JediDefender.com Forums

Community => JD Sports Forum! => Topic started by: Morgbug on June 21, 2012, 08:18 PM

Title: NHL Offseason 2012
Post by: Morgbug on June 21, 2012, 08:18 PM
Wild come to Winnipeg next year twice.  One exhibition, one regular season (January 4). 

Oh yeah, regular season schedule came out today.  Here's hoping no lockout because we have Hawks and Wings both in October. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on June 22, 2012, 09:45 AM
I'm not even looking at the schedules until they get the lockout/contract figured out... :(


I will talk about the Draft tonight though...  always fun to see what happens.  Lots of reports that we are playing it safe and picking a Dman, but the Wild seems to love Finns and I would not be surprised to see them go for Teranvainin or even taking a chance on one of the Russians should they slip to us at #7. 

Jesse, any odds on you guys trading Staal?  Sounds like he's tired of being a #3 C and ready to move on...  who passes on a ten-year $60mil deal?  Someone ready to go be a #1 center somewhere else I guess...  anyway, lots of people around here seem to think we're really kicking the tires on a trade for him, also sounds like he's interested in hanging with his bro in Carolina?
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on June 22, 2012, 09:29 PM
Not thrilled with our pick at #9 - Trouba.  I'm sure he'll end up being a very solid D but that's not really what we needed.  I'm now expecting Forsberg to be ROY since we passed on him.  ::)

The rumours about Staal were true with him wanting to play with his brother.  Wow.  Great for Carolina but not sure it was actually the right move for him. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on June 22, 2012, 10:35 PM
I was surprised you guys went that route too, but like you said he should be a solid D in a few years.

I was very happy with our pick of Dumba.  Great pick for the Wild.  Exactly what they need - punch on the blue line to go with all those young forwards we have coming up. 

And Brent, I still love the fact that we are the kind of hockey nerds who sit around on a Friday night watching the NHL draft. :P
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on June 22, 2012, 11:53 PM
I was sitting in bed on my aviation reding it on tqitter... :x

Knew staal was gone once he turned down 10 years.  Won a cup with him n knew we couldn't hav forever.  Interesting trade rumors here r a lot of parise talk.  Boos o Philly n wash gms were fun. ;D

D stacking here...  Tryin move Martin too by all accounts.  Tuf to do tho
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on June 23, 2012, 10:08 PM
And Brent, I still love the fact that we are the kind of hockey nerds who sit around on a Friday night watching the NHL draft. :P

Was fired up all week for the draft, reading all sorts of stuff.  Went out to a bar to watch the first fifteen picks.  Much fun. 

Just need the CBA done, sign Kane and Pavelec and the world is a rosy place again.  With the schedule out, I'm itching to get the draft done for our season ticket group.  Wings, Hawks and Nucks are in town this year as they weren't last year.  I assume we'll move to the west next season so we'll see them more, but there are a bunch of guys on the Wings I'm not sure how long they'll play, so that's my first pick.  Pens are right up there as I didn't see them last year though it wasn't as much of a blow as Crosby wasn't playing. 

Ecstatic about the move to the division we'll be in as well, so long as it stays that way.  Hawks and Wings are great, Blues should be exciting.  Columbus should mean we won't be last and I always liked the North Stars.  I think the Wild is a natural rivalry so those will be great games too and probably lead to road trips for us as well. 

I'm better with the Trouba pick today.  Jets very clearly went after size (and nothing but size?) in this draft.  With the 2013 draft looking like it's loaded with more quality picks we can wait for a forward.  Plus we still aren't that good so we should be top ten and maybe a top five pick next year. 

Really curious though to see what happens with Forsberg going forward.  It's not like passing on Couturier again but still gotta wonder.  Would have liked Faksa as well and I wonder what happens with Grigorenko too.  Nice first round for Buffalo  :o
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: TheSon on June 24, 2012, 10:16 AM
It had to be a rough week for Jets fans with the Canes, Caps, and Bolts all seeming to take steps forward, which will make points even harder to come by in the division. ...If they even play this season.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on June 25, 2012, 08:39 PM
It had to be a rough week for Jets fans with the Canes, Caps, and Bolts all seeming to take steps forward, which will make points even harder to come by in the division. ...If they even play this season.

None of your comments are incorrect, other than that it was a rough week for Jets fans.  We're still entirely euphoric, except the haters who will never be happy anyway (not you, I mean the local people). 

On deeper reflection the draft was pretty good.  I'm still scared that Forsberg will burn us, but after looking at a pile of stuff on Trouba, I'm pretty excited about the pick.  What changed my mind the most is the following stat about the Jets:

Goals for: 12th
Goals against: 5th last.  Yep, we might need to shore up the D a little. 

Getting a Sutter is always nice and our third round pick is pretty nice too as some drafts had him projected late first round and this is a kid that likes to play around the net and scored the second most goals of anyone drafted yesterday behind Yakupov.  That's pretty sweet.  The other picks are futures with a couple of goalies as long shots, but hey, Lundquist and Rinne were drafted in the 7th and 8th round, so not bad. 

