JediDefender.com Forums
Multimedia => The Prequel Trilogy => Topic started by: Brian on October 20, 2005, 11:47 AM
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Now that we're all wrapped up with our Saga, at least on the movie side of it (most likely), are you happy that Star Wars was revisited in the prequel movies? I've read some comments over the years that some people feel they shouldn't have been made, been made differently, or should have left certain things undone. Overall, are you happy we got more Star Wars movies, do you think they fit in with the Original Trilogy?
I've seen comments over the past few years that we "shouldn't have seen Yoda have lightsaber/fight", we "shouldn't have seen Palpatine with a lightsaber/fight", "shouldn't have seen Anakin/Vader as a kid", "shouldn't have seen little Fett", "no Midichlorians", etc, etc. Are there any statements like that you would make, things you kind of wish we wouldn't have seen...for whatever reason. Maybe it tainted your vision of the character/story in some way, or just didn't seem right.
I think overall I'm glad we had the prequels. It brought Star Wars back to the forefront for a few years, and overall I liked the movies....especially Revenge of the Sith. Aside from this latest movie, I don't know that the previous prequels really "fit" with the OT like I would have hoped/liked, but now as an overall Saga I can appreciate it more. I can honestly say that I don't often watch TPM or AOTC on DVD, but I do like them both. I sometimes try to think about it clearly if I like them as movies, or just because "its Star Wars". There are definitely aspects of both that I like a lot, and some parts that I really don't care for. Overall though, it has been nice to extend this Star Wars ride a little longer, and I'm definitely glad we can an installment like ROTS that helps to bridge things together...or even as a stand alone film, answer some "backstory" questions of our favorites from the OT. I did/do enjoy the prequel trilogy, and I think the only thing that held me back from enjoying it more overall was that I didn't seem to have quite as much connection with the characters (as with OT). Some of that might be nostalgia or just a general preference for the cast of characters in the original movies though too. I can say that I was really excited about each prequel movie as it came out, and I saw it, but with the exception of ROTS, my excitement over them faded a little over the months/years. I still like them, but like I said, don't really get the inkling to watch them much. Anyways, I guess what I'm asking, what do you think of the Prequel Trilogy? Are you glad it was made? If not, what would you have rather seen?
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I get a little wishy-washy with my opinion on them. Granted, I was happy to see new Star Wars movies, but I just feel that TPM and AOTC were wasted opportunities.
That and these movies took themselves too seriously with all this mythological nonsense and political intrigue, so it makes them more than a little boring.
I understand the reason for having Anakin as a child in TPM, but maybe (as said in another thread here) it could have been a cartoon series. I guess showing him as a good kid makes his fall to the Dark Side that much more tragic than if Lucas had started the tale with Anakin as a late teenager.
And AOTC was totally treading water. I really wanted the whole thing to be about the Clone Wars, but I guess you have to explain why both sides have huge armies. And they have to have a reason to fight.
I also thought having both Dooku and Maul was a mistake. Either one or the other. I was talking to Darby about this once, and he was of the opinion that Dooku should have been the bad guy in TPM, doing away with Maul entirely. I thought Dooku should have been excised, and a toned-down Maul as the baddie.
In order to conduct Seperatist business, he'd wear makeup over his face like Tim Burton's Joker or a mask like GI Joe's Destro.
And I thought the midichlorian thing wasn't necessary. Pre-TPM, I thought of the Force as this thing that certain people were just sensitive to. It never entered my mind that little lifeforms would be the reason the Force worked. I guess I saw it more as a religious thing rather than biological.
I might be the only person in the world who didn't have a problem with Shmi's "immaculate" conception. I still wonder if Palpatine's master created Anakin, but that's just more retconning on Lucas' part more suitable for a comic book, IMO.
Yoda fighting- I think it was just to get people to see AOTC. I don't really have a problem with it other than that. It was nice to see Yoda wield a lightsaber a prove that size doesn't matter. (It's too bad more women I meet never took that to heart.)
