JediDefender.com Forums
Multimedia => TV-9D9 => Topic started by: Jeff on May 26, 2022, 02:56 PM
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LFL announcement:
The Mandalorian and Grogu continue their journey in Season 3 of #TheMandalorian, streaming February 2023 only on Disney+
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The trailer leaked online. Looks pretty good.
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The season three trailer just dropped. Not a lot to see yet, but I’m excited.
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New trailer just dropped (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znsa4Deavgg) with lots of new footage. Looks pretty sweet.
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New trailer just dropped (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znsa4Deavgg) with lots of new footage. Looks pretty sweet.
I am worried that Hasbro saw that first part of the trailer and started planning Mando repaints galore for 2024 already.....
Kidding aside, there were some things in there that I wasn't really expecting to see - was that maybe a tease of Grogu/Order 66 stuff with that Jedi shot?
And the Coruscant/Rebel stuff with the X-Wing Pilot guy - is that finally setting up a revamped "rangers of the new republic" type show?
No sign of Boba Fett though... wonder if he will play into all the Mando stuff or not?
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No sign of Boba Fett though... wonder if he will play into all the Mando stuff or not?
I sure hope not. I hope they leave Boba Fett and Fennec out. Maybe they can be resources that play bit roles like Peli Motto and Greef Karga, but I hope they aren't key characters.
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I am worried that Hasbro saw that first part of the trailer and started planning Mando repaints galore for 2024 already.....
Darth Patrick has those wheels spinning already.
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Since we see Din Djarin and Grogu on Tatooine, coupled with the Armorer's prophecy, I'm pretty sure we're going to see Boba Fett in some capacity.
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I think we have an idea about the general direction of the season. Both trailers have made it clear that Dr Pershing is going to be released. Seeing Coruscant in a post ROTJ time is interesting, too, because I don't really have a good idea of how Coruscant plays into the whole New Republic era. And that shot in the Disney+ version of the trailer with the dismantling of the Star Destroyer was some great eye candy.
Din Djarin has a quest to go on, that much is clear. And seeing Mandalore in a live action show looks like it's going to be among the high points of the season. The caves seem to be where Din Djarin might redeem himself in the eyes of the Tribe. But Bo-Katan considers them a cult, and hold them responsible for the divisions in Mandalorian society that made them vulnerable to the Empire.
I'm wondering about the Mandalorians in the first few shots. Are they survivors from the Nevarro covert? Ever since the final episode of the first season I have wondered what happened to them. It seemed ambiguous. Were they killed by the Imperial Remnant? Did they shed their armor and flee? Was the Armorer telling the truth about their fate? The series has made it clear that Beskar is extremely valuable, and many in the underworld want it. Did the Armorer kill them for their Beskar? I don't think she's completely clear about her intentions.
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Since we see Din Djarin and Grogu on Tatooine, coupled with the Armorer's prophecy, I'm pretty sure we're going to see Boba Fett in some capacity.
It could be that there are some adventures that don't lend themselves well to having Grogu there, so maybe Peli is just babysitting again.
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I’m just going to say it… Grogu should have stayed with Luke and Mando should be on new dangerous quests without simultaneously babysitting a little green kid.
Felt to me like they probably were going to have that happen and then changed it so Grogu stayed because they were scared to have the show move forward without the ever so popular Baby Yoda in it.
Feels like a business decision…
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Grogu should have stayed with Luke
I agree. My daughter would have hated it, but it would have been nice for him to stay with Luke for a little while, at least.
I get that "Lone Wolf and Cub" is the western/samurai type thing they are going for on this show, but it would have been nice to see a season where Mando and Grogu had to deal with being apart instead of getting back together right away again on someone else's show.
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If Mando S3 doesn't start with a 10min montage of the Mando and Grogu side quest in BOBF like how they recapped the prequels in Obi-Wan Kenobi I will be genuinely shocked. There's a lot of information to include for fans who didn't follow the Fett show or gave up after the first few episodes.
As for the story, reversing Grogu's departure so quickly really undermined the emotional stakes they built up. And it seems like Din is trying to rebuild his standing in the clan, even though it was played as an emotional breakthrough for him last season to let go of the dogma and choose his own destiny. I hope the promise of a Filoniverse crossover doesn't derail his apparent character arc.
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I’m just going to say it… Grogu should have stayed with Luke and Mando should be on new dangerous quests without simultaneously babysitting a little green kid.
Grogu is the Mandalorian the show is named for.
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Grogu and Din Djarin are inextricably linked. And it's because Jon Favreau drew upon "Lone Wolf & Cub" as a big inspiration for the series. Din Djarin without Grogu is a very different individual. And it's the bond between them that has led to their joint development as characters.
It was only because of Grogu that Din Djarin removed his helmet and let others see his face. That moment was huge. That episode was called "The Believer". Initially I thought title referred to Mayfeld, and his past with the Empire. But that title is actually about Din Djarin, and his crisis of faith as he chose Grogu over his religion. I suspect that conflict is going to continue as he has to choose between the Children of the Watch, who Bo-Katan referred to as a cult, and the rest of Mandalorian society. He does wield the Darksaber, which could potentially unite the Mandalorian clans. Din Djarin and the Armorer both refer to Grogu as a foundling. So that introduces a whole other dimension to the story. I'm excited to see where this goes.
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Unpopular opinion: both trailers spend a lot of time on Naboo starfighter glam shots. A lot. I like the thing, but I hope season 3 isn't a lot of sitting in that thing, because it's not as cool as the Razor Crest.
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I don't think you'll see Din Djarin and Grogu just sitting in the starfighter for an entire episode. But I bet we'll get a fair share of travelling scenes where they are in it along with at least one air-to-air or space-to-space battle.
I still think it's an impractical vehicle for someone who makes his living as a bounty hunter, but with Di Djarin now the rightful owner of the Darksaber, could his role be changing?
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Yeah I hate that thing. Feels like a guy who needs a big truck bought a Mazda Miata.
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My favorite part of S2 Mandalorian was all the bounty hunting he did
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I'm willing to let it play out. For all we know, the N-1 will get blown-up in Season 3 and Mando will move on to his third ship (giving Hasbro another opportunity to get $150-$300 from us).
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That's exactly what I'm guessing.
Big truck in wreck.
Need new car asap. Buy a miata.
Toy company sells expensive toy of miata.
It gets wrecked.
Now purchase a new big truck.
Zero outrage from me. Can't wait for souped up N1 and it'll be fun to see his "new Razor Crest"
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Yeah I hate that thing. Feels like a guy who needs a big truck bought a Mazda Miata.
Ha! I just noticed this. Totally agree.
After Mando met Boba Fett and the Razor Crest was destroyed, I honestly thought he was going to "inherit" Slave-1 Boba's Firespray at the end of the season. I guess there's still time for that to happen.
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I think a Mandalorian Gauntlet class ship might be in his future. They sure do love showing those shots of it being pursued by TIE Interceptors in the tv spots!
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Well, I think this season is off to a good start!
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I think they had the BoBF crew helping on the first episode. A whole bunch of random.
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I'm with Dave. I enjoyed it , but it was a lot of stuff crammed in there.
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I enjoyed it , but it was a lot of stuff crammed in there.
Plus it was a really short episode. Lots of tangents but probably only about 32 minutes of run time.
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I think they had the BoBF crew helping on the first episode. A whole bunch of random.
I look at it as a whole lot of set-up. Those pirates are going to be a problem and we got a look at most of the major players.
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I enjoyed the episode. It picked up reasonably well from where TBOBF left off. In fact, I thought that the first scene was actually a flashback... until, of course someone arrived. But the solidarity of the covert during that fight was remarkable. And I think the visual effects were far beyond what we've come to expect in most tv series. I also felt like there were more real sets in play, and I completely forgot about the Volume and that particular production technique.
Storywise? There was a serious amount of place-setting going on. We know what the main quest of the season will be. And there are already side-quests and subplots that are developing. I suspect that in the process of that more things will spring up, and more will get tied together. But the space battle finally cleared up the mystery of the large ship that was seen in some of the trailers. What got me and my kid wondering about the pirates? Could the show be trying to work in a particular pirate who has turned up in both Clone Wars and Rebels? He is one of Dave Filoni's characters, after all.
The thing that has me scratching my head is about the passage of time over the course of the series. Jon Favreau was quoted as saying that the first couple of seasons took place over a span of 1 - 2 years. And that Grogu might have been training with Luke for as long as 2 years. Plus there's time that has elapsed since the end of TBOBF. So are we actually around 9 - 10 years past the events of ROTJ???
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I think they had the BoBF crew helping on the first episode. A whole bunch of random.
I look at it as a whole lot of set-up. Those pirates are going to be a problem and we got a look at most of the major players.
Yeah, I just wish the writing would be better. Greef/Mando and the pirates get in a duel over having a drink in a school??? There could have been a better way to create some conflict with the pirates. Maybe a new or old bounty that Mando had to track down. I'm surprised the surviving pirate didn't take off in a Skittles colored speeder bike. :P
And maybe its just me, but the giant monster battles (giant gator) just seem silly and really didn't have anything to do with the overall story. Mando already knew he had to redeem himself in the pools below the mines so I'm not sure why he had to go back and have The Armorer tell him that again. He went to the space station covert (in BoBF?) and got this info. If they needed to refresh people's memory there could have been a much simpler way of doing this. I guess maybe he is going to enlist this covert later for help, but again I'm not sure there needed to be a giant gator battle. Eh, maybe I'm the only one that thinks these monster battles are a little silly (giant gator, Krayt dragon, BoBf sand best).
I did like the space whales that Grogu spotted while in hyperspace. That was a nice call back. Hopefully these come back around in the Ahsoka live action show if they end up on a quest to find Ezra.
I know Andor is a high bar and aimed at adults, but there wasn't much unnecessary stuff in that show. Each scene added to the whole without serious tangents that left you scratching your head. I'm hoping The Mandalorian can still be kid oriented and fun, but without some of the nonsense we saw in BoBF.
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Mostly loved it, from Emo Bo Katan to Sigmund &the Sea Monster Pirate Captain… ;D
The only thing that struck me as contrived was the stuff with IG-11…dude, just buy a new droid. Especially after he woke up and immediately tried to kill Grogu. That should have put that idea to rest then and there.
I loved seeing the Purgills too…
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Lot of set up indeed…. I thought the episode was pretty milk toast though.
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Pretty cool episode, I thought. I have a couple questions, but obviously will wait for some time to pass.
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Wow.
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Yeah now we’re getting somewhere. This one was cool
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I now kind of want Bo Katan to get the Darksaber back...she's awesome with that thing.
And I don't know who that little cyborg Russian Doll scavenger thing was, but he was a really great original design, which was great to see.
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That was definitely on purpose. They intentionally had him struggle with it before showing her do that. This story line is hopefully setting up for Din to ditch the cult and her to get the Saber back. Maybe he abandons his nonsense and in exchange she abandons the idea that she has to battle him to have it.
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Din and Bo Katan brandishing a darksaber while riding a Mythosaur would be 2023's undisputed galactic power couple. I'm not a fandom relationship guy or anything, but the thought made me laugh.
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Solid episode. I got a little worried when the first part of the episode had pod racing involved, but was glad it was just a setup and not part of the plot.
I'm too am hoping somehow Bo Katan and Din can work together regardless of who is holding the Darksaber. I don't care about a love connection, just an ass kicking connection.
Its interesting to note that everyone calls him "Mando", but when he interacts with other Mandalorians he is Din.
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The evolving nature of the bond between Din Djarin and Bo-Katan is interesting to see. Bo is clearly at a low point. After losing her followers because she didn't claim the Darksaber she seemed to be in a state of despair. But it was interesting to see how Grogu snapped her out of that in order to bring her to help Din. She very quickly reverted back to protecting those around her - Grogu, herself and Din Djarin. And she seems to be opening up to his way of thinking. Sure, it sounded like she was mocking Din for wanting to bathe in the Living Waters of the mines. But the end of the episode made it very clear that the folklore was true. As a result Bo-Katan seems to have been shaken to her core, and her cynicism seems to have been shaken.