Not happy to see Staal going to Carolina for sure, but whatever.  Wanting to play with your bro is nice, but not really what I'd call a great hockey decision.  Carolina got better for sure for the short term.  Not so worried about the Caps, they should've been better last year anyway and I expect them to continue to underperform until they get the concept of chemistry.  Lighting did underperform last year in a big way and I didn't think we'd be even close to them.  Reality is we are the remnants of the Atlanta Thrashers that were rather mismanaged.  We need to recover from that and we will, given time.  I didn't really think we'd make the playoffs this year (yes, I hoped) and I really don't see it next year either, in part because of what you stated, they got better short term and we didn't really. 

We're building through the draft - something the Jets management said from the get go.  Good young core of players, drafting moderately well and signing our RFAs makes me happy.  Signed Pavelec today, much to the dismay of delusional Leafs fans that wanted him, and while we overpaid for him, I think it sends a nice statement that yeah, Winnipeg is willing to pay for players that fit our system and earn their money.  It wasn't stoopid money like DiPietro or Luongo but it's not a huge cap hit either.  More important than signing Pavelec is the message it sends to potential free agents that this isn't the old Winnipeg Jets.  You play, they'll pay.  That's more important for us than a larger, more desirable market for many of the young kids that want to be famous.  We're down at the bottom with Edmonton, Columbus, Buffalo as places maybe players don't want to go.  So I'm supportive of management making decent offers without being stupid and acquiring players that don't need all the bling that you get in a bigger U.S. city. 
 

Winnipeg is about hockey and we aren't going to make the same mistakes as a Toronto or Philadelphia make in throwing money at questionable players for short term gain.   :)
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: TheSon on June 27, 2012, 05:20 PM
Well said, I can't wait until the CBA is done and the Jets can end up in another division where I can pull for them. Free agency is right around the corner.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on July 1, 2012, 11:45 PM
Reading a lot of reports tonight that suggest it's either A) Parise/Suter to the Wild or B) Parise = PIT, Suter = DET if they don't sign together...  which probably means B) is the winner. :P

Sounds like Parise will make up his mind tomorrow and maybe Suter by Tuesday...  wait and see, wait and see.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Scott on July 4, 2012, 12:47 PM
Sounds like the Wild got Parise and Suter...wow
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on July 4, 2012, 05:33 PM
So, so happy right now.  Can't believe they pulled off snagging both!  :)

And, with PMB and backs contracts up next year, we'll have $10-13 mil to add pieces next year ...
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on July 4, 2012, 09:06 PM
I'm excited for you guys in the short term, but holy crap does that tie up cap space for a really, really long time.  If the talk about the new CBA having a lower cap is true, then you better win quick.  Gonna be tough to play against you guys when we move into that division.  Hopefully now you can actually sell out your arena rather than having 3000-4000 Canadians show up.   :P

Still, nice to see guys going 'home' to play.  Maybe we can get Zajac next year and then pick up Toews after 2015-16. 

As a general comment I'm quite floored by what a lot of guys are getting this summer in terms of contract dollars.  No disrespect to Minnesota at all, but I don't see either of those guys being worth 7.5 million per year.  I don't see Olli Jokinen at 4.5 either.  This is hockey and all but ten teams lost money last year.  That's not good. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on July 5, 2012, 12:11 AM
If the talk about the new CBA having a lower cap is true, then you better win quick. 

Tying up a lot of money and second guessing it what we do here (see also: Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau, etc) so I'm no stranger to that.  Yeah, a much lower cap could hurt us, but we have so much up-and-coming talent that it might not kill us outright.  Maybe it will.  Dunno I guess.

Either way, it's damn exciting.  Exciting to think that MN is a viable option for FAs, now or in the future.  This kind of stuff would NEVER happen in the NBA, where they run from the cold.  It hardly ever happens in the NFL without a trade-and-sign type thing.  The idea that these guys could have picked Motown and/or Crosby and picked us just gives me warm fuzzies all over.

Defintely drinking a healthy cup of Wild kool-aid today, totally buying what they are selling and not worrying about tomorrow.  What's the worst that could happen?  Not making the playoffs?  I'm Minnesotan, I'm used to that.  :-X
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on July 15, 2012, 11:58 PM
As a result of the Parise/Suter induced hockey-mania in these parts, we've had record numbers at our development camp scrimmages.  It's like people are so happy with the team's FA signings, they are doing anything they can to show off thier Wild pride.  We had 6500+ at the past Thursday night scrimmage and 7500+ at the scrimmage today. 

And you can count me among those hockey-mad folks.  I took the opportunity to take Kellan (age 2) to watch some free hockey today.  I don't think he'd make it through a 2 hour game, but a one-hour scrimmage was right up his alley.  He is a totally hockey-mad two-year old.  He sat and watched the draft with me and also watched a lot of the playoffs with me too.  He had so much fun watching and was cheering for those kids like they were super-stars.  Here's a couple pics from our day.