Overall, I'd have ditched the episode numbers entirely, and added another flick between AOTC and ROTS since there's so much story and character evolution that could have been told. As any decent writer should realize, nothing drives character evolution better than conflict, and with a war that's being fought across a ******* galaxy, that would have been an excellent opportunity to show Anakin's skill and arrogance, not to mention his and Obi-Wan's friendship that was glimpsed only briefly in ROTS. They went from student/master to brothers between films, and I don't think a few short cartoons can do it justice, and as awesome as the CW cartoon was, it didn't meet that expectation of mine. It made some attempt in the second season, but it still didn't live up, IMO.
Plus, with another flick, we could have seen Clones kicking ass and a few huge battles that are the hallmark of Star Wars movies.
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I'm happy I got to see the prequels, real happy - but to be perfectly honest, I'm not very proud of them sitting in my collection, especially lined up beside the original trilogy...
From TPM to ROTS, the acting goes from terrible to decent, for the most part... say what you will about the acting in the OT, but I find the PT to be traumatic at times, because the acting is so bad... plus, the writing is really horrible, for the most part, and the pace is inconsistant in the most retarded ways, the story itself is all jumbled up with plot holes and what not, etc, etc, etc...
TPM is easily one of the most disapointing movies I've ever seen. Really. It alone makes me wish, at times, that the PT was never made...
At the start of the movie, I was digging TPM, and was thinking it'd be 'Pretty damn good', because I was really digging the relationship that Obi-Wan had with Qui-Gon, and the way they handled negotiations... but my feelings for TPM changed once Jar Jar showed up - the whole 'Exqueese mesa!' **** got so tired really, really, really fast... I felt like I was going to vomit several times throughout the film. Padme was garbage, Jar Jar stepping in 'Poo Doo' was ridiculous, the whole midichlorians bull**** was disgusting to me, Yoda looked like ****, somehow, Maul was underplayed, The Battle of Naboo was nonexistant, Obi-Wan's defeating Maul was underplayed, Qui-Gon was underplayed, Anakin and his dialogue combined made for pure ****...
I'm very bitter about TPM, obviously.
AOTC was 'Better', but still full of junk... ROTS was 'Even Better', and thankfully had less junk...
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I like all of the prequel movies, better than the OT. I don't really have any reasons, but I just do.
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Happy?!? Not at all! They suck so much. Episode 1 is my favorite, and Episode 3 is my least favorite. The acting is embarressing, the FX are distracting and the story makes very little sense. Lucas shat on the franchise.
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I am glad they were made. I wish Lucas had handed the directing reigns to others like he did with ESB and ROTJ.
The direction and acting were so uninspired that it got embarassing at times. Episode III was on the right track, but it still had many of the flaws (even if they weren't as magnified) that the first two displayed.
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I enjoyed the prequels, and the entire saga. That's why I collect those little toys. However, Saving Private Ryan, Apollo 13, and movies like that they are not. For me Star Wars is pure entertainment for escape and I enjoy it for that. I think I like the OT because I grew up with them (12 in 1977 to 18 in 1983). My 11 year old son loves the Prequels because he grew up with them.
Overall the prequels were okay, not great not good. To put it into a more pop culture term, "They are what they are" though they could have been so much more. That is where I agree that Lucas should have hired someone else to direct it.
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The prequel trilogy is god's gift to mankind, and if you don't agree you're a ******* idiot.
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Sorry...matkatnadam took over my keyboard for just a minute there.
they could have been so much more.
My thoughts exactly. While the overall PT ended up being a big disappointment (despite a strong finish with ROTS) and didn't nearly live up to its potential, I'm still glad I was able to see three new movies in the Star Wars saga. There were just too many mistakes made for me too take them too seriously though. Lucas should have stayed as far away from the director's chair as possible and let someone with some talent do that job. He's a great storyteller but a horrible writer and terrible with actors. The stories were good and there were some good characters, but the execution was horrible and the end result were two very dry and uninspiring movies plus a good movie with a handful of dull and uninspiring moments. And I hold a bit of a grudge against the PT...without it, Crazy George never would have had reason to make his abhorrent changes to the OT.
So, am I happy with it? Nah, not necessarily, but I'll still pop in a DVD from time to time. :)
John
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Happy?!? Not at all! They suck so much. Episode 1 is my favorite, and Episode 3 is my least favorite. The acting is embarressing, the FX are distracting and the story makes very little sense. Lucas shat on the franchise.