SIDE NOTE - How is it that so many people think that Din got pulled under? Call me crazy, but I think if you step into water wearing armor, you're probably going to sink.
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Another enjoyable episode. Definitely have some questions that I'm sure will get answered in an upcoming episode.
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SIDE NOTE - How is it that so many people think that Din got pulled under? Call me crazy, but I think if you step into water wearing armor, you're probably going to sink.
I mean, I’d have to go back and look for a second but I don’t remember him stepping off and sinking, I thought he stood there for a second and then got sucked under. Also, she seemed to be swimming horizontally under the water, not straight down to where he’d have sunk if he just sunk.
There’s a whole exchange in the new episode about the waters being deeper than before because of seismic activity though, so maybe you’re right?
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Could have been some loose ground and it collapsed under Din's weight?
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Could be. But to me it has to actually be shown on the show or said by the creators otherwise we’re just backfilling from the peanut gallery.
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Could be. But to me it has to actually be shown on the show or said by the creators otherwise we’re just backfilling from the peanut gallery.
It's not that important in the long run, I figure. It was just a way to show the mythosaur.
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Probably, good hiding spot for it too.
I just figured the idea was that it pulled him under because no one's ever down there and it was threatened, and then calmed down when it saw Bo Katan.
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Probably, good hiding spot for it too.
Yeah. Bo-Katan (or was it The Armorer) did mention that mythosaurs used to swim in the Living Waters. So perhaps all the mythosaurs' pee in the water was the proof that The Armorer needed to prove Din swam in them. :P
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It looked to me like Din fell straight down into the water. And Bo-Katan's explanation that the Imperial bombing might have caused a collapse seemed plausible in light of all of the damage on the surface. I was struck by how she asked Din if he had seen anything down there, and that he said he had not. As for the water itself? The Armorer pouring the sample into her basin, and how the water reacted seemed to be proof enough to her that they had been in the waters. I suspect that the colors that develop when the water is poured might be signs of Beskar ore that has leached into the water. Besides that, the Armorer seems to have her own supply of the water, since she used it in the first episode of the season, and she has also used it before. Has she been back to Mandalore and not said so?
Bo-Katan's arrival with Din Djarin to the covert seemed to escalate the tensions among them. Paz Vizsla seemed on edge about her presence. And I suspect that past differences between the various Houses and Clans of Mandalore might be the cause of future conflicts. There have been theories that the Armorer is Rook Kast, who was part of the Death Watch sect that supported Maul during the Clone Wars. Her armor resembles the character seen in the Siege of Mandalore, and the horns on her helmet might lead you to think that she was part of Maul's faction. Kast was aligned with House Vizsla at that time. And then to see Bo-Katan welcomed by the Armorer into the tribe after her immersion in the waters? I'm really curious to see where this goes.
I think the big question from this episode is about the Imperial Remnant. Moff Gideon had TIE Fighters. We saw several of those in his Remnant. But the TIE Interceptors and Bombers? That was a serious escalation from what we had seen before. And the storyline with Dr. Pershing and Gideon's former comms officer, Elia Kane (she finally has a name!), seems to be leading towards something developing in the way of another Imperial Remnant faction.
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I've read that this other Imperial warlord could possibly be one who will have a role in another, future live-action Star Wars show (but has been seen in animated shows and books).
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Bo-Katan's arrival with Din Djarin to the covert seemed to escalate the tensions among them. Paz Vizsla seemed on edge about her presence. And I suspect that past differences between the various Houses and Clans of Mandalore might be the cause of future conflicts. There have been theories that the Armorer is Rook Kast, who was part of the Death Watch sect that supported Maul during the Clone Wars. Her armor resembles the character seen in the Siege of Mandalore, and the horns on her helmet might lead you to think that she was part of Maul's faction. Kast was aligned with House Vizsla at that time. And then to see Bo-Katan welcomed by the Armorer into the tribe after her immersion in the waters? I'm really curious to see where this goes.
I need to go back and rewatch some old Clone Wars episodes. I thought Bo Katan started out with Death Watch? Wasn't she tight with Pre Vizsla at the start of the Mando stuff in TCW? And she only left Death Watch after Maul took over because she didn't like Jedi/Sith? I guess that would be why former Death Watch folks would have a grudge against her.
Do we know how Children of the Watch (TM) are related to Death Watch (TCW)? Sometimes I think they are supposed to be the same (like how it was Death Watch Mandalorians who rescued/saved 'lil Din) but then in TCW the Death Watch dudes took their helmets off and weren't bitching about it. I guess maybe the Children of the Watch were former Death Watch members who dove deep into old ways in an effort to get Mando civilization back or something?
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I need to go back and rewatch some old Clone Wars episodes. I thought Bo Katan started out with Death Watch? Wasn't she tight with Pre Vizsla at the start of the Mando stuff in TCW? And she only left Death Watch after Maul took over because she didn't like Jedi/Sith? I guess that would be why former Death Watch folks would have a grudge against her.
I just perused Bo-Katan's wiki page and you pretty much have it correct, Jeff.
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The Mandalorians that rescued Din Djarin as a child wore the Death Watch sigil on their armor. It would seem that the Children of the Watch are part of that movement.
I think the whole dynamic of Death Watch vs the loyalists who were aligned with House Kryze and the throne are the big conflict in Mandalorian society. I think those lingering tensions may be a factor moving forward. And perhaps Din Djarin can help end that conflict.
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Was it just me or was the whole Dr. Pershing side story incredibly long and boring, and at this point it seems totally irrelevant too? I'm hopeful all that time spent on that side plot ends up mattering later.
I want more Mando, Bo Katan, and Children of the Watch action.
And I think Din just accidentally stepped off the stairs and sank in to the Living Waters. My guess is that the bombing damaged the stairs and created a big hole that he unexpectedly dropped in to. It didn't seem like the Mythosaur was all that close to the surface and all that active - just chilling about halfway down.
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I didn't necessarily think they did a great job with the Pershing story, but am absolutely intrigued to learn more about him. Also thought it was cool to see how the New Republic dealt with ex imps. That being said, I agree there needs to be a payout past what they just showed us. I assume there's more with the Mon Cal dude at end. I don't need the show to be just Mando, but don't want more episodes that are 80% not Mandos.
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I think the Pershing subplot was taking on a few things - the situation for ex-Imperials was one. The state of the New Republic was another - is it a step in the right direction? Or are they doomed to make the same mistakes as the Old Republic? And then there's the situation with ex-Imperials like Elia Kane. She seems to have been assigned to tie up loose ends with Dr. Pershing - witness the way she maxed out the device that he was hooked up to at the end of that part of the episode. Oh, and it sounds like Moff Gideon has escaped. All of this seemed like place-setting for what's to come later in the seaon, and possibly in other shows that are in development.
I also enjoyed seeing more of Coruscant in live action. That plaza where Pershing and Kane were having space popsicles is one that we've seen before in Clone Wars. And some of the cityscapes seemed to be straight out of ATTACK OF THE CLONES. Stylistically I liked how Coruscant in this episode was somewhat reminiscent of Coruscant as seen in ANDOR. And that Pershing's cubicle seemed pretty reminiscent of Syril Karn's cubicle in ANDOR. It all rhymes, right?
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I think this episode is setting up other series. I think the Warlord could be Thrawn, which I assume would be featured in Ahsoka...
In the first episode, there is convo about Marshall Dune and how she was recruited by the New Republic. Rumors say that Carano and Disney made amends (won't believe it until I see official word), so maybe the Rangers spin-off could still be in the works? I would think a Rangers spin-off would show the bureaucracy of the New Republic and how that helped usher in the the formation of the First Order.
But I agree that it's weird that The Mandalorian shifted from its main storyline to show what's going on with Pershing and the New Republic. Kind of felt like Book of Boba Fett when they spent some episodes with Din, Luke, and Grogu.
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I think the Pershing subplot was taking on a few things - the situation for ex-Imperials was one. The state of the New Republic was another - is it a step in the right direction? Or are they doomed to make the same mistakes as the Old Republic? And then there's the situation with ex-Imperials like Elia Kane. She seems to have been assigned to tie up loose ends with Dr. Pershing - witness the way she maxed out the device that he was hooked up to at the end of that part of the episode. Oh, and it sounds like Moff Gideon has escaped. All of this seemed like place-setting for what's to come later in the seaon, and possibly in other shows that are in development.
I'm hopeful they were setting up future stuff, but the pace of the Pershing content was brutally slow.
I liked how the quickly dropped the Moff Gideon reference which let us know what's going on, without a long story associated with it. If they were tying to tie up loose ends, or introduce new characters, etc. I think they could have done it a whole lot more concise way.
I'll reserve my judgement until later in the season to see how it all pans out. In the moment some of the Andor stuff was kind of slow (Aldhani) but after the season was done and I rewatched it all it was really well done. I don't think Mando Season 3 is that well put together, but I'm hopeful that everything in these stories ultimately will matter and they're not just wasting our time with popsicles by the mountain top and biscuit rations.
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I'm not ready to say every time a show has a storyline devoted to a secondary character going forward that they've jumped the BoBF shark the way that show did.
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I think the Pershing subplot was taking on a few things - the situation for ex-Imperials was one. The state of the New Republic was another - is it a step in the right direction? Or are they doomed to make the same mistakes as the Old Republic? And then there's the situation with ex-Imperials like Elia Kane. She seems to have been assigned to tie up loose ends with Dr. Pershing - witness the way she maxed out the device that he was hooked up to at the end of that part of the episode. Oh, and it sounds like Moff Gideon has escaped. All of this seemed like place-setting for what's to come later in the seaon, and possibly in other shows that are in development.
I'm hopeful they were setting up future stuff, but the pace of the Pershing content was brutally slow.
I liked how the quickly dropped the Moff Gideon reference which let us know what's going on, without a long story associated with it. If they were tying to tie up loose ends, or introduce new characters, etc. I think they could have done it a whole lot more concise way.
I'll reserve my judgement until later in the season to see how it all pans out. In the moment some of the Andor stuff was kind of slow (Aldhani) but after the season was done and I rewatched it all it was really well done. I don't think Mando Season 3 is that well put together, but I'm hopeful that everything in these stories ultimately will matter and they're not just wasting our time with popsicles by the mountain top and biscuit rations.
The mention of Moff Gideon made me think that they were sewing the seeds of doubt about the New Republic and foreshadowing the re-emergence of an Imperial remnant - whether it was Moff Gideon or some other Imperial warlord. Between that exchange and all of the Imperial fighters attacking Kalevala, it was plain to see that something bigger is coming.
As for the concept of tying up loose ends? I didn't mean that in terms of THE SHOW doing that. Rather, I looked at the Dr Pershing story as being more about Elia Kane acting as an agent of the Imperial remnant. And the Imperials want her to tie up those loose ends that might put their operations at risk. Dr. Pershing's work in cloning, his study of Grogu and the cloning lab on Nevarro make it clear that there's a larger effort underway that goes beyond his own efforts. With Pershing in New Republic hands he has the potential to endanger the efforts that might be linked to other Imperials who are scattered throughout the galaxy. Eliminating Pershing as a possible intel source seems to be in the interest of the Imperials.
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Was it just me or was the whole Dr. Pershing side story incredibly long and boring, and at this point it seems totally irrelevant too? I'm hopeful all that time spent on that side plot ends up mattering later.
SAME!
I'm all for world building and in theory I like deep dives into things that aren't just Mandalorians flying around talking about whether someone took their helmet off, but the ending left me if that was really the origin story for whatever the ex Gideon officer woman's name is?
