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Collectibles => Past Hasbro 3.75" Lines => Shadows of the Dark Side => Topic started by: JACKOFTRADZE on April 28, 2010, 10:01 AM

Title: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on April 28, 2010, 10:01 AM
Some exciting news on two larger sized Hoth BP's via Q&A from the German site lichtgeschwindigkeit.de (Say that 10 times)

http://www.lichtgeschwindigkeit.de/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=6521

1) Will we see a return of the Ultimate Battlepacks this year? If so, can you share any information of what to expect? And how about a different Hoth Battlepack in the future that includes an Ion Cannon?

Hasbro: While we will not release specifics, the Hoth packs coming later this year will be bigger than the current Battle Packs, but not quite as large and pricey as the original Ultimate Battle Packs. So in general, you are hunting in the right area, although the Ion Cannon is still way too big for us to execute.

2) We are still waiting to see the release of the non-bearded Hoth Rebel Trooper. Will he make it onto the new Vintage style cards or are you holding on to release him in a battlepack? He would make a nice addition on a single card considering the 30th Anniversary of ESB.

Hasbro: He will be released in one of the new Battle Packs mentioned above, later this Fall. At some point we do not rule out a release on a Vintage card, but that would be far out in the future if we did.

I'm very  excited about the news of two larger sized Hoth BPs. Hopefully the one pack will have several Troopers maybe even a Torynn Farr, Hoth Transport cart, Reikean computer console, and other Echo Base goodies. Very cool news indeed!
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Darth_Anton on April 28, 2010, 11:06 AM
Exciting to hear. I'm sure one will have the Hoth deco At-St.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: iFett on April 28, 2010, 11:10 AM
I was thinking the same thing, but I dunno - not quite as large or pricey?  Weren't the UBPs $50-$60?  Not sure how much they could cram in a box with an the new AT-ST to make it less expensive than those were.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Jesse James on April 28, 2010, 03:06 PM
Yeah, what they implied there doesn't bode well for the Hoth AT-ST to be in a battlepack considering the price of the AT-ST last year coupled with the price and size of UBP's (which included the much smaller AT-ST).  What I do think they're going to include is one will have the Hoth Turret...  We asked a question here some time ago about whether or not we'd see the Hoth turret again, and Hasbro said they were looking at various ways to get the turret back out to collectors as they knew there was demand for it.

That, I believe, would be justification for a larger, but not quite UBP sized, battlepack.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: jedi_master_sal on April 28, 2010, 04:03 PM
So far, I'm in for this one. More Turrets PLEASE! 2-3 Hoth Rebel (w/o beards) would be excellent too. Toryn Farr would be a collecting dream come true for me.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Jabba the Slug on May 16, 2010, 10:38 PM
Could the Hoth Empire BP set be one of the mentioned sets? That BP is pretty large for the standard BPs these days - whereas it's just four figures in BPs, we get 3 figures (Vader, 2 troopers), a gun turret, and a swoop bike. Hasbro would normally switch out the turret with one of the figures, but we're also getting a swoop and a rider.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: shmashwitdaclub on May 17, 2010, 10:14 AM
Could the Hoth Empire BP set be one of the mentioned sets? That BP is pretty large for the standard BPs these days - whereas it's just four figures in BPs, we get 3 figures (Vader, 2 troopers), a gun turret, and a swoop bike. Hasbro would normally switch out the turret with one of the figures, but we're also getting a swoop and a rider.

could be, but in the first post Hasbro references the price point of the UBP's saying it won't be as large and pricey.  They could have just said that it was going to be in the regular BP line with the same pricepoint - but they didn't.  I am thinking bigger in the $30-40 price range as an exclusive.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Dan on May 17, 2010, 04:16 PM
Hmmm, maybe a new tauntaun with the turret?
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Jabba the Slug on May 17, 2010, 06:59 PM
Quote
(Maybe exclusives, priced more expensive than a regular BP)
19542 Hidden Enemy
19543 Nikto Robino Bounty Hunters

This popped up on Yakface.com rumor mill (http://www.yakface.com/?file=2010/may/rumors.htm). Could the mystery Hoth pack be part of this? ???
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on May 17, 2010, 09:28 PM
I think that one refers to the Speeder, Vader and Snowtrooper pack as it's bundled with the other basic BPs. These Larger Hoth BPs are a higher price point and sound like they will be an exclusive. Not confirmed to be an exclusive but I would bet money they are.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Jabba the Slug on May 17, 2010, 11:44 PM
The only problem with that theory is that Hasbro has not yet said anything about the Hoth Assault set (Vader, Snowtrooper...) being an exclusive or higher priced. Maybe they will later, as this set is a little bigger than the standard BP format, or maybe they'll reveal it later.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: CloneF13Y35 on June 12, 2010, 11:54 AM
I got that target Hoth battle pack and it was a really cool deal. Even with a new At-St out now, that one was still 'ok' at the time since I didn't have one. Nice mix of new Snowies, one old one and hoth han and 'hoth cliffy' (oh, Mj Derlin - my bad).  Though the old hoth trooper was 'ok' we need more new ones. I still have the cardboard set with the turret on a bookcase shelf. Since they won't make 'playsets', this will do for now.
I'd actually love to get that Bespin Carbon Freezing Chamber, and since big H probbaly won't re-release it, guess it'll be an ebay thing.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: iFett on June 18, 2010, 03:38 PM
From Jay at Yak (http://www.yakfaceforums.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=129&t=5478)

Battle of Hoth: (2 Battle Packs)
1x Attack on Hoth with 1 AT-ST, 1 AT-ST Driver, 1 Snowtrooper
1x Defense on Hoth with 1 Laser Turret, 2 Rebel Soldiers (maybe the home for the dropped beardless trooper?)
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Nicklab on June 18, 2010, 04:08 PM
Sounds promising.  I could see the AT-ST set being roughly the size of the Endor AT-ST box that was at WalMart.  As for the Turret set?  I would imagine that Hasbro might be trying to get some mileage from the Hoth turret that was in the original Hoth Ultimate battle pack.  That piece was awesome!
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: efranks on June 18, 2010, 06:08 PM
I'll be excited to see that turret again because I didn't buy the UBP and kind of kicked myself afterwards.  Just didn't have the cash for them at the time.  I don't know if I'll buy the AT-ST but the turret set is a definite possiblity.

   E...
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: jedi_master_sal on June 18, 2010, 07:18 PM
From Jay at Yak (http://www.yakfaceforums.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=129&t=5478)

Battle of Hoth: (2 Battle Packs)
1x Attack on Hoth with 1 AT-ST, 1 AT-ST Driver, 1 Snowtrooper
1x Defense on Hoth with 1 Laser Turret, 2 Rebel Soldiers (maybe the home for the dropped beardless trooper?)

I'm in for 3 of these if I can find them. I'll be happy to get those turrets. AS for the Rebels, I hope BOTH are the beardLESS variety. Most of the Hoth Rebel Soldiers WERE beardless, so it would make sense.

No I wonder what the price of these will be? The AT-ST set I see going for $50, since the recent AT-ST was $45 or so. That turret set should only be about $30 though. But I can see Hasbro milking it for $50. THAT would bite and make me hold off on buying more than one.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on June 18, 2010, 09:28 PM
I hope/expect they put more stuff in the Rebel box.  A turret and two figures against an AT-ST and two figures? No contest if the prices are the same.

That Turret is... nice, I guess?  But it's no contest against the AT-ST as far as toy awesomeness goes.  Unless it's the old AT-ST... and really, even then, still no contest.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: CHEWIE on June 18, 2010, 11:16 PM
That turret is amazing in my opinion... doesn't stack up next to the new AT-ST though in terms of value.  I hope they also add in something else to that set to spice it up.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Jabba the Slug on June 19, 2010, 01:12 AM
I wonder why Hasbro's keeping these UBPs almost strictly related to the Hoth battle. I would like to see more of these, but maybe covering EU scenes/battles.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Jesse James on June 19, 2010, 02:24 AM
I'd take 1 of the new HOth Turret to 3 of the old AT-ST.

Hell, I traded my AT-ST away from the last Hoth UBP.

I'm down for both of those sets, though I'll probably buy more of the Rebel set than the Imperial one depending on the price...  I only have one of the Rebel Turrets, and would like 3 or more (more would be nice).  That's an item I've wanted more of since I got the first one, at a hopefully lower price for "army building" it.  It's to-scale, fairly detailed (outside anyway).  Can't beat it.

The AT-ST I'm into, but the only thing that deters me is that the Hoth AT-ST has pretty significant differences in terms of the two models, and so I'm only into getting one because of that.  I cannot fathom them altering the sculpt at all on that, and I have a number of the WM one now, so I'm ok with just one Hoth decoed one I think then...  unless there's some huge surprise in that set.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Darth_Anton on June 19, 2010, 09:28 AM
Both sound great and both sound like multi-purchase potential.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Rob on June 19, 2010, 11:25 AM
Both sound like a pile of slightly repainted repacks to me.

If there's nothing new, it's an easy pass.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: CHEWIE on June 19, 2010, 11:31 AM
I wonder why Hasbro's keeping these UBPs almost strictly related to the Hoth battle. I would like to see more of these, but maybe covering EU scenes/battles.

When you think about big land battles in the OT, there's really not much Imperial/Rebel related outside of Hoth and Endor.  Though I do agree, it would be cool seeing something EU related...
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Jeff on June 19, 2010, 12:08 PM
If there's nothing new, it's an easy pass.

That's what is so frustrating to me.  I'm know I'm going to be stupid and shell out $35-40 for the Rebel set just to finally get that beardless Hoth Rebel variant.  Same for the Imperial set if the rumors pan out and the AT-ST Driver is a new sculpt.   ::)
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Rob on June 20, 2010, 01:35 AM
Yeah... there will be tons of extra BP pieces on eBay cheap from people shelling out for the new figures and selling the rest.  Which is probably what I'll be stuck doing.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: jedi_master_sal on June 20, 2010, 07:35 AM
Yeah... there will be tons of extra BP pieces on eBay cheap from people shelling out for the new figures and selling the rest.  Which is probably what I'll be stuck doing.

I'll buy your turret from you!
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Rob on June 20, 2010, 07:20 PM
I'll buy your turret from you!

Depends what the actual product looks like... if it's retooled or painted differently, I'll probably keep it.  Check with me when they show up though.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Diddly on June 20, 2010, 11:11 PM
Going to be pretty pissed if that AT-ST set is priced anything less than $43.96. Although is it confirmed that they're using the new sculpt? I can kinda see them using the old one.

Although I'm definitely down for a few of the turret sets, depending on two things: 1) Price and 2) If the beardless Hoth Trooper is included.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Jesse James on June 21, 2010, 02:08 AM
I'll PROBABLY be buying extra Turrets and figures from the sets too...  again though much like Rob it will depend on seeing the product and how good it is.

