JediDefender.com Forums
Community => Watto's Junk Yard => Topic started by: Jeff on September 14, 2007, 12:15 PM
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My pal Mike pointed something out to me today... apparently industry experts are expecting the price of toys to increase about 10% (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ilDn4_pViWMA0zQ2ggiUWUQ2Ykiw) after Christmas (since most stores have their Holiday Orders set already).
The higher oils prices affect so many things - cost of raw materials (plastic), cost of shipping (raw materials and finished goods) plus added costs for the new set of safety testing (at both manufacturer and retailer levels) after all the recent lead-based scares. It all leads to the presumed price increases...
So, will we see $7.75 for Star Wars figures in 2008? Will high prices ultimately be what kills the line?
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Yikes! I wonder what Targets that charge $7.64 now for figures will mark them? $8.49?
Nearly $10 bucks for a figure could kill the line. If not, I see them doing away with Legends all together and possibly limiting the number of figures in the basic line.
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From my own perspective, I think that would significantly reduce what I'm able to purchase moving forward. I mean would a 10% increase also affect what HasbroToyShop and StarWarsShop are charging for their exclusives? I would have to think yes so that will mean exclusives planned for next year could reach $20 per if they increase their prices 10% or more.
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Yeah, yikes indeed. Nearly $8 a figure would be a scary thought. Sure, we saw those prices in TPM days (or at least we did around here), but we've seen it come down since then. I've often wondered what pricing would make a lot of us drop "out of the game" so to speak. Its hard to say. So many of us (myself included) have paid $15-$25 for exclusive figures over the past couple years, so who knows how high would be too high.
I think jedijaybird's thoughts on doing away with Legends, and limiting the basic figure releases would be the start of how things would go. I definitely don't want the higher prices, but I could live with fewer releases, that's for sure. If everything did go up that much (or higher), I would have to reconsider what I could afford to collect. Its sometimes hard enough now just keeping up with the basic line (figures, comic packs, vehicles, etc.), so I wouldn't want to think about it at the higher pricepoint.
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Ouch.
Well, I'm already a non-completist, so it would only affect me to the extent that I'd be even more picky about what I buy. Though I could see this being a good incentive for Hasbro to trim some of the extraneous crap, tangential series, repacks, etc. from the line and concentrating on fewer higher-quality figures.
Random thought: would it also cause them to make fewer "copies" (units?) of each figure ... thus affecting collectibility and driving up secondary prices down the line?
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Though I could see this being a good incentive for Hasbro to trim some of the extraneous crap, tangential series, repacks, etc. from the line and concentrating on fewer higher-quality figures.
Although every line seems to have its fanbase, this is something I wouldn't mind seeing as well. We know Hasbro can put out some really nice figures, so just focus on making the entire line that way (this year really hasn't been too bad in that regard), and put out less figures throughout the year overall if the pricepoint goes up. If they want to do repacks without having a "Legends" line, just use the best of the best - VOTC Han, EB/VOTC Chewie, VTSC Luke X-Wing, etc. and they wouldn't have to worry about sculpting "new" versions of those character versions. Then the focus could be on new figures/characters, or resculpts of other POTF2 figures (and the main characters that haven't been done yet).
Trim off the excess stuff, lessen the releases all around, and focus in on quality product if they have to charge those higher prices. Looking at the "other" lines, I would guess something like Galactic Heroes probably has the largest following overall (speaking of Hasbro lines), and has to be a pretty good profit maker for them as well since so much can be re-used and they are fairly simple. It will be interesting to see how this plays out next year, and if we do see this increase.
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Ultimately it will impact my purchases as well and I doubt I do nearly the level of army building I do now if that's the kind of increases we see.
However, everything I've read about it implied that the 10% increase isn't across the board on toys either... Toys that already meet higher quality standards usually already cost a prettier dime, or so goes my understanding of things. They're saying things like Hot Wheels almost definitely will go up because the industry standards of those lines are lower. Knock-off toys are almost destined to go up (Corps, PTE, etc.), Barbie's as well which the oil prices have never impacted as far as prices go. Barbie's been fairly steadily priced for years.
