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Community => JD Sports Forum! => Topic started by: Mikey D on September 2, 2008, 08:44 AM

Title: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Mikey D on September 2, 2008, 08:44 AM
Well, the offseason is just about over and the regular season begins Thursday with the NY Giants ( >:( ) hosting the Washington Redskins.  Make your predictions.  In the meantime, here's week 1's TV coverage maps:

CBS Single Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-01-CBS.html)

Fox Early Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-01-FOX1.html)

Fox Late Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-01-FOX2.html)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on September 2, 2008, 10:21 AM
Lame, they're giving us Philly/St. Louis despite the Tampa/New Orleans game being by far the best game on the early schedule.   
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on September 2, 2008, 10:56 AM
NFC North: Vikings
NFC East: Cowboys
NFC South: Saints
NFC West: Seahawks
Wild Card: Redskins
Wild Card: Packers

AFC North: Steelers
AFC East: Patriots
AFC South: Indy
AFC West: Denver
Wild Card: Browns
Wild Card: Jaguars

Super Bowl: Colts over Cowboys
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on September 2, 2008, 04:38 PM
NFC North: Vikings
NFC East: Cowboys
NFC South: Saints
NFC West: Seahawks
Wild Card: Bucs
Wild Card: Cardinals

AFC North: Steelers
AFC East: Patriots
AFC South: Indy
AFC West: Chargers
Wild Card: Denver
Wild Card: Jaguars

Super Bowl: Chargers over Cowboys
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on September 3, 2008, 01:47 AM
So you both think the Cowboys will get the "we can't win a playoff game" monkey off their back?
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Mikey D on September 3, 2008, 11:57 AM
NFC North: Vikings
NFC East: Cowboys
NFC South: Saints
NFC West: Seahawks
Wild Card: Giants
Wild Card: Eagles

AFC North: Steelers
AFC East: Patriots
AFC South: Jaguars
AFC West: Chargers
Wild Card: Colts
Wild Card: Browns

NFC Championship: Cowboys over Saints
AFC Championship: Patriots over Jaguars

Super Bowl: Pats over Cowboys
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on September 3, 2008, 12:13 PM
So you both think the Cowboys will get the "we can't win a playoff game" monkey off their back?

Yeah, I think they were finally embarrassed enough to figure out how to handle themselves next time.  And I think they got better on defense too, especially in the secondary.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on September 5, 2008, 06:00 PM
The Giants looked good last night.  They should have a good season.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on September 5, 2008, 06:49 PM
I think they're looking at 8-8 if they don't take the handcuffs off Manning. 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on September 5, 2008, 09:02 PM
I think they're looking at 8-8 if they don't take the handcuffs off Manning. 

Agreed.  He had a few passes that really should have been picks.  Outside of the rushing score, which was was the result of penalties not the offense, I was very dissapointed in the Giants, despite the win.  At least Burress looks to be back in top form.  The real game of the week will be the Monday night game when the Vikes come in to Lambeau and trounce the Pack.   :-\
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Diddly on September 5, 2008, 09:17 PM
That Giants/Redskins game was pretty boring IMO... no scores in the second half? Meh.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Theo Zissou on September 7, 2008, 03:57 PM
NFL wooo!!! :) A little farve magic today. been fun to watch. it is against the phins though. In my money league looks like i'll be getting the win. my rb's are a little weak but Bush just got me some good points with a td. would of been something if KC could of upset the pats. and wow how about Hotlanta? Ryan and Turner looking good.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on September 7, 2008, 11:24 PM
I'm a little sore that McGahee was supposed to start and didn't get a carry, but yeah, lots going on today!  Lookit how good all the new guys are - K. Smith, M. Turner (New as a starter), Chris Johnson, Tim Hightower, Matt Forte...

Game of the week starts tommorrow at 6:00.  Let's see if AP is the real deal.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Force Guy on September 8, 2008, 12:42 AM
Bye bye Brady.  See ya next year.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on September 8, 2008, 01:27 AM
Fantasy sports enthusiasts around the nation just took a big dump in their shorts. 

And the Steelers cruised past the Texans...  ;D  Here we go Steelers, here we go!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on September 8, 2008, 08:10 AM
Bye bye Brady.  See ya next year.

Greatest news for the year. I was pretty much flipping out at the Jets for Miami's last drive but then i got that amazing news.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Dressel Rebel on September 8, 2008, 09:57 AM
Bye bye Brady.  See ya next year.

Greatest news for the year. I was pretty much flipping out at the Jets for Miami's last drive but then i got that amazing news.

Classless.

I wouldn't get too excited about the Jets until the 15 next best teams suffer injuries to their best players.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on September 8, 2008, 10:27 AM
Bye bye Brady.  See ya next year.

Greatest news for the year. I was pretty much flipping out at the Jets for Miami's last drive but then i got that amazing news.

Classless.

I wouldn't get too excited about the Jets until the 15 next best teams suffer injuries to their best players.

You are entitled to your opinion but i think a coach signing with a team only to quit on them pretty much the next day is classless.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Dressel Rebel on September 8, 2008, 10:40 AM
Calling an injury to any player "great" and "amazing" news is universally regarded as the most classless thing a fan can do.  Regardless of any coach's employment status.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Mikey D on September 8, 2008, 11:05 AM

You are entitled to your opinion but i think a coach signing with a team only to quit on them pretty much the next day is classless.

Did you feel that way when Parcells was still the coach of the Pats, took them to the Super Bowl and then left for your Jets before the confetti had even finished falling on the Packers (and some would say the deal was in place even before then)?

Look, it's a devastating start to the season.  However, the Pats will still win the division, there's too much talent on both sides of the ball.  It'll be tougher, sure, but I still think they get it done, especially with their cupcake schedule. Will the win the Super Bowl?  Probably not, but who knows - maybe they'll catch lightning in a bottle twice and surprise us all.  And no team plays with a chip on their shoulder more than the Pats when people start counting them out.

And everyone's harping on the Jets and the gunslinger barely beating the Dolphins as the team to worry about.  I think people need to look to the team that plays in Western NY.  They looked pretty impressive (from what I saw) beating a pretty solid team in the Seahawks.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on September 8, 2008, 12:06 PM
I have no doubts that the Pats will still win. Like you mentioned they do have an easy schedule. I think if the Jets make the playoffs they will be lucky to get the #6 spot.

I just hate the pats, their coach and dislike brady. If Parcells did the same thing (i never heard talk of a deal being done before hand) then it was wrong as well.

Like i mentioned, you guys are entitled to your opinion but i am happy to see the "perfect team" brought down just a little bit.


On a side note: I am really happy Chad did well yesterday. I still wish they could have kept him with the team in some capacity. I hope he does well and that they get a good win next week.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: I Am Sith on September 8, 2008, 09:15 PM
Game of the week starts tommorrow at 6:00.

Wow, what a barn burner so far... 10-6 late in the 3rd...  And I thought that The Bears had quarterback issues going into this season...  Looks like they are not alone with their brethren to the far North...

*EDIT* GreenBay just scored again, 17-6...
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on September 9, 2008, 12:33 AM
Game of the week starts tommorrow at 6:00.

Wow, what a barn burner so far... 10-6 late in the 3rd...  And I thought that The Bears had quarterback issues going into this season...  Looks like they are not alone with their brethren to the far North...

*EDIT* GreenBay just scored again, 17-6...

24 to 19 and it was a pretty good game in my opinion.  Only crappy part was that Grant didn't get that final block to make it a 59 yard TD run.  Cost me a week #1 game in my other league.   :P
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on September 9, 2008, 01:15 AM
Jay Cutler played really good tonight against the Raiders.  I think they will have a good season.

San Diego may still win the division, but the Broncos could very well be strong contenders for the wildcard.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Ryan on September 9, 2008, 02:22 AM
It definitely was a fun game to watch for Bronco fans tonight. Gotta love beating up on da Raidas. :) Eddie Royal looked fantastic. The Broncos passing game is going to be scary good this year. The O-line was really impressive tonight Cutler had plenty of time and we were running well tonight. That was my biggest concern with the offense. Oakland is a pretty good defensive team, I think putting up 41 against them will be a big confidence builder. If the defense can figure out how to stop the run this year, I wouldn't be surprised to see them give San Diego a run for their money in the division. If not... missing the playoffs again may well be in the cards again this year.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on September 9, 2008, 01:00 PM
Jay Cutler played really good tonight against the Raiders.  I think they will have a good season.

San Diego may still win the division, but the Broncos could very well be strong contenders for the wildcard.

They pounded the Raiders, but keep in mind that it was just the Raiders.  I'll believe they're for real when they do this to a decent team.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Ryan on September 9, 2008, 02:18 PM
Jay Cutler played really good tonight against the Raiders.  I think they will have a good season.

San Diego may still win the division, but the Broncos could very well be strong contenders for the wildcard.

They pounded the Raiders, but keep in mind that it was just the Raiders.  I'll believe they're for real when they do this to a decent team.

That's true for the most part. But The Radiers do have some really good talent on defense. Asmuhoa(sp?), Hall, Huff, Morrison, and Howard are all quality young players. The Raiders have the talent, they just need to figure out how to win games. (Not that I mind seeing them struggle horribly every year. :))
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on September 9, 2008, 06:32 PM
The Raiders have the talent, they just need to figure out how to win games. (Not that I mind seeing them struggle horribly every year. :))

Amen to that.  Oakland is one team I love to hate.

I hope I don't get stabbed for typing that.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Mikey D on September 10, 2008, 02:41 PM
Week 2 TV Maps:

CBS Early Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-02-CBS1.html)

CBS Late Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-02-CBS2.html)

Fox Single Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-02-FOX.html)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Morgbug on September 10, 2008, 07:52 PM
Look for me at the Vikings game ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on September 10, 2008, 08:53 PM
Look for me at the Vikings game ;D

And we would recognize you how...?  ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on September 10, 2008, 09:36 PM
He'll be the one wearing purple and white.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jeff on September 10, 2008, 09:43 PM
Actually, he'll probably be the one wearing the Winnipeg Jets jersey.... with matching Jets touk.  ::)

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Morgbug on September 10, 2008, 10:32 PM
Crossed my mind, but we're on the Colts side and wearing blue just wouldn't work for this game.  I am a fool Vikings fan, after all.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on September 13, 2008, 03:34 AM
I think you'll recognize him by his flapping head, full of lies.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on September 13, 2008, 01:49 PM
I think you'll recognize him by his flapping head, full of lies.

Hunh?  ???
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jeff on September 13, 2008, 03:54 PM
"Blame Canada!
With all their beady little eyes
And flappin' heads so full o' lies!"

(http://www.jedidefender.com/jsmentek/supportcanada.bmp)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: DSJ™ on September 13, 2008, 04:18 PM
Canada! Beady little eyes!  :P

(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i306/DSJcdn/Random/gopher1.gif) 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on September 13, 2008, 10:21 PM
Ike!  Don't kick the baby!

Just an FYI for those that haven't heard.  The Ravens/Texans game that was moved to Monday night is now complete cancelled and they'll play later in the year.   :P
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Theo Zissou on September 14, 2008, 07:46 PM
Woooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! How bout them Bronc's?  going for the 2 poins and the win! what a game.

Marshall really messed me up in that game though. wow! 18 catchs and 251 points.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on September 14, 2008, 08:08 PM
Mangini's play calling sucks beyond belief as do the refs. Some bad calls in the game. They are going to get killed next week against San Diego.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on September 14, 2008, 09:40 PM
The Broncos need to step up on defense.  They let a lot of points get up on the board today.

Glad they beat San Diego though.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Theo Zissou on September 14, 2008, 09:53 PM
no doubt we were lucky to get that call and the chance to win. True on the D. man i'm glad to get this one :)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on September 14, 2008, 09:55 PM
The Giants had a big win against the Rams today.  Granted, I don't think the outcome shocked anyone, but it's nice to see them put big points on the board.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on September 14, 2008, 10:24 PM
no doubt we were lucky to get that call and the chance to win. True on the D. man i'm glad to get this one :)

Broncos should have lost that game.  I only saw the highlights, but they won an earlier challenge on a call that should not have been reviewable and Cutler's fumble at the end was not a forward pass (seeing as how the Ref said he made the wrong call afterwards). 

Looks like the team to beat this year is A. Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers.  Dropping 48 large on Detroit? Ouch.  2 and 0 baby!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on September 14, 2008, 10:42 PM
This may sound grumpy or "playa hatin"...but 2 weeks into the season and I am SICK AND TIRED of players trying to get calls from the refs...pass interference, face mask, Illegal Formation.... STOP the Madness.  I think it took at least till the middle of the season last year before it annoyed me to this point..

For those people who hate on Soccer players for playing up to get the call...this is how it started...it was one or two players who would Fall...and grap their ankle no matter where they were hit (it seemed)... mark my words in a few years..every incomplete pass will have players on both sides calling for Pass Interference....

Ok, I'm over it now...just had to rant...the wife would have said .... "Then don't watch"...and perhaps found something else for me to do...
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Theo Zissou on September 15, 2008, 12:36 AM
no doubt we were lucky to get that call and the chance to win. True on the D. man i'm glad to get this one :)

Broncos should have lost that game.  I only saw the highlights, but they won an earlier challenge on a call that should not have been reviewable and Cutler's fumble at the end was not a forward pass (seeing as how the Ref said he made the wrong call afterwards). 

Looks like the team to beat this year is A. Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers.  Dropping 48 large on Detroit? Ouch.  2 and 0 baby!

I was happy to see the bronc's win that one. nice to be up on the division. It really shouldn't of been so close though. i think at one point we were up 3 scores before they came back. I'll take it though. exciting :)

Pack looking good no doubt. I'm happy for rodgers being a cal fan. the falcons put up 34 on detroit though. the Lions have now allowed 921 yards and 82 points in just two weeks.  I'm really looking forward to the pack and cowboys next sunday night should be a really entertaining game.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on September 15, 2008, 08:22 AM
Pack looking good no doubt. I'm happy for rodgers being a cal fan. the falcons put up 34 on detroit though. the Lions have now allowed 921 yards and 82 points in just two weeks.  I'm really looking forward to the pack and cowboys next sunday night should be a really entertaining game.

I'm going to be at that game, so I predict Dallas over Green Bay 38-0  ::)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on September 15, 2008, 01:45 PM
Quote
the wife would have said .... "Then don't watch"...

Hah, so I'm not the only one told this...  This answer always pisses me off about 50% more than I already am too.  It's always at the worst moment to pipe up with smart assed remarks.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Mikey D on September 15, 2008, 02:08 PM
Mangini's play calling sucks beyond belief as do the refs. Some bad calls in the game.

I know, right.  I saw at least two delay of games on the Jets that weren't called.

My favorite play from yesterday was AT's 20 yard sack of not just the gunslinger, but the running back as well.

Woooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!! How bout them Bronc's?  going for the 2 poins and the win! what a game.


If I had just one itsy bitsy bit of like for the Chargers, I'd feel bad for them.  Too bad I think they're all a bunch of whiny bitches.

Brent, were you (and by you, I mean the entire stadium) booing Jackson or the play calling?  I assume the latter, that was horrible.  Running all over the Indy D and then decide to throw on 3rd and short? Wow.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on September 15, 2008, 02:29 PM
Speaking of whiny bitches... how about Peyton Manning slamming the ground and pouting all over the field yesterday when things weren't going his way?  He's so spoiled when it comes to moving that offense that the minute they hit a wall he acts like a 2 year old who had his lollipop taken away.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on September 15, 2008, 07:23 PM
Mangini's play calling sucks beyond belief as do the refs. Some bad calls in the game.

I know, right.  I saw at least two delay of games on the Jets that weren't called.


Are you a pats fan? Personally i can admit when the Jets suck like they did yesterday and Mangini sucked. There were like three 12 men on the field penalties, that should not happen. With that said, I think the refs got the offensive pass interference call wrong as with the roughing the passer.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Mikey D on September 15, 2008, 09:39 PM

Are you a pats fan?

I am.  I was just pointing out that the bad calls go both ways, that's all.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on September 16, 2008, 01:18 PM
Speaking of whiny bitches... how about Peyton Manning slamming the ground and pouting all over the field yesterday when things weren't going his way?  He's so spoiled when it comes to moving that offense that the minute they hit a wall he acts like a 2 year old who had his lollipop taken away.

I have to say, I used to think Manning was a pretty good guy, but he had that whiney upset look almost the entire vikings game.  Maybe that's just his look when he's worried, but looked to me like he needed to man-up a little.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on September 16, 2008, 02:32 PM
My Direct TV signal died just after half-time last night.   :'(
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: knashdx on September 16, 2008, 03:22 PM
My Direct TV signal died just after half-time last night.   :'(


Comcast wouldn't do that to you!!!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on September 16, 2008, 05:17 PM
My Direct TV signal died just after half-time last night.   :'(


Comcast wouldn't do that to you!!!
They will cut off your downloads though!!!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on September 17, 2008, 12:38 AM
Sunday night the remnants of Ike hit through Ohio and mostly just sent high winds into the Pittsburgh area, so I'm watching the game at my gf's place and figure I'll just pick it up when I get home...  Well her power was fine, I leave and listen on the radio on the ride home, and I get home to no friggin' power...  I spent the last 15 minutes of the game sitting in my car with the wind whipping around outside while I listened to the Steelers, once again, kick Cleveland's ass.  :)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Mikey D on September 18, 2008, 08:25 AM
Week 3 TV Maps:

CBS Early Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-03-CBS1.html)

CBS Late Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-03-CBS2.html)

Fox Single Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-03-FOX.html)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on September 18, 2008, 10:18 AM
Speaking of whiny bitches... how about Peyton Manning slamming the ground and pouting all over the field yesterday when things weren't going his way?  He's so spoiled when it comes to moving that offense that the minute they hit a wall he acts like a 2 year old who had his lollipop taken away.

I have to say, I used to think Manning was a pretty good guy, but he had that whiney upset look almost the entire vikings game.  Maybe that's just his look when he's worried, but looked to me like he needed to man-up a little.

It looked like a spoiled brat face to me.  Like he was really pissed off that he couldn't hit his speedy receivers in stride for 60 yard pick ups with ease and was going to stomp his little feet about it instead of staying upbeat and rallying his team.

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on September 18, 2008, 12:38 PM
It looked like a spoiled brat face to me.  Like he was really pissed off that he couldn't hit his speedy receivers in stride for 60 yard pick ups with ease and was going to stomp his little feet about it instead of staying upbeat and rallying his team.



Perhaps it was just constipation.  ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on September 21, 2008, 08:23 PM
Man that Giants game was exciting!  Of course I hate watching a game where your team damn near gives you a heart attack!   :D

Broncos had a good game as well.  I thought they were going to run away with it, but the Saints made a game of it.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on September 21, 2008, 08:35 PM
Lots of good, close games today.  We were going nuts for the 4th quarter and OT of the Bucs/Bears.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on September 22, 2008, 03:04 AM
The Steelers O-Line and anyone with a blocking assignment sucked many large dicks today.  They all deserve to be fired if they weren't such a bunch of whiney bitch ass contract loser dickheads.  >:(  The O-Line needed reworked from last year, and instead of that they just simply let Faneca go without trying to fix a damn thing with it.  The only reason they ever look good is because Roethlisberger MAKES them look good, and they should be ashamed.  They looked like a bunch of unconditioned 11 year olds. 

And if I see Nate Washington drop one more ball in his hands, I think I'm going to pull my hair out.  I don't know how anyone gets to this level that drops this many easy catches.  ******* moron.

Today sucked but the D was f'n outstanding and kept them in the game with Philly...  I actually had a coach tell the kids once that Defense simply isn't as important as offense...  That coach is a peckerhead for even trying to teach kids that because as I watched today, Defense was all there was to cheer about.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on September 22, 2008, 10:32 AM
Lots of good, close games today.  We were going nuts for the 4th quarter and OT of the Bucs/Bears.

Yup.

Bears D can't hold past the 3Q.  Same thing happened last week.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on September 23, 2008, 08:26 AM
The most wonderful thing about being a Jets fan is preseason when we all have hope and then of course reality always sets in around week 3. Same old Jets, same old story. I think i should become a freelance fan, it would be much easier.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Mikey D on September 25, 2008, 10:33 AM
Week 4 TV maps...

CBS Single Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-04-CBS.html)

Fox Early Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-04-FOX1.html)

Fox Late Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-04-FOX2.html)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Dressel Rebel on September 25, 2008, 05:23 PM
The most wonderful thing about being a Jets fan is preseason when we all have hope and then of course reality always sets in around week 3. Same old Jets, same old story. I think i should become a freelance fan, it would be much easier.

I think you can still count on 9 big wins from the Jets, they can win 8 of their next 13 easy.  The Patriots and Chargers were 2 tough games at the beginning of their schedule, and the rest of the way is not bad at all.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on September 25, 2008, 10:18 PM
I think you can still count on 9 big wins from the Jets, they can win 8 of their next 13 easy.  The Patriots and Chargers were 2 tough games at the beginning of their schedule, and the rest of the way is not bad at all.

How tough was the Pats game really though?  That division is a little hard to figure out after watching Miami beat up on the Patriots, who beat up on the Jets, who beat up on the Dolphins.

Meanwhile the Bills are beating up everyone.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on September 26, 2008, 12:25 PM
I think you can still count on 9 big wins from the Jets, they can win 8 of their next 13 easy.  The Patriots and Chargers were 2 tough games at the beginning of their schedule, and the rest of the way is not bad at all.

How tough was the Pats game really though?  That division is a little hard to figure out after watching Miami beat up on the Patriots, who beat up on the Jets, who beat up on the Dolphins.

Meanwhile the Bills are beating up everyone.

I have no faith in the Jets. I think that 9 games is possible but its not enough to get into the playoffs. If they don't make it in, the season is pretty much a failure and next years puts right back at the same point...without a QB.

As for the Bills, yeah theyare taking the AFC east without question.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Dressel Rebel on September 26, 2008, 03:04 PM


I have no faith in the Jets. I think that 9 games is possible but its not enough to get into the playoffs. If they don't make it in, the season is pretty much a failure and next years puts right back at the same point...without a QB.

As for the Bills, yeah theyare taking the AFC east without question.

Okay, well, I'm a Giants fan, not a Jets fan by any stretch of the imagination, but i'll ink them for 9 wins, maybe 10, and a playoff spot.

I'm pretty confident but we'll see.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on September 29, 2008, 09:50 AM
Well i don't have to give up yet since they won but that third quarter alwasy makes you wonder about them. Still, i can't remember the last time the Jets put up 50 points.

That collision at the end of the game looks really bad in person, not sure how it came off on TV. Glad that it wasn't as bad as it looked.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on September 29, 2008, 03:58 PM
Once Mangini, the offense and Farve get on the same page, I think you'll see more games like yesterday from the Jets.  I think they'll get the wildcard.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on September 30, 2008, 10:29 AM
ONce Mangini, the offense and Farve get on the same page, I think you'll see more games like yesterday from the Jets.  I think they'll get the wildcard.

Define 'like' - because I don't think the Jets are putting 50+ points on anyone again.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on September 30, 2008, 02:26 PM
Decisive victories.  Not necessarily 50 point blow-outs, but not won or lost in the last two minutes of the game either.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt Carroll on September 30, 2008, 03:09 PM

Define 'like' - because I don't think the Jets are putting 50+ points on anyone again.

Well, the Jets do play the Broncos later this year.  :-\
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on September 30, 2008, 03:53 PM
And once again the Steelers O-Line stunk up the stadium...  A win is a win, but man they gotta do something to get those dumbasses in gear.  Way too much pressure on Roethlisberger.  I will say it showcases what an outstanding QB he is though.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on September 30, 2008, 03:55 PM
Third string RB now?

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on September 30, 2008, 04:40 PM
Uh yup. :(

Not that he did bad last night either, just that nobody had a foggy clue who he was, and given our line's abilities, I'd hate to go with anything less than Mendenhall who runs people over ala Bettis.  Any night Parker has a bad night, it's pretty easy to attribute it to his line as well.  Bah. >:(

I've not read the news yet to see what's up with the rest of our injuries to know who's likely to be back soon, I just know Mendenhall left with a bad shoulder.  He had a good night going though...  Had some real big runs and some good power through the pile now and then.  Reminded me of Bettis, who I greatly preferred over Parker.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on September 30, 2008, 04:55 PM
I thought I heard Mendenhall was going on IR and done for the year
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Morgbug on September 30, 2008, 04:57 PM
From Yahoo:

Quote
Tue, Sep 30 Mendenhall suffered a fractured shoulder against Baltimore on Monday night, and is out for the season.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on September 30, 2008, 05:04 PM
Damn, yup that's it for him.  Not sure when Parker's due back, but given the pounding he'll inevitably face, and his smaller stature, he'll not last without a competent back-up.

Mendenhall was kickin' some ass last night too.  That's gotta be disappointing for him.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on September 30, 2008, 05:47 PM
Damn, yup that's it for him.  Not sure when Parker's due back, but given the pounding he'll inevitably face, and his smaller stature, he'll not last without a competent back-up.

Mendenhall was kickin' some ass last night too.  That's gotta be disappointing for him.

I think its safe to say that having a fractured shoulder is dissapointing whether you're already having a good night or not.   ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on September 30, 2008, 05:50 PM
Eh, injuries are injuries...  I think most players take them in stride unless they're career-threatening.  But it's the fact it was his first starting game, MNF, a season-ending injury.  He just has to be very disappointed in the turn of events as it really happened at a  ****** time.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on September 30, 2008, 10:42 PM
Steelers signed Najeh Davenport (again), to fill in the rb spot (again).  Supposedly another will be signed but I didn't catch who if it was mentioned.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on October 3, 2008, 10:56 AM
I think Davenport was the guy who pooped in his girlfriend's closet.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on October 3, 2008, 11:33 AM
Indeed he was.  Bucs fans (and probably everyone) affectionately referred to him as the packers number 2 running back.

IIRC he pooped in her laundry basket, which was in the closet.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on October 3, 2008, 02:05 PM
Indeed he was.  Bucs fans (and probably everyone) affectionately referred to him as the packers number 2 running back.

IIRC he pooped in her laundry basket, which was in the closet.

Dumping in the laundry basket is totally different than a random close location.  This guy apparently has some standards.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on October 6, 2008, 02:03 AM
Steelers made a great game of today's Sunday primetime game.  And they earned they week off pretty well I think as they're banged up bad. 

It was great seeing Jacksonville lose to us though, been a while, and our back-up backs really did a great job I thought.  Now if we could only get an o-line to protect Roethlisberger, as that's a problem that isn't going away at this point.  It's sad to watch some nights.  ::)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on October 6, 2008, 06:21 PM
Man the Giants played extremely well, and the Seahawks played extremly poor!  Nice to see the G-men start 4-0 and playing very well.  I highly doubt they will go undefeated, but they might get that don't-make-it-to-the-playoffs-following-a-Suerbowl-victory monkey off their back.

We had the Miami vs San Diego game here and you can definitely see Parcell's influence on that team already.  Glad to see that team doing well for a change.

Also glad to see the Broncos Defense step up.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on October 6, 2008, 09:30 PM
Time to give some props to Aaron Rodgers.  He fought back to play this week (just like you'd have expected from Favre) and played great despite the injury.  Sucks that they lost a close one, but AR is well on his way to building a new legacy in Green Bay.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Morgbug on October 6, 2008, 11:31 PM
Do the Vikings have to be this dumb, or is Reggie Bush that good?  He probably would have had three returns for TDs if he hadn't fallen down. 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on October 7, 2008, 12:16 AM
I was pissed the 2nd time they punted to him...the third?!?!?  Ziggy Wilf should have went down to the field and fired Chilly right there and then.

Unbelievably, they won the damn game.  I still am sitting here in shock!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Mikey D on October 8, 2008, 01:24 PM
Week 6 TV Maps

CBS Single Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-06-CBS.html)

Fox Early Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-06-FOX1.html)

Fox Late Game (http://www.the506.com/nflmaps/2008-06-FOX2.html)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on October 14, 2008, 02:37 AM
Damn, the Giants blew an opportunity to pull away from the rest of the NFC East tonight.  Eli did not play very well at all tonight.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on October 14, 2008, 04:54 PM
Wow..The Cowboys got Another Roy Williams today...should be a good fit...it was good to see some Cowboy's news, it has been so quiet around here lately.... ::)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on October 14, 2008, 05:04 PM
Dammit.  With Romo out, Pacman out, McBrier out, and Roy Williams I and Terrance Newman down, I'm suddenly liking the Bucs chances in 2 weeks... Roy Williams coming over doesn't help.

It also kills Miles Austin's limited fantasy value...

Oh, and I wanted the Bucs to trade for Williams... so, yeah.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on October 14, 2008, 06:00 PM
Stop that crazy talk, you are going to Jinx Romo...he might break a finger...PacMan might get drunk and into a fight...McBriar might break his foot and the Cowboys might lose a game...take it back Rob right now...