If the two figures are something special, the price is right, and the turret is what we assume it is, I'm geeked to buy a couple of these sets, and I'd be actually pretty happy seeing some of the Turret floating around alone for sale.  Love that turret.  One of my favorite larger modern pieces that isn't a vehicle.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: iFett on June 21, 2010, 10:43 AM
Although is it confirmed that they're using the new sculpt? I can kinda see them using the old one.

Hasbro already said we'd be getting a Hoth deco repaint of last year's WM armpit sweat version this year so I personally can't see both versions of a Hoth AT-ST being out in the same year, but it is the 30th anniversary of ESB so who knows..
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: John C on June 21, 2010, 01:42 PM
The more ESB/Hoth goodies, the better.  I'd buy both packs.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: CHEWIE on June 21, 2010, 02:22 PM
I've got three turrets right now already from the 2007 set, two of which are in a Hoth dio... the other I've got in a random fan fiction diorama surrounded by a 6-man squad of Kota'a Militia Rebels.  I could definitely use another turret or two for stuff like that... also I wouldn't mind creating a blast hole in one from battle damage.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: iFett on June 29, 2010, 01:33 PM
Interesting how Hasbro brings up the Ion Cannon when AFI didn't even ask about it.

Q2) Will Hasbro ever re-issue the ULTIMATE HOTH PLAYSET (debuted at Target) or will we they just re-issue the HOTH REBEL TURRET?

A2)  The Ultimate Battle Pack as it was originally released will not be coming back.  Instead, there will be a new configuration including the Turret and some other new bits.  Don’t get your hopes up for an Ion Cannon, though…we looked at this a few years back and it was simply too massive to be done for something that was not a vehicle.

Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Jesse James on June 29, 2010, 04:35 PM
It's been asked before, so they're maybe nipping that in the bud.  People have asked for it a couple times I think.  ???
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Jeff on July 21, 2010, 06:03 PM
- Big-Ass Cannon & Turret, 2x Rebels, K-3PO (http://www.rebelscum.com/sdcc10/Hasbro_Star_Wars_01/image95.asp)
- Hoth AT-ST, 2x Snowtroopers (http://www.rebelscum.com/sdcc10/Hasbro_Star_Wars_01/image83.asp) plus new AT-ST Driver (http://www.rebelscum.com/sdcc10/Hasbro_Star_Wars_01/image98.asp).   :-\
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Pete_Fett on July 21, 2010, 06:07 PM
The Big-Ass Cannon & Turret set looks great! Gonna have to pick up more than just two of that one.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Diddly on July 21, 2010, 06:15 PM
I shouldn't be so ticked off about these sets but I am. AT-ST with a bunch of cool stuff for nearly the same price as last year. Spending a tone of money just to get the beardless Hoth Soldier. Probably only going to pick up the Rebel set.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Scott on July 21, 2010, 06:32 PM
Lame on giving us yet another bearded Hoth Trooper...they could have at least gone with a mustachioed one :-[
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Greedo The Green Menace on July 21, 2010, 06:33 PM
I'm done for the rebel set for sure if I ever actually see these, but meh on the Imperial one. I don't need another At-ST.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Jesse James on July 21, 2010, 07:09 PM
I'll buy both, but I'm already on board for multiples of the Rebel set...  If people don't want their turret, hit me up.  Same on the bearded trooper.

I'd have preferred a non-bearded guy too, but I also dig the diversity.

The radar cannon looks, to me, much too large btw.  The POTF2 one, I think, is pretty accurately scaled.  So this one, I may have extras of.  I'm going to compare, but I think they really put that on steroids, I dunno.

Love that turret though, and want multiples.  Always have. :)
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: iFett on July 21, 2010, 07:24 PM
I'll buy both as well.  Nice to see some actual value in these exclusives so far - and at decent prices.  Wasn't there a radar canon thing in the POTF2 days?  I'm drawing a blank for some reason.   :-\
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Greg on July 21, 2010, 07:26 PM
I feel the money leaving my wallet just looking at these. These sets are perfect! I'm game for two or three of the Rebel Set, and at least two of the Imp set. And if clearance rolls around... well, I'll just say that space might become a major issue.

And the VTAC Snowtrooper has popped up quite a bit since 2007. The only reason for one to NOT have a small army of these guys is that they don't WANT one. I'm happy to have yet another opportunity to army build this great figure.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Nicklab on July 21, 2010, 07:26 PM
I'll buy both as well.  Nice to see some actual value in these exclusives so far - and at decent prices.  Wasn't there a radar canon thing in the POTF2 days?  I'm drawing a blank for some reason.   :-\

There was, but this appears to be an all-new sculpt.  I'm liking that piece quite a bit.  It seems like it may be significantly larger than the POTF2 radar laser cannon.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Diddly on July 21, 2010, 10:05 PM
Ok, so the more I think about these, the more I like them. Definitely going to make the Rebel set priority though.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on July 21, 2010, 10:37 PM
My only gripes are the AT-ST Driver and non Bearded Trooper are only 1 per set. I am getting three of each! These are great!

I have so much old stuff to purge now! Bye-Bye remaining POTF2 stuff.....
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Darby on July 21, 2010, 10:43 PM
The Turret Set - ok.  Only one scarved trooper?  K-3PO? 

AT-ST set - actually pretty good.  Shame that driver is stuck here.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: jedi_master_sal on July 23, 2010, 10:52 AM
I'm down for one AT-ST set and two Rebel sets. Just wish K-3PO wasn't included. WOuld have MUCH rather had two of the scarved beardless Hoth Rebel Troopers. Would have made more sense too. I wonder if there is time to fix that? Most likely not.  :-\
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Rob on July 23, 2010, 10:57 AM
Ok, so the more I think about these, the more I like them. Definitely going to make the Rebel set priority though.

Same here... I'll probably move the existing AT-ST up to the Endor shelf, and then grab one of each of these sets.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: Jabba the Slug on July 23, 2010, 03:11 PM
It looks like these will be Target exclusives.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on July 23, 2010, 03:35 PM
That's good and bad...  The UBP's, at least near me, didn't arrive in great numbers, not by a longshot.  Target's usually good about exclusives, but the bigger they are the less they tend to get, in my area anyway.  I guess time will tell.  They're set for around Christmas it said, but I'm betting on a slightly earlier release.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: iFett on July 23, 2010, 03:40 PM
I'm happy these are coming "back" to Target.  I seem to be loosing my memory for some reason as of late, but I thought these usually come out shortly after Black Friday.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Darby on July 24, 2010, 12:09 PM
Target is the best when it comes to exclusives around here.  I've never had an issue getting something I wanted, so I'm happy to see these and the vintage packaged ships come here.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Diddly on July 24, 2010, 03:25 PM
The only Target exclusives I have never seen were the Clone Wars Battle Packs from last year, but I think that had more to do with distribution than anything.
Title: Re: Larger Hoth Battle Packs
Post by: JediJman on July 24, 2010, 10:31 PM
- Big-Ass Cannon & Turret, 2x Rebels, K-3PO (http://www.rebelscum.com/sdcc10/Hasbro_Star_Wars_01/image95.asp)
- Hoth AT-ST, 2x Snowtroopers (http://www.rebelscum.com/sdcc10/Hasbro_Star_Wars_01/image83.asp) plus new AT-ST Driver (http://www.rebelscum.com/sdcc10/Hasbro_Star_Wars_01/image98.asp).   :-\

Any idea what these are going to cost?  Seems like we're getting considerably less than previous UBPs.   :-\
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jayson on July 24, 2010, 10:41 PM
$39.99 each
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Paul on July 25, 2010, 08:29 AM
I have not opened my Wal Mart AT-ST yet so I may just hold off till these hit.

The large BP's were available at only 1 Target in my immediate vicinity last time but these will definately be on my "Wish list".

Here's hoping the Hong Kong loose figure guys have that alternate Hoth Rebel and AT-St driver in 5 packs.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Darth_Anton on July 26, 2010, 01:04 PM
I'm down for two of each, though I wouldn't mind a few more At-St drivers. Also dig that the bearded trooper at least has a lighter colored beard. Wish one of the Snowtroopers was a commander though.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jeff on July 27, 2010, 09:18 PM
I didn't realize that Hasbro had packaged samples (http://www.sirstevesguide.com/index.php?categoryid=61&p2_articleid=2985) at SDCC.

Not as fancy as previous "big" battle packs, but then again I'm not buying them for the box so it matters not to me.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Diddly on July 28, 2010, 12:54 AM
Ugh. They just had to have the kind of packaging that shows off the figures.

Sorry, but theft has been rampant in my area lately, and pretty much any toy with this style of packaging has had something taken. And they'll go right for these sets, with the exclusive figures and all.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on July 28, 2010, 02:23 AM
Hasbro loves the window box, especially for the exclusives...  I'm not a big fan more because window-style packaging costs a good bit more, and we could be getting stuff for less.  That said, it's a sales thing, and usually what retail requests out of something like this.  "Make it look purdy!"

I hear ya on the theft stuff though.  Pure horse****, and increasing around the collecting world unfortunately, not just your area.  I see it a lot more, and used to never see it.  :-\
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Greedo The Green Menace on July 28, 2010, 02:38 AM
I have, fortunately, never seen the ol swap theft in my area, one of the benefits of living in a small city I suppose, we don't have a very large collector group, but I've seen plenty of reports about it online and it just makes me sad inside. I mean it's just pathetic on every level imaginable. They're toys! Of all the things to steal, a toy? Adults stealing toys, just....ugh, I can't even think of the proper word to describe how pathetic it is.

Back on topic though, I really hope these manage to make it up to Canada as they're really nice sets, I'd actually probably get em both if I saw them in person.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jabba the Slug on July 28, 2010, 12:58 PM
I'm rather surprised that Hasbro went witn an open-window box to show off the figures instead of the entire BP. I was expecting to see regular BP packaging.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Diddly on July 28, 2010, 01:15 PM
Sadly Greedo it's not just the "Swap and Return" but the thieves have turned to simply cutting open the plastic and grabbing what they want. I've seen it done to basic figures and battle packs too.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on July 28, 2010, 03:43 PM
We also got a new image today of the K-3PO loose from the Defense of Hoth Target Pack.

(http://www.jedidefender.com/news/images/1-08/010TargetPack_K3POLoose01_TN.jpg) (http://www.JediDefender.com)
Clicky to check him out!

