JediDefender.com Forums
Community => Other Toy Lines => Topic started by: Brian on June 7, 2004, 02:06 PM
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Aside from repacks, case assortments, and other issues that so many of the toylines seem to suffer from nowadays, which toy line do you think combines aspects such as sculpt, articulation, accessories, packaging, and overall price point into the best "bang for your buck" if you will? I'm not familiar with each and every toyline, mainly paying attention to Star Wars and a little bit of Marvel and Lord of the Rings, but while looking through the toy aisles this past weekend, this question popped into my head. For example, if you look at the new offerings in the Star Wars line this year, the sculpts have been pretty spiffy I think (especially for the smaller scale), accessories have been hit and miss depending on the character, but not too bad overall, and articulation is definitely hit and miss, although better than it has been. To me, although I'd always take them cheaper, I think $4-5 isn't too bad for these figures, especially remembering the $7-8ish days of Episode I and POTJ while unpacking some things this past weekend.
On the other hand, since the new Trilogy line of LOTR figures has come out, it has been even tougher to leave these on the pegs. They are bigger, so you're already getting more plastic (although for me, I like the 3 3/4" scale, and have a tough time displaying the bigger figures), usually pretty good accessories, great articulation (even if it becomes loose after awhile), as well as great sculpts more often than not. All this for around $5 to 6 from what I have seen (closer to $6).
The same holds true for Marvel Legends. Although they are somewhat limited, not seeing quite as many releases throughout the year (which is ok sometimes), you have overall good sculpts, articulation above and beyond most other lines, some pretty neat characters, usually a comic book included (depending on your neck of the woods), and a decent sized base in most cases. Accessories are somewhat limited on many characters outside of the book/base though. These seem to be in the $6-8 price range, usually on the lower end depending on store.
Otherwise, those are the lines I am most familiar with off-hand, and really they aren't too bad of values on any of them to me. Like I said, I'll always take them cheaper, but the prices aren't too bad (especially considering most were higher priced before). There are other action figure lines which approach the $10 range per figure, some that have "packs" where the price is spread out (minimates are $2ish per figure in the 4 to 5 packs, but much smaller figures for $2 a piece as well). Anyways, I guess I was just curious which line or lines out there right now are a good "value" in your opinion?
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Gotta go with LOTR...wide character selection, super articulation, great sculpts, great likenesses and the price tag cannot be beat. One though though, the price from 2001 until this Spring has been $1-$3 higher, seems like that is how much the packaging cost...that wasn't the best bang for the buck
The Simpsons is a close second, great value, oodles of Accessories and some of the best likenesses of any figure line ever...plus it was a pretty vast line all for around $5-$6 a figure
Seems to me for SW we are paying for a license, we should be paying $3-$4 a figure based on the amount of plastic and accessories we are getting to comparable toy lines ::)
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Seems to me for SW we are paying for a license, we should be paying $3-$4 a figure based on the amount of plastic and accessories we are getting to comparable toy lines
I really agree with this Scott, like I said, I like the 3 3/4" scale (actually would have really liked a LOTR line in this scale, like SW), but looking at the figure size/plastic used compared to other lines, $3 to $4 would be more in line (and would be great). I remember in the vintage days figures were around $2 to $3 weren't they? Good times, even though I was a kid and didn't have that much money anyways :)
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Another way to look at it that even when Target clearnaces SW figures they are never cheaper than $2...that right there tells me something ::)
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I have been thinking about this again lately, as I look over the aisles at the local retail stores. Comparing the different lines out recently (Star Wars, Marvel Legends/Classics, Marvel Legends Showdown, DC Superheroes, JLU, Superman Returns, Pirates of the Caribbean 2, etc.), it really does seem like Marvel Legends is one of the best values out there for action figure lines. Although all the prices seem to have gone up some, maybe due to the price of oil and all of that, Legends have stayed in the same ballpark and is often times cheaper than lines that are much smaller, or offer less. The only lines I primarily collect are Star Wars and Marvel, and to a lesser extent DC, but I keep an eye on some of the others from time to time as well. Star Wars is a 3 3/4" line with average articulation and accessories, and runs anywhere from $6-$12 at retail it seems. The DC Superheroes line, which is sort of DC's answer to Legends, has less articulation, little to no accessories right now, and a comic (which is going to be dropped in series 3 I believe) and they seem to run around $9-$10. Heck, even the smaller scale "Showdown" figures cost as much or more than their larger Legends cousins. Although it would be nice if all the lines were cheaper, I've just been noticing lately that the Marvel Legends (and sometimes Classics) figures are really a pretty good value. A 6", well sculpted/articulated figure, with either a base/stand or BAF piece, and a comic for around $7. Not too bad of a deal. Anyways...just kind of thinking about this lately, it seems like you get a good amount of "bang for your buck" with the Legends line right now. Don't get me wrong, I still love the Star Wars line - first and foremost - (especially the quality of the VTSC figures), but the consistent price increases are a little annoying (while articulation and "new" figures have gone down).