Of course it's slightly early to panic on a SW increase in price regardless... I'm not concerned... yet. However, $8-ish SW figures would severely cut into what I spend. As it is, $7 has cut into what I spend on SW toys... It's beyond anything even comparable in the same scale (and in some cases, larger scales), and while figure quality's been pretty great in general, Hasbro's also seen to it that repackaged/rehashed figures are a clear-cut way they can make up production/development costs within the line for new product.
It's definitely news to watch though. Little disconcerting, but such is the "nothing's safe for our kids" kind of world we're in I guess. What happened to Bag 'O Glass? :)
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It's definitely news to watch though. Little disconcerting, but such is the "nothing's safe for our kids" kind of world we're in I guess. What happened to Bag 'O Glass? :)
Or "Johnny Space Commander Mask" or "Johnny Human Touch"
(http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/img/mainway.jpg)
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"Johnny Human Touch"
I had a friend whose uncle gave him the "Johnny Human Touch" for Christmas one year... he was never quite the same after that. :-X
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Price wise, the current $7 price was almost a deal breaker for me. If it hadn't been for the coins and the fact that the TAC line has been so well done I'd probably be buying less than I did last year. If they jump another $1 per figure I will be down to strictly new characters and, depending on who those characters are, maybe not even all of them.
I understand the need for safety in everything, not just toys, but if a company like Hasbro has been able to self regulate I think it sucks that they'd get penalized along with the other companies.
I do love this quote though: For her twin sons' birthday next month, McMorow will be avoiding traditional toys and looking at playswings or a sand box. "Nothing they can chew on or swallow," she said.
Like a kid has never eaten sand or bit off a chunk of his pressure treated swingset...
E...
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This issue should be raised in one of the Hasbro Q&As.
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lotsa paranoia here
the price is going up 10%?
Hmm, then how are getting figs are going so high again...?
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Being closer to China you'd think we'd get em cheaper.
We pay here at present between $15-17 aus for a basic figure, so $12-13.5US per fig.
If they go up more here I really dont think it would make much difference
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Hmm, then how are getting figs are going so high again...?
??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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This issue should be raised in one of the Hasbro Q&As.
Agreed
Hmm, then how are getting figs are going so high again...?
I don't understand this post for some reason. Jon?
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The increase is more likely due to the pissing match the US and China are getting into over the value of the dollar. China's taking advantage of our outrageous growing deficit and growing production vs consumption gap and trying to devalue the dollar. That's why all of a sudden we "caught" the high lead in those Mattel toys.
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Very interesting thought Anthony.
We're currently paying $8.99 to $9.99 per figure up here in Canuckia, so an increase above $10 is a very dangerous place for retailers to go. Paying "less than $10" to "more than $10" completely changes your thinking about the value of the figure, both for collectors and parents, and could really hurt sales.
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First of all, we don't know at this point if Hasbro will be affected. This situation stems from a backlash from the Mattel toys with the lead paint and loose magnets. It easy for them to say that they are going to tighten up on safety and have to increase costs 10%. The truth of the matter is that wages are increasing all over China. China is having a hard time curbing inflation and their rate of growth economically. China is trying desperately to avoid a recession. If China goes through a recession, prices will drop again.
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Very interesting thought Anthony.
We're currently paying $8.99 to $9.99 per figure up here in Canuckia, so an increase above $10 is a very dangerous place for retailers to go. Paying "less than $10" to "more than $10" completely changes your thinking about the value of the figure, both for collectors and parents, and could really hurt sales.
Somewhat debatable I'd think, or have you forgotten the POTJ era early on when only TRU was carrying the line in Canada and we were paying between $11.99 and 13.99 (plus taxes) for our figures? I very clearly recall paying over $15 after taxes because I found the Darth Maul Sith Apprentice figure at TRU.
I would agree that for parents there are ample other choices that are larger and probably offer better play value than a $10 star wars figure. I still maintain that the number of collectors strongly outweighs the number of kids buying this line, but perhaps that's skewed by Canadian perspective where figures haven't been at that low price margin for a long time.
I think Anthony has hit on a very important aspect as well. The value of the US dollar has been in decline for nearly 4 years now and much more rapidly over the past 12-18 months against worldwide currencies. When you couple that with increasing oil prices the increases seem realistic. But given our prices in Canada have not risen over the past 2-3 years (longer, actually) and yours have started to approach ours, I think the currency issue plays a stronger role than the oil issue.
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This issue should be raised in one of the Hasbro Q&As.