Love the articulation, though I wasn't disappointed with the last K-3PO we got and would've much rather we got a 2nd of the beardless Hoth Rebel here.  Especially since that figure's such a rarity now.  Even with the same deco, I'd have been ecstatic.  And K-3PO isn't even outside anyway.   :-\

It's a nice figure, but probably the lowlight of the set.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: speedermike on July 28, 2010, 03:45 PM
Here's a great example of something that I just don't understnd about Hasbro.  They are always talking about character choices being "aggressive" enough to make figures out of.  So why is K-3PO in there?  Why not put in Snowspeeder Luke, or a generic Rebel pilot?  Or they could have painted one of the rebel troops with a brown vest as a vinatge nod.  Or a snow covered Chewie.  Something exciting.

Believe me, I love K-3PO and was very happy to get him in the past, but if Hasbro wants to attack kids, make the sets exciting.

BTW, I like the boxes alot.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on July 28, 2010, 04:09 PM
I hope Tunghori gets the Beardless Rebel. I will buy 10 on the spot. I am happy to get K-3PO with the BAD sculpt but to me he falls in the category of the AT-AT Driver, a figure that did not really need an upgrade yet.

I miss the blue squirt the POTJ version had. Love this set but I really hope he also gets in the AT-ST driver so I can properly man my fleet.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Nicklab on July 29, 2010, 12:17 AM
I can appreciate Hasbro trying to mix it up by including K-3PO in the Rebel set, but come on.  It was only 2008 when we got the most recent K-3PO.   And now this new version brings us to at least 3 releases of K-3PO. 

I really would have preferred another Rebel as the third pack-in.  And there were some easy options that Hasbro could have gone with.  A clean shaven trooper with the original Hoth Rebel Trooper helmet would have worked.  Or perhaps a Snowspeeder pilot.  Hobbie would have been a great candidate if Hasbro wanted to go with a named pilot, but a generic pilot would have worked equally as well.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Blaster under the pillow on August 10, 2010, 04:49 AM
I really hope this item hits retail in the UK. I've been waiting for that turret to get packed with some decent figures and at last it's happened. I agree with the comments about K-3PO though, I never thought I 'd end up army building him... but it looks like it's heading that way.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Scockery on August 10, 2010, 09:13 AM
I prefer the box with artwork to those Ultimate Battle Pack dio scenes. Those look impressive, but I see "great, packaging I'll keep that will take up too much space", because I know I'll have to keep it. A more regular box can be folded down or used to store other empty packages  :P.

Yeah, there's the theft/swapper thing. There's also the benefit of being able to look at the figures' paintjobs, though the last time they boxed a figure that was unviewable was Grievous Wheel Bike, the only one I can thing of off hand.

I wish the packs had a bit more to them, like

Imperial set: another snowtrooper, the tripod laser, a second AT-ST driver with a different head sculpt, a super articulated wampa, the Force Unleashed Hoth bonus level  Sith version of Galen "Starkiller" Mark, new probe droid with atomspheric entry shell.

Rebel set: another trooper, a new taun taun, a recast of the imperial attack base with electronic lights and sounds (new sized footpeg), EU Dash Rendar in snowspeeder pilot gear, plus his snowspeeder.

And they should be $10 cheaper... ;)
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jabba the Slug on August 10, 2010, 03:24 PM
I wish the packs had a bit more to them, like

Imperial set: another snowtrooper, the tripod laser, a second AT-ST driver with a different head sculpt, a super articulated wampa, the Force Unleashed Hoth bonus level  Sith version of Galen "Starkiller" Mark, new probe droid with atomspheric entry shell.

Now THAT would have been cool. But Hasbro meant for these sets to be based off the movie, whereas a set like this is an EU source, and, well, Hasbro hates EU this year.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Greedo The Green Menace on August 10, 2010, 08:24 PM
The only good thing about including K-3PO in this pack of otherwise army builders is that he's white, which makes him a very easy repaint into any number of different colored protocol droid. That's what I'll probably end up doing with mine.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on August 11, 2010, 04:51 PM
I will be buying at least 4 of this set but definitely intend to customize at least one of the extra K-3P0's to have the blue splatter when he was destroyed. I cannot wait for these sets, I am very much looking forward to both.

C'mon Tunghori get in the beardless Rebel....
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Darth_Anton on August 12, 2010, 12:09 PM
I had only planned to build one squad of nine of the Rebel Hoth troopers when they came out last year, so with four of the dark bead troopers, only getting two of the defense sets should do me just fine. A Derlin type serves as squad leader until a tan vested version come out.

But again, these hit clearance, all bets are off.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Hobbie on September 22, 2010, 11:53 PM
Re:  3rd K-3PO in like 3 years.

I'll agree with you guys that think that another army builder rebel trooper should have gone in here, but would also like to point out that there are a lot of cool droids that have never been done that could have replaced K-3PO as well.  There's at least one unique Gonk droid (bottles on the sides), and 5 distinct astromech droids (red R2, black stripe R4, Yellow & black R2, yellow & gray R3, orange R2), that were all in the hangar and have never been made and would certainly been a bigger boost to sales than that overdone white 3PO.  Heck, they could have even repacked the multi-armed treadwell in the set since that was in the hangar as well, and while not new, is still more interesting than having extra K-3POs roaming around.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on September 23, 2010, 01:45 AM
I'm kind of in the opinion that, since these sets aren't really having anything to do with the hangar though, they're even less appropriate for droids... of any kind.  That's just me though.  I really would've liked to see another Hoth Rebel Trooper since we've got so few of any quality.

Hell, he blew out here pretty fast in 2008 even.  Wish I'd seen probably another 20 more of him.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Darby on September 23, 2010, 01:19 PM
Yeah, they needed to have another trooper.  K-3PO is a mystery, especially when the POTJ still has the most accurate deco.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: CHEWIE on September 23, 2010, 01:57 PM
The real mystery is how they can give K-3PO a figure this good, but for Goldenrod, we get crapped on.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: darth broem 2 on September 23, 2010, 05:52 PM
The real mystery is how they can give K-3PO a figure this good, but for Goldenrod, we get crapped on.

No kidding Chewie.  Although my son and I do have fun with the current C-3PO dismantling him and stuff.\, but he needs a ultra accurate sculpt someday.  This would have been a nice way to have put out a Torryn Farr IMO.  Although I would rather have her carded someday. 
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Hobbie on September 23, 2010, 08:09 PM
Yeah, they should have gone with a trooper, but choosing K-3PO over an unmade droid is just weird.  It does nothing to get collectors interested in this set like an unmade character would have.  There's even a dark gray 3PO unit in the hangar that they could have gone.  Bad choice, Hasbro. 
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on October 5, 2010, 04:23 PM
Some guys over at Scum found these at retail in several states. DCPI 087-06-2249

Start looking! This is going to be a very expensive month...
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on October 5, 2010, 06:47 PM
Ugh.   :(
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Scockery on October 5, 2010, 08:56 PM
Ugh.   :(

I don't think there's Ultimate Galactic Hunt versions of these packs.  ;)
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Morgbug on October 5, 2010, 08:57 PM
Ugh.   :(

Y'know Jesse if you're tired of things showing up at retail too frequently we've got room for you up here.  The Pemmican is to die for. 
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on October 5, 2010, 10:47 PM
Actually I just don't feel like looking for this.  I want it, but the last UBP's they had weren't exactly wildly abundant, nor were the first ones...  I dunno.  I just loathe tracking down stuff at Target sometimes, much like WM other times.  When they get in few of something, which UBP's they tend to, it's a pain in the ass because of the people who use the DPCI's for everything.  Though I do love Target's inventorying system, and generally their stuff's easiest to get.  "I have a bad feeling about this" just washes over me with these sets is all.

BTW, as per  our Front Page Story (http://www.jedidefender.com/newspro/fullnews.cgi?newsid1286346476,22052,), these Ultimate Battlepacks for Hoth may have a general date to start looking for them on the shelves as well.  :)  Thanks to our Target Source for that tip.

There are a couple other interesting things making that list.  ???
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: speedermike on October 6, 2010, 02:03 PM
I agree, it just isn't worth the hassle.  This is what I was talking about in the "TVC will fail" thread.  Long-time, super collectors just aren't enthused about enough of the product.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: P-Siddy on October 6, 2010, 02:46 PM
Especially when one of those figures should have been a single-carded released last year. And another is something we already have and don't need another.  :(
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on October 6, 2010, 05:56 PM
Personally, I am actually excited these sets. I have been hunting for them calling every local Target the last three days. I really like the new Radar Laser Cannon a lot and all of the repaints included in both sets are solid figures. The Cleaner AT-ST and Snowtroopers are also welcome, I plan on phasing out a large portion my older Snowtroopers for this version. I do hope the Beardless Rebel and AT-ST Driver see single carded releases in the near future. I just wish Tunghori got those two in so I would not have to buy so many sets. As of now, I plan on buying 5 Rebel sets and 3-4 Imperial ones. I will be selling off some Turrets, Radar Dishes, E-Webs, At-ST's and E-3P0's if anyone is just looking for those items. The Value of these sets are really good when you consider the AT-ST was $44 last year alone. I am even looking forward to Geo sets 2 so I hope they pop up soon too.

It seems some guys just lost the loving feeling toward SW's and nothing makes them happy anymore.  No insult intended but I see this attitude across some boards, I do not blame them because the line still seems to be struggling to get it's footing back. My only disappointment with the line overall is the slowdown & long waits between releases for the realistic line. I am ready for new stuff...now!
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JesseVader08 on October 6, 2010, 07:09 PM
I'm actually getting pretty excited for them too.  Hoth army builders for both sides, and an AT-ST and Rebel cannon.  Damn, I'm stoked to find these!  Yeah, K-3PO is kind of a head shaker, but oh well.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: iFett on October 6, 2010, 07:46 PM
Ya I'm looking forward to these sets as well - just not hounding stores trying to find them since I live in the land of Target.   :)  Hope to find a few on clearance as well after the holidays.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Darth_Anton on October 6, 2010, 09:48 PM
I'm a sucker for anything that will increase my troop numbers, and these will do nicely.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Greedo The Green Menace on October 6, 2010, 10:41 PM
I'm pretty pumped for these as well, I've got a bit of OT withdraw going, so it'll be nice to build up that collection again. Looking forward to the rebels set most, and will probably wait on the Imperials just cuz the only new thing in there for me is the At-St driver. As for the U-3PO, I'm thinking I'll just paint him black or green, or maybe gold in an attempt to make the Ultimate C-3PO. 
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: speedermike on October 6, 2010, 11:30 PM

It seems some guys just lost the loving feeling toward SW's and nothing makes them happy anymore.  No insult intended but I see this attitude across some boards, I do not blame them because the line still seems to be struggling to get it's footing back. My only disappointment with the line overall is the slowdown & long waits between releases for the realistic line. I am ready for new stuff...now!