The show is having an identity crisis... Grogu has become decorative. The first two episodes with looking to repair IG-11 and seeing Babu Frik's little gang, and the pirates... it all felt like wasted time. Then the Bo Katan stuff seems actually interesting... they weaved in a bit of mystery with all those TIE Interceptors being too many for a warlord...
And then we spent 45 minutes following around a reformed Dr. Pershing relapsing.
The mention of Moff Gideon made me think that they were sewing the seeds of doubt about the New Republic and foreshadowing the re-emergence of an Imperial remnant - whether it was Moff Gideon or some other Imperial warlord. Between that exchange and all of the Imperial fighters attacking Kalevala, it was plain to see that something bigger is coming.
The show runners said a few years ago that Mandalorian would explore the origins of the First Order. I have to think that's the direction all this is headed over the next few years.
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I was dumbfounded with the Pershing side story. Can someone explain how he is in the amnesty program, assigned a number in lieu of his Imperial identity, specifically not allowed to follow up on his cloning research, yet when we first see him in the episode he is hosting a lavish and well-attended TED talk on Coruscant as Dr. Pershing, describing his imperial cloning research in detail? None of this made any sense to me and kept me from getting too involved I his story.
It was just written bad. I prefer when this show sticks with its pulpy action-adventure stories. I though Mando's character development at the end of last season was terrific, but it seems to all have been undone between seasons. Is the show really doubling down on cult=good after Din seemed to have his horizons broadened, and now they are saying joining a cult can be of benefit for Bo-Katan as well?
I did truly enjoy Pershing shout "it was a trap!" at the Mon Cal doctor who looked offended at the meme stereotype. Even my 13 year old was laughing at that one.
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LOL! My daughter is 10 and even she got the "It was a trap!" bit.
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The Pershing portion of the show was definite set-up for something else. I believe it will be something later down the road in the Mandalorian and not necessarily in another show. I also believe the Imperials we saw were part of Moff Gideon's forces...we've never seen all of his forces, just one mid-sized cruiser. I have a theory that Moff Gideon's forces are part of what will eventually become the First Order and Thrawn's forces are being built up to aid the Chiss Ascendancy against the Grysk and Ezra is actually helping him now.
I did really enjoy what happened with Bo Katan this episode, while I don't expect her to stay with the Children of the watch as they are now, she seems to have found some belonging that's been lacking in her life for a while and she really does have a lot of respect for Din Djarin.
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I was dumbfounded with the Pershing side story. Can someone explain how he is in the amnesty program, assigned a number in lieu of his Imperial identity, specifically not allowed to follow up on his cloning research, yet when we first see him in the episode he is hosting a lavish and well-attended TED talk on Coruscant as Dr. Pershing, describing his imperial cloning research in detail? None of this made any sense to me and kept me from getting too involved I his story.
Well said. He's a TED Talk celebrity, but with a number and a mindless droid checking on his mental state. :D
I really hope none of the shows (Mandalorian, Rangers, Ahsoka, etc.) spend any significant time on the failings of the New Republic that led to the rise of the First Order. That is something I am willing to just accept without knowing any of the backstory with any of it.
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One thing that I found distracting in this week's episode was the casting of Elia Kane by the actress Katy O'Brien. She's incredibly buff with giant shoulders and looked like she was stalking Dr. Pershing in some scenes ready to rip his head off. I guess she is a martial artist in real life, but it was a bit distracting at times how she carried herself in some scenes. Maybe they've got a really good set of weights in Moff Gideon's cruiser.
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There's definitely something going on. In the clips from previous episodes she's talking to someone on holo, and she says "what do you have for me?" I never paid attention to it originally, but after last week's episode it's clear there's a deeper story there. She wasn't talking to Gideon, so who was she talking to? Is she Republic Special Ops? Sith Eternal? Working for Thrawn? It feels like they were setting up some stuff even last season.
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There's definitely something going on. In the clips from previous episodes she's talking to someone on holo, and she says "what do you have for me?" I never paid attention to it originally, but after last week's episode it's clear there's a deeper story there. She wasn't talking to Gideon, so who was she talking to? Is she Republic Special Ops? Sith Eternal? Working for Thrawn? It feels like they were setting up some stuff even last season.
I always thought she was talking to the mechanic on Nevarro who was working on the Razor Crest. I guess it could've been someone else.
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I definitely thought Kane was talking with the Mimbanese mechanic on Nevarro. He planted the tracking device on the Razor Crest which enabled Gideon to track down the Mandalorian on Tython. I don’t think it was any more complicated than that. In fact I think you could even see the mechanic in the hologram she was looking at.
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Ah ****, you're right. I completely forgot about that guy.
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Ah ****, you're right. I completely forgot about that guy.
Go sit in the corner and think about what you have done. ;D
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Ah ****, you're right. I completely forgot about that guy.
Go sit in the corner and think about what you have done. ;D
(https://y.yarn.co/6c791ac6-535e-48a8-8a21-c86631c8cbfc_text.gif)
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Bah. Short episode that was basically a giant monster battle, which I generally find pretty lame. This was slightly better than normal giant monster battles, but still pretty pointless in moving the plot forward.
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I thought it was pretty solid.
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My wife thought it was lame that the kid somehow made it at least a day and a half without being eaten but I guess I didn't even think about that when watching.
I have so many questions about Grogu's PTSD flashback - I think that was my favorite part of the whole episode. Complete with the call back to the "don't touch the mountain" scene from last week...
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I have so many questions about Grogu's PTSD flashback - I think that was my favorite part of the whole episode.
I forgot to mention this. This was pretty awesome with the Ahmed Best Jedi character saving Grogu and racing away in the Naboo Starship. By far the best part of the episode.
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Yeah, the Naboo connection was interesting. I wonder what's up there?
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I loved it, way better than all that stuff with Pershing.
But yeah, how was that kid still alive? And what are they going to do with the “chicks”? Use them as watchdogs?
The flashback was super cool. Clones are way more accurate than Stormtroopers that’s for sure. I thought the Naboo connection was probably not insignificant too.
Nice job directing by Carl Weathers too!
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Thankfully, they didn't have one of the Mandalorians fall during the climb to the nest so someone would have to save them.
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I was watching the new episode again last night. And with the opening scene showing the Mandalorians of the covert all training, I had to wonder - just what were the Mandalorians with the blasters shooting at??? The surface of the lake? Target practice generally involves TARGETS! A silly little nitpick, but one that caught my attention.
Evidently Ragnar Vizsla (was anyone else surprised about that?) is being played by Jimmy Kimmel's nephew. He also played the Tusken child in The Book of Boba Fett. It's gotta be nice to have connections! Having Grogu train against Ragnar brought up all of these images of parents watching their kids playing sports. And I got an undercurrent of tension between Din Djarin and Paz Vizsla as they were both watching the training match. But then with the events of the hunting party saving Ragnar it seems like Paz Vizsla has come around to have some respect for Din Djarin and Bo-Katan.
I was a little surprised by the scene between the Armorer and Grogu. It might have something to do with the fan theory that the Armorer is Rook Kast, who was part of Maul's faction towards the end of the Clone Wars. But I still feel a little uneasy about her. So it was surprising to me that she made Grogu a new piece of armor and has been encouraging him. But to have that process trigger his ptsd was profound.
As for the flashback? WOW! It was sad to see those four Jedi fall trying to protect Grogu. And then when the elevator door opened and Kelleran Beq was there? I was so happy for Ahmed Best in that moment! Because my daughter had watched Jedi Temple Challenge, and she immediately knew who he was. And I know the hell that he's gone through since 1999, and he deserved to be treated so much better than he was. I give ZERO ***** if someone calls his casting fan service. I think it was a beautiful moment for him as an actor, and the scene tied in so well with the Order 66 sequences of ROTS. The jeopardy for him and Grogu felt very real.
Yeah, the Naboo connection was interesting. I wonder what's up there?
I was wondering the same thing. And does that mean that Grogu may have been in hiding on Naboo at some point?
As for the Raptor chicks? I was asking my daughter whether she thought the Mandalorians were going to eat them or domesticate them? She was leaning towards domesticating them so that they could be ridden. And then that got me thinking of KOTOR, and the Mandalorians in that game talking about riding these Besalisk war droids in order to do airborne assaults, but that's going too far down the EU rabbit hole...
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And then when the elevator door opened and Kelleran Beq was there? I was so happy for Ahmed Best in that moment! Because my daughter had watched Jedi Temple Challenge, and she immediately knew who he was. And I know the hell that he's gone through since 1999, and he deserved to be treated so much better than he was.
I hadn't even heard of Jedi Temple Challenge - I looked it up and its a kids game show hosted by Ahmed Best at Jedi Kelleran Beq. Pretty cool.
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I liked this week's episode insofar as it was a fun dumb show not trying too hard to be something thoughtful.
Ragnar...do we think he is Paz's biological offspring, or a foundling son like Grogu is to Din? Is there a Mrs. Visla?
I laughed SO HARD when the jetpack ran out of fuel in pursuit of the flying creature and one of the Mandos said this happened last time, too. You guys are idiots! You create a new strategy if this option has failed before, especially if you are protecting your kids!!
But yeah, this covert is full of a bunch of morons and I almost have too much respect for Favreau to think it is an accident. The subtext is really leaning towards " if you fail to grasp society your best option is to join a cult and follow it without question." Is this show becoming Scientology propaganda?
Finally, the Grogu flashback. I loved seeing Kelleran Beq again, but I wasn't impressed much with the sequence. When Ahsoka told us Grogu escaped the Temple during the Purge, this is what you could imagine yourself. Nothing unexpected happened. It was lazy.
And my son and I agreed while watching it: those baby birds are going to be mounts.
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I agree that this Covert now has a biological Air Force.
Really liked the Kelleran Beq rescue of Grogu. I met Ahmed Best at Colorado Springs Comic Con last year and he is the nicest guy!
Ragnar has to be a foundling. Otherwise we would've seen him during BoBF. Look at how they refer to Din Djarin as Grogu's father.
With the Mandalorians not changing tactics when chasing the raptor, it just proves that most of them are followers and not leaders. It's a good thing Bo Katan and Din Djarin are with them. Bo Katan is a good leader, even though she has made mistakes in the past. I think she's learned from them and is growing...I'm enjoying her story arc! Din Djarin is a capable leader, but he's a reluctant one. I think with Bo Katan, he will be the leader that the Mandalorians need to unite.
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Another bleh episode to me…
It feels local and unimportant. Some of the Mandalorian armor looks like dollar store party costumes… seeing them still hanging out in a cave on the beach for half a season… I’m bored.
Like the main thing for the whole episode was that they killed a parent that was just trying to feed its kids and then brought home three orphaned dragons like it’s Game of Thrones, and we got a third flashback sequence of Order 66.
Paz Vizla going all Jeeroy Jenkins on that nest turns him into a bit of an idiot to me…
The plot didn’t expand outwards into anything interesting beyond maybe building Bo Katan to be the only competent Mando among the group. I’m assuming this is leading to her being in charge again but for God’s sake it’s not getting anywhere fast.
I’m finding this season to be incredibly underwhelming. The only interesting bits so far we’re episode 2 where Bo Katan is confused by the TIE Interceptors implying a bigger threat, and the last ten minutes of episode 3 where we figure out that there was more to that episode. But who knows when they’ll pick that up again or how long before it becomes relevant to Mandalorians.
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That was a solid episode. Pulpy fun but it also moved the plot forward. And that cameo in the rebel pilot cantina!!
I’ll give it another day before posting any spoilers but that was pretty sweet.
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Great episode. So much fun!
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The cameo was so cool and I liked how they pulled in most of the episodes to the bigger picture of the season.
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A lot to love from last night! ,
I can’t help but smile anytime Mr Kim from Kim’s Convenience is onscreen, he is so great. Ditto Tim Meadows.
