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Collectibles => Past Hasbro 3.75" Lines => The Legacy Collection => Topic started by: Scott on July 22, 2009, 07:19 PM

Title: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Scott on July 22, 2009, 07:19 PM
From JTA

http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/content/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4951

Sweet!!!!
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Greg on July 22, 2009, 07:22 PM
Looks cool, but I think I'll pass. It's about as useful to me a those hologram figures. Hopefully Kentucky Fried Beru&Owen won't be too far behind... that would be cool to see.  >:D
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Ryan on July 22, 2009, 07:32 PM
Very cool. I'll definitely be picking this one up. :)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Nicklab on July 22, 2009, 07:34 PM
Notice the closed flap on the tunic?  Nice!

Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Brian on July 22, 2009, 08:42 PM
Wow, this is a nice surprise, and very cool.  I'll definitely be picking one up as well - I wonder where this will turn up at, since the battle packs are supposed to go towards the "slim design" in the near future (or by next year at least, I can't remember).
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Brian on July 22, 2009, 11:25 PM
Just read at JTA that according to their sources, this doesn't have an "exclusive" home yet - and they are still pitching it to retailers.  For now, they are gauging collector reaction/interest, and it would be at best a late 2010 item.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: P-Siddy on July 22, 2009, 11:28 PM
Ahh, that's good to know! This is an interesting "Battlepack". Will be nice to see some close-ups and find out. I know a lot of people have wanted this Vader. And with this pyre, can we expect a Qui-Gon one to follow?
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darby on July 22, 2009, 11:29 PM
Hmmm.... looks good, but is it something you really need?
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JediJman on July 22, 2009, 11:33 PM
Hmmm.... looks good, but is it something you really need?

Agreed.  This is a "wait for the sale" item IMO.  Wouldn't mind having it, but it's an easy pass when it pops up at $30. 
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jayson on July 22, 2009, 11:37 PM
Hmmm.... looks good, but is it something you really need?

Agreed.  This is a "wait for the sale" item IMO.  Wouldn't mind having it, but it's an easy pass when it pops up at $30.  

The way pricing is going, $30 might be cheap in 2011. I wouldn't mind seeing the as the '11 SDCC exclusive.

(http://jedijaybird.home.comcast.net/pyresign.jpg)
Image courtesy: JTA
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JesseVader08 on July 22, 2009, 11:48 PM
Looks pretty cool, it's an easy buy for me being a Vader nut.  But I'd love to get a better look from the top to see what he looks like with those flames.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Scott on July 22, 2009, 11:50 PM
I'd buy one those in a heart beat...I imagine something akin to the Vader/Emperors head theme where you push a button, the flames glow orange and the Force theme plays in the background
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jeff on July 22, 2009, 11:55 PM
I'd buy one those in a heart beat...

Dittos...  that funeral pyre dealie is all kinds of sweet.  Lights and sound make it even better.  I vote "yes, please".  :)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JesseVader08 on July 23, 2009, 12:00 AM
I love that idea Scott.  I thought the sound chip with the 'Disturbance in the Force' set was fantastic.  Lighting up of the flames would be a great touch too.

This seems like it fits the mold of a Convention exclusive - Celebration V?
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Rob on July 23, 2009, 12:00 AM
I definitely want one.

Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Diddly on July 23, 2009, 12:02 AM
Why the hell do they even need to ask if they should make this? I'd buy one instantly.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: P-Siddy on July 23, 2009, 12:15 AM
Why the hell do they even need to ask if they should make this? I'd buy one instantly.

They just want your permission, kind sir.  ;D
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Rob on July 23, 2009, 12:34 AM
This is exactly the sort of never-before-made thing that Hasbro should be getting into.

I agree that it's a no-brainer.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on July 23, 2009, 12:40 AM
Without a doubt make it. I pay $40 if it had lights and sounds. I would pay $50 if it plays the Ewok Yub-Yub song.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jayson on July 23, 2009, 12:48 AM
It does/will have lights and sound.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: CHEWIE on July 23, 2009, 12:52 AM
Hmmm.... looks good, but is it something you really need?

I'm in the same boat... most people could throw together a handful of sticks and probably make something that looks a lot better than this.   But, I might bite if they release it with the flames being removable.

Anyways, I think it's great to see Hasbro considering this, but I just don't think it looks nearly as good as what they are capable of.  If it paves the way for a funeral Padme figure though, then I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Rob on July 23, 2009, 01:42 AM
Do those of us who want it a favor and let Hasbro know that it's awesome.   ;)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darth Broem on July 23, 2009, 01:57 AM
I would be all over this.  I understand lights but what sounds would it be?  Crackling fire? 
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: evenflow on July 23, 2009, 02:05 AM
I couldn't get a good picture...i took a bunch but sadly this is the best one.

(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l59/evenflow666/HPIM0490.jpg)

I so want one.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jesse James on July 23, 2009, 02:11 AM
Do those of us who want it a favor and let Hasbro know that it's awesome.   ;)

Seconded.  I'd buy it in a heartbeat.  It's simply fantastic as a display piece, and it's the kind of actual iconic piece this line needs.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JediMoses on July 23, 2009, 03:22 AM
I am in - for two if I have to.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jesse James on July 23, 2009, 03:27 AM
Too bad they didn't ask us about the Gellagrub so we could've said, "Well, if you include a 2nd figure, or articulate the grub or something, sure".
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Nicklab on July 23, 2009, 05:00 AM
I would be all over this.  I understand lights but what sounds would it be?  Crackling fire? 

It is definitely crackling fire.  I heard the audio in a demo from Derryl DePriest.  And we have video of that at JTA, but sorry...no audio!
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JabbaJoe on July 23, 2009, 08:42 AM
This thing looks awesome!  I thought Hasbro said they would never make anything like this. :o  I am so glad they changed their minds.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JediJman on July 23, 2009, 10:25 AM
This thing looks awesome!  I thought Hasbro said they would never make anything like this. :o  I am so glad they changed their minds.

I would have thought a toy depicting a son lighting his dead father on fire was a no-go for Hasbro as well, but I guess they caved after thinking about all the cool play interaction you could have with a set like this.   ;)

Still not a fan of it, but nice to see some thinking outside the box on new items.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Master_Phruby on July 23, 2009, 10:25 AM
Remember when Hasbro says they will "never make this", that's code for "coming next year".
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: knashdx on July 23, 2009, 10:33 AM
I would be up for buying 2 of them.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: jedi_master_sal on July 23, 2009, 12:43 PM
I'm totally down for this and Hasbro can reuse most of it for a Qui-gon funeral pyre as well.

MAKE IT HASBRO!!!!
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: iFett on July 23, 2009, 12:53 PM
I'm totally down for this and Hasbro can reuse most of it for a Qui-gon funeral pyre as well.

MAKE IT HASBRO!!!!

Down as well.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darth Broem on July 23, 2009, 01:05 PM
...and we have to have a funeral Padme.  Even though she does not burn  :)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Ryan on July 23, 2009, 02:32 PM
It is definitely an iconic scene from the OT. I'm down for sure on this one if they end up making it, and I really hope that they do. It is one of the better pieces at SDCC this year, and it has been a really good showing, so that's saying something.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: jedipurge on July 23, 2009, 04:42 PM
As a toy I'd buy it.
But from the movie the thing that bothered me from that scene was that the wood was chopped, didn't Luke have a lighsaber  :-\
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: CHEWIE on July 23, 2009, 05:08 PM
The more I look at this, it definitely reminds of a Hallmark ornament.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on July 23, 2009, 05:12 PM
Someone mentioned earlier to make this next years SDCC exclusive, they really should, just like the Vader/Palps scene from last year.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on July 28, 2009, 02:38 AM
I guess one should never underestimate the power of martyring a product.  I smell a turkey.

Would you honestly pay $30 or so, and maybe shipping, for this?  It wouldn't be a $20 item.  If this were a $13 comic pack I'm sure I'd be seeing the exact opposite reaction regarding more of the same, Hasbro putting the screws to fans, etc. etc.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Rob on July 28, 2009, 02:55 AM
Would you honestly pay $30 or so, and maybe shipping, for this?  It wouldn't be a $20 item.

Yep.  I don't do customs, and I'd love to get this scene onto the shelves.  $22.99 - $24.99 sounds about right for it.  It's essentially a cinema scene / battle pack.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on July 28, 2009, 04:14 AM
Would you honestly pay $30 or so, and maybe shipping, for this?  It wouldn't be a $20 item.

Yep.  I don't do customs, and I'd love to get this scene onto the shelves.  $22.99 - $24.99 sounds about right for it.  It's essentially a cinema scene / battle pack.

Except that it isn't, and it's going to be $30+ if it gets made.  If it goes online only it's probably going to be more by a couple of bucks.   Would it be as appealing at a $30 price point, before tax and possibly shipping?  Or are you, like me, a fan that will buy pretty much anything?

Custom or no, there's really nothing appealing here at that price outside the fact that our being shown this has created a "gap" in our collections which may never be filled.  And last week, we probably wouldn't have ever cared either way.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darth_Anton on July 28, 2009, 11:29 AM
I told Hasbro yes. Neat idea. The asked me what I think people would pay for it, I said people would start grumbling if it was more than $30.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: iFett on July 28, 2009, 11:36 AM
AP - I'm curious to know why you disliked the set.  I thought it looked pretty neat for what it was and yes I'd pay $30 for this.

The Funeral Pyre for Darth Vader set was a blemish on an otherwise shining product offering, and if you liked that set, I'm sorry. You're wrong.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Rob on July 28, 2009, 11:38 AM
Except that it isn't, and it's going to be $30+ if it gets made.  If it goes online only it's probably going to be more by a couple of bucks.   Would it be as appealing at a $30 price point, before tax and possibly shipping?  Or are you, like me, a fan that will buy pretty much anything?

Custom or no, there's really nothing appealing here at that price outside the fact that our being shown this has created a "gap" in our collections which may never be filled.  And last week, we probably wouldn't have ever cared either way.

Yes.  I'm a collector.  What gets me the most excited about continuing to collect is new items that I haven't bought already.

The difference between $25 and $30 isn't going to kill me.  I spent way too much on that crappy Joker Squad, I'd much rather overpay a little bit to buy an iconic, never-before-made movie scene.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: GrandMoffNick on July 28, 2009, 11:46 AM
AP - I'm curious to know why you disliked the set.  I thought it looked pretty neat for what it was and yes I'd pay $30 for this.

The Funeral Pyre for Darth Vader set was a blemish on an otherwise shining product offering, and if you liked that set, I'm sorry. You're wrong.

I'm just glad that someone is out there to tell me that my opinion on what I like is wrong. Thanks you saved me some money in the future.  :P
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on July 28, 2009, 03:41 PM
AP - I'm curious to know why you disliked the set.  I thought it looked pretty neat for what it was and yes I'd pay $30 for this.

After finding my first release in the modern line for 14 years this week (8/1/1995 Hantrooper Froot Loops box!), the last thing I want is premium priced figures.  Particularly if they're things that I may already have.   This is just another "Disturbance in the Force," which, IIRC, struggled to sell through and now goes for less than issue price on eBay.   ($15-$20 for Darth Vader I Have plus Display Stand I Don't is a dull product.)

If we didn't have over 1,000 different modern-era figures, or if this happened to be the "2,000th Figure Gift Set," or something that might make it special-- as someone opined, even as a Celebration exclusive-- sure, whatever, this might not be terrible.  But as a standard release without significant fanfare or some event to *make* it special, it's just another very expensive exclusive.   Between now and the end of 2009, we're looking at over $640 of Hasbro 3 3/4-inch exclusives.   Compared to that new AT-ST, Dewback, TIE Interceptor, and everything else, this simply does not compare unless Hasbro goes out of their way to make it special by tying it in to an event (Celebration V), an anniversary (ROTJ's 30th is 2013), a milestone (are we at 1,750 yet?), or *something.*

I have spare Darth Vaders from countless gift sets I bought to get *other* figures, and a box of matches.   I can totally make this scene happen in real-time without shelling out $30.  (If it had a unique Ewok or Rebel Pilot, I'd get excited.  But it don't.  So I'm not.)

Keep in mind I open and futz with my figures-- I am not won over by unique dioramas in the packaging if the figures aren't exciting or present a unique change.  If I were to write a FOTD column about either, at least from what I saw at the show, it would be "this is the same release as X, except now it has a torch" for Luke or "This is the Darth Vader figure from this other release" for Vader.  A pile of wood doesn't make for an interesting accessory if the price is too high.  I'm not saying Hasbro won't sell a few thousand units to some very eager fans-- because of how I treat the hobby, I'd take one to make certain that it is indeed the same thing when it comes time to write about it-- but unless they market this right, I don't expect that you're going to see a lot of traction with the typical fan, the person who *doesn't* post on forums.

Wow, that was long.

Conversely, I don't understand what's so great about it and why everybody all of a sudden loves it.  Unless you don't have a lot of Lukes or Vaders yet, in which case I can get where you're coming from.

If this were announced as a $25 Target exclusive or $30-$35 ShopStarWars.com item, I assume I'd be seeing total silence from those who like it or the opposite reaction, with a similar amount of posts hating on it.  Over the years-- and I have been keeping track-- every time Hasbro announces a product and a "we might not make this" comment gets out, people start freaking out about this marvelous item they will never be able to have, even if it isn't necessarily all that great.  I myself had the same reaction when I first found out about all the unproduced Kenner toys from 1977-1986 in Star Wars: From Concept to Screen to Collectible and other books, specifically all those Ewoks and Droids cartoon figures plus, yes, the original Gargan action figure.  And again when those Kay-Bee exclusive 00M-9 and Obi-Wan Kenobi figures got the axe.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Rob on July 28, 2009, 03:59 PM
Well ****, then don't buy one. 

In the mean time don't sit around and talk about how Hasbro shouldn't make something that other people do want made.  You lose nothing if they do make it, and a lot of us are happy.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: GrandMoffNick on July 28, 2009, 04:02 PM
Well ****, then don't buy one. 