Jack, no offense taken.  However, it seems that right now, the things that make me happy (Big At-At, Darth Sidious, Magna Guard, a few CW figures and some of the Deluxe speeders in the CW line) seem to be outweighed by things that I already own, or simply don't interest me.  Or things that I kind of like, such as these Hoth sets, but I don't have the time or burning desire to hunt them down.  In a way, I've always hated exclusives, and feel that they are the ass-end of collecting.  They fall into the "but it now, because you wont ever get a chance again" catagory, and I don't like feeling that way with large items.

I love this line, and I really, really want to support it.  I have a wall of amazing figures that in 1995 I wouldn't have dreamed that Hasbro would actually make, but right now, there is so much re-use of molds and product, and the new character choices are so conservative, that I'm just not feeling it.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Blaster under the pillow on October 7, 2010, 04:39 AM
I'm really looking forward to the Defence pack, I've wanted a turret since back in the vintage days. When it came out in the UBP, I just couldn't warrant buying, with the turret being the sole reason for picking it up. Han and Luke just looked plain weird to me.

This is the release I've been waiting for... now I just hope it turns up in the UK.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on October 7, 2010, 10:45 PM
I was out, and decided to see if I could figure out how easy/hard it would be to get these sets.  I checked around to see how many were in stock, and since I didn't like what I was hearing I decided to act and get what I wanted now since I was out and about anyway.  Got both sets, like both sets.  Wish I could buy 50 (100% serious) of the Hoth Rebel and AT-ST Pilot though.  :'(

It's a travesty these two figures aren't basic line fodder right now.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on October 8, 2010, 03:00 AM
So I've opened both sets...  Some thoughts on both:

-People will definitely feel the Imperial set is the bigger value...  The Rebels get a new anti-vehicle artillery piece (Radar Cannon), which is outstanding, but the Laser Artillery Tower is simplistically designed and constructed, and I can easily see people being much happier with the perceived value of the Imperial's set giving you a big assed AT-ST.

-The Hoth Rebel Trooper Variant is glorious, but goofy in a way too.  He's really a great figure in every way of course...  He's the Rebel Trooper we all wish we had more of since he's the basic infantry grunt and not the support gunner with the repeating blaster.  Still though, his helmet is funny because hasbro cast it so the goggles are see-through, even though they're up on his hat...  so, basically, you can see through his hat.  That's kind of weird. :)  He's a pretty flawless generic Rebel infantryman though, and it sucks Hasbro isn't giving us this guy on a Legends card.

-The Hoth Rebel Trooper Repaint is pretty glorious too though...  All these army builders Hasbro makes are generic, yet somehow distinctive, and they could easily repaint any of them I think, and resell them to us.  Hasbro gives you a standard rifle for him as well, which is the new sculpt Dak is toting around.  It's a nice complement to the repeating blaster he comes with too since I know I have a lot of that gun and not enough of the basic rifle.

-The Laser Tower is indeed a simplistic large accessory, but I still love it.  It's pretty right in scale, it has the opening door and hatch...  It's a better paintjob than the UBP release a while back.  I love it.  They included a sticker for the inside of the door now too, by the way.  Kind of neat, though stickers are meh to me.

-The Anti-Vehicle Gun (Radar Laser Cannon) is a 100% new sculpt, and it's NICE!  Tons of detail in it, far superior to the original modern incarnation of this artillery piece.  There are two flaws though.  It doesn't have the tank tread bottom sculpted on it, and it doesn't tilt up/down like previous versions.  That's a little disappointing.  It's more accurately scaled though (a bit larger, actually), features a cool accurate sight thing on the back, the silver panels on the radar dish thing are actually sculpted an d painted now, and it even features two opening panels on the back to expose the electronics inside the main assembly of the gun. 

It's a good bit better than I imagined.  Add to that, that it has an ammo/power box now that connects to it with a flexible hose, and it's really cool.  Even the ammo box thing is so neat I wish I had a dozen of them.

-K-3PO is the Build-A-Droid sculpt...  He feels kind of flimsy, but he's not a horrible figure.  IMO though, they should've added a repaint of the Variant Hoth Rebel Trooper.  A blonde or black haired Trooper would've been nice, maybe with a white or dark brown scarf deco. 

Either way I would've gladly taken another Hoth Rebel over K-3PO.  Even an update to Riekean or Derlin would've been cooler.  Maybe even a generic officer for the trenches?  K-3PO was a pretty lame choice.  How many versions of him are there now?  What a weird figure to have so many incarnations in plastic.

-The Imperial set, again, is the one I think people will value more.  The AT-ST alone makes the set really pop.  It's a big, poseable, super awesome pack-in. 

-The AT-ST has a sort of simpler deco than the Endor version, on one hand, but on the other hand it has added details the Endor Walker just lacks.  All the gun  barrels for instance are painted black, giving them some added realism for sure.  There are a couple added silver details in the cockpit.  The cleaner deco may appeal to some collectors more than the Endor's more dirty and grimey look. 

It's molded in a lighter plastic too, giving it that added clean look to it.  The darker grey spray detailing on the body stands out more on this walker as well.  I think many people will want this one over their Endor version, should they only want one walker on the collection shelf.

-The Imperials are a nicer deco as well...  Many people will like these Snowtroopers over the Legends figure currently available, or previous decorations of the Imperial Snowtroopers.  He also sports the new more narrow stance, which is nice of course.

-The AT-ST Driver is really the only new thing in the set.  He's a bit tall, features a removable helmet that's smaller than the AT-AT Commander's helmet (I think), and he too features goggles that cannot be put on him over the helmet as they should be.  They're thick, and when on the head, they flare the helmet out in a goofy way.

He is a bit tall though, like I said.  I'm surprised Hasbro would go to the trouble of a 100% new sculpt for a figure that they have the base already available for in the Scanner Technician.  He has a ball-jointed torso, which is cool, but all they needed to do was give him new forearms for the gloved hands, and a new head, and the Scanner Technician would've been perfect. 

I'd take an army of this figure though.  Oh, and yes I think the straps he comes with are intended to be the seatbelts of the AT-ST "in real life", but for some reason Hasbro gave them as an accessory as part of the uniform.  The weird thing is, they are in EU materials as a web-harness for backpacks and other gear, as the AT-ST driver is the basic Imperial Army Trooper's uniform/look, and the  web gear is part of that.  Maybe it's Hasbro throwing a little fan wank to the EU folks into that stuff, such as myself?  I dig it.

-Much like K-3PO in the Rebel set, I would've probably preferred to have something OTHER than a tri-pod cannon.  The E-Web gun is very overscaled compared to what it should be in the films.  I can't tell if this is a 100% new item or a re-used sculpt.  I'm pretty sure it's at the very least mostly re-used.  Something about the handles on the back seems new to me, but I could be wrong.  They replaced the accurate projectile at the gun's barrel too, which completed the previous release's gun, with a "blaster fire" projectile.  This leaves the tip of the gun inaccurate, actually.

Either way though, I'd rather had another figure in place of the tri-pod gun, or some kind of equipment, or something they made up like a rocket launcher, or even a 2nd AT-ST Driver with a different hair color.  *shrugs*

My final verdict though, is that both sets are pretty cool.  As a Rebel fan, I'm partial to the Rebel set...  As a figure/toy reviewer though, I think the Imperial set delivers the bang for the buck!  The Rebel set is more like a playset, and it's simpler/less "mobile", and the big pieces may not be that exciting to many people for the $40 price.  I mean, the other set has a friggin' AT-ST folded up inside it!?  That's pretty slick. 

Happy hunting though.  These are two of the cooler modern items coming out for the line in 2010 I think.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Blaster under the pillow on October 8, 2010, 03:54 AM
Thanks for the in depth review Jesse. I originally just wanted the Rebel set, but you've made me want to pick up both.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: McMetal on October 8, 2010, 09:22 AM
I was out, and decided to see if I could figure out how easy/hard it would be to get these sets.  I checked around to see how many were in stock, and since I didn't like what I was hearing I decided to act and get what I wanted now since I was out and about anyway. 

How exactly did you do this? Did you just hoof it, or did you call up on the phones to check stock via the DCPI's? Or use that IPhone App?

I haven't been able to find any of the new exclusives on their website yet, so I can't seem to check store availability that way, ala Walmart.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Brian on October 8, 2010, 10:27 AM
Yeah, thanks for the review Jesse.  I also originally just planned to pick up the Rebel set, but now you have me considering the Imperial one as well.  I picked up two of the AT-STs from last year, but wouldn't mind having another, and it sounds like this one is pretty spiffy looking as well.  It will all depend on the budget when the time comes, as I definitely want the new Rebel (wish they would put that on a Legends card like you said) and the Radar Laser Cannon.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Darth_Anton on October 8, 2010, 09:56 PM
These are starting to show up in the computer, should start getting on the shelves any day. Can't wait.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Scockery on October 8, 2010, 10:52 PM
Some folks are saying the AT-ST is flimsier than last year's version. I never got last year's version.

Technically, wasn't the ESB AT-ST model different from the ROTJ one?

I was wondering about the treads on the radar laser.

I agree, since you can get the tripod laser in the mass release battle pack, something else would've been better.  Though, knowing Hasbro, it would've been the Probot Probe Droid again.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on October 9, 2010, 12:27 AM
Personally I don't believe this AT-ST to be flimsier...  The original Endor one from last year is actually fairly unstable, if you mess with it much, and the new one isn't much different at all.

The debate of the AT-ST didn't come up here but I read it at some otheR Site's forums that were filled with the usual, "Who cares?  You're an idiot for complaining about it!" type of stupidity.

Basically though, it's not even a technicality.  The original AT-ST model for ESB was almost not in the film till Lucas saw it, loved it, and put it in as a scout vehicle for the larger AT-AT's.  It's a completely different model than the ROTJ AT-ST's, which were redesigned a little bit.

Some people say it's just a different make/style of walker (for squeezing it into the EU).  It's completely different though.  THere are similarities, but significant differences from the POV of details.  It's a bit taller as well, while the ROTJ design is a more squat one.

The vintage AT-ST and its re-issues are based on the ESB AT-ST, as that's when the toy was made/put out originally.  The AT-ST we got at WM last year was actually the first time an accurate depiction of the Endor styled models was ever put out for figures.

Me, I'd love an accurate Hoth AT-ST, but I think Hasbro's content with this design and will forever ignore the relatively obscure ESB one, which is difficult to see in the movies by comparison.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: EpicGon on October 9, 2010, 03:18 PM
The at st driver has evolved a lot, his legs look more realistic than previous versions, the harness has grey and silver applications
It looks that the 2 snowtroopers differ in height, but a bit only.

The turret is cool, I wish they haven´t used decal / stickers this time on its interior, but good job. A nice set too.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Darth_Anton on October 11, 2010, 01:05 AM
Snagged these for myself and have to agree with Jesse on just about every point. Really miss the Rebel soldier accessory and am a little disappointed that the radar dish doesn't pivot. Really nice little set otherwise. As for the Attack set, boy howdy is that driver tall. The helmet is also less than useless. Very disappointing. I'm using an At-At commanders goggles in stead. Love that the torso easily comes apart to remove the straps. Hate the laser cannon. That will go in a not-for-use box. I think I got a good walker. The joints are all fine and the head says on better that the WM ones I have.