All I could think of seeing the Pirate scenes was man, they would all make cool action figures which we’ll never get. :(
Bo is totally gonna ride that mythosaur in the season finale… ;D
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I was just thrilled to see Zeb in the episode. I had always wondered how could they possibly realize him as a live action character. But sure enough they did it, and it looked fantastic!
Regarding the Mythosaur? There are plot threads that would lead you to believe that Bo Katan will be able to ride it. But I’m leaning in another direction. Because Grogu has displayed this strong Force connection with a variety of creatures. The Rancor was one of them. I think the Purgill were drawn to him in hyperspace. And there were also the crabs. There’s something there, and it could be leading to him connecting with the Mythosaur.
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Great insight Nick...I bet there's something to that!
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Regarding the Mythosaur? There are plot threads that would lead you to believe that Bo Katan will be able to ride it. But I’m leaning in another direction. Because Grogu has displayed this strong Force connection with a variety of creatures. The Rancor was one of them. I think the Purgill were drawn to him in hyperspace. And there were also the crabs. There’s something there, and it could be leading to him connecting with the Mythosaur.
So I guess "The Mandalorian" hasn't been Din, but rather it's been Grogu this whole time? I guess he will also get the darksaber to bring the whole Jedi/Mando wielder full circle as well? I mean, he does need a saber since he passed on getting Yoda's from Luke. ;)
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So I guess "The Mandalorian" hasn't been Din, but rather it's been Grogu this whole time?
I've been catching a lot of crap online for floating that theory.
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I can't tell if you guys are joking, but I'm calling total bull**** if that ends up being what it is.
I'm 100% convinced that Grogu's arc was supposed to end after season 2 with Luke taking him off for training, and that some pencil pushing ******* at Disney imagined a world without Baby Yoda sales and demanded that they write him back into the Mandalorian, which was the sole reason we had that spin off episode in BOBF.
And now here they are, with him as an accessory, trying to figure out how to make him important. They may very well make him "the" Mandalorian, but I'll never believe that was the plan all along.
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I'm not joking Rob, I think this was the plan from the beginning.
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I can't tell if you guys are joking, but I'm calling total bull**** if that ends up being what it is.
I'm 100% convinced that Grogu's arc was supposed to end after season 2 with Luke taking him off for training,
I was joking. I agree with you Rob. It sure seemed like the plan was for everyone to go their separate ways at the end of Season 2. I assumed everyone would spin off (Grogu with Luke, Dune with the New Republic Rangers, Fett and Shand to TBOBF, etc). Then Mando and Bo were going to take the darksaber and go do a Mando thing. Maybe eventually there'd be some reason to get the band back together, but I was not expecting that to happen before Mando Season 3 even started and especially not on someone else's show.
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I feel like Grogu is far too unique of a character to have been written off of the show. He’s old enough to have been a youngling at the Jedi Temple during Order 66. That alone sets him apart from any other student that Luke might have taken on to train.
And I’m trying to look at it from the standpoint of the Sequel Trilogy, and the bodies of the students that Ben Solo killed when he turned. Based on the abilities he’s displayed I don’t think Grogu would have been that easy for Ben to kill. And his attachment to Din Djarin is profound. Bo-Katan refers to Din as Grogu’s dad when she was in the caves on Mandalore. And Din Djarin went so far as to reveal his face to Grogu willingly.
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This week's episode seemed like a bit of a departure. But the whimsical parts were counterbalanced by some pretty intense dealings that were set up in last week's episode. I'll leave it at that for now.
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At least 3 cameos for sure... there's another rumored that I haven't seen any confirmation.
But, yeah, it's kind of a weird one.
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This week’s episode was easily the source of the next Disney Parks Droid Factory 4-pack. It’s just a matter of which ones are chosen.
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I’m still not impressed with much this season. The end of this one was good to have gotten done I suppose, that detail needed taking care of.
The beginning thing with aquatic Romeo and Juliet felt forced and banal at the same time… the entire arc of the episode was again, very local and didn’t seem to advance any story… it was a 30 minute device just to get Bo Katan to be able to talk to Axe Woves… an entire episode of the two of them hashing it out on some mission or other would have been a far stronger story… the two of them working it out through dangerous circumstances… him slowly coming around… Instead it felt like the end note on another inconsequential side quest.
Also I might be the only one, I don’t need all these cameos. It takes me out of the story in all the wrong ways.
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I thought that the opening scene might have been a callback to chapter 3 of the first season. Was this the Mon Calamari nobleman's son that might have been Din Djarin's next bounty after he had turned over the Child to the Client?
I generally liked this episode. Not every planet can be the "used universe". The Empire had power and wealth, and no doubt there were places where the standard of living was quite high. Not everyone lived in what looked like adobe homes, in a hut in the forest or on a volcanic plain. Jack Black and Lizzo took me a little bit out of the episode. But I thought that Christopher Lloyd was quite good! And he served the purpose of showing some of the fragmented political thinking that might have been prevalent after the fall of the Empire. ANDOR certainly showed that there were varied political interests within the Empire - the Separatists hadn't just completely gone away. Helgait's monologue made that even more clear. Based on this episode and the last, the New Republic is looking like a hot mess.
The resolution over the chain of custody of the Dark Saber was actually quite well thought out! And the end of the conflict with Bo-Katan's former faction seems like it will lead to some kind of union among the Mandalorians from the Children of the Watch and the Night Owls. Add in the political angle of Plazir being prepared to recognize the independence of Mandalore? It looks like things are heading in an interesting direction. Especially with the breadcrumbs about Moff Gideon from the previous week.
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Excellently put Nick.
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I really enjoyed this episode. Lots of show-don't-tell moments.
The opening with Axe Woves and the mandalorians bringing the Mon Cal home shows how much they've fallen. They are pure mercenaries, no higher purpose. The don't care that the two are in a bit of a Romeo and Juliet type situation. They have a commission and they are going to carry it out.
Another look at the opulence of some worlds. Although it played out like a video game plot, (you want to see this person, you need to handle our problem with the droids first). I liked the Christopher Lloyd character being a separatist. He was loyal to his home world and resented a former Imperial being allowed to hang around. Going back to the video game parallel for a bit, that droid running the bar sounded like some of the droids in KOTOR II...I loved it!
I absolutely loved the interaction with Bo Katan, Din Djarin and the Axe Woves mercenary crew. How Bo Katan said that Din Djarin was more mandalorian than any of them was awesome! Bo Katan has had an arc similar to Baze Malbus. Someone who has lost their faith only to regain it. I am loving it! I kind of thought her defeating the creature that bested Din Djarin gave her the right to wield the Darksaber again, and I'm glad that they went that route. Although, now I feel she's going to die at some point in this story.
They've set a lot up this season and now we have a couple of episodes left to see some payoff. I'm enjoying the ride!
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This one really really felt like an episode of afternoon GI Joe or a Saturday morning cartoon from the 80's, except with a little serialized storytelling tacked on at the end. And that's not said with disrespect, because I look back fondly at some of those old cartoons and the storylines they were able to tell. The difference is this isn't farmed out to a bunch of writers to come up with those how many dozens of episodes...here we have such a shorter season, guided by one storyteller, so it feels weird that the storytelling is coming out so disjointed.
I liked the callback to the Mon Cal Prince...I'm sure he's the guy Din took the bounty on only to forget about the job to rescue Grogu back in season one. That, at least, was rewarding storytelling.
The episode itself was a weird homage to a detective procedural, and gave me strong vibes of the "School Cafeteria" episode of Clone Wars, ie the last episode of Clone Wars I watched when it was airing on Cartoon Network before giving up on the series. I did come back to watch the last few episodes, but the show never really connected with me again.
As far as Bo-Katan finally getting the Darksaber back, it just points out even more how much the overarching storytelling is broken here. None of the events from the finale of Season 2 that should have been complications have been anything that has taken any kind of work or character development by the characters to fix. Grogu is just back, and now superfluous to the story. Din is just fully devoted to the cult again, and not questioning the tenets of their beliefs anymore. Bo-Katan has the Darksaber, her fleet, and her followers back. Why do the work to set up these complications if they are just going to be randomly--and quickly--undone?
(The one good thing was, when Din explained how the Darksaber was now hers by right, my 13-year old son questioned it, and we got to talk about how relying on dogma in religions often leads to people being able to twist and distort the religion to mean whatever they want at the moment. A good teaching moment for us.)
And I have to add, the stuff about the Beskar in Gideon's shuttle...wasn't he the guy who took all the Beskar after Mandalore was destroyed? Wasn't he the source of Mando's own Beskar armor? If Beskar points to anyone on the galaxy anymore, it ought to implicate Moff Gideon himself.
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I would have found it ridiculous if Din and Bo hadn't found a loophole. Din doesn't want it. They are working together. Maybe Axe could have beat Din and then Bo beats him, but whatever.
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Eh, but once Mando has the Darksaber the way they did it, then an interesting story development is him having to become a reluctant leader, maybe grow a bit so that he is not always taking rash action and jumping at a chance to solve things with his fists. In the process he could learn to be a become a better protector of Grogu rather than needing a baby to bail him out again and again when he gets in over his head.
And Bo-Katan was primed for some character development once her followers left. Now that has been truncated to, join a cult and get everything back that you wanted.
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I wouldn't have hated that, but at this point I'm interested in finding out how they get Mandalore back and if they cut some corners so be it.
I feel like we are getting a lot of "here's what I would have done" takes and if that's not what happened then "it's week story telling".
We disagree.
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We do disagree.
Weak storytelling is not subjective.
I want just as much as anyone to be loving this stuff. When it goes down to the pulpy fun action, I do quite enjoy it. The overall story arch is being handled poorly week in and week out. There's fun and inconsequential, and then there's poor set up and payoff.
I have admired Favreau's writing since the 90s. I wish there was a sharper more thoughtful effort being put in here. I know he is capable of it. It just seems the current LFL /Disney grind is giving the writing less and less weight and it is showing in all of these projects.
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I'm just going to keep my mouth shut on the "weak story telling is not subjective". I'm disliked in this group enough as it is. I hope you enjoy however they decide to end the season.
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And I have to add, the stuff about the Beskar in Gideon's shuttle...wasn't he the guy who took all the Beskar after Mandalore was destroyed? Wasn't he the source of Mando's own Beskar armor? If Beskar points to anyone on the galaxy anymore, it ought to implicate Moff Gideon himself.
I feel like this is going to bear some fruit in the near future. There's a fan theory circulating that Moff Gideon was once a Mandalorian. And someone pointed out one of the Mandalorian House leaders in REBELS looked a little bit like him. That was still before the time of the purge, and Gideon is known to have been the ISB officer who led the purge.
As for the Beskar on the shuttle? Well, someone had to break Moff Gideon out. And there were the Imperial Super Commandos that were under the command of House Saxon in REBELS. There could have been a cell of them left after the Empire fell.
As for the linking of Axe Woves forces and the Tribe? I don't think Bo-Katan is necessarily done assembling Mandalorians in preparation for trying to take Mandalore. Sabine and Clan Wren are out there. And there's also the potential that Fenn Rau and the any of the remaining Protectors of Concord Dawn are still alive. Rumors have been circulating that Kevin McKidd might be crossing over from his voice role in REBELS to play Fenn Rau in live action.
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I’m still not impressed with much this season. The end of this one was good to have gotten done I suppose, that detail needed taking care of.
Also I might be the only one, I don’t need all these cameos. It takes me out of the story in all the wrong ways.
I'm with you on both counts Rob.
The Mandalorian show has never been a masterful set of storytelling like Andor, so my expectations are a little different, but I'm still hopeful that they can have a larger story arc with the plot progressing reasonably from show to show in a sensible manner.
I feel like they've got a bunch of different writers coming up with pulpy ideas that consume 85% of the episode and then they just tack on a bit of random plot here and there. This week's episode felt like that where most of it didn't make any sense in the larger picture, and then the last five minutes was the bit where they moved the plot along.
And I agree that having well known actors/celebrities in cameos can be fun, but it can also be really distracting at times.