Agreed
Hmm, then how are getting figs are going so high again...?
I don't understand this post for some reason. Jon?
I know, it's probably because I sucked at it. My bad...
Basically, what I was saying was a 10% increase really doesn't amount to much price increase...Our figures certainly aren't going up to 8$ with a 10% increase. I guess I could understand if a figure was 100$ for example and had a 10% increase so now it's 110$- but we're nowhere near that situation yet. So... I'm not panicking.
DS
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Our figures certainly aren't going up to 8$ with a 10% increase.
Let's see, here in MN:
Target price = $6.99
Tax = 6.5% = $0.45
Final Price = $7.44
+10% increase = $7.69
Tax = 6.5% = $0.50
Final Price = $8.19
Seems like an $8 figure to me... am I missing something? ???
10% doesn't seem like much, but if you buy 100 figures in a year, it's an extra $75.
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Our figures certainly aren't going up to 8$ with a 10% increase.
DS
Close enough.
And there really is no difference between $100 and $7. In the end, 10% is 10%.
Surely you spend over $100 on figures a year so your argument is moot.
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Very interesting thought Anthony.
We're currently paying $8.99 to $9.99 per figure up here in Canuckia, so an increase above $10 is a very dangerous place for retailers to go. Paying "less than $10" to "more than $10" completely changes your thinking about the value of the figure, both for collectors and parents, and could really hurt sales.
Somewhat debatable I'd think, or have you forgotten the POTJ era early on when only TRU was carrying the line in Canada and we were paying between $11.99 and 13.99 (plus taxes) for our figures? I very clearly recall paying over $15 after taxes because I found the Darth Maul Sith Apprentice figure at TRU.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall and see Hasbro Canada's sales during the POTJ era, because I remember it as being very lean times. Availability was almost nonexistent at retail and I had to resort to a scalper shop in Saskatoon to get my figures since the only ones I could ever find were the Han Solo Bespin wave at Wal-Mart. I always assumed that retail didn't want to sell the figures because of the drastic price increases.
The value of the US dollar has been in decline for nearly 4 years now and much more rapidly over the past 12-18 months against worldwide currencies. When you couple that with increasing oil prices the increases seem realistic. But given our prices in Canada have not risen over the past 2-3 years (longer, actually) and yours have started to approach ours, I think the currency issue plays a stronger role than the oil issue.
Excellent point. The Canadian dollar has hit a 30 year high at over $0.97US, so hopefully this will help offset any impact from the rising cost of oil. However, realistically, Canadian sales are such a small fraction compared to the US, so I wouldn't be surprised to still see the price on the peg go up.
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Our figures certainly aren't going up to 8$ with a 10% increase.
Let's see, here in MN:
Target price = $6.99
Tax = 6.5% = $0.45
Final Price = $7.44
+10% increase = $7.69
Tax = 6.5% = $0.50
Final Price = $8.19
Seems like an $8 figure to me... am I missing something? ???
10% doesn't seem like much, but if you buy 100 figures in a year, it's an extra $75.
Yes some.
You're numbers are based on SW collectors doing their shopping at Target...which I mostly don't(I realize Target is 'big' up there-and your WM's suck and never have anything-based on what I've read from your posters up there).
Additionally, I wasn't including taxes-because they were never mentioned.
I won't notice the increase since I typically get a gas tax refund of between 125$ to 200$ annually anyway, so I'm really not panicking much.
EDIT: My math was incorrect, our sales tax is 8%, not 10%! SO after tax from buying a 10% price increase figure at WM our price should be $7.87 ;)
DS
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Our figures certainly aren't going up to 8$ with a 10% increase.
Let's see, here in MN:
Target price = $6.99
Tax = 6.5% = $0.45
Final Price = $7.44
+10% increase = $7.69
Tax = 6.5% = $0.50
Final Price = $8.19
Seems like an $8 figure to me... am I missing something? ???
10% doesn't seem like much, but if you buy 100 figures in a year, it's an extra $75.
Yes, you are missing the fact that you could move to a sales tax free state like Delaware where I get my figures. ;)
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I'm not missing that fact ;)
there are plenty of sales tax free states- they got it made!
:)
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Don't they just have a zillion percent property tax to make up for it? Or more tolls? They'll get revenue from you somehow.