I'm re-thinking whether or not I'm going to spring for an additional set of each before they hit clearance. Perhaps if so much wasn't coming out all in one sitting.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on October 11, 2010, 12:18 PM
I picked up two of each set on Saturday via the DCPI trick. I must say that I am very happy with these sets and plan on buying a few more of each. JJ gave a great review already so I will try to keep mine shorter.

(I actually like the Defense set a little bit better so I will admit my bias upfront.)

Defense set
- The Hoth Rebels are really great while I would have prefferred another beardless one they at least redecoed the head. The Beardless head is really well done. I would have loved to have more of these to swap with Rebel Techs and other troop builders. Kudos to Hasbro for giving them each the new Dak rifle tool as well! while even tossing in a small cannon.

BTW - The clear goggles do not bother me at all. My guess is that the second head and the second helmet actually share the same tool and the bearded one. You can actually shut parts of a tool off when you do a production run. To maximize the tool and have an efficient production run it's quite common so I amm 99% sure this is the case which would explain the mold color and why they did not run the same heads for each.

- K-3P0 at first may not be as good as another Rebel but he is way better than the 2008 BP version. This mold is great, I do agree that he seems like he has a softer plastic than previous BAD parts. All proto droids should use this mold.
- Turret, I agree with JJ that the deco is better than the previous one. The sticker does not bother me and appeared to be a shout to the Vintage one.
- The Radar Laser was my favorite part of this set, it's so well done. I personally am not bothered by the missing pivoting action. I like the opening panels on either side plus the energy box.

Attack Set
- 2 Clean Helmet Snowtroopers! Finally no Wampa dung splatter. Minor change but one paint op that always bothered me on an otherwise perfect figure.
- AT-ST Driver was more than meets the eye! I thought he was built off of the Scanner tool at first glance but he truly is 100% new. The head sculpt is also really well done here and I am going to try and swap with a Hoth Trooper. Like JJ my only complaint is the goggle/helmet combo just does not work together.
- E-Web Canon. I prefer the POTF2 one with the pipe/ammo box but it's still cool they packed it in.
- Hoth AT-ST, I actually like this deco more than the first and it seems just as sturdy as the first EXCEPT the head/body neck connector. That does seem looser on the two I purchased.

Regardless of what you feel about these sets $39.99 is a really good value for whats in both of these sets despite some of the minor complaints. Kudos to Hasbro on these sets, I hope we see more like this with other OTC themes.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Pete_Fett on October 12, 2010, 07:57 AM
I'm gonna have to try some Targets today - my local Target has 10/17 in the hand-scanners when you ask someone to look up the item by DPCI #.

The employee I asked on Sunday was downright rude about it too.

Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on October 12, 2010, 12:04 PM
I picked up two more sets yesterday and the box states they are ok to sell AFTER 10/6. So they should give you no beef about pulling these from the back.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on October 12, 2010, 03:02 PM
The issue I've found is that if they don't have shelf space, they tend to not want to bring it out because they can't leave the opened case in the back.  So if you're buying a case, it works out, but if you're not then they don't want to (can't?) because it's against the rules they're given (if they can't find shelf space for it).
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: McMetal on October 12, 2010, 03:09 PM
The issue I've found is that if they don't have shelf space, they tend to not want to bring it out because they can't leave the opened case in the back.  So if you're buying a case, it works out, but if you're not then they don't want to (can't?) because it's against the rules they're given (if they can't find shelf space for it).

I was thinking about this last night actually. I had them crack open a fresh case of the TCW 2-packs for me, and after I took the 2 mintiest ones I wanted, the dude wandered off with the open case and I wondered where he was headed with them because there was no shelf space or tag out whatsoever in the SW section. I assumed he just put them back in the stockroom but maybe not if that is against policy.

I may stop there after work just to see.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Pete_Fett on October 12, 2010, 03:52 PM
Yeah - I was able to get the Geonosis 2-packs and the Clone Wars 2-packs today - so I may head back to that same Target and try to the DPCI trick on these or the exclusive Clone Wars battle packs.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Captain Piet on October 12, 2010, 06:06 PM
You go, Pete.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Pete_Fett on October 12, 2010, 10:35 PM
Yeah - go me! hehe...

I opened up the Defense of Hoth set just now and it's great. The new laser canon is pretty cool - would have been nice if the dish could have pivoted, but that's only a minor negative.

I'm glad to finally have my hands on the beardless Hoth Rebel Trooper. Considering that they are the exact same paint deco body-wise, it really is crappy that Hasbro just didn't throw this head and head-wrap accessory in with the TLC release.

Hopefully Hasbro will give us a way to army-build this version at some point in the future.

I am definitely leaning towards picking up a second Defense of Hoth BP just to snag the extra playset pieces and the beardless Hoth Trooper.

The build-a-droid repaint is fine, definitely the weakest part of the set IMHO.

I know some people have complained about the value on this set, but I think it's pretty good. These sets could have been in window-box packaging and cost $60 each if Hasbro and Target really wanted to go that route. Thankfully, they kept them sensibly priced at $40 each.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: McMetal on October 12, 2010, 10:37 PM
I did end up swinging by the Target after work that I had hit last night and there was no sign of any of those 2-packs to be seen anyplace on the SW aisle. So they must have stashed them someplace, I guess til the endcap goes up. Interesting.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JesseVader08 on October 13, 2010, 04:36 AM
I've been enjoying reading everyone's reviews of these sets, it just encourages me to get my hands on them!  8)
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Pete_Fett on October 13, 2010, 08:39 AM
I did end up swinging by the Target after work that I had hit last night and there was no sign of any of those 2-packs to be seen anyplace on the SW aisle. So they must have stashed them someplace, I guess til the endcap goes up. Interesting.


Yeah - the Targets I've gotten stuff at have been DPCI pulls and the only time I didn't take the entire case was with the Clone Wars 2-packs. I left them on a peg that is normally designated for the SW Transformers and when I went back to the same Target later yesterday, they were all still there (minus the one Senate Commando set I had left).

Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jabba the Slug on October 13, 2010, 04:02 PM
Apparently there's a 2-per-customer limit on these.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Dan on October 13, 2010, 04:28 PM
I picked up the AT-ST set today- I like that the packaging isn't over the top, but it does make it a little harder for a gift giver to see the $40 worth of value-
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: jedi_master_sal on October 13, 2010, 04:29 PM
Apparently there's a 2-per-customer limit on these.

That's fine. I'll get a set of each and my wife will pick up an extra Rebel set for me. (That's if I can find them...)
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Pete_Fett on October 13, 2010, 05:45 PM
Apparently there's a 2-per-customer limit on these.

Well thank goodness I already have two of each and all I need now is a second Defense of Hoth opener set.

That would have upset me greatly to have been denied a third Rebel set if I had waited until the 17th.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Rob on October 13, 2010, 09:18 PM
I waltzed into Target today with the DCPI and was able to pick these up.  If only Wal-mart had their **** together like this.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: McMetal on October 13, 2010, 09:45 PM
Saw both on the shelves for the first time tonight. Target had done kind of a half-assed reset, none of the TCW exclusives were out, but they had the Vintage packaged vehicles and Big BP's.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: P-Siddy on October 13, 2010, 10:19 PM
I saw these tonight, too. Was very tempted, but the wife was tagging along.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Greedo The Green Menace on October 14, 2010, 01:55 AM
So those who have the defense on Hoth set, are the rebels headgear swappable? I can't really tell from the photos.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Darth_Anton on October 14, 2010, 09:24 AM
Yes. Easily.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on October 14, 2010, 02:36 PM
Oh yeah, the headgear's all about the same size.

I put Hoth Han's hat on some of my troopers too, and plan to swap out some Hoth Han legs with them maybe.  I have a hat I planned to cast at some point as well, without a scarf, which should add some diversity.  I've also added cloth scarves to a helmet or two, because I like the idea of the cloth hanging down like Luke's hat, or the vintage Reb Commander's hat had.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: darth broem 2 on October 15, 2010, 11:47 AM
I'm gonna have to try some Targets today - my local Target has 10/17 in the hand-scanners when you ask someone to look up the item by DPCI #.

The employee I asked on Sunday was downright rude about it too.



When they are rude like that I just keep on bugging them about stuff.  "Where's the toilet paper at?  Do you know where I can find some toenail clippers?  Where?  Oh....okay."  Yeah, I'm odd.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: iFett on October 15, 2010, 12:21 PM
Question on the Rebel set - does the box feel a tad too light?  I generally don't open the majority of my stuff, but it's nice to know I don't have a big box with just 3 figures and nothing else....   :-\
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: GrandMoffNick on October 15, 2010, 12:23 PM
Question on the Rebel set - does the box feel a tad too light?  I generally don't open the majority of my stuff, but it's nice to know I don't have a big box with just 3 figures and nothing else....   :-\

I didn't buy it, but I do remember thinking "man this feels empty" when I looked at it.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on October 15, 2010, 03:01 PM
Compared to the AT-ST set, it's lighter since the stuff in it is smaller.  The Hoth Turret's pretty hollow.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Morgbug on October 15, 2010, 07:09 PM
Found both of these in Canada (Zellers stores) today.  The onslaught continues.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Matt_Fury on October 15, 2010, 10:49 PM
I saw these today.  I thought they'd be more tan $40.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JesseVader08 on October 21, 2010, 03:34 AM
Just playing with my new toys...  ;D 

I'd love to get a couple more of each of these Battle Packs - they're damn sweet when combined with the AT-AT.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v687/JesseVader08/P1050321a.jpg)
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on October 21, 2010, 09:43 AM
Great pic! They do absolutely rock!

I pick up my 4th set of each yesterday. I may get 1 more set of each as I now feel satisfied with my Turret/Radar Count. I can always use more Rebel troopers too! These are proving to be very popular, so far every set I picked up has been through the DCPI code as they are either sold out or Target did not set up the end cap.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Brian on October 21, 2010, 02:17 PM
Nice pic Jesse, thanks for sharing.  We haven't seen these put out here locally yet, but I hope to at least pick up the Rebel set - and if the budget allows, both of them.  Looking at your set up there, it really illustrates what a good year it has been for the ESB, with the anniversary and all.  Particularly with the Hoth battle alone - we've gotten the new AT-AT, the new Snowspeeder, now these two battle packs (one including the nicely done AT-ST), not to mention the other figures we've seen.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: CloneF13Y35 on October 21, 2010, 03:03 PM
I saw the sets on Tuesday for the first time, THey are very cool. Since I got the new AT-ST last year, I think I'd prefer the rebel set. My son wants both, naturally ;)
I also noticed that the rebel set is lighter in weight than the empire set due to the walker.
Very good year for Empire Strikes back toys, to be sure!
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: EpicGon on October 23, 2010, 11:19 PM
It´s amazing how the radar laser cannon has evolved
of course the atst driver guy.