One thing that I'm still confused about is why does Bo Katan need an army and super powerful starships? Who is controlling Mandalore that she needs to take it back from? Isn't it just a post-apocalyptic world where some of those native critters live? There doesn't appear to be an Imperial Remnant or pirates controlling it.
I think we can all enjoy (or not enjoy) parts of this show for different reasons. Nick and Nick can love the pulpy fun, and Rob and myself can be frustrated by clumsy storytelling while still mostly liking the show. Its more about missed opportunities to have something really good like Andor. I do wish they could find a stronger narrative and writing that would hold the story together better even when they've got a side adventure.
I am honestly worried about the just announced Dave Filoni movie that pulls together Mando, BoBF, and Ahsoka. BoBF was a hot mess with no larger story. Mando currently has a small story arc around reclaiming Mandalore. Not sure what Ahsoka is going to be about but it appears its the usual Favreau/Filoni writing/directing/producing crew that did Mando and BoBF, so while my hopes are high based on the trailer and Rebels vibe I'm also tempering my expectations based on their recent track record.
Tony Gilroy absolutely crushed it with Andor. Maybe that is considered "too serious" for the kids. I just wish we could get a little more of that cohesive storytelling from Andor and mix in some pulpy fun for the kids to create a better Mandalorian series.
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My problem with that is "Nick and Nick can enjoy the pulpy fun". If Muftak and Dave don't think theyre driving the story that is fine. I hate the definitive take that Muftak knows good storytelling and I just like pulpy fun. I like how all the side stories seem to play a role in the overall ark. It takes a couple episodes sometimes but it all fits in. It's the least we'll done season I agree. I just don't agree it's bad storytelling (which is subjective)
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As I have stated before, my favorite part of the show is the pulpy action setpieces. If that didn't hold up I wouldn't be watching. My gripes come from the attempts to do a season long storyline with higher stakes, especially since last season's arc was pretty well done but completely negated since.
Maybe bad storytelling isn't what I mean, maybe I am talking about bad story structure. There is a formula to the way a television episode should unfold, the same as the standard structure of a hollywood movie script. Google it, it's a real thing. Even when it subverts expectation, it still follows the road map. Since Book of Boba Fett it seems like we are getting first drafts as opposed to polished finished scripts where all the beats are tied together successfully.
I've got nothing against you, Nick. I don't intend to disparage your tastes, as I said I like the episodic parts of the show a whole lot. I enjoy debating this stuff and exploring my feelings about the show in that way.
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You'll grow to dislike me Muftak. I have a terrible personality trait of letting a bunch of frustration on a topic being unleashed on one random person.
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Does anyone know if this is accurate? That the Dave Filoni movie will be the end of Mando and Grogu’s story? If so, did they announce when that movie would happen? Despite my complaints about this year, I’d like the show to carry on and thought I saw an interview with Favreau that wasn’t too long ago where he was saying they didn’t have any plans to end Mandalorian on some kind of schedule.
https://screenrant.com/mandalorian-movie-universe-dave-filoni/
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Does anyone know if this is accurate? That the Dave Filoni movie will be the end of Mando and Grogu’s story? If so, did they announce when that movie would happen? Despite my complaints about this year, I’d like the show to carry on and thought I saw an interview with Favreau that wasn’t too long ago where he was saying they didn’t have any plans to end Mandalorian on some kind of schedule.
https://screenrant.com/mandalorian-movie-universe-dave-filoni/
Based on their recent track record with movies I fully expect this movie to never happen.
If they do want to tie things up eventually across all these characters they should just do it on Disney+ with a final season.
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Kathleen Kennedy says that the Dave Filoni climactic event of the MandoVerse movie is “6 or 7 years away”
https://twitter.com/sw_holocron/status/1644964463181791232
So I guess the idea I had in my head that the last link I posted meant two-ish more years of Mandalorian was way off.
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We do disagree.
Weak storytelling is not subjective.
I want just as much as anyone to be loving this stuff. When it goes down to the pulpy fun action, I do quite enjoy it. The overall story arch is being handled poorly week in and week out. There's fun and inconsequential, and then there's poor set up and payoff.
I have admired Favreau's writing since the 90s. I wish there was a sharper more thoughtful effort being put in here. I know he is capable of it. It just seems the current LFL /Disney grind is giving the writing less and less weight and it is showing in all of these projects.
I get where you're coming from with this. And I think that it ultimately comes down to this - IS THERE A BIG PICTURE PLAN FOR STAR WARS OVER THE NEXT DECADE+?
I think one of the most apt comparisons is how Kevin Feige has led the effort for the Marvel Cinematic Universe to have a cohesive big picture approach. But then when you bring that comparison into the conversation, one thing that has distinguised the MCU is that not every project is cut from the same cloth. Styles can vary. And the tone of stories can vary as well.
I feel like this is the case for the "Mandoverse" if we're going to call it that. I do not expect the plot of every episode to neatly dovetail together with every other episode. The galaxy far, far away is very big. And I think it's worth exploring both the serious bits, and yes, the pulpy bits too. And with the promotion of Dave Filoni to a creative executive within Lucasfilm, I think we have someone who is going to be in a position to think from a big picture standpoint. Will he be Kathleen Kennedy's eventual successor? I don't think he's quite there, but he worked hand in hand with George Lucas for years. He knows the world of Star Wars intimately. I'm excited to see where things go. And I suspect that the big dramatic turn of the season is coming up quickly.
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I get where you're coming from with this. And I think that it ultimately comes down to this - IS THERE A BIG PICTURE PLAN FOR STAR WARS OVER THE NEXT DECADE+?
I think one of the most apt comparisons is how Kevin Feige has led the effort for the Marvel Cinematic Universe to have a cohesive big picture approach. But then when you bring that comparison into the conversation, one thing that has distinguised the MCU is that not every project is cut from the same cloth. Styles can vary. And the tone of stories can vary as well.
I feel like this is the case for the "Mandoverse" if we're going to call it that. I do not expect the plot of every episode to neatly dovetail together with every other episode. The galaxy far, far away is very big. And I think it's worth exploring both the serious bits, and yes, the pulpy bits too. And with the promotion of Dave Filoni to a creative executive within Lucasfilm, I think we have someone who is going to be in a position to think from a big picture standpoint. Will he be Kathleen Kennedy's eventual successor? I don't think he's quite there, but he worked hand in hand with George Lucas for years. He knows the world of Star Wars intimately. I'm excited to see where things go. And I suspect that the big dramatic turn of the season is coming up quickly.
From what I read over the weekend, the analysis from people who follow all the behind-the-scenes stuff points to the storyline that Favreau had planned out relied heavily on the plotline for Cara Dune / Rangers of the New Republic, and once she was kicked out of the franchise against his wishes, Favreau basically threw up his hands and put in as little effort as possible to correct course. So I guess that goes a long way to explain why everything seems to be a jumbled mess as far as the season's overarching storyline.
With Favreau running the show and writing the lion's share of the episodes himself, I do expect storylines to mesh and have some kind of consistency of quality...but I guess that's not going to be the case so much if he was forced to excise a main character after the fact and didn't want to play ball, I can understand how things got sloppy.
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From what I read over the weekend, the analysis from people who follow all the behind-the-scenes stuff points to the storyline that Favreau had planned out relied heavily on the plotline for Cara Dune / Rangers of the New Republic, and once she was kicked out of the franchise against his wishes, Favreau basically threw up his hands and put in as little effort as possible to correct course. So I guess that goes a long way to explain why everything seems to be a jumbled mess as far as the season's overarching storyline.
I'm not saying what you read is wrong, but that is one weak excuse if that is the case.
If Rangers is such a key element, then create a new lead character and keep the story going. Have Mando interact with that person and make it part of the overall story. There is nothing magic about the Cara Dune dune character. Heck, its been over two years since Gina Carano was kicked out of the franchise - there is more than enough time to get a Plan B (write some new stories or get a new lead for Rangers).
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From what I read over the weekend, the analysis from people who follow all the behind-the-scenes stuff points to the storyline that Favreau had planned out relied heavily on the plotline for Cara Dune / Rangers of the New Republic, and once she was kicked out of the franchise against his wishes, Favreau basically threw up his hands and put in as little effort as possible to correct course. So I guess that goes a long way to explain why everything seems to be a jumbled mess as far as the season's overarching storyline.
If this was the case they should have just recast the character with a new actor.
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From what I read over the weekend, the analysis from people who follow all the behind-the-scenes stuff points to the storyline that Favreau had planned out relied heavily on the plotline for Cara Dune / Rangers of the New Republic
I can see that. That is probably where the "Dr. Pershing Rehabilitation" and the "Carson Teva investigates" stuff came from - it was probably planned for the New Republic show and is now kind of just shoe-horned into Mando S3 to get some key story bits in (Moff Gideon related I guess) despite the clunky structure.
Favreau said in February 2023 (https://twitter.com/lenicolasbehar/status/1627718478860779532) that he's already done writing Mando Season 4, so I hope re really does know what he's doing and where this is all going.
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From what I read over the weekend, the analysis from people who follow all the behind-the-scenes stuff points to the storyline that Favreau had planned out relied heavily on the plotline for Cara Dune / Rangers of the New Republic, and once she was kicked out of the franchise against his wishes, Favreau basically threw up his hands and put in as little effort as possible to correct course. So I guess that goes a long way to explain why everything seems to be a jumbled mess as far as the season's overarching storyline.
With Favreau running the show and writing the lion's share of the episodes himself, I do expect storylines to mesh and have some kind of consistency of quality...but I guess that's not going to be the case so much if he was forced to excise a main character after the fact and didn't want to play ball, I can understand how things got sloppy.
I'm not sure how much stock I put in that rumor. Because it sounds like something that would come out of certain circles of "fandom" that use the term "Disney Star Wars" as a pejorative.
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I don't know how much of that is true. I could see Favreau doing something like that as a strong arm tactic to get Gina Carano back (he wrote the Cara Dune character specifically for her), but I think Rangers would work better with Carson Teva taking the lead. Even if he did something like that, I doubt he would let the overall product suffer...why give the Fandom Menace something to grift on purpose?
I think the louder online voices are a bit fickle at times. John Favreau is one of the people that helped bring the MCU to life....have a little faith that he knows what he's doing. I'm not saying anyone has to like what I like, or that I even know anything more than anyone else (probably less since I avoid spoilers like the plague!) I'll reserve judgement on this season until I see were it ends up. A lot of the things I've seen this season that people are complaining about (besides the cameos which I admit bring me out of the episodes a little bit) seem like set-up to me so I'll wait and see what the payoff is.
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From what I read over the weekend, the analysis from people who follow all the behind-the-scenes stuff points to the storyline that Favreau had planned out relied heavily on the plotline for Cara Dune / Rangers of the New Republic, and once she was kicked out of the franchise against his wishes, Favreau basically threw up his hands and put in as little effort as possible to correct course. So I guess that goes a long way to explain why everything seems to be a jumbled mess as far as the season's overarching storyline.
With Favreau running the show and writing the lion's share of the episodes himself, I do expect storylines to mesh and have some kind of consistency of quality...but I guess that's not going to be the case so much if he was forced to excise a main character after the fact and didn't want to play ball, I can understand how things got sloppy.
I'm not sure how much stock I put in that rumor. Because it sounds like something that would come out of certain circles of "fandom" that use the term "Disney Star Wars" as a pejorative.
Agreed.
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Wow! That was an episode straight from the beginning. Lots of potential figure material in this episode (whether Hasbro makes them is another thing). Lots of connections being made.
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Wow.
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Just watched it. Finally, an episode with some actual movement to it. Loved this one.
That Gilad Paelleon made the jump from Legacy to Canon is awesome.
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Agreed. A very solid episode from beginning to end.
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Deluxe IG-12 with Anzellan droidsmith(s) just jumped to the top of my most wanted list.
