection is, or what your favorite movie is. It really is kind of ruining Star Wars fandom. I enjoy coming online to read everyone's thoughts and opinions on Star Wars stuff as a sense of community. Honestly, most of my "real world" friends don't have the deep fandom of Star Wars, so it is nice to share with those who do. It is too bad it has become such an us vs. them scenario.

Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #35 on: June 3, 2018, 04:38 PM »
The most disillusioning thing is that we can't just disagree and discuss/debate it. It has to turn into an all out war. I never should have stepped out of my Jedi defender bubble. It's pretty cozy in here. I miss my ignorance
« Last Edit: June 3, 2018, 04:41 PM by GrandMoffNick »
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Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #36 on: June 3, 2018, 04:43 PM »
Is there anyone on JD.com not seeing Solo because you didn't ask for this movie? I'm just curious.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #37 on: June 3, 2018, 05:18 PM »
I am a huge Dark Forces/Jedi Knight game and storyline fan.  I never asked for, nor did I want at first, a Rogue One story because I knew it would kinda blow up Katarn’s mission to get the Death Star plans and then it also fudged a part of XWing too which I love.

But I wound up loving it.  It would take something epically bad for me to say I’m not going to watch it at all.  I can’t see turning your back on Star Wars.  Then again I look T this stuff from Disney as really just EU since Lucas isn’t making it.  It’s like if new Middle Earth material comes out.  How can you look at it as on the same level as Tolkien’s work unless you personally see or read it and you think it’s good enough for YOU and whatever your personal standard is.

A billionaire could’ve bought Star Wars from Lucas and shuttered it if he wanted.  Disney just outbid the next company....  more or less.

I like what I like and don’t what doesn’t suit me and that’s it.  It’s not the big deal people make it out to be.  If you prefer old EU nobody told you to burn your books.  If you hate The ST so be it...

At the same time I’ve seen normal conversations from ST fans and non fans and at some point it boils down to agree to disagree and move on.  At its core is the fact that people who don’t like it can’t stop it from happening and people who do are just simply content.  I don’t personally want to convince someone why I liked TLJ and they should too, but back to your original point GMNick, I also don’t want to talk about it with like minded people only to have a peppering of “TLJ sucks” “Rey is a Mary Sue” “Luke is ruined” and “#NotMyHanSolo” Forced into otherwise normal fun speculating analyzing comparing and commenting. 🤷‍♂️

I couldn’t start a topic on the war on mimban because some shitbags are gonna jump in.  Can do that here of course but in social media or Disqus(t) or whatever, it’s just a mess of angry guys who can’t change the direction Star Wars is headed, don’t want to talk about what is done in the films as it stands, and just want to now basically **** on anyone else’s fun who is enjoying it. 🤷‍♂️
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Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #38 on: June 3, 2018, 06:19 PM »
That's one of the saddest things about all this. You better not dare think you can just have a civil conversation about something from the Disney era. Someone is out there waiting to pounce
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Offline Darby

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #39 on: June 3, 2018, 07:00 PM »
I've avoided posting in this thread and any general thread on Solo for this reason. I no longer enjoy fandom, on really any level. The discourse has become so toxic, and dishonest, that it doesn't serve to risk conversations about things you enjoy or didn't turning into opportunities for people with (in some cases) a moneyed interest in twisting the conversation toward negativity or very often, outright hatred. That's not the case here, obviously, but my passion to engage has been greatly diluted.

I approach things from my own experience as a fan, going back to the Starlite Drive in in 1978. I approach from it being a writer. As a creative person, I like to engage with the conversation in regards to the story and mechanics of it. I approach it from being a human being, living in a world that is bigger than me, and in which SW is only a small (ok, big) part. It seems to me the Paul Harrison's of our community and the other malcontents referenced before approach from an angle where they are the sole propeitors of a world that is so small it fits inside their closets or garages and in which they are the gatekeepers. Any one in charge of it - Kathleen Kennedy, JJ, RJ, George Lucas - are simply imposter kings meant to be taken down.

There is nothing healthy, and nothing worthwhile, in their behavior. It has so many intersections with larger concerns in our society that probably merit conversation, but this isn't the place. I love SW. I like what I like, don't like what I don't like, like Jesse said, and I want to have fun with it. If I can't, I won't. I also won't let people like Harrison get away with his behavior when it comes at the expense of our credibility and our integrity. We're better than him and we need to show people that SW and collecting isn't a gutter where bigotry and misogyny run the shop.

Offline Nicklab

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #40 on: June 3, 2018, 08:12 PM »
Today's social media quagmire seemed to be a significant escalation.  It seemed to stem from author Chuck Wendig engaging some of the "originals".  Notably, on the topic that they had been harassing people who are creating Star Wars content: trolling them on social media, death threats, the works.  Evidently, Jimmy Mac of the Rebel Forces Radio podcast took issue with that.  And it got to the point where he was claiming "ownership" of the Star Wars franchise, stating that it was people like him who had carried Star Wars through the late 80's and up until the prequels.  The ugliness of his message was disgusting.  And I was really glad to see a good number of people shout him down for this sort of nonsense.
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Offline Jesse James

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #41 on: June 4, 2018, 02:38 AM »
I’m not a big podcast guy so I wasn’t even sure what was going on totally there Nick so thanks for clearing some of that up for me haha.

I don’t know that dude and stuff but I hear a LOT of “original fans” talk.  As a dude who was collecting prior to a modern line existed, who had the WEG books as the EU, and who saw the films as a kid when they came out, I get so sick of people trying to say “well the old fans hate this Disney crap!”

