Author Topic: A Game of Thrones (HBO)  (Read 67740 times)

Offline Rob

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #840 on: August 28, 2017, 10:47 AM »
I'm actually a little bummed there aren't more major character deaths. 

I'm not bummed that they didn't all die, but I'm surprised more didn't.  I get that they don't want to run through everyone before the season finale, but just in last night's episode they sort of let you think Arya was going to get it.  They let you think Theon was a goner (and it would have been a very GOT way to go, finally growing some balls (yuck yuck) then being beaten to death by men who no longer respect you.  Then they let you think Tyrion was as good as dead.  Then they let you think Jamie was dead again.

But only Little Finger got it - and we all kind of knew that was coming for a few weeks now.  I'm enjoying these episodes, and I'm excited about where it's going, but it still seems a little lazy in terms of the writing.


Offline Darby

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #841 on: August 28, 2017, 11:32 AM »
I like the finale, some parts quite a bit, but it was also maybe the most predictable of all of them. The wall coming down, Littlefinger and Cersei betraying the truce? DUH. We've all spoken to these things recently.

The Sansa / Arya plot was excruciating. As much as I expected this to be a double cross and liked to see Littlefinger get his, the way the writers took to get there was clumsy. They didn't show any of their work and banked on the shock twist covering for the fact that we don't know really now how Sansa or Arya pieced this together. We can surmise Sansa talked to Bran at some point, but when? Was all the strife between the sisters performative? Sincere until the last minute? No idea.

Similarly, the Euron is actually going to Essos - what? So he planned his faux exit from the Dragon Pit? How could he have done that not knowing what was in the box,? Were he and Cersei going to do this no matter what happened - or did Cersei perhaps know? She seems to know a lot, except which way Jamie is leaning. Seems the writers don't either. He leaves Cersei for lying, again? Not for all the other stuff? I found that weak, and they were just stringing this out to get to the finale.

Jon / Dany - this has been so obvious for so long that I think it lost its impact. I think the only chair they can pull out is for Jon to die again, but for real, leaving Dany with a child and the throne. But I don't know. His super fidelity to the truth - which felt manufactured honesty, just so the Dragon Pit could get to Cersei / Tyrion - is probably going to get him killed. For reals.

I expected more deaths too, but not too bummed by that. I figure people will be dropping precipitously early on next season.

Offline Matt_Fury

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #842 on: August 28, 2017, 11:58 AM »
Similarly, the Euron is actually going to Essos - what? So he planned his faux exit from the Dragon Pit? How could he have done that not knowing what was in the box,? Were he and Cersei going to do this no matter what happened - or did Cersei perhaps know? She seems to know a lot, except which way Jamie is leaning. Seems the writers don't either. He leaves Cersei for lying, again? Not for all the other stuff? I found that weak, and they were just stringing this out to get to the finale.

Cersei said a couple of episodes that she was going to meet with Daenerys in order to just buy time to get the Golden company.  I admit I was caught off guard about Euron actually going to Essos...but it fits very well.  Cersei never had any intention of keeping her word concerning the truce.  I'm glad Jaimie seems to have left for good.  He's such a complicated character and I enjoy his arc throughout the series.

I liked the Sansa/Arya/Littlefinger story.  The tables turning on him in the trial was great.  I still wish it went down more privately where Arya could have killed him and assumed his identity, but that's a minor nitpick.

Looks like we will get Cleganebowl next season.

I had to rewind and turn on CC to get that Jon Snow's real name is Aegon Targaryen.  I have tinnitus pretty bad, but I'm happy to see I'm not the only one who had trouble hearing it.

Looks like Viserion now runs on propane.  I think everyone knew the wall was going to come down, but it was so cool to see!  Tormund and Berric are still alive...no way they get an off screen death.
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Offline Darby

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #843 on: August 28, 2017, 12:06 PM »
I had to rewind and turn on CC to get that Jon Snow's real name is Aegon Targaryen.  I have tinnitus pretty bad, but I'm happy to see I'm not the only one who had trouble hearing it.

I have tinnitus too. I sometimes do this with the TV depending on the native volume of the show or movie and the static in my head. Any time someone comes over, they're always turning down the volume.  :)

Offline Rob

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #844 on: August 28, 2017, 12:17 PM »
I don't have tinnitus, and I couldn't make it out.

Offline Jeff

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #845 on: August 28, 2017, 01:07 PM »
Something has happened on this show and I can't quite put my finger on it... but I'm not loving it the way I used to love it.

Maybe it's sloppy writing or maybe it's my expectations, but a lot of my "book love" is making me have a hard time with the show these days...

1) I-magic Dragons.  All we heard about was how it was a Magic Wall filled with ancient magic.  Only to be taken out with dead dragon fire....  ok, fine - But then what was Night King's plan without the dragon?  How was he gonna get through the magic, impenetrable wall without the dragon he lucked into last week?  Or are we pretending that his plan all along was to get one of Dany's dragons to take out the wall... which I'm not sure how he would have known they were even alive?

2) Agree with Darby - felt let down with the whole way the Sansa/Arya thing went down with Littlefinger.  Glad he is finally gone and shown for the fraud he was, but just seemed like it was just a lazy, clunky way to go about it. Agree that it would have been nice seeing them figure it out instead of trying to make it a surprise twist that everyone saw coming for the most part.

3) Plot Expo-fest 2017 with Sam and Bran.  Nothing like spelling it all out for those who haven't been paying attention the past seven years I guess.  Nice to get Jon's real name, I guess. But again, just a clunky way to get that info out... right as Jon was getting a little incest on... so strange and creepy.  If only someone would let Jon in on it finally.

