Author Topic: Obi-Wan Kenobi Series (SPOILERS possible)  (Read 37258 times)

Online GrandMoffNick

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #210 on: June 24, 2022, 10:15 AM »
Off the top of my head the timeline for Reva to get from Vader leaving her to Tatooine was as terrible as it gets, but I liked her arc so whatever. Though that's risky by Obi-Wan to assume she won't have another change of heart.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 11:34 AM by GrandMoffNick »
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Offline Nicklab

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #211 on: June 24, 2022, 10:30 AM »
I've watched the 6th episode three times now.  And I continue to be floored by it.  It generated such intense emotion for me as a viewer, despite the fact that we know that both Obi-Wan and Darth Vader survive and carry on to the events of A New Hope.

For the series as a whole?  It was puzzling at first to see how the series opened with the scene at the Jedi Temple as the Clone Troopers attacked the younglings and their teacher.  But that scene gained more power and gravity as the series developed and we learned that Reva was one of those younglings, and that she encountered Anakin Skywalker that night and barely escaped with her life.  Her story grew more compelling over the course of the series.  Especially when Obi-Wan was able to connect with her through The Force and discover her true intentions - to seek revenge against Darth Vader.  I think Moses Ingram played this so very well, and I think the payoff for Reva's character seeing flashbacks of herself in an unconscious Luke brought it all around as she finally confronted her own pain and guilt. 

That concept of guilt was very powerful through the series.  It didn't become apparent until episode 5 that guilt was part of Reva's motivation.  But it was an extremely powerful undercurrent for Obi-Wan through the entire story arc.  He seemed to be going through the motions of his life on Tatooine, just doing what he needed to survive.  When he tried to do something nice for Luke and Owen confronted him, he struck one of the most painful blows of all.  When Ben said that when Luke was old enough he should be trained and Owen said "Like you trained his father?"  It was like a gut punch.  Bail Organa was able to play upon that guilt in order to snap Obi-Wan into action.  The guilt reared it's head again on Mapuzo as Obi-Wan had a vision of Anakin in the distance, and then during his confrontation with Vader.  When Vader said "I am what you made me" it had to run through Obi-Wan as a profound moment of pain, which was only punctuated by the thrashing he suffered at Vader's hand.

The flashback to Obi-Wan and Anakin's sparring session was enlightening.  It showed that those dark undercurrents were already there with Anakin, and perhaps Obi-Wan was reliving some of his regrets about how he might have failed his padawan.  But I really like how it also illustrated how Obi-Wan could get into Anakin's (and Darth Vader's) head.  Plus it was great to see the echoes of their fighting styles between that flashback and their confrontation in the final episode.  And that's where everything got tied up, isn't it?  After Obi-Wan had thoroughly disabled Darth Vader, revealing some of the face of Anakin Skywalker, their conversation was the moment that Obi-Wan truly needed.  Obi-Wan had blamed himself for Anakin's fall and apologized to him.  To have Vader say that it was he that killed Anakin was a profound moment.  Anakin had made his choices.  And in a way Vader absolved Obi-Wan of his guilt.

There were some things in that final episode that were flooring.  In ANH I had always kind of written off Owen and Beru as farmers who were likely helpless when the Stormtrooper came to the farm.  But they were so fierce in defending Luke in this episode!  Someone had said this around the time that the series was coming out, that they were glad that George Lucas had cast Joel Edgerton as a young Owen Lars.  And now I know why, because he was fantastic!  And Bonnie Piesse was ready to kick some ass as Beru, because Luke was their boy.  They weren't going to let him be harmed.

And that duel.  OMG - which I found myself saying out loud when Obi-Wan summoned all of his Force abilities and pummeled Vader with all of those boulders!  It makes you chuckle about lines like "The Force isn't just about lifting rocks".  And then there were moments that harkened back to ANH, like when Obi-Wan pointed his lightsaber very directly at Vader.  Departing the scene calling him "Darth" was another.  That consciousness of tying things like that together from a story perspective really struck me.

I almost felt like the episode might have suffered from too many endings.  But I was so glad to see Obi-Wan visit Alderaan.  His conversation with Leia was a beautiful way for him to let her know about her parents.  And for her to end the conversation with the same line that Anakin spoke to Shmi Skywalker in EPISODE I?  Wow.

Seeing Vader confer with the Emperor was a bit of a surprise.  Because he was put in his place.  He seemed obsessed with pursuing Obi-Wan, but Palpatine seemed to reign him in.  Did Palpatine foresee the possibility of a conflict within his apprentice?  Or was this him manipulating him yet again?