In a eu where troopers are showing variations, perhaps considering the cold weather, the atst driver from hoth could have been dressed more like a atat driver (as in vintage cardfronts), this is up to Hasbro to define this variation.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Darth_Anton on October 24, 2010, 09:38 AM
That's the way I've always looked at it, that the At-At drivers also drove the At-St's on Hoth and the At-St drivers also drove the At-At's on Endor.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on October 24, 2010, 11:50 PM
I always viewed the AT-AT Driver's armor and chest box as something of a requirement for the vehicle, for some reason.  More than a contained heating unit deal anyway.  *shrugs*

I really like that the AT-ST driver's harness comes off easily with the new ball/socket torso design Hasbro's using.  It's neat because, in the EU, some drivers in the same basic outfit are seen with the harness deal on.  It fits with the notion that the "AT-ST Driver" outfit is simply the outfit of the Imperial Army Trooper (the basic soldier of the Empire).  It's a tad tall, but i'd buy a buttload of this guy if he were available individually.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on October 24, 2010, 11:59 PM
BTW I also noticed that the Imperial Attack on Hoth set is flying...  the Rebel set, not so much.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on November 9, 2010, 01:20 AM
Picked up another Rebel set...  I'm doing well on these and going to probably call it quits now unless they surface at deep discount.  At this rate though, there's little left here.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: CHEWIE on November 9, 2010, 03:51 PM
That's the way I've always looked at it, that the At-At drivers also drove the At-St's on Hoth and the At-St drivers also drove the At-At's on Endor.

Definitely - makes complete sense to me.  I can't image people in snow suits driving AT-ATs on Endor, or some other planet with a warmer climate.

As for the new AT-ST driver, I'd also buy a ton of this figure were he available in the basic carded format.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on November 9, 2010, 03:59 PM
The thing is though, the AT-AT driver's suit is unique, but not really a snow suit...  It's just a jumpsuit with a helmet and chest box like a pilot has.  So is it "cold weather", or is it specific to the vehicle they drive since it's perhaps complex?  The AT-ST driver's uniform is a lot more simplistic, possibly because the AT-ST doesn't require anything more than a standard army uniform to hop in and go.

My only gripe on the AT-ST driver is his height.  He's pretty tall.  I'm still perplexed why they'd sculpt a figure from the ground-up when the Scanner Tech gave them 80% of the parts they'd need.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: CHEWIE on November 9, 2010, 04:50 PM
Decided to look this up, because to me their outfits always looked like they were equipped for colder weather.Imperial Army Pilot (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army_pilot)

AT-AT pilots wore their armor as a reminder of their combat history. AT-ATs were not climate controlled, therefore pilots sent to operate on snowy worlds such as Hoth wore armor with a heating unit in order to survive in the cold. They were dressed completely in white with snow boots, a jumpsuit with pockets, and an armor vest with straps around their groin and legs. Their helmets had polarized snow goggles for enhanced visibility and were adorned with an Imperial Army emblem in red. The helmets were connected directly to vehicle's computer, allowing easy monitoring of its vital systems.[3] A computer on their chest armor heated their suit and helmet. The survival pack worn by these pilots was an advanced design which enabled the suit systems and heater to run off a single power pack for up to five days without requiring a recharge. They wore driving gauntlets with a comlink for communication. These pilots were usually armed with a blaster pistol and grenades.

While they were not required to, due to the cockpit of AT-AT being pressurized, AT-AT drivers usually wore their life-support gear and armor as last line of defense, in case the hull was breached in a hostile atmosphere. The life-support gear and helmet worn by the AT-AT pilots were similar to the gear worn by TIE pilots, except for being light gray and some other small customizations.


I dunno... if they had actually shown a driver in the AT-AT on Endor, I don't think he would have been wearing a white uniform, perhaps more of the AT-ST jumpsuit, with a black or gray AT-AT driver helmet.  Just a thought... might make for an interesting custom.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on November 9, 2010, 07:58 PM
They're not wearing a white uniform though...  They're wearing the grey jumpsuits everyone else is.  And if Snowtrooper boots are indicative of snow boots, then the AT-AT driver isn't wearing snowboots either.  Just a different kind of boot...  could be snow, could be boots with magnetic seals on them incase they have to leave the vehicle in a 0-G environment to work on the hull of the walker anywhere.  It's just as plausible to me.

For the record, the TIE Pilot's jumpsuit (and basically every other jumpsuit the Empire has) are the same style/pattern, and the TIE Pilot's is a pressurized and heated system for deep space.  So the jumpsuit could insulate you against the cold too.  I think it probably does, if you have the armor/helmet/chest box thing to go with it.

I've always viewed them as just wearing gear tapped into the AT-AT's more complex systems though, and that off-duty they're rocking the black kepi and black boots like a "scanner tech", for their downtime, and Gunners are rocking the black kepi ala their look in ANH on the Destroyer, and TIE Pilots are doing the same thing, and so on.  It's their version of utilities.

The red logos have always struck me as a bull**** thing too...  They're Imperial Army logos supposedly, but yet nobody wears them but AT-AT Drivers?  I doubt it then.  To me it's more logical they're the emblems of trained AT-AT drivers or of specific Imperial divisions or something.  No AT-ST driver sports them though, and nobody else seen in the movies has red logos.

The "AT-AT Drivers are in snow gear" just came about recently I think, as well...  Other material said it's the uniform of the driver, required for the vehicle...  The AT-AT's cockpit is clearly heated in some capacity as well, as Veers isn't wearing anything special but combat armor.  Also his breath wasn't visible...  My breath's visible in my car this month and we're not even out of fall.  :)

I agree though, that the AT-AT Driver's uniform probably would heat the driver's suit, and such.  It's probably ideal for cold weather, or all situations, even a planet without oxygen, or in deep space like on an asteroid's surface for instance.  I see it though as a necessity to lock into the AT-AT's system...  You can take it off, but operating the walker without it is pretty much impossible, ya know?  And it serves the purpose of letting the pilots take a walk outside in ANY atmospheric condition, or lack of atmosphere all together.

Hell, the Wookieepedia article says that AT-AT drivers were selected from, "Hardened combat troopers"...  Why?

Because people like to write things that sensationalize the mundane I guess, especially in Star Wars EU, and make things so complex it's insane.  ::)  Tank drivers aren't picked from hardened combat troops...  Hardened combat troops are needed for combat leadership roles.  AT-AT's are just basically tanks, with tank crews trained to run them, like real tanks get.  Some are better or more experienced than others, and they're hand-picked for leadership roles in armor combat duties and such, like the tank aces of World War 2.

Now, if the AT-AT Drivers were sporting actually all white uniforms, and looked like they were actually wearing special gear that looked like cold weather stuff, I'd probably think differently of it.  They really aren't though.  Their boots are different though...  I maintain that they could just have magnetic seals in them too though.  Like I said, it's equally possible I suppose.  The armor's white, but that's not foreign in the Empire either.  Even "Scouts" who should be employing some level of stealth wear the white armor.  Though I doubt the Imperial Army's regular divisions are so bold in the white armor, haha. :)
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Scockery on November 12, 2010, 08:27 PM
The thing is though, the AT-AT driver's suit is unique, but not really a snow suit...  It's just a jumpsuit with a helmet and chest box like a pilot has.  So is it "cold weather", or is it specific to the vehicle they drive since it's perhaps complex?  The AT-ST driver's uniform is a lot more simplistic, possibly because the AT-ST doesn't require anything more than a standard army uniform to hop in and go.

My only gripe on the AT-ST driver is his height.  He's pretty tall.  I'm still perplexed why they'd sculpt a figure from the ground-up when the Scanner Tech gave them 80% of the parts they'd need.

1. Because tooling costs so much money, which is why the first vintage wave of 2011 is mostly repaint/rereleases.  :P

2. Because they really wanted another imperial to be in scale with the 30th Anniversary Collection Death Star Trooper.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on November 12, 2010, 11:52 PM
But that's what I'm saying (in regards to 1)...  Why not just re-use the scanner tech, add some gloved forearms, and a new head/helmet?  Instead new dude. :)
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Scockery on November 13, 2010, 12:43 PM
I know, I was mocking Hasbro's absurdity.  ;) They always mention tooling costs. But then for an exclusive, they sculpt an all new figure when they could've reused parts, then make an entire  repaint wave of $8 to $10 carded releases.

Back on subject. I got the Defense set since it was $5 off. It's okay. But really for die-hards. The turret seems so hollow and static, because it is. It makes me realize why Hasbro doesn't do playsets.  I can see why the AT-ST (attack set) is harder to locate; it just seems more fun.  Also, K-3PO figure can't sit, not that he ever did, but I'd like the option to.

Piece of a greater picture (diorama), the battle of Hoth, the set is good. Just not sure that's a road I'll pursue (money and space)...I'll enjoy it more when it snows.  :)
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: P-Siddy on November 13, 2010, 02:22 PM
I'll enjoy it more when it snows.  :)

I can send you some. Unless you want to come to the Twin Cities yourself.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Scockery on November 13, 2010, 05:39 PM
I'll enjoy it more when it snows.  :)

I can send you some. Unless you want to come to the Twin Cities yourself.

Z'all right. Michigan gets plenty of snow in due time.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: darth broem 2 on November 14, 2010, 09:31 AM
I can't find the Attack on Hoth set dangit.  Time to hit the internet I suppose.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: darth punkinhed on November 14, 2010, 12:37 PM
Have you checked with the Target staff to see if there are more in back? I keep seeing these restock, I just saw 4 of these sets yesterday. Some stores are backwards too. I find one set at one store and the other at the next. In some cases I'm seeing both. I don't believe these are too limited but they seem to only put 2 of each set out at a time. I wouldn't panic yet until after Black Friday; even then you might still get lucky. With the exception of a handful of CW figures, the BMF Falcon and wave 3 VC I'm seeing just about everything at retail right now.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on November 15, 2010, 02:12 AM
If you check the DPCI's at the scanners, they'll tell you if more are in the back...  I've not noticed any.

I actually bought 4 and returned them on my old receipt...  $20 is $20 I figured. 

Then I went and applied the $20 to yet another Rebel set, one of the ones I returned, on Saturday.  Love the set.

But you're right Scockery, on the turret...  It is "hollow".  It's a very simple design/construction.  The radar cannon is probably equally simple.  For me, they're scaled right so I loved them enough to buy extras.  But they're as simple as the Lars homestead was.  Their size justifies the cost of tooling them of course, and how often can you resell either really, but I still loved them.  I leaned on the Rebel set then, but I'm obviously fairly biased towards Rebels.