No YOU hate it.  Don’t lump me into your generalizations!  But there is so much of that going on. 

Likewise nobody cares if you hate it either.  Leave the rest of us alone who aren’t obsessed with hating it or *gasp* maybe even like a lot of it.

The most normal conversations I’ve had with people who didn’t like TLJ were here for the most part and with CorranHorn (who’s also here) on Facebook.  That has been it.🤷‍♂️

The Star Wars twitter account wished Kathleen Kennedy a happy birthday and the tweet had to be deleted because of the **** that was said in it.  That is sad on a level that should just simply be embarrassing to everyone in it.
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #42 on: June 4, 2018, 06:57 AM »
The Star Wars twitter account wished Kathleen Kennedy a happy birthday and the tweet had to be deleted because of the **** that was said in it.  That is sad on a level that should just simply be embarrassing to everyone in it.

I agree that the way people have treated Kathleen Kennedy is inexcusable.  The people who have engaged in the vitriol need to just stop it.  If they don't like the direction of the franchise?
 Direct that negative energy elsewhere.

The one thing to note about that birthday message?  Evidently the Star Wars social media team screwed up, because Kathleen Kennedy's birthday is actually tomorrow.


I feel very much the same about this "originals" crap.  These guys really need to get over themselves and get some perspective.  I was in the theaters when the movies came out, too.  I can vividly remember each time I saw the OT in the theater.  I remember my uncle actually taking out a 16mm copy of ANH from the local library and watching that at his house, projected on the wall.  We even had VHS copies of ANH and TESB in the early 80's because we had VHS way back when and had bootleg copies.  I watched those ENDLESSLY.  And while I love the franchise, I don't feel this sense of.... ENTITLEMENT.  I just don't get where that comes from.

Now maybe it's because I drifted away from Star Wars in large part from 1984 until the Special Editions came out in the mid 90's.  FWIW, I liked the Special Editions of ANH and TESB.  I didn't get worked up about the whole "Han shot first" thing.  And because of scheduling issues I didn't even make it out to see the SE of ROTJ.  I didn't really start collecting again until '98.  And I didn't really get into the novels like the Thrawn trilogy that some of these guys said were keeping things alive before the TPM got the movies rolling again in 1999. 

But since then I've been with the franchise through it all.  I have taken the movies and tv projects for what they are.  I like some more than others.  But I have never felt like I have the standing to tell an author or filmmaker how they should be doing their job.  Maybe my perspective is different because I'm engaged in creative avenues because I'm a musician, I have worked on original projects (songwriting, albums, etc) and I have respect for other artists?  Creating something new is difficult: not everyone is going to like what you do.  It's just the nature of art/writing/filmmaking, etc. 

But this vocal minority has really gone too far.  Especially with these delusions that would lead you to think that it was THEM that carried a property that was one of the most successful film franchises of all time.  It makes this whole "originals" thing look like such nonsense. 

Someone actually wrote up a meme and posted it to Twitter, and it does seem to sum up the toxic state of fandom that has existed ever since George Lucas started releasing the prequel trilogy

Quote
FIRST...
You charge the guy with ruining your childhood
Then you never let him forget it.
(There's even a documentary!)

Then he sells his company
And you're like YES.  MAYBE IT'LL BE GOOD AGAIN
(But you're also like NOW MICKEY MOUSE WILL JUST RUIN IT)
(Even though you just spent 10 years complaining about how ruined it is)
(And the "It" in question is a family film series about space wizards)

So the person he handpicked to run the studio starts running it
And she starts immediately making billions with well-received films
But there's too many girls
And it doesn't feel special to you anymore
So you don't like it

And you start talking about how
The old guy should come back.
Even though he likes the movies she's making
The ones he helped create before selling
(which you were happy about.)

And now you hate the woman
(when you're not erasing her by blaming a cartoon mouse)
For not being the guy
That you chased off
For ruining your childhood

AND THEN...
She makes another movie
And gets the star of the old guys's first big success to direct
And goes way overbudget making sure THAT guy sticks to the script
(unlike the guys she first hired)
(they're ALL guys, btw)
(The guys you didn't like UNITL she fired them for not sticking to the script)

The script about the guy's guy from his first movie
(the guy who lives in his car with his dog)
The script written by a father-son team
The father who helped write all the old guy's best movies

And she releases in on the annivery that
(apparently)
defines your childhoold
And it disappoints at the box-office
And you cheer
Because she gave you what you wanted
and you threw it on the ground

So because she catered to your specific tastes
(Whatever they are right now)
And those tastes weren't rewarded
She needs to quit
And they need to bring back the old guy
The one you hated 10 years ago
for ruining your childhood.
Which is apparently
Neverending...


« Last Edit: June 4, 2018, 11:46 AM by Nicklab »
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Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #43 on: June 4, 2018, 07:15 AM »
Thanks for posting that. That got me to laugh out loud
This is the water, and this is the well. Drink full, and descend. The horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within

Offline GrandMoffNick

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Re: The "Original" Star Wars Fans Thread
« Reply #44 on: June 4, 2018, 08:45 AM »
Another quick question. Did I miss the press release or police report where George detailed being held at gun point or was blackmailed into selling Star Wars to Disney?

Maybe he had a script for stand alone Jar Jar movie Disney said they'd tell about it?
« Last Edit: June 4, 2018, 08:46 AM by GrandMoffNick »
This is the water, and this is the well. Drink full, and descend. The horse is the white of the eyes, and dark within