In the mean time don't sit around and talk about how Hasbro shouldn't make something that other people do want made.  You lose nothing if they do make it, and a lot of us are happy.

I tried my hardest not to post the same thing in reply. Thanks for doing it.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jayson on July 28, 2009, 04:04 PM
If/when they do make it, I hope they have the foresight to make sure Vader doesn't have his right hand.  ;)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: David on July 28, 2009, 04:07 PM
If/when they do make it, I hope they have the foresight to make sure Vader doesn't have his right hand.  ;)

Good point.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jesse James on July 28, 2009, 04:35 PM
Quote
Conversely, I don't understand what's so great about it and why everybody all of a sudden loves it.  Unless you don't have a lot of Lukes or Vaders yet, in which case I can get where you're coming from.

And equally so, a lot of people discussing this with you don't understand, what you don't understand, is so good about it.

For me, it's an iconic moment.  It's the moment at the end of the Saga that means something to a lot of people, myself included, seeing Luke setting his father's body (and ultimately his former self) on fire the way Jedi "say goodbye" I guess.  It's not setting up twigs and setting an extra Vader figure on fire, which is something I maybe would've done when I was 10 and also tied Han to a bottlerocket.  It's a permanent light/sound display one can enjoy.

Will people turn their noses up at it?  Without a doubt some will, based on price, or lack of firing missles or new figures.  Some people are int he hobby for different reasons.  Others like the iconic stuff.  I paid full price for the Vader/Emperor Head and I don't regret that in the slightest.  It's cool to me.

I also skip lots of vehicles because they're not made to-scale...  Other people think I'm nuts because that Sith Infiltrator rocked, or the ARC-170 was a great toy.  Me, I look at it differently and feel they weren't up to snuff because this or that could've been made a hair larger and it wasn't.  Different strokes for different folks.

The way I collect, I dig that Funeral Pyre because THAT is a centerpiece type of set.  That's the kind of thing that fleshes out a ROTJ shelf very nicely with all the Endor figures around it.  So I voted yes.  Ideallly it'll be $25 to $30.  More will certainly sting more for me.

But simply, I like it.  To me, things like that are better than the Turbo Tank, or a number of other items.  I'll be glad if they make it ultimately.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: jedi_master_sal on July 28, 2009, 04:38 PM
At $20 I'll buy it. Maybe $25. But $30 or more, hmm, I'll wait for it to clearance.  Like others have said, it's not like we don't have plenty of extra Luke/Vaders.

But I do hope it gets made for those who want it.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on July 28, 2009, 04:54 PM
Well ****, then don't buy one. 

In the mean time don't sit around and talk about how Hasbro shouldn't make something that other people do want made.  You lose nothing if they do make it, and a lot of us are happy.

First, he asked why I didn't like it.  Would you rather I have just said "I don't like it so there?"  I HATE that.  I also don't get why everybody likes this unless it's out of spite at the thought that they can't have it.

I don't want to see duds enter the marketplace, particularly when this item aimed at collectors will likely eat up a slot for another, better item aimed at collectors.  Seeing that other exclusive items include a new AT-ST and a stunning Dewback, this is the most boring thing from the show.  There's a reason they're not saying they're making it, and if it had support in the marketplace, I assure you it would have been announced and dated.  Has Hasbro ever shown something at a show with that kind of a note on it before? Something ain't right here.

Nobody wants you to be "glad they made it," if you are saying that it's totally a must-buy at $30-- or more, more likely-- that's great to hear.  It's not going to be $15, it's not going to be $20.  And it's certainly not as cool as 1/3 of a Turbo Tank or AT-TE, and I say this as someone biased toward the original trilogy, specifically ROTJ being my favorite toy movie (ewoks, bikes, starfighters, character designs, etc.-- it's the best.)

If it makes you feel any better/worse, I have a similar opinion about the McQuarrie box sets-- I don't expect them to be a huge success because of the price and the fact that they're no longer existing in a marketplace where they have a distinct look that makes them look like a "chase" product.  And I LOVE the McQuarrie figures.  It's not about sentiment here.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: darthjaybay on July 28, 2009, 04:59 PM

"A pile of wood doesn't make for an interesting accessory if the price is too high."  


But a dirty igloo does make an interesting accessory?  Oh, and that igloo costs $50 with two out of date figures!  
I actually bought that igloo and will happily buy 2 of these Vader Funeral Pyre sets.  Point being, just because it is not interesting to one doesnt mean it wont appeal to others!  
Actually, In my opinion this set would be better than most exclusive sets released to date... I still dont even know where the joker squad comes from!
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on July 28, 2009, 05:18 PM

"A pile of wood doesn't make for an interesting accessory if the price is too high."  


But a dirty igloo does make an interesting accessory?  Oh, and that igloo costs $50 with two out of date figures!  
I actually bought that igloo and will happily buy 2 of these Vader Funeral Pyre sets.  Point being, just because it is not interesting to one doesnt mean it wont appeal to others!  
Actually, In my opinion this set would be better than most exclusive sets released to date... I still dont even know where the joker squad comes from!

No, it's not.  You're absolutely right.   The Lars homestead set was a horrible value, with 3 figures-- two of which that were old-- for a very high price.  The clearance racks show this, and I'm sure that if you showed it to fans with a sign saying "Should we make this? Might cost $50. Let us know!" the response would be an overwhelming "YES PLEASE MAKE IT ZOMG!!!"  There's very little we'll say "no" to if you ask us as a group.  We LOVE our hobby, and everything about it, generally until it comes time to pull the trigger and buy.  The Sarlacc set was a pretty awful deal particularly considering the quality of the figures.

The Joker Squad set got a largely positive response, and obviously, not everybody likes the troopers from the Star Wars Legacy comics.  You can hate it, you're welcome to your opinion, just like you're welcome to like the pyre set.*  I will say that at least in terms of value, 6 figures for $40 is more appealing to me as a collector than 2 for $30.

(* - But for the record, know that I firmly believe you are wrong.)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Nicklab on July 28, 2009, 05:42 PM
I'm happy to present a dissenting opinion on this piece.  Especially since I helped break the story (http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/content/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=4951) on this piece.  I think the piece really needs to be seen in person to be appreciated.  It's not just Vader on a woodpile and Luke with a torch.  Hasbro has built in some interactive features with this set, much like they did with last year's SDCC exclusive Holographic Emporer with Darth Vader.

Hasbro made a point of displaying this piece in a shadow box with speakers to show off the features.  You press a button on the pyre base causing it to light up and emit audio of flames crackling (we'll have video of that posted soon at JTA).

Now is this an overly exciting, action driven piece?  No, it's not.  But if we look at the breadth of the Star Wars Saga as conceived by George Lucas, it is the story of Anakin Skywalker.  And this piece commemorates his redeemed, dignified end much like that of many mythological heroes.  It would be geared almost entirely to collectors, most likely as some kind of exclusive.  I cannot see this as a mass market offering.  So by no means do I see this offering taking the place of something with more play value in the main line.  But it would make for a very cool display piece, especially with collectors who have a Vader focus.  A $30 pricepoint would not be that difficult a pill to swallow in the current climate.  Especially when we're seeing prices climb on items like battle packs.

As for any morbid considerations?  Personally I've been against the Funeral Padme figure.  But it has ranked in Hasbro's Fan Choice Polls.  And Hasbro made a point of kidding us all with a possible Funeral Pyre Vader in an SDCC presentation a few years ago only to get some negative backlash for that.  But overall, based on interest beforehand and feedback since it was unveiled at SDCC, I think the interest is there among the collector base for a Funeral Pyre Vader.  And I think the upcoming Fan's Choice Poll is a good way to express that interest.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on July 28, 2009, 06:05 PM
Really, the dissenting view? :)  I seem to be the only person NOT on board with this one here.   That's why I'm so shocked and can't seemingly shut the heck up. :)

I agree Nick, the Fan's Choice poll is a great way to say what we want, but even then, there are so many options that the top winner may not exactly be a huge number these days.  It's not like 1997 when we all scream "WE WANT A SLAVE LEIA!" and that pretty much represented the view of 100,000+ potential customers.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jayson on July 28, 2009, 06:11 PM
For me, I think the theoretical price of $30-$35 is fair when considering the size of the pyre, the incorporated lights and sound, the 2 figures and possibly being offered as a convention/online exclusive. Nick makes a great point about how this piece is a testament to the Skywalker story and should be looked at as such. Obviously, this is not something that has a lot of inherit "play value" but, to me, holds more "nostalgic value" and pays reverence to the Original Original Trilogy and I think many older collectors will/do feel the same way.

I'll be getting one and depending on the presentation, possibly two.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Nicklab on July 28, 2009, 06:16 PM
A dissenting view to yours, Adam.  At least from someone who was reporting from SDCC and saw the piece in person, along with the electronics demo.  Personally I think I presented both the pros and cons of the piece, which is probably the more intellectually honest angle on Funeral Pyre Vader.

I think presenting even the NOTION that this piece would be taking away any kind of mainline product offering is dishonest.  This is not a case of Hasbro asking the collecting community "Should we make the 'Duel on Mustafar' battle pack?" whatsoever.  This piece is much more akin to the Holo Emporer with Vader from last year than almost anything else we've seen in the past 2-3 years.

Would it be pricey?  Yes, compared to other 2-packs it would be relatively pricey.  But I think that given the size of the added electronic accessory this offering is more akin to a three pack than a 2-pack.  And if we're in the $30 ballpark that would bring the average to about $10 per item.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Ryan on July 28, 2009, 06:22 PM
I agree Nick, the Fan's Choice poll is a great way to say what we want, but even then, there are so many options that the top winner may not exactly be a huge number these days.  It's not like 1997 when we all scream "WE WANT A SLAVE LEIA!" and that pretty much represented the view of 100,000+ potential customers.

Nope. Now everyone just asks for every clonetrooper that may have been in the background in one frame of some obsolete comic. ::)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jesse James on July 28, 2009, 07:10 PM
I agree with Nick on arguing the hypotheicals...

I can say that I don't give a poo about all these Padme's we have gotten, and we've gotten a lot.  And yet there's a ton more to go.  Not my cup of tea at all, I really am more interested in Padme in "action" type costumes with super articulation...  My preference.

But I also can't really argue logically that "Padme in Gown A kept me from getting Padme in purple Naboo outfit with super articulation".  Who knows what it replaced, or didn't replace, ultimately.

I think, with a power via a major retailer to reach Hasbro, it would be good to actually push the pricing issue with Hasbro...  That $30's going to possibly dramatically impact how many can be sold, as opposed to a $25 or less pricepoint.

My personal threshold is probably $40...  $30 I think is "fair", but not good.  $25's nice and I'd be pleased (plus shipping, of course).  If it is $40, I'm likely to hold off for a sale.  $30 I'd probably buy immediately.

Again, different strokes for different folks...  Some guys wouldn't want to pay more than $25 or even less.  I don't blame them.  This hobby has become obnoxiously expensive over the last year.  I figure I'll cut back elsewhere to afford this Pyre set though.  I liked it.

Also I agree with Nick that, short of seeing it in person, it's tough to gauge the coolness of it.  The video Nick posted showed the lights nicely though, and I can totally see that as a centerpiece to my Endor shelf, lit up in the dark...  It's an iconic moment, so I like it.  Just as I appreciate the "Trash Compactor" set for what it is (all the OT heroes together in one iconic moment).

Again, I think a lot of this is HOW you collect.  I think the Pyre's better than a WHOLE Turbo Tank, not just a 1/3 of it.  To the contrary though, I like my AT-TE's better as they're good scaled behemoths I've wanted since 2002.  It's how I collect I guess.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Force Guy on July 28, 2009, 07:24 PM
I really like the prospect of adding this piece to my collection, especially if it falls in the $20-$30 range.  In fact, I think Hasbro should consider making a sub-line of "scorched" figure sets, including Padme, Qui-Gon, and Owen/Beru.   
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on July 28, 2009, 08:13 PM
Nope. Now everyone just asks for every clonetrooper that may have been in the background in one frame of some obsolete comic. ::)

Exactly.  There's not much left to do at this stage.  There are only so many unmade Cantina aliens, Rebel Pilots, Imperial Officers, and so on left to do unless you start digging deep to the point where a segment of the fanbase is going to say "I don't know what that is" or "I've already got that/I didn't want it the last time they did that."  Some of this stuff isn't going to appeal to the entire group-- the Mandalorian sets had certainly performed better than I'd expect for characters Hasbro developed mostly from the ground-up.

Personally I think I presented both the pros and cons of the piece, which is probably the more intellectually honest angle on Funeral Pyre Vader.

You basically described what we saw, and I still feel that the market can't/won't support it.  If it were a Sideshow resin item, sure, maybe.  Or if Hasbro could do an ultra-limited piece (by their standards), why not.  

I think presenting even the NOTION that this piece would be taking away any kind of mainline product offering is dishonest.  This is not a case of Hasbro asking the collecting community "Should we make the 'Duel on Mustafar' battle pack?" whatsoever.  This piece is much more akin to the Holo Emporer with Vader from last year than almost anything else we've seen in the past 2-3 years.

I didn't say (or mean) that.  It's an exclusive item, the development of which is done separately from mainline items.  It strikes me as an item that would do better at a mass retailer-- potentially lower price point, try-me feature, core characters-- than as an online or collector's market exclusive.

I agree it's very much like the Holo Emperor with Darth Vader set from last year-- overpriced, underwhelming, a slow seller, and can't sell for its original issue price on eBay.  The "Disturbance in the Force" set is what I thought of when I first saw this piece, and I can tell you, that's one of my least favorite pieces.   I suppose I'm very much in the minority that Hasbro sometimes *not* make everything it announces.  It's OK for some things to be canceled if need be, I know I'll be disappointed if that Camie & Fixer comic pack never comes out, but it's not like it'll make the many toys I do have and really do like any less special.