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on October 14, 2008, 06:40 PM
Hell no.

The Cowboys can win every game in November and December for all I care, but they have to lose to the Bucs.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Ryan on October 14, 2008, 07:03 PM
Wow. Roy Williams is a pretty good reciever but he certainly isn't worth 1st, 3rd, and 6th round picks. The Cowboys got hosed on that one.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on October 14, 2008, 07:09 PM
Wow..The Cowboys got Another Roy Williams today...should be a good fit...it was good to see some Cowboy's news, it has been so quiet around here lately.... ::)

I think it's pretty funny that out of the relatively small number of guys playing in the NFL, two guys named Roy Williams are now on the same team. 

I know Detroit is looking shoddy this year, but surprised to see them throw in the towel already.  I wonder if this will help or hurt calvin Johnson going forward...?
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on October 14, 2008, 07:17 PM
They're also going to wear the same number.   :P
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on October 14, 2008, 09:30 PM
I think they gave up way too much for him. He's a good WR but 3 draft picks is crazy.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on October 14, 2008, 09:50 PM
No doubt, they overpaid.  They're going for it this year, with or without Romo (at the moment).
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on October 15, 2008, 08:58 AM
They better turn it around I have tickets to ebay....and since that loss to Washington..the prices are falling...
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on October 15, 2008, 09:23 AM
Do they really need him with Owens, Witten, Austin, and Crayton on the team?

Looks like they need a CB more than a WR at this point in the season...
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on October 15, 2008, 03:01 PM
I think he is T.O. insurance..

Of course, I'm not sure Dallas needs a deep threat for the next 4 weeks...Johnson does not exactly have the ability for the long pass these days...
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on October 15, 2008, 04:03 PM
Of course, I'm not sure Dallas needs a deep threat for the next 4 weeks...Johnson does not exactly have the ability for the long pass these days...

These days?

He didn't exactly have that ability 5 years ago when he won that Superbowl.  If the Cowboys are going to make big plays in the passing game over the next few weeks, they'll have to rack up a lot of yards after the catch.

BJ is good at getting rid of the ball quickly though on short routes.  If you saw the Bucs/Eagles NFC Championship game a few years ago, that was how he carved them up, and more importantly, that was how the Bucs were able to avoid the Eagle's crazy blitz schemes.  3 step drop, ball gone.  If he can still do that, it could work.  It would also help a struggling offensive line.

Of course, the guy's so immobile, and so old, that he might be on IR by the second quarter this Sunday.

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Neal on October 15, 2008, 11:09 PM
Or, maybe he doesn't end up playing at all:

Source: Romo tells coaches he'll play with broken finger (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3645737)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on October 15, 2008, 11:22 PM
WWFD?
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on October 16, 2008, 12:14 AM
Or, maybe he doesn't end up playing at all:

Source: Romo tells coaches he'll play with broken finger (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3645737)

Source: Source tells Neal that Romo isn't going to play.  Source is me.   :D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on October 16, 2008, 10:40 AM
The only way he plays is if it's not as bad as initially reported.  If it's really broken, and he plays (with or without a split) his velocity and control will be impacted, and he'll struggle to throw the ball, and to hang onto it.

And one bad hit, or exchange from center could make it even worse.

But that's why they have doctors... to help make decisions like that.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Dressel Rebel on October 16, 2008, 04:33 PM
Wow. Roy Williams is a pretty good reciever but he certainly isn't worth 1st, 3rd, and 6th round picks. The Cowboys got hosed on that one.

Not if they win a Super Bowl.  How are defenses now going to stop Roy Williams, Terrell Owens, Jason Witten and Marion Barber at the same time?
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jeff on October 16, 2008, 04:44 PM
If it's really broken, and he plays (with or without a split) his velocity and control will be impacted, and he'll struggle to throw the ball, and to hang onto it.

Aren't they playing the Rams?  Couldn't he play with his whole arm tied behind his back and still have Dallas beat the Rams? ???
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on October 16, 2008, 04:48 PM
Maybe.  You just can't call any of these games this year - just last week the Rams got their first win by beating the Redskins.

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on October 16, 2008, 05:42 PM
Maybe.  You just can't call any of these games this year - just last week the Rams got their first win by beating the Redskins.



Its been an odd year for that.  Still can't get over the Browns destroying the Giants on Monday night.  Dallas is doubly in trouble since Felix Jones is out - Barber is good, but youc an't just run him all day long.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on October 16, 2008, 06:18 PM
Aren't they playing the Rams?  Couldn't he play with his whole arm tied behind his back and still have Dallas beat the Rams? ???

I was going to be all smart-assed and say something like "I don't know, let's ask the Redskins" but, alas, it was too late.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on October 16, 2008, 08:57 PM

I was going to be all smart-assed and say something like "I don't know, let's ask the Redskins" but, alas, it was too late.

No, that was still worth a chuckle.   ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on October 16, 2008, 08:59 PM
Maybe.  You just can't call any of these games this year - just last week the Rams got their first win by beating the Redskins.



Its been an odd year for that.  Still can't get over the Browns destroying the Giants on Monday night.  Dallas is doubly in trouble since Felix Jones is out - Barber is good, but youc an't just run him all day long.

Rashard Choice will save the day!   ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Ryan on October 19, 2008, 04:20 PM
Aren't they playing the Rams?  Couldn't he play with his whole arm tied behind his back and still have Dallas beat the Rams? ???

I was going to be all smart-assed and say something like "I don't know, let's ask the Redskins" but, alas, it was too late.

I guess they didn't get the memo... :-X
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on October 19, 2008, 07:58 PM
Wow. Roy Williams is a pretty good reciever but he certainly isn't worth 1st, 3rd, and 6th round picks. The Cowboys got hosed on that one.

Not if they win a Super Bowl.  How are defenses now going to stop Roy Williams, Terrell Owens, Jason Witten and Marion Barber at the same time?

I don't think we need to worry about that.  There my be a lot of talent on the team, but they play as a bunch of individuals.  Hence the killing they got today by the Rams.

Glad the Giants won today...it wasn't the prettiest, but an ugly win is still a win.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on October 19, 2008, 08:51 PM
The Jets should not be this bad. After the last 2 weeks i thought the offense was finally on the same page but sadly i was wrong.

In some odd way i was actually hoping for the tie.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on October 20, 2008, 12:02 AM
Shouldn't be a problem...the Cowboys have completely imploded.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on October 20, 2008, 01:03 AM
I hope so, but we'll hear a bunch of nonsense this week about wounded animals and backs against the wall and blah blah blah.

I guess a lot of it will depend on whether Romo comes back or not.  And after the way that Brad Johnson played, I'm sure they'll be shooting for a Romo start if it's at all possible.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on October 20, 2008, 02:20 AM
Steelers embarassed a team that nobody thought it could get much worse. :)  Cincinatti's become as annoying to me as Cleveland, so that was just a satisfying win.  Especially watching our new RB tear **** up.  It wasn't against a fantastic defense, but that guy was bouncing the outside, and hitting the hole like a mack truck.  In general though, a great Steeler win.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on October 20, 2008, 09:59 AM
Steelers embarassed a team that nobody thought it could get much worse. :)  Cincinatti's become as annoying to me as Cleveland, so that was just a satisfying win.  Especially watching our new RB tear **** up.  It wasn't against a fantastic defense, but that guy was bouncing the outside, and hitting the hole like a mack truck.  In general though, a great Steeler win.

New RB?
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on October 20, 2008, 03:09 PM
Yeah, Melwede Moore...  Nobody here was familiar with him...  They only said he'd been with Tomlin over with the Vikings, so people figured he had something Tomlin liked.  He was surprisingly fantastic Sunday though.  I was pleased and liked his running style more than Parker...  Small guy too, for how he was pounding the ball.  He's not much larger than I am.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on October 20, 2008, 05:21 PM
Yeah, Melwede Moore...  Nobody here was familiar with him...  They only said he'd been with Tomlin over with the Vikings, so people figured he had something Tomlin liked.  He was surprisingly fantastic Sunday though.  I was pleased and liked his running style more than Parker...  Small guy too, for how he was pounding the ball.  He's not much larger than I am.

He never amounted to much with the Vikes.  I think what we saw this weekend was that Pittsburgh has a great offensive line and Cinci has a crap defense.  Fast Willie would have likely equalled or surpassed M&M's stats had he played.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Ryan on October 20, 2008, 05:30 PM
I think what we saw this weekend was that Pittsburgh has a great offensive line and Cinci has a crap defense.

:-X

I think there are a great number of people in Pittsburg (and around the NFL) that would have to disagree with you on that part.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on October 20, 2008, 06:31 PM
Yeah, from everything I gather, the general consensus is that Pittsburgh's O-line isn't what it used to be.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on October 20, 2008, 08:45 PM
Yeah, from everything I gather, the general consensus is that Pittsburgh's O-line isn't what it used to be.

Being less than its prime is irrelevant.  If it's better than most teams this year, then I'd still call it great.  They may not be very good at giving Big Ben time, but they sure are opening holes for the running game.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on October 20, 2008, 09:13 PM
Quote
I think what we saw this weekend was that Pittsburgh has a great offensive line

I'd wholeheartedly disagree, not that I'm happy about it...  Passblocking isn't even the most complex thing the O-Line does so if they can't do that they're definitely not opening many holes for backs.  Our line's big problems this year are we lost Allen Faneca who was the anchor (though he didn't have a great '07), and we're dealing with some injuries too, some new guys, etc.

I think it was more that we played a team bad against the rush on Sunday really...  Cincy is 0-7 afterall, but really Moore was bouncing outside when he didn't hit the hole head on...  He was finding gaps the line wasn't creating and exploiting them.  He's filling in for Parker nicely, I just hope it keeps up against more staunch defenses.  He's not much bigger than I am, and so with that in mind I tend to think he's more a speed guy, but he was really punishing guys trying to tackle him.

I'm more into those kinds of backs, like Bettis was...  The kind that will pick up 4 or 5 on sheer power.  He was showing that kind of spark Sunday...  Parker doesn't.  he bounces left or right till he finds a hole, and with our line he rarely finds one so he either has to turn it up on the outside or he's down.  Mendenhall was more the back style I liked but he got hurt right away.  I love a tough big short yardage back over speed/finesse...  especially with an O-Line you cannot count on for perfection.

Check the stats on Roethlisberger's sack rate this year and last year, and tell me it's that they just aren't blocking for him.  It's really a TON more than that. :(

Our defense is at least vicious, like always.  I really though Porter being gone would hurt us, but our two outside LB's have stepped up tremendously, and been really dominant d-guys.  Gotta be happy with that.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on October 20, 2008, 09:55 PM
To be fair, you've been down on Parker for a while.  Moore was nothing special in Minnesota and he had lots of chances.  I didn't catch much of the Steelers game, but the clips I saw had MM rushing up the middle, not speeding past guys on the outside.  I do agree that playing a bad defense definitely helps a guy look better.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on October 20, 2008, 10:04 PM
I wouldn't say I'm down on Parker, I love the guy when he plays good...  It's just his style of running isn't matching a weaker offensive line, which is what we have.  We've always had an O-Line that can get it done to an extent, but they've diminished in the last couple years and now we're seeing them collapse on pass coverage, and they'll have days they don't open jack **** for Parker who NEEDS openings to perform.  He's too small to drag guys or hit the hole and make his own room...  Basically we went from Bettis doing that routinely to Parker who needs assistance getting through the line.

Moore was going through some holes dragging guys, breaking loose of a tackle here and there, and he bounced several to the outsides very nicely rolling off the pile...  All marks of a more powerful back than Parker who usually gets stood up when he tries rolling or hitting a filled hole.  When Parker makes it to any kind of room on the end of the lines though, look out.  he's bound to pick up 10 at that point, if not more.  He's a fright when there's room free...  Moore not so much, but he was getting it done every other way, and I like that.

I'm just more a fan of power than speed though.  It's more reliable I find, even against staunch defenses.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on October 20, 2008, 10:35 PM
I'm just more a fan of power than speed though.  It's more reliable I find, even against staunch defenses.

I'm with you there.  Hence my man crush on Brandon Jacobs, and my great enthusiasm for Ernest Graham in the 4th quarter busting 25 yard runs against tired defenses.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on October 20, 2008, 11:04 PM
Moore's biggest problem here is that he would not in any way shape or form play hurt.  When Mike Tice was the coach, MeMo was the featured back for a few games and looked like he'd be the guy of the future and would get a little nicked and he was out for like 4 games. 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on October 20, 2008, 11:16 PM
Haven't seen that yet but he was here because of other guys getting hurt...  All our current backs are either emergency pick-ups or guys way low on the depth chart.  Not sure where Moore fit there but I'm thinking he was low on the chart and we picked up Najeh Davenport who was just chillin', for short yardage stuff.

Our top guys were Mendenhall who's new, and Porter of course was our #1 guy. 

I miss Bettis...  The guy's golden, and man watching him power through a d-line and seeing said d-line collapse as he stomped over them, literally, was a thing of beauty.  THAT was f'n football there. :)

Our kids this year were all finesse and speed backs...  We had one kid willing to hit the hole with any kind of force, and about 3 or 4 others that were straight up pussies and would run outside.  Fortunately I think the o-coordinator has his eyes on my gf's youngest to be a lead blocker next year.  He's all friggin' power, though he's small, and he punishes a defense when he plays smash mouth offense against them. 

He loves defense, and I love watching him tackle more than anything, but I'm anxious to see if he gets slotted in at one of the back positions so he's leading the charge through holes.  He's not lightning quick but man, I've seen him almost knock other kids unconscious on blocks when he's at Tight End, and I just imagine he'll be feared if he's a back.   :D 

He and his brother both have the horrible hands though, despite people insisting they get in the depth charts of their teams at QB.  Neither one can throw, neither one can catch well (though both had interceptions this year on D, and Ian actually caught and ran a 25 or so yard reception in for a touchdown after straddling the sideline...  His mother was practically in tears hitting me on the back, she was so excited, but I digress).

They both run like goons too, but they sure as **** hit.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on October 24, 2008, 03:39 PM
Giants/Steelers match-up should be interesting this week.  I think both teams are fairly evenly matched.

Go Giants.   ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Ryan on October 24, 2008, 09:06 PM
Thank god the Donkeys have a bye this week. I don't think I could sit through another schlacking for awhile after that last game... :-X
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on October 25, 2008, 02:29 AM
Steelers are really banged up so I'm not sure how even the match is...  Plus, thanks to his inability to stay away from the ganja, we're without Santonio Holmes this week who's been our return guy and as valuable as Ward out there at Receiver...  That's a HUGE loss over 3 blunts.  ::)

I think the Steelers can still beat up on the Giants, but they've got tons of injuries right now, plus I think Polamalu and Roethlisberger aren't either one 100%.  Parker's doubtful too, but I'm still digging Moore...  We're missing some line guys on both sides of the ball, etc.  Even with the bye we had, we're messed up more than I imagined we'd be at this point.  Kind of a bummer, but hopefully the depth is there to make up for it.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on October 25, 2008, 09:34 AM
Hopefully this is good news for those of us with Hines Ward on our Fantasy team.  lately 50ish yards and no TDs after a brilliant start the season.   :P
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on October 25, 2008, 09:00 PM
Well in the JD league, that would be me.  And he had 60 and a TD just last week.   8)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on October 26, 2008, 08:54 PM
Wow!  What a great game between the Giants and the Steelers today!  Always great to see the two best defensive teams duke it out on the field.  And finally DirecTv has our local stations in HD so I had an awesome view of it all...especially when the Steelers' long snap guy walked off the field and his knee bent in a way that no knee should bend!  I hope he's going to be ok, but I think he will be out for a while.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on October 26, 2008, 09:16 PM
Well in the JD league, that would be me.  And he had 60 and a TD just last week.   8)

Kudos to you.  How did he do this week?   ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on October 26, 2008, 09:32 PM
Well he wasn't as awesome as Randy Moss, but it's rare for a player to be awesome every week.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Diddly on November 2, 2008, 04:49 PM
Tennessee remains undefeated in OT. Meanwhile the Cowboys continue to suck. I know what they'll be looking for in the draft.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on November 2, 2008, 06:44 PM
I'm hoping for a head coach.....
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on November 4, 2008, 01:30 AM
I think the Steelers are about to field a team made up of all guys that were moving furniture and/or selling insurance if the injuries keep up...  Leftwich is about all we're gonna have left.   :'(
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on November 9, 2008, 11:57 PM
Holy Crap!  What a great Sunday night game between the Eagles and the Giants.  Since the Giants have never even gone to the playoffs the season after they win the Superbowl, I'm shocked and amazed at how well they are playing.

Keep it up G-MEN!   ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on November 10, 2008, 09:44 AM
The Jets played an awesome game on Sunday. They pretty much did everything well and now the Thursday night game is so much more exciting. Its going to be very tough but it shoul dbe interesting. I am thinking about going up to Foxboro for the game.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on November 10, 2008, 04:54 PM
A great Non-Loss by the Cowboys this weekend.

I wonder if Vegas even took bets that Tennessee would be 9-0.....without Vince Young.....

I want to foward the Stats of the Patriots and Titan's to Cowboys' management with the title "See what happens when you have a back up QB..."
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on November 10, 2008, 05:38 PM
You can send the Bucs stats too - 3-0 this year with Brian Griese.   :D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Diddly on November 11, 2008, 02:38 AM
Good job running up the middle, San Francisco!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 12, 2008, 10:54 AM
You can send the Bucs stats too - 3-0 this year with Brian Griese.   :D

Cripes, you could even add the Vikings to that list.   :P
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on November 14, 2008, 01:06 PM
What an insane game last night. Jets are the better team with all the injuries the Pats have but the Jets were totally out coached in the second half. Mangini had some terrible calls starting with 2 min left in the first half.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on November 14, 2008, 01:37 PM
Cassel played like Brady last night.  400 yard, 3 TD's, and 60 yards rushing.  No turnovers.

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on November 17, 2008, 02:40 PM
Some great games again yesterday:

Giants: 9-1...team to beat in the NFC?  I'm a huge Giants fan so I may be a bit biased, but historically they don't even make the playoffs after winning the Superbowl so I'm stoked they are doing so well!

Denver vs Atlanta -- good game for the Broncos...not perfect but the San Diego loss puts them well up in the AFC West.  I'll be a bit surprised if they do not make the playoffs.

Steelers vs Chargers -- WTF?  Definitely an exciting game.

Cowboys vs Redskins -- good game and Romo did well after being gone the past few weeks.  It will be interesting on how much his broken pinky is a factor.  I'm glad they won because it widens the Giants' lead in the NFC East. 


Also, is it me or is no one making that big a deal that the Titans are 10-0?  I'm glad because I've always liked Kerry Collins and to see a team he's on succeed is pretty cool.  I just remember last year when the Pats were what everyone's talking about.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on November 17, 2008, 05:27 PM
Quote
Steelers vs Chargers -- WTF?  Definitely an exciting game.

First time that score ever happened in the NFL.  Weird stat there, eh?

I loved them showing SD fans all bundled up in Heinz Field...

Pussies.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on November 17, 2008, 09:25 PM
Giants: 9-1...team to beat in the NFC?  I'm a huge Giants fan so I may be a bit biased, but historically they don't even make the playoffs after winning the Superbowl so I'm stoked they are doing so well!

No question about it, the Giants are the team to beat.  I think they're better than the Titans too.

Denver vs Atlanta -- good game for the Broncos...not perfect but the San Diego loss puts them well up in the AFC West.  I'll be a bit surprised if they do not make the playoffs.

Atlanta is about due to crash down to earth.  They're better than last year, but they're no playoff team.


Also, is it me or is no one making that big a deal that the Titans are 10-0?  I'm glad because I've always liked Kerry Collins and to see a team he's on succeed is pretty cool.  I just remember last year when the Pats were what everyone's talking about.

I hope they lose a few and soon.  I'm getting beyond sick of watching Javon Kearse parade that stupid chain necklace around every week.

 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 17, 2008, 11:13 PM
Some great games again yesterday:

Giants: 9-1...team to beat in the NFC?  I'm a huge Giants fan so I may be a bit biased, but historically they don't even make the playoffs after winning the Superbowl so I'm stoked they are doing so well!

Denver vs Atlanta -- good game for the Broncos...not perfect but the San Diego loss puts them well up in the AFC West.  I'll be a bit surprised if they do not make the playoffs.

Steelers vs Chargers -- WTF?  Definitely an exciting game.

Cowboys vs Redskins -- good game and Romo did well after being gone the past few weeks.  It will be interesting on how much his broken pinky is a factor.  I'm glad they won because it widens the Giants' lead in the NFC East. 


Also, is it me or is no one making that big a deal that the Titans are 10-0?  I'm glad because I've always liked Kerry Collins and to see a team he's on succeed is pretty cool.  I just remember last year when the Pats were what everyone's talking about.

You missed the best game from Sunday: Packers 37 - 3 over the Bears after Chicago had won 5 of the last 6.  Pretty nice day for the Green and Gold faithful.  ;D

What do people think about the No Touchdown - Touchdown! - Wait, not a Touchdown call at the end of the Steelers game?  I heard ont he radio today that the NFL now admits it should have been a TD, but they won't score it that way.  Apparently that call decided over $100 million in legal sports bets, since that was the difference between the Steelers making or not making the spread.  I lost a fantasy game because of it, but oh well.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on November 18, 2008, 12:25 AM
But isn't the play blown dead the second an illegal forward pass is thrown?  If so, no touchdown.  I had not heard anything more about it...still one hell of a crazy game.

The Bears/Packers game was good too...still wondering if the Packers will make it to the playoffs or not.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on November 18, 2008, 09:22 AM
after Chicago had won 5 of the last 6. 

Four of their last six before the GB game.  They lost to Atlanta and Tennessee.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on November 18, 2008, 09:27 AM

The Bears/Packers game was good too...still wondering if the Packers will make it to the playoffs or not.

In that division, I'd put my money on the Packers. 

On a different note, I think the Titans have a very good chance of running the table this year with regards to going undefeated. 

Wouldn't it be bizarre if the Giants ruined another team's bid for a perfect season; two years in a row?

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on November 18, 2008, 04:26 PM
It would be pretty awesome.  The only shame would be that Kerry Collins would again be denied a ring (he took the Giants to the Superbowl only to lose to the Ravens).  I'd feel much worse for the Titans than I did for the Pats....they were all such dicks last year.

Honestly, I'm glad they lost that game to the Browns....trying to go for a perfect season is too much pressure.  The only prize should be winning the Superbowl.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on November 18, 2008, 04:47 PM
But isn't the play blown dead the second an illegal forward pass is thrown?  If so, no touchdown.  I had not heard anything more about it...still one hell of a crazy game.

The Bears/Packers game was good too...still wondering if the Packers will make it to the playoffs or not.

Actually there was no forward pass at all, that's what the debate was about.  The refs claimed there was forward movement on the ball but it went to the side and back a little actually, so Polamalu's running it in should've been "official" on the boards.

I'm no gambler and the Steelers still won (and it was a pretty poorly officiated game overall) so I don't really care that it flubbed up some guy's bets.  Basically you have to take into account poor officiating when you're gonna gamble I figure.  I mean there was some calls that I really think prevented the Steelers from putting more points on the board earlier, so the one at the end is just another "oops, we goofed" from the zebras.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on November 18, 2008, 07:21 PM
I didn't see any of the replays, but did not really see a forward pass originally.  Meh, the outcome of the game was the same, it's not like it was a go-ahead touchdown.

Just a crazy end to a crazy game.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 19, 2008, 08:00 AM
after Chicago had won 5 of the last 6.

Four of their last six before the GB game.  They lost to Atlanta and Tennessee.

No dude, 5 of the last 6 against the Pack.   ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on November 19, 2008, 09:19 AM
You should have been more specific.

 ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 19, 2008, 05:32 PM
You should have been more specific.

 ;)

What part of this has you confused?   ???

You missed the best game from Sunday: Packers 37 - 3 over the Bears after Chicago had won 5 of the last 6.  Pretty nice day for the Green and Gold faithful.  ;D

Maybe you should try out for a job refereeing in the NFL.   ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Ryan on November 19, 2008, 06:35 PM
You missed the best game from Sunday: Packers 37 - 3 over the Bears after Chicago had won 5 of the last 6.  Pretty nice day for the Green and Gold faithful.  ;D

Maybe you should try out for a job refereeing in the NFL.   ;D

Did you just refer to yourself in the second person while suggesting you could be an NFL ref?
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 19, 2008, 10:07 PM
You missed the best game from Sunday: Packers 37 - 3 over the Bears after Chicago had won 5 of the last 6.  Pretty nice day for the Green and Gold faithful.  ;D

Maybe you should try out for a job refereeing in the NFL.   ;D

Did you just refer to yourself in the second person while suggesting you could be an NFL ref?

I believe I was replying to Ruiner if you follow the thread before it. 

You weren't kiddiing when you said you do the weird stuff!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Ryan on November 19, 2008, 10:42 PM
I totally didn't read the top half of your post... Other than a 4 hour nap yesterday I haven't slept since Sunday night, my brain isn't quite firing on all synapses at the moment...
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on November 20, 2008, 09:17 AM
You should have been more specific.

 ;)

What part of this has you confused?   ???

You missed the best game from Sunday: Packers 37 - 3 over the Bears after Chicago had won 5 of the last 6.  Pretty nice day for the Green and Gold faithful.  ;D

Maybe you should try out for a job refereeing in the NFL.   ;D

Your statement could be read both ways.  There in lies the confusion.  Are you referring to the Bears last six games of the year or their last six games against the Pack?  Obviously we know now but originally, it was unclear.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on November 24, 2008, 12:34 PM
The Jets looked awesome yesterday and finally played that complete game that mangini is talking about.  ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 24, 2008, 01:05 PM
I thought the vikings looked surprisingly good for a change yesterday.  I guess it helps to start out 14-0 shortly into the game.  Did anyone hear why Peterson didn't start the first or second series?  He didn't seem injured and ended up with a strong game - just seemed odd that they would keep out their best player through much of the first quarter for no reason.  I'm personally a firm believer in letting guys go out and get a feel for the game versus the committee approach many teams have started utilizing. 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on November 24, 2008, 01:12 PM
He was late to a team meeting.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 24, 2008, 01:14 PM
He was late to a team meeting.

Really?  Weren't Chad Johnson and Plaxico Burress suspended for one game each for being late to meetings?  I guess the rules are different if it's your best guy...  ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on November 24, 2008, 01:16 PM
Yeah, it's gotta be tough to bench Petersen for a whole game when there's a three way tie in the division.

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on November 24, 2008, 02:07 PM
Burress blew off practice all together I thought.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 24, 2008, 04:59 PM
Burress blew off practice all together I thought.

Apparently, he missed a workout due to a family emergency and didn't call in to say he wouldn't be there. (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3606150)

Calling to say I wouldn't be at practice might not be at the top of my to do list depending on the type of "emergency," but that's just me.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on November 24, 2008, 05:09 PM
Hmmm, pretty excuseless to me...  Even a death in the family means you call off work, alert your coach, whatever, even for normal people who have a regular 9 to 5 I'd think.  When you're a multi-million dollar contracted NFL wide receiver I think you owe your team and bosses a phone call in this day and age of technology like cell phones and stuff, where it's pretty much possible to get ahold of you regardless of where you are and what you're doing.  I guess that's just the standard I hold myself to so I figure he should do the same, I dunno.

At the time though, I do recall hearing that the organization did NOT agree that the emergency warranted not calling in, and that's why he was suspended.  Burress basically said he didn't care at the time...  I don't blame him, he's an adult and can do as he pleases, but I also don't blame the team for suspending him either.  We suspend kids who don't show up to practice, and ultimately that's their parent's fault, but we do it out of more of fairness to the other kids who do come to practice.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on November 24, 2008, 05:19 PM
IIRC, he had to take his kid to school.  That was the family emergency.

Edit: http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/11012572
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on November 24, 2008, 05:37 PM
Yeah I know it was (supposedly) something dumb that he said was unimportant but which the team was public in saying they did NOT say it was important enough to miss work over.  And again, pick up your cell phone and call, ya know?  I mean I could see missing work for any myriad of emergencies, and ya just need to use that amazing piece of technology that gives you basically no excuse not to get ahold of someone. ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 24, 2008, 10:48 PM
Yeah I know it was (supposedly) something dumb that he said was unimportant but which the team was public in saying they did NOT say it was important enough to miss work over.  And again, pick up your cell phone and call, ya know?  I mean I could see missing work for any myriad of emergencies, and ya just need to use that amazing piece of technology that gives you basically no excuse not to get ahold of someone. ;D

Well, it's easy to sit here and say that, but we still don't know the situation.  Maybe he was on his way to practice and found out his kid was running late and got into a fight with his wife, then drove in all upset about that and got stuck in traffic and just said to he11 with practice.  Maybe he forgot his cell when he stormed out or couldn't get reception.  Heck, maybe he had a phone, but didn't have the right number to call.  Or maybe he's just full of himself and couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone.