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I agree with your assessment of the Marvel Legends figures. For $7 you get a lot of action figure. I don't follow the other lines you mention so I never paid attention to the prices but I have seen the figures and there are a lot of Super Hero figures out there today that are well done.
I might also nominate the Sigma Six GI Joe figures for value. They have two price points right now $11.99 and $14.99 at Target (The carded figs might be $9.99 at some stores but I'm not certain). The $15 figures have a ton of accessories and include a weapons locker to store them in. The figs are about 6" to 8" depending on the character and they have pretty good articulation. I know a lot of Joe collectors don't like these but I've always liked the Anime style art and toys and I do like these.
Other than that, and what you mentioned, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that is a great deal at retail right now. The TRU exclusive 3.75" GI Joe 6-packs were a good deal at $20 and the DTC figures that are starting to show there again aren't bad. But the ML figures stand out for the detail and price.
E...
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Nothing Star Wars, that's for sure...
For me, it's the 1:18 military toy lines...
For $5, the current Series 2 Battle of the Bulge figures from 21st Century Toys give you as many as 6 sets of arms, 2 heads, packs, a gun(s), and helmet/hat for your figure. The articulation is super articulated with 16 points of articulation!
Comparably, BBI's Elite Force 1:18 figures are exquisitely sculpted with detail I've yet to really see Hasbro match. Their figures feature as many as 18 points of articulation, and their figures usually come with a pile of extra weapons as well as their normal packs, rifles, and helmets. You'll get a Bazooka, Mortar, or tri-pod support machine gun... Lots of stuff for the $4.99-$6.99 pricetag ($6.99 figures have working parachutes and jump gear... Not bad).
To take my idea of these being the tops in value a step further though... Let's look at their vehicles.
A 1:18 scale P-38 Lightning Interceptor... A massive fighter in World War II by all means, is recreated in perfect 1:18 scale. The plane is made up of TONS of individual parts, and put together by hand. There's a full cockpit interior down to every tiny detail including footpedals and a control stick, painted instrumentation, etc... The cockpit glass opens EXACTLY as the real plane would, in multiple sections. The landing gear open, lock, and roll, and are comprised of many individual parts, ther painting and decaling are incredibly accurate, and again it's PERFECT 1:18 scale.
You get that for $40-$50 depending if you find it in a store or online. I got mine for $40 at TRU. And there's a number of paintjobs for ANY given fighter too, not just one to pick from. Everything from D-Day to the Pacific Theater can be found.... AND you get a unique pilot with super articulation that is as good (or even better than) the basic carded figures. I mean, holy ****.
And, to add to that... 21st Cent. Toys is A) a private, small, independant toy company with highly limited capital as compared to Hasbro, B) pay licensing fees on any number of items... Contrary to popular belief among SW collectors who love to defend Hasbro, other toy companies do pay out the whazoo for licenses, and sometimes pay multiples licenses on one toy they make... While it's not in the millions, it adds up and for small private toy companies it is just as damaging financially to them in relative terms. Imagine if you had to pay for the Humvee title, or the Patton Family to use his likeness? And now imagine if those fees go into the 10's of thousands of dollars sometimes. And anything from noseart on a fighter to a pilot's name has to be paid out... Yes, this **** costs money too and Hasbro all-too-often hides behind the license fee IMO.