I was also struck by how much power came from costume choices.  When the series began Obi-Wan was content to be low profile.  His appearance when he left for Daiyu seemed to mark a progression back to embracing the way he had attired himself as a Jedi, but only gradually.  When he encountered the people of The Path, he took more steps towards how he had dressed as a Jedi Master, but his clothes were dark.  Was it a reflection of the Dark Times?  His mood?  Or a mourning for the loss of all of the Jedi?  But following his confrontation with Vader he seemed almost reborn to the light, and he seemed to embrace dressing as he had as a Jedi when he finally returned to Tatooine.  The costume department also made some interesting choices for the final couple of scenes, and I think the Mythos look for Obi-Wan in exile on Tatooine factored in there.

That final scene?  It was certainly expected.  But it was still far more emotional than I would have anticipated.  And a beautiful way to end the series.
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Offline Dave

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #212 on: June 24, 2022, 10:35 AM »
- I had a flashback to The Last Jedi and am a little bugged by the Star Destroyer vs. transport battle.  The Star Destroyer managed to track down, disable, and capture the Tantavie IV without much trouble but couldn't do that with a transport?

I'm ok with that because I thought Tantive was disabled in some way - doesn't C-3PO say something about the main reactor being shut-down?
[/quote]

I think C-3PO says that after the explosion occurs on the outside of the Tantavie IV when the ship is being attacked by the Star Destroyer. 

I just think there are other ways you can dramatically have this play out that are less hokey.  Maybe the hyperdrive dies after only a few seconds and you only get the transport to the other side of the sector and the Star Destroyer has to hunt a bit to find you.  It gives time for the dialog to play out and forces Obi-Wan to take the drop ship to draw Vader away.

One area that I'm still not sure about is the Emperor / Vader dialog where the Emperor tells Vader to chill.  Vader is obsessed but The Emperor doesn't seem to care much about the threat of Kenobi.  Is this just The Emperor exerting control?  Is Vader really losing it?  Is Kenobi not a threat and there are more important things to focus on?

One line that still bugs me and I expected it to play out in this series was what Tarkin says about Kenobi on the Death Star, "Surely he must be dead by now".  I thought Kenobi was going to stay buried in the rocks and sneak away, or there would be some large explosion/battle that Kenobi miraculously survives when everyone thought he was dead.  ANH only takes place eight years later (or so) and there wouldn't be any reason to think Kenobi would have died.  He's not old enough to die naturally and if he can best Vader then there isn't an Inquisitor that could begin to match him.  Let's hope there is a Kenobi season 2+ where this sort of thing plays out.

Offline Dave

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #213 on: June 24, 2022, 10:37 AM »
I was also struck by how much power came from costume choices.  When the series began Obi-Wan was content to be low profile.  His appearance when he left for Daiyu seemed to mark a progression back to embracing the way he had attired himself as a Jedi, but only gradually.  When he encountered the people of The Path, he took more steps towards how he had dressed as a Jedi Master, but his clothes were dark.  Was it a reflection of the Dark Times?  His mood?  Or a mourning for the loss of all of the Jedi?  But following his confrontation with Vader he seemed almost reborn to the light, and he seemed to embrace dressing as he had as a Jedi when he finally returned to Tatooine.  The costume department also made some interesting choices for the final couple of scenes, and I think the Mythos look for Obi-Wan in exile on Tatooine factored in there.

Great commentary.  I sort of noticed this too, but didn't go back and really look at the details on the episode by episode evolution.

I do love the Mythos look for Obi-Wan and loved seeing him head off in to the desert in that outfit!

Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #214 on: June 24, 2022, 11:18 AM »
I really can't agree with anything that's been said here about the series.  I thought it was well done.  Yes, I had my nit-picks (mainly that chase scene on Alderaan) but I would also give it an A.  It'd be interesting to see if they have a second season.  I can't imagine what else they could explore but I'm sure the writers can put something captivating and interesting out for us to enjoy.

Offline Dave

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #215 on: June 24, 2022, 11:27 AM »
I can't imagine what else they could explore but I'm sure the writers can put something captivating and interesting out for us to enjoy.

There could always be more Inquisitors out to get Kenobi.  Maybe crime lords are making Tatooine too rough and Kenobi needs to make the place a bit safer for Luke.  Or maybe Kenobi unseats Maul from Black Sun leadership - that might be a fun series if Emilia Clarke wanted in for a reprise of Qi'ra.

I'm sure a good writer could come up with some good stuff if Ewan is game for another round.  I'm also good if they leave this at six episodes and move on.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 12:04 PM by Dave »

Offline Nicklab

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #216 on: June 24, 2022, 11:45 AM »
I was surprised when discussion surfaced about the possibility of a second season - especially from the cast!  I think their enjoyment making this series rekindled their love for the franchise.  Part of me also wonders about the impact of the Clone Wars animated series.  Did it register with Ewan McGregor and Hayden Christensen?  Did the way the characters were developed in that series deepen their appreciation for the characters?  Or did they perhaps want to revisit the characters to put their own stamp on Obi-Wan Kenobi, Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader?