The point is, I think it's silly to keep him out of a game because he missed practice.  If he didn't make a game, then that's a big problem, but guys miss practice for soreness or injury all the time.  I work in an office, which is obviously very different, and most people would call in if something was up, even something serious.  However, I've seen people not show up because of traffic or weather or kids or whatever and not call in or change their out of office or their voicemail.  It would be ridiculous to see any of these people punished for something like this unless they missed some major deadline or presentation, which I would liken more to a game than a practice.

Besides, not having a good player play punishes the rest of the team as much, if not more than the player.  If you want to punish these guys, slap a big fat fine on them for missing practice - something like 5% of their annual pay or something substantial they will notice.  Just my two cents.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2008, 10:51 PM
Besides, not having a good player play punishes the rest of the team as much, if not more than the player. 

It's much worse for the team to teach them the lesson that they can miss practice without consequence, or that a certain player can avoid consequences and others can't.

If you punished players through massive fines you'd have a lot of angry players and a lot of complaints from the NFLPA.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on November 24, 2008, 10:55 PM
Burress has been chronically fined for crap like that by the Giants for like 3 years, it was probably a case his "last chance" than anything

Peterson was late to meeting, probably his first time...big difference
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on November 24, 2008, 11:01 PM
Indeed - this Peterson thing does not look like a double standard, it looks like a slap on the wrist for a guy who doesn't have any history of causing trouble.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 24, 2008, 11:51 PM
Burress has been chronically fined for crap like that by the Giants for like 3 years, it was probably a case his "last chance" than anything

Peterson was late to meeting, probably his first time...big difference

Hey Scott, when are you coming up for another meeting?  I want my free beer.   ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on November 25, 2008, 10:24 AM
Quote
The point is, I think it's silly to keep him out of a game because he missed practice.

Like I said, we suspend 11 year olds for not getting to practice...  Why should a 20 something year old, who's been in the football program of a major college, an NFL team, and I'm wagering a pretty strict high school, be allowed to "not call in".  And again, I reiterate that anyone with any sense these days can GET ahold of anybody, anytime they want.  I'm sure Burress isn't "handling life" all on his lonesome...  I imagine his family has a nanny or at the least a babysitter of some kind.  I'm sure he has all the latest technology....

I gotta be honest, I don't care what the situation is, I think it's juvenile and irresponsible of someone NOT to contact their work to let them know they're not coming in today.  I'm not saying you have to call them the second you find out you have a problem even, but you do need to call, and anything short of that should be punishable.  I think that applies 10 fold to a professional athlete though who is paid multi-millions a year.  When you're paid like that you're less your own person really.

And from a coaching standpoint, I 100% believe practice is every bit as important as gameday.  That's just how football is from the youngest levels to the professional levels.  Roethlisberger got chewed out about that recently and was basically told you either practice or you aren't playing Sunday, end of story.  Practice sets up game day in football, and missing it means you're not on the same page as all the other guys who made the sacrifice(s) to be there.

To me, Burress was being a prick, and he deserved fined AND suspended in my view.  If it's a habitual thing though, it's even worse.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on November 25, 2008, 10:40 AM
If it's a habitual thing though, it's even worse.

That is totally what it is...

Giants' Burressm fined 40-50 times before suspension (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8616200/Giants'-Burress-fined-40-50-times-before-suspension)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on November 27, 2008, 04:17 PM
I'm a fan of Burress but he deserved the one game suspension for not calling in and the 1st quarter benching for not going to treatment when he was supposed to.  He has to follow the same rules as the rest of the team, and the rest of the team doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

Besides, the game he was completely out of I think was the game against the Seahawks where they won 44-6.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 28, 2008, 01:34 PM
I'm a fan of Burress but he deserved the one game suspension for not calling in and the 1st quarter benching for not going to treatment when he was supposed to.  He has to follow the same rules as the rest of the team, and the rest of the team doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

I'm not a big fan of Burress after reading all of the crap he's given the team and total lack of respect for his teammates and coaches.  I don't think this one event is deserving of a benching (and think most coaching staffs would agree) - it's the continued disrespect and lack of any other options that led to this.  I didn't see any vote from his teammates whether they care or not, so not sure where your comment comes from?   ???

Besides, the game he was completely out of I think was the game against the Seahawks where they won 44-6.
[/quote] 

Well, that was the point of this whole discussion.  Do players who mean more to their team (i.e. Adrian Peterson) get softer treatment than players who the team can get by without.  If the Giants knew their chances of winning with Burress off the field were signfiicantly reduced, would they have held him out of the whole game?  If so, and they lost the game, would that be fair to his teammates?
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on November 28, 2008, 03:02 PM
I would say yes...just because someone is a big playmaker does not mean they get to skirt the rules.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on November 28, 2008, 05:13 PM
It depends on the coaching staff's view since it's their call...  As I said, you missed you didn't play on the teams I've coached but I know other teams felt differently about their "stars" and would've played them.  We sat our running back because he didn't show up till Thursday for practice and expected to start...  Life's a bitch.  He told us he was on vacation, so did his dad, but they let us know the THursday he got back...  He sat, we lost...  He probably would've made a difference, but the kid that started appreciated the start for coming in all week.

At the pro's there's obviosly money involved, etc., but ultimately a lot of it has to do with the way the coach feels a team should be treated, and individuals.  Cowher would've probably benched him...  I like to think Tomlin would've as well since witnessing the Holmes incident.  I dunno though...  One could argue they're adults and "understand" the situation, but when you're a lineman or linebacker coming in day-in-day-out working, and a guy like Burress just blows **** off and gets a start, you're probably gonna be annoyed.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on November 29, 2008, 12:08 AM
Good points Jesse, and I think Burress has been brought down a peg or two.  Proof that the offense can score without him is humbling to say the least.

If I were the coach of a team, I would expect my star players to be leaders and that would mean following all the rules.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 29, 2008, 11:38 AM
Good points Jesse, and I think Burress has been brought down a peg or two.  Proof that the offense can score without him is humbling to say the least.

If I wee the coach of a team, I would expect my star players to be leaders and that would mean following all the rules.

Dude, if you wee the coach of a team, you don't need to tell us all about it.   ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on November 29, 2008, 12:14 PM
Adding fuel to the fire - Burress accidentally shot himself in the leg last night.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3733021

And the dumbass of the year award goes to...
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on November 29, 2008, 12:58 PM
This guy should be playing for the Raiders or the Bengals.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on November 29, 2008, 06:45 PM
What a dumbass.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 29, 2008, 11:02 PM
This guy should be playing for the Raiders or the Bengals.


Or maybe not playing at all.  I bet that gunshot wound made his hamstring injury much improved.   ::)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on November 30, 2008, 12:18 AM
Not defending ol Plaxico at all...he's a model citizen when compared to Pac-Man Jones....and they're letting that a-hole play again!   ::)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on November 30, 2008, 09:19 AM
If the league uses the same standard it did with Pac-Man (who I agree does not need to be in the league or walking about among us law abiding citizens) then Burress will be watching more football than playing next season.  And don't get me started on Ray Lewis.

Can't wait for the NY Giant spin doctor fans to start the excuse train IF they start losing though...even though they were the loudest to tell Cowboy fans to suck it up with the injury problems.

I assume NY will play better without him though.  In fact counting on it today.

What Burress really needs to concern himself with the legal side of this, taking a gun into a nightclub is usually illegal (even here in Texas).
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on November 30, 2008, 12:56 PM
If the league uses the same standard it did with Pac-Man (who I agree does not need to be in the league or walking about among us law abiding citizens) then Burress will be watching more football than playing next season.  And don't get me started on Ray Lewis.

Can't wait for the NY Giant spin doctor fans to start the excuse train IF they start losing though...even though they were the loudest to tell Cowboy fans to suck it up with the injury problems.

I assume NY will play better without him though.  In fact counting on it today.

What Burress really needs to concern himself with the legal side of this, taking a gun into a nightclub is usually illegal (even here in Texas).

You have both guns AND nightclubs in Texas? 

 ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on November 30, 2008, 08:56 PM
I'm probably the biggest Giants fan in here and I won't make any excuses for Plaxico.  I would advise him to be smart and listen to his lawyers.

My big concern is Antonio Pierce.  He was out with him and did all he could to help by getting him to the hospital and trying to stop the bleeding.  He was also very cooperative with the police over the weekend.  There was talk today that he could also be charged, but I hope some dick prosecutor does not do that....Pierce is a stand up guy who was trying to do the right thing IMO.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on November 30, 2008, 09:42 PM
99 yard TD to Berrian!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on December 1, 2008, 01:28 AM
Why was Burress not allowed to have a gun, short of not owning a license to carry one?  Does he have a felony or something on him in the past that prevents him from getting a license or did he simply not obtain one to carry a concealed weapon?  I'm curious about that whole thing, just to know if he didn't get a license because he's lazy or because he legally couldn't own a firearm or something.

The whole story is lame, and I'd be immensely pissed that he was on my team taking up salara cap cash if he's going to do dickhead stuff like this.  I'm a firm believer in harsh discipline for pro athletes.  I think they should always be held to higher standards by their teams and leagues they are in.  And really, why are receivers such doofuses?  There seem to be more at that position than any other in the league.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on December 1, 2008, 01:37 AM
He has a permit for the weapon, but not a permit in NY.  NY (NYC particularly) have very strict gun laws...he could be facing jail time.

I don't think the Giants will just cut him and leave it at that.  They care about the players there and will do everything they can to help him.  The Mara family is good about stuff like that.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on December 1, 2008, 12:25 PM
Man that's just dumb ****.  I will never get over these guys, with everything in their professional life being what it is, jeopordizing it for something so pointless.  It annoys me actually because they've got it so good and are seemingly intent on messing it up.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Morgbug on December 1, 2008, 01:21 PM
I think Jesse the reason is that some of these guys are just really stupid.  They've been coddled for a very long time going through because of their exceptional abilities.  I think that just sets them up with the expectation that they can get away with anything. 

I'm reluctant to suggest that all athletes are necessarily stupid, but there are days I think like that.  Thankfully there are a lot of exceptions and those with at least half a brain are in the majority.  As for why it is receivers more often that not, I'm pretty sure that isn't the case.  D guys seem pretty bad too.  Just a couple of exceptional athletes that are also exceptionally stupid. 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on December 1, 2008, 01:26 PM
He has a permit for the weapon, but not a permit in NY.  NY (NYC particularly) have very strict gun laws...he could be facing jail time.

I don't think the Giants will just cut him and leave it at that.  They care about the players there and will do everything they can to help him.  The Mara family is good about stuff like that.

IMO, you won't see Plaxico in a Giants uniform again.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on December 1, 2008, 04:05 PM
The details (whether true or not) are flowing now...was Derrick Ward at the club too?  Does it even matter?

A few interesting tidbits... it is reported that it was a Glock .40 Cal that he was "fumbling" with (the reporter's words not mine).. he is real lucky he didn't hit something vital, I would guess it just grazed him.

I don't see this affecting the Giants too negatively...sure they will get more questions about this than the game Sunday.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on December 2, 2008, 03:10 PM
Listening to Bloomberg talking about Plaxico today left me with the strong impression that Burress is looking at a minimum of 3.5 years in jail.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jayson on December 2, 2008, 05:46 PM
NFL suspends Vikings' Pat and Kevin Williams for four games (http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=530925&catid=2)

Great  ::)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on December 3, 2008, 01:55 AM
He has a permit for the weapon, but not a permit in NY.  NY (NYC particularly) have very strict gun laws...he could be facing jail time.

I don't think the Giants will just cut him and leave it at that.  They care about the players there and will do everything they can to help him.  The Mara family is good about stuff like that.

IMO, you won't see Plaxico in a Giants uniform again.

At least not this year.  He's now on Non-football related Injured reserve and will not play the rest of this season.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on December 3, 2008, 09:16 AM
NFL suspends Vikings' Pat and Kevin Williams for four games (http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=530925&catid=2)

Great  ::)


A week too late.  Bears suck.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on December 3, 2008, 09:54 AM
At least not this year.  He's now on Non-football related Injured reserve and will not play the rest of this season.

If Burress is ever going to play in the NFL again, he'd better pray for a plea bargain, and even then he's likely to be in jail for a decent amount of time.  I doubt he's playing next year either.

Link (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/12/01/2008-12-01_mayor_bloomberg_fuming_over_plaxico_shoo-3.html)

Quote
New York law requires a minimum of 31/2 years in prison for a conviction of second-degree criminal possession of a weapon, the charge Burress faces.

"I don't think that anybody should be exempt from that," Bloomberg said. "It would be an outrage if we don't prosecute to the fullest extent of the law."

Not prosecuting celebrities would make "a sham, a mockery of the law," the mayor asserted.
The mandatory sentencing would not necessarily apply if Burress is offered a plea bargain.

Defense lawyers said prosecutors are loath to cut a deal. "The DAs . . . have been very hard-nosed on this," said veteran criminal defense lawyer Martin Geduldig. "They expect jail time."
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on December 3, 2008, 05:41 PM
I'm sure that they'll plead it down to something where he does no time.  I'm just glad that the Giants have the best TEAM going right now and can win without him.

All the other receivers have stepped up and the offense looks great.  I never thought that the Giants would win two Superbowls in a row (Historically, they never make the playoffs after winning the Superbowl), but this year it just might happen!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on December 3, 2008, 11:07 PM
I'm sure that they'll plead it down to something where he does no time. 

I'm not so sure about that.  Did you hear the quotes from the Mayor?  He basically said there is a mandatory jail sentence for this crime and asked what we would be teaching our kids if we dished out something less than this for someone just because he's famous.  When the mayor singles you out as someone to make an example of I think you're going to do jail time, but we'll see.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on December 4, 2008, 01:38 AM
I'm sure that they'll plead it down to something where he does no time.  I'm just glad that the Giants have the best TEAM going right now and can win without him.


Like I've been saying and has just been echoed, Bloomberg is on the war path over this.

Plax is going to jail - I'm as sure of this as Dressel was of a McCain victory.   :-X
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Nicklab on December 4, 2008, 02:20 AM
All the other receivers have stepped up and the offense looks great.  I never thought that the Giants would win two Superbowls in a row (Historically, they never make the playoffs after winning the Superbowl), but this year it just might happen!

Why do you have to go saying something stupid like that and possibly jinx it all?  The fact that the Giants are doing well is why I keep mum in this thread.  I'm happy that the Giants are putting most of the competition away in the first half of most of the games.  But that Cleveland loss was just a disgrace.

There's no excuse for Plax.  And if teammates were involved in covering things up?  That's even worse.  Teammates are supposed to stick together, but Antonio Pierce should've been trying to police Plax and not cover up for him.  There's also word that Ahmad Bradshaw might be facing charges for being involved in the coverup since he's on parole.  Things get even stickier since there's a rumor circulating in the NY media that teammate Steve Smith might have been held up at gunpoint last week, and that could be why Burress was carrying a gun.  It's still no excuse since NY City has some of the strictest gun laws in the country and you have to have some serious juice in order to get any kind of concealed carry permit for a handgun.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on December 4, 2008, 07:38 PM
I'm happy that the Giants are putting most of the competition away in the first half of most of the games.  But that Cleveland loss was just a disgrace.


I think that Cleveland loss was the best thing that ever happened to them.  They were pretty cocky after the big win over Seattle the week before (they always have a tough time in Seattle and also after the bye week).  They've played a tough schedule and have come out well.  I just hope they can keep it up....it's been an exciting year to be a Giants fan!   :D

Any more news on that Minnesota judge that put an injunction against the NFL from suspending those Vikings players?  I haven't checked the news today.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Morgbug on December 4, 2008, 11:16 PM
Seattle is part of a tough schedule? ???
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on December 4, 2008, 11:55 PM
Seattle is part of a tough schedule? ???

Sure, for the Auburn Tigers.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Nicklab on December 6, 2008, 02:02 AM
Seattle is part of a tough schedule? ???

If you play in the NFC West, yes. 

I think the win over Pittsburgh was much more impressive.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on December 6, 2008, 06:38 PM
Seattle is part of a tough schedule? ???

I think that Cleveland loss was the best thing that ever happened to them.  They were pretty cocky after the big win over Seattle the week before (they always have a tough time in Seattle and also after the bye week).  They've played a tough schedule and have come out well.  I just hope they can keep it up....it's been an exciting year to be a Giants fan!   :D

Read the whole sentence y'all.  The Giants seem to always have trouble when they go to Seattle and they also tend to lose after the bye week.  That game this year allowed the Giants to get two annoying monkeys off their back.   :D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Nicklab on December 7, 2008, 05:06 PM
You had to run your mouth about the Giants, and today they blew it!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on December 7, 2008, 05:09 PM
Don't look now but the winner of the MNF game tomorrow night will only be one back of the Giants for home field.   :)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on December 7, 2008, 07:01 PM
Well reality set back in and the true feelings of the Jet fan are in full force. After these last 2 weeks i can't even imagine how the Jets get into the playoffs.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on December 7, 2008, 07:20 PM
Sucks to see the Vikings advance after such an awulf showing.  I hope the Bears can catch them and take the division at this point.   :P
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on December 7, 2008, 07:24 PM
You had to run your mouth about the Giants, and today they blew it!
Oddly, I'm kinda glad they lost today.  Like the Monday night loss to Cleveland, this will humble them a little bit and they'll pull it back together.

As much as I want them to beat the Eagles, I'd rather they lose now than in the playoffs or Superbowl.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on December 7, 2008, 09:57 PM
Oddly, I'm kinda glad they lost today.  Like the Monday night loss to Cleveland, this will humble them a little bit and they'll pull it back together.

There are no good losses when you're trying to lock up home field and there are 4 games left in the season.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on December 7, 2008, 10:16 PM
Sucks to see the Vikings advance after such an awulf showing.  I hope the Bears can catch them and take the division at this point.   :P
what was so awful with that?  The Vikes pretty much dominated the 2nd half and are looking like a surefire playoff team.  Stop the run and run the ball  = playoff success
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on December 7, 2008, 11:05 PM
Sucks to see the Vikings advance after such an awulf showing.  I hope the Bears can catch them and take the division at this point.   :P
what was so awful with that?  The Vikes pretty much dominated the 2nd half and are looking like a surefire playoff team.  Stop the run and run the ball  = playoff success

Yeah, "dominating" with nothing but the run on a winless team in what may be the worst division in the NFL.  A 20-16 victory over the hapless Lions is not very convincing IMO.  If the Refs hadn't arbitrarily reversed that Calvin Johnson catch in the 4th quarter, the vikes would have been fighting for a tie at best and could easily have been the first team to lose to the silver and baby blue.  I give them no chance to advance in the playoffs, especially if the Williams Wall is on suspension.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on December 8, 2008, 12:13 AM
At least they have a chance at the playoffs unlike Favre & the Packers...oh wait...they got rid of him.  Weren't they like 14-2 last year???
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on December 8, 2008, 09:55 AM
Sucks to see the Vikings advance after such an awulf showing.  I hope the Bears can catch them and take the division at this point.   :P
what was so awful with that?  The Vikes pretty much dominated the 2nd half and are looking like a surefire playoff team.  Stop the run and run the ball  = playoff success

You're missing part of your equation.

What's the word on Ferotte and Allen?

Because that team is still going no where with Jackson at QB - even if he was able to lead a drive to beat the stellar Lions.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on December 8, 2008, 10:01 AM
Sucks to see the Vikings advance after such an awulf showing.  I hope the Bears can catch them and take the division at this point.   :P
what was so awful with that?  The Vikes pretty much dominated the 2nd half and are looking like a surefire playoff team.  Stop the run and run the ball  = playoff success

You're missing part of your equation.

What's the word on Ferotte and Allen?

Because that team is still going no where with Jackson at QB - even if he was able to lead a drive to beat the stellar Lions.
No word yet...and I think Gus is totally overrated.  While Jackson sucked balls early in the year, I think he would have done just as good this year as Gus would have
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on December 8, 2008, 11:10 AM
At least they have a chance at the playoffs unlike Favre & the Packers...oh wait...they got rid of him.  Weren't they like 14-2 last year???

I would equate no chance with no chance if you want to compare Packers and Vikings this year.  The purple will just whip their ten remaining fans into a heated fervor for nothing, just like they always do.  Players from both teams will be sitting out the playoffs talking about their past superbowl victories...oh wait, I guess just the Packers will be doing that.

It's pretty funny to hear squabble about whether your chances are better with Jackson or Fur-Rot.  We may have traded Favre, but I'd take A-Rod over either of those guys every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

If you truly have any faith in your team, why don't you go double or nothing with me on them even reaching the SuperBowl?  I'm from Wisconsin, so I won't have any trouble downing a second brew if you ever get back up to the cities.   ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on December 8, 2008, 12:29 PM
Go Steelers!  Well, go Steelers D, since they won the game last night and our offense did diddly squat...  Hell even Reed missed a field goal, but we still love the freak.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Morgbug on December 8, 2008, 01:04 PM
Sucks to see the Vikings advance after such an awulf showing.  I hope the Bears can catch them and take the division at this point.   :P
what was so awful with that?  The Vikes pretty much dominated the 2nd half and are looking like a surefire playoff team.  Stop the run and run the ball  = playoff success

You're missing part of your equation.

What's the word on Ferotte and Allen?

Because that team is still going no where with Jackson at QB - even if he was able to lead a drive to beat the stellar Lions.
No word yet...and I think Gus is totally overrated.  While Jackson sucked balls early in the year, I think he would have done just as good this year as Gus would have

Jackson wasn't solely to blame though.  The Colts game I was at there were 3-4 dropped balls that should easily have been caught.  Berrian wasn't playing (IIRC) so he didn't have a full complement of receivers either. 

But yeah, I'd take Rodgers over either of them.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on December 8, 2008, 02:41 PM
There are no good losses when you're trying to lock up home field and there are 4 games left in the season.

I'm not entirely sure it's in the best interest of the Giants to have homefield throughout.  Look at their road record last year!   :D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on December 11, 2008, 12:20 AM
Some ****** news for Matt Cassel and the Patriots. (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80d33bdd&template=without-video&confirm=true)

My condolences to the Cassel family, but you have to wonder what this will do to the AFC East with the three way tie.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Ryan on December 11, 2008, 09:19 PM
Really? Who honestly didnt see this coming... (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3763209)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on December 11, 2008, 09:54 PM
Owens was on the sidelines Sunday night bitching up a storm after every failed offensive series the Cowboys ran...  He didn't speak to other players, he went right to the o-coordinator.  It was childish, and disgusting to watch.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on December 11, 2008, 09:56 PM
The most shocking thing in that article is that Romo's best friend on the team is Bobby Carpenter....that Oxygen thief is taking up a roster spot....

The only thing to be amazed by is that it took this long... as STUPID as receivers have been acting all across the league, I wouldn't mind seeing the forward pass going back to illegal. Give me 60 minutes of the Wishbone or Option....

I will admit that I loves me some TO when he scores a touchdown, but I think I'd be just as happy if it was Roy Williams, Patrick Crayton or Danny Amendola..
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on December 15, 2008, 09:25 PM
Wow....last night sure was disappointing.  I don't think the Giants like to do anything the easy way.   ::)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Ryan on December 15, 2008, 10:02 PM
I think the Ravens kind of got screwed on that TD call at the end of the game. It sure didn't look like Washington (or Homes, I forgot who it was) got in the endzone with possesion.

I'm looking forward to the Panthers grabbing that #1 seed in NY next week. :)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on December 15, 2008, 10:34 PM
Obviously I disagree...  Holmes caught hte ball, he had both feet in the endzone, and he tucked the ball while putting the free arm then down to brace his fall, giving him control.  When he tucked the ball, the goal line camera showed (to me) that the ball was on the line which is breaking the plain...  It was super close, but I believe it was the right call ultimately.  It's one of those things that I think is going to be argued forever though.

Hey, from what I hear Reed got called for Unsportsmanlike after our punter got spit in the face by a Ravens player, and that call went against us when Reed was just tyring to separate the two.  Our punter is 100% pissed today and I didn't even know the guy could speak. :)  Sometimes you get a call, sometimes you don't.  I really feel though that it was a touchdown, but that's me.  The only thing that was close was the ball crossing the plain, and all it has to do is touch it at all, and it did, just like Bettis did the year we won the Super Bowl actually.  That was a big stink too.  :-\
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Ryan on December 15, 2008, 11:11 PM
Eh, fact is there wasn't indisputable evidence to overturn the call on the field (no TD) so the call never should have been overturned. I don't think the ball ever broke the plane when Holmes had possesion and there wasn't conclusive video evidence showing that it did. In a game that is that close, the right call would have been not overturning the call on the field and bringing up 4th down. Then let the game play out from there. Ultimately the call wasn't the reason for the Steelers win/Ravens loss. It was just one play, they did play 60 minutes of football, not just that one play.

Speaking of upset punters didn't a Raven punter a few years back get into a fight on the field?
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on December 15, 2008, 11:23 PM

I'm looking forward to the Panthers grabbing that #1 seed in NY next week. :)
And then the Vikings grabbing the #2 seed the week after that! :)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on December 15, 2008, 11:40 PM
They're saying today (and I honestly don't know this to be a fact, just repeating what I heard locally) that the NFL ruled it as the "right call" on the field because they watched the video and it's better than you see on TV, and that they saw the ball break the plain...  I honestly don't know if that's true or not, just what I guess the NFL is saying today about it.

We had a weird angle that others didn't have actually, as it was shot by the local NBC affiliate on the field, and it pretty clearly shows the ball break the plain, but that wasn't useable by the officials...  Supposedly though like I said, the NFL claims they had essentially the same shot in HD from another camera and that's what the officials used to make that call.  I dunno.  I tend to believe the NFL will eat a mistake on Monday without shame so I'm not feeling bad about the win at all today.

What they were saying tonight on the one local sports talk show after the 10 o'clock news, was that there's no clear definition that the ball has to break the plain on a pass play, and that's why the official didn't say that at the time during the game.  Basically what I guess they mean is that if you're running it in, by definition, it must break the plain to be a TD, but if it's a pass play the ball is perhaps less a factor than the player being in the endzone and having both feet down and control of the ball before he's down?  I dunno...  Like if they caught it even though their body's out of bounds, but their feet are in the endzone and they have control of the ball even though it's clearly outside the lines of the endzone (if that makes sense).  I don't know if that's the way the rule is interpreted or not though, and really nobody else seems to know that either, and only the NFL can clarify that rule. 

I almost expect this to make a rule change for next season, actually.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on December 16, 2008, 02:50 AM
I think it was a bad call to overturn the ruling on the field with the evidence shown.  If cirumstances were different and the call on the field had been touchdown (with the same visual evidence) I would say that the call on the field was correct.

Just going by the "Indesputable evidence" rule when it comes to instant replay.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on December 16, 2008, 12:21 PM
True but what we watch is probably "better" for them too...  I can't speak for everyone but I don't have the latest and greatest TV, the ability to zoom, etc.  They do.  So they're seeing more than we probably are too...  That was, according to the local news last night anyway, what the ruling was based upon (a zoomed HD shot that showed the tip of the ball break the plain when it was tucked).

Now like I said, there was a local camera on the sideline that caught it clear as day so I stand by it being the right call simply because we had that benefit of seeing it was the right call, but the NFL didn't have that angle...  They must have had something similar though because they're standing behind the decision this week.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on December 18, 2008, 10:29 PM
Nice week to have Rhodes and Clark on my fantasy teams!  Indy is going to win a few people fantasy superbowls this week - nice to see them come back to life even if it had to wait 15 weeks into the season.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on December 21, 2008, 07:10 PM
Time to fire Mangini. I hope they lose next week against Miami.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Theo Zissou on December 21, 2008, 07:22 PM

garbage :/ well playoffs start next week for my broncos. Chargers/Bronc's for the division. I can't believe we let it come to this. We had this division. How Frustrating.  >:(
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Mikey D on December 22, 2008, 07:39 AM
Time to fire Mangini. I hope they lose next week against Miami.

And I hope they win.

(And I feel dirty for saying it)

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on December 22, 2008, 12:12 PM
Time to fire Mangini. I hope they lose next week against Miami.

And I hope they win.

(And I feel dirty for saying it)



I don't think any team any where deserves to go winless.  I've been rooting for the Lions for the last month now, for all the good it's done them.   :P
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on December 22, 2008, 12:24 PM
Time to fire Mangini. I hope they lose next week against Miami.

And I hope they win.

(And I feel dirty for saying it)



Yeah a Jets win would greatly help the pats. Good luck...the win basically does the Jets no good.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on December 22, 2008, 12:47 PM
The Dolphins shattered my dreams last year when the won a game. Come on Lions!!!!! Don't do it to me again. I want to see 0 and 16. Lose Lose Lose.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Diddly on December 22, 2008, 02:15 PM
I still wonder how you walk in and win at Lambeau but lose to the F'n Raiders. Good job, Texans!