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When I see stuff like this, it makes me so thankful that I got out of the modern game a couple of years ago. I still wonder through the toy section from time to time, but can't tell you the last time I bought a figure.
Thankfully it's all vintage now. Of course, we still see the price spikes from time to time, but that is kind of expected at this point.
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I agree with Nate. I'm not a completionist either and the price would be getting up there for a little piece of articulated plastic.
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I'm not missing that fact ;)
there are plenty of sales tax free states- they got it made!
:)
I was thinking Oregon was the last sales tax free state left. Good to know there are others. Sales that always throws me off when I go out of state. I am not that Washington, but most the time I forget about sales tax when I go to stores there.
If they are increasing the price of the figures, I definitely am cutting back. The current price for star wars figures is too high in my opinion considering there are largers figures from different toy lines with far better articulation with the same price. Just ridiculous.
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Toy shortages expected for the holidays (http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/03/news/companies/toy_shortage/index.htm?section=money_topstories)
Hmm...could this be the lead in before a possible increase in toys?
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So, will we see $7.75 for Star Wars figures in 2008?
Now that we are a ways into 2008, I thought it would be a good time to bump this thread...
Based on what we've seen so far, it sure seems like a lot of the toy lines out there have seen the predicted 10% price increase (or more):
- GI Joe basic figure prices have gone up almost $1
- MSRP on new Clone Wars figs = $7.99 (yet to be seen at stores though)
- Titaniums = 2008 price increase
- Galactic Heroes = 2008 price increase
I'm sure there are other increases out there, these are just off the top of my head.
Thoughts? Have the price increases led you to stop collecting any particular line?
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Thoughts? Have the price increases led you to stop collecting any particular line?
They're about to. I just posted in the GI Joe thread about this. It's going to get me to cut back on that line already. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about the SW lines when they get bumped, presumably, on July 26th.
I cut back some during the first couple months of the year as there were only two waves of SW due, but last week I picked up a half dozen Indy figs plus a couple GI Joe figures and I'm looking to add both Indy trucks plus a couple Deluxe sets next time I find them. If it weren't for the Target coupon, though, I might not have picked up any of the Indy figures last week. That brought them to a slighly more affordable price of $6.24.
I guess I'm going to have to think about the SW line over the next two months and decide what I'm going to do.
E...
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The whole price issue has definitely got me to start prioritizing what I collect even more so than I have in the past. Part of it is due to the price per item increase, but to be honest a lot of it is just the fact that there is so much stuff out in a given year for the lines I'm interested in (Star Wars in particular). Not that I don't like the product, but as I've mentioned in some other threads here, I kind of envy those first years of modern Star Wars where there was only 12-30 figures per year. I'd want more than 12, but the overall releases could definitely slow down for me - especially when we're getting $100 vehicles too :). I think, as far as the items go, this is the most I've enjoyed collecting in a long time. Great things like the new Falcon, VOTC figures, Indy figures, and the great comic stuff is all really spiffy - but the budget is having a tougher time handling it all these days. I miss the days of $4.99 figures :P.
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We haven't seen much of a price increase up north really. Prices were in many instances pretty darn steep anyway (SW $9.99 per basic fig; marvel legends $14.95, etc.) plus I think we're sort of reaping some benefit of the US dollar falling relative to Canadian dollar. So we haven't really been affected too much as our prices were always substantially higher. I think most Canadian product comes out of distribution in the US rather than directly from overseas, so our purchasing power went up while your dollar went down.
Has it affected me? Nah, not really. I'm sort of naturally declining in terms of collecting anyway, much as many others are. For me it has meant not buying everything regardless of whether I actually want it or not. Selectivity kicked in before any price increases actually started to affect me. So it's been largely a non-issue for me.
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I can't remember the last modern figure I bought. So the price increase isn't affecting me at all.
But, I will probably dish out money for my first modern purchase in years when I pick up the MF this summer. I've got to have one of those.
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It pretty much cut in where I figured it would. I've cut back on duplicates of anything I buy, I will not be collecting animated CW figures for certain, and so on. Unfortunately my 1:18 military toy line(s) are seeing a bump in price due to shorter production runs, but it's a hell of a lot more than 10%, so I'll be cutting back there as well. It's mostly on vehicles, not figures, so figures are still $4.99 or $5.99 depending where you shop (and $8.99-ish for 2-packs).