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Deluxe IG-12 with Anzellan droidsmith(s) just jumped to the top of my most wanted list.
Yes, but you'll get IG-12 with Grogu instead.
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Deluxe IG-12 with Anzellan droidsmith(s) just jumped to the top of my most wanted list.
Yes, but you'll get IG-12 with Grogu instead.
I'm sure we'll get both versions, probably not removeable driver though.
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Deluxe IG-12 with Anzellan droidsmith(s) just jumped to the top of my most wanted list.
Yes, but you'll get IG-12 with Grogu instead.
I'm sure we'll get both versions, probably not removeable driver though.
And they'll be deluxe now (even though we got IG-11 single carded and it's just a tweaked upper torso).
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Whatever it takes to get a 3.75" Anzellan figure/accessory. I think they can get IG-12, Anzellan Droidsmith, and Grogu all into a $28 deluxe pack.
Get it done, Hasbro. You can then turn around and double-dip a repaint of the Anzellan as Babu Frik in a $28 C-3PO w/Sith Dagger, and Babu-Frik deluxe set.
#badbaby #nosqueezie
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Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
I had flashbacks to when my children were infants playing with their electronic toys (I presume that was their intention).
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So based on the context and Hux Sr’s involvement, I feel like Project Necromancer has to be Snoke.
That whole Zoom meeting was fascinating. No idea who Pellaeon is but was the woman supposed to be Rae Sloane?
Moff Gideon is not drinking the Thrawn Kool Aid lol. And based on the fact the dude is never mentioned in the ST it seems like a safe bet he really is never actually coming back. Maybe he will just hang out on the Chiss homeworld and wait for the Vong to show up? :D
So they were going to rebuild their homeworld with like 30 people? There have to be way more Mandalorians out there somewhere, right? At least Boba and Sabine for starters.
I guess that wasn’t the Mythosaur that erupted out of the ground but I sure thought it was going to be.
Funny to see the Praetorian Guards not getting their asses handed to them for a change. Also odd that they would have predated Snoke, but I guess they must be guarding someone else.
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As the father of a severly autistic nonverbal ten year old boy with huge food anxiety issues, I continue to get so much more out of the Grogu journey than I expect. This week definitely had me flashing back to the struggles and triumphs our family has had with my son's communication device -- an iPad with dedicated buttons for key phrases he needs. He dislikes using it as a rule, but when motivated (usually through his food anxiety) he has shown full well to be in charge of his voice and able to convey his needs. I don't know if any of this was intentional on the creators' parts, but it is something my whole family acknowledged and related to from the new episode, much like the whole "stealing Frog Lady's eggs" story was very relatable for us.
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So they were going to rebuild their homeworld with like 30 people? There have to be way more Mandalorians out there somewhere, right? At least Boba and Sabine for starters.
The one thing is this part of the plot moved way too quickly. They just defeated the pirates and Karga gifted them some land in Nevarro to settle but they are already set to go back Mandalore. And they kept talking about taking Mandalore back. From who? It seemed like pretty much a "dead" world without much activity from their visits (yes, there were many species they saw, but it didn't look like the planet was occupied by any means). Has Moff Gideon been using Mandalore as a base all this time? Apparently so.
I guess that wasn’t the Mythosaur that erupted out of the ground but I sure thought it was going to be.
No, but it seemed weird that the creature destroys their skiff/hovercraft and the Mandalorians go to this cave that conveniently leads them to the Great Forge. Like, "Oh yeah, we've arrived at the Great Forge. Too bad the valet took out our means of transportation."
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The one thing is this part of the plot moved way too quickly. They just defeated the pirates and Karga gifted them some land in Nevarro to settle but they are already set to go back Mandalore. And they kept talking about taking Mandalore back. From who? It seemed like pretty much a "dead" world without much activity from their visits (yes, there were many species they saw, but it didn't look like the planet was occupied by any means). Has Moff Gideon been using Mandalore as a base all this time? Apparently so.
I griped about this frustration before. Its an example of crappy/lazy writing that I think could be easily fixed with some better execution.
Maybe there was always a garrison of remnant troops on Mandalore that Bo Katan and crew were building a coalition to take down and reclaim the planet, but it was never mentioned. Then the story could play out and they get surprised by a much larger garrison and beskar troops and Moff Gideon.
You would think that Bo Katan would be pretty aware of what is going on on Mandalore when she has been living on its moon Concordia for some time.
I still get the sense that Favreau/Filoni are only very roughly sketching out the overall season plot and then leave it up to individual writers/directors to craft their own stories, and then never try to reconcile them and get them to really gel.
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That whole Zoom meeting was fascinating. No idea who Pellaeon is but was the woman supposed to be Rae Sloane?
He was Thrawn's right hand man in the original Heir to the Empire series back in the 90's. A 'decent' Imperial if I remember right.
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"The Spies" was a monumental episode in terms of what took place. But it was also the culmination of what had transpired over the course of the season. I credit Jon Favreau for not obviously beating the audience over the head with the breadcrumbs that he had been sprinkling throughout the season.
We had been wondering who was behind the TIE Interceptors and TIE Bombers that had attacked Bo-Katan's castle on Kalevala. I had certainly been curious about how they had gotten there with no capital ship present for them to operate from. The revelation of Moff Gideon's base on Mandalore answered that question. It also seems as though Gideon is trying to position himself as the new Imperial leader. The conflict between him and Pelleon seemed tense - especially with Gideon questioning him about just where and when Thrawn might re-emerge.
I appreciated the casting for Brendol Hux! He was played by Brian Gleeson, who happens to be the brother of Domnhall Gleeson. And Domnhall Gleeson just so happened to play General Armitage Hux in the Sequel Trilogy. If you read the Aftermath trilogy of books, you might be a little familiar with Brendol Hux. His character was tied to Grand Admiral Rae Sloane, but I was curious about her absence from the Shadow Council.
Count me as shocked to see that Gideon had a force of Imperial Super Commandos! I remember them from REBELS, and it was surprising to see them re-emerge here. But then that Beskar that Carson Teva found in the derelict shuttle came from somewhere.
The conflict between the Tribe and the Night Owls was predictable. What wasn't was Grogu stepping in to break it up with IG-12! He gave Axe Woves and Paz Vizsla enough of a wakeup call for them to realize that they shouldn't be fighting one another. And it seemed like they recognized the value of that because they were the ones who flew Grogu out when the Sail Sledge got attacked by the Mandalorian Kaiju that burst out of the ground. And I don't know if I can say that I was genuinely shocked that Paz Vizsla would sacrifice himself to save his people. He came around and seemed to recognize how important it was for Bo-Katan and the other Mandalorians to escape from Gideon's base. And for him to fight against 3 Praetorian Guards? I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't heard Gideon talk about them earlier in the episode. But sure enough, there they were.
But then there are THE SPIES. Plural. We know about Elia Kane, who seems to know about the pirate threat, and that they seemed to be serving as a proxy force. Who else does that refer to? I don't think it's Moff Gideon, despite him casting himself as a spymaster to the Shadow Council. I have questions about Axe Woves. His conflict with Bo-Katan is clear. And then he escaped from the Imperial base. But then there's the Armorer. She left the surface before the joint Mandalorian scouting party got attacked by the Imperial Super Commandos. Somehow she survived on Nevarro following Moff Gideon's takeover of the town in season 1, but many of the Mandalorians of the covert did not. It seemed to me like she was harvesting the Beskar from their armor. And I also noticed spikes on Gideon's helmet that were a lot like those on the Armorer's helmet. I'm waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop.
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But then there are THE SPIES. Plural. We know about Elia Kane, who seems to know about the pirate threat, and that they seemed to be serving as a proxy force. Who else does that refer to? I don't think it's Moff Gideon, despite him casting himself as a spymaster to the Shadow Council. I have questions about Axe Woves. His conflict with Bo-Katan is clear. And then he escaped from the Imperial base. But then there's the Armorer. She left the surface before the joint Mandalorian scouting party got attacked by the Imperial Super Commandos. Somehow she survived on Nevarro following Moff Gideon's takeover of the town in season 1, but many of the Mandalorians of the covert did not. It seemed to me like she was harvesting the Beskar from their armor. And I also noticed spikes on Gideon's helmet that were a lot like those on the Armorer's helmet. I'm waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop.
Good theories! I was wondering about "The Spies" in the title as spying seemed to play a minor role in the episode.
I have a hard time thinking Axe or The Armorer are spies, but I'm not sure I've got a better idea. Maybe the "sailing Mandalorians" are spies for Gideon having survived for so long on Mandalore and potentially walking the rest right in to a trap by the forge.
Either way, hopefully it'll be a fun wrap up to the season next week.
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Good theories! I was wondering about "The Spies" in the title as spying seemed to play a minor role in the episode.
I have a hard time thinking Axe or The Armorer are spies, but I'm not sure I've got a better idea. Maybe the "sailing Mandalorians" are spies for Gideon having survived for so long on Mandalore and potentially walking the rest right in to a trap by the forge.
Yeah, I kept thinking those wounded Mandalorians were spies. But what Nick says about The Armorer makes sense, too, regarding the Purge on Navarro and she being the only survivor. No one asked how she survived that.... Plus, I keep wondering about her reaction to Bo-Katan's revelation about the Mythosaur. It was dismissive in a way. But maybe The Armorer has some deal with Gideon to allow a small number of Mandos live in exchange for some useful commodity (like Beskar).
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Re: The Spies/The Armorer
- Maybe the "let's all keep our helmets on" isn't even a thing, it's just her way to hide her identity without everyone wondering why she never shows her true face? Plus it was kind of weird that she volunteered to go on the 'away team' in the first place when she usually doesn't. The horns on Gideon's helmet. The way they focused on her return to the fleet and then didn't show the outcome. They sure are making it seems like there is something there....
Re: Cloning
- if Project Necromancer is Snoke and that's Daddy Hux's thing, then what's in all those cloning vats that Gideon walks by on his way to the secret shadow society of Imperial Warlords? Is he doing a competing Snoke/Palps cloning thing or something else? Why did he need/want Grogu in the first place? For his own cloning project? Was it like a race to see who could bring back Palps first?
Questions for next week's finale:
- Is Bo gonna ride that mythosaur?
- Is IGrogu-12 gonna rescue his daddy?
- Will Thrawn/Sabine/Ahsoka make a cameo to further link to the next series (maybe this is the post-credits zinger tease?)
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Another weird thing is that Paz Viszla shoots the blast door to keep the Imps from going after the Mandos seemingly dooming himself to overwhelming odds. After he defeats the commandos, and if the Praetorians hadn't shown up to finish the job, he would have been standing there foolishly trying to figure out how to reconnect with the others.
As for the cloning:
Gideon did mention that he was going to create a new generation of darktroopers using elements of Jedi, clones, and Mandalorians and that the army would restore order to the galaxy... perhaps they're making a new breed of clone trooper... or perhaps the Sith Troopers? It will be interesting to see where that goes.
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Questions for next week's finale:
- Will Thrawn/Sabine/Ahsoka make a cameo to further link to the next series (maybe this is the post-credits zinger tease?)
I was even thinking about that. I think you're right that there will have to be some kind of tie in, somehow, even its not critical to the current plot.
I really hope that The Armorer isn't a spy. Its hard to believe that would be the case. Her covert hasn't been causing problems for the Imperial remnant and I'm not sure what valuable insight she could provide. Its Bo Katan that causes the problems and the Imperial remnant knows where she lives.
Plus all the Mandalorian dogma she has been driving. I think it would be a tough blow to have your spiritual leader be a traitor, and all the plot they've devoted to her teachings would seem odd.
Maybe it'll happen, but they really don't need spies in this series as there isn't anything overly sneaky/devious/complicated being plotted by the Mandalorians.
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Maybe it'll happen, but they really don't need spies in this series as there isn't anything overly sneaky/devious/complicated being plotted by the Mandalorians.
