Gas Prices

[ruiner]

Yeah, I heard a report on NPR a while back claiming that Ethanol isn't any cheaper to  produce compared to oil (at least now now).

Who knows, as more and more Ethanol plants begin to pop up, we may see a decrease in the cost -

But as Dressel said, it will decrease our dependence on the Middle East, which in the  end, is a good thing.

[Rob]

If it takes a gallon of oil to produce a gallon of ethanol, we don't decrease our dependence on oil-rich nations at all.

[Dressel Rebel]

Whoa okay, I didn't know you needed that much oil to produce ethanol.  I reckon that's to run the machinery in the factories?  Maybe we can use ethanol to power those as well.  I know it takes a bit of sugar added to the crushed corn paste and some time to get the fermentation going.

[Rob]

If you used Ethanol to make ethanol at a 1:1 ratio - you'd never produce a single net drop of ethanol.  There would need to be some way to make it that wouldn't require as much energy as you'd get out of it.

Anyone know how much energy it takes to run an oil refinery?  I'd be curious about how much oil a refinery uses to refine a gallon of gasoline.

[Scott]

Its not a gallon to a gallon

Better comparison is energy (Btu's)  it takes approx 1 Btu of Crude to produce 1.1-1.5 Btu's of ethanol

Lots of ethanol plants are trying to convert to coal instead of natural gas or crude...which sort of defeats the green purpose of ethanol\

The other big issue is the large amounts of water needed for fermentation...

Its not as easy and peachy as it sounds

[Scott]

The real future of the automobile is in pure Hydrogen and not ethanol.  Ethanol to me is nothing more than a farmer lobbyist subsidy dream come true. 

[Rob]

Before all the talk about ethanol started, I'd read that the problem with Hydrogen was that it required so much energy to produce - same kind of deal as what we've been talking about.

Plus, there isn't an infrastructure in place to deliver hydrogen to cars.

We all need to just move out of the suburbs, into cities and then walk everywhere.

[Darth Slothus]

At least with ethanol there really is no end to the supply. As it is right now..the gov't pays millions of dollars a year to farmers to not farm on all their land. So if demand even opened up we could just justify more farming on unfarmed/cycled soils. Corn is also very forgiving when it comes to soil type as well....it's farmed successfully all over the US .

I think you could rationalize a comparison with how much oil/how often changed you need for an everyday car compared to how much fuel(gas) used. I'm sure the comparison in reality is alot higher in ethanol's favor from the generic 1:1 ratio given.

In other news..oil hit new record of 75$ a barrel today(up from 72$ yesterday) so by this afternoon I bet alot of gas stations raised their rates or definately will be by tommorrow!  

[Scott]

The end of the supply is the water.  You think enviromentalists all over the US will let ethanol companies drain the aquifers and burn coal which in turn will supply ethanol for driving?  I don't see it happening...

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/news/state/13906471.htm

[Famine]

I was in the gas station paying my $7.25 for fuel at the Gas Station today ($3.01 a gallon) and the guy behind the counter (the owner) was taking a phone call and became very frustrated. He hung up and told the fellow next to him that the people in charge of upping the gas price called and told him tommorow morning he'd have to up every type .10 cents.

I'm pissed.

Kevin

[ruiner]

up every type .10 cents.

Really, 1/10 of a cent is not a lot.

 

[Dressel Rebel]

I was in the gas station paying my $7.25 for fuel at the Gas Station today ($3.01 a gallon) and the guy behind the counter (the owner) was taking a phone call and became very frustrated. He hung up and told the fellow next to him that the people in charge of upping the gas price called and told him tommorow morning he'd have to up every type .10 cents.

I'm pissed.

Kevin

A lot of gas stations around here have a warning sticker on the pumps that consists of a cell phone with a red circle and slash through it, stating that cell phone signals have the potential to cause an explosion when used  around gas pumps.

[Force Guy]

I wish I still had my bicycle.   

[Jediknight760071]

I wish I still had my bicycle.   

Welcome Back.

[Rob]

Indeed.