21st's also got to answer to people who demand accuracy, and are as frustrated as Hasbro can be with Lucasfilm wanting them to go back and revisit something again and again... Other comapnies deal with the same problems, if not worse problems since 21st doesn't have the production capabilities and such that Hasbro does, and yet they still put out a better product year in and year out despite their obstacles they face. To me, the X-Treme Detail and Elite Force 1:18 scale lines are worth every penny.
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Jesse, I have to totally agree with you on your post. I've been doing the 21st Century Toys since their D-Day line (around 2000-2001) and have kept up. If I could only collect one line, it would be this one. It shows to any collector what can be done with a line. I compare the Battle of the Bulge line to what I've purchased with Hasbro this year and there is no comparison. The Saga collection sucks when I compare the two.
I guess I need to make a commitment. I've always said that I should only buy those items from Hasbro that match my expectations and desires. In reality though, I don't know if that would matter as Hasbro would continue to do what they are doing, and many people will just continue to buy whatever they put out. Guess I am heading back that way since Hasbro is not matching what they did last year with ROTS.
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Throw behind them then that BBI "ups the anty" routinely, and 21st matches it... I think SW is a lax line because there's nothing to say "hey, you can do better, look at this...." to Hasbro. They figure they have a line that doesn't have to compete. I disagree with that personally, and feel they are competing for dollars at retail with any other boy's toys line in the aisle...
But with the 1:18 military lines they're in direct competition for your dollar. I buy both the major lines myself though. :)
The way these lines show what you can get for $5 to $8 though... I saw the new modern infantry paratroopers tonight. $8 you get a LOT of stuff on a SA figure, and a working parachute... And sculpting that Hasbro is really miles behind on. I usually applaud Hasbro's sculpting, they're not bad, but BBI shows how it's done IMO. 21st is more comparable to Hasbro though. BBI is closer to real than anything in this scale though, and this from someone who finds the Hasbro and 21st sculpts to be perfectly fine. BBI's just that much better.
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Chap Mei wins hands down when you consider the whole "more bang for your buck" theory.
You can get a vehicle the size of a Jedi Starfighter for less than $10 and individual figures for $1 each :D
Sure the articulation is lacking, but they are awsome fodder for customizing and a great, low priced alternative for little boys that just want to play with some toys :)
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Corps! Single figures for less than a dollar, and vehicles cost from $5-10. The vehicles, even the smallish $5 ones, are of fantastic quality.
(http://smalljoes.com/images_lanard/corps/vehicles/miniboat-boxed_l.jpg)
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McDonalds sells Cheesburgers for a buck, but that doesn't make them good cheeseburgers...
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For fast food they are.
The corps could do with a touch up paint job but they are good none the less.
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I have to go with LOTR as well. The scuplt, Price, Articulation etc. was very nice and with a very reasonable price tag. Dont know why Hasbro carges so much for SW.
LOTR also had a huge variety. Now that I think of it most of the great toy lines nowadays come from Toy Biz (LOTR ML). They are a good comapny, if only they had NECA's level of quality they would be a super company.
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McDonalds sells Cheesburgers for a buck, but that doesn't make them good cheeseburgers...
Hah, that was funny...
For my tastes I agree about the Corps being a letdown... Cheap in price but I feel you get what you paid for with those... Something comparable that I'd say is better overall is the Power Team Elite line... Pricing is comparable with Corps (dollarstore type knock-off action figures), and the quality just seems higher to me.
But at the same time...
I just got some of the new BBI 1:18 scale Elite Force... I stand by my intitial call on this topic. For $4.99 I got a super articulated WW2 Infantryman. The accessories included are fantastic... He has an M1 rifle, a bazooka, 3 projectiles, umpteen tiny handgrenades, a .45 sidearm, removable backpack and helmet, his torso pops off and you can remove his belt too...
The $5 pricetag is more than a Corps figure obviously... But like I said, you get what you paid for with Corps... $1 and you get a poor sculpt, some somewhat shoddy construction/design, paint applications are horrid really... BBI you have 100% realistic accuracy, articulation out the yingyang, and tons of little gear that's accurate in scale to the figure even. Paint applications and construction are above even Hasbro's best efforts really....