And don't get me started on Dallas...
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on December 22, 2008, 02:24 PM
Favre is washed up.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Mikey D on December 22, 2008, 03:22 PM
Time to fire Mangini. I hope they lose next week against Miami.

And I hope they win.

(And I feel dirty for saying it)



I don't think any team any where deserves to go winless.  I've been rooting for the Lions for the last month now, for all the good it's done them.   :P

Who the hell was talking about the Lions?

Favre is washed up.

And that scares me.  I'm rooting for a team (albeit to help out my own team) that scored a lousy field goal against Seattle with a QB that's been known to choke it up in the biggest games.  Fantastic.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt Carroll on December 22, 2008, 06:01 PM

garbage :/ well playoffs start next week for my broncos. Chargers/Bronc's for the division. I can't believe we let it come to this. We had this division. How Frustrating.  >:(

No kidding -  I can understand losing at Carolina, but the egg they laid yesterday was hard to swallow.

Plus, since as if the news isn't good enough already, it's going to be pretty much all Tatum Bell next week at RB, as the Denver Post is reporting both Pope and Young are going on IR.  :-[   :'(
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on December 22, 2008, 08:39 PM

And that scares me.  I'm rooting for a team (albeit to help out my own team) that scored a lousy field goal against Seattle with a QB that's been known to choke it up in the biggest games.  Fantastic.

Near the end I thought you were talking about Romo and Cowboys...

I'll accept a Cowboys loss next week if it means Wade, Garrett, Romo, Owens, Barber, Roy Williams(the safety) and 4 or 5 other players will be fired, released etc.

I'd love to see a Vick-less Falcons win it all.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on December 23, 2008, 11:22 AM
I'd love to see a Vick-less Falcons win it all.

I agree!!!!!!!!!

It's amazing how much better football you can play when you don't have a super over rated dog murderer as your quarterback.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on December 23, 2008, 12:22 PM
We need a Bears win and a Vikings loss this weekend. . .
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Morgbug on December 23, 2008, 12:36 PM
We need a Bears win and a Vikings loss this weekend. . .

As a long suffering Vikings fan, I think you have absolutely nothing to fear. 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on December 23, 2008, 12:47 PM
Ditto.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on December 23, 2008, 03:12 PM
We need a Bears win and a Vikings loss this weekend. . .

What a beautiful game last night.  Kudos to the Pack for giving us a good game while still hurting the Vikes playoff chances and getting the Packers a better draft pick next year.  I love it!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: P-Siddy on December 23, 2008, 03:45 PM
Well, the Vikes hurt themselves Sunday. If they don't make it to the playoffs, all they can look at is how they didn't take care of the ball that game. Fumbles, missnaps... Sheesh. Should have been an easy win.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on December 23, 2008, 03:51 PM
We need a Bears win and a Vikings loss this weekend. . .

What a beautiful game last night.  Kudos to the Pack for giving us a good game while still hurting the Vikes playoff chances and getting the Packers a better draft pick next year.  I love it!

Yeah you go ahead and love it. Have a good January and February planning for the draft. Hopefully us Vikings fans will be watching playoff football. Keep us updated on what the Pack's draft board looks like this winter.  ;) (I'm sure the Vikes will choke AGAIN and we'll be doing the same)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on December 23, 2008, 04:04 PM
We need a Bears win and a Vikings loss this weekend. . .

What a beautiful game last night.  Kudos to the Pack for giving us a good game while still hurting the Vikes playoff chances and getting the Packers a better draft pick next year.  I love it!
I've never seen someone call a game beatiful when their team loses...and GB better hope they can draft 7 players with their 1st round pick, that is how bad they are
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on December 23, 2008, 06:08 PM
We need a Bears win and a Vikings loss this weekend. . .

What a beautiful game last night.  Kudos to the Pack for giving us a good game while still hurting the Vikes playoff chances and getting the Packers a better draft pick next year.  I love it!
I've never seen someone call a game beatiful when their team loses...and GB better hope they can draft 7 players with their 1st round pick, that is how bad they are

Hey, why not lose if you've nothing left to play for?  If the Pack wins, it helps the Vikes and hurts the Bears.  If they lose, just the opposite.  At least make it a good close game.  And if the end result helps the draft, so be it. 

As for how bad they are, that's pretty funny coming from a Queens fan.  It's still a young team in a rebuilding year and they have some guys that need to get healthy on defense, but that offense can keep up with anyone.  I'd say the Vikes have a lot more question marks given they're no lock to make the playoffs, the QBs are fighting over who get's to sit out, and now Peterson can't even hold onto the rock. 

Even if they make the playoffs, you know they're going no where.  If you want to go double or nothing on that beer you owe me come playoff time, just let me know.   ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Diddly on December 23, 2008, 10:02 PM

And that scares me.  I'm rooting for a team (albeit to help out my own team) that scored a lousy field goal against Seattle with a QB that's been known to choke it up in the biggest games.  Fantastic.

Near the end I thought you were talking about Romo and Cowboys...

I'll accept a Cowboys loss next week if it means Wade, Garrett, Romo, Owens, Barber, Roy Williams(the safety) and 4 or 5 other players will be fired, released etc.

I think Kevin (Famine) said it best during last week's Cowboys/NYG game when he asked me if Wade did anything besides "stand there taking up space and having no purpose".

Also, I could live without T.O. but we NEED Romo. Do you want Brad Johnson starting every game? :-X
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on December 24, 2008, 01:35 AM
I still can't get this straight...you would rather have the Pack's most bitter rival (the Bears) get in to the playoffs by losing to them to spite the local Vikings fans?  Is that it?  That is messed up...but par for the course for a Packers fan. 

As far as what the Vikings need...they need two things...a head coach and a QB, outside of that I'd take everything on the Vikings over the Packers right now and going in to next year
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on December 24, 2008, 07:57 AM
I still can't get this straight...you would rather have the Pack's most bitter rival (the Bears) get in to the playoffs by losing to them to spite the local Vikings fans?  Is that it?  That is messed up...but par for the course for a Packers fan. 

As far as what the Vikings need...they need two things...a head coach and a QB, outside of that I'd take everything on the Vikings over the Packers right now and going in to next year


I don't know. I'd rather have Miami win on Sunday to prevent the Pats getting into the playoffs. But us Jets fans are bitter depressed people so that may explain it.  ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on December 24, 2008, 09:18 AM
Damn that Gants/Carolina game was amazing!  I heard the first half on WFAN in the rental car on thedrive from LaGuardia to my parents house (cussing most the way) and came out of my seat several times in the 4th quarter and overtime.

Although I'm a Giants fan through and through, I lived in NC when the Panthers started up and generally root for them.  I have a feeling that the Panthers might be going back to the Meadowlands this year.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on December 24, 2008, 10:15 AM
I still can't get this straight...you would rather have the Pack's most bitter rival (the Bears) get in to the playoffs by losing to them to spite the local Vikings fans?  Is that it?  That is messed up...but par for the course for a Packers fan. 

As far as what the Vikings need...they need two things...a head coach and a QB, outside of that I'd take everything on the Vikings over the Packers right now and going in to next year


Scott, I live in Minnesota.  I would much rather see the Bears make it in than the Queens.  That's a given for any Packer fan living here.  If I lived in Chicago, I'm sure I'd feel the opposite.  You're once again missing the point that there's no real victory either way for the Pack, so why not get a better draft pick? 

If you ever want to bet on a Packers/Vikings game, I'll take the Pack any day and twice on Sunday.  I can't believe you're minimizing the need at head coach and QB - all you're missing are the two most important people on any given team.  ::)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on December 24, 2008, 10:24 AM
Super Bowls have been won by Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson etc etc.  I disagree on that, running the ball and a stellar defense win championships, both of which the Vikings have. The head coach though is an idiot and I've thought that of both guys since they got rid of Denny Green.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on December 24, 2008, 10:32 AM
Go Vikes!!!!!

Even though I'm a Viking fan I've also liked the Pack in the past. But after all the Queen talk I think I will cheer against them (and I hope I don't lose my ability to find Power Ranger toys where SW toys will fit behind-inside joke)  ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on December 24, 2008, 12:06 PM
Super Bowls have been won by Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson etc etc.  I disagree on that, running the ball and a stellar defense win championships, both of which the Vikings have. The head coach though is an idiot and I've thought that of both guys since they got rid of Denny Green.

Okay, not sure where you're going with this.  Both those quarterbacks are better than T-Jack or Ferotte.  I didn't say you had to have Brett Favre or Tony Romo to win, but you do have to have a good quarterback who can manage a game and that includes both of the above.  In addition, both of those guys' coaches were light years ahead of Childress.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on December 24, 2008, 02:25 PM
If the Vikings need a coach maybe you guys will get Cowher?  He's still being floated around out there...  I'd really like, if he is going to come otu of retirement at all, to NOT go to Cleveland.  NOt that he could fix that cluster****, but I'd sooner see him go outside the division.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jeff on December 24, 2008, 02:28 PM
If the Vikings need a coach maybe you guys will get Cowher? 

Are you saying that because you feel bad about stealing the guy that should have been our head coach?   :-X
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on December 24, 2008, 02:33 PM
I didn't realize he was supposed to be, sorry.  Hey, Arizona got our supposed next head coach, and he ate a bit dookie sandwich in New England...  Sometimes good stuff happens.

But yeah, I'm not gonna apologize for Tomlin because, well, we're lovin' the guy right now.  And I stand by my earlier statements that I find Moore to be a superior back (at least with the Steelers) to Willie Parker.  Parker's flaws are being brought out by our weak o-line, and it's a sad thing to see.  ****** o-lines require stronger, more powerful backs, and Moore's got a little bit of that above Parker, plus he's got hands so he's a double-threat.  God I wish they'd give him the ball more.  :(
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on December 24, 2008, 11:26 PM
Super Bowls have been won by Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson etc etc.  I disagree on that, running the ball and a stellar defense win championships, both of which the Vikings have. The head coach though is an idiot and I've thought that of both guys since they got rid of Denny Green.

Okay, not sure where you're going with this.  Both those quarterbacks are better than T-Jack or Ferotte.  I didn't say you had to have Brett Favre or Tony Romo to win, but you do have to have a good quarterback who can manage a game and that includes both of the above.  In addition, both of those guys' coaches were light years ahead of Childress.

You said Tony Romo and win...you obviously weren't talking about games that are played past Thanksgiving...and certainly not playoff games.

Diddly.. Being rid of Romo next season doesn't mean we have to keep Johnson too... I am tired of our "Poor Man's Favre" we have taking snaps (then fumbling in the endzone or throwing INT's).   Romo doesn't try because he knows that even with a broken pinkie he is still the starter because we have Johnson backing him up, no fear of Job loss.   The Dallas Media/The Ticket need to stop calling him a "Jedi" he is JarJar Binks at best..

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on December 25, 2008, 08:48 AM
The Vikings SHOULD have let Green go when the did.

And now to make myself cry  :'( I will point out that the Vikings could and should have had either Dungy or Tomlin as their coaches instead of Tice and Childress.  :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on December 26, 2008, 11:38 AM
If the Vikings need a coach maybe you guys will get Cowher? 

I have been wanting the Jets to go after him. 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on December 28, 2008, 04:20 PM
NFC North Champs!  Can't wait for one and done :)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on December 28, 2008, 08:10 PM
If the Vikings need a coach maybe you guys will get Cowher? 

I have been wanting the Jets to go after him. 

Cowher is the big fish... everyone will want him if he decides to come back.  He'll get his pick of the teams with vacancies. 

He's the only guy out there I'd consider dumping Gruden for.

I don't follow the logic of the Vikings needing him though - they're happy with Childress aren't they?
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on December 28, 2008, 09:01 PM
Not really...I think ownership is...but me and most of the fans think he is a moron.  His clock management, the most important thing he is in charge of is absolutely abyssmal.  He also frequently is outcoached during games.  The Vikes will often get off to a fast start only to get out adjusted coming out in the 2nd half.  I'm not expecting them to beat the Eagles...I am happy they won the North though
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on December 28, 2008, 09:02 PM
****** Bears.  If the defense would have stepped up we could have made the playoffs even with the Vikings win.  
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on December 28, 2008, 09:47 PM
Not really...I think ownership is...but me and most of the fans think he is a moron.  His clock management, the most important thing he is in charge of is absolutely abyssmal.  He also frequently is outcoached during games.  The Vikes will often get off to a fast start only to get out adjusted coming out in the 2nd half.  I'm not expecting them to beat the Eagles...I am happy they won the North though

Congrats to all the Viking fans out there!  (I think that may just be you Scott unless we start hearing from bandwagon fans)  Childress is awfull - I honestly think the Purple would be in better shape if they had a terrible season and BC was let go for someone better.  That could still happen, but I think ownership would be reluctant to let him go after winning a division title, even if the division is as bad as ours.

I was a little worried about the Pack for a while there, but nice to see them beat up on Detroit.  I feel bad for the Lions, but also don't want my club being the only team to give them a win.

How about the Eagles pounding Dallas today?  Oh how the mighty have fallen...
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on December 28, 2008, 09:59 PM
So I hope for Favre's retirement speech tomorrow afternoon and Mangini's firing by 8AM  ;D

I am really happy for Chad, I really hope they do well in the playoffs.

There were a lot of fights today at the stadium, much more than usual. Chad got some good cheers before the game when they were out there practicing.

Of and it is very nice that the Patriots are not in the playoffs becuase the Jets lost.  :D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Diddly on December 29, 2008, 12:57 AM
How about the Eagles pounding Dallas today?  Oh how the mighty have fallen...

I should be upset but I'm not? Saves Dallas from another playoff embarrassment
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on December 29, 2008, 09:48 AM
Yay Vikes. I'm not a bad wagon fan like JediJman apparently claims. You can like more than one team (I'm also a big Patriots fan). I still don't like Childress or Tavaris though.

Enjoy your 9th overall pick Jman. I would argue someone who cheers against their team is less a fan than a bandwagon"er".
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on December 29, 2008, 10:34 AM
Well my prediction for Mangini was a little off...10AM. They need to make a play for Cohwer.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on December 29, 2008, 11:23 AM
I should be upset but I'm not? Saves Dallas from another playoff embarrassment

Surely losing in the playoffs is less embarrassing than being given a win-and-you're-in shot at a division rival and being completely destroyed while everyone was watching.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt Carroll on December 29, 2008, 01:47 PM
I should be upset but I'm not? Saves Dallas from another playoff embarrassment

Surely losing in the playoffs is less embarrassing than being given a win-and-you're-in shot at a division rival and being completely destroyed while everyone was watching.

Well, I can't speak for Dallas in this case, but being a Broncos fan, I'd agree with you.  :'(
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on December 29, 2008, 02:44 PM
Yeah, sucks for the Broncos, but after the Ed Hoculi thing, it's hard to not look at last night as everything being set right.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt Carroll on December 29, 2008, 05:15 PM
Yeah, sucks for the Broncos, but after the Ed Hoculi thing, it's hard to not look at last night as everything being set right.

Yeah, on some level, you are right. I would have been OK (not happy, mind you) with a decent performance and a competitive game with SD winning rather than what took place last night. 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on December 29, 2008, 05:17 PM
I'm less embarassed by the loss than the remarks of the Dallas Quarterback after the game...  If he is going to try to be a Brett Favre clone he is going to need to have some emotion.  Yes Romo, you're too laid back and cool to take this stuff seriously and yes you get to go home to Jessica at the end of the day win or lose, but crap your job as an NFL Quarterback is to WIN games, not just play them.  What exactly did he do all those years of riding the pine?  Practice his golf swing?  Surely he was there when Parcells would chew somebody out for throwing and INT or fumbling?  Wouldn't you think somebody would look at that and think "IF I ever get MY chance, I'm going to protect the ball"...

And that is just one player on this collective (they can't be called a Team)...that needs to be replaced next year with Scabs or local High School Talent or the now idle Arena League Desperados.

And thanks to the media hounding Jerry Jones, he can't fire Wade Phillips now.  Of course if Wade had any dignity he would resign.  

But the playofs are easier to watch when I don't have a rooting interest.  
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on December 29, 2008, 06:05 PM
It's funny but people dont' put enough importance sometimes on what a player's demeanor is after games.  I agree Paul, that if you're putzing around in interviews after a game and you're just not showing much of any sign that you give a poo, you're a douche...  especially after a loss like Dallas was handed.  I saw the score on the ticker and was simply shocked.

It's something I watch for in all the players interviewed after a game, especially a loss.  Who cares, and who's showing smiles?  I let Ward slide because he always smiles, but I can recall a couple players in the past who just didn't care.  Pisses me off when someone doesn't care...  Show you aren't happy.  Show you're upset...  Show some sign of life that this means something to you.  We do the same thing with the kids.  You scan the eyes and see who gave a **** about winning and who didn't.  The kid who gave a **** about winning is the one you're gonna see working harder next week, and the ones who didn't your'e gonna see goofing off in the stands when you're watching the older kids play later that evening.  You can sorta tell who's going to do something in the sport later on in their life by those moments.

I just thank god Diane's boys always care, haha.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on December 30, 2008, 05:12 PM
And that is just one player on this collective (they can't be called a Team)

Well said.  I like how most of the Pre-Game experts picked them to win the Superbowl this year based mainly on how many pro-bowlers they had.  They play more like 11 individuals...not a team and that's why their record sucked (besides injuries).

And thanks to the media hounding Jerry Jones, he can't fire Wade Phillips now. Of course if Wade had any dignity he would resign.  

Do you think Wade Phillips is actually the coach of the team?  Jerry Jones has been the coach since Jimmy Johnson left.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Theo Zissou on December 30, 2008, 06:43 PM
Well yeah i was  :'( and  :-[ the other day over our unreal giving up of the division after holding it all season, but wow Stunner! :shock: "Denver Broncos fire Mike Shanahan". didn't see that coming. kinda thought he would always be our coach. kinda strange. i mean i've been following them pretty much from the time he took over 14 years ago.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on December 31, 2008, 08:52 AM


Do you think Wade Phillips is actually the coach of the team?  Jerry Jones has been the coach since Jimmy Johnson left.

I know that is the trendy and fun thing for most non-Dallas fans and especially fans of Rival teams teams to say, but it really is not the case as much as ESPN would have you believe.   Jones probably has as much power on play calling and "scheme" planning as any other GM, he is the GM too after all.  And that is the problem Jerry has, he is the Owner, GM and Head Cheerleader.  If he could get a good GM he could then be the constant flag waiver that the Owner needs to be.  But as a GM, he needs to be able to say that Romo is a let down, that Wade is a mouth breather and that t.o. is a distraction and the Changes are going to be made. Another problem I see with his management of the team (as a GM) is that he is constantly trying to win "THIS YEAR"...   Dallas needs young talent with some solid veteran leadership.  There is a leadership void in the Lockerroom and Coaches office. 

I am also not one of those phony Football purists that populate the web that hate on Jones for "buying talent"....The problem I have is where he shops.   
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on December 31, 2008, 01:09 PM
My brother has been a Cowboys fan since the days of Too Tall Jones and he cannot stand Jerry Jones.  He also thinks he's the coach of the team (or at the least wants to be).

I agree with you though that the Cowboys don't seem to have much of a plan for the future.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on December 31, 2008, 05:46 PM
There are plenty of local folks that have a strong dislike for Jerry just because he got rid of Landry.   These same folks HATED Jimmy till Jerry and Jimmy got cross...then they became Jimmy fans.  And I don't even doubt that during the 5-11 seasons with Chan Galey and Dave Campo that those were Jerry coached teams.   It is just not as "obvious" as folks like to make out in their mind.  If we are looking at a sliding scale, it is by no means as obtrusive as Al Davis and little Danny Snyder...but not as subtle as the other 29 anonymous owners (or ownership groups) who have no recognition outside their home market.

Dallas did make a coaching move today...some special teams assistant....boy that will show them.  Next up the equipment guy, then hopefully Rowdy the cartoon mascot (unless he can complete a pass, then suit him up)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Mikey D on January 2, 2009, 02:00 PM
NFC North: Vikings  ;D
NFC East: Cowboys   ???
NFC South: Saints   ???
NFC West: Seahawks   :-\
Wild Card: Giants  :D
Wild Card: Eagles  ;D

AFC North: Steelers  ;D
AFC East: Patriots  :( :(
AFC South: Jaguars  >:(
AFC West: Chargers  ;D
Wild Card: Colts  ;D
Wild Card: Browns  >:(

NFC Championship: Cowboys over Saints  >:( >:(
AFC Championship: Patriots over Jaguars   :'( >:(

Super Bowl: Pats over Cowboys  :'( >:(

My pre-season picks with bonus smiley commentary.  Holy ****, that was bad.  My four Championship teams didn't even make the playoffs (thanks Favre for the help. Asswipe).

Let's see if I do slightly better with playoff predictions.  I really think all four away teams can win this weekend, but I just don't see it happening.  At least one home team has to win.

Wild Card:
Eagles over Vikings
Falcons over Cardinals
Ravens over Dolphins
Chargers over Colts

Divisional:
Giants over Eagles
Panthers over Falcons
Titans over Ravens
Steelers over Chargers

Conference Championship:
Panthers over Giants
Titans over Steelers

Super Bowl:
Titans over Panthers
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on January 2, 2009, 03:41 PM
NFC North: Vikings ;D
NFC East: Cowboys ???
NFC South: Saints  ???
NFC West: Seahawks :-\
Wild Card: Redskins  :-\
Wild Card: Packers  >:(

AFC North: Steelers  ;D
AFC East: Patriots  ???
AFC South: Indy  :)
AFC West: Denver  :-\
Wild Card: Browns >:(
Wild Card: Jaguars >:(


Super Bowl: Colts over Cowboys

Wow...I did just as bad

Here is my playoff bracket

NFC

Eagles over Vikings
Cardinals over Falcons
Panthers over Cardinals
Giants over Eagles
Panthers over Giants

AFC

Colts over Chargers
Ravens over Dolphins
Ravens over Titans
Colts over Steelers
Colts over Ravens

Super Bowl

Colts over Panthers

Book it
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: P-Siddy on January 2, 2009, 04:12 PM
Quote
NFC
Giants over Eagles

With the way both teams have been playing lately, I'd go with the Eagles (plus Eagles beat the Giants last time out). I might be biased though, being an Eagles fan.  8)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: evenflow on January 2, 2009, 05:17 PM
Wild Card:
Eagles over Vikings
Falcons over Cardinals
Dolphins over Ravens
Colts over Chargers

Divisional:
Giants over Eagles
Panthers over Falcons
Titans over Miami
Steelers over Colts

Conference Championship:
Panthers over Giants
Steelers over Titans

Super Bowl:
Steelers over Panthers
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on January 2, 2009, 05:32 PM
I like the cut of Evenflow's Jib there.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Morgbug on January 2, 2009, 11:24 PM
I'm taking the Vikes in an upset.  If they win, next time I'm in MN Scott's buying all my booze.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Diddly on January 3, 2009, 12:04 AM
Wild Card:
- Eagles over Vikings
- Falcons over Cardinals
- Dolphins over Ravens
- Colts over Chargers

Divisional:
- Eagles over Giants
- Panthers over Falcons
- Dolphins over Titans
- Colts over Steelers

Conference:
- Panthers over Eagles
- Dolphins over Colts

Super Bowl:
- Panthers over Dolphins

I just hope at least one of the Manning led teams will be ousted. Manning vs. Manning will make me a bored, sad panda.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 3, 2009, 08:29 AM
I'm taking the Vikes in an upset.  If they win, next time I'm in MN Scott's buying all my booze.

Careful on those bets with Scott.  He's been owing me a big frosty brew for several months now with no planned payment date in site.  My only hope is that the Vikings actually win a game or two and he decides to drive up to the cities to gloat.   ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Neal on January 3, 2009, 07:47 PM
I'm surprised how many "experts" picked Atlanta to win today. They were only 4-4 on the road this year, and regardless of how good Matt Ryan was all season, he's still a rookie QB in the playoffs. Arizona isn't any good, but they play well at home and their crowd was really fired up. That's always a bonus.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 3, 2009, 09:50 PM
I'm surprised how many "experts" picked Atlanta to win today. They were only 4-4 on the road this year, and regardless of how good Matt Ryan was all season, he's still a rookie QB in the playoffs. Arizona isn't any good, but they play well at home and their crowd was really fired up. That's always a bonus.


How do you figure that Arizona "isn't any good?"  They aren't the most complete team I've ever seen, but they are one of only 12 teams to make the playoffs, only a few teams have been able to stop their offense (and most of those were meaningless games at the end of the season), and they swept everyone in their division this year.  I'm not going to bet on them, but I wouldn't be remotely surprised to see them win the NFC. 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Neal on January 3, 2009, 11:58 PM
Someone had to win that division, I guess.  They were 1-4 against the other playoff teams they played against this year, scored one more point than they gave up all season, and of their 9 wins, only 2 came against teams with winning records.  Yeah, they made the playoffs.  They still stink.  What are they going to do if they have to go into Philadelphia or New York and play in the cold weather?  Lose 47-7 again like they did against the Patriots?
It was nice to see them make the playoffs and host a game for the first time in over 60 years, but I don't see them coming out of the NFC.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 4, 2009, 12:10 AM
Someone had to win that division, I guess.  They were 1-4 against the other playoff teams they played against this year, scored one more point than they gave up all season, and of their 9 wins, only 2 came against teams with winning records.  Yeah, they made the playoffs.  They still stink.  What are they going to do if they have to go into Philadelphia or New York and play in the cold weather?  Lose 47-7 again like they did against the Patriots?
It was nice to see them make the playoffs and host a game for the first time in over 60 years, but I don't see them coming out of the NFC.

Okay, please name another team that has swept their entire division in recent years and I think you'll find the cards in small, but good company.  My team of choice is in the pathetic NFC North and even there it's pretty difficult for any team to dominate the other three.  The Cards beat Miami (another playoff team) and only lost to the Panthers by 4.  As for the New England game, you are aware that they were coming off a major loss and had absolutely nothing to play for in that game, right? 

Philly has had some nice games, but only scored 7 against Baltimore and 3 against the Skins.  The Giants have been awful without Burress, losing games to Dallas, Philly, and the Vikes over the last month.  I don't see either team as being all that scary for the Cardinals.  I guess we'll see what happens next week - I just don't see how you can consider one of the final 8 teams to be "not good." 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Neal on January 4, 2009, 12:33 AM
Okay, please name another team that has swept their entire division in recent years and I think you'll find the cards in small, but good company. 

Who gives a **** when the rest of your division is 13-35?  They should win all of those games. 
OK ... calling them "not any good" was probably a bit harsh, but I'm still not convinced that they're going to light up the NFC playoffs. 
Still ... I knew that they were going to beat Atlanta.
 ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jayson on January 4, 2009, 08:07 PM
Another typical showing by the Vikings. :( They were simply outplayed and outcoached.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Morgbug on January 4, 2009, 08:25 PM
Another typical showing by the Vikings. :( They were simply outplayed and outcoached.


That was not a pretty game to watch.  Some bad early clock management and Jackson was waaaaaaaaaaay off on some of the throws :o  He wasn't completely awful and I don't think I'd blame the game on him, but that botched snap was pretty bloody awful.   :-\
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: P-Siddy on January 4, 2009, 09:22 PM
The Eagles/Vikings game was bittersweet for me. They're my two favorite teams and sad to see one go right away... if only it was the NFC championship game. The Eagles didn't look too sharp in what I saw (missed the first half at work) until Westbrook's TD. McNabb was getting sacked or stripped quite a bit....

On to the Giants, I hope that the Eagles can maintain their momentum and take the Giants down. A little surprised by the Colts losing, but the Chargers have been looking good, too.

I believe the Vikings can build on what they have. Things seem to be falling into place and hopefully they can keep the team together. I'm not sure about quarterbacks, but I thought Frerotte did a great job (though some of my coworkers disagree)... Jackson seems to do it or doesn't.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 4, 2009, 10:24 PM
Jackson seems to do it or doesn't.

Is that lack of sleep talking?  What other options are there?   ;)

Tough loss for all the Viking fans out there (Brent, Scott...did I miss anyone else?), but better to end your misery now the perpetuate false hope.  I guess Adrian Peterson and company can join A-Rodge watching the games from the armchair next week. 

On a bright note, I'm playing the NFL playoff challenge and Adrian Peterson kicked butt for me this week.  My team was almost all top scorers at their positions - the only let down I had was picking B. Berrian instead of someone like A. Gonzales.   :P
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on January 5, 2009, 08:42 AM
What in the world are anyone who thinks Tavaris Jackson is a NFL QB wathcing. The guy absolutely can't run a pro team. Why don't the Vikings front office and Childress not see that? He can't throw the ball.

If you were watching the game with someone who never had seen football and had one sentence to say the QB is the guy who...... wouldn't you say who THROWS the ball? He can't. There was zero chance he was going to bring the Vikings down the field for 2 scores in the 4th quarter.