This set probably is a solid idea better suited to a higher-dollar manufacturer-- Sideshow, Gentle Giant.   I just don't see it being a successful, high-number (as Hasbro doesn't tend to do very limited items) toy thing... but this would probably be about as perfect an ideal adult collectible piece as you could imagine

In fact, I think Hasbro should consider making a sub-line of "scorched" figure sets, including Padme, Qui-Gon, and Owen/Beru.   
.

See, now you're just making fun of me, Padme was never set on fire...
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Nicklab on July 28, 2009, 09:02 PM
This set probably is a solid idea better suited to a higher-dollar manufacturer-- Sideshow, Gentle Giant.   I just don't see it being a successful, high-number (as Hasbro doesn't tend to do very limited items) toy thing... but this would probably be about as perfect an ideal adult collectible piece as you could imagine

Come on now.  I like Sideshow's product a lot, but it's not friendly to a collector on a budget.  Do you know how much the new Darth Vader VS Obi-Wan Kenobi piece is selling for?  $300.  And truth be told, it's not all that big, especially compared to Sideshow's Premium Format pieces which are similarly priced.  And that VS scene would likely be limited to about 2,000 pieces or so.

Hasbro can crank out a greater number of Funeral Pyre Vaders at a much better price.  And I find their approach of taking this to the collectors to be refreshing.  Hasbro seems much more engaged with the collector base now than they were 6 or 7 years ago.  And taking the collecting community's temperature on this item seems to be more of a grass roots approach to line planning, rather than depending on the tastes of retail buyers that may be more fickle.  They can present buyers with a good level of online feedback before they decide to pick up the set.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Rob on July 28, 2009, 09:42 PM
...

Let me put it another way... try to follow the logic:

- I want to buy this item.  
- If you get your way, I won't have that chance.

- You don't want to buy this item.  
- If I get my way, you can still do whatever the hell you want.

In the meantime, you can be the guy arguing against the grain, if that's what you're into.  You seem so concerned with protecting Hasbro, but they're adults, running a pretty big company, and certainly appreciate whatever risk or reward they're about to undertake.  The line isn't going to fall apart if they put this item out for the (seeming) majority of us who want to get it.  Thankfully they're asking for collector reaction, and from what I've read, most of it is positive.


I think presenting even the NOTION that this piece would be taking away any kind of mainline product offering is dishonest...

I didn't say (or mean) that.  It's an exclusive item, the development of which is done separately from mainline items.  It strikes me as an item that would do better at a mass retailer-- potentially lower price point, try-me feature, core characters-- than as an online or collector's market exclusive.


Really?  Because that's pretty much exactly what you said.

I don't want to see duds enter the marketplace, particularly when this item aimed at collectors will likely eat up a slot for another, better item aimed at collectors.  
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jesse James on July 28, 2009, 10:20 PM
It's not meant to sound like a "gang up on Adam" thing either.  It's just you're in the vast minority ont his one it seems, Adam.

But let me throw this at you...  Maybe to reinforce what Rob's saying more than anything, but I think it's a good point...

You want Vlix I'm pretty sure, in some capacity.  I personally think the Droids cartoon is retarded, and beyond Boba Fett, I'm not really interested in much from it.  And really the animated Boba we got I'm pretty content with for animated Fetts.

I, however, wouldn't begrudge you Vlix, who I think would be a dismal figure at retail personally.  If Hasbro's into making Vlix, go for it.  I'll buy one most likely.  If it were overpriced as an exclusive or something, I'd probably pass on it only because I'm getting that way in my old age where if something is overpriced I'm avoiding it till a sale or whatnot (Crimson Empire multi-pack for instance).  But, if it were mixed into the basic figures, in an EU wave, where I could hypothetically argue it's taking the slot of any myriad of EU guys I'd rather get (start with Dark Forces, X-Wing: Alliance, Rogue Squadron, Zahn Trilogy, etc.), I'd buy it...  It's weird, and not my cup of tea, but I'd buy it even though there's a mile long list of things I'd rather have.

I can easily apply this same scenario to comic packs...  I HATE Marvel stuff.  I haven't bought the last several Marvel packs despite the thought to repaint the Mando's in them even, because that + price hikes made me think that's not worth my money going to it.  But I know a couple guys personally who are really into Marvel stuff...  I didn't care for it as a story, so I don't care for it as toys.  I'd prefer Dark Horse stuff get preference out of Hasbro.  I don't begrudge the guys into Marvel getting that Rabbit character though.  It seems like something they'd dig, so more power to them.

And again...  Wilrow Hood.  How many people out there are bitching up a storm on that one?  I wanted him, he got his petition started here by Scott who obviously is the guy who wanted him the most.  There's no "joke" to it.  I actually want my Wilrow and I'm excited I get him this year!  But there are a number of people who would rather we who do want that figure, don't get it, for really no solid reasoning other than they think he'll pegwarm...  These same folks don't bitch about the Cantina aliens that pegwarm, or the Jerjerrods, or the Yarna's, etc.  No real reasonable reasons as to why not, they just choose not to.

These are all similar things...  Hasbro touted the Pyre around, I liked it (along with others, obviously), and I'm geeked to get it.  I liked the Carbon Freeze playset too though.  Sold dismally of course, but it's proudly the centerpiece of my Bespin figures.  If they ever give us a decent Freeze Han with binders and stuff, I'll be geeked beyond belief to add him to the center of the playset.  It's an iconic thing to me.  I'd have paid double for a set twice as big (and I paid full price for it when it came out).  It's something I enjoyed, and while I'm sure many wish it never existed, I'm loving the one I bought.  :)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: P-Siddy on July 28, 2009, 10:27 PM
I'm one of the Padme lovers that Jesse hates.  ;)

I would love to have a funeral pyre Vader, and I like the idea of lights and crackling fire to it, but I'm one of the collectors on a budget (and a critical wife) which at times makes me really have to think whether a set is worth it or not. I'd be happy with the set without the effects, too. I don't necessarily need another Luke to accompany it, but like Jay says, it's an iconic moment, like Luke staring at the Twin Suns on Tatooine... it's moving. I would be happy to have a 'new' Vader on the pyre that's built into it. Just like the funeral Padme, she doesn't need any articulation in my opinion, she laid there with her arms cross on the hover-hearse.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on July 28, 2009, 10:49 PM
Really?  Because that's pretty much exactly what you said.

I don't want to see duds enter the marketplace, particularly when this item aimed at collectors will likely eat up a slot for another, better item aimed at collectors.  

That's funny, I don't see "main line" or "exclusive" anywhere in what I said.  Looks like you saw what you wanted to see. :)  (No worries, I've done the same.)

Re: your point about "protecting Hasbro," keep this in mind: they really do pay attention to what fans say.  And they get burned.  Fans online in ALL hobbies often exaggerate their interest (or lack thereof, especially on these very boards over the years). A few years ago fans on Transformers boards said they would pay $500 (a hypothetical estimate) on a Beast Wars Neo Unicron toy.  Not only WOULDN'T they pay it, but a lot of these people were young fans who probably *couldn't* pay it.   This sort of thing happens a lot.  I don't doubt that many are interested in this piece, but I doubt there are many who aren't already posting on the forums that would shell out for it.  A 95% positive forum approval can still be a false positive-- who wouldn't say yes if Hasbro said "we're totally going to make the Lars Homestead for $60, who wants it?"

I'm usually the one going on about how much I like something in face of others hating on it, so for me, this is a bit of a strange twist of fate.  Back in the day the JD forums were the one place I could always be sure I could find a long string of posts on how much someone dislikes something which I thought was fantastic... I'm kinda surprised to find that this time around, it seems the only hater is me.

Come on now.  I like Sideshow's product a lot, but it's not friendly to a collector on a budget.  Do you know how much the new Darth Vader VS Obi-Wan Kenobi piece is selling for?  $300.  And truth be told, it's not all that big, especially compared to Sideshow's Premium Format pieces which are similarly priced.  And that VS scene would likely be limited to about 2,000 pieces or so.

Hasbro can crank out a greater number of Funeral Pyre Vaders at a much better price.  And I find their approach of taking this to the collectors to be refreshing.  Hasbro seems much more engaged with the collector base now than they were 6 or 7 years ago.  And taking the collecting community's temperature on this item seems to be more of a grass roots approach to line planning, rather than depending on the tastes of retail buyers that may be more fickle.  They can present buyers with a good level of online feedback before they decide to pick up the set.

That's pretty much exactly my point-- this is an item with a smaller appeal.  Have you seen the shrinking edition sizes on Gentle Giant and Sideshow items, and the massive drop-off in interest which caused them?  There's a good reason to go that way.  Success is relative.  If Hasbro sold only 10k of the item, it might be a flop by their standards while 2.5k for Sideshow would be a tremendous hit.

The power of "you can't have this" is one of the greatest marketing tools a collectible company has-- Gentle Giant, Sideshow, and Hasbro used it to great success early on in all their lines.

And look at it this way-- I seem to be one of maybe four people poo-pooing this item on the boards, certainly the most verbose.   I've heard a number of people in person dislike it before I said anything either way, so if the fan interest really truly is as high as may be believed, my complaining about it makes me look wronger than usual and everyone's comments will shine a light on what a great seller it is, right?  This is Hasbro and Lucasfilm we're dealing with.  They don't do grass roots movements, they go forth and [attempt to] profit.

I'm one of the Padme lovers that Jesse hates.  ;)

[SNIP]... Just like the funeral Padme, she doesn't need any articulation in my opinion, she laid there with her arms cross on the hover-hearse.

I'd be interested in that, even if it'd be a stranger item.  At least she'd have a unique outfit and not be an existing figure.

[SNIP]
You want Vlix I'm pretty sure, in some capacity.  I personally think the Droids cartoon is retarded, and beyond Boba Fett, I'm not really interested in much from it.

Vlix is my Waterloo.  I know it's a lost cause, there's no reason to do one up except for the old-timey Kenner collectors who really dig the gangsters of the early Empire and unproduced toys-- like Gargan was.   It's like some people want Ackmeena, or Tikkes, or whatever.   It's not just *a* figure that I'd like to see, it's *the* figure I'd like to see.  I'm not going to argue it's a huge hit, it's got limited appeal and would probably have to be part of a multi-pack with a much more appealing product to work.   Once you get past the fact he's not from a movie, I'd say the appeal is similar to that of Willrow Hood, a key difference being that Vlix is something of a legendary toy while Hood is something of a shining piece of fan lore.  And both are equally obscure, but depending on who you ask and when, either could be more recognizable.  They're doing ICMG for us-- I think specifically for JediDefender, really-- and that's no small victory, particularly when many of the petitions over the years didn't even use the character name in the graphics.

And I agree, I'd go bonkers for a good Freeze Han too-- I never get why every Carbonite Han Solo is based on the melting scene and not the freezing process.  I'd totally support that... and I'm right there with you on a bigger, better Carbonite playset.  I like the POTJ one, but yeah, a big one would be something else wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: evenflow on July 28, 2009, 10:52 PM
I'm late to the argument but I want this set and Vlix  ;D Does that solve it all?  ;) I would pay 40.00 for the set but thats becuase i want it and have always thought the scene is the movie was extremely powerful. 30.00 would be fair i think.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jesse James on July 28, 2009, 11:01 PM
The thing though I was getting at Adam, was that I want YOU to have your Vlix...  Not because I don't care really, but because you want it.  Like Scott petitioned for Wilrow Hood and got him.  I wanted Scott to get him, and I'd totally buy Vlix unless he were expensive...  I don't see why he couldn't work as part of an EU line-up.  Look at the EU line-up we're getting afterall.

The Phase 1 Darktrooper?  A figure from a DOS game?  Hardly what I'd call up and coming media to base it off of.  I see no reason a Vlix won't happen, based on that kind of figure alone.

The point I'm making though is, even if a pegwarmer, I'm for him if there's people that honestly would like a modern one. 

I look at Funeral Pyre Vader though, as something iconic, and for the old fans.  Something more than a handful want.  I don't think there's an overwhelming number of kids saying they'd pay anything for it, and I don't think the fans saying they want it will pass on it.  Could it wind up being too much and turning people off?  Some I'm sure, but for me I'm willing to see if Hasbro can come in at a reasonable price on it.  I wish that's something they'd try to do more often, actually.  I won't plunk just any kind of cash on it, I have a life outside of here that requires at least 3/4 of my income to keep going...  But I'm open to this being $30 + shipping for sure.  I'd rather have it on my shelf, than not have it.  That's for sure.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jayson on July 28, 2009, 11:11 PM
That's funny, I don't see "main line" or "exclusive" anywhere in what I said.  Looks like you saw what you wanted to see.   (No worries, I've done the same.)

In the sentence that follows you speak directly to "other" exclusives, so it can be inferred that the Pyre set was included in the "other" classification.

A 95% positive forum approval can still be a false positive-- who wouldn't say yes if Hasbro said "we're totally going to make the Lars Homestead for $60, who wants it?"

Here we are being given the chance to see the potential product before plans to bring it to market have been settled. With the Lars set is was more like 'here you go, buy this ****".

That's pretty much exactly my point-- this is an item with a smaller appeal.  Have you seen the shrinking edition sizes on Gentle Giant and Sideshow items, and the massive drop-off in interest which caused them?

Probably due to the marked increase in prices more than collector interest.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Sprry75 on July 28, 2009, 11:17 PM
I want one to come out that has real fire so I can burn through these thirteen or fourteen extra Darth Vaders I've got lying around.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: ruiner on July 28, 2009, 11:55 PM
 :)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: CorranHorn on July 29, 2009, 12:01 AM
The Phase 1 Darktrooper?  A figure from a DOS game?  Hardly what I'd call up and coming media to base it off of.  I see no reason a Vlix won't happen, based on that kind of figure alone.

DOS!
That's funny, I don't see "main line" or "exclusive" anywhere in what I said.  Looks like you saw what you wanted to see.   (No worries, I've done the same.)