From a practical standpoint, the AT-ST (which I didn't think was badly priced last year for what you got), + 3 figures (1 brand new to boot, and the other 2 very nice), and the laser cannon (lame as it is) really looks like the better deal.  AT-ST's for basically $20-ish.  Since I stocked up on clearanced AT-ST's last year, I didn't buy more Imperial sets.  It's a good deal to me though.  The better deal, really.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: CHEWIE on November 15, 2010, 03:32 PM
I think they're both great deals! 

Really, I should have bought another of each set when they were on sale for $35.00.  The past month or so was expensive for me though and I had to be a bit conservative with my spending. 

Maybe if they go on sale again, I'll grab another Rebel set.  I prefer it because I really enjoy the "stationary" items in the line, like turrets and what very few building enviroment pieces that we actually get.  I'd happily purchase more sets in the future that had any sort of environment pieces.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Greedo The Green Menace on November 18, 2010, 04:45 AM
These were on sale here in Canada this week so I finally grabbed the rebels set. (getting the Imperial one for x-mas.) The rebels set really is fantastic though, great value, especially on sale. Even K-3PO which I wasn't really that jazzed about turned out great. I'm very tempted to pick up another set while it's on sale, the two rebels look distinct enough from one another if you swap the headgear, and K-3PO is easily painted in another color. Really pleased overall. One of the best exclusives in years.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: iFett on November 18, 2010, 12:11 PM
Question on the Hoth AT-ST.  Are the legs extremely loose on this version?  Mine are as compared to my WM version - very difficult to get it to strike a decent pose.  Did I just end up with a dud?
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on November 18, 2010, 03:54 PM
The AT-ST's legs seem looser, but my ROTJ one's legs are all a little loose themselves.  I'd say this is almost likkely an attempt to make the joints a little less prone to breaking, as the ROTJ walker's joints can snap if you're not careful because they're too tight I think.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: iFett on November 18, 2010, 07:45 PM
Interesting...I'll accept that answer.   ;)  I really dig how tight the legs on my WM version are, yes mine are very tight.  My Target AT-ST doesn't seem like it'll be able to accept the force of gravity much longer though....
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on November 18, 2010, 08:00 PM
I've had my Target one up for a while now with a "camo net" over it.  So far no problems, but it's definitely looser than the WM one next to it.  I pose mine at the hind leg joint and at the forward "hip" joints halfway between a ratcheted position.  It allows them to stand movie accurately, a little more sturdily, and taller (which is good). 

It makes the Target one feel a bit sturdier to me though, and doesn' thave all that weight forward from the head leaning forward on the seemingly looser joints.

I really think this was an attempt by Hasbro to save the joints though.  I've noticed the WM one can break at the joints where they ratchet, rather easily.  The plastic is maybe brittle, but then stressing it to pose the legs is a bad thing if that's the case.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Scockery on November 27, 2010, 02:10 PM
In a recent Q&A response Hasbro said the sets were originally planned to be bigger and more expensive. Hmmm....wonder what would've been included.


Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on November 29, 2010, 01:25 AM
I was thinking maybe both sets combined into one super pack?
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on November 29, 2010, 12:23 PM
I believe it was to include the actual Shield Generator rings. Through other Q&A's, SDCC, C5 & little tidbits from friends they alluded they had it worked up but could not get it to cost out. I think each set came with one half that would connect, it was to round out the Big AT-AT.

I would have loved it and gladly paid. I really wish Hasbro would start working in more dio's/set pieces it's an untapped area that needs to be explored. If they cry retail support they should take a page from Matty.com (minus the white screen of death) and do online only. It could even be a presale.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: CHEWIE on November 29, 2010, 04:06 PM
The shield generator would have been freaking amazing.

I'm totally down for more environment pieces.  For years I've felt Hasbro has been missing a golden opportunity...
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: tmanthegreat on November 29, 2010, 06:43 PM
I agree with the desire for more "diorama" type pieces.  They can be pretty neat and add a lot of depth and dimension to a display.  At the same time, however, I can see where Hasbro may have some reluctance to make those sort of pieces.  They often tend to be costly and sell poorly, particularly compared to the action figures and vehicles.  Look at the mixed reactions that Lars Homestead set from Toys R Us got a couple years ago.  It sure was a lot to pay for a plastic shell.  I want to say there are even still one or two to be had at at least one of my local Toys R Us stores... 

For a comparative example from another toy line, during the heyday of 21st Century Toys super-realistic Ultimate Soldier 1:18 scale Xtreme Detail military line, they released a set or diorama pieces at Toys R Us stores, consisting of a bombed-out house, brick building, barn, and a fountain.  Each set came with the various building parts, a figure or two, and other accessories.  For any military diorama, they were fantastic pieces, but they were pricey and turned out to be very poor sellers, with most just rotting on the shelves at Toys R Us.  Diorama pieces just didn't have the appeal that the planes, tanks, and soldiers had and after a couple years, what remained wound up getting sold off at severe discount. 

Even with the wider appeal that Star Wars environment or diorama items would have, I doubt they would sell all that well in the long run.  Would they be cool as heck? Yes!  Would they be a good investment on the part of Hasbro?  Probably not.   
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: iFett on November 29, 2010, 08:00 PM
I believe it was to include the actual Shield Generator rings. Through other Q&A's, SDCC, C5 & little tidbits from friends they alluded they had it worked up but could not get it to cost out. I think each set came with one half that would connect, it was to round out the Big AT-AT.

That would have been AWESOME!  I remember one of the answers coming back said that the Ion Cannon was out of the question, but I don't ever remember the question being asked about that thing.  Hopefully next year will offer up more Hothy goodness.   :)
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on December 2, 2010, 12:22 PM
There were some small rumblings at C5 and I have some...friends. I really liked the Lars Homestead (I bought both color versions) and the Sarlacc Pitt. I would really love to plunk down on more dio stuff, I think it looks great in my displays. It really is a missed opportunity, I think there are a lot of collectors like me that would happily pay. I would have no problem paying a premium for this since the cost/risk is high.

It would be great if they would revisit the possibility of Sideshow doing this. I just purchased some Chain Bases to create some Hanger scenes for my display, they are modular too. This really would be a great way to create the DS and other scenes. I cannot wait to get them so I can how how they are made.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: CHEWIE on December 2, 2010, 02:00 PM
I'm all about those display pieces too... but I think Hasbro has failed to deliver any sort of real playset in the modern line in the proper way to know either way if they would really succeed.  But it's frustrating to say the least that they haven't given in a shot yet.

And my son is only 3 years old, and already shows interest in the custom playsets that I purchased a few years back from Owen D... when we have friends over with other kids, they always are drawn to them too, and freak out... Hasbro really ought to take a second look at this sort of thing...

After all, Imaginext appears to be doing just fine with their playsets... and if Hasbro were to pitch a modular Death Star playset or some other cool environments as big ticket items, I doubt that the big retailers would pass them up.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jeff on December 2, 2010, 02:13 PM
After all, Imaginext appears to be doing just fine with their playsets...

Re: 'Imaginext'

It is sort of funny how "kids don't like playsets" yet my house is littered with an Imaginext Batcave, Joker's Funhouse, Dragon Castle, Moon Base, Sea Monster Island, Fire House, etc.  Not to mention all the LEGOs, which are essentially playsets you build yourself.  :P
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: CHEWIE on December 2, 2010, 02:51 PM
Same here... my son has several of those playsets too... when we go to the store, he is always fascinated with them.

Another thing, I don't get why Hasbro doesn't release some kid geared playsets in the Galactic Heroes line?  My son uses his little Star Wars guys (some I bought from you, ha ha) and Joe/Cobras on those Imaginext playsets.  But if he had a Galactic Heroes Death Star or that scale Cobra Terror Drome or something... he'd be one happy camper.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Scockery on December 2, 2010, 06:22 PM
The playsets of the past 15 years have been half-hearted to be kind. Some because they were movie-release cash grabs and shoehorned into a specific price point.

The only 3 3/4" playsets worth a darn in the past 10 years were vintage GI JOE reissues or Power Team Elite, a 3 3/4" military line found seasonaly at Big Lots and JC Penny online.
Battlefield Playset (http://www3.jcpenney.com/jcp/X6.aspx?GrpTyp=PRD&ItemID=196d170&DeptID=52440&CatID=77800&SO=0&x5view=1&Ne=6+1008+5+8+18+904+949+833&shopperType=G&N=4294940263&Nao=42&PSO=0&CmCatId=52440|77800)

Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on December 2, 2010, 08:05 PM
The POwer Team Elite stuff is mind-numbing...  It's usually lacking paint applications, and it's usually very simplistic (and cuts corners by making incredibly thin walls and such).  But it's really some of the cooler stuff from a collector's POV.  It sells well, but I wonder who's buying it sometimes.  Is it adults buying it for GI Joes and stuff?  Just by what goes fastest with it, I sometimes just assume it's the adults. 

For instance the figure 3-packs sell one out above any other, and it seemst o be due to the accessory it comes with.  The buildings and bridge sets tend to go quickly too.  Also the Chinese tank flew off shelves this year, as did the AFV, but things like Humvees and such didn't go so fast.  It's kind of weird how well PTE sells though.

Part of me thinks Hasbro would reply that, while "half-hearted" to collectors, they feel they put a lot of thought into their playsets in design and execution, and that they cost a pretty penny to produce.  I think a happy medium can be struck, and I think Hasbro could/should look at other options (and according to all I've ever been told, they are constantly looking at how they can do stuff).  I just don't know that collectors needs and kid-needs, will ever be met on the playset world, to get things done.  Short of it going to a company to take over anyway, and produce in limited quantity for a premium price, ala Sideshow (which would pretty much eliminate the kid-market, of course).

Hasbro doesn't show signs of wanting to let any of the 3.75" line go to anyone else though.