The Covert has been in hiding since the beginning of the series. And Moff Gideon made it clear to the Shadow Council that he views the Mandalorians as a threat to the resurgence of the Empire. That says a lot to me about spies gathering information and acting against groups they might be involved with.
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Maybe it'll happen, but they really don't need spies in this series as there isn't anything overly sneaky/devious/complicated being plotted by the Mandalorians.
The Covert has been in hiding since the beginning of the series. And Moff Gideon made it clear to the Shadow Council that he views the Mandalorians as a threat to the resurgence of the Empire. That says a lot to me about spies gathering information and acting against groups they might be involved with.
The Covert was nothing but bounty hunters and others living in the shadows of Navarro. They had no real plan and barely any aspirations for returning to Mandalore. They thought it was a toxic wasteland. And The Armorer battled and defeated a pile of Gideon's troops. Not sure why Gideon would go after her and The Covert if they were on the payroll.
Bo Katan wanted to return to Mandalore, but up until an episode ago her crew and The Covert were rivals/enemies.
I know Moff Gideon said that the Mandalorians were a threat to the Shadow Council, but there is no evidence Mandalore is meaningful to anyone other than Moff Gideon and the Mandalorians that want to go back to their destroyed home world.
I honestly think this is just a weak narrative that is being used by the writers to create conflict to drive the story. The writers could have described why Moff Gideon cares about Mandalore. Maybe its super strategically located for his remnant Empire. Maybe its got some natural resources (beskar, kyber crystals, etc?) that is critical to his larger plan, but there don't appear to be active mines.
I'm going to try and not bitch anymore about the writing, but if they're going to get twisty and clever with the writing (e.g. spies in the midst of the protagonists), they should first get a coherent narrative that we can follow. I can deal with the weak narrative driving fun pulpy conflict, but they need to get things straight before they get clever.
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Weak narrative? At some point I think some of this is on the viewer and their capacity to follow along with things over the course of several seasons worth of a series. Frankly, I think that weak writing is when a screenwriter beats the audience over the head with plot points by making things blatantly obvious. I appreciate writers taking time to develop things subtly and over time. Because how am I picking up all of this stuff?
-Gideon's forces only attacked Bo-Katan's home on Kalevala AFTER she and Din Djarin had been to the mines of Mandalore. The story that had circulated about the planet was that it was poisoned, and it kept Mandalorians from returning. Gideon benefited from the story that the planet was unihabitable, and did not want Mandalorians to return and threaten his operations on the planet. And the Mandalorian survivors made a point of saying that any who attempted to leave the planet were shot down.
-Gideon's history with the ISB and leading the Empire's purge of Mandalore. He saw something there to be conquered. And much of the storytelling that has developed about the Imperial era is that the Empire regarded planets as the source of commodities needed to maintain their power.
-Beskar became a valuable commodity - that's been a recurring theme through the whole series. And Gideon said it again when he made clear all of his evil plans that he regarded Mandalore as a planet with great resources. He armored his troops with Beskar. If there was any kind of a weak narrative, it was Gideon monologuing to the Mandalorians before trying to destroy them all.
-Gideon also made it clear that his cloning efforts are geared towards using the Jedi and Mandalorians to make what he regards as his ultimate soldiers. That's at the heart of his research that would use Grogu's genetic material.
-Bo-Katan explicitly said that Mandalore was too powerful to be conquered, but the infighting between Mandalorians brought them down. That much was clear in a lot of canon material from the Clone Wars, through Rebels and now into this series. Their factions have been their true weakness.
I'm not trying to be adversarial here. But I've seen all of this laid out over the course of three seasons. There have been some tangents along the way, but there's a lot that has been leading in this direction.
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Weak narrative? At some point I think some of this is on the viewer and their capacity to follow along with things over the course of several seasons worth of a series. Frankly, I think that weak writing is when a screenwriter beats the audience over the head with plot points by making things blatantly obvious. I appreciate writers taking time to develop things subtly and over time. Because how am I picking up all of this stuff?
I'm not trying to be adversarial here. But I've seen all of this laid out over the course of three seasons. There have been some tangents along the way, but there's a lot that has been leading in this direction.
I think you're generously connecting dots that aren't really there to make the current season/episode's plot hold together better than it actually does. There was virtually nothing meaningful about Mandalore in the first two seasons.
Season 1:
Din Djarin is a bounty hunter that stumbles on Grogu. Adventures galore. Din tries to return Grogu to "his kind", the Jedi.
Grand Moff Gideon's intentions are to capture Grogu for his genetics so they can be used in creating Dark Troopers.
There is almost no mention of Mandalore other than the religious holy land of The Covert. In the last frame of the season you see Moff Gideon with the Darksaber.
Season 2:
Din Djarin is still a bounty hunter trying to return Grogu to the Jedi. Adventures galore.
Bo Katan is introduced halfway through the season with her intention to "retake Mandalore". They never mention who they need to retake Mandalore from. The Darksaber becomes a key McGuffin (so Bo Katan can unite all remaining Mandalorians in her quest) in addition to returning Grogu to the Jedi while protecting him from Moff Gideon and Dr. Pershing's Dark Trooper plan. Moff Gideon barely/never mentions Mandalore other than to gloat about its destruction. Its not hinted at that it is key to his plans, but we know he likes beskar.
Grogu is delivered to Luke, Moff Gideon is captured and the Darksaber is acquired. The missions are complete.
I don't know what the overall plan was, but I firmly believe Grogu was not intended to stay in the show beyond season 2 and was shoe-horned back in via BoBF via non-sequitur episodes because he was a fan/merchandising favorite.
Other than Bo Katan's brief screen time, there is almost no mention of Mandalore other than the religious holy land of The Covert.
Season 3:
In between random episodes with Lizzo, and Dr. Pershing having moon pops on Coruscant there is lots of content about Mandalore, Bo Katan's intention to "retake it" (but we still have no idea from whom), and Moff Gideon's escape using beskar equipped troopers, and the Shadow Council are introduced along with the concept that Mandalore is important to the Empire. Heck, Bo Katan's soliloquy at 17:35 in episode 7 talks about "reawakened dormant species" as the major threat in retaking Mandalore, not Moff Gideon or any imperial remnant.
I challenge you to find any indication prior to the most recent episode (#7) that Moff Gideon cares about Mandalore as anything more than his and the Empire's original conquest of power to defeat a powerful, defiant culture that doesn't want to bend the knee to the Empire. Sure he cares about beskar, but the planet itself after it got annihilated? It appeared there was plenty of beskar that he harvested over the years from dead Mandalorian armor and other places, but there didn't seem to be any indication he was actively mining it (and there still isn't any clear indication).
Maybe I missed the hints along the way, but its still my position that they've sloppily introduced the conflict on Mandalore to drive the plot. Moff Gideon's base could be anywhere, even on a star cruiser or an outer rim planet, but the writers chose Mandalore to create conflict. Again, I'm okay with that, but will be annoyed if they get too twisty and clever after many, many episodes where Mandalore was little more than a halcyon homeland for Bo Katan or religious pilgrimage for The Covert.
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I’d buy some of that if we were dealing with an amateur screenwriter who had no experience with an epic, episodic IP. But it’s Jon Favreau. Check out his IMDB for his writing credits. His contributions to the MCU alone give him some foundation in mapping out a journey over the long haul. And his right hand running the show as an EP is Dave Filoni. He has been at the right hand of George Lucas as the story of the Mandalorians was laid out in canon in the Clone Wars. And it was built further - BY FILONI - as he was the show runner for Star Wars Rebels, where more of that story was told. Oh, and they brought George onto the set on a regular basis. But then WTF do I know?
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I’d buy some of that if we were dealing with an amateur screenwriter who had no experience with an epic, episodic IP. But it’s Jon Favreau. Check out his IMDB for his writing credits. His contributions to the MCU alone give him some foundation in mapping out a journey over the long haul. And his right hand running the show as an EP is Dave Filoni. He has been at the right hand of George Lucas as the story of the Mandalorians was laid out in canon in the Clone Wars. And it was built further - BY FILONI - as he was the show runner for Star Wars Rebels, where more of that story was told. Oh, and they brought George onto the set on a regular basis. But then WTF do I know?
Favreau's credentials are solid as a producer and director, but he doesn't have a lot of experience writing. Even though his credentials are solid that doesn't mean the story this season is automatically good and everything he is involved with is automatically awesome.
Filoni has no credentials outside of Star Wars. He started as an animator and worked his way up. I think he knows the Lucas/Joseph Campbell hero lore well, but I think his writing ability is waaayyy overrated. While Rebels was solid, Resistance and BoBF were a complete mess. Mandalorian, Clone Wars, and Bad Batch have all been uneven.
I'm not trying to bash those two or hold them responsible, and I'm sure there are bunches of other people helping with dialog, etc., but I don't feel like the story has held together this season very well. Its still fun, but its certainly clunky.
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The season-spanning story in season 3 has been the weakest yet. Also, the standalone stories have had baffligly poor structure.
That said, in outline form the season looks far better than the result. We got a whole lot of connective tissue in Episode 7, withheld from the viewer as a poor excuse for surprise and shocking developments. It's like the antithesis of Hitchcock's famous ticking bomb. Where we could have had rising tension in the viewers, instead we have a sudden surprise because the filmmaker withheld information. It would be like leaving out the scene where Tarkin blows up Alderaan so the viewer could be surprised that it is gone when our heroes arrive. It's a choice, bit I would argue a poor choice.
Again I liken the storytelling here to the old GIJoe cartoon, except they had dozens of episodes a season to meander wherever they wanted story-wise, and kept their season-long story development to a multiparter that reset the stakes at the beginning of the season. (And in full disclosure, I haven't watched that show since they originally sired, so this is some old anecdotal recollection. )
My biggest point of contention with the way the story unfolded this week was the reveal that Gideon was responsible for bombing Bo's castle. If this was what that mystery was set up to reveal, that was clunky beyond belief. Maybe if Din and Bo had discussed it since or been worried about figuring it out it would have been a good reveal, but as far as I can tell they forgot all about it. Or the writers did.
And to anyone championing well-crafted storytelling, please explain to me what happened to the 3 baby birds that were adopted by the covert. The tribe has moved twice since the adventure that culminated in their rescue, now living in a Cruiser in space. Are we waiting for the surprise scene where they fly in to the rescue fully grown? Because if that us the kind of dot-connecting you find to be quality, I have to disagree.
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And to anyone championing well-crafted storytelling, please explain to me what happened to the 3 baby birds that were adopted by the covert. The tribe has moved twice since the adventure that culminated in their rescue, now living in a Cruiser in space. Are we waiting for the surprise scene where they fly in to the rescue fully grown? Because if that us the kind of dot-connecting you find to be quality, I have to disagree.
They had something roughly baby bird sized roasting on the spit at the Nevarro feast. I kind of wondered if that might be one or not. ;D
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They had something roughly baby bird sized roasting on the spit at the Nevarro feast. I kind of wondered if that might be one or not. ;D
My son and I actually joked about that while watching it, we have been keeping our eyes peeled for those guys to show up again.
But no, I think that was supposed to be the Nevarro version of the attacking reptile bird creature that we saw in Season One when Grogu had to heal Karga.
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At this point, I think they are building towards some version of Heir to the Empire. I'm sure it will be another thing for the fan boys to have fits over. While a great set of novels, I don't think direct adaptations would have made great movies.
From what we have seen in post Disney Star Wars media, we have several elements from the original Thrawn trilogy: Wayland has been shown in Bad Batch, and there is an emphasis on cloning, the Client wanted Grogu for his blood for Pershings/Gideon's midichlorian cloning experiments, Thrawn is returning from points unknown (in the original EU Palpatine sent him to the unknown regions to identify a threat, in the Disney cannon he was removed to points unknown with Ezra in Rebels), former Imperials are being referred to as Warlords, much like in many of the early EU novels, Pelleaon shows up and his a Thrawn fan boy, Thrawn had Ruhk as an assassin/tracker/assistant in Rebels.