I think much of their desire to do this show and possibly go there again has to do with the way the show was made.  Using the Volume as a virtual set was a way for the actors to really immerse themselves into the galaxy far, far away.  I had gotten a sense for the past couple of decades from comments Ewan McGregor had made that the greenscreen technology made it much more challenging for him as an actor.  In the time before technology like the Volume was available I thought that answer was a copout.  But having seen the Behind the Scenes material from The Mandalorian about how game-changing the new technology has been for the crew as well as the actors changed my mind about that.  Immersion in that environment lends that much more authenticity to the process.  And when your creators are enjoying the process that much more, I think they're going to do better work.

But from a story perspective?  I feel like things were wrapped up rather well.  Where things go from here seems like it might be rather forced.  It took something incredibly serious for Obi-Wan to leave Tatooine - the abduction of Leia!  And Bail Organa making that personal appeal to Obi-Wan to save her.  That's the moment that set off the events of the entire series.

The story point that I think might make for a series of its own was the escape of Roken and the members of the Path network.  The Grand Inquisitor said it himself to Vader as Obi-Wan attempted to get the Star Destroyer to pursue him so that Roken and his crew could repair the ship and escape.  They could squash the network in that moment with one stroke.  And there was also the matter of Reva being on her own.  Where does she go now?  And of course there was the mention of Quinlan when Obi-Wan was in the safe house on Mapuzo.  These are the threads that seem like they have the most potential for a possible second season.  Which begs the question - how would Obi-Wan Kenobi fit into all of that?
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 11:58 AM by Nicklab »
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Offline P-Siddy

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #217 on: June 24, 2022, 01:12 PM »
The story point that I think might make for a series of its own was the escape of Roken and the members of the Path network.  The Grand Inquisitor said it himself to Vader as Obi-Wan attempted to get the Star Destroyer to pursue him so that Roken and his crew could repair the ship and escape.  They could squash the network in that moment with one stroke.  And there was also the matter of Reva being on her own.  Where does she go now?  And of course there was the mention of Quinlan when Obi-Wan was in the safe house on Mapuzo.  These are the threads that seem like they have the most potential for a possible second season.  Which begs the question - how would Obi-Wan Kenobi fit into all of that?

This (Roken and The Path) might be an interesting story to follow and it could also include Reva in her redeemed arc leading the Force-sensitive/evading the Inquisitors.  I've heard rumors (don't recall from where so take it with a grain of salt) that Moses Ingram might get her own spin-off series so this could possibly be a route they go.  I think it would be nice to see more of the Inquisitors since I felt some of them could be explored more.  Perhaps Quilan could make an appearance?  But Ewan does a great Obi-Wan and I'd love to see him and Hayden pick up their roles again in the SW Universe.

Offline Diddly

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #218 on: June 24, 2022, 04:49 PM »
We should also all know that's how SW fans determine what's good and what sucks. Whether it fits our expectations. I think I would have been very bored with your version Diddly.

Thatís all fine with me, man. Frankly I was pretty underwhelmed by what we got with this series, and Iím pretty disappointed in how it ruins a lot of lore of the OT. Maybe by voicing my displeasure, one day the bar for good Star Wars content will be raised. Maybe not. Weíll see.
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Online GrandMoffNick

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #219 on: June 24, 2022, 05:13 PM »
We should also all know that's how SW fans determine what's good and what sucks. Whether it fits our expectations. I think I would have been very bored with your version Diddly.

Thatís all fine with me, man. Frankly I was pretty underwhelmed by what we got with this series, and Iím pretty disappointed in how it ruins a lot of lore of the OT. Maybe by voicing my displeasure, one day the bar for good Star Wars content will be raised. Maybe not. Weíll see.

Yes the if I tell everyone how much it all sucks Disney will stop sucking reasoning for hating it all and telling us all how much you hate it. Your OWK take wouldn't bother me if you ever liked anything Star Wars. And again with the hyperbole. It was a six episode mini series. It didn't ruin any OT lore.

I apparently am too dumb to see how low the Star Wars bar you mention is

I'm then typically told I love everything Disney because I don't hate everything Disney.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 05:22 PM by GrandMoffNick »
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Offline Diddly

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #220 on: June 24, 2022, 07:36 PM »
Yeah I sure am a self loathing Star Wars fan who hates everything Star Wars related! What with owning multiple copies of every movie across multiple media platforms, nearly 3 decades worth of collectibles in my possession, etc.