OH, MY, GOD! Someone who completely agrees with me. :o
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I don't know why ROTS was lauded by everyone. It is definately the weakest of the bunch storywise, acting-wise and FX-wise. Not that the FX were necessarily bad, there were just too many scenes with FX in them. And by too many I mean EVERY FUC*ING SCENE! >:(
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I don't know why ROTS was lauded by everyone. It is definately the weakest of the bunch storywise, acting-wise and FX-wise.
How so? Not that there is anything wrong with feeling that, but what do you think made it the weasest story and how was the acting worse?
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I don't think you can knock the acting. An actor can only preforem as good as the director allows and ROTS's problems lie so far deeper than acting. I think the story is whact kills the movies, everything else just follows suit because without a good story, you can't tell one.
For me, the entire PT's story was week because:
1, it dumbed down to the audience. The entire prequel trilogy's immediate threat, the federation, was a collection of incompitant baffons who built an army about as threatening as Gilligan.
2, it destroyed the Jedi myth established in the OT by making them no more flawed than you and me. It worked for Luke because he starts out as you and me, but he was working toward something different.
ROTS was the accumulation of the week plots couplted with the most pivitol moments inthe SW universe. Not a good combination.
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I think that George was doomed to fail. Here is my reason:
Everyone expected the prequels to make them feel the same as they did when they saw the first trilogy when they were children. This was impossible, it was never, ever going to happen and when it didn't the whole thing got blasted, ripped apart, dissected and analysed.
Now is that the films fault or the over protective viewer who will never have their expectations matched?
Did anyone do this kind of analysing when they were 9,10,11 or however old they were when they first saw the OT. Vader was bad because he was bad, I know I didn't analyse every single line of dialogue, every movement or every motivation or whether his lightsaber swapped hands mid duel.
You have to remember that it was not the same as seeing something for the first time like when the Star Destroyer chased Tantive IV across the screen.
The FX in the OT was innovation and cutting edge at the time and the PT still is progression in a film making field, but perhaps people are more jaded now, less able to be fooled than the 9 year old and seeking FX that DON'T look real instead of reveling in what are arguably most believable FX ever seen so far.
IMO CG is being bettered in every new film that is being released, look at the CG in TPM then ROTS (also LOTR to King Kong) and you can see that in the what is it, six or so years how far it has come.
Anyway, enough waffling. Am I happy? YES, the whole SW phenomenon has allowed me to relive my childhood through toys etc. and experience it with my family as my daughter has now inherited my Geek.
Only today I have been trekking around toy shops looking for a General Grievous (with no luck I might add).
The films could have been a little better in places but I am now 31, but to my 4 year old daughter, they are the best films she has seen.
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GL may have been doomed to failure, but that's just for living up to the hype. He didn't have to help the failure along by slapping us around with horrid dialogue and characters that speak like Jar Jar. Just imagine Episode I just having the Gungans speaking normally. It instantly raises that movie!
Sure there are a TON of plot points I'd love to see changed as well. Such as: making the jedi seem like something tough (they die so easily), cloning Darth Maul, keeping Windu around till the end and not making Yoda seem like such a whimp.
All-in-all I'm glad they were made, just sad at the quality. They were capable of so much more. I'm happy GL doesn't want to do anymore because of how poorly he did the PT.
I wouldn't mind GL allowing some of the better EU books to be made though. As long as he has no say in the dialogue!
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I think you can narrow down to the exact reason why the PT was less that the OT. Gary Kurtz. Seriously. If you study how the films were made, you'll clearly see what Gary did to make ANH ans ESB the genius films they were. I'm not discounting GL's talent. SW would not be without him. However, Kurtz was the one who challanged George, made him better. There are many example where George wanted to do things one way and Gary said, that way doesn't work for this reason, you really need to do it another. There was almost none of that in the PT, and you can see that on the screen.
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I think you can narrow down to the exact reason why the PT was less that the OT. Gary Kurtz. Seriously. If you study how the films were made, you'll clearly see what Gary did to make ANH ans ESB the genius films they were. I'm not discounting GL's talent. SW would not be without him. However, Kurtz was the one who challanged George, made him better. There are many example where George wanted to do things one way and Gary said, that way doesn't work for this reason, you really need to do it another. There was almost none of that in the PT, and you can see that on the screen.