For the most part, I liked the finale.  Just didn't wow me the way I was hoping.  Hoping this Night King stuff has some purpose to the overall narrative in the story and isn't just a flashy distraction to the seven kingdoms issues. 
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Offline Rob

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #846 on: August 28, 2017, 01:14 PM »
1) I-magic Dragons.  All we heard about was how it was a Magic Wall filled with ancient magic.  Only to be taken out with dead dragon fire....  ok, fine - But then what was Night King's plan without the dragon?  How was he gonna get through the magic, impenetrable wall without the dragon he lucked into last week?  Or are we pretending that his plan all along was to get one of Dany's dragons to take out the wall... which I'm not sure how he would have known they were even alive?

Yeah, the whole time I just expected them to show up and force their way right through the reinforced doors, then they'd just walk under the wall.

Never mind that if you knocked down a 1,000 foot tall ice wall there would be a 250 foot tall pile of ice left over...

Offline P-Siddy

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #847 on: August 28, 2017, 02:08 PM »
All this is thinking outloud for discussion... it's been awhile since I've read the books/seen the last season so fresh perspectives are welcome

1) I-magic Dragons.  All we heard about was how it was a Magic Wall filled with ancient magic.  Only to be taken out with dead dragon fire....  ok, fine - But then what was Night King's plan without the dragon?  How was he gonna get through the magic, impenetrable wall without the dragon he lucked into last week?  Or are we pretending that his plan all along was to get one of Dany's dragons to take out the wall... which I'm not sure how he would have known they were even alive?

Could the Night King have been made aware of the existence of the dragons and what is/has been going when Bran touched him in his "vision"?  Since that broke the spell that kept the previous three-eyed raven safe, maybe NK got some other knowledge as well? 

But, yes, whatever happened to the horn that was rumored to be the only thing to bring the wall down?  Just a myth?

3) Plot Expo-fest 2017 with Sam and Bran.  Nothing like spelling it all out for those who haven't been paying attention the past seven years I guess.  Nice to get Jon's real name, I guess. But again, just a clunky way to get that info out... right as Jon was getting a little incest on... so strange and creepy.  If only someone would let Jon in on it finally.

Targaryens were okay with that kind of stuff, Lannisters have no problems with it... no biggie, right?

Offline Darby

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #848 on: August 28, 2017, 03:36 PM »
Quote
1) I-magic Dragons.  All we heard about was how it was a Magic Wall filled with ancient magic.

Yep. I think this would have been helped by getting the Night King to the wall sooner, and have them stymied by the magic of the wall. I'd buy the magic of undead dragon trumping that, but yeah, what was his plan? To just hang out? Everyone just hangs out on this show lately until they're needed, which is a symptom of the writing issues this season. I don't know the exact reasons they're so quick to wrap up the show this way, but spending all this time to set up things you then speed through is never successful. There's a different between the pace picking up and dominos falling as a narrative collapses, but this is, at times, clumsy and stupid.

Offline P-Siddy

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #849 on: August 28, 2017, 04:36 PM »
Could this be a case of the writers being past the established GRRM and find themselves struggling to keep the narrative voice?

Offline McMetal

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #850 on: August 31, 2017, 08:14 AM »
It's plausible that the ancient spells carved into the foundation of the Wall were negated when the NK marked Bran in his vision. Similar to how he was able to get into the Tree and kill the 3 eyed Raven.

I think NK's backup plan probably had to do with freezing the sea next to the Wall and just walking around it. That was what a lot of people were speculating was going to happen early on because of how the topography in the opening credits has changed over time.

Another good theory I have read is that the NK is part of a time loop with Bran and they both are either the same person or some kind of opposite/mirror images and he already knew what was going to happen with the dragons and all way ahead of time. At least that would explain having those giant iron chains hanging around so conveniently.

I definitely agree the show has changed markedly over the years. The pace was much better when they had the books as a blueprint. Once they got past that point it seemed like they were just in a mad rush to move things along. They could have stretched these last 13 episodes into 3-4 seasons easily. I don't understand the rush, I would think given the awesome ratings that would want to stretch it out as long as they could.
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Offline Dave

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #851 on: August 31, 2017, 01:32 PM »
I definitely agree the show has changed markedly over the years. The pace was much better when they had the books as a blueprint. Once they got past that point it seemed like they were just in a mad rush to move things along. They could have stretched these last 13 episodes into 3-4 seasons easily. I don't understand the rush, I would think given the awesome ratings that would want to stretch it out as long as they could.

I think most of the rush is probably based on some of the actors (Emilia Clark) not having an interest in continuing this series.

Offline BillCable

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Re: A Game of Thrones (HBO)
« Reply #852 on: August 31, 2017, 01:41 PM »
Yeah - they already get paid pretty well.  Renegotiations at this point would be very expensive.  I would have preferred two 10-episode, balanced seasons to close it out.   But they're probably compressing it to 13 over 2 seasons to abide by whatever's already contracted.  The original plan was 7 seasons, IIRC.

I don't think the writing is suffering because they don't have the books anymore.  Season 6 extended beyond the books and was genuinely fantastic.  Even the beginning of Season 7 was very strong.  There have just been a handful of genuinely bad decisions to close out Season 7... and my feeling is that they're all of the sort of "We want to show X because it'll be super cool looking - let's work backwards and make that happen."
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