JediDefender.com Forums
Collectibles => Past Hasbro 3.75" Lines => 30th Anniversary Collection => Topic started by: Brian on July 20, 2007, 08:52 AM
-
I'm not a terribly large army builder (can't afford it), but I do pick up anywhere from 4-10 of certain troops when I am able to. Anyways, I've noticed in the past year plus that it seems like the prequel army builders (clones in particular) sell much faster/better than the OT troops - even if they are super articulated "ultimate" versions in many cases. Another example of this is when Wave 3 showed up on HTS.com yesterday, and the Stormtrooper is still in stock. The same goes for the very nicely done VTSC Snowtrooper. Although the Stormtrooper may have its faults, the Snowtrooper is quite nice (although higher priced), and I don't now that its ever gone out of stock.
On the other side of things, it seems like prequel clones can't be kept in stock or on the pegs. Particularly the true movie ones, and not "concept/Hasbro invented" ones. The AOTC clone, shocktroopers, Elite Corps, and others seem to continue to sell well - regardless of how many releases they see. This might be starting to slow down a bit now, as I can find Galactic Marines hanging about our local Target quite a bit now.
Anyways, why is it that the OT army builders are slower sellers than their prequel counterparts? Is it just an overall thing where army building in general has slowed, or is it people feel they have enough of these troops from previous versions (although, in most cases, these newer versions are improvements)? What makes the prequel troops so much more popular, or better sellers right now as it seems?
-
Could have to do with the head sculpts...
I'd guess that it's more accurate that figures without unique faces sit longer - DST, Honor Guard... than figures with helmets, Clones, Stormtroopers, Snowtroopers...
Also, there are SO many different ones out right now, it's tough to gauge.
I for one am sick of clones and have been focusing on OT troops. I've even gone back and picked up all the AT-AT Drivers and Death Star Gunners I could find.
-
I still think ROTS was created by Hasbro and Hasbro alone, solely to sell action figures ;)
My guess is variety is why the clones sell better. You have discrete groups of troops that had specific purposes within the movies themselves in the PT: shocktroops, 501st, Utapau. Everybody wants at least one and for the most part, all of them are still relatively new. So collectors that were onboard all the way already had some, but add more to their army. More casual collectors maybe missed and are getting the repacks now.
As for the OT stuff, well, there's really not the same variability, is there. A stormtrooper is a stormtrooper until you start drifting EU. So you can have an armada of stormies for a long time and no real big need to get them. Yeah, some are crappy sculpts, like POTF2. But even those that have fallen out of favor (commtech) are actually still pretty nice sculpts, they just lack in articulation. So I don't think there's near as much need for them given you've had 12 years to pick them up, including loose, 'used' stormies from other collectors cleaning house. We've had decent recent releases including the VOTC stormtrooper that guys probably army built with at higher costs, so less willing to get more now that they've made the effort already.
I think Rob's point about non-helmeted troops applies too. Really, how many rebel honor guards does anyone want anyway? I'm all for Hasbro making characters/troops with limited scene time but I don't think anyone is really going to army build with those. Additionally rebel troops, perhaps because they're always unhelmeted, never really sell anyway. I've never had a problem finding rebel troops of any type. The Death Star Gunners make a bit of a different case, in that they are Imperials, but it's the non-unique face thing again. Wait, are those guys clones too? ::) >:(
-
Another reason that can apply to some (certainly not all) army builders is that the PT is still somewhat new and the OT is old. Now we're tallking really more the younger AB collectors out there.
However the fact as previously pointed out is that many of the OT troops have been released in the past 12 years and over time it's been relatively easy for anyone to AB OT troops, regardless of inferior/superior scultps.
I'm still going strong on both PT and OT, however I do find that I buy more PT because of the variety. That much I can see Hasbro influencing Lucas on, especially considering his stake in the company.
On average I get 20-40 of each lesser army builder (non strom/clone troopers). While for the clones I get at least 40 but have gone up to 100 in several cases, most notably the Utapau troopers.
Thankfully I have a nice network of fellow collectors who help me out ther. There's no way I'd find all of these in my local area as there are several AB collectors here. Besides, even when I see troops on egs, I don't usually wipe them all out, as I have that network to help me out.