Clone Wars seemed like such an ideal time to try something new though, and they didn't even try.  Unless you count the big vehicles, of course.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Mister Skeezler on December 2, 2010, 08:18 PM
Are these Hoth packs still out? I went to Target a few times and haven't seen them.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on December 2, 2010, 08:21 PM
Yeah, they're around if you look, but they're largely gone from my area too Lando...  I see only Rebel sets too.  All the Imperial ones are long gone anywhere that I ever visit.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Mister Skeezler on December 3, 2010, 10:17 AM
That's fine, I'm only really looking for the rebel ones.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Brian on December 3, 2010, 10:57 AM
Sort of taking this off topic again...but regarding playsets, I think our next (and only) chance at possibly getting something is with the 3D re-releases.  I think Hasbro mentioned something (when discussing TPM's 3D release starting in 2012) that it is possible it is a time to try something "new" or something to that effect.  I could maybe....maybe....see them trying a playset (like the Death Star) when Star Wars hits theaters in 2015.  They seem to at least like to do one "big" item each year, and I think...as we've discussed here....the options might be getting lower for some of the vehicles that would realistically be done.  Sure, there are always more big vehicles, but not necessarily ones Hasbro would make.  I think if we get any playset, particularly a non-CW one, the Death Star probably stands the best chance with all the rumors and prototype stuff we've seen discussed over the years.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Scockery on December 3, 2010, 03:50 PM
The POwer Team Elite stuff is mind-numbing...  It's usually lacking paint applications, and it's usually very simplistic (and cuts corners by making incredibly thin walls and such).  But it's really some of the cooler stuff from a collector's POV.  It sells well, but I wonder who's buying it sometimes.  Is it adults buying it for GI Joes and stuff?  Just by what goes fastest with it, I sometimes just assume it's the adults. 

Just adults? I don't think so. It sells out at the local Big Lots for the most part (Unless they ship a lot back?). I think you have  1:18th military people, who buy it to customize. Then there's 3 3/4" Joe fans who do the same but aren't realism junkies. And there is, and has been, a market for lower cost military toys aimed at kids and their parents, despite all the licensed properties out there (look at TRU's generically boxed army toys section). It's not a huge market, which is why Power Team and the Chap Mei Soldier Force aren't at major retailers regularly (and why Hasbro's venerable GI JOE is destined to be a b-list property unless it has a popular media support), but it's enough that some companies keep going with it.

I forgot about Chap Mei and their lines, they do 3 3/4" playset stuff, but their stuff is hard to find in the USA. Just bits here and there at TRU and BIG LOTS. 

 
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on December 8, 2010, 03:59 PM
Yeah, they're around if you look, but they're largely gone from my area too Lando...  I see only Rebel sets too.  All the Imperial ones are long gone anywhere that I ever visit.

I have been seeing this as well , if fact they are all but gone. I bit on another set today since it's so hard to find that one, I even grabbed another Rebel one since $35 is a very good price. I really like the clean snowies and the AT-ST driver so I really wanted to load up on those sets I stopped at 6 but this 7th set was a bit of an indulgence as I been so careful with my money. If they ever release the AT-ST driver again I hope they correct the visor/helmet issue. Not sure if this was ever covered here but it's worth noting that the previous AT-ST helmets fit well on the new one:

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w298/jackoftradze/Jackoftradze%20Star%20Wars%20customs/DiBartoloSWCollectionRoomDec2010closeupI1.jpg)
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on December 8, 2010, 07:55 PM
I have a feeling we'll see the AT-ST pilot again someday.  I want to army build him bigtime since that's essentially an Imperial Army Trooper.  I can totally see myself modding Sandtrooper backpacks for him, maybe giving him some AT-AT Commander armor even, with the ranks modded appropriately.  Then they just need some good footsoldier hardware and you've got yourself an Imperial Soldier ready to roll into battle (safely behind Stormtroopers because they're pussies, of course).
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Scockery on December 8, 2010, 09:42 PM
I Then they just need some good footsoldier hardware and you've got yourself an Imperial Soldier ready to roll into battle (safely behind Stormtroopers because they're pussies, of course).

Yet, taller and stronger looking (at least going by jackoftradze's photo).

Anyway, if some guys were cloned to fight and die for the Empire, wouldn't you let them go in first?  ;)

Oh, yeah, the Hoth Attack/Defense sets are $35 again (or did they ever bo back up?), of course, locally all I see are Defense sets.

Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on December 8, 2010, 09:46 PM

Anyway, if some guys were cloned to fight and die for the Empire, wouldn't you let them go in first?  ;)

I don't know what movies you were watching, but this ain't the Clone Wars. :)  I'm talking OT when troops were individuals, and only the die-hard supporters of the new-order were willing to freely sacrifice themselves as the first to rush into the battle.

These Clones you speak of are ancient history by that point.  :P

Right Paul?
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on December 15, 2010, 03:07 PM
I wanted to pick up one more Defense set to have 8/8 but they were sold out. I will have to try another Target, these are on sale for $34.99 until the 18th.

If you have been holding out I do not think you will find these any cheaper if at all. I loved these sets, I really hope we see more of these sets next year. Focus on Endor now:

Assault on Endor
x2 New Sculpt Speederbikes
x2 Scouts
New Imperial Office SA
Redecoed POTF2 Bunker
(Throw in that nifty Ewok Log for ***** and giggles)

Defense of Endor
Endor Dirt AT-ST
Chewbacca
Oochee and Widdle
AT-ST Driver to Toss
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Mister Skeezler on December 15, 2010, 05:09 PM
That would be awesome! I would definitely buy several of those.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Scockery on December 15, 2010, 05:28 PM
I'd skip the bunker. It didn't cut it in the late 90's. They've have to up its size and put somethig on the inside.

New speeder bikes might be nice, as in NEW. I dislike the Clone Wars speeder bike mold  with it's sagging soft plastic front end. The one with the At-At can even sit on the ground well, which the Kenner one from 27 years ago could do. And I actually did like the exploding feature, even if it occassionaly activated when you didn't want it to.

Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on December 15, 2010, 08:26 PM
I'd skip the bunker. It didn't cut it in the late 90's. They've have to up its size and put somethig on the inside.

New speeder bikes might be nice, as in NEW. I dislike the Clone Wars speeder bike mold  with it's sagging soft plastic front end. The one with the At-At can even sit on the ground well, which the Kenner one from 27 years ago could do. And I actually did like the exploding feature, even if it occassionaly activated when you didn't want it to.

Seconded.

Here's what I'd probably dig seeing...

Attack On Endor:

-2 Scout Troopers w/removable helmets...  Use the Nik Sant sculpt but generic headsculpts.
-1 of the following...  Either a Black Tuniced Imperial Officer utilizing most of the AT-AT Commander Sculpt with a hat and Needa "skirt", another AT-ST Pilot with perhaps fixed goggles that fit over the helmet, or a Death Star Trooper in the jumpsuit as they appeared on Endor.  I'd probably dig the AT-ST Pilot the most.
-2 NEW Speederbikes...  I agree, the current ones suck, and I mentioned to Hasbro eons ago in the Q&A that it'd be be neat to see it sculpted small, sturdy, and with a clear stand so it appears to float, sort of like the STAP comes with.  They were receptive to the resculpts all that time ago, but it hasn't happened.  I hope it does soon though.  Part of me thinks the new Luke has the ball-jointed hips to ride a new bike a little bit better. ;)
-Endor Logs or some of the outside eqipment seen around the Bunker would be cool.  There are a couple things laying around on the ground , but anything like that to "beef up" the set would be great.

Defense on Endor:

-Nik Sant...  Using the new Endor Commando body and a new vest and head, I'd love to see that figure re-puposed as Nik Sant.
-Generic Endor Rebel...  Using the same vest and a generic headsculpt, voila, instant generic vested Endor Rebel.
-2 Ewoks...  The two who narf the AT-ST are ideal.
-Catapult (or other Ewok trap/weapon, if they can do it).
-Properly Scaled Bunker Doors/front...  I don't care if the interior is plain and hollow like the Hoth tower is, I just would like it if the doors could slide open (both sets would be cool), and that it's scaled right.  Anything less like the POTF2 one is disappointing to me because it's tiny.  It looks kind of goofy, like the POTF2 Hoth Tower looked too.

The Imperial Attack set would definitely need more than just two speederbikes though, but I think if they included that outside gear, it'd be pretty neat.  

And I'd rebuy those speederbikes if they made one with Luke, one with Leia, and a single with a biker scout.  Hell, I'd even buy it another time if they did an EU Rebel speederbike/scout too.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jeff on December 15, 2010, 10:06 PM
Assault on Endor
x2 Scouts... 
(blah blah blah)

Defense of Endor
Chewbacca... 
(blah blah blah)

Attack On Endor:
-2 Scout Troopers... 
(blah blah blah)

Defense on Endor:
-Nik Sant... 
(blah blah blah)

Not to pick your nits, but wouldn't the Empire be "defending" Endor and the Ewoks/Rebels "attacking" and/or invading?  :P

Either way, I would be down for your Endor-themed sets next year.  ;)
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on December 15, 2010, 11:14 PM
I actually thought about that too, the wording...  I always considered the Empire as sort of attacking/setting up shop on Endor and the Ewoks wanting to defend it...  if that makes sense.  I actually thought about what you're saying though, Jeff.  I wasn't sure how you word that either way.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on January 3, 2011, 02:06 AM
Got a rogue Defense of Hoth set...  Saw it floating about Target in a returns buggy in the toy dept. (Or I raided someone's cart who was buying a buttload of toys of all kinds).  $27 something for it...  I couldn't resist. 
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JediJman on January 3, 2011, 08:05 AM
Got a rogue Defense of Hoth set...  Saw it floating about Target in a returns buggy in the toy dept. (Or I raided someone's cart who was buying a buttload of toys of all kinds).  $27 something for it...  I couldn't resist. 

Nice score!  I missed out on the Attack on Hoth set and have had no luck finding one locally (flull price or clearance).  If anyone sees a spare and could grab one for me, I would really appreciate it!!!
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Jesse James on January 3, 2011, 08:52 PM
The attack set blew out here.  I saw only one at any point even near Christmas, and I think it had to have been a return because that store had been cleared out of either set just prior.

I really felt the Imperial set had to win as the "value" though...  I mean, a vehicle that was $40+ just a year previous, with a ****** pack-in figure, was suddenly now $40 with 3 pack-in figures (1 being completely new and pretty great), and a tri-pod cannon.  Sure, the cannon sucks, but stilll....

Plus the AT-ST's paintjob was pretty distinct, which is always a plus.

I never saw a Rebel set on clearance though, just the $5 off sale prices that floated about, so finding one in the returns buggy made my day.  I believe it's my 6th Rebel set.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Diddly on January 3, 2011, 11:27 PM
Spotted a lone Imperial set at Target today for $28, but I didn't have the cash on me. Still hoping I can find a Rebel set, but it's not looking good.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on February 1, 2011, 12:32 AM
FYI - If anyone is interested another China Seller has the Beardless Rebel in stock at $9.99 each:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Star-Wars-Defense-Hoth-Rebel-Trooper-Scarf-/390284344507?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adec27cbb

(http://www.signme2010.com/ebay/star%20wars/Star%20Wars%20Defense%20Of%20Hoth%20Rebel%20Trooper%20With%20Scarf%20Target.jpg)

This is the cheapest way to army build with this guy.
Title: Re: Target "Attack on/Defense of Hoth" Big BPs
Post by: Darth_Anton on February 1, 2011, 09:06 AM
I wish that At-St Driver would have been available. Forgot to pick another up.