SW figures I know I've cut back on some army building where I otherwise wouldn't have (FU troopers I've passed on now, and Juno Eclipse figures). The cost of gasoline hasn't helped either. Had that been cheaper I maybe wouldn't have thought so much about that extra figure here and there, but at the current prices it's a much easier pass.
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Its ok I will just make sure that I do not buy the repacks and repaints...I had already planned on cutting back this year..just makes it that much easier.
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Is the price of our favorite toys going up again this Fall?
Hasbro hosted a webconference (http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?p=irol-eventDetails&c=68329&eventID=1887699) this morning to announce their Second Quarter 2008 Results (follow the link to listen for yourself). Included in the presentation was news of a mid-level, single digit percent price hike on all Hasbro toys beginning September 1st.
In the webconference, Hasbro said that all of the customers (their customers, not us) have been informed of the price hikes. I am really hoping that means that Target's recent round of price increases this month (on Indy, SW, GI Joe, etc) was them staying ahead of the curve on this one because it's really going to suck if the price of everything is going up again in a few months. :(
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Man, Star Wars guys aren't worth eight bucks each. If they really hit nine, I am sooo done.
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Honestly, $7.99 for a basic action figure is pretty ridiculous in the 3.75" scale. Even in the Saga Legends wave, with the new Equipment Lockers. Is a 3.75" Clone Trooper with maybe a blaster and antenna now worth $8 when we were paying $6.50 last week at Wal-Mart? Not really. You walk into Target with $20 and you get 2 figures and the change won't even get you half a gallon of gas at the pump now.
If they go to $8.99 that'll be a $2 raise in one year and $4 in three years, nearly doubling the price from the ROTS line.
I knew that I would be cutting back in 2008 again, after an expanded 2007, but I had planned on buying the Indy figures and some select GI Joe figures. Now I'm cutting way back on the Joes, almost to the point of not buying basic carded figures (but the DVD Battle Packs are a helluva deal at $20), and I may skip the Indy line altogether even though I was looking forward to the Last Crusade and Temple of Doom waves.
Friday night I plan on getting a CW R2-D2 and 5 of the first wave of TLC figures (and the free Holo Grievous) and that's it. That's just over $50 with tax. Beyond that I do want pretty much the entire wave 2 of TLC but none of wave 3. I'm looking at two figures (Ahsoka & Oddball) from wave 2 of the CW line and one (Plo Koon) from wave 3.
I'm now planning on skipping both the AT-TE and Falcon and the only vehicles I'll probably buy are the Republic Gunships, including the action figure size, Titanium and Lego. The rest I'll skip or wait on, wait for sales, coupons, re-packs, something.
E...
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I have to admit, I'm one of the suckers that's kept buying as the prices have continued to go up. Things are starting to get a little too expensive to do that at this point though, with price increases in Star Wars, Indy, Joe, and about everything else I'm interested in. I'd be curious to see how many people would cut back or drop out if we start seeing $9 basic figures. Heck, it sounds like we'll be at $8 the way it is, so its not far off. So far, the price increase is leading me to think about the "other" lines I collect, but I've been sticking with Star Wars so far.
The other thing is that combined with the price increases, the just crazy pace of releases (with Star Wars in particular) is just a lot to keep up with anymore, at least for me. Heck, that's why I have to pick and choose with the big release this weekend. There seems to be more stuff out (money wise at least) than there was for the ROTS release, a movie that was much more hyped than the Clone Wars Animated stuff is. If we're going to get in a situation where basic figures are $10+ (VOTC prices, or even worse), then the only way I could likely keep up is if the releases were cut back to the early POTF2 type numbers of 20-30 figures per year. That's something I wouldn't mind personally (the release pace slowing, not the price increases), although I know others probably feel differently.
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At $7.99 I'm drawing all sorts of lines...
No more carded and loose collecting, I'm only buying loose.
And no more army building of any kind - Hasbro gets to sell me one of everything from here on out and no more.
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I've pretty much given up on collecting Hasbro figures. I've even been comptemplating dumping the whole lot. Feels like I'm selling a piece of my soul if I do that though. I've been buying lots of Kubricks and Sidesdow Figures so that is more than enough cash to keep my collecting habit going.