Happy to be there...
(http://www.jedidefender.com/jsmentek/photos/wild_kellan.jpg)

Really happy to have a bucket of popcorn he didn't have to share with his brothers...
(http://www.jedidefender.com/jsmentek/photos/wild_popcorn.jpg)

We also used the scrimmage to scope out our new season ticket seats:
(http://www.jedidefender.com/jsmentek/photos/wild_game.jpg)

Yeah, I said "new season ticket" - I broke down and bought season tickets myself this year instead of just joining in a pool with others.  I figure my family will be good for moving quite a few of the games, so I shouldn't be stuck with a ton of games.  Now, the next step is to make sure the players and owners don't **** everything up and ruin this fall for me.   >:(
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on July 19, 2012, 12:27 PM
What an overnight...  if I was Pekka Rinne or any Nashville fan, I'd be seriously worried right now.  First we stole your Suter, now Philly is trying to steal your Weber.  Makes me hope Jamie isn't out there somewhere, curled up in the fetal position clutching his Smashville "we're #1" foam finger and crying.   :-\

If Nashville won't (or can't) match the offer sheet (they would be on the hook for $27 mil before they could trade Weber a year from now  :o), things in the Atlantic just got crazy.  You almost have to imagine that someone (JJ's Penguins?) will take a chance on Semin now.  And the NYR will probably over-react and go out and trade for Nash or Ryan.  No idea what NJ can really afford to do, but with Parise gone they may try something too.

Should be an interesting weekend of rumors as everyone tries to guess what'll happen next... 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on July 19, 2012, 02:19 PM
I think the Pens would be more interested in Nash than Semin, but they're also interested in Shane Doan (lots of rumors on him) because he has a lot of what they lacked last year.  Semin's poison in the locker room I hear, he's openly bashed Penguin players in the media (not that we care...  what's he accomplished again?).

I brought it up locally on the one sports show...  Bad reactions were what I got.  I think it's maybe where he's at that made him that way, but then again do you take a chance on that?  I see Semin as a Ranger...  Sounds about right.

Pens have so much depth in their camp I don't think they're paniced...  They're already talking maybe Despres with Letange and just waiting things out to trade deadline.  Crosby didn't even play half a season last year, and still was a dominant player when he came back, so I'm thinking they may just wait it out than sacrifice the future for a guy you can't pin anything on.  That's why I think Doan's a lot more likely to wind up here since you're not likely to give up a ton for him, but you're also not taking a risk by getting him either because you know what kind of guy he is.  Semin has to go somewhere else to prove he can be a better guy, and Nash you're gonna give to get.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: jjks on July 20, 2012, 12:24 PM
I hate hockey right now.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: TheSon on July 20, 2012, 01:20 PM
I hate hockey right now.

At least you have another reason to hate the Flyers. I remember being upset when they did this with Chris Gratton in the 90's, but that does not hold a candle to what you are going through....Damn Flyers.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on July 23, 2012, 10:27 PM
Wow Jeff, your tickets are pretty similar to mine.  We're 15th row, but dead center behind the net.  $8500 for the pair for a season  :o

No Jets game for you though, sorry.   :-*  Unless you come up here for the early January game (or I guess you get the preseason game, assuming it happens). 

The Preds have been pretty much, um, er, assaulted, this off season.  That's just really scary.  I understand losing your UFAs but the Weber thing is downright nasty.  I'm somewhat worried someone will do the same with Evander Kane up here, though he is an RFA at least.  Discussions sound hopeful (6 years 29 million) for him with most of the talk centering around length of term.  Then we'll have to lock up Wheeler, Bogosian and Little next year.  Enstrom will be an RFA as well so they'll either tie him up early or likely end up as trade bait and the deadline. 

Was really surprised to see some info on Byfuglien today too.  He only got two days of community service for reckless boating.  Through the whole thing I wasn't aware that he had only blown 0.03 on the preliminary breathalyzer.  Most of our media had him slated for "drunk boating".  Gotta love the accuracy of the media.  Not that drunken boating didn't endear him to the fans here. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on July 23, 2012, 10:42 PM
  And the NYR will probably over-react and go out and trade for Nash or Ryan. 

Oh mighty Vizier, though art wise. 

Though it didn't seem too bad a trade really.  I think Columbus could have got more, but it seemed they just wanted it over with. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on July 27, 2012, 12:43 AM
So Jamie gets to keep his Weber afterall.  It will be interesting to see if he gets that "no trade" clause or not...

And Semin ends up in Carolina on a one year deal.  Good news for Doan I guess since the desperate will be even more desperate now...
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on July 27, 2012, 01:01 AM
I'm hoping the Pens land Doan since the douchebags Wild took Parise...  Semin I brought up to some of the local talking heads and it was pretty widely accepted that a guy who publicly **** all over Crosby and who puts out zero effort (so far) wasn't an ideal choice for here...  I thought, maybe it was his environment and not him.  The "experts" seemed to disagree with my suggestion, and I wasn't really with it.  Again though I don't think the Pens will pay heavy for Doan, given his age and slowdown, and if he goes for a lot they'd probably prefer waiting things out and seeing how the season goes, and then make a move at the deadline when they could be sitting pretty.  I'm ok with that.  The team's not exactly shoddy as it is. :P
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: McMetal on July 27, 2012, 09:19 AM
I'm hoping the Pens land Doan since the douchebags Wild took Parise...  Semin I brought up to some of the local talking heads and it was pretty widely accepted that a guy who publicly **** all over Crosby and who puts out zero effort (so far) wasn't an ideal choice for here...  I thought, maybe it was his environment and not him.  The "experts" seemed to disagree with my suggestion, and I wasn't really with it.  Again though I don't think the Pens will pay heavy for Doan, given his age and slowdown, and if he goes for a lot they'd probably prefer waiting things out and seeing how the season goes, and then make a move at the deadline when they could be sitting pretty.  I'm ok with that.  The team's not exactly shoddy as it is. :P