In the sentence that follows you speak directly to "other" exclusives, so it can be inferred that the Pyre set was included in the "other" classification.

A 95% positive forum approval can still be a false positive-- who wouldn't say yes if Hasbro said "we're totally going to make the Lars Homestead for $60, who wants it?"

Here we are being given the chance to see the potential product before plans to bring it to market have been settled. With the Lars set is was more like 'here you go, buy this ****".

That's pretty much exactly my point-- this is an item with a smaller appeal.  Have you seen the shrinking edition sizes on Gentle Giant and Sideshow items, and the massive drop-off in interest which caused them?

Probably due to the marked increase in prices more than collector interest.

Doesn't pricing directly influence the collector interest? I've not purchased the Lars Homestead set - even though I'd really like to have it, I can't justify the $50 (now $40 thanks to clearance) price tag for an item that is essentially $25-$30 worth of toys. Now this Funeral Pyre set looks very interesting to me and I agree with Jesse that it would make a neat centerpiece to an Endor display, but ithis too is maybe at most a $25-$30 item. If it goes beyond that price I'll definitely pass on it and it sounds like many people here would as well. So the price is clearly determining whether or not people will buy the item even if they are thrilled to see the item get developed in the first place.

I also think, along the idea that Adam posted, that this item would better be suited to sell at a $30+ price point if there was some sort of promotion behind it such as an anniversary for ROTJ (last year's 25th anniversary would have been perfect) or some arbitrary 2000th, 2500th, 3000th, etc, figure. As this doesn't have the mainline appeal to get interest from all the brick and mortars, I see this being an exclusive as others have mentioned, in which case Hasbro would make it in their best interest to have a good control of how many units are produced so that this not meet the fate of other interesting collector only exclusives such as the Lars Homestead, Disturbance in the Force, etc...
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jesse James on July 29, 2009, 12:05 AM
You missed the "Extra 20% off clearance" deal Jason.  Should've got the Lars set then.  That's when I nabbed it, and it's not worth every penny. :)  But it's not painful at $30-ish.  I broke it down by piece, basically, and was internally happy enough to get it at that price.

It's a dome...  a plastic dome.

It's unimpressive.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Nicklab on July 29, 2009, 12:55 AM
Here's the video (http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/swexperience/sdcc09/hasbro-pyre.html) so you can get a feel for the light and sound effects.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Pete_Fett on July 29, 2009, 08:02 AM
Well, I'm one of those rare collectors who would buy this regardless of price, so while I hope it's in the $30 - $35 price range, I'm excited to see this and would gladly add it to my collection.

I am aware that I'm not a typical collector so I definitely see everyone's point.

I just hope that this piece does well since a failure on a piece like this would prevent a Funeral Procession Padme from ever being made - which is something else I would one day like to add to my collection.

A lot of people are pointing at the Lars homestead set as a great example of an Epic Fail on the part of Hasbro. I would tend to agree. But ask yourself this: If the Owen and Beru figures were brand new, sculpted and articulated by today's standards, does the set still suck? Perhaps, but to me a change like that would have made the set a million times better.

I think Hasbro needs to realize that sets fail sometimes because of price, but they also fail because of decisions made during the development process. I'm sure the idea of new Owen and Beru figures was bounced around during the development of the Lars Homestead set, just as I'm sure they were nixed so as to maximize the profit margin on the set. But we all see how far that got them...
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: ruiner on July 29, 2009, 09:39 AM
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/1108/horse.gif)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darth_Anton on July 29, 2009, 11:21 AM
My head is going to explode...

I'm going to buy it because it's a cool, bordering on iconic, scene specific set up. Might even make a nice shelf display piece. If it doesn't get made, I won't cry.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: GrandMoffNick on July 29, 2009, 11:23 AM
My head is going to explode...

I'm going to buy it because it's a cool, bordering on iconic, scene specific set up. Might even make a nice shelf display piece. If it doesn't get made, I won't cry.

Beautifully stated.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on July 29, 2009, 01:10 PM
Well, I'm one of those rare collectors who would buy this regardless of price, so while I hope it's in the $30 - $35 price range, I'm excited to see this and would gladly add it to my collection.

I am aware that I'm not a typical collector so I definitely see everyone's point.

I fall in that category too. It's OTC so I will support it regardless of price. I love it but would like sound in there. Play the instrumental score from the movie, it will help strike the mood which will make this piece so much more awesome!
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Brian on July 29, 2009, 01:15 PM
As others have said here, I'm sort of a sucker for anything from the Original movies.  I'd pick this up too, if released, hopefully for $30 or less.  It wasn't the coolest thing I saw in the SDCC coverage, but I still liked it.  I guess I'm just happy to see anything OT these days too (although the figure waves have been much better this year compared to the last couple).  Like others have said, I'll get it if/when it is released - but if for some reason it isn't, it wouldn't be the end of the world either.  I'd be more upset if they showed us a real spiffy all-new Jabba with dais/etc., and said "should we make it?" or "there isn't enough collector support for this".
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on July 29, 2009, 01:36 PM
I love how they ask us "should we make this" when this one is a no brainer, if they made the Holo emp Head why not this? (Make it a HTS exclusive.) But they have no problem putting a former $30 vehicle out for $80.00...with nothing new about it other than deco.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: CorranHorn on July 29, 2009, 11:54 PM
You missed the "Extra 20% off clearance" deal Jason.  Should've got the Lars set then.  That's when I nabbed it, and it's not worth every penny. :)  But it's not painful at $30-ish.  I broke it down by piece, basically, and was internally happy enough to get it at that price.

It's a dome...  a plastic dome.

It's unimpressive.

Apparently so did TRU around me, they're still $40 here :( No worries, i've gotten to the point where I will live without the set, not the end of the world. And that's pretty much my point from my previous response - I would have been all over the set at a more reasonable price (for what was provided), instead it was overpriced (in my opinion) and I've decided to live without it.

Pete - in response to your question regarding if Owen and Beru were new figures, had that been the case the price breakdown would have been relatively acceptable. The sad fact is that Owen and Beru can be had for a buck or two on the secondary market and are figures most collectors already have - so putting these POTF2 leftovers in a set and then marking up the price so much just puts a negative spin to the whole set. That's what did it in for me and I'm sure many others. Oh well, what's done is done, maybe some day I'll be able to get the dome on it's own for a few bucks, ya never know...
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on July 30, 2009, 02:25 AM
I love how they ask us "should we make this" when this one is a no brainer, if they made the Holo emp Head why not this? (Make it a HTS exclusive.) But they have no problem putting a former $30 vehicle out for $80.00...with nothing new about it other than deco.

HTS sales aren't really all that good, as evidenced by the DTC line of G.I. Joe figures in (if memory serves) 2006.  It tanked, even with support of additional online retailers and, eventually, Toys "R" Us.  Hasbro got burned good, so this avenue is closed (or so say all their various boy action toy brand managers as of late.)

(And before you bring up Matty Collector, because I would, their goals are very different than those of Hasbro.)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Daigo-Bah on July 30, 2009, 12:50 PM
I collect 100% OT, and am usually thrilled for anything OT, but I have to admit I could take this or not.  I've never been a big fan of flame or blast effects.  I guess if it came to a vote, I'd not participate.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Scott on July 30, 2009, 01:56 PM
I'd like the concept better if it contained the fire crackling and the Williams music blaring
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on July 30, 2009, 05:59 PM
I love how they ask us "should we make this" when this one is a no brainer, if they made the Holo emp Head why not this? (Make it a HTS exclusive.) But they have no problem putting a former $30 vehicle out for $80.00...with nothing new about it other than deco.

HTS sales aren't really all that good, as evidenced by the DTC line of G.I. Joe figures in (if memory serves) 2006.  It tanked, even with support of additional online retailers and, eventually, Toys "R" Us.  Hasbro got burned good, so this avenue is closed (or so say all their various boy action toy brand managers as of late.)

(And before you bring up Matty Collector, because I would, their goals are very different than those of Hasbro.)

I agree with your assessment and I would not bring up Mattel (I worked there for 5 years so I know their practices well.) HTS profit margins are insane, there is no retailer middleman so that balances out the sales overall and makes it very profitable for their mass product line. I do not think Joe was the best example or idea because they invested in a lot of tooling that could not pay for itself in the long run, plus Joe was really dead at that time which did not help either. I would also venture to say the figures sucked too when you see what they are now.

If they were willing to sell it through HTS they could set up a presell for this item. Once enough orders are placed and they know they can make it with a profit your credit card is then charged. They could proceed to tooling & ship it when it's made 8-10 months later. (If they were really buttoned up, locked down costing and secured a factory they really could ship this in 6 months, difficult to do but not impossible.)
They would not have to worry about reaching out to fans to gauge if we want this made because they would clearly be able to gauge the presales. all they have to do is spread the PR about the item/sale date/details.

I know I would sign up without question for at least 2. I can see this as a Diamond or EE Exclusive but I do not see Target, Wal-Mart, TRU doing this. As someone posted earlier, the fact that this is a cremation toy. It will make this harder to fly with parents but more importantly will this be desired by kids. I do not think so. They would enjoy a ROTS Anakin with melt away skin/body part but not dead Darth Vader roasting with molded on flames. This is the ultimate in direct to collector type of item.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Scott on July 30, 2009, 06:43 PM
I can see this as a Diamond or EE Exclusive
Based on the opinions of someone in this thread...I don't see the latter happening :-*
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on July 30, 2009, 09:20 PM
I agree with your assessment and I would not bring up Mattel (I worked there for 5 years so I know their practices well.) HTS profit margins are insane, there is no retailer middleman so that balances out the sales overall and makes it very profitable for their mass product line. I do not think Joe was the best example or idea because they invested in a lot of tooling that could not pay for itself in the long run, plus Joe was really dead at that time which did not help either. I would also venture to say the figures sucked too when you see what they are now.

I don't think anyone would disagree that a toy in 2009 is better than the toy of 2006.  Not much of a stretch, particularly given the complete redesign in how figures were constructed.   Those vehicles in that line were some of Hasbro's finest-- I LOVE that HISS Tank that they did, it's really great-- and the items were priced well with collector-friendly packaging which, obviously, is in line with what we had in the 25th Anniversary line from purely stylistic purposes.  The packaging was gorgeous and the figures were often directly in line with what fans asked.  You want a Crimson Guard?  Here ya go.  Spirit?  Enjoy.  More comic packs?  Why, here they are.   Still, word from the big H was that this experiment was a disappointment-- and as I said, with the support of additional online and brick-and-mortar retail, it *still* was considered a disappointment.  Hasbro feels that they're generally best served selling a few items in big numbers.

Hasbro also flat out said they aren't going to do more HTS DTC exclusives.  As such, I'm going to believe them when they say that isn't going to happen.  Hasbro's last Internet-exclusive direct-to-consumer Star Wars piece was, what, like 1998 with Muftak & Kabe?

If they were willing to sell it through HTS they could set up a presell for this item. Once enough orders are placed and they know they can make it with a profit your credit card is then charged. They could proceed to tooling & ship it when it's made 8-10 months later. (If they were really buttoned up, locked down costing and secured a factory they really could ship this in 6 months, difficult to do but not impossible.)
<snip>

It goes both ways.  A number of products get canceled after seeing what the real-world interest goes, I can point to the 12-inch action figures for The Big Lebowski as one example where I had personal involvement.  Diamond Select had quite a few things that never quite made it to shelves over the years, too, and even Hasbro had a few items (PowerSpark, Sketto, a few odds and ends) in Star Wars that just didn't have what it took to make it out of the gate after interest was measured.

I'm not saying this one won't-- but generally Hasbro doesn't flinch if they have a good idea on their hands.  Asking fans what they think is pretty out of character, unless it's a fan's choice poll.  Giving us the chance to vote with our dollars?  If they can handle it logistically (I'd worry that the time between the pre-order and delivery might be too great), it'd be a wonderful way to test the waters with products needing special attention.

I know I would sign up without question for at least 2. I can see this as a Diamond or EE Exclusive but I do not see Target, Wal-Mart, TRU doing this. As someone posted earlier, the fact that this is a cremation toy. It will make this harder to fly with parents but more importantly will this be desired by kids. I do not think so. They would enjoy a ROTS Anakin with melt away skin/body part but not dead Darth Vader roasting with molded on flames. This is the ultimate in direct to collector type of item.

I can't say I agree with you on the "where," but I don't think the theme of the set is much of an issue.   In Star Wars we've had figures of slave girls, virtually naked Twi'lek clubber girls, drunk aliens, a drug dealer with actual drugs included, figures which can be beheaded (Spirit Vader, Tusken, Jango), numerous dismemberments, a Grievous which explodes and fires out guts, another Grievous with flames SHOOTING OUT OF HIS EYES sold at Target... death or adult themes (edit: don't) make mass-market buyers squirm these days.  If anything, there's plenty of evidence that they're embracing it.

The DTC thing, well, we'll agree to disagree I suppose.  I believe Hasbro when they say they won't do it.  They're welcome to change their minds, or more likely, find another clever way to get this out (shared exclusive, con exclusive, stealth Wal-Mart exclusive) if they're so inclined.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Nicklab on August 8, 2009, 09:23 PM
So what praytell is with your crusade across the collecting community against this offering Adam?  I've seen you arguing vociferously against Funeral Pyre Vader on at least a couple of forums.  But surprisingly not at the site where you're on staff. 

Obviously given your position, this will not be something that Entertainment Earth will pick up.  But why are you campaigning so hard to convince other collectors that they shouldn't back the Funeral Pyre Vader idea?  Is it really that much of an affront to Star Wars collecting?  One of your fellow GH staffers clearly disagrees with you (http://www.galacticblogger.com/blogger/2006/07/19/death-at-ones-blog/).
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Rob on August 8, 2009, 11:27 PM
(http://justgrits.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/grinch_santa.jpg)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on August 10, 2009, 05:03 AM
So what praytell is with your crusade across the collecting community against this offering Adam?  I've seen you arguing vociferously against Funeral Pyre Vader on at least a couple of forums.  But surprisingly not at the site where you're on staff. 

Thanks for taking interest in my activities!

Obviously given your position, this will not be something that Entertainment Earth will pick up.  But why are you campaigning so hard to convince other collectors that they shouldn't back the Funeral Pyre Vader idea?  Is it really that much of an affront to Star Wars collecting?  One of your fellow GH staffers clearly disagrees with you (http://www.galacticblogger.com/blogger/2006/07/19/death-at-ones-blog/).

Good for him.  He's welcome to his opinion.

If everybody really likes this piece, that's exactly what Hasbro needs to hear-- if I end up being the lone crazy person who honestly does not believe fans will throw down the cash if push comes to shove, but everyone else says this is the most awesome item they could possibly release, isn't it great that I caused so many fans to express just how interested they are in purchasing this item?  If my extreme distaste only causes more people to say they want this piece, aren't I helping you get what you want? 

You absolutely should disagree with me if you like this piece, that's exactly what Hasbro needs to hear in order for an item like this to get produced-- that you would buy it, as it is, at the prices being projected, with no additional changes.

(And if I'm totally out of line, this comes out and is a huge hit at a standard exclusive edition size and not as a super-limited item, I'll be the first to admit I was wronger than wrong.)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: jedi_master_sal on August 10, 2009, 02:02 PM
...You absolutely should disagree with me if you like this piece, that's exactly what Hasbro needs to hear in order for an item like this to get produced-- that you would buy it, as it is, at the prices being projected, with no additional changes.

(And if I'm totally out of line, this comes out and is a huge hit at a standard exclusive edition size and not as a super-limited item, I'll be the first to admit I was wronger than wrong.)

No additional changes? Are they/you serious? Of course there will be changes. We are going to balk at that price for sure. Hasbro will defend it "due to the added electronics," sculpt will almost certainly change.

I'm for this set, but not at a high cost. It is indeed because I have many Lukes and Vaders that I don't want to pay a premium for the set. I think at no more than $20, this would be a nice set to have. Using even older molds in the set would be fine I'd say. It would cut down costs and for the most part, there really isn't a need to have SA figs of both, since they will in most likelyhood just be kept with the set, be that MIB or displayed loose.

Just as the Lar's Homestead tanked because it was WAY too much in price, this set will be doomed to fail if Hasbro doesn't get it to market at a fair price.

Heck, if we can get the Yavin set with three figures and a cart for around $25, then this set of two figures, a stack of plastic molded logs and a miniscule amount of electronics should go for no more than $20.

I'm betting for many of those who will display this loose, they'll look to either trade/sell/giveaway the Luke/Vader figures.

So again for the record, I'm for this set coming out, but at a fair price of $20.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Nicklab on August 10, 2009, 02:44 PM
Personally, I don't see a lot of difference between this set and the DISTURBANCE IN THE FORCE exclusive.  You've basically got one poseable figure, and another that's inextricably linked to a light and sound effects base.  Where were the objections to that particular SDCC exclusive?
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on August 10, 2009, 03:34 PM
No additional changes? Are they/you serious? Of course there will be changes. We are going to balk at that price for sure. Hasbro will defend it "due to the added electronics," sculpt will almost certainly change.

Yes-- this is a concept that was basically finished.  Obviously they need to finish up the wiring, but this wasn't a simple first-stage mock-up-- this is what they want to sell.

<snip>
So again for the record, I'm for this set coming out, but at a fair price of $20.

(Colbert voice)  I'll put you down for "no.".

Personally, I don't see a lot of difference between this set and the DISTURBANCE IN THE FORCE exclusive.  You've basically got one poseable figure, and another that's inextricably linked to a light and sound effects base.  Where were the objections to that particular SDCC exclusive?

Nobody asked "Should we do this?" before.  (I didn't care for the set because of the lack of Vader changes and the lack of foot peg on the base, but the Emperor bust figure thing was pretty nicely done and qualifies as "new figure" in my book.)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on August 10, 2009, 03:58 PM
Personally, I don't see a lot of difference between this set and the DISTURBANCE IN THE FORCE exclusive.  You've basically got one poseable figure, and another that's inextricably linked to a light and sound effects base.  Where were the objections to that particular SDCC exclusive?

I have to concur 100% with Nicklab. I do not see a difference either with the Disturbance of the Force set. I do not even understand the skittishness of Hasbro on this one. They have dumped far more controversial crap on us that this set. The $65-$80 Imperial Arc, UBP Sarlacc Pitt, Pirate Tie & CE Trainees (which were duds from the start) to name a few. While yes, there is a tooling/manufacturing risk, it's not a big one when you actually compare it to other products. It's a $25-$30 item max, so it's not like a $100-$150 Sailbarge (That I would happily pay for) that would require massive tooling to make.

There are very few items I would say are a slam dunk but this is one of them. This would outsell the Pirate Tie, Power Ranger 90's EU Garbage, $17 DF sets and yes even the somewhat cool Joker Squad. It would easily out sell the Disturbance in the Force set. Will this appeal to the mass market, perhaps not but to most of the collectors that lurk on the boards it does. I understand the niche nature of the item but it's no where near as obscure as some of the other stuff mentioned.

I really do not get the hesitation or disdain. I think big picture, if we support this we may get crispy Jawas, Moisture Farmers and possibly more mainstream scenes like a Bespin Dining Table. We supported the BMF, AT-TE and we got the Turbo Tank. If we support that lets see what we get next. We supported the fans choice sans Yarna and we got the the ICMG (Thanks Scott).

I for one really want this item and would like more pieces like this. I have no problem paying $40 if the sound effects/music are well done and if it had to be limited. Maybe I am a rare kind of guy but I would also pay big bucks for high quality environments.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: jedi_master_sal on August 10, 2009, 04:23 PM
<snip>
So again for the record, I'm for this set coming out, but at a fair price of $20.

(Colbert voice)  I'll put you down for "no.".

Adam, and I'll be as nice here as I can be, DON'T put words in my mouth or in this case text.

Mine is a YES vote, but with that exception. As said, Hasbro is out of their minds if they think people are going to throng for this at a higher price. That one factor alone makes or breaks a lot of toys nowadays. Just look at the Turbo Tank.
If for one campaigned for that vehicle to come out, yet I've seen and passed on it. I think the price is way to high for what we're getting for it. My opinion, but it's as valid as anyone else's.

I'll say again, mine is a yes vote. I'd rather this be out there for the masses, even if it means Hasbro's ridiculous pricepoint. Some WILL buy it at that price. I'm not one of them, but I would buy it at clearance. So I DO want this made.

And I absolutely HATE Colbert...vile obnoxious twit that he is. He's getting something named for him on the next shuttle or space station. Some have joked the toilet. I think that's quite appropriate since all that comes out of him is crap.



Yeah, I've had a bad day, sorry folks, but I needed to vent it off a little.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on August 10, 2009, 04:33 PM
And I absolutely HATE Colbert...vile obnoxious twit that he is. He's getting something named for him on the next shuttle or space station. Some have joked the toilet. I think that's quite appropriate since all that comes out of him is crap.

Yeah, I've had a bad day, sorry folks, but I needed to vent it off a little.

Sal vent all you need to, Colbert is an overrated blowhard. I agree.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Carpeteria3000 on August 10, 2009, 05:24 PM
Keep it in the Pit, fellas.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on August 10, 2009, 05:41 PM
Keep it in the Pit, fellas.

Hey Fella, where did the Sarlacc Pit go? You cannot find it, it was removed and tucked away somewhere in the bowels of the site.

How about you stay in the Pit, we were commenting on the comments that were made/quoted. If it turned into 50 straight posts about Colbert being a blowhard or quoting him in every post, sure it would belong there. Not everything needs to be viewed solely from a political eye as you see it. I think O'Reily is a blowhard too and he leans right but Adam did not quote him for us to comment on. Sal has a right to vent I have a right to agree with him.

Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Greg on August 10, 2009, 05:55 PM
I really do not get the hesitation or disdain. I think big picture, if we support this we may get crispy Jawas, Moisture Farmers and possibly more mainstream scenes like a Bespin Dining Table. We supported the BMF, AT-TE and we got the Turbo Tank. If we support that lets see what we get next. We supported the fans choice sans Yarna and we got the the ICMG (Thanks Scott).


Not trying to stray off topic, but I think the major factors in the large vehicle releases were the AT-AT and Imperial Shuttle re-releases of 2006. I think the success of those two really got Hasbro thinking about new vehicles. Hell, Toys R Us sold thru two fairly large shipments of AT-ATs that collectors deemed overpriced.

I'd lump this set more in the category of the Homestead and Sarlaac Pit, and those seemed to have backfired for Hasbro. I'd prefer this item to not see the light of day, as it is more of a boring sculpture than an action figure.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on August 10, 2009, 06:12 PM
Adam, and I'll be as nice here as I can be, DON'T put words in my mouth or in this case text.

I'm sorry I misread your "I'm for this set coming out, but at a fair price of $20." as "I don't want that item at that parameters that Hasbro has established."  My fault entirely. 

My point was that this is less a "yes with a but" issue as it is a "yes or no" issue.  Do you like what you see as it is enough to buy it?  I understand that at another price or with changes made to it your opinion might change, but that's not quite what I'm talking about here.  Sure, if it was $20, that'd be nice.  But it's pretty unlikely.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: EpicGon on August 10, 2009, 08:11 PM
Cool toy, no worries Hasbro make it!

I hope this funeral pyre Luke comes with lighsabaer and Vader would be a repack of TLC bd Vader.

We need a Luke from Throne room duel with black shirt, becuase this 2009 from Hasbro has the grey flap. Of course IŽll buy both variants.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jabba the Slug on August 11, 2009, 01:13 AM
Can't say I'm that overjoyed. Although a smart concept, it's another Luke and Vader (honestly!). It'll be worth an appropriate price, but at Comic-Con it was reported to be aiming for $44-48.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Rob on August 11, 2009, 01:16 AM
Can't say I'm that overjoyed. Although a smart concept, it's another Luke and Vader (honestly!). It'll be worth an appropriate price, but at Comic-Con it was reported to be aiming for $44-48.

No one would buy it for $45 and Hasbro certainly knows that. 

$30 - $35 is the most that this would probably move at.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Carpeteria3000 on August 11, 2009, 09:53 AM
Keep it in the Pit, fellas.

Hey Fella, where did the Sarlacc Pit go? You cannot find it, it was removed and tucked away somewhere in the bowels of the site.

How about you stay in the Pit, we were commenting on the comments that were made/quoted. If it turned into 50 straight posts about Colbert being a blowhard or quoting him in every post, sure it would belong there. Not everything needs to be viewed solely from a political eye as you see it. I think O'Reily is a blowhard too and he leans right but Adam did not quote him for us to comment on. Sal has a right to vent I have a right to agree with him.



The Pit became a private section that you had a certain timeframe thread to post in in order to stay involved. I'm sure if you PM's a mod you could go back if you wanted to, but that was a few months ago. So maybe YOU can't find it, but it's not gone.

I could care less if you guys want to start politicizing toy threads - have a blast. Just trying to give a helpful warning, but if you want to be an ass, be my guest.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darth_Anton on August 11, 2009, 11:13 AM
Keep it in the Pit, fellas.

Hey Fella, where did the Sarlacc Pit go? You cannot find it, it was removed and tucked away somewhere in the bowels of the site.



The Pit became a private section that you had a certain timeframe thread to post in in order to stay involved. I'm sure if you PM's a mod you could go back if you wanted to, but that was a few months ago. So maybe YOU can't find it, but it's not gone.


That explains it. Interesting.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: iFett on August 11, 2009, 12:30 PM
I could care less if you guys want to start politicizing toy threads - have a blast.

Not that anyone would care, but I'd leave this site in a heartbeat if this ever happened.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Carpeteria3000 on August 11, 2009, 02:09 PM
My point was that I don't think they'd last long around here if they did.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: CHEWIE on August 11, 2009, 02:26 PM
I am almost certain that I wouldn't even pay $10 for this set if it comes out.  I just don't like it.  I didn't get the Disturbance set either... neither set seems well executed for the way I like to display my collection.

If they make it, fine those who want it can add it to their collections.  I just don't find it that exciting myself... it's really the design that I don't care for more than the actual idea... maybe if the Luke was 100% new sculpt and rocked the house, and they threw in a tree or something to add to the environment appeal (of course that won't happen) I'd be more interested.

I'm guessing they don't sense that this is a sure fire hit, otherwise they wouldn't be asking our opinion.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on August 11, 2009, 05:36 PM
The Pit became a private section that you had a certain timeframe thread to post in in order to stay involved. I'm sure if you PM's a mod you could go back if you wanted to, but that was a few months ago. So maybe YOU can't find it, but it's not gone.

I could care less if you guys want to start politicizing toy threads - have a blast. Just trying to give a helpful warning, but if you want to be an ass, be my guest.

No one was politicizing anything but you. You read into the posts way too much and I found it very annoying because everything nowadays comes down to divisive politics, can we no longer not like someone anymore just because? I understand thread rules but there was nothing offensive or inflaming. Look at what people say about Hasbro in some of the threads, it gets nasty sometimes. I am glad the Pitt is hidden away I rather stay away. BTW, Thank you for letting me know where it is.

There was nothing that got out of hand. No offense, but you view everything through a political lense so you look for it and it's easy to shape things more than what it is. Just because we think Colbert is a blowhard does not make it a political thread. Adam quoted Colbert, I agreed with Sal about his assessment and it was done. If it was a continuation in 10 consecutive posts I would wholeheartedly agree with you. But c'mon relax not everything is meant on a political level.

I am almost certain that I wouldn't even pay $10 for this set if it comes out.  I just don't like it.  I didn't get the Disturbance set either... neither set seems well executed for the way I like to display my collection.

If they make it, fine those who want it can add it to their collections.  I just don't find it that exciting myself... it's really the design that I don't care for more than the actual idea... maybe if the Luke was 100% new sculpt and rocked the house, and they threw in a tree or something to add to the environment appeal (of course that won't happen) I'd be more interested.

I'm guessing they don't sense that this is a sure fire hit, otherwise they wouldn't be asking our opinion.

Wow, I really thought you of all people would be a shoe in for this set. Disturbance in the Force was actually very nice in terms of lighting effect and the speaker clarity. While it's more of a novelty the $15 price point was very reasonable. If this was $20 I have to say I am surprised the hardcore fans would not be into it. Pieces like these open the doors to other niche pieces.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Rob on August 11, 2009, 06:59 PM
Get a room guys. 

And just let it go.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Carpeteria3000 on August 11, 2009, 09:17 PM
No one was politicizing anything but you. You read into the posts way too much and I found it very annoying because everything nowadays comes down to divisive politics, can we no longer not like someone anymore just because? I understand thread rules but there was nothing offensive or inflaming. Look at what people say about Hasbro in some of the threads, it gets nasty sometimes. I am glad the Pitt is hidden away I rather stay away. BTW, Thank you for letting me know where it is.

There was nothing that got out of hand. No offense, but you view everything through a political lense so you look for it and it's easy to shape things more than what it is. Just because we think Colbert is a blowhard does not make it a political thread. Adam quoted Colbert, I agreed with Sal about his assessment and it was done. If it was a continuation in 10 consecutive posts I would wholeheartedly agree with you. But c'mon relax not everything is meant on a political level.

Ok, dude, chill out.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jesse James on August 11, 2009, 10:23 PM
I'll reitterate what Rob just said...  Not in here.  Take it to the Pit.

And for the record, Colbert, while a comedic personality, is politically charged too, so commenting on him in a toy thread is not appropriate at all from anyone...  So that's also not acceptable.  Kindly just keep it to the Pit...  I don't care if you even start a thread about it there. :)  Nothing more of it after my post here though, would be appreciated.

As far as Pyre Vader w/Luke goes, and pricing...

$45, seriously?   I don't bite on that.  What was the cost of the floating Emporor head?  I paid full price for him and actually really am glad I got that.  It's one of my favs on the Impy shelf.  I don't think Hasbro would do this for $45, especially since they're clearly only tooling the pyre it appears (unless they tweak his right arm to not have a hand).  I could be wrong on that of course, I just paid $17 each for a whole bunch of rehash with little new to it.

As far as wanting a tree...  CHEWIE, I love some of your ideas, but I think you're huffing paint if you think getting a tree would be a good accessory. ;D  Can't you just put the two logs from the Endor UBP up on their ends?  Instant trees!  Seriously though, a big tree is about as far down on the list of big background scenery I'd like to have, as it can get.  The pyre Vader's lying on burning because his Son is saying goodbye...  That seems slightly more iconic and a "center piece" type deal.  That's what I'd be looking for, for these "deluxe accessory" type sets, which let's face it, that's what we're basically looking at.  A very deluxe accessory to a figure.  One could argue that's sort of what the Yavin IV battlepack was.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: CHEWIE on August 12, 2009, 01:05 AM
Well, I'm into dioramas as you probably know Jesse, and Endor is full of... TREES.  But I know that Hasbro would not do a good job with trees, the UBP logs are about the cheapest looking plastic I have ever seen them use; so no thanks to a tree by Hasbro. 

Like I said of course it's not going to happen, so I was just throwing out an idea as to what I think would make it look more appealing to me at the price that's been floating around.  But again, realism in wood work is not Hasbro's strong suit anyway. 

And the Disturbance set didn't do it for me because I didn't like how the Palpatine base attached to the other section; I saw one in person that a friend has and I am glad I passed.  If the Palpatine head had been a free standing section, I would have gotten it in a heartbeat but that attachment section on the front of it kills it for me.  I guess I am spoiled by the things that Owen makes still, though I only have one project in the works with him now... and ironically, it's a big TREE playset for Wookiees.   :D

Like I said though, I think the idea of this set is fine, I just thought the mockup they showed looked rather weak. 
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jabba the Slug on August 12, 2009, 01:24 PM
Ahh, that's good to know! This is an interesting "Battlepack". Will be nice to see some close-ups and find out. I know a lot of people have wanted this Vader. And with this pyre, can we expect a Qui-Gon one to follow?

Haha, doing a Qui-Gon funeral pyre would be innapropriate for children, and as such, some parents would feel awkward buying it. :-[ But think about it. The Darth Vader pyre is the essentially burning of his armor, since he passed on to the spiritual plane (if Hasbro makes this, Vader better not have a removable helmet. There's no body in there, it's just his armor and cybernetic bits that Luke burns). Making a Qui-Gon set would be somewhat morbid, since it's the ACTUAL burning of his body. Making a Qui-Gon-on-fire set to sell to kids and collectors would be weird  >:D
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jayson on August 12, 2009, 01:36 PM
I've been under the impression that Luke did burn Vader/Anakin's physical body as we didn't see him pass on or "disappear" into the force as Obi-Wan and Yoda did. And, if Hasbro were to do it right, Vader shouldn't include his right hand since he lost that down the reactor shaft courtesy of Luke.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jabba the Slug on August 12, 2009, 01:48 PM
I've been under the impression that Luke did burn Vader/Anakin's physical body as we didn't see him pass on or "disappear" into the force as Obi-Wan and Yoda did. And, if Hasbro were to do it right, Vader shouldn't include his right hand since he lost that down the reactor shaft courtesy of Luke.

I don't have a link, but to clear it up for you, if you go to Wookiepedia and search Darth Vader, it says that what was left of his organic body dematerialized. Yeah, we don't see it happen, but he passed on like Yoda and Obi-Wan did (makes you wonder why Qui-Gon didn't). So all Luke is burning is his armor. 
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Greg on August 12, 2009, 01:57 PM
I've been under the impression that Luke did burn Vader/Anakin's physical body as we didn't see him pass on or "disappear" into the force as Obi-Wan and Yoda did. And, if Hasbro were to do it right, Vader shouldn't include his right hand since he lost that down the reactor shaft courtesy of Luke.

I don't have a link, but to clear it up for you, if you go to Wookiepedia and search Darth Vader, it says that what was left of his organic body dematerialized. Yeah, we don't see it happen, but he passed on like Yoda and Obi-Wan did (makes you wonder why Qui-Gon didn't). So all Luke is burning is his armor. 

I was under the impression that Qui-Gon wasn't an expert in the Force "ghost" thing. He was able to communicate through the force, but not appear as visions.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Scott on August 12, 2009, 01:57 PM
I've been under the impression that Luke did burn Vader/Anakin's physical body as we didn't see him pass on or "disappear" into the force as Obi-Wan and Yoda did. And, if Hasbro were to do it right, Vader shouldn't include his right hand since he lost that down the reactor shaft courtesy of Luke.
Yeah, I think I have read that LFL has claimed Vader's body did indeed disappear off screen...
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jayson on August 12, 2009, 02:04 PM
I've been under the impression that Luke did burn Vader/Anakin's physical body as we didn't see him pass on or "disappear" into the force as Obi-Wan and Yoda did. And, if Hasbro were to do it right, Vader shouldn't include his right hand since he lost that down the reactor shaft courtesy of Luke.
Yeah, I think I have read that LFL has claimed Vader's body did indeed disappear off screen...

I must unlearn what I have learned...
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: iFett on August 12, 2009, 02:08 PM
Kinda sick, but I've always kinda wondered in the back of my mind.  Do any of you guys think Luke would have put on his father's armor/suit (for whatever reason) before he torched it?
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jayson on August 12, 2009, 02:10 PM
Kinda sick, but I've always kinda wondered in the back of my mind.  Do any of you guys think Luke would have put on his father's armor/suit (for whatever reason) before he torched it?

No, but I bet he smelled the inside of the helmet though. (http://www.thescubasite.com/smile/sick/sick0020.gif)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Matt on August 12, 2009, 02:52 PM
I've been under the impression that Luke did burn Vader/Anakin's physical body as we didn't see him pass on or "disappear" into the force as Obi-Wan and Yoda did. And, if Hasbro were to do it right, Vader shouldn't include his right hand since he lost that down the reactor shaft courtesy of Luke.

I don't have a link, but to clear it up for you, if you go to Wookiepedia and search Darth Vader, it says that what was left of his organic body dematerialized. Yeah, we don't see it happen, but he passed on like Yoda and Obi-Wan did (makes you wonder why Qui-Gon didn't). So all Luke is burning is his armor. 

And. . .  meh.

This is when I say **** Wookieepedia, **** Lucasland, and **** the napkin.  In my own little personal Star Wars reality, if it didn't happen on-screen, then it didn't happen.  That body was in that suit the whole time.

And the smell was horrible.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Carpeteria3000 on August 12, 2009, 03:20 PM
I was under the impression that Qui-Gon wasn't an expert in the Force "ghost" thing. He was able to communicate through the force, but not appear as visions.

Ep. III implies that Obi Wan had to mediate and contact Qui Gon in order to learn how to pass onto the Force, or whatever. Fine, but then if Obi Wan had to learn how to do it, how the hell did Anakin know the technique? Sure didn't look like he was doing anything active about it when he died (and the opposite for Obi-Wan, and I suppose, Yoda). This is a bit inconsistent.

I think, cinematically, the reason Vader didn't disappear in the suit the way Obi Wan and Yoda did, is so that Lucas could have his climactic reveal of Sebastian Shaw at the end, showing that Vader indeed did return to the light side. If he did it on the DS, it wouldn't have been as "surprising" maybe.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darth_Anton on August 13, 2009, 11:10 AM


I was under the impression that Qui-Gon wasn't an expert in the Force "ghost" thing. He was able to communicate through the force, but not appear as visions.

It's called covering for the fact that the actor didn't want to come back.  :P
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Greg on August 13, 2009, 01:44 PM


I was under the impression that Qui-Gon wasn't an expert in the Force "ghost" thing. He was able to communicate through the force, but not appear as visions.

It's called covering for the fact that the actor didn't want to come back.  :P

I thought Liam Neeson enjoyed working on Star Wars and wouldn't have minded coming back. I heard his schedule was more of the issue, as he had Kingdom of Heaven, Batman, and Chronicles of Narnia all being released that same year.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on August 13, 2009, 01:55 PM
I thought Liam Neeson enjoyed working on Star Wars and wouldn't have minded coming back. I heard his schedule was more of the issue, as he had Kingdom of Heaven, Batman, and Chronicles of Narnia all being released that same year.

I would love to see a scene added back in with Liam that that could add like the SE's. I think it would make that whole dynamic have so much more impact, even to the average viewer. Qui-Gon was the best part of EP1.

On another Liam note the movie Taken is friggin awesome. Worth watching.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Greg on August 13, 2009, 02:00 PM
On another Liam note the movie Taken is friggin awesome. Worth watching.

Amen brother! What an awesome two hours of straight ass kicking. I had no idea that Hollywood could still produce decent action movies until I saw Taken back in January.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on August 13, 2009, 03:41 PM
On another Liam note the movie Taken is friggin awesome. Worth watching.

Amen brother! What an awesome two hours of straight ass kicking. I had no idea that Hollywood could still produce decent action movies until I saw Taken back in January.

Did you notice there was no foul language? To me that made it more awesome that is was so good it did not need to go there.
I really hope they do shoot a special scene with him.

The EP1 Wal-Mart Light up Qui-Gon figure is great and makes the perfect Ghost of Qui-Gon to use with your figure displays. That's why I really would love this Pyre. I like the end of Jedi thing to put on display. I hope this gets made, this is one thing I thought I would never see.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darth_Anton on August 14, 2009, 10:41 AM


I was under the impression that Qui-Gon wasn't an expert in the Force "ghost" thing. He was able to communicate through the force, but not appear as visions.

It's called covering for the fact that the actor didn't want to come back.  :P

I thought Liam Neeson enjoyed working on Star Wars and wouldn't have minded coming back. I heard his schedule was more of the issue, as he had Kingdom of Heaven, Batman, and Chronicles of Narnia all being released that same year.

I did a fact check, which I should have done in the first place. Apparently, he was recovering from a motorcycle accident around his scheduled time of filming.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jim on August 14, 2009, 03:29 PM
I would imagine that Qui-Gon's Spirit will eventually make its way in the PT (as it was originally intended to).  Rumor was that scenes were filmed without Neeson, but with Ewan and Yoda so the whole digital thing could take place at a later time.  Not sure the truth of the rumor but I wouldnt rule it out.

If he is added to the OT then I will be sorely disappointed.  There was never any mention of him during Lukes/Yodas or Bens conversations. At least on screen.  Plus it would not make much sense to end him at the end of ROTJ.  It just opens up a can of worms for other notable Jedi such as Mace, etc.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Pete_Fett on August 15, 2009, 11:23 AM
My understanding with the whole Liam Neeson thing is this:

For Attack of the Clones, George Lucas didn't ask him, he just recycled audio from EP1 for the scene where Yoda is meditating and hears Qui-Gon pleading with Anakin to stop slaughtering the Tusken Raiders.

Supposedly, the re-use of his voice did not sit well with Liam and he complained to George. George responded with the fact that when Liam signed his contract all rights to to Liam in the likeness of Qui-Gon were owned by Lucasfilm and that includes Liam saying Qui-Gon dialog.

I'm not sure what the outcome was on that, but when it came time to put together ROTS, Liam Neeson basically told Lucas to go-to-hell since he didn't want to anything more to do with Star Wars.

Also, it really depends on what interview you see with Neeson. In early interviews around the time the movie was being promoted, he's very positive. In later interviews, both he and Ewan complained about all of the green-screen work and how acting was secondary to interacting with the visual effects - and as such they didn't enjoy Star Wars as much as they had hoped they would.

Perhaps these are just rumors, but having Qui-Gon appear near the end of ROTS would have made the movie (in my mind) PERFECT.

Lucas even kept promising that in ROTS we would learn the secret of how Jedi can appear as force ghosts after death.

A scene with Qui-Gon speaking to both Yoda and Obi-Wan would have been awesome. What we got instead - an imaginary conversation in Yoda's head - was just lame.

It's one of those things when Lucas should have paid Liam Neeson whatever he wanted just for dressing up as Qui-Gon one more time and saying three or four lines - for the sake of making the PT all that much better.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Carpeteria3000 on August 15, 2009, 03:07 PM
It's one of those things when Lucas should have paid Liam Neeson whatever he wanted just for dressing up as Qui-Gon one more time and saying three or four lines - for the sake of making the PT all that much better.

Well, as we know, Lucas is far from above doing it many years later, so don't give up the fanboy hope just yet.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jim on August 15, 2009, 05:10 PM
I agree with the above statements.  On a similar note, when watching Alec Guiness in ROTJ he looks so much older than ANH.  Understandable since it was filmed many years later but man it looks like crap IMO.

As far as Liam Neeson, I remember an interview when he was asked if he would reappear in AOTC and he just smiled and winked during the interview, which in turn I thought was going to be a scene that was very secretive as to surprise the audience.  Like said above there must of been a major head butting with Lucas on the fact.  I thought for sure that he would appear, filling in a major gap and explanation that really still has not been touched upon.

Who knows, maybe during the TV series this will be explained.  Although we know Qui-Gon taught Obi-Wan on Tatooine I could never see them appearing due to the money situation.  But maybe some day when their careers are washed up it might happen when they need work.  Especially since I dont see the TV show happening any time soon.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Brian on August 17, 2009, 12:23 PM
My understanding with the whole Liam Neeson thing is this:

For Attack of the Clones, George Lucas didn't ask him, he just recycled audio from EP1 for the scene where Yoda is meditating and hears Qui-Gon pleading with Anakin to stop slaughtering the Tusken Raiders.

Supposedly, the re-use of his voice did not sit well with Liam and he complained to George. George responded with the fact that when Liam signed his contract all rights to to Liam in the likeness of Qui-Gon were owned by Lucasfilm and that includes Liam saying Qui-Gon dialog.

I'm not sure what the outcome was on that, but when it came time to put together ROTS, Liam Neeson basically told Lucas to go-to-hell since he didn't want to anything more to do with Star Wars.

Also, it really depends on what interview you see with Neeson. In early interviews around the time the movie was being promoted, he's very positive. In later interviews, both he and Ewan complained about all of the green-screen work and how acting was secondary to interacting with the visual effects - and as such they didn't enjoy Star Wars as much as they had hoped they would.

Perhaps these are just rumors, but having Qui-Gon appear near the end of ROTS would have made the movie (in my mind) PERFECT.

Lucas even kept promising that in ROTS we would learn the secret of how Jedi can appear as force ghosts after death.

A scene with Qui-Gon speaking to both Yoda and Obi-Wan would have been awesome. What we got instead - an imaginary conversation in Yoda's head - was just lame.

It's one of those things when Lucas should have paid Liam Neeson whatever he wanted just for dressing up as Qui-Gon one more time and saying three or four lines - for the sake of making the PT all that much better.

I agree.  I think it would have been really cool to see Qui-Gon in that capacity, and would have made ROTS even better.  There was a lot of stuff to stick in that movie, I understand, but it would have been cool if they could have found room for that.  I always thought Qui-Gon was one of the better new characters of the prequels, and it would have gave him a little more significance than his role in TPM.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Matt_Fury on August 17, 2009, 08:28 PM
There's always this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHxXaY7NR3w&playnext=2&p=6894EF1ECB43A4F0&index=75&feature=PlayList&playnext_from=PL&ytsession=lsiewd68X1HLkaybTM1gxG_QMnNZeCkRAkRW_LP3TAX-SHMQQ_PWhPR7_JBskE2zZ2Zig1V9OBZdE8ncHOwIMjpzMaudmfaol0ZLsbXE4puEAvByJAD2_4M6_qTqY3eFbyOpXmezuWVqZo3WtcP4NaHDXuDlomN8VONJVFLlq7WgJoeVq4BHZRcQ12sBsbRCB9q2PBdvTpFzZ9NG-X0jMHv7FZ_LGjWIm96jw5CQn-A2R39NzlX9OWWM7R6CZMJVSFsPMXiDaJPL-u1qYWSWGMe6qr1jYDU1Gwu3VZ0V9vcfu2IYsOtNeMYtvCqVC1AFixDsJFzhfaN20jjkaF6b1ucNdw8GbROfydfBHUYKPNWYLStnDDvGO2c-e03yT6YpypZkD6iZ53kLin9LZc-PLqCdG97XE3_6RnG7jV_UVWAFFx_SPmz6J25lYtdFjGZEDMUruKQMWcUp2LaccygXQA)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jesse James on August 21, 2009, 03:50 AM
Some good news for fans of this in our Q&A, at least as far as pricing goes...  Now, I just hope they make it.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on August 23, 2009, 03:42 AM
Some good news for fans of this in our Q&A, at least as far as pricing goes...  Now, I just hope they make it.

A little gasoline on the fire never hurt nobody.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Nicklab on August 23, 2009, 04:29 AM
Get off the cross Adam.   We need the wood for the fire.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on August 24, 2009, 07:00 PM
My work here is done. :D
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jabba the Slug on October 11, 2009, 12:28 AM
I thought about it and now with the status of the Legacy Collection as of 2009, I really can't see this set doing to well.  :( With poor distributions and sales, it'll just be way too overpriced for what it is and will most likely collect dust on retail store shelves. There hasn't been any news of this set as of late, anyways...   ???
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JesseVader08 on October 11, 2009, 12:36 AM
I still don't think this will be a retail item, but a show & online exclusive, which will help its sales.  That's assuming it turns out to be a decent piece of course.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darth Broem on October 11, 2009, 01:05 AM
Toys R Us will take it and jack up the price to $50 a pop easy. 
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jabba the Slug on October 11, 2009, 05:57 PM
Toys R Us will take it and jack up the price to $50 a pop easy. 

That'd be horrible! I could totally see Toys R' Us as the seller, but at $50. Too expensive.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Force Guy on October 11, 2009, 11:33 PM
Toys R Us will take it and jack up the price to $50 a pop easy. 

That'd be horrible! I could totally see Toys R' Us as the seller, but at $50. Too expensive.

Not expensive to everyone.  There's plenty of yoyo's around here that would dish out $50 regardless.   
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jabba the Slug on October 25, 2009, 04:51 AM
With everything that's been goin' on lately, betcha this set isn't getting made - *but* maybe, just maybe it'll be made for the future ... it'd be a good set for 2018/whenever Hasbro loses the Star Wars license and decides not to continue ... 
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darth Broem on October 25, 2009, 06:25 PM
They did make some comment about the figures being good for collectors in 2010.  Maybe they are grouping this in with their statement?  I don't know. 
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jeff on November 16, 2009, 08:13 PM
A small update thanks to the Hasbro Q&A (http://hanshideout.blogspot.com/2009/11/hasbro-star-wars-q-session-19.html):

1. Now that you've had some time to digest the fan response to that Funeral Pyre Darth Vader set at and after SDCC, what do you think - yea or nay? Any closer to finding it a home in the 2010/2011 line-up? Or is it pretty much dead thanks to the slowdown in Legacy product demand?

** The response seemed to be good, and we're on the hunt for a suitable retail partner for this. The slowdown in Legacy has not helped a lot of collector-targeted exclusives (as this would be) so we have to find the right partner who can work with smaller quantities.


No confirmation or anything, but at least it hasn't been totally dismissed yet...
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: jedi_master_sal on November 17, 2009, 01:58 PM
But "smaller quantitites" is also going to mean HIGHER price point...

Meh, this is already looking like a pass for me. Honestly, 2 rehashed figures and a stack of twigs with maybe a small LED in them. $20 ok, more than that? Have you met my friend Ben Dover...
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jabba the Slug on November 18, 2009, 12:13 AM
Honestly, I hope this set isn't made. :( It's a waste right now. Good idea, but it would be better for whenever Hasbro does a final goodbye to the Star Wars line in general.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Nicklab on November 18, 2009, 10:36 AM
Sounds like a potential Star Wars Shop exclusive to me.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darth_Anton on November 19, 2009, 09:17 AM
There you go. Sounds like a good venue.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: jedi_master_sal on November 19, 2009, 11:05 AM
There you go. Sounds like a good venue.

Agreed. Then it can just collect dust there at SWS.com instead of mucking up store shelves and other reputable e-tailers warehouses...
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on March 8, 2010, 10:30 PM
Has there been any updates on this item yet? Is it dead or will it be coming. i for one am one that would like to add this to my collection. Q&A question maybe.....
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jeff on March 8, 2010, 10:43 PM
Not dead, but in the "maybe, someday, if we can find the right partner" pile...
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on March 8, 2010, 10:45 PM
Not dead, but in the "maybe, someday, if we can find the right partner" pile...

Thanks for the info. Maybe some news will pop up at SDCC. That or it's dead.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jesse James on March 8, 2010, 10:49 PM
Seems more that the punch in the nuts realistic took recently has them thinking it's gotta be at the right time and 2010's maybe not it.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darth Broem on March 9, 2010, 12:02 AM
It really may not be the right time depending what the pricetag is going to be for it.  Maybe next year?
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Matt_Fury on March 9, 2010, 12:34 AM
I think, if this is made at all, you'll see it as some convention exclusive during the 30th Anniversary of ROTJ.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: McMetal on March 9, 2010, 10:07 AM
I think Adam Pawlus just answered a question about this on GH yesterday, did not sound optimistic.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: iFett on March 9, 2010, 10:12 AM
That's because he HATES everything about this thing.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on March 9, 2010, 01:13 PM
That's because he HATES everything about this thing.

Not true!  I like the Darth Vader figure.  I also have that Darth Vader figure.  I also like the Luke figure a great deal.   Interestingly, I also have that Luke figure.  (Not the torch, but still, I can cobble one together.)

I hate the notion that the fans are being asked to shell out again for toys they already own with plastic wood and flame chunks at, most likely, a higher than what I'd like to pay price point.   
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on March 9, 2010, 02:37 PM
That's because he HATES everything about this thing.

Not true!  I like the Darth Vader figure.  I also have that Darth Vader figure.  I also like the Luke figure a great deal.   Interestingly, I also have that Luke figure.  (Not the torch, but still, I can cobble one together.)

I hate the notion that the fans are being asked to shell out again for toys they already own with plastic wood and flame chunks at, most likely, a higher than what I'd like to pay price point.   

With all due respect is it really any different from a redeco vehicle (Imp ARC, TRU Tie Interceptor) or a resculpt like an AT-AT?

I for one really would like to purchase the plastic Light up pyre wood display with sounds, including two figures I already have. I do not mind the premium price as long as the item looks great. Maybe I am in the minority, but I rather see the line go a little more MOTU Classics. That line does not skimp out on details/paint comes at a premium that many of us are happy to pay. I rather pay more for an item done right than a half assed execution just to have a lower price.

I am happy that Hasbro asked, I would be willing to preorder and pay now to guarantee the sale to get this made.

BTW - A great torch is available via Indian Jones. So you can reuse that...... ;)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: ruiner on March 9, 2010, 02:47 PM
Long live MOTU Classics!

(http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g220/sallah4life/hemannew/68.jpg)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on March 9, 2010, 03:16 PM
Hell's yeah!!!

(http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w298/jackoftradze/bc6.jpg)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on March 9, 2010, 03:34 PM
With all due respect is it really any different from a redeco vehicle (Imp ARC, TRU Tie Interceptor) or a resculpt like an AT-AT?

Sure.  The AT-AT is a completely new toy, remade from the ground up with modern toy technology.  In this case, it's taking the 2008 Darth Vader and giving him a flat surface to lay on.  It's 2009 Luke, with a new stick.  Granted, it's a nice stick.   This is more like the 2006 AT-AT, which took the 1990s AT-AT (which itself was a modified 1980 AT-AT) and tossed in an exclusive figure which, really, was just a regular figure with a new head.   "Just Different Enough to Make You MadTM."

The new TIE Interceptor was properly recolored, included a new (at the time) super-articulated pilot, and had a resculpted interior.  The Imperial ARC 170-- which was a weak item, I won't argue there-- at least gave a new paint job to an existing toy.  But that might be the best illustration of my point, the price really wasn't good for what you got.

And remember, if Hasbro doesn't make this item, the fans can get a pretty close replica. It isn't THAT hard to manufacture an unlicensed item, and a pile of sticks with electronics and flame sound effects is something you can make without a license.  It's not even kinda close, a funeral pyre isn't Star Wars specific.  Transformers fans can (and do) do this sort of thing, so there's no reason that we as a group can't if we really, really wanted one for our collections.   If you're a MIB collector, well, that's a different beast but a similar product can be made by a third party if the market wants it if Hasbro ever says, once and for all, "we're not going to make this."  If/when Hasbro decides they can make money on this, I'm sure we'll see it.

MOTU Classics is absolutely not the way I'd want this line to go... they're wonderful figures and I buy 'em too, but one day sale windows to buy a figure, and then you gotta wait months for a reissue-- should one happen?  That's awful.  And not in Hasbro's business model, yet at least.  In the 1990s there was a stink about Hasbro selling figures directly through StarWars.Hasbro.com with its first internet exclusive, and that seems to have basically (and unfortunately) stuck.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on March 10, 2010, 11:16 AM
Sure.  The AT-AT is a completely new toy, remade from the ground up with modern toy technology.  In this case, it's taking the 2008 Darth Vader and giving him a flat surface to lay on.  It's 2009 Luke, with a new stick.  Granted, it's a nice stick.   This is more like the 2006 AT-AT, which took the 1990s AT-AT (which itself was a modified 1980 AT-AT) and tossed in an exclusive figure which, really, was just a regular figure with a new head.   "Just Different Enough to Make You MadTM."