I TOTATLLY agree. Mr. Lucas has nothing but yes men now. No one challenges him to push further. No one saw the dialogue and told Lucas that it was, at many times, just horrible. You here stories from the OT about Harrison Ford approaching Lucas and suggesting line changes. I've never heard of that on the PT.
I can't believe no one on the set didn't notice either. The collaboration of minds to create a better result is important, you rarely catch your own spelling mistakes.
I wish I could be a movie proof reader, oh that would be a great job!
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Overall I am happy that the prequels were made but like most of you I feel that there were several missed opportunities. There were alot of great concepts (Maul, Clones, etc.) but they were never really utilized as well as they could have been.
I agree that it should have been Maul or Dooku but not both (I would have picked Maul). By the time Maul showed that he was the terror we had been expecting, he was dead. Besides Maul just came off as this amazing fighter and you had no touble believeing he could take on two jedi at once, whereas old man Dooku was just a bit of a stretch, sith lightening or no.
I think Lucas weakened Boba Fett's character by having him appear as a child. It makes him less ruthless and more pitiful <which is the same thing he did to Vader throughout the PT>. I think that AOTC and TPM could have been combined into one movie with the leftovers being in the opening crawl of what should have been The Clone Wars.
Another thing that I think is unfortunate is that we never really got to see the Padawans/ Knights training. Yoda alludes to how hardcore it is in Empire but all we get is kiddie stuff. It would have been nice to see Anakin training, and that would have been a great opportunity to develop his cockiness and everyone else's wariness of him.
Anakin should have been played by the same actor all the way through the movie. They should have just dropped the plot point about Jedi having to train since they are children for the sake of continuity and charcter development. Just because Yoda said Luke was too old didn't mean that you needed to be 3 years old when you started. I think 16 would have been reasonable and they could have made Hayden pass for 16 (he didn't need to be super young, just younger than Luke.)
Last but not least George should have allowed a better director to work with these actors. While you can usually find at least some fault with the actors I blame Lucas and here is why. If you have seen Hayden Christensen, Sam Jackson, and Natalie Portman in ANY other movie you know they are excellent actors. But in the prequels they just seemed to not give all that they were capable of. When that many good actors aren't performing up to snuff that says bad directing to me, talent without guidance. Lucas' singlemindedness may be what got the original movies made but it really functioned as a double edged sword this time around.
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i loved them all ! they were all awsome ! my faviorte was ROTS because of all the clones you get to see ;D
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As individule movies I think they are weak.
As a trilogy they don't far much better.
However, I think they make the original trilogy better. They give it more depth, more emotion and the whole story is enhanced.
Gl gets a pat on the back from me but no gold star.
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I think TPM is just okay, but Maul is the main reason (probably the ONLY reason) that I like it.
AOTC is getting on my last nerve. Horrible acting, unrealistic fights, boring dialogue sequences, and plus, I watched it about 100 times between when it came out on video to now. I'm sick of it. I never want to watch AOTC again unless it's some sort of all-6-movies star wars marathon.
ROTS is by far my favorite out of the prequels. But it does rely a little too much on special effects than plot or dialogue. Well, the plot was great and all, but it could have been spiced up a little. The main reason it's my favorite of the PT movies is how it's so dark. I mean, sure, in ESB the Empire wins that time, but then in the next movie, the Empire is destroyed and none of the stuff in ESB really mattered. That's not how it is in ROTS. The evil and dark things reign over the galaxy for 19 years, and then finally after all that time, the Rebellion comes through and destroys the Death Star.
:)
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I thought TPM was great. It had the "feel" of ANH, and was just a fun movie all-around. Maul was awesome, and the 3-way lightsaber duel was cool.
AOTC was okay. The Jango/Obi-Wan fight was awesome, as was the last 45-60 minutes of it. It's just that the first parts of it, save for the Speeder chase and the Jango/Obi-Wan fight, were so utterly boring.
ROTS was fantastic. It had everything. Lots of lightsaber duels, we got to see the Galactic Empire in it's early days, space battles, ground battles, the Jedi Purge, etc. It had lots of things that tied in to the OT, like Tarkin and the Imperial Officers, a new alphabet ship (V-Wing), Palpatine's deformed face, Vader in the suit, etc. But most of all, it felt like Star Wars.