Your down that much with 2 minutes left and all you do is throw 3 yard passes because your "QB" can't throw the ******* ball. There are so many NFL QBs like that nowadays. I don't get it. I can't stand it. I don't want a fake RB as my QB.

And now because he played mediocre in the last few games as opposed to horrendous in the first two game he will be our QB next year and buy the time the idiots finally catch on that he sucks the rest of our team won't be around. I'm so pissed right now.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: P-Siddy on January 5, 2009, 10:27 AM
So, Nick, would you keep Frerotte over Jackson then when Gus' back gets better? I've heard Vikings fans praise Tavaris, but Frerotte was the one who turned the team around and got them where they did.

Jackson seems to do it or doesn't.

Is that lack of sleep talking?  What other options are there?   ;)

Yes, lack of sleep could be the answer with a one-month newborn. But I guess what I meant to say is, he's either on or off, there is no happy medium.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: knashdx on January 5, 2009, 11:09 AM
Another typical showing by the Vikings. :( They were simply outplayed and outcoached.



Drop Jackson and by all means fire that MORON Childress!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on January 5, 2009, 02:45 PM
I did not see too many Vikings games this year, but I can't believe how bad Childress is with clock management.  I have a similar gripe with the Giants at times, but they are freaking clock management experts compared to Childress!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: knashdx on January 5, 2009, 02:55 PM
Considering how bad Denny Green was back in 1998 with the game on the line with Atlanta for the NFC Championship, I would rather have Denny Green over Childress any day of the week. Hell I would take Mike Tice over Childress. Ziggy needs to drop Childress and grab Shanahan while he can.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on January 5, 2009, 03:07 PM
So, Nick, would you keep Frerotte over Jackson then when Gus' back gets better? I've heard Vikings fans praise Tavaris, but Frerotte was the one who turned the team around and got them where they did.

They absolutely should have started Gus instead of Tavaris once his back was ok. You HAVE to be able to throw the ball down field. I'm certainly not saying Gus is a great choice but at least he is an ACTUAL QB. What the Vikes really need to do is go out and get a young real QB. Who I don't know. But if they had seen what I saw the first time I watched TJack play they could have already gotten someone else.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on January 5, 2009, 05:57 PM
Kurt Warner draws God (or Jesus). (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MiFybqLFeY)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 5, 2009, 10:02 PM
Kurt Warner draws God (or Jesus). (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MiFybqLFeY)

That's just weird.  Why does that even exist?  It's weird enough to happen, let alone for it to have been videotaped.  I thought for sure the picture would look more like Brett Favre.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on January 6, 2009, 10:40 AM
Kurt Warner draws God (or Jesus). (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MiFybqLFeY)

That's just weird.  Why does that even exist?  It's weird enough to happen, let alone for it to have been videotaped.  I thought for sure the picture would look more like Brett Favre.

I'm assuming it exists because if you can get a "celebrity" to praise Jesus more people are going to listen than if you or I do. The drawing was odd, but if it works, then good.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt on January 6, 2009, 08:12 PM
The three hours he spent shading Jesus' upper lip were mercifully edited out of the clip shown.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on January 8, 2009, 08:56 AM
Dallas Cowboys released Adam Pacman Jones...  1 down, 50 more to go.

Now if I can just frame Wade and Tony No-Mo for giving TO a "Nancy Kerrigan" that will be 3 more out of the way.

Addition by Subtraction.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Dressel Rebel on January 10, 2009, 10:46 AM
Dallas Cowboys released Adam Pacman Jones...  1 down, 50 more to go.

Now if I can just frame Wade and Tony No-Mo for giving TO a "Nancy Kerrigan" that will be 3 more out of the way.

Addition by Subtraction.

You can send Terrell Owens over to the Giants, we'll take him right now.  I'd give him 3 years $25 million in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Morgbug on January 10, 2009, 02:48 PM
On a different team where they'd cater to him for a year or two, I'd take him as well.  No question of his talent, but sometime during the two year mark, things seem to start to break down.  When his ability starts to fail with age, it will be ugly.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on January 10, 2009, 03:09 PM
Dallas Cowboys released Adam Pacman Jones...  1 down, 50 more to go.

Now if I can just frame Wade and Tony No-Mo for giving TO a "Nancy Kerrigan" that will be 3 more out of the way.

Addition by Subtraction.

You can send Terrell Owens over to the Giants, we'll take him right now.  I'd give him 3 years $25 million in a heartbeat.

As a Giants fan....I never want to see TO in a Giants uniform.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 10, 2009, 03:58 PM
As a Giants fan....I never want to see TO in a Giants uniform.

Enjoy your future losing seasons.  Who is Eli going to throw to next year?  I don't see Hixon and Toomer leading the team to another Super Bowl.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on January 10, 2009, 04:43 PM
I think receivers will be available in the FA market and they'll go shopping...  I agree with Matt, from another perspective though, that I wouldn't want TO on my team...  Synergy is everything it's cracked up to be, and a guy tearing a team apart in the locker room, on the field, or on the sidelines, is a plague that'll eat up the best of teams.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt on January 10, 2009, 05:09 PM
As a Giants fan....I never want to see TO in a Giants uniform.

(http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/3410/ys2lq5.jpg)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on January 10, 2009, 05:27 PM
As a Giants fan....I never want to see TO in a Giants uniform.

Enjoy your future losing seasons.  Who is Eli going to throw to next year?  I don't see Hixon and Toomer leading the team to another Super Bowl.

There's also Boss and who know what rookies they'll get in the draft, not to mention Tyree will be back next year.  The Giants do not need TO.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Paul on January 10, 2009, 08:26 PM
As a Cowboy fan I don't want to see him in a Giant Uniform either.  He is productive on the field and has been Very low-key (for him at least) up until this season.  Until earlier this season he was no more a knucklehead than MOST #1 receivers.  But like somebody said...at about the 2 year mark he HAS to try to burn the building down.  I think he might just need a Hug or something. 

He needs to go to the AFC...they need some drama.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 10, 2009, 09:03 PM
There's also Boss and who know what rookies they'll get in the draft, not to mention Tyree will be back next year.  The Giants do not need TO.

Boss, Tyree, Hixon, S. Smith, and Toomer...yikes.  I don't know of too many rookies who make an impact in their first year either. 

Good luck my friend - I hope you have a great defense and ground game.

I think receivers will be available in the FA market and they'll go shopping...  I agree with Matt, from another perspective though, that I wouldn't want TO on my team...  Synergy is everything it's cracked up to be, and a guy tearing a team apart in the locker room, on the field, or on the sidelines, is a plague that'll eat up the best of teams.

You act like he's the only player that ever disagrees with his teammates.  I'm sure there are plenty of disagreements and bad feelings on every team, but Owens is the one we constantly hear about in the media.  Would you rather have Steve Smith?  How many teammates has he sent to the hospital?  How about Vincent Jackson or one of a dozen other guys who will get busted drunk driving or using drugs? 

I'd take Owens on the Packers in a heartbeat.  The guy has a mouth, but at least he backs it up with his playing.  Most of the superstars at each position are big talkers - I guess I'd rather have that than someone with a big mouth who doesn't perform.

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 10, 2009, 09:13 PM
I'm surprised how many "experts" picked Atlanta to win today. They were only 4-4 on the road this year, and regardless of how good Matt Ryan was all season, he's still a rookie QB in the playoffs. Arizona isn't any good, but they play well at home and their crowd was really fired up. That's always a bonus.


Just an FYI - that team that isn't any good is looking like they may make it to the final four...  :-X
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Mikey D on January 11, 2009, 07:55 AM
Super Bowl:
Titans over Panthers

See, that's why I never bet on football games...

Holy ****, Delomme.  That was Favre-esque.  Great job.

The Ravens D is scary.  They're looking to kill you every time you touch the ball (and some will say a certain linebacker actually did kill someone). 

Out of the six remaining teams, I'm really just not rooting for two teams - the Giants and Chargers.  The former because I don't want to see a repeat champion that's not the Patriots & I hate all NY teams and the latter because they're a bunch of whiny bitches.  I don't have the hatred for the Steelers that some Pats fans do (although I'm pretty positive most Steelers fans hate the Patriots).  I've said it once, but I'll say it again, I would love to have Troy Polamalu on my team.  I have no issues with the Ravens.  Cocky, maybe.  But at least they back it up.  The Eagles have always been my NFC team and I can't root against a team that's been ****** for so many years (although I'm not the biggest Warner fan in the world).

And I'll say this - although I'm disappointed the Pats didn't make the playoffs, it's kind of refreshing not to have to live and die with every play in the playoffs.  I can sit back and enjoy the games calmly.


Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Nicklab on January 11, 2009, 04:24 PM
Dallas Cowboys released Adam Pacman Jones...  1 down, 50 more to go.

Now if I can just frame Wade and Tony No-Mo for giving TO a "Nancy Kerrigan" that will be 3 more out of the way.

Addition by Subtraction.

You can send Terrell Owens over to the Giants, we'll take him right now.  I'd give him 3 years $25 million in a heartbeat.

As a Giants fan....I never want to see TO in a Giants uniform.

Same here.  Thanks, but no thanks.  There's no need to pursue a guy who's a proven cancer in the clubhouse.  Especially after the whole Plaxico Burress situation.

Matt...don't go pinning your hopes on David Tyree.  The guy has been a solid special teams player and made one spectacular catch.  But other than that his career has not been spectacular.

Personally, I'm disgusted to see the Giants lose at home to Philly.  But the writing was on the wall.  They managed that win against the Panthers, but were not playing solid football leading into the playoffs. 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on January 11, 2009, 04:38 PM
My point was I don't think T.O. would be good with the Giants...or any team for that matter.  He has some good receiving skills, but they don't outweigh that gaping hole in his face that spews all sorts of crap.

The Giants D did fairly well today, but the Eli didn't seem to show up for the game.  Oh well...I didn't even expect them to make the playoffs this year when the season started so I'm happy with their performance overall this year.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 11, 2009, 05:36 PM

The Giants D did fairly well today, but the Eli didn't seem to show up for the game.  Oh well...I didn't even expect them to make the playoffs this year when the season started so I'm happy with their performance overall this year.

The Def looked great - the offense had it's moments too, but just couldn't get in the end zone.  That could have been a seriously high scoring game if either team could have crossed the stripe instead of settling for FGs.  Blame Eli all you want - I say he doesn't have anyone that good to throw too.  Hixon is probably the best receiver they have and he's just not #1 WR talent.  But of course, they have no need for someone like Owens or Burress for that matter.   ::)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on January 11, 2009, 06:11 PM
I agree on the Giants needed Receivers...the ones they have are crap on not having a true #1 hurt them most of the 2nd half of the year. 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on January 11, 2009, 06:21 PM
I'm not saying that they don't need a better WR.  Hixon is ok, but he's a better special teams guy.  I just don't think T.O. would be a good fit with the Giants.  Get a rookie before T.O.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on January 11, 2009, 07:16 PM
As much as I hate the Eagles, I do kind of like the way that they're the last team from the East standing... given how at the start of the year we all got to hear about how the NFC East was the best division in football and how they'd be sending three teams to the playoffs... the Cowboys, Giants, and Redskins...
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 11, 2009, 11:31 PM
I'm not saying that they don't need a better WR.  Hixon is ok, but he's a better special teams guy.  I just don't think T.O. would be a good fit with the Giants.  Get a rookie before T.O.

Well they have rookies right now and no Owens...how'd that work out for them today?  Rookies are very rarely an instant success if at all.  If you're not looking at a free agent, then Giants fans should plan for their squad to enter a rebuilding phase.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on January 12, 2009, 02:03 AM
There's a reason you hear about Owens the most...  He's the most vocal publicly, and teams he's been on have all thought he was worth the trouble.  How many changed their tune though? 

A lot of it is the club and how the team is run from the front office down I think...  Some want to take a risk on a guy that, as others have said, is a "proven cancer".  Do other guys disagree?  I'm sure, it's human nature, but other organizations make sure it's either nipped in the bud early, or that the players know their place and aren't given this free reign to run their mouth to the media and their coach, etc. 

TO's good, that's not the debate here, but I think it's pretty hard to ignore that he does cause public problems, and there's a HUGE difference between disagreeing with your teammates sometimes, and causing public drama by openly criticizing your team, your coaches, and your organization as a whole.  As I said, some organizations have taken the gamble that the play outweighs the attitude, and I think they get what they ultimately ask for I think...  Teams that respect the authority in the organization are teams that generally work better I think, but that's me.  It's a big reason Burress was not kept around Pittsburgh...  Also Randle El.  Some superstars we've had, had a mouth on them for sure, but if they hung around long it's because they knew to direct their mouth at the opponent, or not to say anything at all in the spotlight.

In other news...  Go f'n Steelers go! :)  Tore up San Diego, which was nice because there were some real prick Charger fans in Pittsburgh for the game whining about the cold and stuff.  The score didn't even do the game itself justice...  I wish I could run into the 3 guys from San Diego that were our Saturday night talking a load of ****.  I'm curious what they're thinking today a little more sober and a lot less happy they flew out here since it was more than the cold that bit them in the ass.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Dressel Rebel on January 12, 2009, 11:49 AM
I'm not saying that they don't need a better WR.  Hixon is ok, but he's a better special teams guy.  I just don't think T.O. would be a good fit with the Giants.  Get a rookie before T.O.

Well they have rookies right now and no Owens...how'd that work out for them today?  Rookies are very rarely an instant success if at all.  If you're not looking at a free agent, then Giants fans should plan for their squad to enter a rebuilding phase.

No way, this team is built to win next year.  Eli, Jacobs, Ward/Bradshaw, Tuck, Umenyiora.  We've got the parts.  They will ink a bigtime WR - if they can't finagle Owens, I think Houshmandzadeh or Boldin will be available.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on January 12, 2009, 12:44 PM
No way, this team is built to win next year.  Eli, Jacobs, Ward/Bradshaw, Tuck, Umenyiora.  We've got the parts.  They will ink a bigtime WR - if they can't finagle Owens, I think Houshmandzadeh or Boldin will be available.

If either Boldin or Housmadilla is available, the Giants will have to outbid the Bucs for him. 

As for Jacobs and Ward... they're both free agents, I doubt they can re-sign both.

But yes, I expect the Giants to be good next year.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Dressel Rebel on January 12, 2009, 02:40 PM
No way, this team is built to win next year.  Eli, Jacobs, Ward/Bradshaw, Tuck, Umenyiora.  We've got the parts.  They will ink a bigtime WR - if they can't finagle Owens, I think Houshmandzadeh or Boldin will be available.

If either Boldin or Housmadilla is available, the Giants will have to outbid the Bucs for him. 

As for Jacobs and Ward... they're both free agents, I doubt they can re-sign both.

But yes, I expect the Giants to be good next year.

That's why I wrote it "Ward/Bradshaw", I'm assuming they are resigning Jacobs and then it'll be Bradshaw, because Ward will walk in a Michael Turner type situation.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 12, 2009, 02:44 PM
There's a reason you hear about Owens the most...  He's the most vocal publicly, and teams he's been on have all thought he was worth the trouble.  How many changed their tune though? 

He's most vocal publicly?  He speaks at press conferences just like everybody else.  The reason you think he's publicly vocal is that the media covers everything he has to say.  There are hours upon hours of post game PC coverage each week.  Wee only see a small portion of this, but you can guarantee that we'll see anything Owens has to say.  The guy wants to win and gets upset when the team is not winning - wow, what a threat to the team.  

Giants fans, keep talking the talk because you're not going anywhere without some upgrades at receiver.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on January 12, 2009, 03:51 PM
Yes, out of every player interviewed, the media ONLY ever focuses on TO, every Sunday, week-in-and-week-out...  Only Owens.  ;)

JMan, you don't live in a fantasy world, I know you know better...  Every Pittsburgh player every week is scrutinized by what he says in our local media...  The first time one of them says something dumb**** like, "Yeah, that was a tough loss and if our offensive-line would've stepped up and done their job, maybe we'd have won the game.", you better BELIEVE the local and national media are gonna jump on that player...  At the very least our local media would have a hard-on over it though...  but it doesn't happen often at all, or if it does it's immediately nipped in the bud by the organization. 

Why?

Because the Steeler organization doesn't put up with ******** like TO...  They CHOOSE to keep their players in line, like they should, and demand a certain level of respect out of them.  Case-in-point, Willie Parker bitched after I believe the game prior to our last of the season...  He was upset with the offensive coordinator, the play calling, and how he was being utlized.  He didn't say much, certainly nothing one would call outrageous, he just spoke his mind about the offense... 

Guess what?  He was apologizing the next day, and spinning it (poorly I might add) that he was misinterpreted...  THe organization snapped his ass back into reality, and deflated his ego.  It was less than a day before he was "rewording" his statement.  Hell, a big deal was made of a rookie sending a text message (allegedly, nobody's even sure this actually happened), and that guy caught major **** from the organization publicly.

Again...  TO's a great player, but you're nuts if you think he's the only guy scrutinized by the media...  He's not.  Every team's drama is like a drop of blood in shark-infested waters, and every team is being watched every week for that one dumb**** statement to come out...  TO's just made a habit of it.  That's not a mistake or coincidence.  He's an *******, he's critical of his teammates, and when you do that you make guys you have to rely on not really give a **** about you, your yards, your receptions, or your bonuses.

But that's fine, honestly.  I love the fact he'll float around to the teams that are willing (or desperate?  I think that was Dallas' reasoning) for a good player at the WR position, despite his attitude.  Other organizations are just smart enough to avoid it IMO.  Maybe he'd be a great fit in NY?  Maybe not...  I'm only sure he'll find something to bitch about at some point.  When we beat the Cowboys this season he was the only guy making a spectacle on the sidelines, yelling and bitching.  I guess that was just the media bias against TO though.  ::)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on January 12, 2009, 05:45 PM
Just wanted to say that I think you are right on Jesse James with your last post. When you let a selfish ego maniac do whatever he wants he is going to rip your team apart. It's a lot more the organization's fault than it is the media.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 13, 2009, 08:42 AM
Yes, out of every player interviewed, the media ONLY ever focuses on TO, every Sunday, week-in-and-week-out...  Only Owens.  ;)

Talk about living in a fantasy world.  Re-read my post and tell me where I said that Owens was the ONLY player scrutinized by the media.  Of course they cover other players and they are willing to sensationalize anything that would cause contraversy.  That's why they cover Owens so much, because you can almost guarante he's going to say something other than the usual PC that comes from everyone else.

The point was that TO gets a hell of a lot more media focus than most guys and the media will take anything he says and try to spin it.  I remember a game last year where they kept showing clips of what looked like Owens screaming at Romo on the sidelines.  There were reports everywhere of how TO was going off the handle again.  Then we actually heard from Romo, Owens, and others and he was just trying to get the offense excited - not throwing blame at anyone.  I'm not saying the guy doesn't say dumb things, but if you don't think he gets more attention than most NFL players then you're living in a fantasy world.

One more thing since you brought it up - I don't necessarily think it's wrong for Owens to come out and say "we could have won if the O-line had performed better."  Maybe that's true and maybe it fires up the O-line a little bit.  He should take on more of the blame himself too though.  Your example of Willie Parker basically says you should never speak out against the organization even if it's something they feel strongly about - I don't subscribe to that.  You could just as easily say "The Steelers organization doesn't put up with free thought or freedom of speech."  If you want NFL players to act like good little sheep, don't put a camera and a mike in front of them every week.  These guys are here to play football, not make pretty speeches and kiss management butt.

And I guarantee you that most teams not interested in Owens are more afraid of his salary than his mouth.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on January 13, 2009, 01:19 PM
Quote
I don't necessarily think it's wrong for Owens to come out and say "we could have won if the O-line had performed better."

Proving to me that you've never been a part of a "team" sport in your life... 

Football teams are not a democracy.  Much like Jedi Defender or other privately run things, it's not the player's place to criticize teammates publicly...  You can have your opinion, you can take it to someone in some authority, but ultimately if you run your mouth publicly you are a detriment to your team.  It's a problem many teams face and which hurts them on and off the field, and if I can't convince you of that then I just chalk that up to your inexperience playing sports then.  Sorry JMan but your arguments just don't hold water to me.

Like I said though, if he's so great, his salary shouldn't worry other teams who want a franchise anchor type player at WR...  It's not like Owens makes so much he can only be signed on for short contracts.  He could be an anchor on a team's offense, but he sails around the NFL...  His price?  Keep stickin' your head in the sand my friend...  It's his attitude.  Teams that take a risk on him usually are taking it thinking he'll get them through tto a superbowl win, and he doesn't even produce that, basically making him a short-term solution/risk.

You think he is scrutinized too much apparantly, and I think he's scrutinized because he's earned the microscope like a badge of honor.  Some teams can deal with that for a season or two, and others think players should show respect to their teammates and their coaching staff.  Those teams seem to be a bit more successful too.  That goes beyond just running your sucker about your teammates publicly, and goes to staying out of criminal activities (Burress, Vick, etc.), and other things that are an equal embarassment to the organization too.  But if you want to screw a good team up, nothing works better than laying blame for losses during the post-game press conferences and interviews.  That'll make the O-Line block better, or the Quarterback look to you in the endzone. ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 14, 2009, 12:41 AM
Proving to me that you've never been a part of a "team" sport in your life... 

...proving to me that your understanding of "evidence" is seriously flawed.  I have in fact participated in several team sports in my day, so I guess we've learned that you're not a very good judge of people.  Be a grown up and argue your point without trying to insult my "experience with team sports" Jesse.  ::)

Football teams are not a democracy - I agree.  Doesn't mean that being part of a team means you lose your freedom of speech.  If you're too afraid of someone challenging your sacred opinion of the way things are run, then don't create a forum for those people to express their thoughts.  Where is the logic in holding press conferences for players if they are all supposed to follow a script of what to say?  I think you have team sports confused with the military, sir.

And please don't suggest that every team in the NFL can suddenly afford an additional $7-8 million per year, plus a signing bonus.  There's a little something called a salary cap that you may not have heard of, and even if he is the most talented WR in the league, he needs a supporting cast to be successful.  The guy has been on three teams since 1996 and you call that "Sailing around the NFL?"  Brett Favre's been on three teams now too, so I suppose you feel the same about him.  How about Edggerin James and Kurt Warner?  Those guys must all have attitude problems.

Do I think Owens has created the media frenzy that explodes every time he talks to the public?  You bet.  But if you don't realize that people start looking for negatives and drawing unfair comparisons to exploit someone they don't like, then you need a reality check.  In fact, you have no further to look than yourself Jesse.  The guy has been on three teams, yet you suggest that he's bouncing around the league wearing out his welcome.  Does Owens get caught doing drugs or shooting people or dogfighting?  No - he says unpopular things.  And you compare that to the likes of Vick and Burress and their ilk?  That's messed up.   

Listen, I don't agree with a lot of what Owens says or what he does or even the way he does it.  But my not agreeing with it doesn't make it wrong.  Are there potential downstream ramifications?  Sure!  Any time you voice an opinion that differs from someone else's, you run the risk of retaliation.  If your arguement is that an O-line wouldn't block as well for Owens or that the QB would purposely look elsewhere because of his comments, then you should realize that it's those guys who are not giving their all for the team.  Cripes, they are just words after all.  If you're going to go cry yourself to sleep because Owens publicly criticized you then maybe you need to grow a pair.

Anyway, we obviously just need to agree to disagree.  I don't care if it's an unpopular choice, I'd take a talented hard working guy like Owens on my team any day of the week.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on January 14, 2009, 01:21 AM
OK, I'll rephrase it then and say I can make an educated guess you've never played a sport like hockey or football...  My experiences with both, and every experience anyone I know who ever played either, tells you that you do not **** talk your teammates...  It's just not koscher, at any level, be it peewee or pro or between... 

"Why have press conferences....?", is about as poor an argument as I can think of for your point.  Press conferences are the media's digging, but that doesn't mean it should ever be a greenlight for players to decide they're going to "just tell it like it is".  As an adult, they should know that, and to address concerns to the coaching staff...  But, I'm not gonna get my point across and I see that.  Fact is though, guys like Owens are a cancer on their team because they cannot control their behavior and the things they say.  Is he a criminal?  No, but people who do dumb **** (criminally or otherwise) that impacts the team negatively (be it removing themselves from the game, or causing major trust issues and "problems" in the locker room), are a plague to me.  I was glad we let Burress go because he was like that...  He started showing a cocky attitude, and was basically not considered worth the Steelers' time.

Does Romo purposely not throw to Owens?  If I was getting my playing questioned and criticized by Owens, I don't know how I could trust him...  He doesn't trust me, so why should I purposely look to him?  Who knows if he's half-assing things now, or running wrong routes because he thinks everyone around him isn't trying?  Again, my point about "playing on a team".  Those speeches coaches make about looking at the guy next to you aren't bull****...  Football's a lot of trust for all 11 guys, and when you can't even trust your WR to take some blame himself, and he's putting it all on the other 10, it's a negative to the team.

But I'm done arguing that point.  I don't know anyone who thinks you're right, and that talking **** on your teammates is ever acceptable, but like you say we'll "agree to disagree" on that one I guess.  I hope if you're coaching kids though, you're not teaching them that "just being honest" about your team is the way to go.  Kids (and TO of course) tend to be the first ones to behave that way I've noticed.

My personal feeling is if Owens was SUCH a fantastic player, and he really is good, and that how a player behaves and "fits" with his team isn't an issue, then he'd have been locked up long-term as an anchor to a team that was looking to win...  I think that was Dallas' idea, and now they're seriously considering if it was worth it.  Every team deals with cap issues, every team wants a great wide receiver long-term for their offense as that anchor and go-to-guy, and yet Owens is being bantied about as getting dropped because of his disruptive behavior...  I dunno, that just doesn't jive to me.

Again, you don't think team chemistry means much, and that's fine, and neither does Terrel Owens it seems...  I don't think many teams want to put up with a guy like Owens' bull**** though, and know that signing him is going to be pricey, and it's going to be a gamble on whether he'll keep his mouth shut publicly or not...  I don't know many people at all looking for those kinds of problems on their team.  You shyould be able to get a GOOD WR who works hard, and who has some humility I think.

Good luck to anyone looking to take him if Dallas decides to unload him.  I think you'll need it...  or at least a lot of tolerance.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 14, 2009, 11:00 PM
Well, your educated guesses are about as good as your debate skills it seems.  Let me give you a hand here:

#1 - Argue your own points.  First you try to insult my experience with team sports, which you have no evidence of and were blatently wrong about (twice now), then you try to prove your point by saying "everyone" is behind you.  You're going to argue on behalf of "the experience of everyone you know?"  I'm sure that you've checked the opinions of everyone you've ever known who's played team sports to get their opinion on Owens.   ::)  And I certainly believe that you have ties to the Cowboys front office where you've personally overheard the conversations that took place regarding expectations for Owens as well as their current plans for him.  Please inform the rest of us what else the Cowboys managment is "seriously considering" based on your first hand experience.  Heck, maybe you can tell us what every team is thinking based on you not knowing "too many people looking for those kinds of problems on their team."  If you need to feel like others are backing you to make your points, then you must not have much confidence in your own convictions.

#2 - If you're going to refute a point and call it poor, offer an explanation why.  You say press conferences are a bad example...okay, elaborate. Instead, you just revert to the same crap about Owens being a "cancer."  Look, you are saying that Players should not express any opinions other than positive comments about the team and their teammates.  I am asking why hold press conferences if you're essentially going to control what the players are saying?  There's no point to the dog and pony show if they're going to all say the same thing, right?  If you don't want your players expressing their opinions, then don't have them take the podium.  If you do have them talk to the press, recognize that they're human beings and they have a right to express their opinions.

#3 - Thanks for admitting that you're a poor team player.  You're inferring that you or Romo or anyone who is being called out by Owens shouldn't trust him on the field.  Owens can talk all day, but when he takes the field, he plays to win.  Do you think he would purposely drop a pass from Romo because of something Romo said about HIM?  No chance.  He's a competitor who consistently ranks in top of his position every year.  "I can't trust someone because of what they said off the field" is a poor excuse to hurt your team's chances of winning by not blocking for him or not throwing to him. 

#4 - Professional Sports is a business.  The goal of the organization is to win games, not worry about grown men's feelings.     
I really can't believe you're drawing comparisons to kids' leagues here.  Kid's aren't paid to win games and their coach's jobs aren't on the line if they lose.  I said it before, but you don't seem to be reading it, so I'll say it again.  I don't agree with Owen's comments and its not what I would do in his situation.  However, I agree with his right to say whatever he damn well wants, and I think the media does its very best to shape every word that leaves his mouth into some kind of controversy.

#5 - Refute what I say, but don't make things up.  When did I ever say that team chemistry isn't important?  Come on - that's about the same as me saying that you don't think level of talent counts for anything in the NFL.  Let's try to be honest here at the very least.  Why don't you address things like your comments that Owens bounces around the league despite the fact that he's only been on 3 teams?