For best value, to me you're paying more but getting every cent worth... Corps you pay less but you also get substandard product with it ultimately, at least to me...
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The $5 pricetag is more than a Corps figure obviously... But like I said, you get what you paid for with Corps... $1 and you get a poor sculpt, some somewhat shoddy construction/design, paint applications are horrid really... BBI you have 100% realistic accuracy, articulation out the yingyang, and tons of little gear that's accurate in scale to the figure even. Paint applications and construction are above even Hasbro's best efforts really....
For best value, to me you're paying more but getting every cent worth... Corps you pay less but you also get substandard product with it ultimately, at least to me...
Well for a kid like me with little money, and SW as my main hobby, Corps! is great, as you get figures for $1 and vehicles for $5. And have you even bought any Corps! products? If not, you can't really say they're of crappy quality, they are actually pretty good IMO.
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Bought? No... GOtten in trades, yes...
But do I really have to buy it to look at its paint applications and cite that as being "bad"? Construction/durability and the materials quality I'd agree with, but I've had them in-hand and popped apart, and I stand by what I said... They're generally lower quality.
As I drew my comparison with Power-Team-Elite, which are similar in nature to the Corps line, I feel you get a better quality/durable toy out of the PTE line... Sculpt quality on PTE is slightly better, articulation is miles better though... Not to say that PTE is great by any means... Their accessories/vehicles/sets are what I find worth the purchase as Corps and PTE neither one are appealing custom figure bits for me... I'd take a pile of the guard towers or hedgehogs any day from PTE though. :)
But anyway, one need only look at the incredibly undetailed work in the sculpting and the paintjobs to make an initial judgement on corps figures I think, but yes I do have some in-hand and I do find they feel as cheap as their price implies them to be is all. Not my cup of tea at all.
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I got to thinking about this again while we were discussing the Marvel Titanium figure in the Marvel thread - that line in general (Star Wars or otherwise) seems so overpriced for what it is. Sure, they're metal and the packaging is pretty ornate, but it still seems pretty steep. With all the rising prices throughout collecting lately, what do you think are some of the best values at this point? The DC Superheroes line seems high at about $10 each, especially when Marvel Legends can range anywhere from $6-something to $8-something. When Legends can be bought for that price, I don't think that's too bad of a deal. Some Star Wars figures are a good value, depending on the quality and the price/sale/price cut. The more we get into the $7 and above range though, the figures really have to step it up in quality. It seems like one of the best values out there - although I don't have any at this point - is the newer Marvel Icons line. It sounds like everyone is pretty positive about them, they are 12" and well articulated, and tend to land in the $15 to $16 price range. Not many have the space for a lot of 12" stuff, but that's a lot of figure for $15.
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The price gouging in Star Wars is just out of hand... And it's due nothing more than to the fact the line is hot and they know they can milk it out at retail. These are $5.99 toys at best... $4.99 is more like it.
The best value to me is still BBI, 21st Century Toys... For $4.99 you get Super Articulated 1:18 figures with outstanding scupts, multiple accessories, in some cases multiple heads, multiple sets of posed and poseable arms... In vehicle terms you get 1:18 scaled aircraft comprised of so many individual parts it's insane, no screw-holes but instead put together with glue and such to minimize unsightly marks. Painted details, no "stickers". Usually includes a super articulated pack-in figure (sometimes the only way you can get that figure btw)... Some of the 1:18 armor vehicles are made with real die-cast metal and cost not a dime more or less than a plastic version (Tiger I and Sherman both got this treatment). They make also some RC versions of their 1:18 tanks that cost the SAME as the plain toy version...
Not to mention that 21st and BBI are both small privately held companies that don't have a fraction of the capital investment to put into product development and production that Hasbro does... It's insane. I've seen nothing that compares really where you get that high level of quality at a "fair" price.
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Chap Mei wins hands down when you consider the whole "more bang for your buck" theory.
My sentiments, too. The value isn't as apparent when they're sold through TRU (partnered with Animal Planet) or through K-Mart. But through Big Lots, you can pick up a wide assortment. (The Knights set sucks, though.)
Not a fan of the Corps. Several years ago I did pick up some Space Corps. The helmets looked like they could be used for Star Wars trooper customs.