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TPM definitely could have been better, far better in fact. AOTC had it's moments of SW greatness but still didn't quite reach it. ROTS was the pinnacle of the PT though. Awesome movie. I just wish they would have delved more into Anakin's character since the whole SW saga is essentially about him.
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I liked the PT,I think ROTS is better than ANH or ROTJ,not ESB thoe.
TPM is # 5 on my favorites list,Mual seemed to be like Vader so cool & like the main villian,but he apeared for 5 seconds.Jar Jar was OK,but he could of been an actually funny charcater.Anakin's lines were annoying "Wizards!".
AOTC was my least favorite of all 6.The beginning of the movie until Anakin & Padme get on Geonosis was Boring excluding the Obi vs. Fett fights (Kamino & space).Boba couldof had more of a better response if he was a teen & wasn't like TPM Anakin.Anakin's& Padme's love scenes were AWFUL!
ROTS is my second favorite film,next to # 1 ESB.I liked the clones & Grievous.Anakin had much better lines in this movie than in the last movie.The duels were great (The Dookufight was boring thoe).The only disapointing thing was the Kashyyyk battle was too short the commercials built that battle so much & it was 20 deconds long. :-\
Grievous' "Time to abandon ship was so cheesy it was actually funny.
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After following Star Wars fandom on the net since late 1998, I am convinced I am the only one on the planet who loves all six films equally.
All of them have their flaws. But I will never view the Star Wars movies critically. They are my escape from the real world, they are my hobby and they keep the kid in me alive. Those are things I could never be critical of.
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My biggest complaint with the Prequel Trilogy is George Lucas. He is the one who allowed all the bad acting to continue. He is the one who let CGI tell the story. I mean, come on. Not 1 actor in a Clone Trooper uniform?!?!?!?!? Do they all have to be CGI?
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My biggest complaint with the Prequel Trilogy is George Lucas.
So you'd rather that George had nothing to do with the prequels? That's interesting, especially since he's the only one who had the rights to make them. ::)
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So you'd rather that George had nothing to do with the prequels? That's interesting, especially since he's the only one who had the rights to make them. ::)
You probably didn't know this, but George Lucas didn't direct Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi.
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So you'd rather that George had nothing to do with the prequels? That's interesting, especially since he's the only one who had the rights to make them. ::)
You probably didn't know this, but George Lucas didn't direct Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi.
But if it wasn't for George's existence, none of the movies would have been made. And the people who directed ESB and ROTJ probably had to get GL's approval to direct the movies rather than just direct the movies on their own.
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And the people who directed ESB and ROTJ probably had to get GL's approval to direct the movies rather than just direct the movies on their own.
Ya think?
Well, you'd be totally wrong.
The way the story goes, Irvin Kershner, with not a lot going on during the long summer of 1978 and totally behind on his child support, needed some cash, fast. After a bit of brainstorming, he came up with the brilliant idea to direct a sequel to the previous summer's blockbuster, Star Wars. Thankfully, Lucas was totally cool with it, and thus, The Empire Strikes Back was born.
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Yep, that's how they made them. :P
Lucas picked Kershner & Marquand, they agreed. Speilberg was going to do Jedi but he wanted too much. ::)
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Lucas picked Kershner & Marquand, they agreed. Speilberg was going to do Jedi but he wanted too much. ::)
Get the hell outta here, dude. The fact of the matter is, if Kersh hadn't been way behind on his child support, he never would have come up with the idea to do a sequel to Star Wars, and the saga as we know it never would have happened.
Anything else you've heard over the years, you can chalk up to revisionist history.
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first off i gotta say my opinion has changed many times on this subject, but having just recently watched all three prequels on dvd.starwars.com i'm extremely happy with them. i'm the type whom was generally forced into agreeing to disagree with everyone over TPM & AOTC. but since ROTS i feel that those two are validated and actually quite good in the long run, and there was a time when i loved lotr trilogy over prequels but have within the last year practically lost all interest in Rings. (there was a sad time when my wife and i only owned the entire extended trilogy, so they got played it out.)
but i have still yet to watch all six in a row, i've tried. but the days aren't long enough.
another reason i've come to enjoy this trilogy more, is the expanded universe which sadly i haft to say without it my interest in starwars wouldn't be half as strong.