JediDefender.com Forums
Collectibles => Vintage Kenner => Topic started by: Hes No Good to Me Dead on August 5, 2004, 10:57 PM
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I'll let you look at these 2 auctions and let you decide. Look closely at the 2 cards.
My Auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5908787505&ssPageName=STRK:MESO:IT)
His Auction (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50271&item=5913329730)
I don't want to say about this exactly as I don't want to give to many people ideas on how to get a higher AFA grade.
Would this be worth contacting AFA about?
Perhaps it's just coincidence.
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My God!! I have to be the worst speller in the world. And talk about ironical titles.
Just a bit of a WARNING guys
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No Simon, your not the worst speller! ;D
First off, I would sent the pages of the auctions to yourself & save the pictures of both auctions. I just checked the AFA site as to reference to the Figure Archive to the grading.
Figure Detail
Serial Number: 1891212
Date Graded: July 28, 2004
Grade: 80 (NM)
Card: 80
Bubble: 80
Figure: 85
Year: 1978
Company: KENNER
Title: 12 BACK-B
Name: C-3PO
Variation: TAKARA STICKER
So it looks like he wins the figure of you & replace's a price sticker where it was removed on yours then sent to the AFA for grading. Then the AFA grades it & they may have missed the replacement of this sticker.
Reminds me of the time on RS were someone removed a figure from the bubble & marked the figure in a few places with a thin black marker then resealed it & off it it went to the AFA & they graded it. What an uproar that was.
You could contact the AFA but I'm unsure what they will do or say as the figure is not in there possession anymore. :-\
Though I would like to get better pics from the seller on the figure to see if that top left corner matched! ;)
So off I go & ask a seller a question! ;) ;D :-*
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The other thing that rang the alarm bells was this thread recently at RS.
RS Thread (http://threads.rebelscum.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=869894&Forum=f1&Words=cowtown&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Main=869894&Search=true&where=sub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=&newertype=w&olderval=2&oldertype=w&bodyprev=#Post869894)
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greatbigtoystore! Red Alert!
User ID Effective Date End Date
cowtowncollectables Feb-03-04 Present
greatbigtoystore Mar-25-03 Feb-03-04
great_big_toy_store Jun-27-02 Mar-25-03
americantoys Jan-29-01 Jun-27-02
Scammer! He reseals figures in baggies. >:( Missed the name change! :-[
Has anyone seen this???? (http://threads.rebelscum.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=108291&Forum=f1&Words=greatbigtoystore&Searchpage=0&Limit=999&Main=108291&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post108291)
Help Q about Greatbigtoystore (http://threads.rebelscum.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=125735&Forum=f1&Words=greatbigtoystore&Searchpage=0&Limit=999&Main=125735&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post125735)
greatbigtoystore has changed their name again (http://threads.rebelscum.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=132990&Forum=f1&Words=greatbigtoystore&Searchpage=0&Limit=999&Main=132990&Search=true&where=bodysub&Name=&daterange=1&newerval=1&newertype=y&olderval=&oldertype=&bodyprev=#Post132990)
My questions to the seller have been sent! ;) :-X
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That's interesting... But does the slight damage to the top corner in yours Simon, also show up on his? Definitely a sneaky thing if he took yours, with the price sticker goo on it, and just slapped a price sticker over it, sent it to AFA, and then doubled his money... :-\
Frankly, I think a sticker placed so prominently right across the middle of the character's picture on the front of a card, does NOT deserve as high as an 80 for card condition. That sticker is huge and unattractive IMO.
Pretty cool 12-back figure there though, that's for sure! Let us know how things play out if you contact AFA or anyone else. You too Dale, when you hear back from the seller! ;)
P.S. Simon, you know that you can go back and edit the actual thread title, right? (if you really wanted to correct the spelling there)
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Danm I'm good, ya hear that Matt! :-*
Found that thread over at RS on the reseal, hate to see something like this disappear forever!
Invisible Reseals (http://threads.rebelscum.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=56710&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1)
Not sure if anyone else ever saw the thread but have at it, it's great! ;)
I hope to hear back from the seller! ;D ;)
Crap, gotta run, big thunderstorm. 8)
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P.S. Simon, you know that you can go back and edit the actual thread title, right? (if you really wanted to correct the spelling there)
Thanks Matt. Just worked it out!
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You have a PM Simon. ;)
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After examining the photos though photo shop and comparing to my original photo's, I would bet my right arm they are the same figure with a price sticker put over the damaged area.
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I received a few pictures from my "ask seller a question" though a little blurry, Simon & I could make out what we were looking for.
Now that I have compared the pictures (Simon's & the ones sent), IMHO there exact!
A complete rip off of buying a figure & altering it by replacing a price sticker over the damaged area.
What kills me is the figure was sent to the AFA & it looks like this has bypassed there grading screening.
I hope to have the pictures up soon so you can judge yourself. The pics are huge so I have to play around with a hosting site.
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OK, I have done the pictures the best that I can. All you have to do is click on the thumbnails & enlarge.