What I'd really like to hear you explain is the process by which Owens is a cancer that destroys teams.  We have his stats - top 5 receiver in scoring and yards for how many seasons now?  So whatever else he is, we know that Owens produces on the field.  So if his detriment is limited to what he says off the field, that would seem to indicate that he's just hurting people's feelings and that in turn causes those around him to not play as well.  But he only seems to complain when his team is already playing poorly.  Maybe when someone's not doing their job as well as they should, they should be called out for it as a motivator to make them work harder.  How would anyone know they're not doing well in your fantasy world of never "being honest about your team?"

Jesse, I'm all for being nice - read the signature on my posts sometime.  I don't particularly like Owens as a person and I think he says a lot of dumb things that aren't helpful to anyone.  I guess I could subscribe to the clone mentality that he's a crappy person and we'd all be better off without him, but I just don't believe that.  He works hard, he produces on the field, and while his mouth churns out some pretty worthless stuff, most of it seems to stem from a desire to win games.  I'll take a competitor with a hard work ethic and a desire to win over Mr. Rogers any day of the week and twice on Sunday. 

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on January 15, 2009, 01:04 AM
#1 - Argue your own points

Without naming names, I've had some people agree with me privately...  But since you want to argue scemantics I'll take back "everyone", and say that several people here have agreed with me on this matter...  I'll add that I know several coaches at a number of levels that would agree with me too...  I think the experience counts for something at least.

As far as the Cowboys front office, I just read a Yahoo story not too long ago (End of the season maybe?) that some of the staff there are suggesting Owens' behavior has had a negative impact on the team and his name's being talked about as one to go...  I'm not going to dig up the link, it was on Yahoo if you want to, but I'm sure you don't care enough about this to look it up either.  This certainly lines up with his departure from San Fran and Philly in at least some similiarity.

I guess I didn't really intend to "insult" your experience with team sports, but rather call it into question since, as someone who's played and coached sports, I honestly just can't believe I'm hearing that someone is an advocate of criticizing your teammates publicly (I stress, "publicly"), and that this person claims experience with sports (especially in an adult capacity...  As I said, kids tend to be the ones to go to criticism of others immediately).

My point being...  You have a coaching staff, and it's the coaching staff's job (not players) to criticize teammates...  And even coaching staff RARELY (if ever) pull a public berating of their players.  I could count on one hand the number of times I've seen Michelle Therrien do it to a Penguin, for instance.  It mostly went against Ryan Whitney when it did happen...  But it wasn't Sidney Crosby, or Whitney's defensive pairing making the criticism...  Crosby's the team Captain, shouldn't he be saying "Whitney is not working hard, and that's a big reason we're not doing well", when these problems were occurring?  I don't know a single person who would agree with that thought, except maybe you Jman, but maybe I just don't know my friends or the people I've had experiences with in sports too well...  Maybe I"m wrong and you're right?  I don't know.

You want my argument though?  My point is that every experience I have personally had with sports is that you do not criticize your teammates publicly, and you let your coaches run the team.  You have humility, and respect, and you do your job.  The best teams I was on were the ones that had trust and caring about the guy next to him.  A couple people have expressed that they agreed with that to me, and that Owens is the kind of guy that takes that away from a team.  I know people (my past coaches, people I coached with, etc.) have the motto that you do not criticize, or you do not allow those under you to criticize as it's not healthy for the team...  Again, my experiences backing my point, but maybe they're the minority opinion then, I don't know.

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#2 - If you're going to refute a point and call it poor, offer an explanation why.
 

Press conferences are an example of the MEDIA digging for information, insight, and anything else they can get.  They're  not an example of a free-for-all soap box that players are (or should be) allowed to just stand on and get off their chest all their woes with their teammates and organization.  I agree with you that the media's motivation is not always positive (by a longshot...  "dirty laundry" and all that ****, and they love those mouthy players like Owens), and that they will latch onto anything negative.  That is for every player every week too though, not just Owens...  Owens earned his reputation because he gives the media that dirt though, and so you can't really sympathize for someone like that either.  I think eveyr player is under the microscope though, every week, for what they say.  But the key here is others either know when to stay quiet, or know when they have a chance to look like the bigger man.

I don't think press conferences and interviews are bad at all either, but I think many players realize that there is humility and tact they should have when talkign with the press, and that they have the chance to give insight into the game they played, and they also have the chance to slam their team (but most don't take that chance, and I think that's the right thing).  Case-in-point locally, Roethlisberger's known for taking the brunt of blame for the offense's performance any given week.  He's fast to say, "Yeah I was off on that..." or some other excuse.  He'll take the bullet...  Analysts are pretty vehement though that, besides Roethlisberger maybe holding the ball too long or having an off day now and then, the offensive-line needs to take a LOT of blame for the way the offense has performed for the Steelers in '08.

Now, should Ben come out and say, "Ya know if Starks would've picked up his guy, maybe I'd have stayed off my back more and gotten those completions we needed", or "Maybe if Parker were a little bigger we'd be a better 3rd or 4th and short team"?  That's been professional's opinions, but I think Roethlisberger (a professional, a hard worker, a competitor, and a team leader) does the responsible thing by being humble...  I also think he does more for his team by the things he says when he's asked.  I think that's every bit as important as the way he plays, and that it makes for a team that WANTS to play hard and is inspired.

I don't think Owens is a "cancer" because of the press, I think he is because of himself...  He has it within himself to address things privately he's concerned with.  He has it within himself to be an example setter instead of a blamer, and a public loud mouth who is quick to say, "this guy needed to do that better".  How often does he ever blame himself?  Doesn't seem often at all to me, but I'm open to quotes...  He was quick to blame the 49'ers, and Eagles players and staff though.  That's not cool to me.

Again though, I'm speaking from personal experience that you do not publicly criticize your teammates, or your coaches, if you don't agree.  It all comes back to humility, I guess, which some guys turn into a strength, and turn into inspiration for their teams.

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3 - Thanks for admitting that you're a poor team player.
 

This shows, to me, that you either haven't played on teams with "problems", or that you seriously misread me as a person.

I'll go back to my point though...  It's the guy next to you mentality.  Can you look at that guy and know he respects you, and that he trusts you?  Can you trust him to do his job too?  Can you count on him when the **** hits the fan?  I've gone over this point already but I'll go over it again.

It's not a case of where Owens is going to intentionally drop balls, or Romo's going to intentionally change a play because he doens't want to go to Owens...  The point is, when you've got guys on your own team calling you out publicly with no care about the team's cohesiveness, you start wondering if he's then half-assing it... 

You say to me, "Well you know eveyrone, and you know the Cowboys front office" etc., etc., right?  Do you know Owens, and that he isn't half-assing things?  I saw some pretty ****** dropped passes in that game against the Steelers at the end of the season, right into, and out of, his hands.  Do you know Owens so well personally that YOU know he's always a competitor, and that when he's pissed at his teammates that he's still giving his 100%?  I bet Romo doesn't always know that when he's just read that Owens chewed him out to a reporter.

I didn't infer that SHOULDN'T trust Owens, I inferred that Romo's trust in Owens may be shaken, when he can't even trust Owens to maybe take a little blame himself.  That Owens, and others on the team he criticizes, will start questioning a guy who questions them...  This is where the breakdown in team synergy starts, when a guy like Owens runs his mouth to the media about his team and the coaching staff.  I don't think Owens purposely drops a pass ever, but anyone who starts slacking because they're unhappy will drop passes because they are frustrated, angry, and don't feel the others are working like they are...  It's basically a snowball effect, and it does happen.



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#4 - Professional Sports is a business.
 

Again, you say I don't know anything about your personal experience with team sports, and I don't, but every level of football pushes the team mentality...  You win as a team, you lose as a team.  I don't know how to stress that, or teach that...  Watch some Inside the NFL on HBO or something?  I honestly don't know how to make anyone believe me on this though.

You say drawing the comparison to kids football is pointless basically, but I say it's important because that's where everyone starts...  That's where you're to learn this humility at its most basic level.  You say you don't agree with Owens' comments and you wouldn't necessarilly do the same thing in his place, but that you agree with his "right" to do it...

I say to you, that football's a business, I agree, and that the team's desire and NEED to win is tied to their cohesive structure of trust.  The team mentality, if lost, is going to impact the team's ability to win.  Maybe his ****** attitude and quickness to go public with his opinion, is a reason Owens hasn't won the big games all the time? 

The argument isn't about feelings also...  Romo didn't cry in his cornflakes over something Owens said.  It's about the team.  I can't stress it enough, and I obviously can't make my point understood either.  Nobody's "hurt", but people are questioning one another, and that's not good for the team or its ability to win.

You say it's his right, and you agree with "his right", and I say to you that this isn't a debate about his "rights".  This is a debate about what IS right, and whether or not his behavior impacts his teams negatively.  Everyone has a right to say what they want, that's just being American Jman, I'm with you there...  But I think Owens is irresponsible for doing so, and I think he's the kind of guy who hurts his team from the inside out.  He maybe isn't on the best team from the get-go, but he certainly isn't helping the situation by saying what he does in public. 

I agree the Media watches him, but like I said, they watch everyone...  Willie Parker was "the bad guy" just some weeks ago when he criticized the Steelers for the way he was being utilized.  He was snapped back into reality by the organization, and the Rooneys reportedly let him know his place...  He came out the following week humble with a big game, after there were threats of being benched for publicly criticizing the offensive coordinator and others.  That's the kind of team standard I like, but that's me.  I don't want an "Owens" type guy on my team becuase that's what I prefer I guess, and that's what I was taught growing up and what I've taught in turn.  I think some teams have regretted not being more in tune with that too.

But I totally agree, Owens has the right as a human being to say what he wants...  His employers have the right to snap his ass back to reality too, especially if he truly wants to retire in Dallas like he claimed a while ago.

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#5 - Refute what I say, but don't make things up.
 

I'll address the "Owens Bounces around the League" comment first...  I consider leaving 2 teams on bad terms, and possibly leaving a 3rd (rumors only though) that you claimed you wanted to retire with at one point, as the type of guy that is at least on the verge of bouncing around.  Poor choice of words?  Eh, maybe...  I think his career would've been less than 3 teams had he been a different guy though, who was a little tactful and humble, which I think is a reasonable thought at least. 

I mean, a guy of his caliber is often wanted to be locked up by a team, especially a skill position like receivers...  3 teams for a receiver that everyone should supposedly want based on his skill alone, is a good many teams...  Like I said about him, his skill alone should drive some team to want to lock him up long-term as an anchor player but teams have let him go because of the problems. 

My opinion that Owens is a cancer is an opinion...  I've seen a guy's bitching and moaning eat a team up inside, and ultimately they've been asked not to be on said team anymore, and the team turns things around...  Good players at their sport too, but not good enough to override their bitchy, prissy, attitude. 

Quoting Owens' past 5 year rating is fine, but what's he done with himself in those 5 years?  Sure he's done fine...  In Owens' mind he can do no wrong, so why shouldn't he?  But what's he accomplished otherwise?  I'm not saying he's the only problem though, of course...  I think some people would say he could've been a better leader, an inspirational player that others wanted to be around, and that he would've maybe done more in those last 5 years...  Maybe not though.  You have your opinion of him and I've got mine...  I think there's more to a guy than just skill at catching a ball, and I think that's what you look for in a player.  It's I guess just a difference of opinion.

People are let know when they're NOT doing well though, in my fantasy world and the real world alike, by the coaches...  Not the players.  You asked where people find out, and that's the answer.  You don't find out on the 11 o'clock news, that you need to try harder, because Terrel Owens told you so, via Joe Blow Sports Anchor in the locker room after the loss you're still smarting from.  You hear it from the coaches, who make it their job to make you a better player.   

And they're smart enough not to tell the media you sucked eggs too...  You'll find it out MOnday if it's the case.

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Jesse, I'm all for being nice - read the signature on my posts sometime.

You're missing my point right there...  It's not about being nice JMan, it's about being tactful, showing humility, being a leader as much off the field as on it, and by knowing your place as a PLAYER, that you're not there to tell everyone else how they're doing at their job...  You're there only to do your own job, trust that others do theirs, and trust that your coaches do theirs.  If you're not happy, you discuss it in private...  If they really don't cater to what you want changed, you move on then I guess, if that's how it must be.  Happens all the time I suppose.

Like you said though, it's a difference of opinion I guess...  Ultimately it shows the mentality of the league too...  Most teams I don't believe would take Owens if he came available honestly, unless desperate for a WR, and even then I think there's some teams who would look to a draft pick for their future.  Other teams throw caution to the wind and pick him up thinking he'll either be a good fit and be happy with what they have, or that they can "control" him maybe (I don't think any team can).

I guess it all ultimately boils down to I'd look for a different WR of any other route than taking a guy that's prone to criticizing teammates and causing drama, regardless of his skill level, as skill is not everything you need out of your team leaders.  At the same time you put more weight into the pure skill of the player, and would take the gamble that the things he says aren't that detrimental, and that his play ont he field makes him worth any potential risk from behavior...  Which seems to be the split that NFL teams have too.  That's fair enough I guess.  My friggin' Tea got cold writing this.  ;D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 15, 2009, 02:30 AM
Wow, I think I just won "Humilty/Trust" bingo after that post.   ;)  I don't know how many different ways you can say having humility and trust and not criticizing your team is important, but I think you found every last one.  What I'm asking for is a connection between statements like this "I've seen a guy's bitching and moaning eat a team up inside" and the actual process by which the team was utterly destroyed by someone's words. 

You seem to see a connection between not calling someone out for poor play and that person being able to "trust" you on the field.  Why can't you trust a guy's ability to play because he spoke poorly of your performance?  Can you not trust a pilot who bad-mouths his co-pilot to fly a plane without crashing?  What does what he says off the field have to do with his performance on the field?  If he doesn't catch the ball, then can see hesitating before you throw to him again.  If he says you should have thrown better passes after the game, then either address it verbally or ignore it, but why does that have any bearing on your trust in his ability to perform?

If Owens is such a cancer that no one can trust him, how can he possibly continue to rank in the top five of his position year after year after year?  Of course I don't know him personally - that's why I quote his stats as a hard fact of how he performs on the field.  I have read a few pieces on his work out routine - Here's one of many that took about 30 seconds to dig up, along with some quotes from people like his trainer. (http://www.curtisludlow.com/owens_plan_terrell_workout.html)  So he works hard, his stats show that he gets the job done, and he's relatively quiet until his team starts losing.  I'll ask again, given these facts, why wouldn't you trust that this type of person will continue to make plays regardless of what he says off the field? 

As for Owens and his humilty, try these on for size:

I was fined for missing a meeting and it was my fault. (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2006/08/28/owens-admits-fault-in-being-fined/)

Owens shows leadership, gives speech in the lockroom about the team not himself. (http://www.bloggingtheboys.com/story/2007/11/19/12139/608)

After achieving his 100th career TD catch, Owens criticized the Eagles for not recognizing his personal milestone.  This is a pretty major accomplishment and I'd think there would be some acknowledgement on most teams for this kind of achievement.  But just a day later, Owens ate the humble pie and apologized to the team:

"I've had an opportunity to talk with the Eagles organization and I have learned that the team does not recognize individual achievements," Owens said in a prepared statement. "It has been brought to my attention that I have offended the organization and my teammates. Therefore, I would like to apologize for any derogatory comments toward them."

And if you still want more, I think this guy (http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/NorthSider/2006/03/07/Bode_Miller_Terrell_Owens_Are_they_really_that_bad) sums things up pretty well. 

"Did Terrell Owens push it when he starting putting down McNabb?  When he got in a fight in the locker room?  Yes.  Have NFL players done worse things?  Yes.  Were they as publically hated?  No. " 



Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on January 15, 2009, 03:26 AM
I'll start off saying I think there's a ton of NFL'ers hated more than TO...  Vick's out of sight and out of mind I think, but he immediately comes into my mind.  TO gets the Barry Bonds award though, to give it a baseball analogy...  He's a guy that people just don't like because of the persona he puts on in public.  He's a guy who butts heads with teammates because he takes his grievances public, and he's a guy who has butted heads with 2 organizations and possibly a 3rd now because he doesn't hash out his problems with anyone in private.  But there's clearly guys in the NFL who no team would touch with a 10 foot polle, even if they got out of jail tomorrow. ;)

As far as witnessing a team fall apart because of team-turmoil, I guess you have to experience it maybe...  I can say the Penguins went through some of that though, in Jagr's last years here.  He was a pompous ass, and didn't care for being told what to do by his coaches...  The humble little Czech from the cup years had turned into a gambling, partying ******* who felt his talent surpassed the authority of the team's leadership from the bench.  Ultimately the organization wouldn't budge, and come contract time he was let go without negotiation rather than trying to keep him on as a center to rebuild the team because his attitude interfered with that process (training new, young, impressionable talent) even.  It lead to some of the worse years the Penguins faced too during his final years here and immediately thereafter.

I've experienced those kinds of guys on teams I played for though, and saw first-hand how they drag a team's positive energy away with them, and I've seen it from the coaches perspective too, both for kids and adults.  It's maybe something you just have to experience yourself...  I'd like to think "professionals" deal with things better, but I don't believe they do.  I think it is pretty much a constant regardless of what level you're at.

Why does "trust" become an issue though?  If you get criticized for anything, do you automatically look inward?  No anymosity, ever, you just accept that this person says you're not doing something right, and that he's doing everything right, and that you need to catch up to him.  That your'e the one to shoulder the blame on because he did everything he could, and you're just not up to his level.  There'd be no anymosity?  You'd not start analyzing him, his play, and saying "maybe he didn't stretch out for that ball enough...  Maybe he ran the wrong route, or didn't try hard enough to get open".  Doubt stems from that criticism.  You may look inward too, and self-doubt may creep in...

I think the guy who says, "Ya know I could've done a lot better today", is the guy who his teammates WANT to block for, and who they WANT to win with.  It's a purely mental thing, but I think it's human nature to have those thoughts when you know you've got one of your own saying you're the problem to the public, and not saying he could've worked harder too.  Doesnt' that alone say something about Owens' own work eithic?  That he feels he's apparantly maxed out his ability and the others need to catch up if they want to win because he's doing all he can?  I think it says a lot about a person's supposed "hard work".  I'm not saying he doesn't put his time in at practice, at camp, at watching films, or whatever, but more about his desire to lead rather than criticize...  They're just not the same thing.

I mean, you said yourself, "he's relatively quiet till his team starts losing"...  How does he help them then?  He decides to say it's everyone but himself that needs to step it up.  How much of that could anyone stand?  Some people probably can take a lot, others not so much, and others are gonna say he's just a selfish prick and they don't give a **** about the guy.

As far as his humility goes...

Owens gets fined for not showing up to a team meeting, he accepts responsibility for it.  He also makes a speech in the locker room without making it about himself.  That's great, but is it his norm?  I don't know honestly...  Is he the usual go-to guy to whip his team into a frenzy?  Both things seem, to me anyway, like things you shouldn't ask for a pat on the back for...  It's like Chris Rock's riff on people saying, "I take care of my kids!", like they want a medal or something for doing the responsible thing...  Owens is the leading receiver on his team...  He's to show leadership every day, and in every way...  That just doesn't include taking a dump on your teammates publicly...  Not to me at least, but I guess I'm seeing that some people think that's the way you motivate others.  You call them out publicly to step it up.

I sort of agree about the 100th TD thing, but hey if that's the organization's deal, that's it...  Odd rule but it's theirs.  And I've never said TO is a horrible person incapable of admitting he's wrong.  Clearly, he can at times...  Does he usually?  I doubt it, and I doubt he cares either.  Will he be as humble and apologize to his teammates in Dallas, and instead start talking with the coaches about how to change things for the better?  I guess he shouldn't have to, it's his right, and it's Dallas' right to put up with it because they think he's worth the "trouble", or it's their right to let him go because they see him as a negative influence on the team and their ability to perform.

I totally see why you think he's great though Jman, he's obviously a great player doing his job on the field...  I just see him as someone who could do so much more as a leader, as a teammate, and as an influence to those around him, and I'll just be thankful tonight that we've got depth at WR right now in Pittsburgh I guess.  Maybe he'll be migrating to one of the teams up North this year that are hurting in that position.


By the way, I'd add that I've read where Owens CAN prove himself a tremendous leader...  when he wants to.  And that he gets further by doing so.  I forget what it was on, but after the last game of Dallas' season I recall hearing Owens was one of the few guys on the field trying to keep his composure and get the offense fired up, and playing hard, despite the score and the D doing whatever the hell they did all game...  A rookie on the team even commented that his behavior in the huddle meant a lot to him as I recall, and that he was acting like a leader...  That Owens, if he could be that guy all the time, is the kind of guy that brings teams together, and creates bonds that make teams stronger.  If that guy was around more than the guy criticizing teammates, I think any team would want him to retire with them.  To me it's a shame that guy isn't around more often.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on January 16, 2009, 07:44 PM
Not to interrupt this awesome debate... but...

HOLY ******* ****, BUCS FIRE GRUDEN!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt on January 16, 2009, 08:42 PM
That's what happens when you go six seasons without winning a playoff game.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on January 16, 2009, 10:20 PM
Yeah but absolutely no one saw this coming.  The team went from some bad years to back-to-back winning seasons and everyone thought that if he was going to be fired it'd have been within a week of the regular season ending. 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on January 17, 2009, 12:26 AM
Some Bronco fans are saying the same thing about Shanahan.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on January 17, 2009, 03:04 PM
I was surprised about that one too.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on January 17, 2009, 06:12 PM
Crap! (http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80dc6b5a&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true)

I was hoping Steve Spagnuolo would stay with the Giants and take over for Coughlin.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on January 17, 2009, 07:01 PM
It was only a matter of time before he got a job and Coughlin has a few years grace period after the Superbowl.  They'd have had to promise him the job and pay him a crap load of money to get him to stay a coordinator for 3 or 4 more years.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on January 17, 2009, 11:45 PM
I was hoping they had a behind the scenes deal with him.  Oh well.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Neal on January 18, 2009, 06:24 PM
For those of you that are fans of the Arizona Cardinals, you can thank me later.  Apparently, my comment that the team wasn't "any good" got them fired up.
 ;)

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on January 18, 2009, 07:05 PM
What a game!  I saw the first half at work and thought Arizona was going to run away with it.  I got home and Philly regained the lead by 5 minutes into the 4th quarter!

Very exciting!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on January 18, 2009, 10:18 PM
Pittsburgh vs Arizona (who had that in the preseason?)

Should be a good game...I really won't care who wins but I'd prefer Pitt I guess
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt on January 18, 2009, 10:38 PM
I'm going for Arizona, just 'cause they haven't been there before.  (Sorry, JJ.)

But I wouldn't care too much if the Steelers win again.  Polamalu's a badass.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on January 18, 2009, 10:57 PM
Someone had to win that division, I guess.  They were 1-4 against the other playoff teams they played against this year, scored one more point than they gave up all season, and of their 9 wins, only 2 came against teams with winning records.  Yeah, they made the playoffs.  They still stink.  What are they going to do if they have to go into Philadelphia or New York and play in the cold weather?  Lose 47-7 again like they did against the Patriots?
It was nice to see them make the playoffs and host a game for the first time in over 60 years, but I don't see them coming out of the NFC.

Okay, please name another team that has swept their entire division in recent years and I think you'll find the cards in small, but good company.  My team of choice is in the pathetic NFC North and even there it's pretty difficult for any team to dominate the other three.  The Cards beat Miami (another playoff team) and only lost to the Panthers by 4.  As for the New England game, you are aware that they were coming off a major loss and had absolutely nothing to play for in that game, right? 

Philly has had some nice games, but only scored 7 against Baltimore and 3 against the Skins.  The Giants have been awful without Burress, losing games to Dallas, Philly, and the Vikes over the last month.  I don't see either team as being all that scary for the Cardinals.  I guess we'll see what happens next week - I just don't see how you can consider one of the final 8 teams to be "not good." 

Not to say I told you so, but I told you so. 

GO CARDINALS!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: P-Siddy on January 18, 2009, 11:19 PM
Well, Eagles just didn't do it. Oh well. I like both teams, more Pitt than the Cards, but Warner graduated from my alma mater...
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on January 19, 2009, 02:09 AM
You're damn right he's a badass...  Polamalu was playing not 100% as well but had a great game.

The Steelers were fantastic, and only in the 2nd half did they sorta lose a little control of the game, but regained it with phenomenal D.  I think that was one of the better games I've seen in a while, though the Philly/Arizona game wasn't bad either.

A couple people were predicting blowouts of the Ravens, and I knew better than that.  It was a real defensive battle all game long.  Smash-mouth football, and just brutal fun to watch.  2 weeks to rest up and the Steelers make a run for the 6-pack.

Here we go Steelers, here we go!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on January 19, 2009, 09:17 AM
Well, Eagles just didn't do it. Oh well. I like both teams, more Pitt than the Cards, but Warner graduated from my alma mater...

Small world.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: P-Siddy on January 19, 2009, 01:15 PM
Well, Eagles just didn't do it. Oh well. I like both teams, more Pitt than the Cards, but Warner graduated from my alma mater...

Small world.

Orignally from W'loo... your neck of the woods  ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: ruiner on January 19, 2009, 01:27 PM
Kurt Warner draws God (or Jesus). (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MiFybqLFeY)

Bump in honor of the Cardinals win.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt on January 19, 2009, 02:34 PM
The three hours he spent shading Jesus' upper lip were mercifully edited out of the clip shown.

Bump in honor of the previous bump.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: CHEWIE on January 20, 2009, 02:31 AM
Kurt Warner draws God (or Jesus). (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MiFybqLFeY)

Bump in honor of the Cardinals win.

Awesome stuff... been a Warner fan since his Rams days, and have been hoping that someday he's get a chance to shine again.  Can't believe what a ride it's been in his career, coming out of nowhere to be a 2-time MVP and Superbowl champion, to injuries, riding the bench, being brought in to mentor young QBs, and now back in the Superbowl!  Awesome.  Can't write much of a better Hollywood script for this guy's career, unless of course he wins in Arizona, the laughing stock of the league for decades.

Amazing what good receivers and a good offensive line can do for a guy like this... and adding back in sense of a balanced running game doesn't hurt either.   :)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on January 31, 2009, 12:12 PM
For the record: 

Steelers 27, Cards 24.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on February 1, 2009, 12:22 AM
Steelers 34 Cards 21
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Ryan on February 1, 2009, 01:13 AM
I had a dream Pitt won last night but I've got pull for AZ...

Cards 21 - Steelers 17
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on February 1, 2009, 05:11 AM
Not sure if they'll pull it off, but I'm rooting for the Cardinals.  Nothing against the Steelers, but it's fun to root for the underdog.   :D
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on February 1, 2009, 09:10 AM
Cardinals 31  Pittsburgh 24

End of story.   ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Theo Zissou on February 1, 2009, 02:00 PM
Rolling with the cards in the big game today. Gonna be a big day in front of the tv. watching all the pregame stuff, the game, then the office :)

cards 27 steelers 24
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jeff on February 1, 2009, 10:25 PM
Steelers 27, Cards 24.

:o

I really didn't care who won, I just wanted a good game...  after the 100yd INT TD to end the first half, I was worried that would be the death blow to the Cards morale.  Guess not!  They stuck with it and made it one heck of a 4th quarter.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Theo Zissou on February 1, 2009, 10:36 PM
the fitz touchdown is what had me jump up. After the 100 yd int return at the half it looked pretty bad. Toward the end of of the 3rd quarter it looked like it was all steelers. The end of the game really made it a great game. The safety, The big Fitz TD, then the responding holmes game winner. Just as exciting as last year.

I called the score, just had the cards on top.

Well seasons over. everyones 0-0 New bronc's coach, hopefully a new defense. Here's to the bronc's next season :)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on February 1, 2009, 11:00 PM
Steelers 27, Cards 24.

:o

I really didn't care who won, I just wanted a good game...  after the 100yd INT TD to end the first half, I was worried that would be the death blow to the Cards morale.  Guess not!  They stuck with it and made it one heck of a 4th quarter.

Yeah, couldn't be much closer on my guess!  ;D

I was rooting Cards, but like you mostly wanted a good game.  It was better than advertised.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on February 1, 2009, 11:12 PM
I'm glad to see all the Steelers haters denied. :)

They got love for this game from everyone, but pretty much only this game...  So as a Steelers fan, I always feel like an underdog anymore (to the point I hate watching games and would rather listen to the local announcers call it on the radio).  This one was for Myron Cope givin' the big Yoi! up in the sky.  Here we go Steelers, Here we go! ;D  I just had to post about this, I'm so excited.