Yeah, you dodged a bullet with Semin. Let Carolina deal with that headcase. Addition by subtraction for the Caps.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on July 27, 2012, 12:45 PM
Yeah they weren't letting him float away for no reason...  Dude has talent but he's like the Terrel Owens of hockey sometimes it seems.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on July 27, 2012, 06:05 PM
Sneaky play today by the Jets in locking up Enstrom for five more years (six total given his current contract doesn't expire until after this season).  Given what some of the defensemen got this year as UFAs I'd say we managed to get a hell of a bargain on Enstrom to keep him in Winnipeg.  $28.75 million per year over five years. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Paul on July 29, 2012, 08:46 AM
And Dallas goes out of their way to sign Jaromir Jagr?  If we are trying to build a 90's Dream Team, bring back Modano and Ed Belfour...I'll go to a few games just to see those guys skate..

While Dallas has a New owner (finally some stability), i think he is playing "Fantasy" owner.  The new job affords me the opportunity to go to at least half the home games, I need them to be good so I can enjoy it.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: John C on July 31, 2012, 04:22 PM
I'm going to try and get a job with the Wild in the TV production booth.  Wish me luck :)Getting paid to watch hockey=awesome if I can do it.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: JesseVader08 on August 10, 2012, 01:58 AM
So Bettman is making it clear that he'll lock out the players on Sept 15 if a new CBA isn't reached.  Sigh.  Can't we just watch some hockey?
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on August 10, 2012, 06:33 PM
I cannot believe I'm saying this, but I actually think Bettman did the right thing to help negotiations progress.  Fehr was taking his sweet time with presenting a counter proposal and frankly that's counter productive.  To get to a deal, progress needs to happen. 

Of course the players would continue with an extension - this would favor them relative to what will likely happen in the new CBA.  But in the absence of a formal extension, I don't believe for a second the players would have played through the full season.  They'd have waited until they had some real leverage, say a month or so before the playoffs, and then gone on strike much as baseball did years ago.  That would hurt the owners.  As it stands though the owners have all the leverage - no start to the season, no salaries paid out. 

It sucks and I really, really want the season to go ahead.  I think the players need to protect themselves but I think they should legitimately give a good look to how the NBA and NFL players deals worked out - i.e. not in the players favor.  If they think they're more important to fans than the NBA and NFL are then they are completely delusional.  Canada quite simply is not a big enough market and that's where people really care about the NHL.  Due respect to the mad hockey fans dispersed throughout the States but there just aren't enough of you.  Doesn't pro bowling rank higher than hockey with ESPN?  'Nuff said. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on August 10, 2012, 11:46 PM
Yeah, the players were definitely hoping to drag it out.  Playing under the old deal is probably better than what they'll get under the new deal and it makes them look like they want to keep going for the fans...  definitely only putting off the inevitable.

And you're probably right about the vast majority of the USA.  They will be busy watching football or baseball post-season, so I doubt most of them miss the NHL in October.  Don't get me wrong, I'll definitely miss the NHL in October (what else am I going to do, watch the Vikings? (http://www.jedidefender.com/images/newsicons/icon16.gif)), but I'd rather burn October/November than April/May/June.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: TheSon on August 12, 2012, 10:14 AM
You guys are dead on. Fehr was hoping to use the loss of playoff revenue as leverage against the owners. It is the right call to force the negotiations to happen in September and October. I am normally a pro-labor guy, but when the "workers" are making more in a season than I do in my lifetime my sympathies are removed. I am a season ticket holder, (even though I live in the sun belt) and every game I miss is going squarely on the shoulders of Fehr. I used to love baseball, as much as I love hockey and could tell you the batting average of every player in the National League. After Fehr's work I now watch a handful of games a year. That same thing will happen to fans in the us to hockey, and without the Walmart of sports television, ESPN, promoting the game I worry about the future.
     I will be shocked if the Coyotes do not end up in Quebec City by next season, and although they more than deserve to have a team back I think it is a shame that some markets fan bases are being judged in 10 years what other markets have had 100 to build.
      Part of the negotiations may involve expansion north of the border. As much as I don't want the talent pool diluted any more, I can see the promise of more jobs for the players, and expansion fees for the owners is something that would be advantageous for both sides.
      In any case this all seems like a needless waste, and in the end just hurts fans and the employees of the areas that will be unnecessarily out of work. The NHL and NHLPA need to just  #GETITDONE.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on September 16, 2012, 01:36 AM
 :'(

 >:(

but we did sign Kane at the last minute.   :)
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: TheSon on September 16, 2012, 09:35 AM
Instead of a mini Stanley Cup like last work stoppage, I hope this years "thank you" to the fans is lining up all the owners and player reps and letting everyone kick them square in the nuts.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on September 16, 2012, 03:24 PM
Such a pointless lockout too.  Regardless of who, if either, of the sides you side with (neither) the players will lose.  It's really that simple.  They will start losing money very shortly that they will never recoup.  Principles are irrelevant. 

Oh, dear players, twitter is not your friend.  Flashing your ignorance publicly about your woes at not making 2 million a season any more and only making 1.5 million really isn't relevant to any of the fans.  Yes, I'm sure it sucks that you'll actually require parts of two seasons to make as much money as the average worker takes 40 years to make.   ::)
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on September 16, 2012, 09:32 PM
BS
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on September 16, 2012, 10:14 PM
Que?
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: DSJ™ on September 17, 2012, 02:12 AM
(http://nhlmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/405447_406127072782117_894046930_n.jpg)
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on September 18, 2012, 04:25 AM
Que?

bull****...  as in this is all bull**** and I'm raging (just in my head) about it.  :-\

No season, players going overseas to play...  stuff's just sucking.  I've been sticking my head in the sand on the whole thing for the most part.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Spirit of MAC on September 18, 2012, 05:46 AM
Honestly, I'm surprised that anyone's surprised by this.  It's status quo now that whenever the CBA (or equivalent thereof) expires in any of the four major sports, it's strike/lock-out time.  I mean, seriously, when's the last time one of the "Big 4" sports seemlessly negotiated through one of these things without any disruption?  NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL...  I can't recall the last time it happened.

Greed, money, and ego.  It's the (North?) American way!  8)

Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: P-Siddy on September 18, 2012, 08:15 AM
It's the (North?) American way!  8)

Well, not all the players are North American... so greed is a global thing.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on September 18, 2012, 03:00 PM
Yeah, that's a fairly universal thing in my experience...  Look at the Aliens in Independance Day and War of the Worlds...  Very greedy.  Jabba anyone?  It spans the galaxy.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: P-Siddy on September 18, 2012, 04:07 PM
Sebulba does whatever it takes to win, too.  And don't forget Greedo.   His name says it all.

Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on September 18, 2012, 04:45 PM
Greedo...  ugh...  guy's mother was psychic!  or doomed him.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on October 18, 2012, 11:08 PM
So much potential on Tuesday...  only to be flushed away today.  :(

Instead of taking the NHL's latest 50/50 offer and actually negotiating, the players went ahead and tossed out three new meaningless proposals knowing full well that including an average of 54.5% HRR was ridiculous in the eyes of the NHL.  Nice work guys.   ::)

I think the last bit of my optimism is slipping away...   :-\

Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on October 19, 2012, 12:19 AM
Yeah, looking like a slow winter/spring at this point.  Was watching local guys on Twitter tonight discussing it...  Funny thing was that the 11 o'clock news played a clip from Vitale practicing at the RMU rink with a couple other Pens today and he's all optomistic.

I guess that news reporter wasn't following Twitter all night and decided to go with the whole optomistic angle.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: JesseVader08 on October 25, 2012, 12:08 AM
I'm pretty pissed at the players and the league right now.  Greedy bastards, all of them.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on October 25, 2012, 12:53 AM
Should we lay odds on how much of the season we lose tomorrow?  I think they'll blow out all of November (through 11/30) and leave just enough wiggle room so they have another two weeks or so before they decide the fate of the Winter Classic (by 11/10).
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on October 25, 2012, 01:33 AM
I thought they were announcing WC's cancellation earlier than the 10th.

Found it out of the blue that the Islanders are moving too...  Didn't realize that was really on the table.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on October 25, 2012, 08:51 PM
Found it out of the blue that the Islanders are moving too...  Didn't realize that was really on the table.

I think the move to Brooklyn surprised everyone.  Wang (owner of the Isles) had been wanting support for a long time to replace the Colliseum but just wasn't getting it.  I'm sure there's a deal in the works to cut in the Nets owners as well, expand the Brooklyn arena and see if they can't compete with the MSG entity. 

As for the lockout, I'm really, truly trying to figure out what the players want.  They 'lost' the last lockout and managed to nearly double their salaries in the time in between.  So while I see their point that they will lose money in the short term if they cave, I'm really not clear on the mathematics of losing an entire season.  Certainly it hurts the owners to a degree (though some benefit from having only losses with near zero expenditures because those can be more easily written off than losses with full expenses) but losing a full season will hurt the players as a group far, far more.  If only because the negative repercussions will lead to decreased revenue, meaning they'll see less salary increases while the owners see less revenue.  On top of that they don't seem to consider much of the following:

-last lockout saw players lose a full year's salary - as Roenick indicated that was 6 million dollars he'll never, ever lay a hand on

-maybe 5% of players can achieve nearly the same salary in the KHL as they're getting in the NHL

-probably 20% of players can ultimately obtain regular league play overseas in either European or Russian leagues but certainly nowhere near the same salary they are currently achieving

-that leaves roughly 75% of the league that really doesn't have much of an option (of which maybe 10% will find employment in the AHL and similar for pay leagues, at roughly 1/10 of their NHL salary)

-after the last lockout, nearly 20% of the players never played in the NHL again.  ouch.