-
For the longest while, Prequel has been my focus only because it appealed to me more on the "cool" factor, like Brent noted, because each trooper has it's significant purpose and are 'new'. Lately though, I guess maybe because I'm getting older, I've been concentrating a good portion of my dollars into Original Trilogy troopers, and less into Prequel stuff. I guess because I haven't found any Episode 2 clones.
Kevin
-
well considering i only started army building last year(when i started collecting again all together) i have a focus mostly on PT only because it is easier to find. at the same time i dont go all out though buying 40 of each figure or so. for me 5-10 is enough. i would love to get my OT army building higher but there just isnt enough new stuff out there, and considering i didnt collect when the OTC and Saga 1 collection was out a missed out on a lot of stuff.right now im just hoping imperials and rebels start hitting the shelves in greater numbers and variety.
-
Good points everyone. That's kind of what I was thinking to, just the fact that the OT troops have been out quite a bit longer. The thing is, it seems like the recent troops (VOTC/TAC Stormtrooper, VTSC Snowtrooper, VTSC Biker Scout, etc.) are pretty significant improvements over previous POTF2/SAGA versions, so it surprises me they don't sell quite as well as clones. Its not as if they sit, but I have had better luck picking them up than I have clones for the most part. Not that I'm complaining. The different "purposes" and squadrons is a good point as well. The empire was pretty much all black and white in the OT, where we have a Skittles rainbow of choices for the PT clones.
-
did i mention the fact that all the good IMPs are in the vintage line which is more expensive then clones...but of course everyone already knows that..which is for sure the reason (for most anyways) that its easier to collect clones then imps.
-
I think Rob's point about non-helmeted troops applies too. Really, how many rebel honor guards does anyone want anyway? I'm all for Hasbro making characters/troops with limited scene time but I don't think anyone is really going to army build with those.
I've got 12, and I could see myself ending up with a few more. :-X
If you push their helmets down so the visor covers their eyes, they're indistinguishable enough for me.
The Death Star Trooper on the other hand.... I'm done unless they want to do a new head sculpt.
-
I actually think the non-helmeted guys do pretty well at retail though...
I mean, at least in my area anyway, almost all the Endor Rebels are gone, and that figure was so-so at best... And I can't find an honor guard to save my life at retail. I bought one at retail, the other two I have I got from a friend, but as far as seeing them, they're nowhere to be found. I think people see the potential that figure has to be a good generic "base" too for the various guys standing around without helmets. Maybe not, Id on't know, but I can't find the figure at all while I see DST's fairly often... Not abundant, but often. Two or three to a store usually.
Personally I deal with the "clone effect" though on many army builders you can see their faces, but I guess I have the underlying intent to change those heads at some point too with casts somewhere down the line of the myriad of generic heads of all ethnicities that I've built up over the years (and that list keeps growing every year. Thank god for the military toy lines). That maybe sways my opinion slightly.
Still though I'm all for Hasbro whipping up new heads for great figures like the Honor guard, the DST, or whatever else... It even made me appreciate having a couple of the RFT from the Tantive IV pack, even though it's just to break the figures apart for their headsculpts.
I prefer army building the OT personally... But at this point I try to set minimum goals for OT and PT and go for it. The variety from the PT has me limiting at least some of the goals on some of the figure types, but for things like Battledroids, if they hypothetically made the ultimate high quality regular grunt droid in red and tan tomorrow, I'd probably have an insanely high limit on that one... Same as Stormtroopers. While the Airborne Trooper I want about half as many as the Utapau Grunt, or Mace Clones I want only a small squad or two of... Someday.
But, yeah, even if you can see their face, I tend to want a LOT of them. Give me a super articulated Fleet Trooper of figure perfection, and I'll buy it like Stormtroopers... No real limits to how many I'd want. Sure they'll all look alike (at least for a little while) but I'm ok with that. I was the kid with like 5 "Grunt" figures too though, in my GI Joe collection, and they were my green shirts at the time. And that guy had a freaky look too.
-
I've done a fair ammount of damage for both the OT and the PT.
