Author Topic: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005  (Read 125002 times)

Offline Morgbug

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #795 on: October 15, 2005, 06:13 PM »
Again, I'm no fan at all of the capping.  I just wish we'd known ahead of time so we could discuss it like we discussed the scoring.  I would have been very vocal against it. 

The beauty of Yahoo pools is that most things are not set in stone.  I can still change the cap, though I don't think I can make it unlimited. 

Before I put it to a vote (we're only two weeks in) I'd like to outline some points as to why I'm in favor of a cap and I'll summarize Jason's comments as best I can as well.  Then we'll go for a vote on it but not until then. 

I do have some family commitment type things to do yet tonight, so I'll get around to posting the pros/cons (depends on your side which is which) later tonight. 
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Offline Rob

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #796 on: October 15, 2005, 06:38 PM »
If you can just plug in all of your backups every night that your starters aren't playing, then it takes away any skill involved in looking for favorable match-ups and knowing who to start on a given night versus a given opponent.

It definitely takes more skill this way - even though in Hockey that puts me at a bit of a disadvantage.

That's how it's supposed to be.  Why have backups then if you can't use them?  They aren't just there in case someone gets injured.  You try to pick guys later in the draft that can actually help your team, not sit there until someone is hurt. 

Again, this is an all points league so obviously it's a sprint to the finish line, out score the other guy each and everyday league.  What's the point in capping the positions?  I've never liked leagues like that.  It's just plain stupid.

My point was that you CAN use your back-ups, if you feel like on some given night they're playing against a team that makes them more likely to score a goal than the other guy.  I've got an extra goalie and I try to put the two that are most likely to win in on any given night.  Which is strategy.

Offline Holographic Elvis

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #797 on: October 15, 2005, 10:12 PM »
If you can just plug in all of your backups every night that your starters aren't playing, then it takes away any skill involved in looking for favorable match-ups and knowing who to start on a given night versus a given opponent.

It definitely takes more skill this way - even though in Hockey that puts me at a bit of a disadvantage.

That's how it's supposed to be.  Why have backups then if you can't use them?  They aren't just there in case someone gets injured.  You try to pick guys later in the draft that can actually help your team, not sit there until someone is hurt. 

Again, this is an all points league so obviously it's a sprint to the finish line, out score the other guy each and everyday league.  What's the point in capping the positions?  I've never liked leagues like that.  It's just plain stupid.

My point was that you CAN use your back-ups, if you feel like on some given night they're playing against a team that makes them more likely to score a goal than the other guy.  I've got an extra goalie and I try to put the two that are most likely to win in on any given night.  Which is strategy.

No, see what you are kinda getting at there is that you have 3 LWs and only 2 can start so you have to decide who to play.  I did that the other nite.  I had all my LWs playing and took out Frolov and put Zetterberg in.  Zetts scored a goal against the Kings so the strategy/decision paid off.  What I'm saying is that you should be able to utilize your entire team throughout the season, not just here and there.

Offline Rob

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #798 on: October 15, 2005, 10:49 PM »
In that case there is no real strategy beyond trying to draft well - that's not much fun.

Offline Morgbug

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #799 on: October 15, 2005, 11:05 PM »
Ok, first things first:  I agree with Jason that having that many backup players is pointless given the way this league is setup.  The league I run at work has 3 D, 1 G, 6 F and one bench spot (plus 1 IR).  There is a # of games cap in that league too, but given there's only one guy on the bench anyway, it doesn't make much difference.

With respect to the cap on the games, I don't think it should be a surprise.  Football doesn't allow for much difference.  The basketball pool last year was capped and worked fine.  I believe baseball was capped THIS year because there was an issue the previous season with no caps and pitching was a deciding factor (no, I don't want the details, it's just a comment).  Because other JD leagues have had caps is that a valid reason for this league to have a cap?  No, not really.

I think a bit more like Rob here; your backups are guys you have to make a call on for a given night.  For me I've actually got four LW because Havlat has been given RW/LW status by Yahoo (I didn't plan that, I swear and I hate it when guys get multi-poitioned) - Kovalchuk, Havlat, Stillman and Samsonov.  I DO think there's skill involved in making the call on who to start out of that group.  Kovy tied for the most goals in the last season; Havlat is on Ottawa, probably the top team in the league; Stillman's on a new team but was second in scoring on the Stanley Cup champs and Samsonov always scores lots on a team thats scoring lots this year.  Jason agreed with that, so there is some use for the bench players, just not as much as in a capless league.

I think the cap serves to equalize the teams.  For guys not paying attention, it allows them a chance to come back later in the year.  Not everyone has played on Yahoo before and there is a learning curve.  We're not doing this for anything more than bragging rights so I don't see it as a big deal personally.  It also allows guys with less internet access an equalizing factor.  Some guys have families, some guys have more work commitments, some guys may travel more without a computer.  It all adds up to a disadvantage in my eyes.  Maybe some of us aren't too concerned and question the commitment to the league and winning.  That's not an unreasonable thing for some people, for other it may be.  

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I wouldn't say strategic because again, the only "strategy" involved is basically not using up your games early and waiting for people to burn their games and then overtaking them at the end.
I disagree.  Were I Jeff, I'd be screaming as many guys into the lineup as I could at this point in the season.  The only guaranteed thing is that guys are going to cool off while other guys are going to heat up.  

Savard, Svatos, Liles, Boucher.  Who pegged them for the top 30 scorers?  Honestly?  Savard maybe, the others?  Uh, no.  Think they'll all be there in three months?  Nope, neither do I.  The point is you use your guys while they're hot.  