Simon’s Figure
(http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/icth_Simons3POFront.JPG.jpg) (http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/Simons3POFront.JPG)
Cowtowncollectables Figure Top
(http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/icth_cowtowncollectablesTop.JPG.jpg) (http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/cowtowncollectablesTop.JPG)
Cowtowncollectables Figure Bottom
(http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/icth_cowtowncollectablesBottom.JPG.jpg) (http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/cowtowncollectablesBottom.JPG)
I have marked the pictures so that you will know which is Simon’s & Cowtowncollectables. I have circled the areas of concern with the pics stitched.
C-3PO Top Left Corner
(http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/icth_C-3POTopLeftCorner.jpg.jpg) (http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/C-3POTopLeftCorner.jpg)
Notice that there is a crease where the silver lines cross between the S & W, crease on the left tab & edge ware on the top.
C-3PO Sticker
(http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/icth_C-3POSticker.jpg.jpg) (http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/C-3POSticker.jpg)
This looks like a price sticker has been replaced over the damaged area, an oversized sticker!
C-3PO Right Edge
(http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/icth_C-3PORightEdge.jpg.jpg) (http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/C-3PORightEdge.jpg)
Crease just to the right side of Luke to the edge of the card & edge ware.
C-3PO Lower Left Corner
(http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/icth_C-3POLowerLeftCorner.jpg.jpg) (http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/C-3POLowerLeftCorner.jpg)
Lower left corner has ware & missing black ink & just above it a very small edge ware or piece of ink missing. Also notice that there is a very small amount of lift from the bubble that is the same shape design.
C-3po Bottom Bubble
(http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/icth_C-3POBottomBubble.jpg.jpg) (http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/C-3POBottomBubble.jpg)
There are 2 flat area bubble creases that look identical.
C-3PO Right Bubble
(http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/icth_C-3PORightBubble.jpg.jpg) (http://usera.imagecave.com/DSJ/C-3PORightBubble.jpg)
This is my favorite, look very close at the circled areas. There is a piece of dirt or loose cardboard shrapnel on the bubble. This looks like a perfect match IMHO.
So there you have it, this figure was bought off Simon on eBay then set to the AFA to be graded. It does appear that they missed the sticker completely. All other areas seem to match. Then the figure is sent back to Cowtowncollectable with a grading of 80 all the way across the board then put back on eBay for resale. Now buying a figure & reselling it is not a big concern, the concern is this figure may have been tampered with, altered to get a better grading thus commanding a higher price & unbeknown to the winner.
As far as I know, any figure that has been altered tampered with or any sign of restoration, the AFA will not grade it. As per the AFA site:
AFA reserves the right to determine what constitutes restoration. Examples: Resealed bubble, ink used to cover flaws .
Would not a possible sticker replacement over a damaged area be restoration or covering a flaw?
Do you think this is the same figure? You be the judge! Thoughts!
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Pretty hard to argue with.
So had Simon used goo-gone to get rid of the residue, could AFA tell that? Or is goo-gone + vintage just a huge ass no-no in the first place?
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I think AFA uses an ultraviolet light (neon) maybe those blue lights that were a fad yrs. ago. Anything that would be altered would show up same with scratches. Not sure if goo-gone or any other solvent residue would count.
Not sure but the sticker damage area looks like small parts of the card has been torn or there is still some paper from the sticker still attached. Simon?
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Goes to show once again, you STILL can't be sure what you get from figure grading, which STILL renders it utterly useless in my opinion.
Great pics and comparisons, this is the stuff I've been asking for for years, and no one wants anyone to see this becasue of all the people that have spent their $$ on AFA wouldn't want thier invesment to be rendered useless. To me this proves they are the Enron of the figure collecting world ;^)
Here's a completely obvious case of a tamperd figure still being graded! What a sham! I'd feel cheated if I dealt with them-professional graders my butt.
Great investigating DSJ!.....Brilliant! You are to be commended!
So now next time you see a graded figure on ebay now you should be able to get it for much MUCH less as we all know it now means absolutely nothing!
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one thing i don't get, and to me this is a major thing. if these guys are supposed to be "experts" on all things toys, and they are the major graders out there, wouldn't they know that this sticker was applied later? even if the sticker was/is perfect, you know what would make me wonder? take a look at the actual price that's on the sticker!! $12.98 for a 12/21 back figure?? if i remember correctly, those figures were closer to $1.98 or $2.98 back in the day. no way my mom would have bought all the ones she did for me if they were $13 each back then. that's crazy. that should have been an absolute tip off for them to take a better look at that sticker. it was the first thing i noticed about it, to be honest.
nice detective work dale, and thanks for those pics :D
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I never pulled the sticker off. I had been removed before I got it. The surface of the card was torn and there was no residue that I could see.
As for the price tag. Wouldn't the price be in Yen, seeings as it's a Takara figure? Or were these available for sale in the US too?
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Not sure if they were available during the vinty time era, maybe after market? Could be that some were brought over during the time. :-\
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As for the price tag. Wouldn't the price be in Yen, seeings as it's a Takara figure? Or were these available for sale in the US too?
that's probably an even better question than the actual price... what would a takara carded figure be doing at bradlee's???
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What kind of store is this Bradlee's?
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i believe they are all out of busines now, come to think of it. it was kinda like a k-mart type place, little bit of everything.
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Seems the seller sold the figure not long ago.
Vintage STAR WARS MOC AFA 80 12 back takara c3po c-3po
CARD-80 BUBBLE-8O FIGURE-85 RARE JAPAN TAKARA NOT KENER (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5915172459&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT)