JediDefender.com Forums
Multimedia => The Sequel Trilogy => Topic started by: Nicklab on July 10, 2015, 10:06 AM
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Heroic Hollywood (http://heroichollywood.com/home-1/2015/7/10/exclusive-colin-trevorrow-to-direct-star-wars-episode-9) is reporting that a director has been named for Episode IX, and it will be Colin Trevorrow. He's coming off of the very successful Jurassic World, and his role as director of Episode IX is set to be announced at SDCC 2015 today during the Star Wars presentation in Hall H.
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I like Trevorrow, and loved Safety Not Guaranteed, but JW didn't really do it for me. That being said he knows his way around a big budget blockbuster and his name has been in circulation since the beginning, so it would be no surprise at all.
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Terrible move, if true. We're talking about a guy who has directed ONE blockbuster movie, and like three total movies overall in his entire career. Yeah, that one blockbuster made a boatload of cash, it was a pretty bad movie when it comes down to the contents.
But hey, a random female character will probably die in a long, ridiculous, and overexaggerated manner, so we'll have that.
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But hey, a random female character will probably die in a long, ridiculous, and overexaggerated manner, so we'll have that.
This.
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I wish Abrams was just doing the whole trilogy...
Disney spent a lot of money, so they're expecting to make a lot of money... I honestly think we're about to see Star Wars go from a special thing that you can't wait for, to a watered down annual event that gets stale pretty quickly.
Five movies have already been announced and the directors are all over the map. I just hope that someone is maintaining a vision of how this is all going to come together or stay consistent, and I hope that at least 7-8-9 meets expectations, even if the spin-offs are spin-offy.
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Disney/Lucasfilm finally confirms the rumor that's been floating around all summer - Colin Trevorrow will direct Star Wars: Episode IX (http://www.starwars.com/news/colin-trevorrow-to-direct-star-wars-episode-ix).
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So what happens after Episode IX? Do we get anthology movies after that? Do we get a new series that isn't based on the Skywalker family? Star Wars needs as many movies as the Marvel Cinematic Universe gets.
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I think that all depends on how well the new trilogy is received. And that means with fans, the mainstream movie audience, and overall profits.
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I agree with you guys completely! They need to hire a director who has experience and a filmography which includes lots of blockbusters! Otherwise Episode VI will tank. I mean who the hell is Richard Marquand anyway??????
;)
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Check out this Star Wars News Net article (http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2017/01/is-disney-already-planning-to-bring-a-cg-leia-to-the-big-screen-for-episode-ix.html) that touches on some of the possibilities of how Lucasfilm and Disney may deal with the passing of Carrie Fisher. It even goes so far to say that Disney may be in contact with Carrie Fisher's estate in order to secure her likeness rights.
I take this as half rumor/half Disney making a play to secure these rights in the event that Lucasfilm decides to go in this direction. I don't take this as confirmation that Lucasfilm wants to make a CGI Carrie Fisher for Episode IX, but that they want to have that option open to them. All of that being said, the idea doesn't sit too well with me since it's only been a short time since Carrie Fisher passed.
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I saw a story that she cried when she saw her likeness in Rogue One. I hope they are able to do her legacy with star wars justice.
I can see then using her likeness to give her a valiant death early in Episode IX...if she were in the entire movie, that would be a bit much imho.
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Disney is denying it as of today:
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jan/13/carrie-fisher-disney-negotiating-for-digital-rights-star-wars (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jan/13/carrie-fisher-disney-negotiating-for-digital-rights-star-wars)
I seriously doubt anyone is bothering her family over something like this now. IX starts filming a year from now so they have plenty of time to work out what to do with Leia. If that involves some kind of digital anything, then there is enormous amounts of time to work that out. There is no need for them to even go there now without any understanding of what they would be using or if they would be using it, especially with a script that is likely nowhere near complete.
As for what I'd like to see done with Leia personally, I really don't know. There are no good options. One is to recast her, which I think is a non-starter. Another is the digital route, which depending on how necessary Leia is to the resolution - I'd think very - may be the only option. The last would be to simply kill her offscreen (cheap and unfulfilling) or let her disappear out of the narrative (on a mission to such and such) also cheap and unfulfilling. It's going to be a tough decision for them to make.
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I would expect Disney to deny the story. From a PR/fan relations standpoint it would look insensitive. But I think there's the possibility that the Disney brass having seen ROGUE ONE might consider a digital Leia an option.
I would also think that the Episode IX crew is trying to get a final script together so that preproduction can get underway. These movies take a while to make, and having to work around a major character like this is a big deal. Part of me has been wondering if they're going to rework Episode 8, but I don't know if that's even a reasonable option.
To say that this situation is complicated is a tremendous understatement.
EDIT:
I'm relieved to see that The Official Site has posted the following statement (http://www.starwars.com/news/a-statement-regarding-new-rumors):
JANUARY 13, 2017
A Statement Regarding New Rumors
We don’t normally respond to fan or press speculation, but there is a rumor circulating that we would like to address. We want to assure our fans that Lucasfilm has no plans to digitally recreate Carrie Fisher’s performance as Princess or General Leia Organa.
Carrie Fisher was, is, and always will be a part of the Lucasfilm family. She was our princess, our general, and more importantly, our friend. We are still hurting from her loss. We cherish her memory and legacy as Princess Leia, and will always strive to honor everything she gave to Star Wars.
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I'm glad to see the statement too and I think the sensitivity of the issue warranted it. I think it also likely means Leia will exit the series in VIII and they'll rework the ending somehow to accommodate that. I just think there's too many hurdles otherwise to achieve what apparently was a substantial role in IX. Breaks my heart having to talk about any of this really.
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Maybe she dies of a broken heart?
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Maybe she dies of a broken heart?
Now that's hilarious
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This could cause a production delay that would finally put the movies out in May where they belong!
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Kathleen Kennedy says Star Wars: Episode IX 'started over' after Carrie Fisher's death (http://ew.com/movies/2017/04/14/kathleen-kennedy-episode-ix-carrie-fisher-death/)
Despite earlier reports, Kennedy said today that Carrie Fisher will not appear in Episode 9 at all.
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This could cause a production delay that would finally put the movies out in May where they belong!
Disney prefers the less competitive X-Mas season, they get the spill over of the January new movie dead zone.
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Disney prefers the less competitive X-Mas season, they get the spill over of the January new movie dead zone.
Hey, I can dream!
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Kathleen Kennedy says Star Wars: Episode IX 'started over' after Carrie Fisher's death (http://ew.com/movies/2017/04/14/kathleen-kennedy-episode-ix-carrie-fisher-death/)
Despite earlier reports, Kennedy said today that Carrie Fisher will not appear in Episode 9 at all.
It's good to get some clarification on that front. Especially in light of the recent statements from Todd Fisher.
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Star Wars: Episode IX is now set for release on May 24, 2019. Directed by Colin Trevorrow, the film will close out the third Star Wars trilogy.]
(http://a.dilcdn.com/bl/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2017/04/star-wars-episode-ix-logo-1024x576.jpg) (http://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-ix-and-next-indiana-jones-get-release-dates)
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A week before I turn 30 :-X
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Wow, you'll be an old man. It'll be a good movie to send-off the last vestiges of your youth. :D
So the return to May was supposedly to avoid the Avatar sequel or something.
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Wow, you'll be an old man. It'll be a good movie to send-off the last vestiges of your youth. :D
So the return to May was supposedly to avoid the Avatar sequel or something.
That doesn't make sense because the Avatar sequels aren't coming out until 2020 now. They announced Avatar before Episode IX. It looked more like Avatar was delaying to avoid Star Wars.
I have actually enjoyed the December releases since it gives me more time for multiple views due to the kids being out of school for winter break.
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Maybe they did it to avoid themselves... Disney also announced Frozen 2 for Thanksgiving weekend (November 27, 2019). Probably didn't want parents having to decide between the two during Christmas break. :P
And, in other news, Disney will have all the monies in 2019 -
March 8th - Captain Marvel
May 10 - Episode 9
June 21 - Toy Story 4
July 19 - live-action Lion King
Late Summer/Early Fall - Avengers: Infinity War Part 2
November 27 - Frozen 2
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So... maybe not surprisingly, this just happened:
http://variety.com/2017/film/news/colin-trevorrow-exits-star-wars-episode-ix-1202548088/
I'm sure there are already a bunch of hit pieces of Kathy Kennedy being posted as I write this. Clearly something is going on in the world of Lucasfilm. I happen to think it's more the slate of five films in five years was a little more than anyone was able to handle. There's just too many moving parts and without Lucas there, maybe too many interpretations on carrying on his vision.
Who knows.
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This is ridiculous. Well, good luck to Lucasfilm going forward. Seems to be a very "it's my ball and I'm going home" thing at Lucasfilm, god help you to be on the wrong side of that.
Wonder if they'll get anybody to work for them now. That's three ousted directors, equal to the number they haven't fired off their movies.
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This is not a good sign for E9. But then, where is the precedent for how things should be run in this new era?
In the OT era George wrote everything. Sure, he had co-writers like Larry Kasdan. And George directed Episode 4. After that George bowed out as the writer/director and took an Executive Producer position while Irvin Kirschner and Richard Marquand directed. But George was always intrinsically involved in the story and design.
For the PT era, Lucasfilm was a much better established film production company. George continued to write with collaborators and was back in the directors chair. Rumor has it that he offered the directing gig to people like Ron Howard and Spielberg, but they passed. Probably because they knew that George would be there as a shadow director guiding everything, and essentially told George to just direct the PT himself.
Now? Kathleen Kennedy is in that executive producer position. She likely works on things like casting, crew hiring, production schedules, script approvals, etc. But is she writing? The answer there is no. The only writer who seems to have held any kind of sway in the ST era is Larry Kasdan, who seems to be a writer/producer. Rian Johnson also seems to have a similar position as writer/director of THE LAST JEDI, but that appears to just be the one project.
I get the sense that Trevorrow's script was just not hitting the right notes. But this far along in the project? It really leaves you wondering if the production schedule has been so tight that the stories might be suffering.
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There have beens signals that Trevorrow wasn't working out, and there was never any enthusiasm for him, so this may be a good thing. It's certainly better than getting all the way into production and realizing it's not working.
I think as Nicklab says the films so far have lacked a cohesive vision. Kathy Kennedy isn't a visionary filmmaker, but she knows what a a SW film and has 3 billion dollars to back her up. What the films need is a guiding force, within the context of the films, and that person seems to be Rian Johnson. He gets it. There's no issues with TLJ and he's most likely going to take over IX. I think that's great. What the films need is stability and continuity.
Also, I don't think Star Wars is as elastic as some, especially Kennedy, might have believed. Coming into this, everyone anticipated all kinds of possible movies - a war movie, a heist movie, a comedy movie. SW has been a synthesis of all these films and genres. When you lean on one, it suffers. I think a SW film is pretty much what we've seen. There are variations in tone, but not in genre. That bodes ill for future anthology films, and off the shelf directors. It has to be within a certain context, guided by a writer and or director who gets it. Not just knows it; they get it. It comes from a place of understanding exactly what these movies are.
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This reminds me of situations at work where someone is a great manager, or great employee, but is terrible at hiring people because they don't understand EQ, or the company culture and how all the pieces fit together.
I'm not sure who is hiring these directors (Kennedy?), but whoever is doing the hiring may lack the EQ or skills to really understand what it is going to take for a director to succeed. Its not just about finding "a great director, but finding a good director who can work within the constructs of the Lucasfilm machine.
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Damn, I was looking forward to the extended torture scene where a minor female character is grabbed by a Dianoga and nearly drowned before the Dianoga is eaten by a Nexu, which eats the female until both are eaten by a Rancor
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Kennedy is hiring the directors (she runs Lucasfilm) and she is making the decisions to let them go. Her track record as a producer is legendary, and so far with SW, she's only made over 3 billion dollars off two movies. That's not to say there might not be a problem.
I think it has to do with vision (we've heard it several times now) and maybe the reality these directors face vs. what was offered to them. At the outset, a lot was made of we want to make creative, boundary stretching SW films (mainly in the anthology series). A lot of new, hot directors got soaked up into the hype and the machine and then they started making these movies, and some found out, uh oh, there's shareholders. There's box office goals. There's a type of film that's expected as opposed to what was possible, and perhaps - who knows - that has led to some friction at all levels.
Clearly JJ Abrams knows how to navigate this and make a good movie. Clearly Rian Johnson does too. Lord and Miller? Who knows. Trevorrow I think is a victim of expectations. He got picked in 2015 for a movie that comes out in 2019, off the back of Jurassic World. That movie made a ton of money, but he may not be the talent Kennedy thought he was.
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I think it has to do with vision (we've heard it several times now) and maybe the reality these directors face vs. what was offered to them. At the outset, a lot was made of we want to make creative, boundary stretching SW films (mainly in the anthology series). A lot of new, hot directors got soaked up into the hype and the machine and then they started making these movies, and some found out, uh oh, there's shareholders. There's box office goals. There's a type of film that's expected as opposed to what was possible, and perhaps - who knows - that has led to some friction at all levels.
It's not just Star Wars, Marvel has had their share of lost directors too. Edgar Wright got booted from Ant-Man, Whedon left Avengers Infinity War, Patti Jenkins left Thor, etc. Film insiders were saying the same kind of things about Marvel's Kevin Feige (http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/feature/a664341/does-marvel-studios-have-a-director-problem-why-a-list-filmmakers-are-fleeing-the-mcu/) that they are saying about KKennedy now.
Here was another good article from EW this summer (http://ew.com/movies/2017/06/28/marvel-lucasfilm-is-the-age-of-the-director-over/) about how the producers are the becoming the driving artistic forces for these Disney franchises and if directors can't work within those systems, they won't last long there.
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At least he is gone before filming has started.....unlike the Han Solo film.
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Here was another good article from EW this summer about how the producers are the becoming the driving artistic forces for these Disney franchises and if directors can't work within those systems, they won't last long there.
This is certainly the new normal. :(
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Episode 8 will bomb so hard that there won't be a episode IX. Landfills will surge with unsold Porg merchandise. The Han Solo movie will go straight to Netflix. Disney will scramble for anyone to buy the franchise...and a reborn CANNON Pictures will acquire the rights. :o
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I think it has to do with vision (we've heard it several times now) and maybe the reality these directors face vs. what was offered to them. At the outset, a lot was made of we want to make creative, boundary stretching SW films (mainly in the anthology series). A lot of new, hot directors got soaked up into the hype and the machine and then they started making these movies, and some found out, uh oh, there's shareholders. There's box office goals. There's a type of film that's expected as opposed to what was possible, and perhaps - who knows - that has led to some friction at all levels.
It's not just Star Wars, Marvel has had their share of lost directors too. Edgar Wright got booted from Ant-Man, Whedon left Avengers Infinity War, Patti Jenkins left Thor, etc. Film insiders were saying the same kind of things about Marvel's Kevin Feige (http://www.digitalspy.com/movies/feature/a664341/does-marvel-studios-have-a-director-problem-why-a-list-filmmakers-are-fleeing-the-mcu/) that they are saying about KKennedy now.
Here was another good article from EW this summer (http://ew.com/movies/2017/06/28/marvel-lucasfilm-is-the-age-of-the-director-over/) about how the producers are the becoming the driving artistic forces for these Disney franchises and if directors can't work within those systems, they won't last long there.
That does seem to be an appropriate comparison. And considering that both Lucasfilm and Marvel are under the Disney banner? I can see Bob Iger and Alan Horn of Disney supporting that kind of producer first business model. I appreciate that Kathleen Kennedy has wanted to pursue some developing talent on the director front. But there's also something to be said for going with a proven performer.
So who is reasonably in contention to take on this project? There are a number of people that come to mind. George had pursued both Ron Howard and Stephen Spielberg for the PT, but they both passed. Now Ron Howard is deep in post-production for the Han Solo movie. And Spielberg is booked up for the next few years with at least 3 or 4 directing gigs for greenlit projects.
There are some other people with links to K Kennedy, like her husband Frank Marshall who has a solid history with Lucasfilm, but mostly as a producer. Joe Johnston's name was brought up when we were having this discussion about the Han Solo movie. Gareth Edwards? While ROGUE ONE was generally well received, info that came to light following the release seems to indicate that he may have been in over his head.
The most far-fetched theory I've seen is that George would come back to do E9. I just can't see it happening. I think he wanted a clean break from things, despite having shown up for set visits and at Celebration Orlando. I got the sense that a big part of why he sold the company was that he was tired of being second-guessed by fans who fancied themselves as armchair critics/screenwriters/producers, and got very vocal about everything that they felt George had done wrong with THEIR favorite film franchise. You know, the one that he created himself. Why would he want to put himself through that again?
The safe money appears to be on either JJ Abrams coming back, or Rian Johnson. Just today there was an article in the NY Times about how 'The Last Jedi' (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/06/movies/star-wars-the-last-jedi-director-rian-johnson.html) is very much Johnson's movie, and that he has the confidence of people at Disney/Lucasfilm as both writer and director. And JJ isn't booked for any directing gigs right now.
I'm thinking that Kathleen Kennedy will tap either JJ or Rian Johnson for E9. While the new movies have had phenomenal box office grosses, the drama surrounding directors on multiple projects can't be reflecting on her well with Disney. And I think the safer bet might be the move to watch for.
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Unless he doesn't want to do it, it will almost certainly be Rian Johnson. If it's not broke, don't fix it. JJ has been pretty vocal (in the past, maybe it's different now) that he doesn't want to do any more sequels. I don't think there's any chance of anyone else unless they both pass. If that's the case, Gareth Edwards or perhaps Ron Howard.
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If TLJ is really good, I'm behind Rian Johnson getting the nod. Gareth Edwards would also be a good choice after how well done Rogue One is.
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TLJ is no doubt really deep into post production. Which means they probably have a final cut of the film, but they're still working on refining effects shots and animation, along with working on the sound mix and music. The studio execs from both Lucasfilm and Disney have probably screened this rough cut and have a very good idea about how the movie is going to play. And that will probably inform the decision making process if they want to offer Episode 9 to Rian Johnson.
As for Gareth Edwards? I keep seeing a lot about how Lucasfilm brought in Tony Gilroy to handle the ROGUE ONE reshoots, which were reportedly quite extensive. IIRC, that may have been the point in production where the decision was made that the principles of the Scarif strike team DID escape with the Death Star plans (remember those trailer shots of Jyn Erso and Cassian running on the beach dodging fire from AT-ACT's?). But that's another tangential discussion entirely.
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TLJ is coming pretty quick to picture lock (I believe TFA was October of 2015, could be wrong) and you're right, Disney and Lucasfilm know what they have in the movie and in Rian Johnson.
A factor in their decision is IX was supposed to begin filming in January-ish of next year. This almost certainly isn't going to happen now. Johnson could conceivably write the script and prep the film from the ground up as he's winding down TLJ, but at four months out or so, I doubt it and there's nothing lost in delaying it from May to December of 19.
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I think a shift in the production schedule is a near certainty. It was really ambitious when it was announced, and we've had significant changes occur since that initial Bob Iger statement that there would be a Star Wars movie every year. And in light of all of the director changes we might start to see a little more space between Star Wars films.
There are other factors that I think are coming into play, too. It seems like the merchandising schedule has been thrown off a bit by the aggressive film release schedule. It might not seem that relevant to film production, but those royalties that all of the licensees pay to Disney are nothing to sneeze at. Giving a merchandise line like that of TLJ more time at retail before it gets cleared out benefits the licensee AND Disney before they have to retool for the next product line.
The Han Solo movie has had significant issues. There's an Obi-Wan movie in development, too. And now we know that E9 has script issues, a change in director and there might be merchandising considerations. I can totally see Episode 9 sliding back to a December release.
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I've been staying out of these threads, but I wanted to pop in and just say that I'm really happy that Trevorrow is out.
I thought Jurassic World was fine as a big monster popcorn movie, but nothing about his resume left me thinking that he was the guy to take a Star Wars trilogy home in a way that would be special and meaningful.
I suppose the real question will be who do they get to replace him, but Kathleen Kennedy doesn't seem to be afraid to pull the trigger when someone's not getting the job done, which is a good thing. Why she hired Trevorrow in the first place always seemed like a head scratcher to me though.
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I kind of see Trevorrow - he had just come off JW, produced by Frank Marshall, Kennedy's husband. But like you and I think a lot of people it was like, I didn't see anything that gave me any confidence he's going to make a good SW film.
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It's Abrams:
http://deadline.com/2017/09/jj-abrams-star-wars-episode-9-director-colin-trevorrow-lucasfilm-disney-1202167681/amp/
I love this.
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I can't say that I'm surprised by this news. JJ already had an Executive Producer title on the production and didn't have any current directing projects in the pipeline, so we knew he was likely to be available.
I know there have been some criticisms of THE FORCE AWAKENS, many of which seem to revolve around how it strikes some similar notes to A NEW HOPE. But I think that given how Lucas was such a student of Joseph Campbell and the concept of the hero's journey, I think that establishing a new hero in TFA would be likely to hit some of the same story points as ANH. Episode 7 was a place setter that initiated a number of questions. Now we have to see how Episode 8 answers some of those questions, and continues a journey towards Episode 9.
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I sort of expected Johnson, and failing him JJ so there isn't much surprise here. I am somewhat surprised Johnson would pass, but maybe he just wants to do something else.
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I am somewhat surprised Johnson would pass, but maybe he just wants to do something else.
Like the rumored Obi-Wan Kenobi movie, I hope! ;)
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Help me Rian Johnson, you're my only hope. :D
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It's official - Disney/LFL are indeed pushing Episode IX release date back as well. @starwars (https://twitter.com/starwars/status/907686475512160256): "Star Wars: Episode IX is scheduled for release on December 20, 2019."
Makes you wonder if/when they are going to announce Han Solo is pushed back to Dec 2018 too...
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I'm shocked they haven't with Han Solo yet, but they might be waiting - and waiting - to get some distance from the Lord and Miller thing to announce the shift. Still definitely seems on for May, though. Hasbro mentioned it in one or two of the Q&A's from Hascon.
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Yeah, something just feels "right" about Star Wars movies and Christmas. Plus, this gets E9 out of that ridiculously stacked "3 weeks after Avengers 4, 3 weeks before Toy Story 4" release schedule
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Hopefully, they get Kasdan back to write Episode IX. JJ is not the best storyteller.
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I'd prefer Kasdan too. Abrams is a good writer, but Kasdan would put it over the top.
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Abrams is NOT a good writer. He and Damon Lindelof are horrible writers! They will introduce things to a story that they have no plans on explaining down the road...Abrams refers to it as a "mystery box". That is lazy writing at best which leads to ****** stories by the end.
The best example is Star Trek: Into Darkness. Kahn blows up a building, then transports himself to the Klingon homeworld. Interesting visual, but why does the Federation now need to spend billions of dollars on Spaceships when they could just transport people to practically anywhere in the galaxy? Also, did you notice how the transporters on the Enterprise would stop working at just the right time that they couldn't beam anyone up....but they sure could beam them down with pinpoint accuracy on moving objects! That's is poor writing because they do not take the time to "live" in the universe they are creating. There have to be rules to follow, and if a rule is broken, there has to be a valid reason why that rule was broken. This is effort that Abrams just does not put into his works.
JJ Abrams makes incredible images on film (that establishing shot of Jakku with the downed Star Destroyer is still incredible to look at), but he is a lazy writer and potentially good works suffer because of it.
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I won't argue any of that, but the Trek films were largely also Kurtzman and someone who I forget right now. Abrams signed off on it, so there's that. Abrams strength is in character, which is where TFA's strength was. He does seem more interested in puzzles and distractions than telling a good story sometimes, so if I have a concern about IX, it's that.
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The announcement yesterday said JJ will co-write the film with Chris Terrio, who won an Academy Award for the screenplay for Argo... but also wrote the Batman V. Superman movie. Not sure if that's good or bad...
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Still definitely seems on for May, though. Hasbro mentioned it in one or two of the Q&A's from Hascon.
And that right there is the reason why they aren't going to move the Han Solo movie.
Too much is "in the works" from a merchandising standpoint to pump the brakes by 7 months.
When you combine the limitations and ability to quickly adjust that Hasbro has to deal with with the identical/similar limitations and ability to quickly adjust that Lego has to deal with - any move in the release date of the Han Solo movie would throw off all Spring 2018 merchandising plans.
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Do we think Disney really cares that much about the timing of merchandising? I know it will make things really difficult for Disney's merchandising partners, but do you think there are penalties or other things in the licensing contract that would put inventory carrying costs on to Disney, or something like that?
I get the feeling that Hasbro is mostly at the mercy at Disney's decisions.
I know this is mostly a toy forum and we're all toy collectors, but I think Disney is in the drivers seat and Hasbro is just along for the ride.
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Yeah, it could be the train has left the station on a few things, but the movie is stillfilming. It's happened before where toys were bumped last minute. GI JOE Retaliation is the best example I can think of right now. We'll see though.
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I get the feeling that Hasbro is mostly at the mercy at Disney's decisions.
Yeah, it could be the train has left the station on a few things, but the movie is stillfilming. It's happened before where toys were bumped last minute. GI JOE Retaliation is the best example I can think of right now. We'll see though.
The thing I come back to is Hasbro's decision to launch the new Vintage Collection in Spring 2018... almost seems like they wanted to have that ready for that time slot in case the Han film got moved out. They could push back the 5POA Han stuff and not be left in the lurch with something new to offer to the adult fans, then have the usual Marvel stuff out for summer for kids.
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That sounds right on. Pushing some Han Solo TVC figs from May to September is no big deal.
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Merchandising is no doubt a consideration for Disney/Lucasfilm at the corporate level since they receive royalties from all of their licensees. But I don't think it steers the decision making process regarding film releases. A theatrical release will gross the studio over $1 billion in ticket sales these days. That's much bigger money than the merchandise will ever yield.
We've seen product/figure lines that didn't necessarily line up with their entertainment releases... The Force Unleashed anyone? But I fully expect any new movie product to be linked with the release of that movie. In the case of the Han Solo movie? You're probably not going to be getting a figure of that Paul Bettany character any time soon, since he just replaced Michael K Williams in reshoots.
As for Episode IX? I'm glad to see that they have a writer like Chris Terrio on board. Argo was really good, and frankly a significant challenge to adapt into a feature film. The process of adapting a true story for film can sometimes be even tougher than a work of fiction. Especially when you think about the crazy circumstances surrounding the story of those Americans that hid out in the Canadian ambassadors house. And when you also take into account that Terrio had to write for actors like Alan Arkin and John Goodman? This guy can write for good performers. So I am very interested to see how Terrio might exert some influence on E9.
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What the films need is a guiding force, within the context of the films, and that person seems to be Rian Johnson. He gets it. There's no issues with TLJ and he's most likely going to take over IX. I think that's great. What the films need is stability and continuity.
I couldn't disagree with this more. Rian has completely blown up the stability and continuity in the SW universe.
- Space Battles are fought with gravity bombs and hyperspace kamikazes
- Huge capital ships used to be faster than smaller transports, not now
- Hyperspace travel can now be tracked, instead of a major route of escape
- Jedi have all new powers like flying through space or projecting themselves to other planets
- Force Ghosts can impact real-world changes instead of just being a guiding voice
- Jedi can randomly choose to become one with the force instead of dying from a wound or old age
- Siener TIE Fighters and Incom X-Wings are now made by the same company
- Droids were inferior to human fighters, now exponentially superior (BB8)
There's a massive lack of continuity in this movie. I would love to see the franchise move back towards OTC, Rogue One, TFA formats versus this imperative that we have to blow up old concepts and redesign how everything works in order to shock people. Shock and awe are no substitute for good storytelling.
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What the films need is a guiding force, within the context of the films, and that person seems to be Rian Johnson. He gets it. There's no issues with TLJ and he's most likely going to take over IX. I think that's great. What the films need is stability and continuity.
I couldn't disagree with this more. Rian has completely blown up the stability and continuity in the SW universe.
- Space Battles are fought with gravity bombs and hyperspace kamikazes
- Huge capital ships used to be faster than smaller transports, not now
- Hyperspace travel can now be tracked, instead of a major route of escape
- Jedi have all new powers like flying through space or projecting themselves to other planets
- Force Ghosts can impact real-world changes instead of just being a guiding voice
- Jedi can randomly choose to become one with the force instead of dying from a wound or old age
- Siener TIE Fighters and Incom X-Wings are now made by the same company
- Droids were inferior to human fighters, now exponentially superior (BB8)
There's a massive lack of continuity in this movie. I would love to see the franchise move back towards OTC, Rogue One, TFA formats versus this imperative that we have to blow up old concepts and redesign how everything works in order to shock people. Shock and awe are no substitute for good storytelling.
I think you are off on a few points. I don't think the revelations from Canto Bight are saying Siener and Incom are the same company, just that they can have one person backing both companies in a respect. I don't think the stolen shuttle was owned by a guy who owned both companies, but had an interest in both or was selling arms produced by both companies. Much the same way the Banking Clan was financing both the Republic and the CIS at one point.
I don't think Luke "randomly" became one with the Force. He looks rather pained at the end. I got the impression that the Force projection put too much strain on him and his system couldn't handle it. To me it looked like he may have had a heart attack.
The BB-8 thing may have been a bit much, but that wasn't a blanket statement that the battle droids should have won the Clone Wars. He is just one droid and he took control of an AT-ST.
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- Space Battles are fought with gravity bombs and hyperspace kamikazes
I guess the Visual Dicctonary covers the bombs in some capacity, but without that explanation, what about the TIE Bombers in the asteroid field dropping bombs? I think this is fairly easy stuff to explain away with just saying they're pushed out and inertia carries them even. I've seen this come up in other complaints though as a general complaint regarding the new movie(s) though and my first thought was ESB with the TIE Bombers.
I personally loved this idea of "heavy bombers" compared to fighter-bombers from the OT we were used to. I'd always wondered if there was such a thing in Star Wars, or if it'd ever make sense, and for me this was a good example of how the concept could work. They're somewhere below capital ships but above fighters in size. I liked it a lot.
Regarding the hyperspace Kamikaze, it was visually great, but it does open some questions like why it wasn't ever used before.
- Huge capital ships used to be faster than smaller transports, not now
I'm not sure what you meant here... In Jedi, capital ships are painfully slow. In the opening of ROTS, capital ships are again painfully slow. They're the earth equivalent of large battleships. I never got the impression from the past films that the Destroyers and Mon Cal Cruisers could outrun the old Rebel Transports, or even smaller class capital ships like Corvettes necessarilly, Hammerheads, or whatever. It's even a basic building block of most of the video games that surrounded space fighting, that smaller ships are generally somewhat faster than larger ships, or at least can keep pace.
The entire "slow speed chase" thing I thought was maybe not the most exciting for the big screen but it was also similar to naval warfare on Earth, and I thought the notion of gun range was interesting too and added to it. It almost felt like Hux was toying with them by letting them run out of fuel because they didn't have options but to run.
- Hyperspace travel can now be tracked, instead of a major route of escape
I was with you on this except someone I know mentioned to me Vader tracking the Falcon to Yavin IV... It's similar, unless the Falcon went sublight all the way to Yavin IV, but I was pretty sure canon says it didn't. I'm not too sure on that though, but I kinda agreed on this. I didn't like them doing away with hypering out as a good way to get away. Likewise I was thinking, how did the Avenger track the Tantive IV... Tracking through hyperspace has happened before, somehow.
- Jedi have all new powers like flying through space or projecting themselves to other planets
Is it "flying through space", or did she, rather than "lift" something, instead pulled herself towards something (IE: the cruiser)? Leia having some force ability was interesting I thought, and this establishing it beyond being able to connect with Luke across the galaxy was something I actually kind of enjoyed seeing. It seemed like in TFA she didn't have any force ability.
- Force Ghosts can impact real-world changes instead of just being a guiding voice
I'm thinking you meant the tree and Yoda, but I can't say that upended much myself.
- Jedi can randomly choose to become one with the force instead of dying from a wound or old age
Maybe at Luke's age, the battle did kill him... maybe it took too much out of him and he knew it would end that way for him?
- Siener TIE Fighters and Incom X-Wings are now made by the same company
This popped into my head too, but both Sienar and Incom had many factories, and assuming a galactic conglomerate is not much different than a big company on Earth contracting factories who work with other companies making competing things... I think this is totally believable. Just as one example, Ryobi and Craftsman, and DeWalt power tools can and often are made in the same factory. It happens.
Maybe the guy who owned that ship made their repulsor units, or a circuit board both required even? Who knows. It could be more or less complex than it appeared. I can't say it really bothered me much, but I noticed it too.
- Droids were inferior to human fighters, now exponentially superior (BB8)
Maybe AT-STs aren't hard to control... Chewbacca drives one pretty easily, assuming he never has before. Granted he's not a droid, but droids fly hover tanks and other things in the prequals, and I assume BB8 can fly an X-Wing (R2 could). I dunno. It was a "BB8 saves the day" moment and again that's ok by me. It didn't make all droids vastly superior to humans, at least not to me, when I watched it. It's like R2's escape from the SBDs or whatever. Droids being heroes and doing unlikely stuff. Poe did call him one of a kind, I guess. :-\
I'm not arguing that a lot of that stuff isn't different though... This movie was different compared to the past, in many ways. In other ways it was also very similar... I see people's points on it being different and new, for better or worse depending who you talk to of course.
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- Siener TIE Fighters and Incom X-Wings are now made by the same company
This popped into my head too, but both Sienar and Incom had many factories, and assuming a galactic conglomerate is not much different than a big company on Earth contracting factories who work with other companies making competing things... I think this is totally believable. Just as one example, Ryobi and Craftsman, and DeWalt power tools can and often are made in the same factory. It happens.
Maybe the guy who owned that ship made their repulsor units, or a circuit board both required even? Who knows. It could be more or less complex than it appeared. I can't say it really bothered me much, but I noticed it too.
Third party resellers exist in all industries. They work with a manufacturer to get their products on the market and sold. Presumably, the person who owned the shuttle that DJ stole could just be a reseller who makes money reselling fighters made by both Sienar and Incom - he gets a discount from both manufacturers and sells them at a comparable price as getting it direct from the manufacturer and gets to keep the mark-up for himself as profit.
At the end of the day, what DJ was trying to show Finn was that there is a segment of the galaxy's population who make serious bank from there being a conflict. Money they would NOT be making if the galaxy was at peace.
Unfortunately, the same can be said within our own country and has been documented, especially during the Bush/Haliburton era.
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Han brags about outrunning Imperial Starships. That would imply they are fairly fast. The Tantive IV also cannot speed away from Vader's Destroyer despite it's speed. I'm not a SW tech expert, but I have also clung to the idea that capital ships are faster in a straight line direction, just not as maneuverable... in the same way that a battleship could overtake a fishing boat if they're on the same path as they are here. If that's not the case, why wouldn't Han just fly away from the Empire when fleeing Hoth?
In prior films, I don't think they've tracked ships through hyperspace. They've analyzed the direction the departing ships have taken, then with some time and calculations determined likely destinations based on possible hyperspace routes. That's more logical to me anyway, and I would guess given the rebels surprise in this movie that it's new tech.
Leia having force abilities that strong when she displays virtually no abilities prior is what I have an issue with. When something is radically different than history has shown its a continuity bump, which is why I provided it as an example.
Yoda and the lightning on the tree is a massive change in continuity. Have we seen a force ghost impact the real world beyond their voice, ever? Heck, I haven't see a live Jedi create a lightning streak, let alone dead a dead one. Even the Sith have to shoot lightning from their hands. If Yoda can impact the real world in that way, he could strike down Snoke on his own.
Maybe I didn't explain my issue with Luke's death very well. I think it's absolutely okay that he dies from the strain of his force projection. I would have been fine if the camera rolled back to him as he returned to his body and the cloak vanished. But as I recall, he looks worn out, then recomposes himself and sits on the rock watching the twin suns, very much looking better than he did initially. Then he vapes. That's just poor execution.
Cross off the ship where an investor has money in both rebel and imperial tech. It's not that big of an issue for me - just another example of changing what we had previously known. There are back stories on the designers for these ships and where they come from, but I forgot that's all Legends material now that Disney took over.
The point with BB8 was that it was just over the top. If droids are so good at piloting ships, then why not man the rebel bombers with droids or have a fleet of droid-flown X-wings? They were supposedly not on par with human skills or improvisation, which was a major plot point of an earlier movie. Making this droid so much more adept than a platoon of armed, trained troopers just flies in the face of that.
Really, any one of these is excusable on its own. For me its the sum of all these issues together that I found frustrating.
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Sorry you didn't like the movie, JediJman. I disagree with the idea continuity has been changed or altered in any way. There is no evidence for that at all, and many of your sticking points are extensions or extrapolations of ideas already established.
I'll try and tackle some of your points here (and some of the other VIII thread maybe) and give my two cents. I might cover some of the same ground as Jesse, but I've been thinking on this a little today.
Space Battles are fought with gravity bombs and hyperspace kamikazes
I know you're aware of the TIE Bombers. There's little in the SW universe that makes physical or logistical sense when it comes to the battles. The Battle of Endor makes no sense tactically, for example, but that's not why we watch it.
Your point on the hyperspace suicide plunge here and the other thread is a good one - it spotlights the problem inherent in some of these films. If this was available as an option, then realistically, Holdo should have done this as soon as she formulated her plan. She could have saved most of the fleet. But that's desperate. Also, we know from TFA that a ship at hyperspace can penetrate the shields of something on the scale of SKB. Why didn't this come up in TLJ? Finn/Rose could have gotten onto the Supremacy but performing the same maneuver. How do you start and stop like that, you say? Easy. You have Poe fly the ship. Everyone pukes, but you're through the shield and now everyone has a story and we're not arguing logistics in a space fantasy movie.
Huge capital ships used to be faster than smaller transports, not now
I'm willing to believe the Resistance cruisers are much faster at sub-light than FO ships, especially given the ridiculous size of nearly all their craft.
Hyperspace travel can now be tracked, instead of a major route of escape
I'm surprised this has never come up before. Hyperspace lanes in SW - well, some - are established routes that should make tracking easier than you'd think. I have no issue with this. The execution of solving the problem was one of my issues with the film.
Jedi have all new powers like flying through space or projecting themselves to other planets
These are not new powers. Re: Leia - she's clearly using the Force to pull herself toward the ship. Basically the reverse of any Jedi pulling their lightsaber to them. Projecting to another planet is something every Force Ghost has done every time they've appeared; the ghosts can appear on any planet anywhere in the galaxy. Luke does it while he's still alive, which means he's attained a power beyond any Jedi or Sith who has ever lived. That we know of. But he's Luke, so I'll say he's just that awesome.
Have we seen a force ghost impact the real world beyond their voice, ever?
Obi-Wan sat on a fallen tree in ROTJ.
You mentioned having an issue with Leia's ability in this film; we simply don't know what her level of ability is. TFA did not address it, outside of her sensing Han's death, and one may assume - all we can do - she explored some of her talent with Luke.
Jedi can randomly choose to become one with the force instead of dying from a wound or old age
This is easy to miss and I did on the first viewing; when Kylo and Rey first set up their Google Chat, he says she can't be the one initiating the link because the effort would kill her. The effort Luke exerted in projecting to Crait killed him.
Siener TIE Fighters and Incom X-Wings are now made by the same company
This is a real world analog, and given the political situation where the Resistance is a 'separate' party to the Republic it makes sense to me they are contracting out their arms to folks who most likely are also selling to the FO.
Droids were inferior to human fighters, now exponentially superior (BB8)
Might have goosed BB-8 too much in the movie, but I don't have a problem with him on the AT-ST for example. His entire purpose is to interface with other machines and R2 did effectively the same thing before.
My main issue with Luke's death - the first time I saw it - is that it steps on the toes of what is otherwise one of the greatest all time fake outs in film. His death is unnecessary to the plot. I accept it, I expected it and I found it more acceptable on repeated viewings. But I would have left him triumphant, and raising that X-Wing out of the water to join his sister.
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Well, to each their own. The ability to hyperspace into ships is a new concept. If Holdo was going to die anyway, why not do that from the start. Or try to ram a lead ship. If she's trying to distract the ships to follow her instead of the escapees, why not do a hyperspace jump to lead them away? It's equally silly to think that the imperials wouldn't notice a bunch of small craft leaving the ship they're closely following.
I don't know how you think resistance cruisers are "much faster" than FO Ships. The Rebels did not appear to be pulling away from the FO, so if anything large ships in the SW Universe all have a similar max speed.
I always assumed that previous "tracking" of hyperspace exists were based on calculations of the escape vector and likely destination points along that path. It takes time to calc and maybe isn't an option if the vector isn't tracked. Certainly it wouldn't be an option if a ship isn't there when a jump occurs. In this case, they seem to have some kind of long range radar tracking movement through hyperspace lanes. It's definitely new tech as they make a point of Rose saying, "that's new tech."
I don't mind some new powers. But Luke having a force projection that makes him look real is not remotely the same as a force ghost projection, since that clearly looks blue and transparent. Kylo used the force to stop laser bolts and read minds in TFA, so adding abilities isn't unprecidented. Leia using the force to keep her body alive in space is a little less believeable. She doesn't show much in the way of force ability ever before. I'm not a biology guy, but between the lack of oxygen to breathe, pressure of oxygen expanding to the vaccum of space, freezing temperatures, and the initiating explosion it's definitely a stretch to think anyone (even Luke) could survive, let alone someone less adept with the force. I don't mind her pulling her body back to the ship, but then they pop open the door to let her in without a magnetic shield or an airlock, which should have sucked people back out.
Obi-wan sitting on a tree is not the same as creating lightning. I can also sit on a tree - I can't create lightning. Another new power, this time for force ghosts. Goofy attitude Yoda is another departure from the more solemn and serious Yoda we see in the OT.
Not surprised that Luke died from the stress of his force projecting ability. I am surprised that he looked winded, then seemed to recover, sit on the rock cross legged, watch the twin suns setting, then vaped. Maybe he was dying all the while and using the force to keep him alive a few moments longer, it just didn't look like he was still declining when he suddenly vanishes. Change the scene to show Luke back on the island, injured from the stress, then vanishing into nothing and I'm much more accepting of what happened.
BB8 is equipped to interface with starships, not AT-STs from what I have seen. Regardless, his ability to take on swarms of troops would seem to indicate that a little droid could be far more effective than swarms of live troops. They could have had droids flying bombers and X-Wings if that were the case. But the whole point of AOTC was to show that humans are better fighters than droids, so showing the opposite of that is a change in the continuity/messaging for me.
Overall, there was too much of a departure from "known" Star Wars for me. Like I said, none of these are monumental shifts on their own, but combined they felt forced and just too over the top. It doesn't help my opinion that the overall plot isn't very plausible and the dialogue to help explain motivations and actions was lacking. But I'm really glad to hear that most people liked the movie. I've only seen it once and maybe it will grow on me with repeated viewings.
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I won't belabor any points, because it's clearly not your movie, but -
I can also sit on a tree - I can't create lightning.
You can't sit on a tree if you're dead, man.
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I won't belabor any points, because it's clearly not your movie, but -
I can also sit on a tree - I can't create lightning.
You can't sit on a tree if you're dead, man.
So a ghost can "walk" on ground, but can't sit in a tree?
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So where do you think Episode IX will pick up?
My guess is it will be at least 5 years down the road. It would give the rebels time to build up their forces to be a threat ala the original movie, and would also give them a chance to "kill" Leia off and have it be fitting. They could start the movie with the rebels eulogizing her....I think that would be a nice on screen tribute to Carrie Fischer.
It would also give Rey a chance to develop her Jedi training and even find broom kid and have an apprentice.
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So a ghost can "walk" on ground, but can't sit in a tree?
This is the point I'm making - they're already interacting with the physical world. They're imposing on it. They're impinging on it. Why would them summoning lighting be an issue, when they can manipulate physics to the point they can walk or sit on solid objects?
So where do you think Episode IX will pick up?
I'd actually love to see a big time jump too. Something akin to the jump between TPM and AOTC. I'd like to see a number of call backs to Episode I, if we're really rounding this out. Letting Leia pass between films I think is the only option. Rey could restart a nascent Jedi order, training new warriors (or just an apprentice - Finn?), but maybe not being so good at it given her own tutelage to this point. That would give Luke a place in the story, guiding her here or there. Unless he's just trolling Kylo. Which would be great.
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So where do you think Episode IX will pick up?
I'd actually love to see a big time jump too. Something akin to the jump between TPM and AOTC. I'd like to see a number of call backs to Episode I, if we're really rounding this out. Letting Leia pass between films I think is the only option. Rey could restart a nascent Jedi order, training new warriors (or just an apprentice - Finn?), but maybe not being so good at it given her own tutelage to this point. That would give Luke a place in the story, guiding her here or there. Unless he's just trolling Kylo. Which would be great.
This is a great question!
In some ways I actually really didn't like the fact that TLJ picked up minutes after TFA ended. I don't think stories need to be told in real time, and leaving space between movies allows for a viewer to believe that other personal growth has happened or other things have been put in to place. Without revealing too many spoilers I was a bit annoyed that the FO seemed so powerful in TLJ but in TFA seemed to be more of a less powerful fringe group with a superweapon.
I'd love to see some years put in place between 8 and 9 so the Rebellion can be magically built back up, Leia can die in some logical unseen way, Rey can get stronger in her force abilities / build a Jedi academy, etc.
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I'd like IX to end with some consideration of the overall story. So, some version of the Jedi back. The issue of balance addressed - maybe it already has been in Rey and Kylo. I don't want Kylo to be redeemed. I want him to keep leaning into his villainy and perhaps survive the finale. I don't know if I need a final resolution to the overall war. I suppose we understand it never ends at this point, and the point isn't that it ends but we always keep fighting for good. But there should be resolution for the characters.
For Kylo, maybe that could mean him becoming even more Vader like. Though it's hard to say if his destroying the Kylo mask is him also letting go of Vader, as much as he advocates throwing away the past writ large. So question mark there.
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Couple of thoughts I've had regarding the Force Users in EP9
- What if instead of building out a new Light-side order or having a Light-side user academy, Rey implements something similar to the "Rule of Two", so it would just be her and one other student or perhaps a pair of students?
- I think it would be also interesting if the term "Jedi" might also be pushed aside, similar to how the "Sith" has been pushed aside. We know that the Knights of Ren are still out there and from TLJ we learned that they were students from Luke's academy who left with Ben. So what if Rey starts an entirely new group or brings back the Guardians of the Whills and uses that name instead.
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Interesting. Very interesting.
Always two there are... I actually thought it was possible the Jedi would be set aside in this film for something else, the Whills like you said or something new. I think it's clear the Jedi will go on with Rey and her disciples, whether it's one or many. I like one, though.
Definitely need the see the Knights of Ren back, and maybe that's where her future temple comes from - she takes Luke's former students back from Kylo and the dark side, and leaves him alone, in darkness.
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Han brags about outrunning Imperial Starships. That would imply they are fairly fast. The Tantive IV also cannot speed away from Vader's Destroyer despite it's speed. I'm not a SW tech expert, but I have also clung to the idea that capital ships are faster in a straight line direction, just not as maneuverable... in the same way that a battleship could overtake a fishing boat if they're on the same path as they are here. If that's not the case, why wouldn't Han just fly away from the Empire when fleeing Hoth?
On the Hoth part, Han's outrunning the Imperial fighters, he's doing a lot of things (including finishing up his repairs), and essentially he does outrun the destroyers who are trying to pinch off between three, and they appear to be moving straight but incredibly slower compared to the Falcon, like not even close... So I've always just assumed Han's just trying to by time, get his coordinates and repairs in place, and "go". The destroyer's in those scenes, you can at least tell they're incredibly slow compared to Han and the Falcon.
On the "outrunning" line from ANH, he says he's outrun a very generic "Imperial Starships", not destroyers, and he cites bulk cruisers and things then... There are a lot of different classifications of capital ships though it seems, and that's not to different again from "real world" stuff... Both from the old EU, new canon, and everything in between, there are tons of capital ships of various designs and speeds... There have been some smaller, more "Falcon-ish" type Imperial ships introduced of late that give the Empire something sizable but speedy too, so maybe he's talking about fast, but larger craft we don't see? I never really took Han's lines to imply he was gloating about outrunning destroyers (or other very large ships) which, to me, always seemed tremendously slow on screen.
The Corvette not outrunning the Destroyer in ANH always could have some easy explanations too, especially if it's somehow tracked through hyperspace and they're surprised over Tatooine. Maybe the shots it took make its ability to outrun the Avenger impossible even? Or maybe a Destroyer and a Corvette aren't that terribly off in speed? I dunno. I just never saw anything on-screen to imply to me any of the larger ships were comparable in any way at all to the Falcon, and the "slow chase" of TLJ looked about right to me, if not (at all) exciting or interesting.
In prior films, I don't think they've tracked ships through hyperspace. They've analyzed the direction the departing ships have taken, then with some time and calculations determined likely destinations based on possible hyperspace routes. That's more logical to me anyway, and I would guess given the rebels surprise in this movie that it's new tech.
Leia says they're tracking the Falcon in ANH, and then Tarkin/Vader's subsequent discussion... It seems at least possible to be done if you place something on board a ship, but yeah I do tend to lean towards the tracking in TLJ being "new tech" to some degree. Then again cloaking was impossible supposedly in ANH, but in The Clone Wars it's possible and so there's precedent for what perceived tech is to be wrong. I can't say I'm a fan of Hyperspace being offed as an escape narrative though, and that's something I didn't care for in TLJ.
Leia having force abilities that strong when she displays virtually no abilities prior is what I have an issue with. When something is radically different than history has shown its a continuity bump, which is why I provided it as an example.
There's been virtually no history shown, of Leia, till this point... There's the 30 years or whatever from ROTJ to now that she could've filled her time learning something. Luke said in time she would, and she was old at this point so I assume she learned something... But I really felt like she was pulling herself to the ship, rather than "lifting" stuff or whatever. I don't look at it as quite as radical as everyone is making it out to be. I don't view her as "flying" or having some super power we've never seen, so much as she's just pulling herself towards the hull breach and back inside the ship to save her own life. Just how I viewed it though that maybe made it less fanciful to myself? But I mean, it's The Force so who knows what the hell she can or can't do, and it's been a long time she could've learned a lot.
Yoda and the lightning on the tree is a massive change in continuity. Have we seen a force ghost impact the real world beyond their voice, ever? Heck, I haven't see a live Jedi create a lightning streak, let alone dead a dead one. Even the Sith have to shoot lightning from their hands. If Yoda can impact the real world in that way, he could strike down Snoke on his own.
I see others have essentially answered this with what I would've... Ben's "I'll become more powerful than you can possibly imagine", and so on and so forth... The ghosts on Dagobah interacted physically with their surrounding (Ben moving stuff aside as he walked into view in ROTJ)... Is it powerful? Absolutely, but we really never see Yoda as a force ghost but a brief glimpse at the end of ROTJ. Likewise it seems like force ghosts can learn stuff, ala QGJ simply learning how to communicate. I mean, it just doesn't seem like a big issue that Yoda can do something to burn that tree down. Would it be more interesting if he used matches nearby? I guess I just didn't care about this much, and it was more about the point he's making to Luke in their exchange and stuff.
Maybe I didn't explain my issue with Luke's death very well. I think it's absolutely okay that he dies from the strain of his force projection. I would have been fine if the camera rolled back to him as he returned to his body and the cloak vanished. But as I recall, he looks worn out, then recomposes himself and sits on the rock watching the twin suns, very much looking better than he did initially. Then he vapes. That's just poor execution.
I liked it I guess and just saw it as the opposite. Maybe that he was making the conscious choice that he knew would kill him but would restore hope to the Resistance by giving them a chance to escape, and he accomplished that, and was dying, and poof. I mean, Luke getting back to Yoda just in time for him to die is probably equally poor execution for Yoda's end then too when you think about it. Is he able to hold on just till he sees Luke, then go to sleep forever? I thought Luke's was kind of nice really, like Yoda's in a way, that he knew his time was up and he watched the suns set as he faded away.
Cross off the ship where an investor has money in both rebel and imperial tech. It's not that big of an issue for me - just another example of changing what we had previously known. There are back stories on the designers for these ships and where they come from, but I forgot that's all Legends material now that Disney took over.
Actually I think it's back in canon after Rebels, but I already had my opinion on that with the manufacturers or whatever... I didn't read a ton into it ruining established EU stuff I guess, and the Incom/Sienar background has always been something I enjoyed too, for what it was.
The point with BB8 was that it was just over the top. If droids are so good at piloting ships, then why not man the rebel bombers with droids or have a fleet of droid-flown X-wings? They were supposedly not on par with human skills or improvisation, which was a major plot point of an earlier movie. Making this droid so much more adept than a platoon of armed, trained troopers just flies in the face of that.
Can't really disagree with this opinion. I just looked at it as a hero droid doing hero droid things. Like R2 does heroic things... But it was kind of crazy. It wasn't crazy enough for me to care I guess maybe. I don't think AT-ST's are absurdly complex things really but at the same time, can BB8 just hop in one and drive it? He can precision open up a billion little hands to plug bad resistors, so I don't know if driving an AT-ST is beyond him, but maybe it should be. I was more meh that 3PO and R2-D2 do nothing and I can't see Star Wars rolling on with just shelving these two characters completely. That just bugs me more maybe.
I can totally see the sum of all these things, if they annoy you, influencing opinion on the overall film... I never really thought about any of these things as bad, myself, obviously.
My gripes, and I found them minor...
-The humor... While I appreciate DIsney trying to bring humor to a more modern age and audience in Star Wars, I found some of it a little too much.
-Canto Bight... Again, this was a long film (152 minutes I think?) and CB was such BS for the most part. It was reinforcing a broader point and all that, and unless there's some expansion upon that in Episode 9 in some way, I don't see the entire thing on Canto Bight as mostly pointless.
-DJ... I'd have rather seen Rose used as the character that somehow gets them on the Destroyer with Finn's help and again, truncate the CB stuff. Save the $ you paid Benicio Del Toro to basically have a cameo to stutter and make a point about war profiteering them fly off to nothingness.
-CB should've had Lando... If you're gonna give a Lando cameo he would've been nice to see on, or related to Canto Bight in some way. Maybe they contact him for the outside help, whatever. I would've liked to see Lando appear in some way.
I have my complaints but they're minor I guess, and the things I see fairly often as complaints by others I feel like those are things that aren't a big deal. I don't really feel like The Force has established parameters though, and that seems like a major sticking point for many people with TLJ. I feel like, since Clone Wars, Lucas and LFL were setting it up that The Force has more to it than we've seen, and we're now here. I dunno though. I'm going back to see it Saturday with the kids and gf, so I'm kinda curious how it is upon a 2nd viewing since it seems a lot of people have to see it twice to form more solid opinions on it. I'm kinda curious if my thoughts are going to change much after a 2nd round of TLJ.
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-CB should've had Lando... If you're gonna give a Lando cameo he would've been nice to see on, or related to Canto Bight in some way. Maybe they contact him for the outside help, whatever. I would've liked to see Lando appear in some way.
Wow. This would have been awesome.
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-CB should've had Lando... If you're gonna give a Lando cameo he would've been nice to see on, or related to Canto Bight in some way. Maybe they contact him for the outside help, whatever. I would've liked to see Lando appear in some way.
Wow. This would have been awesome.
I disagree on the Lando front. Mostly from the perspective that the people in Canto Bight represent this arms dealing elite that made their fortune by equipping the First Order. That seems out of character with Lando, at least post-ROTJ.
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So a ghost can "walk" on ground, but can't sit in a tree?
This is the point I'm making - they're already interacting with the physical world. They're imposing on it. They're impinging on it. Why would them summoning lighting be an issue, when they can manipulate physics to the point they can walk or sit on solid objects?
Interacting with the physical world is very different than impacting it. A force ghost can walk or sit because that's the way they wish to appear or how the person interacting with them sees it unfold. That's so incredibly different from the physical world changing because of their presence. You don't hear twigs break or water swishing as ghost Obi walks through the swamp. And to go so far beyond that as to create lightning in the air, something live Jedi can't do, is a clear departure from what previous movies have shown.
If you're okay with new force powers, then just say you're okay with new force powers, but it is ridiculous to argue that this is remotely similar to anything we've seen before.
I think Episode IX will focus on a turd floating down the river and fanboys will gush over how original it is to focus on Star Wars poop.
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I think Episode IX will focus on a turd floating down the river and fanboys will gush over how original it is to focus on Star Wars poop.
Yep Justin. This is what all us morons who liked this movie will be duped by because we will like anything. Thanks for that.
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If you're okay with new force powers, then just say you're okay with new force powers, but it is ridiculous to argue that this is remotely similar to anything we've seen before.
Why would lightning be your line in the sand? How can you believe the Force moves through people, and interacts with all living things, and binds the entire universe together and the most powerful agents of that force can't use it?
What?
There is no functional difference in what Yoda did with the lightning than simply appearing to Luke at all. If you want to argue physics, then the entire saga is going to collapse.
Saying that there can't be new introductions of Force powers would be to invalidate the actual emergence of the ghosts in the first place, as well as Sith lightning, or Force Speed or whatever that was in TPM. The stronger a person is in the Force, living or dead and the dead seem to have something over the living, the more the Force seems to open to them. If the idea of that is impossible to you, then I would think the entire story would be. And therein lies the problem.
As you've said elsewhere, you want the films to be the original films. You want them to more like what you've seen, and that's cool. It's fatal for SW, but that's your take. I don't need to live in 1977. I don't need another Death Star, I don't need another X-Wing vs. TIE battle and I don't need the same **** played out again and again. I want to see SW grow, I want to see it thrive and I want to see it live. If Yoda came back in a physical body and was like Back I am, I would have had a serious issue. I have no issue with building on what's been established and taking things in new directions. Doesn't mean that every decision these new filmmakers is right, because they're not, but the risks are worth taking.
And that's the bottom line.
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Yep Justin. This is what all us morons who liked this movie will be duped by because we will like anything. Thanks for that.
Didn't mean for my sarcastic remark to be a blanket statement about everyone who liked the movie, Nick, so apologies if it was interpreted that way by you. It was geared towards people who can't find any fault with the film and will defend the most basic criticisms because they're unwilling to admit that anything Star Wars could possibly be less than perfect. Like I Said before, I'm happy for those that really are happy with the way the movie turned out as I'd much rather be feeling that way myself.
If you're okay with new force powers, then just say you're okay with new force powers, but it is ridiculous to argue that this is remotely similar to anything we've seen before.
Why would lightning be your line in the sand? How can you believe the Force moves through people, and interacts with all living things, and binds the entire universe together and the most powerful agents of that force can't use it?
What?
There is no functional difference in what Yoda did with the lightning than simply appearing to Luke at all. If you want to argue physics, then the entire saga is going to collapse.
Well, as you might not recall this whole strand of conversation started because I disagreed that Rian Johnson was the perfect choice to keep the continuity going. Continuity is the unbroken and consistent existence or operation of something over a period of time. Force Ghosts are not shown to impact the physical world in any way beyond a spiritual presence and voice leading up to this movie. Jedi (alive or dead) or even Sith cannot cause a lightning strike from the sky as though they were Thor in any previous rendering of Star Wars. Like it or hate it, it is inconsistent with what we have previously seen, ergo not keeping up with the continuity.
Kind of done arguing about it. If you see it differently, more power to you.
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I dunno....just because we haven't seen it before, doesn't mean it can't happen. What's the difference in manifesting lightning from your fingers as opposed to a cloud above you? This just didn't bother me all that much.
I enjoyed the movie much more on my second viewing opposed to my first. Not that I didn't enjoy the movie the first tie, but there was a lot to process and the second viewing helped a lot with that.
I'm guessing that my 7 year old and I will find time to sneak out of the house and catch it again over the Christmas break. :D
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I dunno....just because we haven't seen it before, doesn't mean it can't happen. What's the difference in manifesting lightning from your fingers as opposed to a cloud above you? This just didn't bother me all that much.
The difference is that you could essentially blast anything from anywhere as a force ghost, so why not get more involved in fighting the dark side? Yoda could have force lightning blasted Snoke much earlier to save lives or hit Ben before he killed Han if it's so easily done. We only see Sith use lightning in previous movies as well, which makes it appear to be more of a dark side power. Would you be okay with Jedi having the ability to burst into flames and fly? Or maybe breathe underwater and summon giant sea creatures to their aide? How about a Jedi that could shoot webs and climb ceilings? I could accept some of Kylo's new tricks in TFA, but these (particularly Yoda's) just push the limit for me.
Try it from this angle: think about the ramifications of what this means. Jedi are peacekeepers who continuously get involved with the happenings of the galaxy, intervening to save lives and fight evil. As a force ghost where you can appear once in a while to offer guidance, they continue to help living Jedi (mainly Luke) serve the light side. But if a force ghost can impact the real world with their force powers, why wouldn't they continue doing the very thing they've dedicated their lives to while they were alive? Why wouldn't you smite down Palpatine or Snoke with those powers? Or at least deflect blasts that are blowing up rebels or killing innocents? Would it make any sense to dedicate your life to peace and justice, then in death just kind of sit around watching things unfold when you could be doing something about it? Just doesn't make sense to me.
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Kind of done arguing about it.
You are?
Hey, man I get it. You don't like it. That's cool. I have zero stake in what you don't like. What I love about Star Wars is it's something people can discuss from all kinds of perspectives. And we can all agree or disagree, on whatever it is. But you're in here throwing shade at people in the thread. You're explaining what continuity is to me. I appreciate you think I don't know.
Your point about the narrative consequences of the Force ghost's powers - et al - is a good one. I maybe would have started there. Retaining one's identity in the Force seems to be a (relatively) recent development in AGFFA; there are unlikely to be any rules or guidelines around its use. This would be a worthwhile topic to explore in another film, or maybe some of the other media.
TLJ suggests that Yoda and Luke have not seen each other in a very long time. Since ROTJ? If not, why? Does Yoda believe it's not his place to intervene? Didn't stop Obi-Wan. These are worthwhile questions.
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The difference is that you could essentially blast anything from anywhere as a force ghost, so why not get more involved in fighting the dark side? Yoda could have force lightning blasted Snoke much earlier to save lives or hit Ben before he killed Han if it's so easily done. We only see Sith use lightning in previous movies as well, which makes it appear to be more of a dark side power. Would you be okay with Jedi having the ability to burst into flames and fly? Or maybe breathe underwater and summon giant sea creatures to their aide? How about a Jedi that could shoot webs and climb ceilings? I could accept some of Kylo's new tricks in TFA, but these (particularly Yoda's) just push the limit for me.
Try it from this angle: think about the ramifications of what this means. Jedi are peacekeepers who continuously get involved with the happenings of the galaxy, intervening to save lives and fight evil. As a force ghost where you can appear once in a while to offer guidance, they continue to help living Jedi (mainly Luke) serve the light side. But if a force ghost can impact the real world with their force powers, why wouldn't they continue doing the very thing they've dedicated their lives to while they were alive? Why wouldn't you smite down Palpatine or Snoke with those powers? Or at least deflect blasts that are blowing up rebels or killing innocents? Would it make any sense to dedicate your life to peace and justice, then in death just kind of sit around watching things unfold when you could be doing something about it? Just doesn't make sense to me.
I look at good/evil uses of the force boil down to intent. Summoning force lightning to electrocute a boy who refuses to kill his father: Bad; summoning force lightening to incinerate an old dead tree: not bad. Remember, there are only three Jedi who have figured out how to return as force ghosts....they might feel that they are now more of a guide than an active participant. Obi-Wan point blank tells Luke in Empire that if he choses to face Vader he cannot interfere.
TLJ suggests that Yoda and Luke have not seen each other in a very long time. Since ROTJ? If not, why?
My interpretation was that since Luke had cut himself off from the force, Yoda and Obi-Wan could not communicate with him.
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Saying that there can't be new introductions of Force powers would be to invalidate the actual emergence of the ghosts in the first place, as well as Sith lightning, or Force Speed or whatever that was in TPM.
For that matter, aside from slight precognition and communicating after death, ALL force powers introduced from ESB onward are "crapping on the original" notions of what the force is.
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My interpretation was that since Luke had cut himself off from the force, Yoda and Obi-Wan could not communicate with him.
Good point. A line to clarify wold have helped a lot in that scene, which really is just about perfect. I'm sure we'll find out for sure down the line.
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My interpretation was that since Luke had cut himself off from the force, Yoda and Obi-Wan could not communicate with him.
Good point. A line to clarify wold have helped a lot in that scene, which really is just about perfect. I'm sure we'll find out for sure down the line.
Rey had said that Luke had cut himself off from the Force, though. Did it really need to be reiterated for the sake of the scene with Yoda?
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Probably not, but Luke cut himself off from the Force after Ben turned. Hazy as to when this happened exactly, but the Bloodline book makes it out to be only five or six years before TFA. If that's the case, then I wonder - and it's just me maybe - did Yoda/Obi-Wan/Anakin visit with Luke in the time leading up to that? I'm curious about it, especially Anakin.
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Saying that there can't be new introductions of Force powers would be to invalidate the actual emergence of the ghosts in the first place, as well as Sith lightning, or Force Speed or whatever that was in TPM.
For that matter, aside from slight precognition and communicating after death, ALL force powers introduced from ESB onward are "crapping on the original" notions of what the force is.
Well, I don't think anyone including myself said there can't be new force powers. I said a few times now that I was fine with them in E7. E8 powers were too much of a stretch for me, Mary Poppins Leia and Yoda Lightning in particular. As for previous movies, the prequels happen before the OT when there are thousands of Jedi, so wouldn't it make more sense to see some variety in powers given the vastly larger sample of those with abilities? I mean, we just have two old Jedi, a guy in training, and one bad guy who is mostly robot to base anything on by the end of Empire.
At the end of the day, this isn't a real universe, so we can find a way to support or criticize any of the "truths" and sequences in each new movie. I guess my disappointment is in the choices that were made to purposely break from previous notions of what the force is and how its wielded,as well as in the way that those decisions were executed. You don't need to have Yoda throwing lightning around like he's Thor - you could have had that scene take place during a thunder storm and had lightning blast the tree for example. Maybe they leave you speculating whether Yoda did it or not? The more I think through the movie the more I'm convinced that Rian either didn't solicit input from anyone else or they were just in such a hurry that they didn't have time to think through different options.
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There are rumors about an OT actor who is currently working on getting in shape (https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2018/05/billy-dee-williams-is-getting-into-shape-with-a-workout-and-new-diet.html). Could they return for Episode IX? It's definitely worthy of discussion.
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Sorry. I will be boycotting this movie. I figure it'll get Kathleen Kennedy fired. I have to miss a Star Wars movie and not know how the Sequel Trilogy ends, but it's worth it since I assume I'll get a call from Walt's head itself to have me approve all Star Wars scripts going forward. Then I can once again enjoy Star Wars.
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;D
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Sorry. I will be boycotting this movie. I figure it'll get Kathleen Kennedy fired. I have to miss a Star Wars movie and not know how the Sequel Trilogy ends, but it's worth it since I assume I'll get a call from Walt's head itself to have me approve all Star Wars scripts going forward. Then I can once again enjoy Star Wars.
I heard that Bob Iger has been lurking the forum and subscribed to this thread. Stand your ground proudly!
;D
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Billy Dee Williams might be coming back as Lando for Episode IX.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-billy-dee-williams-returning-as-lando-calrissian-xi-1125818 (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-billy-dee-williams-returning-as-lando-calrissian-xi-1125818)
I guess they need another original trilogy character to kill off.
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He was at the Colorado Springs Comic Con last year and they wanted people to sign an online petition to get him on the cast. I figured he'd make an appearance at some point.
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Official Cast Announcement (https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-ix-cast-announced), confirms filming starts next week!
LEIA ->
The role of Leia Organa will once again be played by Carrie Fisher, using previously unreleased footage shot for Star Wars: The Force Awakens. “We desperately loved Carrie Fisher,” says Abrams. “Finding a truly satisfying conclusion to the Skywalker saga without her eluded us. We were never going to recast, or use a CG character. With the support and blessing from her daughter, Billie, we have found a way to honor Carrie’s legacy and role as Leia in Episode IX by using unseen footage we shot together in Episode VII.”
Also...
Returning cast members include Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, John Boyega, Oscar Isaac, Lupita Nyong’o, Domhnall Gleeson, Kelly Marie Tran, Joonas Suotamo, and Billie Lourd. Joining the cast of Episode IX are Naomi Ackie and Richard E. Grant, who will be joined by veteran Star Wars actors Mark Hamill, Anthony Daniels, and Billy Dee Williams, who will reprise his role as Lando Calrissian.
So, Luke and Leia in Ep9 after all it seems...
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I am cautiously optimistic about the footage from TFA, knowing what some of it is, but mostly I am glad that they found a way to include her. I was not looking forward to an off screen death or RO digital type cameo at the end or something.
Very happy to know she's going to be in the movie.
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I'm glad to see this announcement. Like a lot of fans, I think that I've been anxious about how this film would be able to bring us a proper sense of closure for the story of Leia. Unused footage seems like a reasonable approach, especially since so much material can wind up on the proverbial cutting room floor (even in the era of Avid editing). The question is though, how can footage from Episode 7 serve the story of Episode 9?
It's good to see confirmation that Billy Dee Williams is returning as Lando. He's one of the few principles left from the OT, and I hope that he's one of the "allies" in the Outer Rim that was referred to in Episode 8. And despite all of the press surrounding Mark Hamill's reaction to how Luke was characterized in TLJ, he is listed in the cast here, and it must be as a Force spirit.
The one name I was surprised to not see listed? Benecio del Toro. Are we not going to see the return of DJ?
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I really hope they put some time between E8 and E9 so the characters have time to grow off camera. I think Rey and Kylo Ren could both use some time to justify growth.
I was kinda hoping they would use a time gap like this to kill off Leia and just mention it in dialog. I suppose they could still do this ad have her shuttle ambushed and use some old footage to show her on a resistance shuttle.
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The question is though, how can footage from Episode 7 serve the story of Episode 9?
Pure speculation, but the most significant scene I can think of involving Leia from TFA that we never saw involves Maz delivering the lightsaber to her. We see a glimpse of this in the Celebration Teaser. I think it's unlikely actual scenes will be grafted into IX though, considering the narrative challenges, but I think this is probably somewhere they're drawing from. I imagine also that they may simply use footage but generate new dialogue, either through recorded sound of her left unused or dubbing.
I expected an off screen death and a funeral and I didn't want that. I didn't want a three movie wake for my OT heroes. I'm glad it's this way, even if it's not perfect. I'm glad because they won't bring her back to kill her off. She's going to survive the movie, and I can't think of anything better that Leia lives, and goes on fighting.
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Weren't there also scenes of her trying to track down Poe and sending a delegation to the Republic looking for more help? I seem to remember that from the novelization. Not that I can begin to figure out how to use those moments post-TLJ, either...
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Weren't there also scenes of her trying to track down Poe and sending a delegation to the Republic looking for more help? I seem to remember that from the novelization. Not that I can begin to figure out how to use those moments post-TLJ, either...
I saw images from a scene that Leia was supposed to have with Kor Sella in TFA. That actually preceded the reveal of Leia as she was getting off the Resistance Transport on Takodana. But evidently JJ Abrams wanted the reveal of Leia to coincide with her reunion with Han Solo. I think it may have actually been in the deleted scened, but it had Leia sending Kor off to Hosnian Prime to get assistance from the Republic in opposition to the First Order. But of course Kor Sella was waiting in terror as the Starkiller fired Hosnian Prime in TFA, destroying the Republic Capitol.
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Yep, the scene with Kor is on the DVD. Don't think this is where they source from, but really who knows. It could be a simple scene or exchange, and she's only present for a brief moment.
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Returning cast members include Daisy Ridley, Adam Driver, John Boyega, Oscar Isaac, Lupita Nyong’o, Domhnall Gleeson, Kelly Marie Tran, Joonas Suotamo, and Billie Lourd. Joining the cast of Episode IX are Naomi Ackie and Richard E. Grant, who will be joined by veteran Star Wars actors Mark Hamill, Anthony Daniels, and Billy Dee Williams, who will reprise his role as Lando Calrissian.
I see that SW.com updated the original story to include Keri Russell officially now - "Joining the cast of Episode IX are Naomi Ackie, Richard E. Grant, and Keri Russell"
As a fan of The Americans TV show, I'm pretty excited to see her in this movie. Hopefully she gets to do more than Holdo did. :)
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So will Grant play Grand Admiral Thrawn in Episode IX?
https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/998547/Star-Wars-Episode-9-Thrawn-Richard-E-Grant-cast-characters (https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/998547/Star-Wars-Episode-9-Thrawn-Richard-E-Grant-cast-characters)
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As much as I'd like to see Gran Admiral Thrawn portrayed in a movie....I'd rather not see him in Episode IX....he's be over 100 years old. Do Chiss even live that long?
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Well the last time we saw him he was taken away by space whales. Maybe he has been in a time warp with Bridger?
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So will Grant play Grand Admiral Thrawn in Episode IX?
https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/998547/Star-Wars-Episode-9-Thrawn-Richard-E-Grant-cast-characters (https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/998547/Star-Wars-Episode-9-Thrawn-Richard-E-Grant-cast-characters)
LOL, Express. Last time it was Benicio...
Is Benicio del Toro playing THRAWN in The Last Jedi?
https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/785604/Star-Wars-8-Benicio-del-Toro-THRAWN-The-Last-Jedi-Rebels-Ezra-Bridger-Man-in-Black
Before that, it was Ben Mendelson...
Is Ben Mendelson playing Admiral Thrawn?
https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/659003/Star-Wars-Rogue-One-new-trailer-felicity-jones-ben-mendelson-Anthology
Keep throwing **** against the wall and eventually something's gonna stick.... ::)
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I hear through motion capture technology he is playing the bottom half of Darth Maul that didn't actually die.
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I hear through motion capture technology he is playing the bottom half of Darth Maul that didn't actually die.
Dave wins the internet for today.
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It’s like the “Stan” method of rumor reporting for toys!
Btw if the bottom half of Maul just runs around to the Benny Hill theme in 9 I’m happy with that.
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I listened to MSW's most recent podcast and they were discussing the cut footage of Leia in TFA. Evidently there was a fair amount of footage shot of Leia where Maz returned the lightsaber to Leia. We saw that in the trailer, and it was also intended to be in the movie. Maz returns the lightsaber to Leia, and Leia came to the conclusion that maybe Finn is the person who should take the lightsaber and passed it along to him. However, when Harrison Ford got injured on set there was some significant retooling of the second act, including that scene. The MSW guys also mentioned that there might be some unused footage from TLJ that could get incorporated, too.
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Following the main cast announcement there have been some additional bits of casting news:
THR: Dominic Monaghan Joins 'Star Wars: Episode IX' (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-episode-ix-casts-dominic-monaghan-1137403)
VARIETY: ‘Star Wars: Episode IX’ Casts Matt Smith in Key Role (https://variety.com/2018/film/news/star-wars-episode-ix-matt-smith-1202886507/)
Bringing in Monaghan reunited JJ Abrams with one of the cast of 'Lost'. And Matt Smith is certainly no stranger to genre material having been the lead in Dr. Who.
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Which one is going to be Thrawn? :D
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Which one is going to be Thrawn? :D
They both are.
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One will be the lower half and the other will be the upper half.
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I love you guys. ;D
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Bringing in Monaghan reunited JJ Abrams with one of the cast of 'Lost'. And Matt Smith is certainly no stranger to genre material having been the lead in Dr. Who.
What is the count up to now 3?
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There is news of an Episode 9 filming location (https://en.royanews.tv/news/16067/2018-11-27), and it's one that has been used before for a Star Wars standalone film.
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At least the backdrops will be nice.
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At least the backdrops will be nice.
Bah! It was already done in the 60's in Lawrence of Arabia...
;)
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Maybe they left the giant Jedi statue laying there.
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I have a few friends who go to Disney World a few times a year and one of them shared this with me tonight... thanks Jim! Awesome stuff. Lots of details.
https://d23.com/galaxys-edge-announcements/
Really neat stuff and I hope I’m able to do the resort experience some day in the future. It’s a lot of $ to blow on myself but it’s definitely a bucket list thing for me at this point.
Spoiler alert??? I assume the "Black Spire Outpost" location and some of the stuff they're building at Disney Galaxy's Edge is tied in directly with Episode 9.
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Not really sure on that. It's been mentioned in comics and books so far, but I hadn't read anything that specifically mentioned it tying directly to Episode 9 I guess. I didn't read that whole article either though, just skimmed it and was looking at the droid things and food, some of the costumes for the people at the studio... I didn't catch E9 mentions.
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Looks like a character collage and poster has been leaked.
https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2019/03/star-wars-episode-ix-poster-and-character-collage-image-leaked-including-lando-and-new-characters.html?fbclid=IwAR3wGTOHNp-kfDiryiito1lNGctUYyhViygSMUrf7BwIixNwbUaKxRyO6Nw
Whether it's becomes official or not... I guess we'll have to wait for Celebration to find out.
Nice to see a return of a character, though he's hit tough times and can't afford new clothing.
Noticed an alien in the poster... I'm sure I've read who the voice actor is, but fail to recall the name.
Knights of Ren
Red FO Troopers or just for effect?
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I think the red is just for effect.
No Rose Tico on the poster?
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No Rose Tico on the poster?
Yeah, that alone makes me think it's fake. Plus the fact that it appears that Threepio is holding Chewie's bowcaster.
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So the reason C-3PO has a bowcaster is because it is really C-3PX!
Or maybe they killed off Chewie and put his brain in C-3PO.
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I'm hoping 3P0 tries to shoot Chewie's bowcaster and gets blown apart like in ESB!
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Are those really red Stormtroopers or is it just the glare of his saber?
Zorii FTW!
#wheresRose?
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Are those really red Stormtroopers or is it just the glare of his saber?
From what I've read they really are red. The helmets are different, too. And these troopers may tie into a line of dialogue between Kylo Ren and Hux from TFA.
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I just read the update about it being real promotional material, so I guess it's real.
Does Threepio become Rambo now? I mean the Resistance only has a handful of members left after the Battle of Crait (there are others somewhere that didn't answer the call), so does he step up and become a real battle droid now or does Rey and Chewie walk into a fancy restaurant and have Threepio hold their coats, so to speak.
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Are those really red Stormtroopers or is it just the glare of his saber?
From what I've read they really are red. The helmets are different, too. And these troopers may tie into a line of dialogue between Kylo Ren and Hux from TFA.
I didn't notice that the first time, but yeah, they've got a prequel feel to them... and could be a way for a certain Sequel character to make a reappearance (I recall someone (JJ?) saying someone might not really be dead).
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Sorry to do another reply, but I figured I'd make a "spoiler" thread for those who might want to discuss this leak more... I almost said too much on this one and had to catch myself.
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Sorry to do another reply, but I figured I'd make a "spoiler" thread for those who might want to discuss this leak more... I almost said too much on this one and had to catch myself.
Traditionally this thread has always been spoilery so I updated the title. Anyone trying to stay spoiler-free probably shouldn't be in here in the first place... :P
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Has there been a lot of leaks? I tend to stay away from spoilers so I have no clue what's out there.
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Sorry to do another reply, but I figured I'd make a "spoiler" thread for those who might want to discuss this leak more... I almost said too much on this one and had to catch myself.
Traditionally this thread has always been spoilery so I updated the title. Anyone trying to stay spoiler-free probably shouldn't be in here in the first place... :P
Speaking of threads? The poster, if it's legit, does lead to some significant toy speculation. From a figure standpoint and a vehicle standpoint there was a lot of eye candy in that.... if it's the real thing.
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At first I was skeptical, but the SWNN posted this:
There seems to be many people disappointed with the poster. Quite frankly, at first we were too. But this is legit promotional art from the movie (not the theatrical poster). We've seen dozens like these (via Pyramid International) for all previous movies.
And Jeff and Jayson also told me this and I trust them.
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The Rise of Skywalker
Return of Palpatine
Looks like the Death Star on the planet
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That music kicks in at about 1:07 and it gets me. EVERY TIME.
So much to take in there. And plenty to speculate about. Where do you even begin?
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I did some pausing here and there.
The medal from Yavin…
A creature rebuilding Kylo's mask
The Death Star on a planet (in an ocean)
Kylo killing someone with the cross blade.
A Special Forces TIE Interceptor that Rey flips onto. (I'm guessing someone is friendly in that Interceptor or it would have fired on her).
Didn't see Rose or BB-8 in the trailer.
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Didn't wow me, but I was watching it with the sound off at work so will try again later.
Great to see Billy Dee though!
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The Death Star on a planet (in an ocean)
DS1 on Yavin IV or DS2 on Endor?
A Special Forces TIE Interceptor that Rey flips onto.
Isn't that Kylo's TIE Silencer?
And plenty to speculate about. Where do you even begin?
Skywalker = Luke? Rey? Kylo? Vader? Palpatine (as Anakin's dad)?
I know that Palps laugh is gonna tick off some people but I am 100% on board for this ride...
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A Special Forces TIE Interceptor that Rey flips onto.
Isn't that Kylo's TIE Silencer?
That's what I thought at first, but it's an Eyeball with red markings and has a gun turret below.
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Looks like that shot with Rey and the TIE Interceptor (piloted by Kylo, or just some fancy editing) happens on Jeda.
Lando in the Falcon! (Please don't kill him off!)
I'd like to think that's the Death Star remnants on Endor...but all planets are defined by one topographical feature. :D
The Palpatine Cackle at the end...if they go the Dark Empire route, I'll be disappointed.
Visuals look good...let's hope Jar Jar Abrams's story holds up.
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Didn't see Rose or BB-8 in the trailer.
BB-8 is in there a few different places, along with some new buddy droid.
Link to the trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adzYW5DZoWs).
I really hope they don't pull the Emperor and Luke back from the dead as anything more than "advisers" like ghost Yoda and Obi-Wan.
I wonder if the Rey / TIE Fighter scene is real or a dream sequence. Seems pretty out there. I'm guessing its a bit of a fakeout like they did in E8 as well.
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I SEE CTRL+C CTRL+V ABRAMS IS REUSING THE DARK EMPIRE CLONE EMPEROR STORYLINE
REY IS A MARY SUE
CHINESE WOMEN CAN'T KISS BLACK MEN
LAURA DERN IS AN INEPT MILITARY LEADER DUE TO PURPLE HAIR AND BEING A WOMAN
IT'S OUT OF CHARACTER FOR LUKE TO WANT TO KILL HIS NEPHEW
WHY IS LUKE TICKLING PEOPLE WITH GRASS
RIAN JOHNSON MORE LIKE RUIN JOHNSON
KATHLEEN KENNEDY RUINED MY CHILDHOOD
Did I hit all the nerd rage points?
Man, that Palpy tease was awesome. SO glad to see them use the underwater Death Star from the TFA concept art. That's technically a George Lucas idea!
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No sign of R2 in the trailer.
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The opening scene looks like it was shot in Jordan at Wadi Rum. It's a pretty famous film location (Lawrence of Arabia and The Martian shot there), and so was some of Rogue One. I can definitely see the potential for anyone to think that might be Jedha. And there was a still that I saw of Kylo in the cockpit of a TIE Fighter from the presentation. I'm pretty sure it's him in the TIE that's flying towards Rey.
-The snowy mountaintop village with the A-wing flying in looked pretty cool. Looking at it, I kind of wonder if that might be Battu.
-The burned forest with Kylo Ren and the Stormtroopers has some kind of an odd red sky. Could that actually be Yavin IV with the gas giant planet making the sky so red?
-I'm also kind of curious about who is repairing Kylo Ren's helmet.
-BB-8 and D-O seem like an interesting pair, but they're together so briefly you can't really surmise much from the shot.
-Good to see Lando at the helm of the Falcon with Chewie. And it looks like they've got the large sensor dish replaced at long last!
-The speeder chase looks pretty intense, and it looks like that same environment that might be Jedha. Is C-3PO central to this story as an Anakin Skywalker relic? Hmmm...
-The medal from Yavin definitely got me. And that forest reminded me a little of Endor.
-The wreckage of the Death Star? That elicited a significant "WHOA" from me. And it left me thinking that was Endor and wreckage from the second Death Star. Especially with the cackle that followed.
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Loved the trailer. It is so nice when you are really caught by surprise by things like this anymore, which is exactly what the Palps laugh did for me. Also fun to speculate on the title, it sounds really cool to me. To be honest, I was kind of in full Avengers mode (and am still pumped), but once I saw this it was all back to STAR WAAAAARS!!! Glad to see the band actually together in this movie, instead of all on their own missions. Lando!
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Rey needs a new Kyber crystal for Luke’s saber...Jedha had a temple full of Kyber.
Does Kyber still exist on Jedha? Is the first act an attempt to get said crystal??
I’m with Jeff...who is the Skywalker the title is referring to?
Early drafts of Return of the Jedi have the final battle between Luke and Vader in front of the Emperor when the ghost of Obi-Wan and Yoda show up (in physical form) and turn the tide. Could something similar happen “we are with you”. Imagine an all out battle with Qui Gon, Yoda, Obi, Luke and Rey v. Kylo and Palpatine (hell throw in plageius the wise).
December can’t get here soon enough
SDCC can’t get here soon enough, what a year to be a geek between GOT, Endgame and TROS
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I loved that they used Leia’s Theme - made my eyes water. I’ve been sort of dreaded the end of the Saga and Leia. Read somewhere that Ep. IX was originally going to be Leia-centric - makes me sad that story is not going to get told. :'(
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Rey needs a new Kyber crystal for Luke’s saber...Jedha had a temple full of Kyber.
Does Kyber still exist on Jedha? Is the first act an attempt to get said crystal??
Except...then she is in the Jedha desert wielding a fully-functional lightsaber...
But, anyways, the Empire took all of the Kyber out of Jedha for the Death Star's Superlaser. You would have to go to the remains of one of those to really get a...
...oh...
I got goosebumps when I saw that death star island! Here's hoping for Chief Wicket to make an appearance!
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I loved that they used Leia’s Theme - made my eyes water. I’ve been sort of dreaded the end of the Saga and Leia. Read somewhere that Ep. IX was originally going to be Leia-centric - makes me sad that story is not going to get told. :'(
Welcome back Tracy!
I'm really hoping JJ isn't going to rehash the Dark Empire plot...let the Emperor be a force ghost, or an old recording.
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I loved that they used Leia’s Theme - made my eyes water. I’ve been sort of dreaded the end of the Saga and Leia. Read somewhere that Ep. IX was originally going to be Leia-centric - makes me sad that story is not going to get told. :'(
+1! That Leia theme gives you all the feels. And as much as some people criticize a certain scene in TLJ, when that music kicked in it left me a mess in the theater. I couldn't help but think about Carrie Fisher in that moment, and that music did it to me again here in this trailer.
I'm with you there about wanting to see how this story might have played out had Carrie still been with us and was able to see it through to the end. But I'm also glad that the filmmakers were sensitive and respectful enough to not try to force something on us with a completely artificial performance. Tarkin was one thing in Rogue One. Leia is at the emotional center of the Star Wars Saga, and a level of authenticity to the performance is important.
As for Palpatine laughing? Where does that go? There seem to be a number of paths that are open based on plot points from other moments in the saga.
-Does it tie in to Palpatine's conversation with Anakin at the opera in ROTS? Has he found the way to cheat death? He even said it in ROTS as he spoke to Anakin following his turn against Mace Windu - "To cheat death is a power only one has achieved. But if we work together I know we can discover the secret". Is this real or an allusion to the Force spirit phenomenon?
-What about the world between worlds as seen in Star Wars Rebels? Ezra use the portals to rescue Ahsoka from her confrontation with Darth Vader. And he encountered Palpatine trying to use the portals as well.
-In ROTJ we see Palpatine fall and the explosion, but that's all. Could Palpatine have escaped in some way using the Force? The one point where that might not work from a story standpoint is why would he then abandon his Empire? But we can also keep in mind his line from ROTS to the Shocktroopers after Yoda fell but they were unable to locate the Jedi Master. Palpatine said "Then he isn't dead".
-A holocron. They can be imbued with the spirits and thoughts of the Force users that create them. Could a Sith holocron made by Palpatine be among Kylo Ren's most valued artifacts?
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-A holocron. They can be imbued with the spirits and thoughts of the Force users that create them. Could a Sith holocron made by Palpatine be among Kylo Ren's most valued artifacts?
This is interesting.
I’ve been thinking about the crashed Death Star and its (fake out?) link to Palpatine?
If Palpatine is alive, or even a force ghost, why would he stay on the crashed Death Star on the forest moon of Endor? And if he is alive I could understand Rey going to battle him, but not necessarily the whole rebel crew. I too was thinking there must be something on the Death Star - tech, relic, etc., that was drawing the rebel team there.
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So this is just going to be a sequel-remake of Return of the Jedi? Speeder bikes, Endor, TIE Interceptors, Skiff, Emperor.
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-A holocron. They can be imbued with the spirits and thoughts of the Force users that create them. Could a Sith holocron made by Palpatine be among Kylo Ren's most valued artifacts?
This is interesting.
I’ve been thinking about the crashed Death Star and its (fake out?) link to Palpatine?
If Palpatine is alive, or even a force ghost, why would he stay on the crashed Death Star on the forest moon of Endor? And if he is alive I could understand Rey going to battle him, but not necessarily the whole rebel crew. I too was thinking there must be something on the Death Star - tech, relic, etc., that was drawing the rebel team there.
Kylo Ren has been drawn to artifacts, although the movies haven't really beaten us over the head with that concept. The Vader helmet is a clear manisfestation of that. And his desire to have the Skywalker lightsaber in both TFA and TLJ is very evident. A holocron would potentially be one of the most significant artifacts he could desire, especially one made by Palpatine.
The thought of Palpatine surviving being thrown down the tower shaft still comes across as less than plausible, despite the scenarios I spelled out. But there has also been this ongoing story point about how the First Order emerged from the Unknown Regions of the galaxy. It's been something of a mystery that has been delved into slightly in the movies and literature. If Palpatine did survive, is that where he went? And could it have been to connect with some kind of secret Sith homeworld like Korriban?
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The trailer gives me the vibe that they are taking plot points from the original draft of TFA...where they were going around to all these different locations looking for clues to find Luke.
I can get behind the Holocron idea for Palpatine. If he's still alive that cheapens Anakin's redemption in ROTJ and if he's a force ghost that undercuts what was established in ROTS. Although I don't put it past Jar Jar Abrams to do either of those things.
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The trailer gives me the vibe that they are taking plot points from the original draft of TFA...where they were going around to all these different locations looking for clues to find Luke.
Maybe Palpatine cleaved his soul into 7 pieces and the gang is trying to outrace Kylo on collecting them. They can call the relics Forcecruxes
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I can get behind the Holocron idea for Palpatine. If he's still alive that cheapens Anakin's redemption in ROTJ and if he's a force ghost that undercuts what was established in ROTS. Although I don't put it past Jar Jar Abrams to do either of those things.
The return of Palpatine has always been low-hanging fruit in the post-OT Star Wars galaxy...there's a reason it was explored in the very first EU continuation (Dark Empire was written before Heir to the Empire, but published after.)
I guess I have long felt you could explain the "giant blast of evil" that happens down the DS II shaft as kind of the yang to Yoda gently fading away's yin. Both are dead, but neither is "Gone Forever." A dead Palpatine is still a very powerful threat...Yoda still has the power to influence the galaxy enough to call lightning to burn down the Jedi Tree as a Force Ghost, after all. Imagine that influence used for evil.
ROTS clearly states the one thing left for Palpatine to achieve is the secret of life over death, and he has 25 or so years between film appearances there to figure out the Sith equivalent of Qui-Gon's merge with the Living Force.
I guess it was a pretty good teaser trailer, to bring all this speculation forth about things I had long since stopped considering.
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Pretty cool, looking forward to it. :)
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I just made the horrid mistake of going to the Rebelscum forums to see the reactions on the trailer. What a bunch of ******* dickholes over there. I feel like I need a shower.
FYI, if you're a fan that didn't like The Last Jedi, for whatever reason (and there's always a reason underlying it all), it doesn't mean everyone hated it, or it was a bad movie. What a bunch of joyless [something too negative for even our liberal obscenity filters].
We can all find problems with any of the Star Wars movies...except Rogue One, that **** was perfection.
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I just wanna have fun talking about Star Wars but man it’s tough to go anywhere these days and try having a normal chat and enjoy some hype on new Star Wars. There is always someone wanting to bring it down.
Cool if you didn’t like it but jeez, when is enough enough expressing that you hate the new films? This is why we can’t gave nice things! Lol
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I just made the horrid mistake of going to the Rebelscum forums to see the reactions on the trailer. What a bunch of ******* dickholes over there. I feel like I need a shower.
FYI, if you're a fan that didn't like The Last Jedi, for whatever reason (and there's always a reason underlying it all), it doesn't mean everyone hated it, or it was a bad movie. What a bunch of joyless [something too negative for even our liberal obscenity filters].
We can all find problems with any of the Star Wars movies...except Rogue One, that **** was perfection.
How dare you blaspheme The Empire Strikes Back! ;D
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I just wanna have fun talking about Star Wars but man it’s tough to go anywhere these days and try having a normal chat and enjoy some hype on new Star Wars. There is always someone wanting to bring it down.
Cool if you didn’t like it but jeez, when is enough enough expressing that you hate the new films? This is why we can’t gave nice things! Lol
My issues with JJ Abrams aside, I am excited to see this film. What really gets me hyped is seeing my boys excited to see this!
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The whole weekend was kind of overwhelming... From 9's news to the new TV show stuff today, to the Fallen Order stuff, to Clone Wars stuff... it was like a tsunami of new stuff and information. Like being on the Poseidon Adventure of Star Wars news in a matter of a few days, haha.
Forget toys and stuff too! The Disney droids stuff and Disney park stuff, and on and on. Yikes. And there wasn't even a lot of TVC news out of the show, just a lot of news in general about everything. My friends looked like they had a great time too. I wish I could've gone on one hand, and on the other I hate crowds and traveling in general.
But the 9 hype felt like just the beginning once the weekend was over. The trailer is still a blast to watch and I'm kinda surprised by the ship going to what appears to be Battu there now. Just fun stuff all around.
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The trailer looks great. I'm not even going to speculate on what's going on - just happy with the visuals and possibilities ahead!
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Read an interesting post on Reddit about that shot of the group looking at the partially submerged Death Star wreckage, mainly the scale of it all. Granted we don't know how far away the wreck is from the cliff in the trailer, but one guy was theorizing it should have been much, much bigger.
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Read an interesting post on Reddit about that shot of the group looking at the partially submerged Death Star wreckage, mainly the scale of it all. Granted we don't know how far away the wreck is from the cliff in the trailer, but one guy was theorizing it should have been much, much bigger.
Scaling has been an issue with Star Wars for a long time....just ask Jesse! :D
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I'm hoping for recycled TFA scenes from the underwater Death Star.
(https://assets1.ignimgs.com/2019/04/12/deathstar-1555097288419_1280w.jpg)
(https://i.redd.it/23wbkcqto69z.jpg)
(https://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2019/04/D3-HTYNX4AEB7gr-720x419.jpg)
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Read an interesting post on Reddit about that shot of the group looking at the partially submerged Death Star wreckage, mainly the scale of it all. Granted we don't know how far away the wreck is from the cliff in the trailer, but one guy was theorizing it should have been much, much bigger.
Scaling has been an issue with Star Wars for a long time....just ask Jesse! :D
Truth.
That said are they looking at it as a DS 2 or a DS 1? 🤔
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I'm guessing that it's the DS2 and they are on Endor. If there's some sort of Palpatine connection it would have to be the DS2 since he was not on the DS1.
On another note, I understand that this is the spoiler thread, but I am going to try and stay away from any spoilers, but I love speculating on what we see from the trailers. I'd be happy to continue this in the non-spoiler section...I just don't want to accidentally see anything posted in here.
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On another note, I understand that this is the spoiler thread, but I am going to try and stay away from any spoilers, but I love speculating on what we see from the trailers. I'd be happy to continue this in the non-spoiler section...I just don't want to accidentally see anything posted in here.
I'm going to drop out of this thread soon too.
I personally think poorly informed speculation is okay in the non-spoiler thread, but my guess is this thread is going to start pulling in some speculation fueled by non-public material leaded that shouldn't be revealed in the main thread.
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I think it’s likely perspective and stuff too but the DS 1 is smaller and the planets have similarities so who knows. I didn’t see anything definitively Endor but at the same time it wasn’t like Yavin was visible. Either way it’s cool. The entire thing was cool from the distant tie whine to the flip to the giggles to the sand bike things... all cool.
The whole weekend was cool even from home.
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You obviously have to suspend disbelief on either Death Star crashing to a planet/moon and not rendering the whole thing uninhabitable. I've read a couple of fan theories (https://www.businessinsider.com/endor-holocaust-science-study-2015-12) calculating mass, impact, etc. that describe the result.
There were comics that described most of the debris getting pulled in to a temporary wormhole created by the exploding hyperspace engines and thus saving the planet.
Either way, its all scientific BS, but sure as heck looks cool in the trailer and I can't wait to see what its all about.
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In my head, I can justify it a million ways. Knowing the pieces have to go somewhere, maybe the Alliance towed them down with multiple craft and gave them a soft "splashdown" in the ocean as the most efficient solution and to save the ecology and Ewoks. Whatever works for you.
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If the Emperor is still alive and he's an incredibly powerful Sith Master, then he probably just floated it down to the planet using his force powers. If Ghost Yoda can shoot lightning and unprotected Leia can fly through space, Ghostly Palpatine should be able to soft land a big chunk of Death Star.
I'm more curious about why Rey is hanging out in the dessert with absolutely nothing around just waiting for a TIE to zip by. I'm guessing its some sort of cross promotion with Uber or Lyft.
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I'm more curious about why Rey is hanging out in the dessert with absolutely nothing around just waiting for a TIE to zip by. I'm guessing its some sort of cross promotion with Uber or Lyft.
I just hope she checks his ID before she hops in.
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There's a major article that is being published in the issue of Vanity Fair that hits newsstands soon. I'm posting it here because it's unclear if it may or may not have spoiler content.
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Behind-the-Scenes Video Shows the Softer Side of the Force (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2019/05/star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-behind-the-scenes-video?fbclid=IwAR1bZqqBv3BFlnEYZyTn93CUuIn8vwcyc1KUCtCV4Kidv0BgQ86jm0x97B0)
There are a number of images. Official photos were taken by Annie Liebovitz. And sure enough this got dropped on ABC during Good Morning America.
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I started checking it out and quickly bailed. It looks like there are enough spoiler that I'm going to see if I can avoid them for another 7 months :-\
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Good stuff...especially the Knights of REN and intergalactic Keri Russel. :D
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Looks like there’s a new trailer for Episode IX 8)
https://youtu.be/H5kzs4Ac2h8
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Looks like there’s a new trailer for Episode IX 8)
https://youtu.be/H5kzs4Ac2h8
Fam-made, though.
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Darn, I’m embarrassed :-[
I thought something seemed a tad off with it...
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Hmmm...Zorii Bliss piloting a Resistance Y-Wing? I’m intrigued.
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Rey wielding a double bladed red lightsaber? :o
Classic mis-direct!
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D23 Special look. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n1T3HxHd7Y)
Interesting stuff. Some nice visuals. I believe the whole Dark Rey is a force vision and I do not believe Palpatine has a major role in this film.
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D23 Special look. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n1T3HxHd7Y)
Interesting stuff. Some nice visuals. I believe the whole Dark Rey is a force vision and I do not believe Palpatine has a major role in this film.
Seconded.
Clearly C-3PO has turned to the Dark Side though... :D
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Can't say any of this excites me. It seems really fake and fan-made. Sith-3PO? Get out of here.
I did like that shot of the hundreds of Star Destroyers lined up.
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The Rebel / Resistance fighters coming out of hyperspace looked really cool. The silhouette of that one larger ship was puzzling. I've seen people suggest a number of different ships. The one that stuck out was the Ghost, but I think this ship is much larger.
But those Star Destroyers?!?! Did anyone else notice that they're not the First Order variant, but Imperial Star Destroyers?
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The larger ship could perhaps be he one from resistance? I don’t recall it now from the trailer but it’s a big one in the toon.
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The Rebel / Resistance fighters coming out of hyperspace looked really cool. The silhouette of that one larger ship was puzzling. I've seen people suggest a number of different ships. The one that stuck out was the Ghost, but I think this ship is much larger.
But those Star Destroyers?!?! Did anyone else notice that they're not the First Order variant, but Imperial Star Destroyers?
I heard a rumor that they might be abandoned ISDs from when the Empire broke up after the battle of Jakku. If you notice, there aren't very many lights in a majority of them.
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I’d dig it if JJ Abrams pulled a plot twist in this film with Rey getting seduced by the dark side and Kylo turning to the light... It would certainly PO a bunch of fans >:D
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I heard a rumor that they might be abandoned ISDs from when the Empire broke up after the battle of Jakku. If you notice, there aren't very many lights in a majority of them.
Dark Force Rising, anyone?
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That was the lost fleet of dreadnoughts right?
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Does that mean Thrawn is commanding them?
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Just realized I won't get to see this until 3 weeks after it comes out as I'll be out of country with no theaters in the town I'm visiting. I guess my 36 year streak of seeing the movies opening night ends.
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Well, the latest trailer certainly confirms a lot of the JediPaxis spoilers from Reddit...
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Well, the latest trailer certainly confirms a lot of the JediPaxis spoilers from Reddit...
I was thinking the same thing ;)
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Disney adding TROS locations to Star Tours ride on 12/20 (https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2019/10/here-we-go-again-exciting-updates-to-star-tours-the-adventures-continue/?CMP=SOC-DPFY20Q1wo1017190017A).
Story reveals the name of the ocean moon we see in the trailers - Kef Bir.
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I wonder why? Endor had large bodies of water if you look at the matte painting of the planet.
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I’m, personally, thinking it may be a way for them to avoid questions of the “Endor mass destruction” theories and avoid shoving ewoks into the spotlight at all. Just my personal feelings here.
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This planet, Kef Bir, is being called an ocean moon. While the world we saw in ROTJ was the forest moon, which was a satellite of the giant planet Endor. In the time since ROTJ everyone had taken to just calling the forest moon Endor. I have to guess that wreckage from DS2 landed in a number of places. The explosion was impressive, but with any explosion there is going to be debris. In this case VERY large debris which can be seen streaming away in that shot from the surface of the forest moon at the end of ROTJ.
I think Jesse might be on to something from a story standpoint. And there's another consideration: production security! The forest where those Endor scenes in ROTJ were shot is pretty well known among fans. Imagine TROS production going on location in California and the hordes of fans who might turn up trying to take it all in.
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I have always wondered what the canonical take on Endor was. We hear lines in ROTJ like "the forest moon of Endor" and "sanctuary moon". That always lead me to believe the Ewoks lived on a moon, but we never see the planet. Also, is the moon itself called Endor or is the planet that the moon orbits called Endor. The wording in the first quote could be taken either way. Maybe we will get to see more of this area of space in an establishing shot to show a planet with multiple moons.
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The name of the forest moon as "Endor" seems to have been interchangeable with the name of the larger planet, also known as Endor.
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I guess in the EU they had some story about the alliance moving the Death Star 2 debris so the Ewoks wouldn't be wiped out. Maybe they dumped all the debris on this nearby moon. But it really does seem like Rey is on (the Forest Moon of) Endor at the beginning of the trailer.
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The name of the forest moon as "Endor" seems to have been interchangeable with the name of the larger planet, also known as Endor.
I always took it that Endor was the planet and all the action takes place on Endor's moon. If you use Earth as an analogy, aliens battling on our moon might refer to it as "The battle of Earth" or the "Moon of Earth," which is a little more descriptive than "The Battle on Unnamed moon." The nickname "Sanctuary Moon" might refer to the moon having a hospitable atmosphere relative to other moons or the planet itself, which could be inhospitable. What isn't clear to me is whether Kef Bir is another moon of Endor (which would make a lot more sense) or some other "nearby" system.
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A clip has been posted on the official Star Wars YouTube channel (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCPiBWrIaSI). And that scene is just SCREAMING for some TVC mini-rigs to be made.
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They fly now?? :D
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The clip that got released today was one of the most remarkable things I’ve seen leading up to the movie. And it already explains a great deal.
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The clip that got released today was one of the most remarkable things I’ve seen leading up to the movie. And it already explains a great deal.
It floored me too.
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I downloaded the Rise of Skywalker soundtrack. I also have the soundtrack preorder on amazon. What is interesting is there is no star wars fanfare march at the beginning or ending titles. It definitely sounds like Star Wars but it is just missing. I think it's the oscar "for your consideration" soundtrack so that stuff isn't included. All the other tracks are here.
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I read through some snap reviews on social media following the premiere. Full reviews are embargoed until closer to the theatrical release. Most of the reviewers (https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/the-rise-of-skywalker-first-spoiler-free-reactions.57194/) that have aligned with my own tastes were overwhelmingly positive so far. A minority of these initial reviews found some faults with the movie, but given the state of Star Wars fandom I was not expecting universal acclaim. From what I read I would put the reactions at 85% positive / 13% ambivalent / 2% negative.
FYI, the official embargo on reviews will be lifted tomorrow, Wednesday, December 18th at 3:01 AM ET / 12:01 AM PT. So beware of possible spoilers from that time until your first screening.
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Speaking of the premiere, one of the MN guys that frequents JD was invited to it. He’s a cosplayer and was dressed as Palpatine. There’s a picture on his Facebook page standing in costume next to Ian McDiarmid. Freaking awesome!
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I watched some of the "blue carpet" premiere show on the Star Wars YouTube channel last night, and I'm pretty sure I saw him taking a picture with Ian McDiarmid at one point. It looked like a fantastic costume, too.
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I watched some of the "blue carpet" premiere show on the Star Wars YouTube channel last night, and I'm pretty sure I saw him taking a picture with Ian McDiarmid at one point. It looked like a fantastic costume, too.
I think one of his friends posted that on facebook as well.
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I'm still not sure what to expect. People are confirming the leaks from over the summer, but not much else, so I am keeping an open mind. However, the backlash to this film might be even worse than with TLJ
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It can’t be any worse than it was for TLJ. That was some next level vitriol.
Most of the early reviews I’ve seen have been positive too, so I am hopeful. I just bought tickets for Thursday night, so it feels real now.
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People **** on Solo in reviews as I recall and it was a sheer delight, so I'm not really looking at reviews at this point... And the fandom is **** at this point, so I mean I don't expect anyone who hated the other films to suddenly change their mind. I think some of the entrenching things they're focused on are pretty basic things to hate, and so I don't expect them to be fair about this.
The people who didn't like it but go in with an open mind to any of these new movies are seemingly limited or just not as vocal. I have watched the angry people week upon week upon week leading up to this, simply bitch, moan, and latch onto anything they can think of as to why it will suck. I have never in my life seen trailers picked apart by people as I did with ROS, and that includes our general picking apart of trailers for fun we've done since 1999 online. ::)
People bitching on anything from tracked vehicles, to new force moves, to bitching about old characters and tropes not being more important, and back to then bitching about something that's new or different pushing boundaries that makes them clutch their pearls... It's unreal. I'm excited because it's new Star Wars. Just like I was in 1999.
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I think I'm of a similar mind - let the movie be what it is going to be. Going into ANY film with preconceptions about what you're going to take in is almost certainly going to lead to disappointment in some way, shape or form. We're the audience - not producers, screenwriters or cast members. We do not have a hand in how this film will be made. Are we a passionate fanbase? Absolutely. But until some of the audience can learn to let go and just take it all in, I think they're going to continue to be malcontents who obsess about the movie they have imagined in their head, where anything else is doomed to fall short.
My response to them? The hell with them! I had no idea what I was going to see that day in 1977 when I went to the movie theater with my dad and my sister. And it changed my life! Movies like this led me to embrace my own creativity in television and music (film school always seemed a little bit out of reach). And I look forward to seeing this story come to its conclusion when I go to the theater on Friday. I'm past letting some disgruntled man-child diminish my own experience, and I look forward to discussing the movie with you all.
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Nicklab, perfectly said.
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Just got back from the opening night fan event. I really liked this one - probably the best of the sequel trilogy for me. They had a ton of ground to cover and while they didn't explain everything I wanted to know, they covered a lot. The trailers definitely spoiled certain scenes for me (Rebel Fleet, Imperial Fleet, Chewie's fate, etc.), but I guess that's to be expected. I really liked how they handled Leia, revelations about Rey, influences from fallen heroes, etc. Having Threepio back in the story to lighten the mood a few times was a nice add as well. I knew Lando was back, but did not expect to see certain other familiar faces, so that was a nice bonus as well. And the end fight scenes/space battle are incredible.
My only real grip about this one is the pacing. I liked that they jumped into it right away, but I felt like I watched the movie on fast forward. They literally race from one scene to the next without some of the slow build that gives you time to digest what's happening. For example, take the Asteroid scene in Empire when the ground tremors from a blaster bolt. There's a few comments about the strange surface then a moment of realization before they have to race out of the "cave" before you discover they're inside a space slug. TROS has a related scene where the heroes are in a cave and a giant snake appears. Rey instantly notices its wounded, heals it, and it slithers away showing them the way to the next scene. Just some added seconds of "Did that rock just move?" or "Hold on, I think its injured" would have added more depth to scenes like this.
Overall, probably an 8 or 9 out of 10, which is way better than I expected.
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Not sure if I hated it or liked it, but leaning towards hating it. I agree with the pacing issues, as it felt like a video game, or a 5 hour movie crammed into 2.5 hours. My biggest complaint is how the 3rd act was pretty much a direct copy of Avengers Endgame. Palpatine is Thanos, Poe is Captain America, the Rebel fleet is the snapped heroes coming back, etc. They even copied the "I am..." lines! Awful.
I need some time to digest this one. As the ending to the "Skywalker Saga" it kind of stinks.
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I have a few specific questions I will hold off on for now, but the main head scratcher for me was, after it’s all said and done, don’t they still have the entire First Order fleet and army still out there? Only Pryde was ordered to Exogol, not their actual forces. Kind of mutes the victory somewhat methinks.
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I have a few specific questions I will hold off on for now, but the main head scratcher for me was, after it’s all said and done, don’t they still have the entire First Order fleet and army still out there? Only Pryde was ordered to Exogol, not their actual forces. Kind of mutes the victory somewhat methinks.
Yeah, they didn't take out the first order, but I think that's okay to still have opposing, but somewhat equal forces in the galaxy. The Final Order fleet was much more of a game changer based on the number of ships and the planet-destroying canons on them, so wiping out that threat was probably a big enough victory for the gang. Plus, who's going to lead them with Kylo, Pryde, and Hux all out of the picture.
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I really liked the movie overall. There were some really convenient things about Palpatine that just pop up in this, the ninth movie, that were never hinted at in any of the others. I've always believed that Palps/Sith was/were somehow responsible for Anakin's conception. I always saw Anakin as the son Palpatine never had... and now. ?? I don't know about that...
Like I said though, I really liked it. I've liked all of the Disney Star Wars movies so far though (even TLJ and Solo), so I guess I'm an easy mark. :P
Also, not afraid to say I all-out man cried at like three different parts of this movie. Knowing I was seeing certain characters on the screen for probably the last time really hit me in all the feels... especially the big one. SO DAMN GLAD I WAS NOT SPOILERED for that moment on the death star wreckage. :'( :'( :'(
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Was that Last Order Destroyers falling from the sky or First Order? I missed that detail
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Poe made a comment toward the end about people everywhere rising up or something to that effect. So I assume those who didn't come to the battle are battling the First Order elsewhere.
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I’m still trying to digest TROS after seeing it on opening night. I’m going back again to see it Friday so that will give me a chance to pick up on anything I missed and more time to process it all. I definitely didn’t hate it, but I do feel it had too quick of a pace and was way over the top special effects-wise. At the same time, there were some really great scenes, I liked the way Leia was handled, and I liked the way it ended.
But if you ask me, The Mandalorian feels a lot more like classic Star Wars than TROS does.
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Just got back from my first viewing and I liked it...didn't necessarily love it. I'm still trying to figure out Rey's lineage. When the hell did he find a woman to knock up? I'm guessing it was before ROTJ, but yeesh....who would look at ol' scrotum face and say, "Yeah, I gotta get me a piece of that"?
Loved how Lando showed up. Loved the action, agree that the pacing was really fast. I wonder what Finn was going to tell Rey. (I thought he was going to say he felt the force....it would explain a lot about his story). I have a feeling that ended up on the cutting room floor.
I dunno....my opinion might change after a second viewing. Similar thing happened with me and The Last Jedi.
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I liked it. Need time to determine how much. It's been funny to read elsewhere some TLJ haters like TROS because it wipes out TLJ. I'd say it changes characters' views but doesn't wipe out the movie.
Couple responses to others thoughts. Way too fast paced.
I don't remember Endgame super specificically but it's a bad guy vs good guys and TLJ set up two years ago that hidden Resistance groups would save the day at the end. At worst it copies lots of movies as is Hollywood.
I imagine Sheev probably isn't (don't even like typing this) concerned with consent or sure some acolyte or someone wanting power would conceive with him.
Don't think it's fair to compare TROS and Mandalorian. Different era. Different too many things. Sorry I get a little sour on the "classic" Star Wars term.
I liked Rey as a Palpatine. Liked she chose to "become" a Skywalker.
Even if JJ and Rian hate each other it would have been nice to have had a little more Snoke info. He was just too random.
I think they could have used Rose in place of Jannah or something like that. She was just kinda there in this one. Again maybe on purpose by JJ.
Ok random thoughts over for now.
Oh and what Nicklab said on Dec 18. Beautifully put. Dead on.
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Poe made a comment toward the end about people everywhere rising up or something to that effect. So I assume those who didn't come to the battle are battling the First Order elsewhere.
I was thinking about this more last night and it occurred to me that the Ewoks would have no way to see ships falling on Exogol, so the Destroyers they saw exploding must have been FIrst Order ships. Good!
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I don't remember Endgame super specificically but it's a bad guy vs good guys and TLJ set up two years ago that hidden Resistance groups would save the day at the end. At worst it copies lots of movies as is Hollywood.
Yeah, I can see the Endgame parallels, but like Nick said - to me it's a movie trope more than Avengers rip-off. I can think of a ton of other examples where overwhelmed good guys get last minute boost in forces - including the arrival of the Clone Army on Geonosis in AOTC. I feel like it happens at least once (or even twice) in each of the LOTR films. :P You could also call it a throw-back to the Falcon swooping in to save Luke in ANH during the death star trench run.
I was thinking about this more last night and it occurred to me that the Ewoks would have no way to see ships falling on Exogol, so the Destroyers they saw exploding must have been FIrst Order ships. Good!
Yeah, I think showing the ships on Bespin and Endor was trying to show people were rising up all over and not just on Exogol. Sort of the same as how the end of ROTJ-SE originally tried to show a galaxy-wide ripple effect.
Looking back at the whole movie this morning, there were a lot of ROTJ parallels, but that's to be expected the way this trilogy was designed. I'm sure there is a cluster of "TROS=ROTJ rip-off" people out there (probably the same group that was complaining TFA=ANH rip-off). Didn't bother me though as I am on board with the "time is a flat circle" crew expecting history to repeat itself over and over through time.
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I've got to watch it a second time to soak it all in, but I mostly like this movie. I agree with the comments that some things seemed too fast and random. The story probably could have been slower and added in a little more character development.
Some thoughts:
- Agree that it was cool that Rey chose to be a Skywalker.
- The finding of Lando was way too random. His role in the movie was unimportant. I would have preferred he was part of resistance cell that helped at the end.
- I would have liked to see more internal struggle with Kylo before he returned to being Ben. That seemed too abrupt.
- The Jannah Stormtrooper deserter clan seemed non-essential. It would have been nice if that figured in to a larger network of resistance fighters.
- I was worried the jet pack troopers were going to be gimmicky, but they were used well.
- The Hux as spy could have been a lot more interesting, but turned out to be really pretty dumb.
- It would have been nice if there were more meat behind all the people rising up against the resistance at the same time.
- I like the Zorri Bliss character and story that gave more flavor to Poe's character.
- I was really concerned about the Palpatine reborn element, but it turned out to be okay (not great).
- I liked the concept of an unnavigable secret Sith world of Exogol and having to find a map to get there. I hated the fact that there were hundreds/thousands of Final Order Sith Star Destroyers there. If so many ships can be built there or brought there you would think the secret would get out. I think they should have separated the fleet from Palpatine's lair on Exogol.
- The ground attack on a transmitter on a Star Destroyer seemed artificial. Why couldn't they just shoot the transmitter from an X-Wing?
- I was expecting D-O to have more character and be more fun. It seemed there were previews/scenes that must not have made it to the final edit. We even got Rey with D-O as a toy and they hardly interacted in the movie.
- I was also a little concerned how they were going to write Leia in and out of this movie based on random clips from TFA. For the most part I think it worked pretty well.
- Loved the Wedge cameo. I almost wish that is all they did for Lando as well.
- I generally liked the focus they had on the main characters. The new ones weren't distracting and the supporting cast was limited.
I know that was kind of a lot of gripes, but they were small items without any big plot holes and I really did enjoy the movie. Very fun.
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Not correct thread but now that TROS is over and season one Mandalorian is almost over it's really hitting how few figs we got. I just bought a GOA Finn so I have a representation. POP Poe and Rose probably soon for same reason.
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I just got back from my first viewing, and I absolutely feel like I need some time to think about what I've just seen. Quick impressions?
-I agree that the movie seemed like it was racing from one scene to the next. Having moments for the story to breathe would have been good.
-The movie was dense - so much ground to cover, and it seemed like there was not sufficient time to cover it all.
-Palpatine's return is going to remain one of those great mysteries that will evoke a lot of discussion.
-Rey training with Leia was poignant. As was Luke's story of training Leia. I think about what might have been had Carrie survived to take part in the movie.
I have to see the movie again, and I already have tickets to go tomorrow.
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I've had 24 hours to digest the movie now, so have a couple of theories on issues people brought up:
#1 - I was surprised that they actually did cover a back story for Snoke, at least a little bit. There were growing tanks in one of the scenes where Palpatine was creating the shell for Snoke bodies. I took it that Snoke really is just a mouthpiece for Palpatine. He didn't really have story other than that and his disfigurement was all just part of the Emperor trying to create an organic, force sensitive shell. I'm sure he was running a variety of different experiments with all the time that he had.
#2 - How did the Emperor survive ROTJ? Still something of a mystery, but I think there's a clue near the end. If Rey and Ben and Baby Yoda can summon life force to heal wounds, I think Palpatine can too, but directing the energy back into himself. You see him regenerate his hand in seconds and he's further regenerated after blasting Rey and Ben. So, after his fall on the DS, he could have likewise summoned the life energy of others on the station to regenerate. He could likely get to a ship from there or Mary Poppins himself through space if he had to I guess.
#3 - The Knights of Ren. These guys had almost no purpose. They seem like Ben's entourage, but then side with Palpatine at the end because...? Maybe he was controlling them the whole time as well, but that seemed odd to me.
#4 - Lando wasn't a coincidence. Pretty sure he says that Leia sent him to warn the others. He could have been on the planet already or near the system. His role was mostly behind the scenes, but someone had to get the word out to the other systems to come help, so that was a good use of the character in my opinion.
#5 - I think the Jannah character was added because Rose is such a terrible actress. That role was just to give Finn some acceptance of his own past, so they left Rose at home and added Jannah instead. Not a pivotal character, but I can see why they added her.
#6 - I thought it was weird that they skipped most of Palpatine's son/daughter storyline to go directly to Rey. Maybe he inseminated lots of women and most of his offspring didn't have force powers, but granddaughter Rey did? That seems like a big plot point to just leave out.
#7 - I don't understand why Han is very nervous about jumping into the atmosphere of a planet in TFA, but Poe can jump from one world to the next with just meters to spare without hitting anything or causing adverse effects? Suspend belief there I guess.
#8 - Why does the Falcon "crash" when the landing gear fails? It doesn't have wheels to land like a plane, so couldn't it just hover and set down awkwardly? That scene kind of bugged me.
#9 - I always took it that Palpatine kind of "fathered" Anakin, which would mean in a way that he somewhat created the Skywalker line. If that's true, then aren't Ben and Rey like 2nd cousins? The theme of cousins and siblings making out in Star Wars movies is a little odd.
#10 - Force Ghosts make no sense! I still don't understand how Yoda can shoot lightning or Luke can hold a lightsaber in their "astral" form. If so, materialize near Palpatine and make a building fall on him and you'd avoid all this fighting. I did hear a theory that there is a difference between a force ghost and the ability to actually reincorporate for a limited amount of time, which would give them physical abilities, but that still seems odd. Or, did they know that Palpatine would transfer his essence into whoever killed him, thus making him supremely powerful if he transferred into a form that could dematerialize and reform at will all around the galaxy? Hmmn....
#11 - BONUS - I really liked the take on Palpatine having all the Sith "with him" in conjunction with the power to transfer his essence into his successor. Seems like that's the Sith plan all along set up by Bane and the reason for the rule of 2. When the Master dies, he actually joins with the apprentice, making each Sith stronger and smarter than the last.
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I liked the movie. My 10-year old son really liked it. I do need to see it again to get a more honest read, I went into it with such trepidation yesterday that it might have gotten a big pass from me by not being a horrible mess. My son asked me to rank the "Skywalker Saga" movies on the drive home last night and this one slotted in at #7. In his ranking it was #4.
A few random thoughts I haven't seen mentioned here yet...
* My son was extremely creeped out by Palpatine's milky blind eyes. To the point where he was squirming when they talked about going back to his planet because he didn't want to see that again.
* I get the feeling "Claude" got mostly cut from the movie. He was onboard the Falcon at the beginning, but just barely. They mentioned him by name and he was with our main crew so I locked him in as someone to remember, but then he was just totally removed to background shots.
*As far as the hyperspace skipping...I would guess Han pushed that envelope to the point that he proved atmospheric jumping is possible, and now hotshot pilots are testing it to see how far it can go. You will notice doing it breaks the Falcon.
* I think my favorite bit of TLJ-correction was the inclusion of the young Mon Cal that someone called "Junior." I am assuming "Ackbar Jr."
* When Rey decides to hunt down Palpatine, the "Ancient Jedi Text" she consults is Luke's personal journal. So either Luke decided that belonged in the revered library, or she swiped it from his hovel. Either way I chuckled at the audacity.
*JJ can write funny Threepio stuff. He was comic "gold" here (and I always liked his humor in TFA too.)
*Since the "Sith Wayfinder" had been moved to Palpatine's hidden boudoir just off the throne room aboard the Death Star II, I am going to assume from here on out that he was making the station his permanent residence as of ROTJ. This further confirms my own "Krennic's Law: if you build a planet-destroying weapon, make sure you never find yourself on the surface of a planet."
*I could almost see the Disney+ logo appear in the corner after Lando and Jannah talked about finding her homeworld.
*Seems to me that Luke, Leia and Ben all inherited their Force abilities from Anakin and their "dying when the story is done with them" abilities from Padme. I did not understand why any of these people died, Leia especially. She shouted, maybe Force-shouted, and that killed her? Did Kylo's stab wound kill her? I just didn't get it.
*Chief Wicket! My kind of superfluous fan-service!
That's all I've got for now.
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John Williams score was absolutely fantastic
Luke raising his X-Wing to Yoda’s theme (as a ghost none the less) and smiling was fantastic
Loved the Jedi talking to Rey but they made some odd choices to include...Kanan? Aayla? Adi Gallia who never spoke in the prequels?
Like others have said the Endgame parallels are definitely there as the fleet shows up but man that scene with all the ships gave me absolute goosebumps.
I will admit that I really didn’t get too emotional which surprised me, I cried like a baby when Tony Stark died and during his funeral...but I will say that the final scene with Rey and Ben was absolutely perfect
I smiled the whole way home and still have a big grin on my face, long live Star Wars
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After a second viewing, I enjoyed the film a lot more. Not a perfect movie, but very enjoyable.
I'm also now convinced Finn is force sensitive and that's what he was going to tell Rey.
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My second viewing is going to be later today, and I'm interested to see how it will play for me this time around.
I think it became very apparent that the secrets of Darth Plagueis may have been revealed, but not in a completely overt way. Witness the resurrection of Palpatine, who seemed far from whole at the beginning of the movie. For Palpatine? I'm suspecting cloning, since his face seemed to not be melted, and it also seems that he has been able to transfer his consciousness from one body to another.
And then there was the display of the healing powers of the Force in a more concrete form. We saw a hint of it in ROTS as Palpatine tended to Anakin on Mustafar, and then the more overt display of this power by the Child in this week's episode of "The Mandalorian".
I have to admit, the whole back and forth between Finn and Poe regarding what Finn was going to say to Rey was pretty funny, but also had an awkward undertone. It seemed like someone was eventually going to be the third wheel. But considering what happened at the end of the movie? I don't know that Rey would wind up going for ANYBODY. That, plus Finn seemed to have some kind of chemistry with Jannah. And then Poe and Zorri at the end? That played out perfectly from a comedic standpoint.
Having Wedge pop in as a gunner on the Falcon was nice from a continuity standpoint. And the John Williams cameo was a great way to include the maestro of Star Wars.
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Saw it last night, and really, really liked it. It really was a fast paced, packed film though and I need a couple more viewings to take it all in. Some things I really liked:
*Chewie gets his medal!
*Luke raising the X-Wing
*The lightsaber battles
*The fleet arriving
*Having the new trilogy “big 3” together, they really do have good chemistry
*I thought it was a great movie for 3PO
*Wicket! I had heard he showed up, sort of hoped he’d be helping on the Falcon or something
*Nice integration of Leia I thought
*Little return of Han/return of Ben Solo
*Brief Luke/Leia training scene
And so much more. Even though it is “the end”, I felt there was so much story to still tell. Finn/Jannah’s backstory, is Finn Force sensitive?, what’s next for Rey, etc. kind of hoping we see some Disney Plus shows or something more with these characters. Say what you want about the ST, but I feel like much of the casting is pretty great. Very likeable actors/characters. Can’t wait to see it again.
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My story for getting to see this was fun. Had tickets for Thursday night (the 19th) with the same group I always go with. The weekend before I was writing with my British friend at a coffee shop when a work colleague texted asking if could cover him on a 4 day gig. Tuesday through Friday, the shooting days, Wednesday and Thursday, being nights. I reluctantly agreed. After getting booked and going back to my work, it suddenly hit me and I said a frustrated curse semi-loudly - I had agreed to work Thursday night in conflict with seeing the movie.
Obviously work was more important and I laughed luck. So did my British friend.
About an hour later my, British friend asked me about what I was doing Tuesday night. I didn't have anything to do, so she signed me up for the BAFTA screening to see Star Wars. Never knew she was in the British Film and TV academy. So I got to see Star Wars on the 17th.
I felt the movie was the best of the Sequel trilogy. I really enjoyed it. But, it's still a JJ Abrams movie. Very fun, but very flawed.
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This has already been said but Poe Rey Finn really played well off each other. Kudos to the actors.
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So which character did the Dr Who guy play? Did I blink and miss it?
Edit: never mind, I see this turned out to be another red herring.
Killing Eve chick as Rey’s mom was a nice touch though.
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- I would have liked to see more internal struggle with Kylo before he returned to being Ben. That seemed too abrupt.
I mean, to me we had two films of that before this one... :)
I just got home and am going to bed, but this one was by far my favorite of the three. There were a few things I didn't love, but it finally had the gravitas, the seriousness, and the danger that I didn't think the others did. I loved all the Palpatine / Sith temple / Sith coliseum stuff...
I need way more toys from this movie.
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So which character did the Dr Who guy play? Did I blink and miss it?
Edit: never mind, I see this turned out to be another red herring.
Killing Eve chick as Rey’s mom was a nice touch though.
Cut from the film, apparently. Rumor is he was supposed to play Palpatine until someone told JJ to ask Ian if he wanted to return.
Also, the leaks over the summer said that Jannah was supposed to be Lando's daughter, with the reason Lando was on Pasana because he was depressed over the First Order kidnapping her. That was obviously cut.
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Also, the leaks over the summer said that Jannah was supposed to be Lando's daughter, with the reason Lando was on Pasana because he was depressed over the First Order kidnapping her. That was obviously cut.
That one seems like it might have been either too convenient or wishful fan thinking. It gets back to that whole "trying to make the universe bigger, not smaller" conversation. And I like the way the interactions between Lando and Jannah played out. In the past I had always thought of Lando as a bit of a hustler, even post ROTJ when he really became much more of a straight arrow. In TROS, Lando is much more of a trusted ally who can help Leia navigate some more murky situations. But his heart is very much in the right place. His reunion with Chewie on Pasana was one of the more touching moments in the movie. And when he offered to help Jannah find her family at the end of the film? To me, Lando finally seemed like a more fully realized character with a sense of dedication and compassion.
But having Jannah and her group be former Stormtroopers? I like the story notes that it evokes - Finn isn't the only Stormtrooper to have defected from the First Order. This group seems ready to help rise up against the First Order, too. Plus Finn and Jannah are able to form a kind of kinship through this shared experience they've been through. They were both taken as children from their homes and families.
As I'm writing this now TFA is playing on cable. The Force vision scene played, and I took note of Ochi's ship taking off from the surface of Jakku. And sure enough the ship started heading towards something red in space, much like the red storm / nebula that had to be navigated to reach Exogol.
I've also been thinking about the title of the movie and what it means. And I got the sense that it can refer to two things - the redemption of Ben Solo as the heir to Skywalker as he was meant to be. He had told his father that his son was dead, that he killed him. And in Rey's act of healing him following their duel? She helped to resurrect Ben Solo. And the same might be thought of Ben's sacrifice as he saved Rey. She fell as a Palpatine, but rose as a Skywalker.
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One area that I'd like to know more about is Palpatine "surviving" DS2. My personal feeling is his body died, but he was able to transfer his consciousness to a waiting clone.
I am hoping the novelization gets in to this a bit more.
I went looking for the novel on Amazon and was surprised to see that it doesn't get released until March. I guess I'll have to wait...
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One area that I'd like to know more about is Palpatine "surviving" DS2. My personal feeling is his body died, but he was able to transfer his consciousness to a waiting clone.
I am hoping the novelization gets in to this a bit more.
I went looking for the novel on Amazon and was surprised to see that it doesn't get released until March. I guess I'll have to wait...
I'm thinking something like that, too. Case in point? Snoke. The first few minutes of the movie make it clear that Snoke was a creation of Palpatine and his cabal. And Snoke looked like he was one of the only viable creations of that process. The others that were in the tanks looked like either a work in progress or failures.
I'm also thinking that this storyline links in with some other subplots throughout the saga: the children of the Force, as seen in Clone Wars, where Darth Sidious was trying to gather Force sensitive children; the Inquisitors during the age of the Empire, who sought out Force sensitives, either to hunt them down and eliminate them or put them to use for Imperial purposes; and the Child in The Mandalorian, who the Client was looking to harvest genetic material from him in that show. Is the process of cloning a Force sensitive individual possible? That seems like a question worth discussing.
Originally, I thought that perhaps Palpatine had opened a portal to the World between Worlds as seen in Rebels. But if he had done that, wouldn't he have been able to stage a more immediate return? And his appearance would have remained much the same as we saw him in ROTJ. But the Palpatine we saw at the beginning of the movie looked like he had not suffered the facial deformities caused by Mace Windu re-directing his Force lightning back at him during their fight in ROTS. This Palpatine appeared to be blind, needed to be suspended from that crane looking device, and had deformed fingers. I have to think that Palpatine was able to transfer his consciousness from his old body to a somewhat incomplete clone body, much like he planned to pass his spirit onto Rey once she performed the sacrifice on Exogol.
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I'm watching this again tonight. At home.
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I'm watching this again tonight. At home.
Went sailing the high seas eh?
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After a second viewing, I enjoyed the film a lot more. Not a perfect movie, but very enjoyable.
I'm also now convinced Finn is force sensitive and that's what he was going to tell Rey.
I read somewhere that JJ confirmed this at a screenning. Also confirmed that the opening scene was on Mustafar and the first Sith Wayfinder was in Vader's throne room.
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After a second viewing, I enjoyed the film a lot more. Not a perfect movie, but very enjoyable.
I'm also now convinced Finn is force sensitive and that's what he was going to tell Rey.
I read somewhere that JJ confirmed this at a screenning. Also confirmed that the opening scene was on Mustafar and the first Sith Wayfinder was in Vader's throne room.
Yep, saw that too. I thought every SW planet only had one geographic feature, so the trees threw me at the beginning there. The reference to the Almazec (sp?) as a Vader cult was interesting too.
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After a second viewing, I enjoyed the film a lot more. Not a perfect movie, but very enjoyable.
I'm also now convinced Finn is force sensitive and that's what he was going to tell Rey.
I read somewhere that JJ confirmed this at a screenning. Also confirmed that the opening scene was on Mustafar and the first Sith Wayfinder was in Vader's throne room.
The Visual Dictionary confirms this was Mustafar as well.
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I saw it 4 times this weekend and liked it each time equally... I agree with some of the nitpicks but I felt it tied things up well while Both paying homage to and giving sly criticism to TLJ without outwardly ******** on it. I feel like Abrams at the helm was inevitably going to see some changes but I enjoyed that he didn’t just chuck out or overwrite TLJ. If anything I feel he makes it stronger than it was to me before (I liked it but it wasn’t my fav film).
I was moved by the Jedi and felt they got all the necessary ones then tossed in some familiar voices to heighten fan feelings... I liked that.
I loved the fleet showing up to save the Resistance and the FO officer calling them just people... yes, people. People got sick of your **** and decided you suck ass and they’re not putting up with you and your ilk so boom.
I loved Han... like, teared up at “Hey Kid”.
I love that you can analyze this and say Rey’s super powerful or say no it’s Ben who was... I liked that ambiguity there. Fans can see either that way and they’d not be wrong.
I loved Rey taking the Skywalker name, playing on the whole overall theme going back to TFA at least that who you are doesn’t matter. You can be what you want... Ben wasn’t always destined to be bad because of his bloodline and Rey didn’t need to long for a family she kept hoping would come back. She’d get a new one... family isn’t always about the name or the blood. I really liked that and people hating it seem to gloss over that cohesive storyline from all 3 of the films.
I have nitpicks like Hux being a waste, KOR being a waste, and other stuff (good point on the Falcon “crashing” but then again so did Luke on Dagobah, the Falcon in Solo, Falcon in TFA... who knows why). But for me Rey and Ben’s story was pretty perfect for what I subconsciously wanted I think. I didn’t go in with expectations and left quite happy.
The ST for me is superior to the PT right now and pretty much entrenched that way. I liked this more for sure.
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I loved Han... like, teared up at “Hey Kid”.
When Ben says, "Dad." and Han says, "I know"? So good. Just perfect, really.
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I loved Han... like, teared up at “Hey Kid”.
When Ben says, "Dad." and Han says, "I know"? So good. Just perfect, really.
That scene genuinely took me by surprise. And when I saw it? It was this perfect mirror image of their scene together on Starkiller Base. But it became clear that like so many of the events in our lives, major changes hinge on the simple choices that we make.
The way this scene played out was nothing short of touching. And as much as I had reviled Kylo Ren through the Sequel Trilogy, his transformation back to Ben Solo was undeniable and I was surprised at the empathy I had for him. I think that Adam Driver deserves a tremendous amount of credit for how he played this role throughout the ST.
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I caught it for a second time yesterday and I thought it flowed a lot better the second time.
Its still got too much in it and jumps around too much, but I thought it held together really well.
Some new things I noticed the second time around:
- Babu Frik was really funny
- Why was R2 the astromech in Poe's X-Wing and BB-8 was accompanying the ground assault team? I thought that was weird.
- Jannah shoots her bow once. Its probably just me, but nonsensical "special weapons" in movies kind of bug me. Why wouldn't everyone just use a blaster?
- I wouldn't mind a Poe / Zorri mini-series on Disney+ that covers their spice running days. They had some good lines/chemistry.
- Ben/Kylo lands on the Sith world with a blaster, shoots some royal guards, and then loses his blaster or chooses to do a hand to hand combat with the Knights of Ren. They should have skipped the royal guards blaster part and had him go hand to hand the whole time.
If they had a chance to go back and redo it they could have simplified the McGuffin journey for the Sith wayfinders and spent more time with the characters (or cut some out). Jannah should have had more or been cut. Spending more time with Ben and Rey would have been a plus.
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I think Jannah was serving the role that Rose was initially intended to play. There's not much story for Finn without Jannah to make him feel more accepted/understood. She really didn't take up that much screen time and I'd rather have her role than more Rose. She just really doesn't seem like a great actress.
I've been thinking more about the Jedi Spirits and am really liking the theory that the reason they couldn't go after Palpatine is that the sith essence would flow into them, making the Emporor nearly invincible. Yoda using powers in E8 is one of the things that bugged me most about TLJ, but I'm more accepting of how the "dead" Jedi are used throughout the trilogy if this was the rationale behind their limited involvement.
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- Why was R2 the astromech in Poe's X-Wing and BB-8 was accompanying the ground assault team?
I brought that up when my kids and I were talking about the movie yesterday. My daughter said "because BB-8's faster", which is as good a reason as any I guess. Don't know if R2 could have kept up with the alien-horse assault team the way BB-8 did. :D
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- Why was R2 the astromech in Poe's X-Wing and BB-8 was accompanying the ground assault team?
I brought that up when my kids and I were talking about the movie yesterday. My daughter said "because BB-8's faster", which is as good a reason as any I guess. Don't know if R2 could have kept up with the alien-horse assault team the way BB-8 did. :D
I assumed that too, but thought they could have used rocket R2-D2 or any random ball droid. I thought it was odd not to have BB-8 with Poe, and double odd to have R2 involved. I don't think R2 had left the rebel headquarters in the sequel trilogy until that battle.
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Saw it again today in IMAX which was kick ass...
Night one didn’t hit me as hard emotionally as this viewing did...Han and Leia saving their son and his redemption was so perfectly done I love how all of that played out
I literally had tears in my eyes from the Death Star duel on...And stuff I liked night one I liked even more
John Williams absolutely nailed the score on this...the notes being played during Rey and Rens fight on the Death Star was amazing...as was the main theme swelling as the fleet of nobody’s show up
I still don’t get the First Order ships falling from the sky on Endor and Bespin
My boys and I were talking on the way home, with the Sith gone and Rey and Finn allowed to rebuild the Jedi Order how are they going to set up the new Big Bad(s)? Yuuzahn Vong type of threat from outside the Galaxy? I can’t believe this is the end of their stories...and so want to know where they think what they can dream up next.
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Finn said to Poe I think “they’re rising up all over the galaxy” so the FO ships falling were, to me, just that galactic-wide shot of the galaxy standing up to the Empire like Lucas added to the SEs and I don’t even feel it’s all happening in sync (like in the SEs) but just showing it happening for finality’s sake and some nostalgia.
I really am shocked how many people missed Han’s “I Know”. I was already a mess then that? Good lord. It was one of the best scenes, all the films, hands down. Definitely two of the best actors the saga ever saw.
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Saw it again today in IMAX which was kick ass...
Night one didn’t hit me as hard emotionally as this viewing did...Han and Leia saving their son and his redemption was so perfectly done I love how all of that played out
I literally had tears in my eyes from the Death Star duel on...And stuff I liked night one I liked even more
John Williams absolutely nailed the score on this...the notes being played during Rey and Rens fight on the Death Star was amazing...as was the main theme swelling as the fleet of nobody’s show up
I still don’t get the First Order ships falling from the sky on Endor and Bespin
My boys and I were talking on the way home, with the Sith gone and Rey and Finn allowed to rebuild the Jedi Order how are they going to set up the new Big Bad(s)? Yuuzahn Vong type of threat from outside the Galaxy? I can’t believe this is the end of their stories...and so want to know where they think what they can dream up next.
Just back from my second viewing.
On Endor someone had Holdo-ed through the destroyer there. Someone else commented that local uprisings may have happened in-system in addition to the peoples fleet arriving at Exogol.
The Ghost is present in the party landing for the final celebration. Though, Im surprised we didn't at least see Hera in person.
I think I'm now totally onboard with Palpatine coming back. He's such a bastard it sounds like something he would do. Also, Dark Empire is now almost 30 years old. A resurrected Palpatine and a creepy Sith facility are justa standard part of EU storytelling. Plus... Palpatine-on-a-stick is cool and creepy. However, I can admit thought that Snoke planning to kill Rey is hard to retcon into this story.
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Had my second viewing tonight. Definitely easier to follow on second viewing. And I can't stop feeling sorry for the people who have gone out of their way to not enjoy this trilogy on any level. They missed out. Oh well.
Oh and some ass hat douche bag yelled "penis" as Leia died.
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****heads are everywhere man.
I had someone make some audible effort to disrupt the one viewing I went to when Rey’s lineage was revealed finally. Could tell he was going out of his way to I guess make the theater get on board with his revolt.
I had one viewing of audible happiness and clapping on the first night and on the Sunday viewing is when the dude was being a chode about things. It was weird. The general reaction on social media is weird too. I don’t fault folks not liking something, I mean hey, different strokes and all that. But it’s kinda funny the anti ROS people I’m seeing are generally vehemently pro TLJ... which I was and am too. And I just don’t see ROS as being somehow derogatory to TLJ. If anything I felt JJ wanted to do his thing but worked kinda hard to still honor TLJ without still compromising things he didn’t maybe agree with in a humorous way (a Jedi’s weapon deserves more respect, for instance).
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Does anyone recommend IMAX 3D over standard 3D for ROS? I saw it once already in 3D on a mediocre screen. I have an option of seeing this again tomorrow at a convenient time on IMAX or at a less convenient time in IMAX 3D.
Anyone have any recommendations?
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Personally, I'd go with IMAX 2D over 3D....just because there's so much going on in several scenes that the #D could be really distracting.
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Personally, I'd go with IMAX 2D over 3D....just because there's so much going on in several scenes that the #D could be really distracting.
Well I just tried the AMC imax. As of now I can't tell a difference between that and the AMC Dolby screen right next to it.
Does it seem like Vader's helmet does anything in this trilogy? I'm assuming Palpatine was telling us that he "showed the darkness" to Kylo in what was assumed to be Vader. Kylo touches the helmet to try and mess with Rey while she's running the training course, but I assume the result is nothing more than the dyad connecting them. I aways felt weird about the idea of the helmet having any dark energy given Vader redeemed himself. When people say that Palpatine's return messes up Vader's sacrifice... I feel the helmet corrupting his grandson would have been exactly that. I don't agree that Palpatine returning affects Vader. Palpatine is an evil old **** and evil is as evil does. He returned in Dark empire and he returned here. If he had means to do so he would return.
I do like the idea of someone getting to surprise Palpatine twice only to have the second surprise backfire. The first surprise is the ability to transfer the saber from Rey to Ben. I appreciated the little slight of hand trick she does. The backfire surprise is that the life force of the two is enough to regenerate him, which it appears he did not anticipate.
Also, captain Sidon Ithano is present for the celebration at the end. He is listed in the visual dictionary but it wasn't clear to me that was the connection. I'm hoping his ship the Meson Martinet is visible somewhere. Wookiepedia also claims that Quiggold is in ROS or maybe on set at least.
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I took some time and cracked open all my ROTS 3.75" and 6" figures, and there really aren't too many of them.
I'm not sure if the Sith Troopers were originally going to have a larger role, but I got a little annoyed opening these figures (got the deluxe versions) with all their extra weird weapons (?). I'm the sucker for paying the extra cash, but as far as I can tell none of these extra weapons were in the movie in any way.
The figures themselves were great, but if you haven't already bought them I would opt for the cheaper, non accessorized versions.
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Did I miss where Rey built her own lightsaber? Was it in a book or cartoon or something else? I don't remember that ever being discussed/shown, so when she ignites it at the end it surprised the hell out of me. If it is the first time it's revealed, it seems like it a weird time to do it...
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Did I miss where Rey built her own lightsaber? Was it in a book or cartoon or something else? I don't remember that ever being discussed/shown, so when she ignites it at the end it surprised the hell out of me. If it is the first time it's revealed, it seems like it a weird time to do it...
Why was that weird? It seemed pretty straightforward that she built it between the time that the war ended and the time she got around to burying the sabers for Luke and Leia? I thought that was a fitting move to show that the Jedi Order is reborn, and that she's completed her training.
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Agreed with Rob, I liked it and that it appeared she built it out of her staff to boot. I felt it was sort of a metaphor to say she was returning Luke and Leia’s sabres to their “home” of sorts, even though they were really hers by right, and she was going to make hers and be her own person. Names aren’t defining things and she can be who she wants and chooses to be. I felt the sabre was just one more part of that theme that I found important.
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I agree with Rob and Jesse. And of course love that theme as it says so under my avatar. Yay Iron Giant
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Count me in as someone who likes the way the situation with all of the lightsabers played out.
-Rey re-forging the Skywalker legacy lightsaber gave a nice sense of continuity from the previous two films. The leather band around the damaged section seems in keeping with Rey's scavenger background
-The fate of the Kylo Ren lightsaber was incredibly well thought out. Rey used that weapon to end Kylo Ren and then healed Ben Solo. And the following sequence with Ben reliving his last moments with his father on Starkiller base? It was an amazing mirror image of how that scene played out in TFA. And then handling of the lightsaber, and to toss it away? I was genuinely surprised and touched by the way it played out. And I can't express enough how much I like the way both Harrison Ford and Adam Driver played it out.
-Leia's lightsaber was a revelation that I didn't realize we would see. Her own status as Rey's teacher at the beginning of the movie cemented the idea that she had been taught by Luke following the events of ROTJ, but until that point had not really devoted her efforts to being a Jedi. But as events demanded, Leia rose to the occasion. When Luke led Rey to the lightsaber on Ahch-To, I thought that it might have been his lightsaber from ROTJ. To see that it was Leia's? That was eye opening. And for Rey to use it at the end of the movie was very fitting.
-Ben using the Skywalker legacy lightsaber seemed equally fitting. Although the way he got it in time to fight the Knights of Ren was somewhat puzzling. Did Rey get it to Ben through a telekinetic throw, or was it a situation like earlier in the film, when Kylo Ren snatched the necklace from Rey through their Force link?
-I liked how Rey was able to use both lightsabers to deflect the Force lightning. It harkened back to how Mace Windu came so close to defeating Palpatine in ROTS by deflecting his own power back at him.
-Rey's new lightsaber was a great point to get to. Again, it was a reminder of Rey's history as a scavenger. It was linkage to Rey's staff which had been the source of so much fan conjecture (anyone else remember the whole theory that it must have been Darth Plagueis's staff?), but was really just a big part of her identity and life on Jakku. For the blade to be yellow? The history of fans *thinking* there were yellow lightsabers back to the OT era because of some of the toys. The Jedi Temple guards also had yellow lightsabers during the Clone Wars era. So why shouldn't Rey?
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-Ben using the Skywalker legacy lightsaber seemed equally fitting. Although the way he got it in time to fight the Knights of Ren was somewhat puzzling. Did Rey get it to Ben through a telekinetic throw, or was it a situation like earlier in the film, when Kylo Ren snatched the necklace from Rey through their Force link?
They definitely set up through the film that the way there bond worked, they were able to interact physically, like Vader's helmet showing up on Kejimi and the fact that they were able to duel at all!
-Rey's new lightsaber was a great point to get to. Again, it was a reminder of Rey's history as a scavenger. It was linkage to Rey's staff which had been the source of so much fan conjecture (anyone else remember the whole theory that it must have been Darth Plagueis's staff?), but was really just a big part of her identity and life on Jakku. For the blade to be yellow? The history of fans *thinking* there were yellow lightsabers back to the OT era because of some of the toys. The Jedi Temple guards also had yellow lightsabers during the Clone Wars era. So why shouldn't Rey?
I really liked how she made her own lightsaber...I now need an FX version of that saber and I want it to turn on the same way!
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I'm nerding out on the ships in the Allied Peoples Fleet (as I am calling it). I’m trying to ID Sidon Ithano’ s Meson Martinet based on the unaffiliated characters listed in the Visual Dictionary. The Martinet is a subject of confusion from various sources, which is noted on wookiepedia. The only full image of the ship was from the Lego game, which may or may not be official.
I’ve noted a few others from the visual dictionary that fly the type of ships pictured. Does anyone recognize the three mystery ships circled in orange, light green, and light blue? I selected those as candidates for the Meson Martinet.
(https://i.ibb.co/5MXVD7v/Allied-Peoples-fleet.png)
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The one circled in red looks like a U-wing to me.
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The one circled in red looks like a U-wing to me.
yep, sorry. That one is labeled, sort of if you hash through my half-assed notation system.
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There was a U Wing like ship in the movie that had no wings to it I noticed.
I liked that the ship Finn and Rose used to land on the FO command ship was UWing-ish in the cockpit design and struck me as maybe in the same family, especially since the FO second officer called it a “troop transport” specifically. Perhaps the Alliance/Resistance’s response to landing craft. Would love to build one of those bad boys up. Gotta get that book for the details.
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There were a number of ships in the Rebel fleet that were some nice easter eggs. The ones I found?
-Sphyrna Class Corvettes (seen on Rebels and in Rogue One (the Lightmaker ramming attack on the Star Destroyers)
-U-Wing is definitely in there (saw this first in the trailer shot of the Falcon and the fleet)
-VCX-100 - they sure do like plopping the Ghost into space battles now
-Kuat Drive Yards EF76 Nebulon-B Escort Frigate
-Lancer class pursuit ship (like the Shadowcaster from Rebels)
-Wookie Auzituck class gunship (first seen in Rebels, IIRC)
-Mon Calamari MC 75 (same model as Admiral Raddus's flagship in Rogue One, the Profundity)
-MG-100 Starfortress bombers
The Rebel troop transport definitely had me puzzled. It looks like a U-Wing cockpit on top of a big box, almost like the main hold of the Eravana (Han Solo's freighter at the beginning of TFA).
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There were a number of ships in the Rebel fleet that were some nice easter eggs. The ones I found?
The Rebel troop transport definitely had me puzzled. It looks like a U-Wing cockpit on top of a big box, almost like the main hold of the Eravana (Han Solo's freighter at the beginning of TFA).
People have noted that Han's TFA freighter does appear to be in the low center of the shot.
Also this dude on twitter and his commentators have done quite a bit of work ID-ing ships. My questions here are about ships they have not yet addressed.
https://twitter.com/AdmiralNick22/status/1186349220757786629
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The Colossus from Resistance is also supposed to be there... I’m having a tough time pinpointing it specifically but it’s a big ship.
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As one of 8 people watching Resistance I really hope that's true. I love the look of that ship/base.
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I had heard that bit about the Colossus, too, but I can’t find it. One person tried pointing it out over at SWNN, but it was a Starfortress bomber.
Another Easter egg that I haven’t heard referenced? On Pasana there was a familiar creature dating back to ROTJ, and more recently the Jabba’s Palace playset. Because I spotted a Jerba carrying a bunch of stuff at the festival site.
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I caught it again Thursday night. I still like it, and having heard there could be a 3 hour long "director's cut" out there, I would totally geek out to see that!
Did my ears play a trick on me, or did Lando tell Jannah he is from the "Colt" system??? :D
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Another Easter egg that I haven’t heard referenced? On Pasana there was a familiar creature dating back to ROTJ, ...
I saw Lando as well! :D
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Did my ears play a trick on me, or did Lando tell Jannah he is from the "Colt" system??? :D
I thought he said "gold".
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The extended cut will reveal that Lando was also Force sensitive from his Psychic Readers Network days.
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Because I spotted a Jerba carrying a bunch of stuff at the festival site.
Cool, is that officially a jerba on Passana? The visual guide doesn't mention it. Theres a similar furry think on Kijimi. I cant really tell if those two are the same creatures though.
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I caught it again Thursday night. I still like it, and having heard there could be a 3 hour long "director's cut" out there, I would totally geek out to see that!
Oh no, please don't buy into that conspiracy theorist BS. Someone on reddit started a rumor about some JJ Abrams cut, and that the studio stepped in to make drastic changes to the movie. It's the same kind of nonsense that happened when DC movie fans started clamoring for a so-called "Snyder cut" of the Justice League movie.
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The extended cut will reveal that Lando was also Force sensitive from his Psychic Readers Network days.
I have a funny story about that relating to the GPS constellation!
Recently, SVN 38 of the GPS constellation was decommissioned. When it was launched, the engineers had a tradition of having a copy of the Weekly World news around the ops floor, which always had an ad for Billy Dee's psychic hotline in it. Due to all the moving parts and variables with a space launch, there's always some sort of delay (I've been working in GPS for nearly 12 years and I've never seen a launch NOT pushed for something), so one of the operators had said "What does Billy Dee say about this?" That was when the nickname for that SV became "Billy Dee"! One of the engineers sent a letter to Billy Dee Williams and he sent back a signed headshot wishing all the folks at the 2nd Space Ops Squadron good luck, and that photo was on the ops floor when we decommissioned SVN 38.
I wish I had known that story when I met Billy Dee Williams at Comic Con a couple of years ago.
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Oh no, please don't buy into that conspiracy theorist BS. Someone on reddit started a rumor about some JJ Abrams cut, and that the studio stepped in to make drastic changes to the movie. It's the same kind of nonsense that happened when DC movie fans started clamoring for a so-called "Snyder cut" of the Justice League movie.
No, I am not buying into any conspiracies, but I totally believe Disney would hedge their bets after "Solo" underperformed by making sure the movie could squeeze one more showing in per day to bolster the numbers, rather than play as a 3-hour movie with some time for scenes to breathe and plot threads to come to a conclusion. I am not saying it was done for any of the conspiracy reasons, just the number-crunching Disney math. I am leery of thinking that it was done behind JJ's back, but I can buy that in the end he was not in charge of the final edit. The most telling part for me is that JJ intended for Finn to tell Rey he is Force-sensitive. If he was going to cut the reveal, I have to assume he would go back and cut the teases leading up to it as well. That is kind of basic storytelling there.
To me this is totally different from the Snyder Cut situation, which would be more analagous to what happened to the Gareth Edwards cut of "Rogue One" before Tony Gilroy reworked it with rewrites and reshoots.
This is more like Peter Jackson's "extended cut" of the LOTR films, where the vision behind the story is the same but things are allowed to unfold a little less breathlessly. I would happily plunk down cash either in a special theatrical run or a home video release to get to see a "less compressed" version of the film.
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I have heard there’s a lot extra footage out there and hope they are able to bundle it all someday. I’d love to see things that got cut like the aforementioned forcey Finn stuff. I don’t necessarily need it integrated or anything. I just love cut footage. I’m boggled at how much Jackson cut from the Hobbit films.
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I have heard there’s a lot extra footage out there and hope they are able to bundle it all someday. I’d love to see things that got cut like the aforementioned forcey Finn stuff. I don’t necessarily need it integrated or anything. I just love cut footage. I’m boggled at how much Jackson cut from the Hobbit films.
I'm boggled at how much Jackson put into the Hobbit films.
On another note, my wish was granted by the Resistance cartoon with an appearance of Sidon Ithano and his Meson Martinet. Now I have to find that ship in ROS.
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Well according to the leaks from last summer, the movie was supposed to begin with that Luke/Leia training scene, which was much longer than what we got. So there's at least an extended scene of that.
Also, the tank thing Lando is in at Pasaana is reused from concept art from TFA!
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I'm highly skeptical of this rumored JJ cut of TROS mainly because this whole thing was started by some rando on reddit. Seriously, when did reddit become the arbiter of all knowledge where any person can put up a post in a thread and it becomes fact?
Is there a lot left on the cutting room floor? Absolutely and I hope to see most of it on the Blu Ray release.
Did the Mouse try to get the runtime down to allow for more showings and to get more box office revenue? Possible, but I doubt that they went behind the director's and writers' back to do those edits.
Will we see a extended cut of TROS released by Disney? Doubtful since that didn't happen with any other Star wars movie, but I wouldn't mind seeing one....I expect a fan edit incorporating as much of the deleted scenes as possible to be available on the internet at some point. (Could someone forward this to Adywan?)
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Regarding a JJ cut... I have noticed coincidentally that all the dialogue in the movie is pretty tight in a good way. There's a lot of fast conversations with few lulls to slow things down. I've even wondered if they reshot some scenes just to produce off the tight dialogue as it feels like they started with a tight pace to begin with. That or they just got really lucky.
On an unrelated topic... I was originally not pleased to see another desert planet in the original trailer. However, I felt the time spent on Pasaana depicted such a different culture with the celebration and the pace so moved quickly that I was happy we weren't spending another 30-40% of a movie on yet another desert planet. In my five viewings I've never been reminded of Tatooine or Jakku. Pasaana just feels like Pasaana.
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Oh boy. Here we go.
I definitely wanted Luke to visit or haunt Ren a little bit. A lot of the rest of this sounds really bad. Fixing Ren's face with smelted Mandalorian armor? Who let the 13 year old fan boy write a script? I wonder if they meant fixing Ren's helmet.
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/eoaxdn/robert_meyer_burnett_reviews_an_early_draft_of/
https://news.avclub.com/turns-out-colin-trevorrows-version-of-star-wars-episod-1841002112
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The breakdown I just read in that article does not sound like a better movie than Rise of the Skywalker. I think maybe I'm just an older OT guy and younger people aren't into it, but I rather liked most of the new movie, particularly that Palpatine was pulling the strings the whole time. Despite Darth Vader, Palps is really the core villain from Phantom Menace all the way to Return of the Jedi, I didn't have any problem with the idea that he was basically behind the First Order and had bigger plans the whole time.
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The dude gushing over that had me loling in my mind. Don’t get me wrong, I can see parts of it being ok... but some of it is so comical too. Hell it sounds like a dark side version of ESB in many ways. Some of it sounds like it’s just trying really too hard to impress some 45 year old cosplayer and stuff... I am glad we got what we got.
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I think the major problem with the sequel trilogy is they didn't map out all three movies at the start. Things like Rey's lineage should have been set in stone before TFA filmed. While Lucas' plans changed along they way, he really didn't know he would get to do more than the first movie and made adjustments after the success of ANH. Disney knew from the date of purchase that they were doing a trilogy. Ultimately, it ended up where I thought it would. I figured Rey would be a Skywalker as to carry the lineage through the three trilogies. While not one by blood, she still adopted the name. My thoughts after TFA was that she would be Luke's daughter and marry Finn, who had no last name, as to carry the Skywalker name into any future movies.
I'm a bit skeptical on the leaked script. I think it may be a mixture of truth and fan fic.
I enjoyed the movie overall. I guess we may see more explanation through novels and comics. I would like to know if Palpatine was in a cloned body or if actually survived ROTJ somehow. The other thing I want to know about is Snoke. I could have sworn I read something post TFA that stated that Snoke had been around before Palpatine became Chancellor. That is certainly still a possibility, but I would like to see where he came from and how Palpatine used him.
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The other thing I want to know about is Snoke. I could have sworn I read something post TFA that stated that Snoke had been around before Palpatine became Chancellor. That is certainly still a possibility, but I would like to see where he came from and how Palpatine used him.
Yeah, it was stated somwhere in canon that Palpatine knew of Snoke and was unconcerned for some reason.
Also, Leia and Han have been dropping Snoke's name like everyone knows about him.
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I still can't believe Snoke didn't end up being Plagueis. The character designs are similar, the cheating death and relationship to the Emperor is clear and obvious... it would have made the whole Return-of-Palpatine plot line more believable to just roll with that.
I was traveling for much of the time since TROS came out, and didn't want to post longer opinions from my phone, but I'd just say that I enjoyed it a lot. I don't know if it was great or anything, but I do think that JJ Abrams had a nearly impossible task, to tie up a 9 film arc in a way that made sense, to pay homage to earlier films and a ton of characters, to work around the passing of Carrie Fisher, and to do something big and exciting. I think he did a stellar job, even if it's not going to make half of the fans happy. It's weird to me how many people seem to totally hate it.
While I think the planet killing cannons on the Star Destroyers was a moderate twist on a tired idea, and just a massive fleet of twelve bazillion Star Destroyers and troops would have been a less over the top thread.... I particularly loved all the Sith Temple stuff... the Emperor being back really worked for me and I felt like he brought a gravitas to the threat that the First Order just never had... I wish they hadn't killed off Luke and he could have had a bigger role, and I honestly would have been fine with Ben being redeemed and then also surviving... and him and Rey living happily ever after to rebuild the galaxy and the Jedi Order but I get why they did it this way.
So yeah - as a 39 year old OT purist, my take was that it was far better than TLJ and did the best it could to wrap things up.
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I still can't believe Snoke didn't end up being Plagueis.
Post-viewing, I thought it would've been a nice twist if Palpatine was revealed to be Plagueis.
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Is there any example in Legends where a Sith apprentice became the Sith Master without killing their master?
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Post-viewing, I thought it would've been a nice twist if Palpatine was revealed to be Plagueis.
Palpatine: "I am every Sith!"
So there you go...
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Is there any example in Legends where a Sith apprentice became the Sith Master without killing their master?
I would say the closest I can think of is Darth Vectivus. Not enough back story on him to know if he actually killed his Master to become the Sith Master or if he had an apprentice. Since he was supposed to be in the Bane line of Sith, one would assume he passed his knowledge on to someone. It does say he died surrounded by family and friends, so it does not appear he was killed by an apprentice, but their is no mention of him having an apprentice.
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Is there any example in Legends where a Sith apprentice became the Sith Master without killing their master?
I would say the closest I can think of is Darth Vectivus... he died surrounded by family and friends
:o :o :o
Surrounded by family and friends? What kind of sith lord is that?
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He’s a family man. They don’t all choke their families.
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After percolating on it a little bit, I still don’t get Palapatines whole game plan. Originally he wants to bring Rey from Jakku to Exogol, ok. Then Snoke gets a hold of her and seems like he wants to kill her, or at least have Kylo Ren do it. Then Palpatine tells Kylo to kill her too. Then when she shows up he’s all like, oh I wanted you here the whole time, huh?
Was he just lying to Rey? Was he hoping Rey would kill Kylo or something? Why not just tell him, bring her to me?
Obviously having them both there worked out well for him, at first, but he had no idea that was going to happen it seemed clear.
Don’t get the going back and forth on kidnapping/killing her.
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I can appreciate the level of confusion about the various machinations. I think it might boil down to something more simple. Dark side masters (Sith or not) seem to want to play their underlings against one another. Spurring rivalries and manipulation seem to be their way in order to achieve strength and power.
The relationship between Snoke and Kylo Ren was characterized as abusive, with Snoke demeaning him and unleashing his power against Kylo Ren at points (the Force lightning in TLJ). Eventually Kylo Ren deceives Snoke in the throne room and has his revenge, cutting Snoke in half. Palpatine seems to have conducted himself similarly - stoke conflict by sending Kylo Ren after Rey. It could serve as a test of either of them. Kylo Ren would draw Rey out of hiding, and in the inevitable conflict one of them would prove themselves more powerful than the other. And the one who emerges from that could serve as Palpatine's heir.
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I look at it as Palpatine was grooming Kyle Ren in order to possess him, even to the point of killing Rey. When Rey showed up at Exogal, he was trying to manipulate her so he could possess her. When a redeemed Ben Solo showed up to help Rey confront him, he sensed that they were a dyad in the force and was able to use that to restore his current body.
He lied to Ben Solo to manipulate him, just as he lied to Rey to manipulate her, just as he lied to Anakin Skywalker to manipulate him, and lied to Count Dooku to manipulate him, as well as Darth Maul, etc.
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Is there any example in Legends where a Sith apprentice became the Sith Master without killing their master?
I would say the closest I can think of is Darth Vectivus... he died surrounded by family and friends
:o :o :o
Surrounded by family and friends? What kind of sith lord is that?
It is a bit of an oddball piece of Legends. It is in one of the novels where Jacen Solo is becoming Darth Caedus. Lumiya was hiding out on an asteroid. Vectivus, before becoming a Sith, was part of a mining conglomerate. He discovered a dark side nexus on an asteroid in field being mined. He essentially shutdown operations and bankrupted a company in order to keep the asteroid hidden. After find the nexus, he sought out the Sith and was trained by an unnamed master, and eventually became master himself, through means not detailed in the novels. His Sith spirit inhabited the asteroid when Lumiya found it. He had a force ability pretty similar to what we have seen in TLJ and TROS. He could project phantom images that could interact with someone. He has some interesting conversations with Lumiya and Jacen concerning Sith not have to be evil in the traditional sense. Hence, having family and friends. I haven't read the novels in years, but it was an interesting take.
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I look at it as Palpatine was grooming Kyle Ren in order to possess him, even to the point of killing Rey. When Rey showed up at Exogal, he was trying to manipulate her so he could possess her. When a redeemed Ben Solo showed up to help Rey confront him, he sensed that they were a dyad in the force and was able to use that to restore his current body.
He lied to Ben Solo to manipulate him, just as he lied to Rey to manipulate her, just as he lied to Anakin Skywalker to manipulate him, and lied to Count Dooku to manipulate him, as well as Darth Maul, etc.
This is it in a nutshell. Palpatine wanted Rey when she was left on Jakku, presumably to groom her to be the next Sith. When that failed, he focused on Ben through Snoke. I would really like to see that back story now since I think it has changed quite a bit since TFA came out. When Palpatine contacts the FO fleet, he said the princess of Alderaan has disturbed his plans, ie. getting Ben to turn back to the light. At that point, he figures his best choice is to turn Rey since she has always skirted the dark side. Honestly, he would have been fine with turning either one. It just goes along with what we see in the prequels, Palpatine was always searching for a better apprentice. With Ben and Rey, he wants to turn one, which means the other needs to die because they are a threat.
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Not that this is an issue on this forum, but this comic made me laugh...
(https://i.imgur.com/F9eP249.jpg)
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I took some time and cracked open all my ROTS 3.75" and 6" figures, and there really aren't too many of them.
I'm not sure if the Sith Troopers were originally going to have a larger role, but I got a little annoyed opening these figures (got the deluxe versions) with all their extra weird weapons (?). I'm the sucker for paying the extra cash, but as far as I can tell none of these extra weapons were in the movie in any way.
The figures themselves were great, but if you haven't already bought them I would opt for the cheaper, non accessorized versions.
There should be a parody where the sith troopers have to go out onto the hull of the destroyer with their red sith yard work accessories to clean up after the space horse invasion.
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Not that this is an issue on this forum, but this comic made me laugh...
(https://i.imgur.com/F9eP249.jpg)
Hell, on YouTube that's an effective business model.
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After percolating on it a little bit, I still don’t get Palapatines whole game plan. Originally he wants to bring Rey from Jakku to Exogol, ok. Then Snoke gets a hold of her and seems like he wants to kill her, or at least have Kylo Ren do it. Then Palpatine tells Kylo to kill her too. Then when she shows up he’s all like, oh I wanted you here the whole time, huh?
Was he just lying to Rey? Was he hoping Rey would kill Kylo or something? Why not just tell him, bring her to me?
Obviously having them both there worked out well for him, at first, but he had no idea that was going to happen it seemed clear.
Don’t get the going back and forth on kidnapping/killing her.
I was talking with a friend about this. His opinion (which I agree with) is that Palpatine has played out both sides as long as we've known him. Dating back to the prequels, he's setting up back-up plans and multiple cross purpose strategies to keep several options open to him. Why try to have Padme killed if he needs her to tempt Anakin? He's got plans inside of plans inside of plans. If Rey dies, he makes Ben his apprentice. If Ben dies, he turns Rey. He's better off with one of them dead, so why not play them against each other. As an added bonus, whoever survived would have proven themselves to be the stronger candidate.
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After percolating on it a little bit, I still don’t get Palapatines whole game plan. Originally he wants to bring Rey from Jakku to Exogol, ok. Then Snoke gets a hold of her and seems like he wants to kill her, or at least have Kylo Ren do it. Then Palpatine tells Kylo to kill her too. Then when she shows up he’s all like, oh I wanted you here the whole time, huh?
Was he just lying to Rey? Was he hoping Rey would kill Kylo or something? Why not just tell him, bring her to me?
Obviously having them both there worked out well for him, at first, but he had no idea that was going to happen it seemed clear.
Don’t get the going back and forth on kidnapping/killing her.
I was talking with a friend about this. His opinion (which I agree with) is that Palpatine has played out both sides as long as we've known him. Dating back to the prequels, he's setting up back-up plans and multiple cross purpose strategies to keep several options open to him. Why try to have Padme killed if he needs her to tempt Anakin? He's got plans inside of plans inside of plans. If Rey dies, he makes Ben his apprentice. If Ben dies, he turns Rey. He's better off with one of them dead, so why not play them against each other. As an added bonus, whoever survived would have proven themselves to be the stronger candidate.
Maybe a sith lord is the opposite of a good parent. Making everything into Mortal Kombat and encouraging everyone to fight and get pissed off is just what they do.
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This one bit isn't really related to TROS, but this detail came out in the Visual Dictionary for The Rise Of Skywalker about a major location in The Force Awakens. Ready for it?
Starkiller Base was built on the planet ILUM (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ilum)! The planet appeared first in the Clone Wars microseries, and again in The Clone Wars animated series. Then it turned up in the 'Ahsoka' novel, where she discovered that the Empire was strip mining the planet. And the First Order followed in the footsteps of the Empire, building Starkiller Base there because of all of the kyber crystal deposits within the planet.
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If you play Jedi Fallen Order, there's a mission on Illum where you have to retrieve a new kyber crystal. Towards the end of the mission, there's a shot of what looks like the trench that Poe has to fly through at the end of TFA and if you return to Illum later in the game, a huge chunk has been carved out of the planet and it looks eerily like Starkiller base.
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This one bit isn't really related to TROS, but this detail came out in the Visual Dictionary for The Rise Of Skywalker about a major location in The Force Awakens. Ready for it?
Starkiller Base was built on the planet ILUM (https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Ilum)! The planet appeared first in the Clone Wars microseries, and again in The Clone Wars animated series. Then it turned up in the 'Ahsoka' novel, where she discovered that the Empire was strip mining the planet. And the First Order followed in the footsteps of the Empire, building Starkiller Base there because of all of the kyber crystal deposits within the planet.
Nice work!
On another note I'm discovering OT circumstances that connect to ROS. I have never applied any scrutiny to the fact that Vader/Anakin didn't dissipate from the armor yet his force ghost is present 6-8 hours later. So now we have Leia, who passes only to disappear beneath her shroud after Ben passes. So I guess that lines up.
Matt (Jedi Moses) also pointed out that the Palaptine tells Luke to "strike me down". I've never considered that Palpatine might have been ok with that. Some might argue against the direction of the conclusion of ROS, but to me its an interesting question about what Palpatine had originally planned. I'm neither for or against individuals becoming all the sith or all the jedi, but its interesting.
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I won't say they stole the delayed Force Ghost thing from the EU/Legends since I doubt many in charge are well versed in it, but back when they had the Jacen Solo turn to the darkside story line, Jacen killed Mara Jade and she left her body behind hoping that Luke et al. could solve her murder. At her funeral, her body finally disappeared into the Force and she later appeared as a Force Ghost.
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I won't say they stole the delayed Force Ghost thing from the EU/Legends since I doubt many in charge are well versed in it, but back when they had the Jacen Solo turn to the darkside story line, Jacen killed Mara Jade and she left her body behind hoping that Luke et al. could solve her murder. At her funeral, her body finally disappeared into the Force and she later appeared as a Force Ghost.
The EU just stole it from Vader/Anakin anyway. ;)
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I won't say they stole the delayed Force Ghost thing from the EU/Legends since I doubt many in charge are well versed in it, but back when they had the Jacen Solo turn to the darkside story line, Jacen killed Mara Jade and she left her body behind hoping that Luke et al. could solve her murder. At her funeral, her body finally disappeared into the Force and she later appeared as a Force Ghost.
The EU just stole it from Vader/Anakin anyway. ;)
Lucas muddied that one up to much with the special editions and using Hayden instead of Shaw. Hard to tell what actually happened with all of that.
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There's a shot of Anakin's cremation where the camera shows smoke rising from Vader's mask that is supposed to be significant. Lucas kept it pretty vague on purpose.
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I won't say they stole the delayed Force Ghost thing from the EU/Legends since I doubt many in charge are well versed in it, but back when they had the Jacen Solo turn to the darkside story line, Jacen killed Mara Jade and she left her body behind hoping that Luke et al. could solve her murder. At her funeral, her body finally disappeared into the Force and she later appeared as a Force Ghost.
The EU just stole it from Vader/Anakin anyway. ;)
Lucas muddied that one up to much with the special editions and using Hayden instead of Shaw. Hard to tell what actually happened with all of that.
I'm not sure how to reply to this. I would actually argue that the issue of Anakin's ghost and Leia's ghost has no bearing on the actor depicted for Anakin. If it helps clarify I would rewind to 1983 and view this topic in that context. Either way, the Vader armor/clothing never flattens out and half a day later he's a ghost just like Obi-wan and Yoda who both seemed to transition immediately to be one with the force.
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the Vader armor/clothing never flattens out and half a day later he's a ghost just like Obi-wan and Yoda who both seemed to transition immediately to be one with the force.
My friends and I argued about this a lot back in the day. I think we all kind of ended up going back to the "he's more machine than man now". The bits and armor that are left behind and burned are "Darth Vader" and Anakin couldn't truly free himself and surrender to the Force until "Vader" was destroyed/burned.
In a way, "Anakin" was trapped inside the armor/Vader and it wasn't until the armor was destroyed that he was free.
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the Vader armor/clothing never flattens out and half a day later he's a ghost just like Obi-wan and Yoda who both seemed to transition immediately to be one with the force.
My friends and I argued about this a lot back in the day. I think we all kind of ended up going back to the "he's more machine than man now". The bits and armor that are left behind and burned are "Darth Vader" and Anakin couldn't truly free himself and surrender to the Force until "Vader" was destroyed/burned.
In a way, "Anakin" was trapped inside the armor/Vader and it wasn't until the armor was destroyed that he was free.
That might be the case too. Either way the force ghost requirements are probably more pliable than we would guess.
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I have heard there’s a lot extra footage out there and hope they are able to bundle it all someday. I’d love to see things that got cut like the aforementioned forcey Finn stuff. I don’t necessarily need it integrated or anything. I just love cut footage. I’m boggled at how much Jackson cut from the Hobbit films.
I just saw ROS again for my sixth time. I have been paying attention to Finn's forcey moments for a while now. What is strange is that the force doesn't really make him better at anything. He's probably equal to Poe in using a hand held blaster but he's still just ok at running the cannons on the falcon. He definitely feels important things like the arrival of Ren on Pasaana and death of Rey, and the scene with Jannah implies the force might genuinely convict people to turn against harming innocent people. Maybe He and Jannah are supposed to be new church of the force people rather than actual force users.
Also, the Trevorrow script had some character that was a sith creature almost like a sith "yoda" that had been around since before Palpatine. That is a context that makes all the previous stories less important. I know some people are concerned about Palpatine's return cheapening Vader's sacrifice, but that Trevorrow sith creature would have shafted Palpatine and the rule of two. That would have been a total bomb.
Also, this is random, but the destruction of the sith "arena" scene reminds me of of this classic Daffy Duck episode where everyone throws garbage at Elmer Fudd's dog. It's stupid but I laugh every time I see this moment in ROS because I can’t avoid thinking of that stupid dog getting blasted with garbage.
To Duck or Not to Duck (1943)
https://youtu.be/wQywdYKur1Q?t=242
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I do sort of feel like the Sequel Trilogy takes Vader's "sacrifice" with a grain of salt. I read a bit from an ethicist once that really put that into perspective. Vader killing the Emperor does not make up for all the bad he's done. It would be like if Hitler was on trial, and the defense used the argument that he was redeemed because he did the right thing once...to save a family member. Kind of not that impressive for someone who killed with impunity for decades, and oversaw the destruction of an entire planet of people with no objections.
Anyways I really like that the Emperor was the root of evil for ROS, but I wish there had been better signals that would have made the reveal make sense. I like it, don't get me wrong. For the Emperor to be the true villain from I-VI, and then have some other villain who's pretty much the same (Snoke) didn't feel really revolutionary. I did like the idea of Snoke being killed in TLJ though. And having Palpatine be the puppet master for Snoke made a lot of sense.
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I guess I don't subscribe to the "you can only be a force ghost if you have done more good than evil" mentality. It's not like the universe has some measurement process to evaluate your good deeds vs. bad. In the Christian faith you can be a terrible Sinner all your life, but if you truly regret those sins and ask for forgiveness, you can be redeemed. I always thought of Vader's sacrifice the same way. Caring about something more than yourself and the willingness to do the right thing in that moment does offset whatever evil deeds preceded it. Now who taught him how to do it? That's a different question...
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Wouldn't it have been great if the old woman Rey meets at the end of ROS was Camie?
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Wouldn't it have been great if the old woman Rey meets at the end of ROS was Camie?
Easy enough to head-canon that.
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Old woman: Who are you?
Rey: Rey....Skywalker.
Old woman: Wormie's kid?
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Picked up the Target exclusive version of the Blu-Ray the other day
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Picked up the Target exclusive version of the Blu-Ray the other day
I picked it up at Target this morning. The place was like a ghost town.
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I went with the steelbook from Best Buy. They are only doing curbside pickup.
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No deleted scenes this time? :-[
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No deleted scenes this time? :-[
That gets me thinking one of a couple of things:
1 - They want to quell the nonsense about “The Trevorrow Cut”. Which on it’s own is a ridiculous premise, since Colin Trevorrow was off the movie well before it went into principle photography.
2 - Deleted scenes are being held back for the big Skywalker Saga collection of all 9 movies
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Isn't there a release of all nine movies in one box set already?
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Isn't there a release of all nine movies in one box set already?
I think it’s available for pre-order. Is there a release date for this yet?
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I saw this at Target earlier today on a supply run. Wasn't even looking for it, but Target has a big free standing display by the checkouts. I Was tempted until I saw no deleted scenes. None?! Not shelling out extra money for the base version of this thing. I don't really care about all the extra documentary stuff, so I passed.
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In addition to the final episode of The Clone Wars and the first episode of the Mandalorian documentary, it looks like TROS will be available on Disney+ on May 4th.