-the average NHL career is 4.5 years long so giving up one of those years is a little over 20% of your earning potential

This is worth fighting a principle on?  You can't take principles to the bank and really, let's not kid ourselves, these guys are fighting solely for their own pocketbooks, they won't give a crap 6-8 years down the road when they are mostly retired. 

The owners aren't great by any shakes, but even NBA players figured out that playing for millions of dollars per year less some percentage was a hell of a lot smarter than not playing at all and not getting paid.  With all due respect to NBA players, I honestly never thought of them as smarter than NHL players.  Clearly I was wrong. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Nicklab on October 25, 2012, 09:59 PM
The Islanders had apparently been trying to stay in their old home (the Nassau Colliseum), but the ownership totally recognized that the facility was outdated and falling apart.  So, the team tried to find public financing to either rennovate or replace the existing arena.  It went to a bond vote, and the voters of Nassau county voted against the measure.  Out of the three NYC metro area teams the Islanders are definitely not rolling in dough.  So it seemed that without public financing a new arena was out of the question.

So what happens?  The New Jersey Nets get bought by a Russian billionaire (and a minority stake for JayZ), and they find a new home in Brooklyn.  The New Jersey home of the Nets had never really developed a loyal fanbase, but the move to Brooklyn might bring that.  Add in a brand new arena, and there's going to be a lot of interest.  Almost every concert at the Barclays Center in Brooklyn has been news since the arena opened up.

So what do the Islanders do?  There's a brand new arena 15 miles from their current home, and it might just be free a few nights a week in the in winter.  Personally, I can't see how they wouldn't go for that deal.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on October 26, 2012, 12:14 AM
I wonder if they'll become the Brooklyn Islanders?  I'd kinda dig that.

Read an interesting article/interview with Ryan Miller about what the players want, on Twitter.  Basically he cited a lot of the "expansion" talk, and other things as the league wanting concessions from the PA plus to keep all the income via expansion and such.

*shrugs*

I just know I don't have hockey going on...  and I'm missing, personally, two of the greatest players playing at any given point I can get home game tickets.  It's sucking.  Wish they'd figure some **** out.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: P-Siddy on October 26, 2012, 10:00 AM
I dunno about the Brooklyn Islanders, Jesse.  I'm an islander, too, living in Manhattan.  I might feel slighted.  ;)
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Nicklab on October 26, 2012, 12:25 PM
I wonder if they'll become the Brooklyn Islanders?  I'd kinda dig that.

I doubt they'll change the name.  For the Nets, a name change totally made sense.  When they were in the ABA they actually played in NYC and were the New York Nets.  Then they moved across the river to the Meadowlands in Jersey and because of that they became the New Jersey Nets.  And with the move to Brooklyn, Jay-Z's association with the team combined with a pretty strong sense of Brooklyn pride, it made sense to call the Nets the Brooklyn Nets.

As for the Islanders?  Technically, they'll still be on Long Island.  And in New York state as well as the city, now.  I can't see a name change really benefitting them all that much.  The new arena should definitely spark some interest in the team.  At least, until they start playing and their record starts reminding people why the Islanders have become the red-headed step children of NYC area hockey teams.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on October 26, 2012, 02:28 PM
I like the idea of a separation of the teams though...  Give the NY title to the Rangers...  Go for something grittier with the Brooklyn Islanders.  Go for the tougher sounding name.  I'd really enjoy it.

Figured that news was coming but I figured the WC was gonna get pulled.  Don't know why since that's the NHL's biggie and they probably don't want to drop it early.  Just seemed like it was likely to me by all the twittering going on.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: P-Siddy on October 26, 2012, 05:45 PM
I like the idea of a separation of the teams though...  Give the NY title to the Rangers...  Go for something grittier with the Brooklyn Islanders.  Go for the tougher sounding name.  I'd really enjoy it.

I understand what you mean, but the precedent is set in the other sports (besides basketball) with the Jets & Giants, Yankees & Mets and the hockey teams. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Nicklab on October 26, 2012, 06:19 PM
I can't see the Islanders doing that.  Especially since they have something of a legacy, if you look back to their dynasty during the 1980's.  Winning 4 Stanley Cups in a row is a legacy you don't walk away from so quickly.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on November 5, 2012, 09:09 PM
So I don't know if you guys have this going on locally but we've got "Classic NHL" games being played in place of the lockout games scheduled on our local station (Root Sports Pittsburgh).

Tonight's is Game 1 of the 92 finals.

I never realized how angry I could get at the officiating of a game that I already knew the outcome of. :)

Saw my first playoff game in person that year...  Game 1 of the Bruins series.

It's kind of fun seeing a Jagr I can stand too.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on November 14, 2012, 07:35 PM
FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!11!!!1  >:(

(http://www.wackybuttons.com/designcodes/110/1102400.jpg)
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on November 14, 2012, 10:15 PM
I really am just baffled. 