And as a football fan that was an outstanding game...  Fitzgerald's TD was incredible.  As a Steelers fan I'd have preferred a boring blowout on our part, rather than staying up way later than I should be watching the game and now some celebration footage after (Oakland and the South Side are simply insane).  When I left my gf's place I have to drive through a street on my way home that has about 4 little local dives on it...  All 4 had huge crowds spilling out into the street with Terrible Towels.   What a sight...  This is even better than the win a few years ago.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on February 1, 2009, 11:16 PM
It may not have made a difference, but I think that was a bad call at the end of the game.  It should've been ruled an incomplete pass.  I doubt the Cardinals could pull anything off with only 5 seconds left, but still.

It was an exciting game and a fun one to watch.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Scott on February 2, 2009, 12:46 AM
No way...that was totally an empty hand and I think it was right.  But I still could not believe they didn't review it.  Santonios TD was just as amazing as Tyree's catch last year.  Great game, I'm glad the Steelers won :)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on February 2, 2009, 06:38 AM
The whole game was decided on the Harrison TD at the end of the first half...  If the Cardinals just manage a FG there, they win. Hell, if Fitzgerald just makes the tackle at the half inch line they'd have won.

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Darth_Anton on February 2, 2009, 09:26 AM
We had a blast watching the game. I thought the game was wrapped up in the first quarter, but glad I was wrong.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on February 2, 2009, 11:17 AM
The whole game was decided on the Harrison TD at the end of the first half...  If the Cardinals just manage a FG there, they win. Hell, if Fitzgerald just makes the tackle at the half inch line they'd have won.



Actually because of the 15 yard personal foul on Arizona on the play, the Steelers would have got half the distance to the goal and the half can't end on a defensive penalty so they Steelers would have had one play to score from the foot line. So it wasn't quite as simple as "if Fitzgerald just makes the tackle".
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Rob on February 2, 2009, 11:50 AM
Was that penalty before or after the change of possession?  I don't remember Madden and Michaels mentioning that.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on February 2, 2009, 11:53 AM
Was that penalty before or after the change of possession?  I don't remember Madden and Michaels mentioning that.

It was after the change. On "Mike and Mike In the Morning" on ESPN they had someone from the Refs office officially state that.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on February 2, 2009, 05:09 PM
Yeah there's already some griping over Holmes' catch...  I don't know why though really.  This is like the ball crossing the plain thing...  His toes dragged, both were down (the right ones were even bent from the turf), so that's a catch baby! ;D

It was pretty nuts and I had to get up early so I rushed home from my gf's place to go to bed.  I missed most of the commotion on the news.  Nothing major went on, some small fires set to couches and stuff in Oakland where all the colleges are...  A group of kids there got arrested for attempting to turn a car over, but beyond that nothing really happened.  They shut off streets at strategic points all over the city to control chaos.

It was pretty neat though and orderly as the celebrating went on.  Now they're gonna do something for when the team's back but I'm hearing budget issues may keep any "celebration" to a minimum.

Still, fantastic game, and while it wasn't the margin of victory I hoped for, it made a fantastic game.  The three top plays of the game were Fitz's splitting the field, Harrison's TD, and of course the final drive by the Steelers.  That proved Roethlisberger's greatness IMO...  He gets a lotta **** around the league, but that drive defined him IMO, and Holmes just shined as a star WR at the end.

As a fan, I'm just giddy right now. :)  And now that I'm home I can actually watch the celebratingfrom last night and watch the news and things.  Yay.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on February 2, 2009, 10:49 PM
It may not have made a difference, but I think that was a bad call at the end of the game.  It should've been ruled an incomplete pass.  I doubt the Cardinals could pull anything off with only 5 seconds left, but still.

It was an exciting game and a fun one to watch.

AMEN.  I'm not going to rant over the officiating...well, yes I am.  I think the Cards got a raw deal between the Harrison TD at the end of the first half and the Warner "fumble" at the end of the game.  They sure took their sweet time making sure Harrison's TD was legit, but the angle on the TV looked to me like his knee was down before crossing the line.  It also looked to me like Warner's arm was moving forward on that last play, but no review at all?  For something that close at the end of the biggest game of the year? 

Anyone can say that the Steelers would have gotten another play and scored at the end of the half anyway (despite a number of strong Arizona goal line stands) and likewise, maybe the Cardinals wouldn't have done anything with one more play and 5 seconds on the clock, but who knows?  Maybe I'm biased because I wanted the Cards to win, but a little more even play calling would have been nice.  All in all, at least it was a really close, exciting finish.

Put all that aside though - the real injustice in the game was the call on that classless thug Harrison.  Shoving a guy, holding him down, clearly punching him in the back, shoving him down with a hit to the throat, then shoving him down AGAIN.  Madden was right - he should have been ejected.  Instead the Steelers get penalized what, a yard?  Say what you want about guys like C. Johnson, T. Owens, or R. Moss - I'd rather have a dozen guys like that on my team before I'd take a dirty cheating piece of **** like Harrison. 

Congratulations to the Pittsburgh Stealers.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: P-Siddy on February 2, 2009, 11:25 PM
I have a question about some rules that I think are inconsistent with the NFL. I'd like to hear some thoughts as to what you all think and maybe I'll understand it better. The 3 scenarios all have to do with ball/feet in regards to the endzone (yes, one of these will have the example of the Steelers/Ravens game).

1. Two feet need to be inbounds in the endzone for a complete pass for six points (I can agree with that). Yet, does the ball (arms extended) have to be inbounds?
2. The ball must break the plane of the endzone to score six points. Okay, but what if the players feet and 95% of his body are in the endzone, but with arms extended to where the ball doesn't break the plane?
3. During a punt, the kicking team tries to down the ball at the one yardline. While trying to do so, a players body is in the endzone while in contact with the ball, hence a touchback... So if his feet are in the endzone, but the ball hasn't broken the plane, it's still a touchback, yet if it were him trying to score, it isn't a touchdown??

These are a bit confusing to me.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on February 3, 2009, 12:08 AM
Wow, spoken like a bitter Seahawks fan if I didn't know better. ;)

Nothing was stolen...  Holmes' feet were in bounds, Warner's arm hadn't moved forward, and only did so after the ball was knocked loose, blah blah blah...  I'm not going to argue the points because I think bias is in all of them to either side.  Harrison's hits were dumb, without a doubt...  I dunnoa bout ejection-worthy though.  Did you see the scrums throughout the game?  Did you see guys hitting people who came off the field into their sidelines?  I did...  I didn't complain about it.  This was a chippy and ugly game, and that's on BOTH sides.  I think the officials took that into account and didn't want to decide the game by tossing a player out on either side.  I think there were times the refs did let that stuff get out of hand. 

He got a penalty...  We were in such **** field position at that point, it didn't matter, but that's the rule.  A guy ran our holder over without even remotely trying to stop, and even pushed him down as he went over him....  That was pretty blatantly ugly...  He got a penalty for that too, and I considered it a pretty equally dick maneuver.

Did Harrison "cheat"?  I don't think that's fair in the slightest...  Pummeling someone isn't cheating, it's unsportsmanlike, but not "cheating".  It's football in a game where hard-nosed football was taking a spotlight.  Like I said, scrums were getting out of hand all over the place with pushing, punching, and other stuff...  That's football to me though I guess...  I see that every year in the NFL.  At the end of the day Harrison's a leader on his team, an inspiration to the men he takes the field with, and he helps make a winner with his intensity...  I'll change my tune on him when he starts making a spectacle of himself and bad mouthing his coaches, his owners, his teammates, and his city/fans. ;)  Yes, my stance hasn't changed on TO and that argument.

Vlad, to your Q's...

The way I understand it, the ball must break the plane (Not cross it completely, where there's confusion I think) if it's being carried into the endzone...  If it's being passed to a player in the endzone already, he must have control of the ball and both feet must touch inside the endzone.

In your second scenario you're saying like a running back is taking it into the endzone backwards and for whatever reason his arms are extended OUTSIDE the endzone, right?  Like he's going into the endzone ass first...  I'm not sure if they don't consider that a possibility, or if they just would review it and the same rule would apply that the ball would have to break the plane, rather than the player's whole body be inside the endzone with control (IE: It goes to the "receiver" rule). 

Anyway, where I felt the officiating failed in the game was with holding...  The officials were 50/50 with calling it, and that hampers how the game ultimately gets played by the players.  It sends mixed signals when you're calling one little hold here, and missing a big one there.  That was overall too, not just for/against the Steelers or Cards...  It really was bad calls on the "little" stuff that sets the pace of the game.  I would prefer a game be called the way it's meant to be and I don't dig "putting the whistles away".  There was some of that, but when you thought  that was the way it was going to be, you'd see blatant holds on the replays that there's no way the refs missed them all.  Eh, whatever though.

I'm just ecstatic to be a Steeler fan with a championship team again.  I went most of my life never (remembering anyway) a Steeler championship, and now I've seen two pretty close together, and with some really insanely great players too...  I feel blessed considering how bad things were for most of my childhood watching them.  I thought they were going to have an uphill climb this season too, and they did, but they really turned out to be a special group of players, and Tomlin just kicks much ass as a coach.  I love his demeanor on and off the field.  I'm not venturing down to the parade tomorrow, it's gonna be nuts I'm sure, but man I bet it'll be fun! :)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on February 3, 2009, 08:43 AM
First I want to say I didn't care who won the Super Bowl. I was glad it was a good game.

Second..... THE STEELERS WON THE GAME AND ARE THE CHAMPIONS.

The refs didn't blow it for the Cardinals. The Cardinals didn't get a raw deal. All the touchdowns were touchdowns. People's feet were down, Harrison was in, whether Harrison is cheap or not didn't affect the game, the Warnere fumbles/incomplete passes were too close to say they were wrong either way.

The Steelers have 6 championships and the Cardinals have none and that isn't going to change nor should it.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on February 3, 2009, 04:35 PM
(http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20090203/capt.7e15b990bfb54ba1b0679e62d7d98447.super_bowl_victory_parade_steelers_football_paks113.jpg?x=400&y=311&q=85&sig=_xjJsWj555Femiwj7q_GqA--)

These pics were on Yahoo! today for the big parade downtown. (http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/Pittsburgh-Steelers-Victory-Parade/ss/events/sp/020309superbparade)  They estimated 350,000 to 450,000 people went downtown for the parade today too.  For Pittsburgh that's a pretty insane ammount of people to pack into downtown...  Harrison cruised down the parade route with the trophy.  Pollamalu crowd surfed.  Fantastic day, and it snowed in true Pittsburgh football fashion to boot. ;D

I took my terrible towel to work on Saturday and hooked it on my left window while I did the route.  Got a couple honks and cheers, haha.

By the way, I love Casey Hampton...

(http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/nm/20090203/2009_02_03t153559_450x391_us_nfl_steelers_parade.jpg?x=397&y=345&q=85&sig=fQ5y_oZlb8GfnXKfAWcKMQ--)

This guy came to camp all fat and out of shape, and sad...  And he winds up a Super Bowl champ being all fat and stuff, but man he can clog all the running lanes up the middle.  Fantastic!  :)  He's funny too...

They asked the Steelers their favorite Christmas Memory back during the holidays, and Hampton said he remembered how every year he got a new bike, and every year his bike got stolen the next week.  The reporter said, "that seems like a bad memory though", and Hampton said Christmas was great, you got a bike...  It was the week after that sucked. 

Great story.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on February 3, 2009, 11:48 PM
First I want to say I didn't care who won the Super Bowl. I was glad it was a good game.

Second..... THE STEELERS WON THE GAME AND ARE THE CHAMPIONS.

Agree.

The refs didn't blow it for the Cardinals. The Cardinals didn't get a raw deal. All the touchdowns were touchdowns. People's feet were down, Harrison was in, whether Harrison is cheap or not didn't affect the game, the Warnere fumbles/incomplete passes were too close to say they were wrong either way.

Don't agree.

Just because it's in the record books doesn't mean it was right.  There's a lot of chatter online that Harrison's cheap shot happened before any Cardinals touched the punt, which means that penalty should have given the Cardinals a first down.  Should this call and the interception return and the incomplete pass all have gone against the Cardinals if they were "too close to say they were wrong either way?"  If that's really what you think, then the refs did blow it for the Cardinals because they could have just as easily called any one of these in Arizona's favor and we'd likely have a different SB champ right now.

I get that it's all said and done and not going to change, but that doesn't mean it's right.  Just like Harrison's behavior wasn't right.  JJ - you can talk all you want about other fights on the field - do a quick search on google or youtube and you'll find Harrison's beat down far outweighs anything else that happened in that game.  Find me anything else comparable to that play on the Cardinals behalf... :-\
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on February 4, 2009, 12:44 AM
Like I said...  They ran our snap holder over.  It was an equally dickhole move, plus it could've hurt someone.  The guy even pushed him into the turf on his way over top of him, complete bull****.  Could it not be that, because they focused on Harrison on TV and Madden even added his own comments on the matter though, that that is possibly why google and youtube anti-Steelers fans are focusing on that?  When our snap holder got run down, all it got was, "oh yeah that was bad" remark (general paraphrase) from the commentators, but it was no less intentional and ugly.

It is what it is though...  Like I said, I felt the holding calls were the worse thing all night, and that went both ways.  I saw holding called on both teams, and I saw it ignored on both teams, and holding more directly impacts the game play itself.  But it didn't all get called...  A lot of Steelers fans thought Ben's called back TD was legit and we didn't get it...  I thought it was, then I wasn't sure...  it was close too, and it got called Arizona's way...  Isn't that the way the game goes?  The post-game bitch-fest seems equally to go with the game anymore too, every year.  Oh well.

Anyway though, the celebration in the city continues all week...  Casey Hampton rented out a club and everyone was invited to come party with the Steelers tonight.  If I had the time I think I'd have gone just for the experience of hanging at the club with them being actually somewhat accessible...  I've been out where they go before and talked with some players but generally they're not available.  Now they're wanting to just hang with the crowd and that's cool.  I guess more is going on all week but I doubt I get down to anything.

This is a way cooler win than 40 for some reason, and just feels more like the city is excited on a whole new level.  Maybe it's the bad times we're in economically (though Pitt's largely been spared) and people are just enjoying it that much more?  It's been fun to celebrate though and just have fun enjoying the moment.  It makes ya appreciate the good times.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt_Fury on February 4, 2009, 03:03 AM
I don't think it was an equivalent thing Jesse.  Not saying it should not have been a penalty, but I think forward momentum had a lot to do with him hitting the ball holder.

Same with the ruffing the passer call when that one guy hit Rothlesberger...momentum took him into the QB, it gets called as a penalty, but it's not like the guy can stop his momentum like that.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on February 4, 2009, 08:42 AM

Don't agree.

Just because it's in the record books doesn't mean it was right.  There's a lot of chatter online that Harrison's cheap shot happened before any Cardinals touched the punt, which means that penalty should have given the Cardinals a first down.  Should this call and the interception return and the incomplete pass all have gone against the Cardinals if they were "too close to say they were wrong either way?"  If that's really what you think, then the refs did blow it for the Cardinals because they could have just as easily called any one of these in Arizona's favor and we'd likely have a different SB champ right now.

There is a HUGE difference between the refs blowing it for the team and the calls not going their way. I'm done with this arguement. I don't really care who won and the Steelers did. I get so sick of there never being a sporting event where someone who wanted one team to win blaming it on the refs that they didn't. There is a difference between totally blowing a call and maybe missing it and if you go back and look at that in every game you can maybe change the outcome in a lot of them.

Finally....... GO PATRIOTS VS. VIKINGS SUPER BOWL NEXT YEAR!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on February 4, 2009, 12:43 PM
GO PATRIOTS VS. VIKINGS SUPER BOWL NEXT YEAR!!!!!!!!!

A Patriot and Vikings fan - no wonder you don't want to talk any more about football!   ;)

Like I said before, my real issue with the game was Harrison's behavior.  I don't buy the argument that there was anything similar on anyone else's behalf in that game.  It's a rough sport and people get hurt, but that was an intentional beat down unlike anything else I saw from any team all year.  The excuse that similar things were happening all over and the TV just didn't catch it doesn't fly with me.  As long as Harrison is on that team, the only difference between the Steelers and the Raiders is a few shiny cups in the trophy case.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on February 4, 2009, 12:46 PM
I agree on the Roethlisberger call Matt, and like I said I think the whole Roughing the Passer penalty is wishy washy.  The Steelers got burned all season long on those penalties, and I'd say 75% of them were pure bull**** where a passer got tapped, didn't fall or barely moved, and there was a huge penalty for it.  I think it's a bad rule that needs some looking at and changing.

The roughing the place holder though, the guy didn't make an effort to stop, at all.  Momentum had 0 to do with it when he didn't make any effort and was well away from the ball being kicked.  That, is just unsportsmanlike play...  I went to Youtube to see what all the commotion was about.  THere was lone post of the Harrison bitch slap, and 50% of the people said he was a jerk, and 50% of the people said the guy he was slapping was chop blocking him and lifted his arm up into his crotch at the 1:09 mark (equally dickhole move, I think it was hard to tell that though but his arm did go up some).  Few, if anyone, said he actually deserved to get thrown out.  Even people who felt it was bad, didn't say he needed thrown out.  ;D  Hardly a "big stink" was being made...  Harrison got his penalty, it got assessed but thanks to the awesome special teams that Arizona sent down field they negated it basically.  To me, the play was 100% spot-on to what it needed to be, just like the rest of the game.

I still say the roughing the holder call was just as bad, but it didn't deserve anyone being thrown out, not at all.  It deserved the penalty it got though, just like Harrison's.  The roughing the holder call though was made worse not by the fact he made contact, but by the fact he pushed the guy down into the ground as he went over him without making any effort to stop.  That's where it became a blatant foul and pretty classless move.

As far as things happening "all ove rthe field", even Michaels and Madden said, "the game's getting very chippy"...  Listen to your own Youtube example Justin, hah!  They even acknowledged that this was getting out of hand, that's why they said that.  Whatever though dude, I somehow get the sneaking suspicion that you would've made this argument even if the game was called beautifully 100% and there wasn't a gripe on the field, so don't worry, I'm not taking much serious here. ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: CHEWIE on February 4, 2009, 01:12 PM
The whole game was decided on the Harrison TD at the end of the first half...  If the Cardinals just manage a FG there, they win. Hell, if Fitzgerald just makes the tackle at the half inch line they'd have won.



Yep, and a damn great game that could have gone either way.  Very entertaining. 

The end result was a letdown for me, but I still really enjoyed it and was happy that Arizona proved they could play with anyone and gave the Steelers as tough of a time as one could. 
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on February 4, 2009, 06:04 PM
I agree on the Roethlisberger call Matt, and like I said I think the whole Roughing the Passer penalty is wishy washy.  The Steelers got burned all season long on those penalties, and I'd say 75% of them were pure bull**** where a passer got tapped, didn't fall or barely moved, and there was a huge penalty for it.  I think it's a bad rule that needs some looking at and changing.

The roughing the place holder though, the guy didn't make an effort to stop, at all.  Momentum had 0 to do with it when he didn't make any effort and was well away from the ball being kicked.  That, is just unsportsmanlike play...  I went to Youtube to see what all the commotion was about.  THere was lone post of the Harrison bitch slap, and 50% of the people said he was a jerk, and 50% of the people said the guy he was slapping was chop blocking him and lifted his arm up into his crotch at the 1:09 mark (equally dickhole move, I think it was hard to tell that though but his arm did go up some).  Few, if anyone, said he actually deserved to get thrown out.  Even people who felt it was bad, didn't say he needed thrown out.  ;D  Hardly a "big stink" was being made...  Harrison got his penalty, it got assessed but thanks to the awesome special teams that Arizona sent down field they negated it basically.  To me, the play was 100% spot-on to what it needed to be, just like the rest of the game.

I still say the roughing the holder call was just as bad, but it didn't deserve anyone being thrown out, not at all.  It deserved the penalty it got though, just like Harrison's.  The roughing the holder call though was made worse not by the fact he made contact, but by the fact he pushed the guy down into the ground as he went over him without making any effort to stop.  That's where it became a blatant foul and pretty classless move.

As far as things happening "all ove rthe field", even Michaels and Madden said, "the game's getting very chippy"...  Listen to your own Youtube example Justin, hah!  They even acknowledged that this was getting out of hand, that's why they said that.  Whatever though dude, I somehow get the sneaking suspicion that you would've made this argument even if the game was called beautifully 100% and there wasn't a gripe on the field, so don't worry, I'm not taking much serious here. ;)

Okay be serious.  Do a search on Youtube for Harrison Super Bowl and tell me what you find.  The #1 response is this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AIF_ucHzbIk

The guys who comment on Youtube videos are mostly idiots, but they also mostly agree that this was a dirty play.  I couldn't find anything on the place holder, but if you have video showing that a cardinal purposely attacked a Steeler in the game similar to this, I would love to see it.  If not, stop bringing up a play that no one recalls or seems to agree with.  M&M saying the game is getting "chippy" is not evidence that Cardinals plays were punching other players in the kidneys.  Get real.  Watch the video of Harrison again and tell me that you don't think he should have been thrown out.  Then go back and read your comments about the importance of behaving morally in team sports and tell me how you wouldn't dare have Owens on your team, but Harrison is okay.

We're not talking about how the refs called any other game than the super bowl, so what's your point about 75% of calls in the regular season?  That has no bearing on the point of the discussion and your 75% estimate is ridiculously subjective anyway.  Just like your 50% YouTube assessment of responses.  Don't throw stats around if you can't back them up because that's just flat out lying. 

And if you've read any of my posts, you'd know that I would have been just fine with the refs calls if they had been more even.  Heck, if Harrison had been thrown out and they actually took the time to review Warner's forward pass, and the Steelers still won, I'd be singing their praises.  Being a Packer fan, I think I'm a little more objective about the results than you might be, but that's just my guess.   ;)  On the flip side, I seriously doubt that you would have rolled over and said "Oh well, good game Cardinals. Well played" if the situation was completely reversed.  ;)


Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Matt on February 4, 2009, 09:31 PM
(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/2079/003pi7gy6.jpg)

Congrats, Jesse!
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Morgbug on February 4, 2009, 10:20 PM
Hooked on phonics taken way too far.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on February 5, 2009, 12:09 AM
Oh, if you only knew Fayette County like I know Fayette County!  ;D  Sadly, they've had way too many hillbillies creep in...  But their Fayette County Fair is insane for the Funnel Cakes and Tilt-O-Whirl.  To the credit of the guy that posted the message, he got the Roman numerals right...  Color me somewhat impressed because they really are in an area I wouldn't be happy to be living in.

OK...

So, Justin's link is exactly the link I was talking about that I saw (and read the comments for the first couple pages...  I think I read through Page 3).  I see one other link in the first page though if I searched using your criteria....  The rest of the posts were mostly attributed to the 100 yard runback.  I hardly call the two posts that came up in that first page "hysteria" over the Harrison unsportsmanlike.

So, I looked at the responses for the first couple pages.  There's arguing for both sides like I said...  Don't take my percentages literally, and try to have some "fun" with the conversation because really it's not like I'm taking this seriously...   We're out of the "Pit", so it's ok...  I like to hope that the desire for concrete numbers is something we can leave in the political part of the board...  I looked at the comments and there's plenty for both sides, and plenty of seemingly valid arguments for both (Harrison was a thug on the play, Harrison didn't use closed fists, Harrison was acting like a dick, Harrison was maybe chop blocked or forearmed in the groin, etc.).

But I'll also say that I won't take anyone' s argument on Youtube as gospel either, regardless what direction it's slanted.  It's no different than someone's argument here, as far as I'm concerned.

One guy on there said Harrison used open-hands pushing his opponent the whole time behind the play, and that a closed fist (which you've implied I think, by claiming "punches") was never used.  The same person said that's not ejection-worthy too I believe...  Maybe that's the right assessment then?  I'll take his word as quickly as I'd take any other random schlub on Youtube's opinion Justin, that's all.  I don't think he's necessarilly right, but he's seemingly putting some kind of argument for Harrison together.

Anyway though, the point stands that a lot of people are arguing for the Steelers over that YT clip, and a lot of people aren't.  I don't consider that a mass concensus on Youtube that Arizona got cheated over that incident like you do, but whatever man.  Personally, I'm letting this argument over the officiating go now because it's lost its charm if it ever had any.  I just wanted to point out that while my percentages certainly weren't rooted in any hard facts, neither were your summaries of the Youtube clip being some huge public outrage over Harrison's behavior.  It looked even to me, but maybe I just needed to read through another 3 to 30 pages of anonymous posting on Youtube to see where the slant towards Arizona's POV was?  I dunno.

I just wanted to say too that if you don't believe the roughing the holder penalty happened, just look to Matt_Fury's acknowledgement of the play, or search Youtube (the apparant final word in what did or didn't happen in the NFL any given week) for the footage.  It happened, not sure why you're questioning its existance.  It was a fairly large penalty at the time as I recall.

Something I would like to address though about an earlier argument, where you said I debated "morality" in the NFL...  I'm talking about being part of a team, and being a leader...  not morality (nor do I recall using the term "morality" to define a good teammate/leader).  Morality is not fighting dogs and carrying an illegal firearm.  Being an ******* isn't immoral though, it's dumb.  There's a complete difference, and TO's an *******, but I've never seen him be immoral by committing a crime...  They can both have similar impacts on a team though, if at least being nothing more than negativity and drama that harms the team...  Morality has nothing to do with being a good teammate and leader on your team though, though I do think if you're an "immoral" person you're probably not going to inspire many folks around you...  regardless though, I wasn't mixing morality with being a good teammate and leader in my past argument we had though.  Not sure why you even brought that up other than I guess you're not over that argument like I was.

I just wanted to say too, that my "75%" comment was to Matt, and it was about a pretty separate topic all together...  It wasn't bringing up the regular season to argue the Harrison pummelling.  It was discussing the "Roughing the _____" rules against roughing "defenseless" players in the league like kickers, holders, and QB's, as the league defines them.  I find the rule flawed, that's all.  I'm not sure why you latched onto that since it wasn't directed to the discussion you and I were really having, nor was it really anything important.  Plus I was agreeing with Matt that I felt the roughing the passer call against AZ was a wishy washy call, as they are quite often throughout the rest of the season.

Anyway though, I'm going back to enjoying the Super Bowl...  The rest of you guys have fun if you want to debate this further.  I think it's a shame that, every year after a Super Bowl, this is what "fans" of the game are reduced to regardless of the outcome and who was involved...  It's every reason I look at sports forums kind of like political ones.

As bad as the reffing is to some folks around here though, they don't realize how bad it can be...  The NHL's ten times worse.  The NFL has them beat by a pretty large margin in my view.

I still maintain the holding penalties were a far worse issue in this SUper Bowl, but I guess those aren't that big a deal to some.  Those were out of control I thought, as you could see some on almost every replay it seemed.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on February 5, 2009, 12:52 AM
You didn't answer the question.  Do you think what Harrison did was acceptable or not? 

Jesse, I don't think youtube is a definitive answer for what happens in the NFL. You're the one who keeps quoting the morons that comment on the video.  You say you won't take anyone's argument as gospel, but nearly every post you've made on this refers to the posts of people on YT.  I don't know any of those folks from Adam, but none of them sound very intelligent.  Example: "Steelers and their fans are PUNK BITCHES! and dirty hoes as well!"  Do you really think it's worth using these responses as part of an argument?  I don't.

I posted the video as visual evidence for yourself or anyone else on here who wants to view the play and judge for themselves.  If you want more videos of that play, look at the related videos off to the right after that video plays - there are way more than just two vids.  There were 25 of them listed when I looked, and that's just YT locating similar vids on it's own. 

I did search for the play you mentioned and couldn't turn up anything.  That's why I asked you to provide info on it, which you're obviously unable to do.  The one guy who confirmed it also said it looked like an accident - not very compelling evidence my friend.   I don't need exact figures, but you can't throw around percentages without some truth behind them and expect to be taken seriously.  I know that 86% of the people here agree with that.   ;)

As for the reference to our disagreement on Owens, I'm simply bringing that up as a reference point for your position on Harrison.  You can call it team play or morality or leadership or teen spirit - I don't care what semantics you want to use.  The point is that you took a strong position against a guy for the words he says and called him locker room cancer, but you seem to have no problem with someone who punches a guy, holds him down, then violently shoves him to the ground multiple times.  I guess I just don't understand your value system.  Personally, I'd rather have a guy on my team who shoots his mouth off once in a while versus a guy who attacks others physically because he can't control his aggression, but I guess we just don't see eye to eye on it.  Regardless, I didn't mean to open up old wounds and hope you can see why I thought your earlier view is relevant.

Lastly, I'm just going to go on record in saying that I rarely ever have comments about the reffing regardless of whether my team won or lost.  I think those guys have a tough job and don't doubt that they're doing better than what I could do.  I bring it up in the context of this game however because so many calls were so close and between so many toss up calls going in favor of the Steelers and them not even reviewing the Warner "fumble" at the end it sure seemed like there was potential for bias.  Like I said before, flip the situation around and I have no doubt that you'd be singing a very different tune about the calls.