OT: My Stormtrooper armies are considerable, even factoring in the old, lame POTF2 Stormies. I know that when there were some clearance sales on POTF2 I went NUTS. In one shot I bought about 2 dozen CommTech Stormtroopers for $1.97 each. And when some great Imperial army builders have come out I've been there buying. Imperial Officers? Yep. Death Star Troopers? Yeah. Death Star Gunners? Those too. Biker Scouts? Sure. Snowtroopers? Of course!
I think the Rebels have gotten the short end of the stick from an army building standpoint. The offering for the Rebel army builders haven't been that great. That's something that I hope Hasbro takes into consideration in the next few year. The Endor Troopers have been cool, but the Tantive IV troopers and Hoth troopers need to be brought into the modern era. The Rebel Honor Guard is a step in the right direction. But I guess we have to wait and see.
There are some other, smaller army contingents that I've focused on. Those being Sandpeople and Jawas. They're pretty anonymous and travel in numbers. So I've bought multiples of them, too.
PT: I've done better than my fair share of army building. I have a Gungan army that's considerable, with at least 40 Gungan Warriors, some Ammo Wagons and 4 x Fambaa's! My Naboo troops are no slouches either. And they've got just as many if not more Battle Droids to face off against.
My next big PT army building quest was with the AOTC troopers. Again there were more Battle Droids. As for Clones, I went into that in a big way. At my last count I had at least 40 of the sneak preview Clones, and I was picking up every other AOTC Clone that I could lay my hands on - Captains, Pilots, Deluxe, etc. I did that all the way through Clone Wars, and I'm still buying AOTC Clones from Saga Legends to build that army.
My ROTS era troops are considerable, too. I've got decent numbers on just about every Clone Trooper that was released, including the exclusives. Of course there are more droids in there, plus a fair contingent of Utapauans and Wookiees.
I think the reason why PT army builders have been dominating the scene is because those movies and their respective lines were getting much more attention from both Hasbro and the buying public. That's where the marketing push has been. We're only now starting to see more numerous and respectable offerings from the OT in the line now, whereas a couple of years ago we were only getting Stormtroopers in Hall of Fame waves and battle packs. And the vintage line offerings have been fantastic, but they saw more limited release and were priced higher. Basically I think we're seeing a sea-change, and things are going to shift to the OT for a bit. At least until the Clone Wars series comes out.
-
I prefer the OT troops. Seeing tht endless clones gets boring after a while.
-
I have been upping my troop numbers across the board. But I have recently been paying more attention to the OT. Kids may not dig the 70's style Stormtrooper pointy boots as much as the rugged Clonetrooper boots. It would not surprise me if that was true. when I was at Mattle we tsted He-Man and kids did not understand why he did not wear pants. (Hello - Barbarian!!!!)
I do not go overboard with every Clone variation, just the one that work for my display needs and I only like the SA style. Some of my highlight PT vs OT army comparisons:
Utapau Basic- 21 (25 is my goal for now)
442 - 20
Shocks - 10
Mace Windu basic - 10
Comic Arc - 6
BD #17's - 20 (25 is my goal)
Tac SBD 16
4 TAC Droid Tanks (6 counting the other 2)
38 AOTC EE Clone Troopers
Tantive Stormies - 16 (I want to get to 30)
VOTC Snow Troopers - 10
DST - 12
DSG - 6
3 Big Wing Tie fighters
the one I am dreading is the SA 501st. Thats the one everyone will want to build up on. As I write this I hear Moff Jerjerod "I need more men!" I need to beef my army up aftre hearing all these 40+ guys on the boards. what if I am attacked I need troops to defend my collections way of life. Time to invest in the military!
-
I personally do not discriminate between the two trilogies, but I do have a slight bias towards the Empire/Republic. My army building really turned down in 2005, however, after I got my fill of the ROTS clones. So far as that is concerned, I've never been too interested in the specific divisions/rainbow colors from the get-go. So, for my Phase II Army, I accumulated 45 "plain" troopers (41s and Quick-Draw) and a various number of others. I have a few Utaupau troopers (whom, actually, I've turned into a squad of "Pan Imperialist" militants from the Outer Rim), 4 shocks, and a 10-man squad from Kyyshyk (spelling evades). I would do a squad of Galactic Marines, but I frankly don't see the economy in buying figures for the sake of buying them (I've kind of dropped out of the game.)
-
This will come as a shock to NONE of you, but I am purely an OT Army Builder.