But honestly it really doesn't matter much to me, so we'll put it to a vote.  Cap or no cap?  I abstain so we have a winner, no one else can abstain.  

If we go with no cap, the max I can set is 100 games anyway, so it can be that or less, but I'd suggest we base it on the number 100 to make it worthwhile.  

I would also suggest that if we do go with "no cap" that we alter the waiver wire to prevent guys from cherry picking players endlessly.  Not everyone can check Yahoo every morning for the hot player so if we move to a cap, I'm suggesting a 3-4 waiver.  I haven't moved the waiver wire back to the 2 day limit yet.  This place is way too weekend lite, so not everyone will see the changes.  I'll do it during the week so if you've got the hots for someone, go for it.
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Offline Holographic Elvis

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #800 on: October 15, 2005, 11:15 PM »
This is where I have a problem with the cap:

I think the cap serves to equalize the teams.  For guys not paying attention, it allows them a chance to come back later in the year.

If you aren't gonna pay attention, why participate?  This goes back to what I said earlier.  It allows for someone who isn't paying attention to win the league by blitzing all his games at the end of the season.  It's really stupid. 


None of my other Yahoo leagues have a cap on games.  If we are doing a "sprint to the finish" point league, why cap the games?  Why have so many bench players?  Everyone here drafted talent until the last pick in an effort to have the best team, a team you could use, not just guys to fill in the blanks if someone got hurt or wasn't getting it done.  I took Ovechkin with my last pick knowing I'd have 3 quality LWs to use all year.  If I knew we had a cap on games, I may have just taken another goalie to fill out my roster. 

And I agree.  Make the waiver period longer to prevent any one team from adding and dumping guys at the end of the season in an effort to win.

I vote no cap. 
« Last Edit: October 15, 2005, 11:15 PM by Holographic Elvis »

Offline Famine

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #801 on: October 15, 2005, 11:16 PM »
I think the cap is fair. As Rob said, it's strategic playing, not just drafting well. I saw we keep the cap. Maybe we can set it higher, but a total removal seems to cheapen the game.

Kevin
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Offline Holographic Elvis

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #802 on: October 15, 2005, 11:41 PM »
I think the cap is fair. As Rob said, it's strategic playing, not just drafting well. I saw we keep the cap. Maybe we can set it higher, but a total removal seems to cheapen the game.

Kevin

Explain how it cheapens it.

Offline Famine

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #803 on: October 15, 2005, 11:49 PM »
Because we didn't draft under those rules.  When we drafted, the league settings page said 82 game cap per position.

Simple as that.

Kevin
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Offline Holographic Elvis

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #804 on: October 16, 2005, 12:07 AM »
Because we didn't draft under those rules.  When we drafted, the league settings page said 82 game cap per position.

Simple as that.

Kevin

And that cheapens the league how?  You have an extra guy at each position.  Would you have drafted that way if you truly knew there was a cap?  Why have bench players?  Why would you grab Eric Staal (a center) on waivers if you already have 3 centerman and a cap on games Kev? 

It seems pretty clear that not everyone even realizes that there is a cap and I really see no good reason for having one.  Again, why have so many players on our roster if in reality you really can't use them unless someone goes down?

I'm not trying to start a problem here cause honestly, the cap thing is pointless.  You can put a longer waiver peroid in place to prevent anyone from abusing the system.  There just shouldn't be a cap with the amount of players we have on our clubs.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2005, 12:15 AM by Holographic Elvis »

Offline Rob

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #805 on: October 16, 2005, 02:10 AM »
The cap needs to stay - as always, wholesale rule changes two weeks into the season aren't cool.  As always, these concerns should be brought up before the draft - or they need to be brought up before next season's draft.

I vote to leave it alone.

Offline Ryan

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #806 on: October 16, 2005, 02:13 AM »
I'm with Jason, there really is very little strategy involved with the cap set the way it is.

I vote for no cap.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2005, 02:13 AM by Ryan »
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Offline Rob

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #807 on: October 16, 2005, 02:23 AM »
How on earth would opening up the thing to unlimited games increase the amount of strategy involved?  It reduces the amount of strategy - you just plug everyone that you can in every night.
 
It also could screw a lot of stuff up - say you've got a bunch of Right Wingers, and none of them play on a given day - you're just out of luck - but if someone else's team just happens to have a favorable schedule where their Right Wingers don't have coinciding days off - advantage them.

It's far less strategic and more based on the whims of the schedules and the like.

Besides, as always - we didn't draft with this in mind.  I'd have drafted somewhat differently if we were doing this.  I might not have drafted to fill starting spots in the middle rounds.

This is a lot like when you wanted to add a flex position to the Football league last year part way into the season.  At first I didn't see what the big deal was, figuring - hey we all drafted the same so the rule change would affect everyone the same but it doesn't work that way - people might have drafted 3 top tier RB's with their first three picks that year knowing they could plug an extra one in.  It's like re-dealing a poker hand after the bets are on the table and if we were playing for money (thank God we're not) everyone would be furious at the mere suggestion of something like this.


« Last Edit: October 16, 2005, 02:41 AM by Rob »

Offline JesseVader08

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #808 on: October 16, 2005, 02:59 AM »
In my mind, it ain't broke, so no need to fix it.  I vote keep the cap.

Offline JesseVader08

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Re: JD Fantasy Hockey 2005 - League is Live!!
« Reply #809 on: October 16, 2005, 01:17 PM »
Congrats to Mikey for a 13 point jump last night.  That's got to be a record so far for a single night.