I understand the players are feeling stepped on.  OK, I accept that, you're getting shafted.  I'll leave my personal views aside on your stance.  If the season is cancelled you will get exactly zero dollars of income from your NHL employer this year (escrow doesn't count, you're paying yourself from previous years).  Zip.  Zero.  Nada. 

The owners will generate zero revenue from their playthings this year.  So they hurt too.  For ten or so of the teams that means they're losing profits outright and it hurts probably pretty badly.  Those are successful markets.  Another ten teams (generously stated) are break even teams so while they're hurting in the sense of damage to the market, they're neither winning nor losing.  The last ten teams are money losers and for them this ends up being LESS of a loss. 

That said, each of those owners has other income and revenue streams that are significantly larger and allowed them to purchase their playthings.  That other income is taxed.  They are able to write off the losses from their plaything against their general revenue so even if they're losing, they're still winning.  Twenty of the teams are net zero or losing while playing but are net positive while not playing because of tax write-offs.  The other ten teams are the ten teams the players want to increase the share of revenue that is spread around to the lesser teams.  Huh? 

So at what point are the player demands going to appeal to the entire group of owners?  Never would be the answer. 

So the players are left with losing the battle but being paid some percentage less than previously of the total NHL revenue stream (yes Virginia, revenue is NOT profit).  Essentially they're looking at, for the average player, a salary of 2.4 million dollars a year less about 25%.  That's a pretty serious kick in the nuts but help me out here, what are the alternatives? 

If the season goes, Phoenix will most likely fold or relocate.  If it relocates, the players are ok, but ya think Shane Doan is going to want to go to Quebec City? 

Bah, enough ranting.  Anyone figure the players are clever enough to understand this: Lock out clock (http://lockoutclock.com/).  Whatever Fehr put in the kool-aid is pretty potent
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on November 14, 2012, 10:51 PM
I'm just going nuts.  Honestly, I saw a pick up hockey game on a tennis court and almost stopped and set up a folding chair.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on November 15, 2012, 12:19 AM
If the season goes, Phoenix will most likely fold or relocate.  If it relocates, the players are ok, but ya think Shane Doan is going to want to go to Quebec City? 

I agree with you.. mostly. 

When you add in the lockout plus the "**** You Coyotes trying to take our public money" attitude of the new mayor in Glendale, I really don't see a way for them to stay.  Without the sweetheart arena deal, it makes no sense...

I disagree with you on Doan having to learn French though.  Everyone knows that America-loving Bettman will send the Coyotes north to Seattle and then make Hamilton/Toronto2 and Le Quebecors pay through the nose for their expansion teams.  Screw you again, Canada! ;)

I'm just going nuts.  Honestly, I saw a pick up hockey game on a tennis court and almost stopped and set up a folding chair.

I miss the Wild, but with all this college hockey around me, I'm not too starved.  Plus, the Wild are dragging the Houston Aeros up here for a game this weekend.  They gave out comp tickets to all the season ticket holders (to fill the building and make money off our popcorn, beer sales), so I'll be checking that out this weekend.  Will be nice to see some of the up-and-coming kids, though Granlund and Brodin are hurt and will likely miss the game. :(
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Nicklab on November 15, 2012, 05:27 PM
Bah, enough ranting.  Anyone figure the players are clever enough to understand this: Lock out clock (http://lockoutclock.com/).  Whatever Fehr put in the kool-aid is pretty potent

I've only been checking in on this thread once in a while since I'm not a serious NHL fan.  But when I saw Donald Fehr's name mentioned, I had to do a double take.  I had no idea that this guy had become the head of the NHLPA.  I knew him from his role with the MLBPA and the last round of collective bargaining talks between baseball's owners and the player's association.

Fehr definitely plays hardball with the owners.  He did that in the MLB talks.  And that's no doubt why the NHLPA sought out his services.  But I can't help but think that his style of negotiations may not work with the NHL owners.  No offense to hockey fans or players, but baseball has a significantly larger audience in the U.S. than hockey.  And with that larger audience and popularity comes more leverage.  But for the NHL, I think Brent hit the nail on the head with how the owners regard their teams.  The NHL may have over-expanded the number of franchises, and contraction is looking like a real possibility.  Or at least retreat to safer northern / Canadian markets like Quebec.  Fehr's negotiating style could elicit a response from the owners that may not be to the ultimate benefit of the players.  He needs to get them playing & working again.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: TheSon on December 6, 2012, 09:58 PM
Depressing. I never thought I might see a new Star Wars movie before my next NHL game.

God I hate Donald Fehr.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on December 7, 2012, 12:24 AM
Boom. 

http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/clip822014#clip822014 (http://watch.tsn.ca/nhl/clip822014#clip822014)

Never seen Bettman so pissed off.  I'm thinking the NHLPA may have made a very serious error in judgement.  Even the owner of the Jets is pissed off. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on December 20, 2012, 05:10 PM
There's a college tourny coming to town I may go to.  :-\
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on January 6, 2013, 12:39 PM
Welcome back.  Anyone wanting to join the JD fantasy hockey group is welcome.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Mikey D on January 6, 2013, 12:56 PM
About ******* time, a shortened season is better than no season.  Bettman and Fehr are still ********, though.

Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on January 6, 2013, 01:21 PM
About ******* time, a shortened season is better than no season.  Bettman and Fehr are still ********, though.

Yup.  This has done nothing for my love of the game, to say the least.  Ultimately though any restrictions on spending on teams will help the Jets down the road.  We ARE the definition of a small market team.  Economics locally are good right now, may not always be the case so this is beneficial to us. 

I will say though that my dislike of players has grown immensely over the last months.  It's stunning to read on places like yahoo in the comments how many people were still in favor of the players.  They're both idiots, players and owners and did themselves no favors at all. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: TheSon on January 6, 2013, 05:18 PM

     As far as the players, I can't agree more. Fans have seemingly become more and more of a nuisance to them in the last decade. Maybe social media is to blame, and we have too much access, but whatever it is instead of shaking hands and talking to kids, more and more of the players seem to want to be protected from the masses instead of embracing them. That is what always made me prefer hockey to baseball and football, and now sadly that my be slipping away. Hopefully they make a genuine effort to reach out to fans, but we will have to see how everything plays out.

     I also have a problem with how Bettman has been cast through all of this. He has helped expand the game, (as evidenced by players from 13 states including Florida and California on the Gold Medal US Junior Team). The league has never been more profitable. Other than fans in Atlanta, Hartford, and Quebec City home teams are still home teams. Some people will never be happy until every team has been removed from the league and only the original six remain, but for the rest of us there is a lot to root for.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on January 7, 2013, 10:57 PM
I'm giddy.  All the talk about line choices are making me giddy.

The rumors about trying for Sarge in some capacity are kinda fun too...  I don't believe them but imagine an insane scoring blue line between him and Letang.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Paul on January 8, 2013, 09:01 PM
Dallas got some dude named Jagr.  Hope he is decent...
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on January 8, 2013, 09:10 PM
There are some folks suggesting Jagr will challenge for the scoring title. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: TheSon on January 8, 2013, 09:50 PM
There are some folks suggesting Jagr will challenge for the scoring title.

....In my over 40 beer league :)
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on January 8, 2013, 10:02 PM
Jagr played well with Giroux but I'm not so sure he'll acheive anything similar with Dallas.

As far as him being "decent" are you talking about him personally or as a player.  Player sure, person, certainly a matter of debate.  :-*

He won the first Pens playoff game I ever went to see though, in OT.  Game 1 of the 92 Bruins series.  Never experienced anything like that before, so as a kid that always had an impression on me.  One of my favorite memories of any game I ever went to.  Met him sitting in traffic afterwards just below the Igloo.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on January 8, 2013, 10:37 PM
Oh I didn't say they were sane people.  They're the people that are taking the NHL players playing in Euro leagues results a wee bit too seriously. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on January 8, 2013, 11:38 PM
Oh thank god.

What were his #'s in Europe?  I didn't realize he was having a bang-up season there.

Malkin was doing well and that's helped fuel the, "Pittsburgh wants Sarge back!" rumors people are drooling over here.  Letang was there long enough to put a jersey on in St. Petersburg, and then fly home I guess.  yay!
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on January 9, 2013, 12:39 AM
I'll have to dig a bit for the exact numbers, but he was leading his team in scoring at nearly a point per game.  So some guys are calling for a renaissance year.  It would be interesting, but I don't think so. 

I've always been a huge Gonchar fan and rode his D to a number of wins but I gotta think he's over the hill too. 
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on January 9, 2013, 12:39 AM
There are some folks suggesting Jagr will challenge for the scoring title.

Hey now, some folks might have won fantasy NHL titles by taking a chance on him...

1.   Jeff's Hockey Team   856
I personally blame Jagr for this.  When you drafted him, I chuckled.  I had him lumped in with Hull, Lemieux and Roenick as guys that would retire during the season.  Definitely wrong on Jagr.  Guy that won our office pool picked him too.  I laughed then and I ain't laughing now.  Thornton being traded also helped out a lot.

 :-*

(damn...  you are making me want to play...   >:()
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Morgbug on January 9, 2013, 12:45 AM
short season
you'll be at the games anyway
teachable moment for the mini-Jeffs
doesn't matter if you weren't keeping up because of the lockout
chance to mock Canadians
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jeff on January 9, 2013, 01:39 PM
"Well today is the day we send our governors to NYC to sign the CBA.  I know, let's fire Brian Burke (http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=413146)." - someone in Maple Leafs ownership.

What a crazy thing to blow up your front office just as everyone is stressed trying to get their teams jump-started.  I'm guessing the "someone did/didn't want Luongo" speculation will be the correct cause of Burke's sudden dismissal...  we'll find out soon enough I guess.
Title: Re: NHL Offseason
Post by: Jesse James on January 9, 2013, 02:10 PM
Hah!  Toronto is like the Shannon Doherty of the NHL sometimes.