The problem I see with why PT sells better than OT is that the PT has an "Ultimate" sculpt as pretty much it's only sculpt. The #41 Clone was very near perfection (articulation and sculptwise) right out of the gate. So they can just re-do that all day long, also as mentioned previously, RoTS had to be written by hasbro just to sell the various colors of clones...
Another problem is...Aside from the Death Star Gunner, VOTC/Tantive/TAC Stormtrooper (I know different sclupts) VTSC Biker Scout and the VTAC SnowTrooper, there aren't Definative Sculpts. The Death Star Trooper is TERRIBLE, inaccurate, out of scale and like Rob said..only has one head sculpt (therefore it is not very Generic). The Tie Pilot is missing arm Articulation, the Rebel pilots have the same problem (aside from being scaled to about 8 feet tall), The Rebel Fleet Trooper Sux (just ask JJ), The Endor Trooper has not been done correctly despite recent attempts and the Hoth Rebel hasn't even had a recent enough attempt to consider it part of the same line.
And I will admit to a bit of less interest to massively collecting OT troopers if they have a Jango Head underneath. Yup, I can leave the helmet on and I do, but after 30 years of imagining it is very hard for me to accept that All stormtroopers are Jango clones...maybe if I had liked the prequels even one iota it would be different, but as the old saying goes "it is on the inside that counts"...well if Jango is inside..I don't necessarily want it.
-
Cool topic Brian.
While I do like the OT stuff a bit better, I army build more with the PT stuff.
My reasononing might be a bit different than others, but what drives me to buy more PT army builders is the fact that we see larger battle in the PT, with more of an emphasis on large armies going all out. We see thousands of troops in so many different scenes... The troop battles in the OT seemed more confined with smaller fights going on (of course because of the limits of technology those days) for the most part so I guess that's why I don't go as crazy with my OT armies.
:P
-
Cool topic Brian.
While I do like the OT stuff a bit better, I army build more with the PT stuff.
My reasononing might be a bit different than others, but what drives me to buy more PT army builders is the fact that we see larger battle in the PT, with more of an emphasis on large armies going all out. We see thousands of troops in so many different scenes... The troop battles in the OT seemed more confined with smaller fights going on (of course because of the limits of technology those days) for the most part so I guess that's why I don't go as crazy with my OT armies.
:P
Yes, I have to agree with this as well.
I tend to build how you see them on screen.
There were MANY Utapau troopers, hence I have a huge Utapau army.
Many 501st troopers.
MANY MANY AOTC styled troopers.
While I have a lot of Stormies, I don't need a huge army for each scene. Only really big land based battle with Stormies is Endor. Snowtroopers only appear on Hoth, and at that you don't really see too many of them, so while still an army, it is much smaller. Biker scouts even less as they were only on Endor and not seen too much during the big battle.
What I do like about that though is that you can convey the scene very well with a dozen or so troops and still make it look good. Exception again being Endor. Nearly any given OT scene with troops can be done with a dozen of so troops and will look like it's fleshed out well. Heck with the Death Star there are Officers, Gunners, Death Star Troopers, Stormtroopers, and TIE fighter pilots to fill scenes. With that kind of variety we really don't need to have tons of each. (Though trust me I understand the desire to want a lot.)
But to do something on the order of Utapau or better yet Geonosis, well a dozen just doesn't cut it. Well, not with what I have in mind, mind you my diorama plans call for each of those to be LARGE dioramas at 8ft wide, 5ft tall and 4 ft deep each. So it stands to reason I need more troops to fill those dioramas up.
Large OT dioramas just don't call for that kind of amount of figures. True enough a multifacted Death Star diorama would need many Stormies to fill it out, but that's more like many smaller diioramas put together than one big one. I have plans for this too, but it is modular in design to allow for change.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
-
The problem I see with why PT sells better than OT is that the PT has an "Ultimate" sculpt as pretty much it's only sculpt. The #41 Clone was very near perfection (articulation and sculptwise) right out of the gate. So they can just re-do that all day long, also as mentioned previously, RoTS had to be written by hasbro just to sell the various colors of clones...