You clearly missed my earlier post where I said I enjoyed SOME things on the show, such as the interaction between Obi-Wan and Owen, and Obi-Wan seeing the homeless 501st on Not-Nar Shaddaa. I'm not sure why people like you just can't accept other people criticizing things. It's a TV SHOW. In addition to being enjoyed, it's meant to be criticized, analyzed, etc. And the best part is that it's subjective! I can feel free to say that the forest chase with Flea and Young Leia is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen in Star Wars, and you can feel free to disagree entirely! But people like you for whatever reason won't accept ANY criticism whatsoever, and you can't even defend this show without resorting to personal attacks. Why is that, I wonder?

Good lord do I miss the days where the biggest debate in Star Wars fandom was what color Han's coat is.

There are better TV shows and movies to watch, so I'll go seek those out instead. Just like there are better posters here on JediDefender who aren't pieces of **** like you are, GrandMoffNick. I'll go interact with them instead.
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Online GrandMoffNick

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #221 on: June 24, 2022, 08:56 PM »
You'll clearly note I stated Disney Star Wars because of course you love pre Disney Star Wars or you wouldn't be here to post at all.

You can use your "I can't take any criticism" nonsense if you like. I'm more than happy to criticize too. There's plenty of criticism in this thread from everyone but youll notice i only felt the urge to say something as douchey as this to good old Diddly. If i think someone's criticism is without merit I'll say something. IE Dave's comment about lightsaber wounds, the idea that because in ep2 obi wan got destroyed by Vader it nullified vaders words on death star, etc but not with the (probably uncalled for) vitriol as my response to you. But when 95% of your posts are about how today's Star Wars sucks then that's my trigger. Or my lesser annoyance is the I'll only share my 50% dislike and never what I do like.

I wish Disney and Hasbro were doing a better job. But they aren't as terrible as you want them to be. The person ie you who loves the old stuff and only wants to hate the new stuff is the only thing that takes my joy from Star Wars so you and I will never get along. I don't need you to agree with me. But when I see Diddly posted something new and know it's gonna be about why this sucks or why it ruined Star Wars then yep I will always have a problem with that person.

I will agree with you that I am a crappy internet poster. It's so much easier to have a civil debate in person. My posts suck because they typically disagree with someone, but that's not the same as not being able to criticize or handle someone else's criticism.

I'm going to let this go as it's derailed this thread that's had some really good positive and negative thoughts today by a group of people who only ask for a low bar Star Wars show  (sorry the last part was me being an a$* again)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 10:00 PM by GrandMoffNick »
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Offline Tracy

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #222 on: June 24, 2022, 09:59 PM »
I just fan-girled the 💩 out of that finale  ;D

Holy ****!  Welcome back Tracy!

I thoroughly enjoyed this series.  The finale was awesome!  This show was everything I wanted it to be and more.
Thanks!  Missed you guys!
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Offline Dave

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #223 on: June 25, 2022, 11:33 AM »
Watching Vader take shots from Obi-Wan's lightsaber and just losing chunks from his suit, I'm wondering why Vader's suit isn't beskar like The Mandalorian's?

The more I think about it the more it kinda bugs me that beskar is totally impenetrable to lightsabers.  Its fine in The Mandalorian series as there is really only a Darksaber involved, but why wouldn't Darth and Inquisitors be fitted with lots of beskar?


Offline Nicklab

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Re: Kenobi (Disney+) - (SPOILERS possible)
« Reply #224 on: June 25, 2022, 11:48 AM »
Watching Vader take shots from Obi-Wan's lightsaber and just losing chunks from his suit, I'm wondering why Vader's suit isn't beskar like The Mandalorian's?

The more I think about it the more it kinda bugs me that beskar is totally impenetrable to lightsabers.  Its fine in The Mandalorian series as there is really only a Darksaber involved, but why wouldn't Darth and Inquisitors be fitted with lots of beskar?



Good question!

There's also the Zillo beast from The Clone Wars to consider.  Palpatine had it destroyed in part because it's scales were impervious to lightsabers.  The motivation there seems pretty obvious.

In the case of The Mandalorian, I got the sense that Din Djarin's armor is more durable than the armor of other Mandalorians because the plates are pure beskar.  The rest of my thoughts on this are pure supposition.  Such as the Empire would want to tightly control the supply of beskar given it's protective capabilities.  Perhaps that's how the Client had his supply?

As for Vader?  I think only so much of the suit is armored. I like how the shoulder armor was something that got worked into Anakin's costume look for The Clone Wars.  And Obi-Wan also scored strikes against his breathing apparatus as well as across Vader's back.

In the OT he took a glancing blow from Luke in the duel at Cloud City.  And there was a deleted scene in ROTJ where Luke actually scored a strike on Vader's helmet in the beginning of the duel on the second Death Star - but again, a glancing blow.  From the Legends material about it, it seems that it's clumsy for him to move around in, and he is in constant pain.  And he might have foregone greater protection because barely anyone could get close enough to Vader to do him real harm.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2022, 11:51 AM by Nicklab »
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