C'est la vie
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on February 5, 2009, 12:54 AM
And in the spirit of moving on, here's a great slogan.   ;D

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff43/jman5544/imgad.jpg)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on February 5, 2009, 01:55 AM
I thought you cited the Youtube and Google searches as "A lot of chatter online" in favor of your case...  I was simply saying that "chatter" you cited was equally in favor of the Steelers it seemed.  Youtube videos seemed to indicate that.  That's all I cited...  You brought up the sources, not me, and you brought them up as evidence of "chatter" that the Steelers were wrong...  I don't think that's a misinterpretation of your intent.

I didn't cite anyone's opinion on Youtube as the definitive answer either...  Actually I was quite careful to say I don't believe anyone, including the guy who said Harrison was using open-hands and it was legal.  It was just one of the things I read that agreed with the Steelers winning, just as I saw guys making arguments against it, etc. etc.  I'm simply pointing out that your idea of "internet chatter" that Harrison's play deserved his being ejected was basically bunk, and that the "chatter" you brought up was seemingly even between those who are for, and against the Steelers win.  That's all.

And to answer your question, I 100% believe Harrison got the penalty he deserved, and that he did NOT deserve ejection from the game.  The game was chippy, the refs let it get that way too much, they assessed a penalty for a player using open-hands to hit another player (I still want to see a closed-fist punch as you claim) after and away from the play.  That resulted in a call that didn't mean much due to the field position, but just because the call's negated due to the field position doesn't mean you should then somehow try to assess a heavier-handed penalty to make up for it.  I don't think ejection was the right call, and I'm pleased it didn't happen.  The posting of the Youtube clip reinforced my opinion to me, actually, as I noted.

Quote
That's why I asked you to provide info on it, which you're obviously unable to do.

So I guess Matt_Fury's full of ****, eh?  Seeing as how he agreed with me that it existed.  Did you watch the game, or just forget this?  It was a pretty big play/important penalty at the time actually IIRC, but I just didn't feel like looking it up...  Matt, if you could clarify that it happened though, I'd appreciate you posting that it did happen...  I'm assuming we didn't disagree about something fictional. ;)  Whether Matt agreed with me on it or not isn't relevant, is it?  No argument was being made except between he and I, who both saw it happen, and both have our own opinion on it...  You missed it, so feel free not to join in that completely separate discussion if you wish.  I just was saying it happened because you seemed to want to argue that point with me, for whatever reason, which seems like a habit with you lately...  I'm sure 100% of the people here have noticed that lately. ;)

Quote
As for the reference to our disagreement on Owens, I'm simply bringing that up as a reference point for your position on Harrison.  You can call it team play or morality or leadership or teen spirit - I don't care what semantics you want to use.  The point is that you took a strong position against a guy for the words he says and called him locker room cancer, but you seem to have no problem with someone who punches a guy, holds him down, then violently shoves him to the ground multiple times.  I guess I just don't understand your value system.  Personally, I'd rather have a guy on my team who shoots his mouth off once in a while versus a guy who attacks others physically because he can't control his aggression, but I guess we just don't see eye to eye on it.  Regardless, I didn't mean to open up old wounds and hope you can see why I thought your earlier view is relevant.

There's no semantics between things that aren't the same...  Morality is irrelevant to that discussion.  First, I would like to see proof (since you demand it, I can too) of a closed-fist punch.  That is 100% relevant to this issue with Harrison, so I would like it if you could provide close-ups of punches.  Pushes, I agree with, and open-handed shoving, yes I'm 100% there with you.  And thus I feel the penalty assessed was completely appropriate.  Ejection though?  No.  Second, I'd like to know if he was chop-blocked or ball-tapped to illicit this response from Harrison...  I think that's relevant too.  I doubt he did this simply out of the blue, and completely unprovoked...  I like to think he's a professional, so there's some kind of provocation there likely.

But, to your point...  It's immoral to carry an illegal gun, or fight dogs.  Burress or Vick maybe were good leaders in the locker room though.  They maybe were guys their teammates loved, and miss having around.  Spouting off your mouth about your teammates, coaches, and team owners at press conferences  is not immoral, nor did I ever claim it to be.  It's bad leadership for your team...  These are different topics, and I'd think most people see that.  I'm sure the good leaders of a football team are aggressive, and I'm sure they don't look fondly on their opposition on game day.  I'm sure they hit with the idea of punishing their opponents...  Maybe Harrison had a guy chop block him at the knees, and he felt if someone's going to do that and risk his career, he's going to take a couple extra shoves at the guy?  Maybe throwing an illegal block or low hit is immoral, and got answered with something equal?  I'm not sure the guy did that though, so I'm not saying that happened, but I do think Harrison wouldn't just "explode" for no reason like that. 

At the same time, and again to answer you, I think he got the penalty he deserved and that was that...  Now, had he balled a fist and punched the guy up under the mask, or jerked him around by his facemask or something, or even hurt the guy, then yes I think ejection's warranted completely.  That didn't happen though, and it was just extra shoving/pushing, not "punching".

The situation was flipped by the way.  1996 I recall not being very pleased at the outcome, and I didn't think much of the officiating in the game, but I went to school the next day and moved on without griping about it with my buddies...  It was nice to just see them in the big game when I was old enough to appreciate it, and sure some things didn't go the Steeler's way, but some things did, and the Steelers could've played better to win for sure despite being massive underdogs (IIRC)...  Just like Arizona could've done different things to win, like clock management perhaps.  I am just a guy who doesn't adhere to the notion that referees decide games...  Teams do.  Again, that's the kind of things you teach 9 and 10 year olds you coach, so you don't hear that it was everyone's fault but their own after the game.

Hell, if I bitched about officials deciding games, I think I'd have a lot of losses to the Patriots to gripe about...  Some of those games were attrocious to watch over the last 10 years of playoff games, but the Steelers didn't do a lot right to win too.  C'est la vie, indeed.

I'll add too, officials make bad calls without a doubt, so I'm not disputing that...  I don't think everything in this SB was called well by any means, thus my anger at all the holding calls that went unanswered.  I just don't agree that refs decide games, and they didn't decide this one either.  I think it's  lame on fan's behalf when they use it as a crutch, and the game ends the way it ends.  That's me though.

Last year the Penguins had some seriously ****** officiating right into the Stanley Cup Finals, and they lost the finals to Detroit.  I think there were many non-calls that should've been made, but the Penguins lost because they didn't get it done when they could have against Detroit...  The refs didn't lose the cup for the Penguins, the Penguins lost the cup for the Penguins.  I played hockey for over 10 years, it's probably my biggest sports passion (even above football), and I wouldn't even consider claiming the refs lost the cup for the Penguins.  Life's a bitch, and I got over it the next day.  I may take note of a non-call or bad call, but it's never "why" there's a loss to me...  The loss is on the team's shoulders, and theirs alone.  Not everyone agrees with that I guess, but it's the way I was brought up and the way I've taught the kids I coached as well.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on February 5, 2009, 09:53 AM
I'm kind of done with this topic as the comments are getting reptitive, but you're lying and that bothers me.

#1 - I didn't say jack about "Chatter" on YouTube. Ever.  Read my posts.  I didn't even know that there were comments posted about videos on YouTube until you mentioned it and I went to look for it.  What I said was that there is a lot of chatter online about the Harrison beat down.  If you can face the truth, do a search on Google for "harrison francisco super bowl" and you'll see plenty of "Chatter" about this.  I won't offer up a number or false stats - its pretty obvious if you take 30 seconds to look that people were upset about his actions.

#2 - I only mentioned Youtube in reference to actual video of what happened.  There are dozens of videos of Harrison going berserk on Francisco.  You keep talking about how "chippy" the game and that there were "Scrubs" all over, yet there appear to be no videos of any other brawls or anyone running over your place holder.  You compared that play to Harrison's actions - if it was an intentional attack on another player remotely similar to what Harrison did, then why are there no videos of it or articles about it?  After all, you keep talking about what a big play it was - it should be very easy for you to back that up if true. 

#3 - Where did I say that Matt_Fury is full of ****?  I can't believe that you're trying to make it look like I'm refuting him, when in fact he was refuting you.  Here's his quote since your memory seems to be lacking:

I don't think it was an equivalent thing Jesse.  Not saying it should not have been a penalty, but I think forward momentum had a lot to do with him hitting the ball holder.

I'm not going to speak for someone else like you will, but I took that to mean that he didn't think it was an intentional beat down similar to Harrison's.  The question is quite obviously not about whether the play happened, but whether or not it's a fair counter point to what Harrison did.  I say it was not and seems pretty clear that Matt_Fury felt the same way.  And trying to say that you were having a seperate conversation with Matt is weak.  His comment refuted your reply to my post, so it's all one big happy conversation.  If you want to have a private conversation, don't post in a forum.  "Matt" said something similar to IFETT in a conversation a week ago and I find that arguement to be plain dumb.  No one here has any more or less right to comment on a post than anyone else.

#4 - Can we please hear more about how you coach kids?  Serioiusly, I know this is your fall back position to anything sports related, but it's really not relevant.  Would you tell your kids that what Harrision did was okay?  If so, you should quit your job ASAP.  I still can't believe you're defending this guy, especially by saying maybe someone wronged him, so he's getting them back.  Is that the leadership and conduct you're teaching your kids?  God, I hope not. 

#5 - You can't seem to escape the notion that I'm a bitter Cardinals fan bitching that they should have won the game if not for the refs.  How many different ways do I need to tell you that I'm not a Cardinals fan and that I'm not saying the game should have gone to the Cardinals?  I've very clearly said that I think Harrison should have been thrown out for his actions and that the Warner "fumble" at the end of the game should have been reviewed.  If that happens and the outcome is the same, then I'm fine with the Steelers winning. 

Sure, the Cardinals could have done more to win the game.  I thought the Holmes TD near the end was legit and it was silly that three Cardinals were right in front of him watching him make the catch, especially since the play before was pretty much the same thing.  But if you don't see the impact that certain calls have on the game, then you're blind.  Everyone here seems to agree that it was a close game with a lot of close calls.  I believe the majority of close calls went to the Steelers.  Any one of those could have easily gone in the Cardinals favor, so you have to admit that its at least possible that Arizona would have won if one of those calls went the other way.  Its pretty simple logic then that one different close call decision by the refs might have changed the outcome of this game.  They are obviously not the only factor in a game, but yes, the decisions made on close calls by refs are a big part of why one team wins and another loses, as was the case here.

We obviously just don't see eye to eye on football.  If my Packers were in this situation I would be elated that they were the new SB champs just like you are with, but if AJ Hawk had pulled the stunt that Harrison pulled, I'd be in full support of dropping him from the team no matter how good he is.  It's a violent enough sport without guys who can't control their aggression beating up on someone who's on the ground and clearly not fighting back. 

Anyway, I'm going to follow the advice from my previous post and move on until we can find something else football related to argue about.   ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on February 5, 2009, 10:45 AM
I was wondering if Jesse James or JediJman have an opinion on the Super Bowl? Please post if you do. ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: P-Siddy on February 5, 2009, 11:46 AM
The 2008 season is so last week.  ::)  ;)
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on February 5, 2009, 01:26 PM
The 2008 season is so last week.  ::)  ;)

 ;D

I know, but what else are we going to talk about until the draft?   :'(
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on February 5, 2009, 02:13 PM
I'm gonna make these short answers (as much as I can) just so you know where I was coming from, because I'm not even kinda done, I simply am done with this.  It's definitely repetitive.

1 )  You cited Youtube and Google when you said there was Chatter going on...  Not me.  I just assumed you knew people have conversations about every Youtube clip below them.  I'm sorry you didn't know that...  The conversations really not much different on Youtube than the Google searches though, so moot point IMO.  There are plenty of people who aren't upset and don't think he deserved thrown out, and that Harrison got the penalty he deserved and the circumstances afterwards negated it too...  People are arguing both points, and I don't give a **** about either side, just my own opinion, whether they agree with me or not at this point.  I was reading some conversation on this at places like Yahoo sports, ESPN, etc., and it's all pretty much the same it seems.  People are having the same argument we are it seems, with no end in sight.

2 ) I never said the game's chippiness was equal to what Harrison did, however I don't believe pushing on the sidelines is much different than pushing a guy who potentially chop blocked you either.  I'm just saying, and the commentators mention it in the Youtube clips you cite, that the game's chippiness was what lead to that play, and it was getting out of control on BOTH sides.  Harrison's was definitely the worst, but I still say he didn't use a closed fist, he didn't "punch" anyone like you have stated several times without proof.  He pushed someone, and that's what earned him the penalty he got.  You want him ejected for "punches" nobody threw.

3 ) I'm busting your balls partly on this...  Matt and I were debating a play you kept saying didn't exist, that you didn't see, that maybe you were grabbing a beer while it happened.  I was simply saying it existed and I don't give a **** about this to prove it to you...  It was a joke and just proving the play existed.  Matt and I disagree on whether it was "bad" is all.  I think it was similarly bad to Harrison's play, but I'm 100% sure that even if I did prove this play with video to you, you'd disagree, becuase I find you completely biased on this matter.  I know,  I know, I know, spare me your speech on impartiality...  I don't believe you, I think you're not being honest about that, and that's all I have to say.  I don't care to argue THIS point any more than I care to carry on arguing with you on these OTHER points.  ;)  I'm pretty sure you feel similarly.

Again, I'm just being a ball buster and using Matt and I's separate conversation about that play that the play actually existed, that's all.  Matt made your argument as well as you would've made your own I think, and it would've ended in another disagreement.

4 ) Actually most people consider expeience with the game relevant...  I know I do, be it playiing it at various levels, or actually being requested to coach it, and having physical involvement with it on and off the field in some organization.  It's something everyone I've worked with on it takes it very seirous.

I teach kids sportsmanship, leadership, and the difficulty and intricacies of the game so they're prepared to move up to the high school level and play competitively.  If the kids ask me if James Harrison should've been pulled from the game, I'll tell them 100% unequivocally no...  That he let his aggression get the better of him, that he lost his cool, and that a good player doesn't do that, and that he got a penalty for it that could've really cost his team a lot.  I'll also teach them that football is a rough, physical sport, and that the older you get the more physical it becomes, and that they must learn to control themselves in all situations because it's for the good of their team, and as examples to their teammates, to do so.

To be honest, I'm proud to say I've never had a kid on my defenses, any season, be ejected from a game.  And if you think kids don't do things like punch one another after a whistle or start scrums, you're mistaken.  Youth rules actually require ejection for children due to their age, if they scrum at all after the whistle.

I don't think I could ever not cite that I actually am still involved, on and off the field, with a football organization, as a positive to my background though.  I think it's sort of a jerkoff move to be critical of that with me, but whatever man.  My mind is straight on MY actual experience with football, and if that makes me a lesser person in your eyes, well I'm sorry you see it that way.  It seemed relevant to what you were questioning me on, but I guess you disagree.

5 )   Just so you feel better, I agree the Warner fumble needed reviewed.  I know we really didn't touch on that much, but I agree it at least should have been reviewed.  On the replays I saw, I still think it was a fumble, but it was a very reviewable play because it was close like the first Warner fumble that got called back.  I thought I'd heard on the news that the NFL said it was reviewed upstairs immediately and ruled the right call on the field, but regardless it doesn't hurt to go to the hoods and make sure the call on the field was right or wrong by the guys actually down there.

I get that you're not from Arizona, and only were rooting for them because they're underdogs or whatever, but I still think you're biased and not being completely honest here...  You feel the same way about me because I'm a Pittsburgh fan.  I know you're not a die-hard AZ fan though, so don't worry.  I've heard you on that.  I think every MN guy's aware you're a Packers fan.  I still think you're wrong on Harrison being thrown out though, and I think Warner fumbled (though his earlier one called back was 100% correct because he had control of the ball just as it went forward).

Again, I pointed out what I teach kids because that's what you teach at the most basic levels of the game, and yet we've got adults in a forum arguing that officials are who always decide this sport, week-in-and-week-out...  I guess I'm basically saying the people who do that, are no better than 8 year olds.  You can cry about reffing all you want, but at the end of the day the TEAM decides their fate.  AZ did a lot of things wrong, and a lot of things right, and calls went both ways in that game (I think more holding calls went AZ's way than ours...  Could that have decided the game too?).  Mike Tomlin said it best that Pittsburgh came to play 60 minutes of football, not 58.  That's what won the game to me.

I find adults using reffing as their basis lame is all...  If the Steelers were in the reverse situation, I'd say the same thing to Steelers fans crying and whining that officiating lost them the game.  If the Steelers had lost, I'd be saying "WTF was up with the offensive line?", or "Where did our #1 defense go to because our secondary ate ass!?".  There's always someone other than the zebras to blame, I guess is my point.  The guys who seem slanted towards AZ don't seem to see Fitzgerald not being an entity on the field till the second half, all the dropped passes, the run game getting stonewalled, and the AZ secondary 100% ******* up.  They don't seem to count that.

I completely agree though, that we are not on the same page as football fans.  Not even close.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on February 5, 2009, 03:38 PM
So much for short replies.  You're not saying anything new, so I'm not wasting any more time on a detailed response.  You've obviously gone to the trouble of looking through pages of YT comments and posting paragraphs about some "roughing the holder" play that was "similarly bad to Harrison's play."  If you're willing to go all that trouble, why not just quickly find a vid or an article about it as proof that it was jsut as bad.  For someone who's not interested in proving their point, you sure have a lot to say about it.

Frankly, I don't appreciate you questioning my integrity or honesty when I've clearly layed out the facts and provided proof.  You've provided no evidence of any wrong doing on the cardinals part, you've thrown out unfounded stats, and you flat out lie about what's been said by others - not much integrity in that my friend. 

Anyway, you cleared everything up for me when you said you'd tell your kids that Harrison's actions were wrong simply because they could have "cost his team."  So who care's about treating other players with respect - it's fine to beat on someone if it's not detrimental to the team, right?  Is your lesson that Harrison should have waited until after the game to attack Francisco, so that it didn't hurt his team?  Ridiculous.

Congrats on the SB win - I hope your favorite thug enjoys his pretty new ring.

Speaking of which, here's another fun Harrison beat down of a Browns fan on the field.  Picking the guy up off his feet and throwing him to the ground is classic, but I can't tell if he's holding down the guy's throat or his head. Doesn't really matter - at least it didn't hurt his team! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fC3xNSiRTDc&feature=related

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on February 5, 2009, 03:56 PM
I shortened them up for each point you laid out numerically at least...  Still, you laid out of a lot of stuff, so replies were gonna mount up I guess.

"Gone to the trouble" of looking at the Youtube pages?  Are you serious?  You realize you can scroll down and see them...  I read maybe 3 deep?  Hardly difficult since I had the page open to view the video you were so adamant about.

I didn't appreciate you claiming MY integrity was in question either Justin...  I've been very honest that I wouldn't have cried like this about the reffing if the shoe were on the other foot, and how I feel about being on either end, winning or losing, in a football game...  I've been there in 1996, it's not fun, but it wasn't the fault of officiating...  I was there last year with the Penguins in the Stanley Cup Finals...  Sucked, and it was the first time they got that far and lost.  It sucked, but it wasn't the reffing that lost the series...  It's the team that loses those games.

I asked you to show me Harrison "throwing punches", you didn't...  So the burden of proof for both arguments is on each of us.  I totally believe YOU that you think his actions warranted an ejection, but I totally disagree and I feel they didn't.  It's a difference of opinion.  I simply don't think his after-play pushing was as bad as claiming punches were thrown, that's all.

And yes, I'd tell them Harrison's actions would cost the team...  You teach kids to think about the team, and to control themselves.  You cannot teach them to be timid though, or to not be physical.  It's a physical game.  It's a very fine line teaching sportsmanship in a game like football...  You are hitting an opponent, but you have to respect him.  You hit the way the rules allow you....  Anything more is unsportsmanlike.  Anything more costs your team, and you owe them and yourself better than that.  Maybe you'd have to be there to understand, I don't know.  It breeds some good ball players though teaching that, and teaching them not to talk smack on the other team and their own teammates.

I don't recall saying you teach kids to handle ANYTHING off the field.  Again, another lesson that, if you're into an organization on any level, you learn that you handle your aggression on the field and by the rules.  You don't run your mouth, you play to win and by the rules, so you can be proud when you put the W up in the column.

If you are trying to say Harrison dropping that Cleveland fan is "wrong" on any level, I officially think you're insane.  The guy illegally ran on the field.  Who knows if he's out to hurt somebody...  Dude got less than he deserved if you ask me.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on February 5, 2009, 07:07 PM
Jesse, no one cares about 1996 or the penguins.  I really don't care if there were bad calls in every game over the last decade or if this is the first game ever where the officiating was a big deal.  The calls were questionable in this game and the outcome could have very easily gone the other way several times in this game or at the very least poorly handled.  I think there is a Hockey thread if you want to go there and talk about the penguins.   ;)

We can (obviously) debate forever about whether Harrison's hand was open or not - I could care less if you want to call it a punch or not.  Like I said, an open palm hit is just as effective as a punch, so I'll agree to that if it really makes a difference to you.  It was a violent hit followed by unprovoked, repeated shoving to the ground no matter what terminology you want to use.  You're still being two-faced about the Harrison thing. 

You stated what you would tell your kids earlier and it had nothing to do with respecting your opponent - it had to do with "not costing your team."  Hitting someone after the game doesn't hurt the team's chances of winning does it?  So why would your kids think that's wrong?   That's a very clear example of unsportsmanlike conduct - I don't understand why you think sportsmanship is a very fine line.  I've played several sports in my day and was never confused about whether my actions or other's actions were right or wrong.  If you're confused by this, I again seriously suggest you re-evaluate your decision to coach. 

As for the Cleveland game, you've got a warped sense of right and wrong.  I do think Harrison was wrong in dropping him to the ground.  Here is a guy who clearly can't resisit the opportunity to lay the hurt on someone else.  It's not Harrison's job to catch some nutbar on the field, is it?  I mean, they do have a few security guys at these games right?  Even if he wants to help out, I think there's probably a better way to restrain some drunk than lifting him off the ground, chucking him down, and holding him down by the neck.  You're talking about a huge professional athlete in full pads going against a lightweight drunk here - what if he had broken the guy's back or shattered his spine?  Yeah the guy "illegally" ran on the field, so he deserves to die, eh?  Do you speed up to hit pedestrians walking outside of the cross walk as well?
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on February 5, 2009, 09:49 PM
You questioned my "integrity" on this matter, and I told you I've been in this position in the past, and I didn't cry about it.  My teams lost, and it sucked, and I felt a lot of things could've gone their way that didn't, and those things could've maybe been important to the outcome, and I got over it the very next day without crying a river.  I'm just showing you that, while you think I'm lying to you or whatever, that I've been there...  This time YOU are there, and instead of manning up, you're saying the game wasn't decided on the field by the teams.  I simply don't have respect for that.  You don't respect me or my view either, and that's cool.  No biggie...  Just showing you that I've been in the other person's shoes in my time, since you kept saying, "If it were the other way, you'd be acting just like me".  I'm here to tell you I'd never behave like that because I view sports completely different than you and feel officiating is part of the game, and that the teams decide the ultimate outcome.

And yes we could debate Harrison's hands being open or closed, but why not just look at the tape?  You provided it Justin, give it a look again.  They're open the whole time.  And if you honestly believe a punch and a push are the same thing, hey man I just chalk that up again to a lack of experience on your part I guess...  Most who've been punched and pushed know the difference, and it seems to play a difference in how a penalty is called in a football game.

As far as my coaching goes, I really think it's quite simple...  You teach your kids to obey the rules of the sport, and if they don't they accept the consequences, but by disobeying the rules they lose respect not just for their opponents, but for themselves and their team.  They put their team in negative situations, but obeying the rules also teaches respect of the opposing team...  That's sort of a given...  Knowing not to break the rules is, in itself, sportsmanship and teaching kids to respect their opponent.  No great mystery there, and kids understand that, and the concept of fair play display respect on the field for everybody including themselves. 

Personally I find it a little offensive for you to continue questioning my coaching Justin, and if you wanted old wounds opened up you've done a bang-up job on that I guess.  I'd put the past behind us immediately on the last matter, but you clearly haven't.  I'm sorry you felt that way and felt compelled to criticize something I take pride in and which has given me a great sense of accomplishment with the sport(s) I've enjoyed.  I know what I've accomplished with these sports though, as a kid myself, and now as an adult, so I've got no shame in being proud and counting it as part of my experience and why I feel the way I do about football (or hockey, etc.).

I'm to the point I can't even hardly comment on the Cleveland guy getting dumped thing...  It's a whole other topic but a silly one I think.  First, it was hysterical when it happened I thought, other than you didn't know what the guy was up to.  The guy broke the law, ran on the field (towards the Steelers side by the way), and got his ass handed to him.  Are there security there Justin?  I dunno, I didn't see them doing a good job as he tore around the field...  ;) 

I guess maybe the Steelers sideline should've run away from the guy doing the illegal **** then, rather than someone putting an end to it.  What if he had a knife or other weapon?  Harrison protected himself, his teammates, and dropped a potential nutcase (I like to think a sane person doesn't do that) who'd illegally gotten on the field.  I'd have done the same thing if I were in his shoes, just so the spectacle ended and so I knew he wasn't gonna do something actually bad to someone.  In this day and age I'm surprised anyone could think Harrison was in the wrong.  Yeesh.  Maybe if they were playing in Mayberry and that was Goober and everyone knew he was harmless and just a prankster...  I dunno, it's still dumb to me.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on February 5, 2009, 10:51 PM
As far as my coaching goes, I really think it's quite simple...  You teach your kids to obey the rules of the sport, and if they don't they accept the consequences, but by disobeying the rules they lose respect not just for their opponents, but for themselves and their team.  They put their team in negative situations, but obeying the rules also teaches respect of the opposing team...  That's sort of a given...  Knowing not to break the rules is, in itself, sportsmanship and teaching kids to respect their opponent.  No great mystery there, and kids understand that, and the concept of fair play display respect on the field for everybody including themselves. 

Dude, I don't find anything about that paragraph "simple."  Are you still sober?   ;) 

In all seriousness, I'm not interested in fighting about this anymore.  I still think Harrison is a violent thug and that the game could have been called better.  You think he got penalized appropriately and the game was called fairly.  We have a different outlook on things and I respect your right to your own opinion. 

In the spirit of moving on and poking fun at my own team, I found a funny video while I was on youtube.  Do you think This Play (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pzN-K49OMk) counts as a turnover against Favre?   ;D  Check out the block from the first yellow guy on the gray guy. 

Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: Jesse James on February 5, 2009, 10:59 PM
I think the guy that tackled him should be signed, and the guy that stole the ball should too...  That guy seemed to hold the ball after a savage hit, and the security that tackled him really wrapped up nice...  Both should be proud.

The two that ran into one another...  Well, I hear Cincy, Cleveland, and Detroit are all looking for some new guys in the secondary I guess.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: GrandMoffNick on February 6, 2009, 08:46 AM
I don't follow the Steelers so..... does Harrison do things like he did in the Super Bowl a lot? If not I feel JediJman is being a little over critical of Harrison as a whole based off one questionable violent moment.

If you've discussed this already, don't answer, you two's posts are too long and I don't care enough so I haven't read them all the way through.
Title: Re: NFL Regular Season 2008
Post by: JediJman on February 6, 2009, 09:37 AM
I don't follow the Steelers so..... does Harrison do things like he did in the Super Bowl a lot? If not I feel JediJman is being a little over critical of Harrison as a whole based off one questionable violent moment.

If you've discussed this already, don't answer, you two's posts are too long and I don't care enough so I haven't read them all the way through.

NICK.  We just moved past the whole Harrison thing.  I don't follow the Steelers, nor do I have a tally of the number of jerk moves he's made on other guys.  Maybe he has two and maybe he has 100.  How would you count them up?  Look at the debate over just this one action let alone others.  What number of similar violent actions would satisfy you?

In my own opinion, he was way too rough with Francisco for no reason.  It's one thing to get mad and hit or push a guy, but it's quite another to keep going after him once he's down and not fighting back.  If you look at the way he whipped that drunk in Cleveland, that seems overly aggressive to me to - maybe not to some others.  I don't know Harrison personally and I'm not going to waste time looking up more of his plays, but the guy seems to enjoy beating up on people based on these two instances.  It's been my experience that people who can't control their anger are repeat offenders, but I don't need a count on that to make up my own mind that he's a thug. 

By the way, there are a lot of interesting quotes online from Francisco about the play.  He says he had the urge to fight back, but held his anger in check becasue it knew it might hurt their chances of winning the big game.  Chew this over - had the refs decided that Harrison's actions occurred a second sooner, Arizona would have had a first down with a strong likelyhood of scoring AND cutting more time off the clock later in the game.  Harrison could have very easily cost his team the game and has to know that, yet he still went after Francisco.  If that's not evidence of anger management issues, I don't know what is.