With the announcement of the Filoni movie pulling all his shows together, Heir is the logical choice. We have seen two force sensitive adversaries for the Ahsoka series. The male character could serve as a possible C'Baoth stand in. I think Ahsoka may fill in a Mara Jade role, minus the love interest part. Gideon will be a "rebel" Imperial presence for Thrawn to either bring in-line or destroy.
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Also, they've basically turned Boba Fett into Tallon Karrde.
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WHERE IS JORUS C'BOATH!
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If Boba Fett is Talon Karrde, then that would make Fennic Shand the new Mara Jade. And the Mods are Ghent the super slicer.
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I wish I knew WTH you guys were talking about… :D
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Butterfly in the sky
I can go twice as high
Take a look
It's in a book
A reading rainbow...
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If Boba Fett is Talon Karrde, then that would make Fennic Shand the new Mara Jade. And the Mods are Ghent the super slicer.
And here I thought Ranzar Malk from season 1 was supposed to be Talon Karrde. I’m so confused!
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WHERE IS JORUS C'BOATH!
Ok, just spit-balling here but these could be the character changes for the Filloni/Favreau version of Heir to the Empire:
Luke's role will be played by Ahsoka
Tallon Karrde is taken by Boba Fett
Jorus C'Boath - The bearded guy in the Ahsoka trailer
Mara Jade - The blonde lightsaber wielder in the Ahsoka trailer
Wedge will now be Carson Teva
Still trying to figure out how Ezra, Sabine, Hera, Bo Katan, Din Djarin, Zeb and the others would fit in. We're obviously not going to get an exact retelling of the books.
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I wish I knew WTH you guys were talking about… :D
The OG post-ROTJ trilogy… Heir to the Empire.
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Just finished. This season was a bit of a dud to me, but it did finish strong!
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WHERE IS JORUS C'BOATH!
Apparently, after yesterday, it is Gideon.
I'm interested to see where this will go. In the old EU, Wayland was where the Emperor set up his secret stash of weapons and technology, including what were called "Spartii" cloning cylinders - as a note anything related to the prequels and the Clone Wars were off limits to Star Wars authors at the time. Said facility was guarded by a mad clone of Jorus C'Baoth. We also ended up with a clone of Luke from his severed hand. The crux was that the Emperor was trying to figure out how to make Force sensitive clones that weren't subject to madness. The other major plot point was that Thrawn thought he needed a Force wielder in order to re-establish the Empire.
In the current continuity, we have the return of Thrawn from parts unknown. When he was removed from the storyline, he was with Ezra. Ezra had the upper hand it seemed. In all these years, did Thrawn persuade Ezra to join his cause? Did he somehow over power him? Will he be used as a clone template? We have two dark side Force wielders that we know little about at this time. We also have Gideon, who may have been successful in creating a Force sensitive clone from a non-Force sensitive template. My thought is that while Gideon prime may have bit the dust, I bet there is a surviving clone somewhere. I don't see the actor going away quite yet.
Ahsoka is in a much different head space than where Luke was in Heir to the Empire. I don't see how they can go with the "join me" plot with Ahsoka. Luke was looking for anything from the Jedi's past, while Ahsoka is very aware of the dark side and evil intentions. She certainly wouldn't entertain joining a Force sensitive Gideon unless there is going to be some sort of Gideon vs Thrawn battle.
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It was interesting how things came together in the end, but I kind of wished a couple episodes were more coherent (The Convert and Guns for Hire)... more along the lines of Andor, where they can focus on different characters arcs within an episode (and how its spread out through the season) instead of bookending the episode with Djarin and Bo-Katan with the actual purpose of the episode.
Also, jet pack fuel limits were definitely a plot device this season. In The Foundling, it was an issue to go find the bird, but in the finale, Axe Woves just flies off into space and to a ship in orbit with no issue.
That said, I still enjoyed things.
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Also, jet pack fuel limits were definitely a plot device this season. In The Foundling, it was an issue to go find the bird, but in the finale, Axe Woves just flies off into space and to a ship in orbit with no issue.
I thought the same thing. Apparently you can't fly very far horizontally when chasing a big bird monster but you can fly in to an orbit vertically. ::)
This episode was fun and wrapped up the season fairly tightly. It makes me wonder if Bo Katan and Mandalore are going to have much to do with the future plot of The Mandalorian. They sort of seemed to imply Din Djarin was going to be a bounty hunter from here on out and just have random adventures tracking down Imperial remnants.
Overall I agree with Rob that this season was a bit of a dud. There were definitely some significant tangents that haven't paid off (I'm looking at you Dr. Pershing). There was some fun mixed in but there were a few episodes that didn't matter and really weren't that much fun.
I also felt like there wasn't much in the way of character development. I know this is supposed to be a pulpy show, but I felt like in the first couple of seasons Din Djarin's character grew a bit while the adventures took place. I really don't feel like his character (or anyone's character) grew this season.
It's still Star Wars and still fun, but I think the execution could have been a lot better.
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Also, jet pack fuel limits were definitely a plot device this season. In The Foundling, it was an issue to go find the bird, but in the finale, Axe Woves just flies off into space and to a ship in orbit with no issue.
I haven't gotten hung up with details like this. To my mind, if you're focusing on this kind of a detail, you're not immersed in the story. Star Wars has never been so much about the science than it has been about the story - witness TESB, where the Millennium Falcon travels at sublight speed from the Hoth system, to the Anoad system, and on to Bespin. That's a trip that should have taken YEARS.
One little "rhyming moment"? Why is it that every time someone is flying a capital ship that's in flames towards the surface of a planet, they have to say "I'm coming in hot"? Be that as it may, Axe Woves really distinguised himself in the past couple of episodes. Even though he got into pissing matches with Paz Vizsla, there seemed to be a genuine sense of dedication to Mandalore and their people. His recollection about the Night of a Thousand Tears, along with talking about the Forge was a way of bringing things back to a time before the Empire rained destruction on the planet. I had been skeptical about the motivations of the Armorer, but she came back and fought like hell to defeat the Imperials. The concepts of honor, loyalty and character weren't just words to these Mandalorians. They were living it. And I like how the season got bookended with Ragnar taking the creed. It was interrupted by the lake beast in the first episode, but then he was able to complete the ceremony on Mandalore in the living waters. I had also thought about the possibility of the Mythosaur rising from the waters in this episode, but I think that the story of the return of the Mandalorians to their homeworld still needs places to go. It seemed clear that Grogu connected with the creature. What will that mean in the future? And the future of the Mandalorians in general? We'll see.
For the actors and stunt people? Serious credit has to be given to Lateef Crowder. His hand to hand combat scene against the Imperial Super Commandos was fantastic! Seeing how he took out so many of them unarmed was really impressive, and definitely showed that Din Djarin wasn't just a gunslinger.
As for tying up loose ends? Din Djarin formally adopting Grogu seemed a little anti-climactic. As if that was actually a fact. I didn't see a moment of doubt for Din Djarin to make that decision. It was interesting to see how Din Djarin approached Carson Teva with his offer to work for him. Is this concept something that was salvaged from Rangers of the New Republic? I think that's a possibility.
It seems that Din Djarin and Grogu have earned a much needed rest after their adventures. Bringing back IG-11 as the Marshal for Nevarro was a nice touch, too.
As for the Shadow Council? Their existence certainly set up some possibilities for the next season, because there are still a number of Imperial warlords still out there.
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Questions for next week's finale:
- Will Thrawn/Sabine/Ahsoka make a cameo to further link to the next series (maybe this is the post-credits zinger tease?)
I'm really surprised that they didn't work in any tie-in to Ahsoka or The Rebels crew in to the finale. I'm fine that they didn't, but really thought that this was a likely plot element.
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I haven't gotten hung up with details like this. To my mind, if you're focusing on this kind of a detail, you're not immersed in the story. Star Wars has never been so much about the science than it has been about the story - witness TESB, where the Millennium Falcon travels at sublight speed from the Hoth system, to the Anoad system, and on to Bespin. That's a trip that should have taken YEARS.
Okay Nick, but next season when Din reveals his rocket pack can travel in Hyperspace, we will only have you to blame.
On the Falcon's trip to Bespin: It has been established in the old EU that every ship with Hyperdrive has backup hyperdrive engines that--while they move at a fraction of the regular hyperspace speeds, still far outclass sublight engines. It is still a point of mystery as to exactly how long they travelled / Luke trained, much the same as how my mind was blown to read an interview with Favreau stating in his mind there were two years between the end of Mando Season 2 and Season 3, most of which Grogu spent with Luke.
The first time any of this really "broke" for me to take me out of the story and I couldn't get past it was during "The Last Jedi" when the First Order had to resort to a sublight chase, rather than somehow flanking the Resistance with lightspeed maneuvers, which was then only further complicated by the jaunt to Canto Bight in the middle of said low-speed chase. Even then, I like the movie more than I don't, it just really really took me out of the moment.
What took me out of Mando even more than the rocketpack to space (which I poked fun at nonetheless) was the fact that Axe did that because the sky is scorched and no transmissions can get off the surface, a fact we have been told numerous times this season. So when it was revealed that Gideon's secret lair was underground on Mandalore itself, I had to question how he was chatting with his spies on Coruscant or the Shadow Council at all from there? It was sloppy for them not to address this with a line of dialogue somewhere.
And while I get where they were going with the clones, did they have to be 65-year old looking clones? At max he has only been growing them two years (see above, that's when he finally got Grogu's blood) and the master cloners on Kamino were impressed with themselves to have clones that aged at twice the speed, those things were not going to have a very long life if they aged 30x regular speed.
I thought the last two episodes this season lived up to my expectation of them being in the vein of those Transformers or GIJoe mini-series events where the status quo gets reset and new toys are introduced. I liked plenty in the finale, the laser gate gauntlet being a highlight for sure, and R5 vs the Mouse Droid felt like classic Star Wars at last.
I am hopeful season four sticks with the promise of bounty hunting Imperial remnants in an episodic nature. I think that is where the show will do its best work.
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I am hopeful season four sticks with the promise of bounty hunting Imperial remnants in an episodic nature. I think that is where the show will do its best work.
Totally agree. They've not done a great job with big story arcs or character development, so just make it 1-3 episode story arcs and keep it fun and simple with bounty hunting adventures.
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I haven't gotten hung up with details like this. To my mind, if you're focusing on this kind of a detail, you're not immersed in the story.
I wasn’t very immersed in the story, but it wasn’t because of the details. It was because the story was pretty one-note and meandering and not very… immersive.
I think Andor raised the bar to a level that everything else is going to continue to struggle to match.
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The ship was approximately 4.5 miles above the planet, not in orbit. How far did they chase that bird for? Could have been longer than that for sure.
Lol that no one turned out to be a spy after a week of wildly improbably fan theories bombarding my FB feed. Now im stuck with 50 different Moff Gideon-is-not dead threads. ::)
My only disappointment is that I really, really did think the very final scene of the season was gonna be Bo riding that Mythosaur. Maybe next season?
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The ship was approximately 4.5 miles above the planet, not in orbit. How far did they chase that bird for? Could have been longer than that for sure.
Lol that no one turned out to be a spy after a week of wildly improbably fan theories bombarding my FB feed. Now im stuck with 50 different Moff Gideon-is-not dead threads. ::)
My only disappointment is that I really, really did think the very final scene of the season was gonna be Bo riding that Mythosaur. Maybe next season?
While some Mythosaur riding would have been pretty epic in theory, I think if she rolled up riding a giant beast the whiny and toxic side of the fan base would have been like "WTF Bo KAtan Mary Sue riding her WOKE mythosaur is just copying BoBA FeTT from BOBF on tha RANCOR!!!!!! Favreau and Filoni have no more original ideas WTF ROTFLMAO!!!!1!!!!!!11!!