I truly mean this in the most respectful way with my rebuttal, I have always loved your site and commentary so please take it as a friendly debate.

The comparison you gave with AT-AT actually puts this item on the same level as you described. The 2010 AT-AT is new with a figure from 2006 and Speederbike from 1983. The Pyre, as far as my understanding, has lights & sound. It also looked very nice with translucent molding for the flame effect. In essence it's a diorama, one that has never been made before which is very appealing more than a "been there done that" redo item. It's more than just a table, it's a table on fire with lots of wood around it ;), lights/sound and two figures. If Hasbro is going to be really accurate with this item the Darth Vader on the table will have a battle damaged look as he was fried and had his hand lopped off yet again. I will not dispute your opinion if you dislike the concept but to classify as   "Just Different Enough to Make You MadTM" is not intellectually honest.

The new TIE Interceptor was properly recolored, included a new (at the time) super-articulated pilot, and had a resculpted interior.  The Imperial ARC 170-- which was a weak item, I won't argue there-- at least gave a new paint job to an existing toy.  But that might be the best illustration of my point, the price really wasn't good for what you got.

The TRU Tie Interceptor (I love it and upgraded my fleet to it) falls into the   "Just Different Enough to Make You MadTM"  way more than the never before made pyre. It uses the same wings while the rest is indeed new had a slightly different Pilot from the WM Evo pack that was released just prior. Even the new 2008 Hatch had a minor tool modification this time around but it was an item we already had a few times over. The Imp arc is the poster item for what not to charge for a repaint of a vehicle we already had a few times over as well. (I really like this item too, nice deco crappy price but I got it for $40 so I did not feel ripped off.) The Imp are truly is a "Just Different Enough to Make You MadTM"
The Pyre is a never before done item, so it's apples to oranges. Again I respect not liking the concept, but it's own category. It's more in line with Disturbance in the Force (I love that item and was a good value at $15) & Talking Vader from C3.

And remember, if Hasbro doesn't make this item, the fans can get a pretty close replica. It isn't THAT hard to manufacture an unlicensed item, and a pile of sticks with electronics and flame sound effects is something you can make without a license.  It's not even kinda close, a funeral pyre isn't Star Wars specific.  Transformers fans can (and do) do this sort of thing, so there's no reason that we as a group can't if we really, really wanted one for our collections.   If you're a MIB collector, well, that's a different beast but a similar product can be made by a third party if the market wants it if Hasbro ever says, once and for all, "we're not going to make this."  If/when Hasbro decides they can make money on this, I'm sure we'll see it.

I won't disagree with you there. I have literally made over 2000 customs (No joke) in the last 4 years. I can easily make this but I prefer an official release. I am currently making a Jabba Place dio because I know it's something we can never get, I am fine with that. After seeing the Hasbro Pyre mock up, I really want it.

MOTU Classics is absolutely not the way I'd want this line to go... they're wonderful figures and I buy 'em too, but one day sale windows to buy a figure, and then you gotta wait months for a reissue-- should one happen?  That's awful.  And not in Hasbro's business model, yet at least.  In the 1990s there was a stink about Hasbro selling figures directly through StarWars.Hasbro.com with its first internet exclusive, and that seems to have basically (and unfortunately) stuck.

I was referring to the price value aspect in no way the sales. It's the worst so I agree with you there. I used to work there, I know their incompetence intimately. But paying a premium for an item that kicks butt, done right and has great deco/articulation etc is something I personally am willing to pay for.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Adam_Pawlus on March 10, 2010, 03:25 PM
I reject the vehicle comparison. :)  Apples and oranges.  An AT-AT's chief selling point is the AT-AT, the fact that it comes with a bike or an old figure is icing on the cake.  Different audiences, different expectations.  It's not the same kind of customer.  The person who buys a pyre may well buy literally any Hasbro Star Wars item, but the TIE Interceptor casts a much wider net-- boring or no, Star Wars vehicles and characters that keep getting trotted out are trotted out for a reason.  A new group of kids discovers Star Wars every day, and these are evergreen products.

Heck, the Lars Homestead is probably really the best analogy to the Pyre.  You have a piece of scenery people wanted with figures they already had-- and one that they didn't with the Womprat.  Now I know it's an off-scene scene, but that doesn't necessarily matter.  It just wasn't a fun package to collectors and even though it did offer some new stuff, like Luke's house, that didn't quite make it work.  This kind of a product just doesn't really have a place in the post-playset world.

Another fine example is Vader 500.  That thing may have been overproduced-- I simply do not know-- but I've seen some at big box stores as recently as last year.  This may just be a bad category unless it's made as a high-price, low-run exclusive.  Which basically means it would be a pretty swell Sideshow diorama, and what I've seen puts this sort of thing in the category of a high-quality pricey product and not an action figure thing.

At this point, I'm basically secretly wishing this item gets made at the price proposed in a normal Hasbro-sized exclusive run (which is ample) so I can say "see?"  Cuz, you know, neither of us is ever going to convince the other one.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: CHEWIE on March 11, 2010, 12:43 AM
That's where I pretty much fall with this.  I don't need another of the same Luke or Vader... and if I want to have a funeral pyre, I can walk out in the back yard and grab a few sticks.  Done and done.

The Vader 500th was a different story for me, I liked the fact that it was a movie diorama-esque piece that isn't easy to build for the average collector.  I think that piece would have been much more fun though if the "top" was given the same treatment as the base of it was.  As it is, it's cool but seems like it's missing half of it... would love to see them release it later on with the complete chamber.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darth Broem on March 11, 2010, 09:36 AM
If they do make this I would assume they would update the Luke.  I would think they would probably put some sort of flame or some sort of discoloration on the Vader.  I can't remember the exact way Vader looks in this scene?  I think there is smoke coming from the helmet?  Maybe not.  Anyway, I would think they would do something unique with the Vader.  I am sure it would not be much and everyone would scoff at how lame it looks.  Like snow apps on a Hoth Chewbacca for example.  But I just doubt it will be a straight Vader from 2008 or whatever. 

Yeah, if it is those 2 figures that they are showing in the picture then yeah that would be really lame.  I just think that picture is just to get an idea of what it would look like.  I am sure the pyre and fire is what we'll get but not the 2 figures themselves.  I hope not anyway.  LOL! 

I can't customize worth a crap.  To be honest I would probably spring for this instead of collecting sticks.  For one thing I live in the desert in Arizona.  So, I can't get good sticks!  Cactus needles maybe. 

I am mainly worried about the price.  Whenever they add sounds/phrases it seems to bump up the pricetag.  I might go around $30 for this thing but probably not more than that. 
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jabba the Slug on March 14, 2010, 07:00 PM
I have 2 opinions as to where this set can go.

(1) It would be a better "Good-bye" set/concept for when Hasbro loses the 'Star Wars' license in 2018 (?). It would be a symbolic way for Hasbro to say bye to the 'Star Wars' license, and, who knows, it might actually make more sales than intended,

OR

(2) Hasbro should be quick to put this into the Vintage Collection. With its OT theme and core OT characters, it would be a better fit in a line that's going to be vintage/OT styled. 
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Nicklab on March 14, 2010, 08:42 PM
Obviously this is not intended to be a mainline offering.  I think it's bound to be either an event exclusive or an online exclusive.  Because it's a collector focused item.  It's not designed to have broad appeal.  And given the state of the collector base right now, I am not completely certain that this is going to make it to market.

My guess is that it's probably not coming out until next year at the earliest.  Hasbro spoke specifically about trying to regain some focus in the movie line this year.  But I think they're trying to bring back some of the collector base back into the fold this year with the Vintage Collection.  If that's successful and collector focused items start to sell better,  then perhaps it will be a positive development for the Funeral Pyre Vader.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Darth_Anton on March 15, 2010, 12:11 PM
I have 2 opinions as to where this set can go.

(1) It would be a better "Good-bye" set/concept for when Hasbro loses the 'Star Wars' license in 2018

No, no. By then the molds will be horribly out-dated. Toys will be scale replicas with full animatronics and capable of acting out full scenes of movies on their own.  :o
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jabba the Slug on March 20, 2010, 05:27 AM
I have 2 opinions as to where this set can go.

(1) It would be a better "Good-bye" set/concept for when Hasbro loses the 'Star Wars' license in 2018

No, no. By then the molds will be horribly out-dated. Toys will be scale replicas with full animatronics and capable of acting out full scenes of movies on their own.  :o

True that.  ;)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: STARKILLER on May 8, 2010, 09:46 AM
imo its a shame they never made this set,i thought it was an awesome tribute to a hallmark moment in the trilogy :(
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: P-Siddy on May 8, 2010, 04:27 PM
imo its a shame they never made this set,i thought it was an awesome tribute to a hallmark moment in the trilogy :(

That's exactly what the set could be. A Hallmark Christmas ornament.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: iFett on May 8, 2010, 05:01 PM
imo its a shame they never made this set,i thought it was an awesome tribute to a hallmark moment in the trilogy :(

That's exactly what the set could be. A Hallmark Christmas ornament.

Nah...I dig me some Hasbro plastic logs and sticks.   :D
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: STARKILLER on May 8, 2010, 08:35 PM
imo its a shame they never made this set,i thought it was an awesome tribute to a hallmark moment in the trilogy :(

That's exactly what the set could be. A Hallmark Christmas ornament.
well i thought it was an awesome idea,it was a very cool moment for me at least in the movie,very deep,but thats just me
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: P-Siddy on May 8, 2010, 08:37 PM
I agree, it's a cool moment in the movies and would be a neat playset. I was just thinking that if not action-figure based, they'd probably make a smaller scaled ornament with lights and sounds.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: STARKILLER on May 8, 2010, 08:48 PM
I agree, it's a cool moment in the movies and would be a neat playset. I was just thinking that if not action-figure based, they'd probably make a smaller scaled ornament with lights and sounds.
lol,true,they did make one of the rotj luke/vader dual,good point
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on May 10, 2010, 10:27 AM
I really hope this gets released this year or next. I may be in the minority but I really dug this sets a lot. I hope there is some news at SDCC.

Was there any Q&A update on this set, I do not remember if Hasbro gave any word on this set.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jeff on May 10, 2010, 11:31 AM
I think this was the last time it came up in the Q&A...

1. Now that you've had some time to digest the fan response to that Funeral Pyre Darth Vader set at and after SDCC, what do you think - yea or nay? Any closer to finding it a home in the 2010/2011 line-up? Or is it pretty much dead thanks to the slowdown in Legacy product demand?

** The response seemed to be good, and we're on the hunt for a suitable retail partner for this. The slowdown in Legacy has not helped a lot of collector-targeted exclusives (as this would be) so we have to find the right partner who can work with smaller quantities.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on May 10, 2010, 11:41 AM
Thanks! (I think I asked this before but keep forgetting) I appreciate the reply a lot!
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: STARKILLER on May 10, 2010, 09:00 PM
i just dont get why hasbro wont put out such an awesome new pack like this yet they rehash tons of lesser bp's all year,wait,nevermind,its just them being cheap,has to be,cause i think this set would be a hit
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jabba the Slug on May 10, 2010, 09:58 PM
i just dont get why hasbro wont put out such an awesome new pack like this yet they rehash tons of lesser bp's all year,wait,nevermind,its just them being cheap,has to be,cause i think this set would be a hit

I wonder if this set will end up in the BPs line? TVC would really be a great collection to hash this out in, especially in TVC packaging, not the blue "Shadow of the Dark Side" packaging.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Nicklab on June 5, 2010, 04:55 PM
Things are starting to not look so good for funeral pyre Darth Vader (http://www.toyark.com/news/star-wars-toy-news-3/star-wars-qa-round-6-answers-2829/).  It would almost have to be an online exclusive based on what the major retailers have been doing.  But as seen in some of the conversation in this thread, that's seeming less and less likely.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Master_Phruby on June 5, 2010, 07:46 PM
It would make a great mail in offer.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: iFett on June 6, 2010, 06:33 PM
Oh well.  Was looking forward to this, but no big deal if it never makes it....and what a waste of their #2 question.   ::)
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jabba the Slug on June 6, 2010, 07:59 PM
I personally don't care if this is made or not. We have plenty of Vaders and Lukes to recreate this scene ourselves.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JesseVader08 on June 7, 2010, 03:02 AM
Things are starting to not look so good for funeral pyre Darth Vader (http://www.toyark.com/news/star-wars-toy-news-3/star-wars-qa-round-6-answers-2829/).  It would almost have to be an online exclusive based on what the major retailers have been doing.  But as seen in some of the conversation in this thread, that's seeming less and less likely.

Damn.  I was really hoping this would make it.  It still needed some work, the flames weren't quite right, but it was a neat concept.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: CHEWIE on June 7, 2010, 11:10 AM
Can't say that I'm surprised - I don't think the concept looked very good.  And this isn't one that I'd really have wanted anyway; primary because the display we saw didn't appeal to me.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on June 7, 2010, 10:54 PM
I am really disappointed to hear the bleak news on this one. I thought this would have been a cool display piece for an iconic scene that wraps up the saga. Hopefully it will see a limited run one day, I was 100% in for this one.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Matt_Fury on June 7, 2010, 11:52 PM
Now we'll never get the Funeral Pyre with Qui-Gonn set.   :(
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: Jabba the Slug on June 8, 2010, 11:06 AM
Maybe it'll end up as a Comic-Con or Celebration exclusve. Hasbro wouldn't throw this thing 100% away.
Title: Re: Funeral Pyre Vader w/ Luke
Post by: JACKOFTRADZE on June 8, 2010, 02:58 PM
Maybe it'll end up as a Comic-Con or Celebration exclusve. Hasbro wouldn't throw this thing 100% away.

Perfect venue for this item. I would be cool with that. Hasbro are you listening?