Another problem is...Aside from the Death Star Gunner, VOTC/Tantive/TAC Stormtrooper (I know different sclupts) VTSC Biker Scout and the VTAC SnowTrooper, there aren't Definative Sculpts. The Death Star Trooper is TERRIBLE, inaccurate, out of scale and like Rob said..only has one head sculpt (therefore it is not very Generic). The Tie Pilot is missing arm Articulation, the Rebel pilots have the same problem (aside from being scaled to about 8 feet tall), The Rebel Fleet Trooper Sux (just ask JJ), The Endor Trooper has not been done correctly despite recent attempts and the Hoth Rebel hasn't even had a recent enough attempt to consider it part of the same line.
And I will admit to a bit of less interest to massively collecting OT troopers if they have a Jango Head underneath. Yup, I can leave the helmet on and I do, but after 30 years of imagining it is very hard for me to accept that All stormtroopers are Jango clones...maybe if I had liked the prequels even one iota it would be different, but as the old saying goes "it is on the inside that counts"...well if Jango is inside..I don't necessarily want it.
Well said Paul.
I had been wanting to chime in on this, but haven't had the time to sit and think out a logical answer beyond my personal preference of OT Army building. What Paul said more or less sums my feelings, but it doesn't stop me from doing less PT army building.
-
Cool topic Brian.
While I do like the OT stuff a bit better, I army build more with the PT stuff.
My reasononing might be a bit different than others, but what drives me to buy more PT army builders is the fact that we see larger battle in the PT, with more of an emphasis on large armies going all out. We see thousands of troops in so many different scenes... The troop battles in the OT seemed more confined with smaller fights going on (of course because of the limits of technology those days) for the most part so I guess that's why I don't go as crazy with my OT armies.
:P
Yes, I have to agree with this as well.
I tend to build how you see them on screen.
There were MANY Utapau troopers, hence I have a huge Utapau army.
Many 501st troopers.
MANY MANY AOTC styled troopers.
While I have a lot of Stormies, I don't need a huge army for each scene. Only really big land based battle with Stormies is Endor. Snowtroopers only appear on Hoth, and at that you don't really see too many of them, so while still an army, it is much smaller. Biker scouts even less as they were only on Endor and not seen too much during the big battle.
What I do like about that though is that you can convey the scene very well with a dozen or so troops and still make it look good. Exception again being Endor. Nearly any given OT scene with troops can be done with a dozen of so troops and will look like it's fleshed out well. Heck with the Death Star there are Officers, Gunners, Death Star Troopers, Stormtroopers, and TIE fighter pilots to fill scenes. With that kind of variety we really don't need to have tons of each. (Though trust me I understand the desire to want a lot.)
But to do something on the order of Utapau or better yet Geonosis, well a dozen just doesn't cut it. Well, not with what I have in mind, mind you my diorama plans call for each of those to be LARGE dioramas at 8ft wide, 5ft tall and 4 ft deep each. So it stands to reason I need more troops to fill those dioramas up.
Large OT dioramas just don't call for that kind of amount of figures. True enough a multifacted Death Star diorama would need many Stormies to fill it out, but that's more like many smaller diioramas put together than one big one. I have plans for this too, but it is modular in design to allow for change.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
Great explanation there, I concur 100%.
-
So why is this posted in this thread?
Anyway, back on topic. I'm in the process of moving and have been boxing up a lot of my collection. A good deal of it is going into storage for the next year, and the remainder is going into rubbermaid bins until I can get situated in my new place.
What have I found? My armies are geared much more towards the PT. My AOTC Clone army is very considerable. The ROTS Clone Army is up there, too, but I think because of the unit markings on the ROTS Clones they don't stand out as much as the AOTC Clones. There's also a good deal of Battle Droids, Super Battle Droids and the like.
I think the best estimation of what I have is going to come in about a year or so. That's when I'm moving into a place that's big enough that I'll finally be able to display all the armies in their glory. I think the OT Imperials are going to be well represented. At least well enough to make for a good Emporer's arrival diorama.
-
Just a heads up that I split off discussion about the repainted Stormtrooper into the More from The Force Unleashed? (http://www.jedidefender.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=16353.0) thread so it's all in one location. Thanks!
-
Yeah good idea to split it. I should have posted the image in that thread probably first.
I'm considering this to be more EU-OT army building. If there is such a thing... which is what I consider the McQuarrie army builders I suppose.